Are Ray-Ban Sunglasses a Scam!?

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  • Опубликовано: 3 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 137

  • @ShadeReview
    @ShadeReview  4 года назад +15

    Save up to 51% off a pair of Ray Bans here:
    Ray-Ban Sunglasses here:
    Jomashop- ​bit.ly/JomaRayBan​
    For free shipping on Jomashop
    Use Code: FASTSHIP
    Amazon- amzn.to/2IWAmt0

    • @sebastiandiego8539
      @sebastiandiego8539 4 года назад +2

      I always use JomaShop NEVER PAY FULL PRICE FOR cheep raybans they are worth $90 but not $200

    • @robertaung6373
      @robertaung6373 4 года назад +1

      Just ordered an Aviator green flash lens Jomashop. Lets see what will come. Thanks for sharing for now.

    • @shoaibshabbir8573
      @shoaibshabbir8573 3 года назад

      @@robertaung6373 what happened to your order ?
      Is it genuine ?

    • @conorleroy2362
      @conorleroy2362 3 года назад

      @Preston Finley definitely, have been watching on instaflixxer for since december myself =)

  • @Lololol45
    @Lololol45 4 года назад +16

    EVERYTHING Jomashop sells is 100% legit! I have purchased a few Ray Ban’s, Oliver Peoples and Oakleys and they always check out when I compare them to the overpriced ones at the department store! When buying from amazon always make sure it is shipped and sold from amazon directly, many independent sellers do slip through the cracks and offer fakes!!!!

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +2

      Yes Jomashop is 100% legit!
      Amazon had a few third party sellers back in the day but those got shut down really fast. Like you said make sure the seller is amazon or make sure they have over 1,000 five star reviews and you will be good to go

  • @racharina
    @racharina Год назад +1

    Thanks for Jomashop info! I was literally looking this morning into Nordstrom & Macy's till I found this info... Way less! Yesss!

  • @ashleyluciel1047
    @ashleyluciel1047 4 года назад +4

    i just got my ray-ban 2 days ago and my grandma accidently slightly sit on the glasses and it completely bend out. i can see right through the lenses that it was not parallel. i bought it for 180 dollar and confirmed by the seller that this glasses was original. was the glasses really this fragile? the seller said they had 1 year warranty so can i change it back or no? I'm devastated someone help

  • @dustygibbs7739
    @dustygibbs7739 Год назад +1

    I wouldn't buy a $200 pair of sunglasses with I can get for $15 to$20 at a gas station which look the exact same

  • @deusvultpictures6550
    @deusvultpictures6550 4 года назад +4

    I have a pair of Ray Ban P gold aviators. The best tip is to shop around, sunglasses-shop or misterspex are great if you're in the UK or Europe.

  • @curlyhairdudeify
    @curlyhairdudeify Год назад +1

    My Ray Ban Cats 5000 and my Ray Ban classic aviators are 10 years old. I did buy them them for ~$100.00 dollars.
    Are they worth it? Yes. They have outlasted all else I have owned.
    I just need to replace the temple tips, and nose pads on the regular aviators.

  • @goldendawn7
    @goldendawn7 4 года назад +6

    Good comparison on the sub, i was thinking that immediately before you brought it up. They are overpriced in the way ALL luxury and semi luxury goods are overpriced. I have the ray ban aviators, bought them at near retail. They feel like money, I never feel ripped off when I remember what i paid for them. They're iconic, like a baracuta Harrington or lacoste polo shirt, or a 65 mustang. Price/value proposition is in the wallet of the buyer, and that said JESUS DUDE THATS YOUR COLLECTION???? At first i thought you were standing in a boutique, my jaw literally dropped when you said 'Over here to my personal collection'. love you have to have store displays to house them. My collection is a fledgling fraction of this and already wearing on my girls nerves lol. At least she doesn't complain about the watches 🤷‍♂️. Great video as always!

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +3

      You are so very right they are icons and even tho you will pay a lot for them you are playing for that history and iconic status! And yes that's just some of my collection I actually have a bunch more in boxes that I don't have room for in the display cabinets. I also have no idea why my wife lets me keep them all, but to be fair she barrows a lot of them haha

    • @valcrist7428
      @valcrist7428 2 года назад

      I would think if you PLAN to collect Sunglasses.. when you have a decent pay.. you can easily buy 4-10 expensive Sunglasses per year.. if that is your passion.. for the normies.. it's sufficient to buy 1 nice/expensive Sun Glasss every 5-10 years..

  • @harleyfillmore5101
    @harleyfillmore5101 4 года назад +6

    WOW Thanks for the video I really liked it.
    I CAN NOT BELIEVE ALL THE SUNGLASSES YOU HAVE

  • @conbro0985
    @conbro0985 4 года назад +9

    I didn’t know his collection was that big😂 wow

  • @esccools
    @esccools 3 года назад +2

    Flimsy Ray Bans feel like one use away from coming apart!

  • @jamesturner4683
    @jamesturner4683 4 года назад +4

    I think the test of whether the glasses are fairly priced is also linked to how much they cost to manufacture. How much of the Ray Ban price is made up in profit margin, manufacturing cost, marketing cost etc? If profit margin is a large part, then I'd argue the consumer is getting a rough deal. Are there generic type glasses which are the same quality/look of Ray Ban but cost significantly less because they don't have the brand?

    • @pinnacledivingco
      @pinnacledivingco Год назад

      This. 100% this. This is exactly the argument that should have been made herein this video. It doesn't matter one bit what others in the market are charging, because they will all charge what the market demands. The truest litmus as to whether or not a brand is a scam or not, is to make public exactly what it costs the company to bring the product to the market, versus what they charge. Last I checked, Ray Bands typically cost less than $30 to produce. Do the math from there.

  • @RaphialLee
    @RaphialLee 2 месяца назад

    Why do those eye doctors try to advertise for you to get non mainbrand glasses all of the time if those gerneric brands charge the same price and build from the same quality?

  • @joyperez156
    @joyperez156 3 года назад +2

    Hi, how do you decide on what sunglasses to wear?
    Like, do you have specific model for driving, for simple run to the market, on a get away etc...

  • @WyvernX_
    @WyvernX_ 4 года назад +2

    Jomashop.com>
    Definitely don't think ray ban are worth buying at full retail price. Thats a sick collection tho, still looking forward to you making a full video on them shadebrah!

  • @ZoomStranger
    @ZoomStranger 3 года назад +1

    recently got a pair of RB Chromances - disappointed; too delicate, too blurry especially when looking at screens.

  • @boberjonson8590
    @boberjonson8590 4 года назад +15

    OMG SO MANY SUNGLASSES
    That has to be what around $30,000 worth of sunglasses that you have there?
    Is that your office do you also sell them?

    • @WhatIsThis93737
      @WhatIsThis93737 4 года назад +4

      I've always wondered if he sells glasses. Cause he owns alot of glasses

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +16

      I actually am not a seller just a sunglass fan... and somehow my wife actually lets me keep them all 😂👍🏼

    • @storozhevadaria3040
      @storozhevadaria3040 4 года назад +1

      @@WhatIsThis93737 He is not a seller just a horder man share the wealth next time

  • @jeffu.8053
    @jeffu.8053 4 года назад +3

    I bought a pair of name brand sunglasses from Jomashop last year for over 40% off retail. They sell many brands and styles but how are they able to offer such low prices?

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +1

      They don’t come with a warranty! They are gray market which is 100% legal but ya no warranty. They also sell Omega watches for about 40% off retail

    • @jeffu.8053
      @jeffu.8053 4 года назад +1

      Shade Review Thanks for the reply. I knew there was a catch, especially since the model I bought was still being sold on the manufacturer's website for the retail price.

    • @TbonesTech
      @TbonesTech 4 года назад

      Jeff U. No problem thanks for watching!

  • @esccools
    @esccools 3 года назад +3

    Yes Ray Ban is way over priced! Buy Randolph or AO instead!

  • @beiderbeck81
    @beiderbeck81 4 года назад +27

    u should make collection videos, by brand as you have so many.

    • @TbonesTech
      @TbonesTech 4 года назад +6

      Beiderbeck great idea! 🤔

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  2 года назад

      I actually have made a few! On Persol Oliver Peoples and Randolph

  • @brettbianchi6706
    @brettbianchi6706 2 года назад +1

    I'm new to the high end sunglasses, looking to get my first pair of Ray-Ban's (between the Aviator and the Caravan). I'm very curious as to why you don't recommend shopping at Sunglass Hut? I have one about an hour from me and i heard you say not to buy from them and I'm just wondering why you say that. Thanks!

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  2 года назад +1

      Hey Brett thanks for watching! I recommend our own website where everything we sell is 100% authentic and we ship free the same day that you place your order! shadereviewstore.com/collections/ray-ban

    • @brettbianchi6706
      @brettbianchi6706 2 года назад +1

      @@ShadeReview Awesome! I'll have to check it out. I assume Sunglass Hut would be a good place to try on the frames first?

    • @robertlouisebaker-hyde1267
      @robertlouisebaker-hyde1267 2 года назад

      @@ShadeReview 100% authentic, so is Sunglass Hut.

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  2 года назад

      @@brettbianchi6706 Yes sunglass hut is also 100% authentic and owned buy the same company that owns ray ban

  • @lonelyhearts4216
    @lonelyhearts4216 4 года назад +1

    Hi there i'm in the market for a pair of Wayfarer's and i was wondering based on your expertise which pair would you recommend or is better? the Original Wayfarer or the Wayfarer Ease from my knowledge i know the Ease is just the original with NO Tilt but i was wondering if that took away from the classic look of the wayfarer as this is my 1st pair of Ray-Ban Wayfarers should i stick with the classic Tilt or should i modernize myself? it would be deeply appreciated if you replied thanks.

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +2

      You can’t go wrong with the classic originals. But if you wanted a more modern version definitely get the ease! Ether way they both are great for 2020 personally I would choose the Ease

    • @lonelyhearts4216
      @lonelyhearts4216 4 года назад +1

      Shade Review thanks a lot you just reassured what my gut was telling me😎

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +1

      Awesome man enjoy!

  • @hamiltons.2388
    @hamiltons.2388 4 года назад +2

    I watched your video on the best polarized sunglasses for 2020, but do you have a top 3 for Sunglass brands? I'm considering Maui Jims primarily right now.

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад

      Oh man so hard to only have a top 3 But right now I would say Randolph, Persol, and Maui Jim.

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад

      What pair of Mauis are you looking at?

    • @hamiltons.2388
      @hamiltons.2388 4 года назад

      @@ShadeReview I was looking at the Following Seas style. Something similar to the Randolph Cobalt Aviators. I have a slimmer face, and I'm used to the SunGod Renegade style (had a pair of Suncloud Ramblers before, which broke).

    • @hamiltons.2388
      @hamiltons.2388 4 года назад

      @@ShadeReview I'll be purchasing next week with a Canadian budget around $300. So, wanted advice about what the best to look for would be from the expert. 🤙

    • @goldendawn7
      @goldendawn7 4 года назад

      Mauis are killer. So worth the price

  • @duncandistortion
    @duncandistortion 4 года назад +1

    Genuine ray bans use cheap & flimsy screws to hold them together, i've had to replace a lot over the years with larger screws from prescription glasses.

    • @TheJuan4you
      @TheJuan4you 3 года назад

      I've had my New Wayfarers for about 2 or 3 years, I've never had a problem with their construction at all. And I've put them through all hell every time I fell off my board they flew off my face and slid and smacked the concrete just like me. Everytime that happened I picked them up with nothing but a new scratch on them. Idk what your buying but the Ray-Bans I've owned are damn near indestructible.

    • @pistachiosandpopcorn7146
      @pistachiosandpopcorn7146 3 года назад +1

      @@TheJuan4you I've had my first pair for over a year and I haven't put them through hell BUT they still look like new. And just for anyone that wonders..mine came straight from the website.

    • @pistachiosandpopcorn7146
      @pistachiosandpopcorn7146 3 года назад +1

      @@TheJuan4you BUT my case on the other hand is about broke.

  • @evannussbaum1863
    @evannussbaum1863 4 года назад +2

    Did you use the “way back machine” to see what the Rayban prices were

  • @mojtabata288
    @mojtabata288 4 года назад +2

    Pretty useful video dude, thanks for the effort👍

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад

      No problem thanks for watching!

  • @erichood3169
    @erichood3169 3 года назад +2

    Your room looks like lense crafters.

  • @joelopic
    @joelopic 2 года назад

    Beautiful work again.
    Stay away from " the sunglass hut" . Priceless

  • @jdwhodey
    @jdwhodey 4 года назад +3

    With a collection of bad ass shades like that, I don't know if I'd want anyone else giving me a review on shades but you.
    I do have one question though. Is it a hard choice every single day on which ones you're going to wear that day?

    • @TbonesTech
      @TbonesTech 2 года назад +1

      It’s extremely hard to pick a pair to where haha!
      Thanks for the kind words!

  • @rainbow20112011
    @rainbow20112011 2 года назад

    Are those sunglasses, including the Ray-Ban sunglasses, that cost around $150...Are they prescription sunglasses?

  • @yamasail
    @yamasail 11 месяцев назад

    I only buy Ray-Bans when they're having steep sales.

  • @firasal-jubouri1312
    @firasal-jubouri1312 4 года назад +3

    Nice collection, and a great video.

  • @andyrod27
    @andyrod27 4 года назад

    Hello! My aunt move out and she found a pair of RAY BAN and she game them to me, apparently they are an Outdoorsman II model, but how can I tell if they are original? She was living in that house around 25 years ago!

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +2

      if they are that old they are definitely real!

    • @dolemitetcs8598
      @dolemitetcs8598 4 года назад +1

      There should be a tiny BL logo etched in the corner of the lens

    • @andyrod27
      @andyrod27 4 года назад

      Travis Simpson well they have a RB in one of the corners, but I don’t see a BL... just a B&L RAY-BAN U.S.A. at the top of the lenses and they have a “Main in USA” at the end of the right leg and in the left leg at the end a “60”

    • @dolemitetcs8598
      @dolemitetcs8598 4 года назад +1

      @@andyrod27 An RB laser-etched into the corner of the lens is also Accurate. I was just thinking the BL might be there if it's really old.

  • @israelromero285
    @israelromero285 3 года назад

    Dillard's Ray Ban authentic?

  • @deltanovember1672
    @deltanovember1672 4 года назад +7

    Luxottica have kept prices artificially high for years now. They are gangsters, look at the way they acquired Oakley.

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +5

      What they did to Oakley was just a same... and most of there stuff is made in china

    • @pistachiosandpopcorn7146
      @pistachiosandpopcorn7146 4 года назад +1

      Anyone that charges over 100 for a pair of sunglasses is a white collar thug. The other brands are no better than lux. So it's either accept it or not. Don't try to defend one and attack another..they are all ripping us off period.

    • @deltanovember1672
      @deltanovember1672 4 года назад +1

      Pistachios and Popcorn Who’s defending them?

    • @pistachiosandpopcorn7146
      @pistachiosandpopcorn7146 4 года назад +1

      @@deltanovember1672 I mean defending luxxotica, maui Jim, William painter, Oakley old owners, costa old owners, any of them that are overpriced. To me they are all gangsters. I mean like Diff glasses are not that expensive BUT I don't know how much they cost..but if they are good glasses..then MAYBE you could defend them.

    • @deltanovember1672
      @deltanovember1672 4 года назад +1

      Pistachios and Popcorn In terms of market value, they’re worth what someone will pay for them. Ray Ban et al seem to have no problem shifting stock so more fool us for paying their exorbitant prices.

  • @JohnDoe-dt3by
    @JohnDoe-dt3by 4 года назад +1

    The value goes up.

  • @lostfool
    @lostfool 4 года назад +4

    Don't listen do this dude. Buy them from Ray-Ban or Sunglass Hut. Sunglass Hut handles the warranty directly. Also Sunglass Hut hands out coupons like candy. $20-50-75 off. Amazon Ray-Bans are often fulfilled by Luxottica anyway so you don't get a price break and for warranty service you will have to send back to factory instead of just walking into a Sunglass Hut.

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +6

      Luxotticas warranty is trashhhhhh anyone who as ever dealt with there customer service knows this haha My friend was once on hold for ray ban for 2 hours because his shity Ray-Ban case fell apart 3 months after buying a pair and SH told him they couldn’t do anything for him. Also “don’t listen to this guy” as you can see I clearly own hundreds of pairs of sunglasses so I can promise you I know the right place to buy them from haha

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +4

      Oh and BTW they said they would send him an email where he could fill out a form and get his replacement case. Well they never sent him the email and he was not about to go on hold for 2 hours again. So he called me up and told me the story and I said don’t worry about it and gave him 3 ray ban cases that I had. Black Tan and Gray. Because again I have hundreds of the cases lol

    • @lostfool
      @lostfool 4 года назад

      Yeah their warranty doesn't cover abuse like any warranty. As far as cases go those are not warrantied and you can order new cases from their repair sight. You get it in about a week. Super simple.

    • @offensivecomment5477
      @offensivecomment5477 4 года назад +4

      @@lostfool You clearly work for sunglasses hut. So please show me how I can get a pair of Ray Ban Original Aviators with Green Classic G-15 62mm lenses for $74.99 because that is what Jomashop has them for. These $75 off coupons that you say are "handed out like candy" do not exist. and if they do its like $75 off $350+. But I want to believe you man so please send me your link or code for me to get a pair of classic green Ray Ban Avaitors for $75 or less from the sunglass hut. I eagerly await your response!
      I bet the best you could find is a $25 off $150 so that would bring them to $125 so for an extra $25 I could get 2 pairs from Jomashop and screw the warranty because I would have a whole other pair sitting in my closet if anything happens. oh and also Jomashop dose not charge tax :)

  • @phillippugh2161
    @phillippugh2161 4 года назад

    Thanks for the tips

  • @0rgazman
    @0rgazman 4 года назад

    The best glasses are those worn by soldiers.
    The aviator, the general, the colonel, the marshal, etc. etc, they are no longer military glasses

  • @vybtom1
    @vybtom1 4 года назад +2

    I can see some Spyderco's in your collection. Are you also a knife guy?

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +3

      Absolutely haha

    • @vybtom1
      @vybtom1 4 года назад +1

      @@ShadeReview GREAT!! I always like to meet another knife enthusiasts.😁👍🔪

  • @Manwichman
    @Manwichman 3 года назад +2

    I got a pair from wakglass on Etsy and absolutely zero difference, a third cost. Italy branded from Malaysia haha... Perfect replicas our they might even be real. They've got all the tells of fakes smoothed out

  • @snuggleskunk4711
    @snuggleskunk4711 2 года назад +1

    Amazon won't sell you counterfeit sunglasses but Amazon's sellers will!👍😎

    • @sarizonana
      @sarizonana 2 года назад

      Does Amazon has an official rayban stotre ?
      I wouldn’t be that surprised, they have an official Apple Store and Nesspresso but didn’t know they had a rayban oficial store too

  • @ChromeMan04
    @ChromeMan04 3 года назад +2

    All sunglasses are overpriced

  • @souravmitra7172
    @souravmitra7172 3 года назад

    Ray Bans are too much expesive. I purchased one pair for rs 10090 . But really found unworthy of the price.

  • @papricep6248
    @papricep6248 3 года назад +1

    The market price for a Rolex Submariner is 3 times the MSRP.

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  3 года назад +3

      Eh right now there about $14,000 and retail prices is $8,500 I believe for s stainless steel sub

  • @johnathanphillips683
    @johnathanphillips683 Год назад

    No dude, they were overpriced at 97 / they are over priced at 154 or whatever. complete garbage. Those materials cost lest than $5.00.

  • @mattbujold4069
    @mattbujold4069 4 года назад +2

    Another good video. Glad I found you. Can tell you love sun glasses.

  • @juanlicera
    @juanlicera 3 года назад

    Try upper scale sunglasses like LV.... that´s expensive.

  • @ALIENdrifter66
    @ALIENdrifter66 2 года назад

    Of course they're overrated, all Luxotica products are, even the owners of the company say it, they sell "luxury" and luxury is expensive. If they were cheaper they wouldn't sell as many

  • @kazp217
    @kazp217 4 года назад +1

    Good to see jomashop mentioned. Stubbled upon the Site last year and want to sure how legit it was.

  • @namasivayanpillainarayanap7710
    @namasivayanpillainarayanap7710 4 года назад

    I'm from India, each ray ban glasses are true value 4 money and there are enough selection in various models and affordable prices that suits any pockets down wards to top style makers, that maens permanent style.First shooter aviator i brought from yetheem opticals abudhabi in 95 july and 2nd 96 december... was aviator Out doors man.leather is my permanent partner still now. After i brought my 3rd avatior classic from Kuwait in '97 and 4th was from Doha at '99 april. 'All that she wants.... like the ace of base song... but 'I want it that way .... is my outdoors man given me more satisfaction from '96 december. But i hope to own a wayfarer classic2I40.. 50mm that my son who is working in Doha, is delayed by covid season would bring soon. ThanX a lot Ray Ban users and Ray ban Luxottica. Italy.

  • @jorgegranados4547
    @jorgegranados4547 Год назад +3

    “RayBan is overpriced!” -guy who is used to gas station sunglasses and knows nothing of the market.
    “RayBan is actually bad!” -guy who whips out $400 for every pair / guy who has convinced himself his shitty cheap brand is the best.
    “Sure man, RayBan is perfectly fine and they look cool, just try to get them at a discount” -Chad

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  Год назад

      Just try and get them at a discount on ShadeReviewStore.com 😎

  • @vashsant9749
    @vashsant9749 3 года назад

    Paid $55 for my Caravans in 91. 😔

  • @Steviewonderwhy
    @Steviewonderwhy 4 года назад

    Is Oakley better sunglasses

  • @EagleTrue
    @EagleTrue 2 года назад +1

    Made in Italy is way better the made in USA regarding sunglasses

  • @bigjerries
    @bigjerries 4 года назад +3

    Do a collection review

  • @BayanoS
    @BayanoS 4 года назад

    You can sometimes find fake rayban in amazon so what u said not 100% true

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +1

      Luxottica wants to you think that. But it’s just simply isn’t the case. Unless you buy from a seller with 10 feedback or something like that. But buy from amazon and make sure amazon is the seller

    • @tyyg9469
      @tyyg9469 2 месяца назад

      @@ShadeReviewdoesn’t Amazon mix their stock with other sellers? Called comingling. So you still could get fakes

  • @razon6036
    @razon6036 4 года назад +1

    how about oakley frogskin?

  • @jadyassine8484
    @jadyassine8484 4 года назад

    Watched this video, went to Jomashop.com, purchased a pair of RB2132 902/58, just received them: very happy with my purchase.

  • @sarugard9115
    @sarugard9115 Год назад

    every brand is overpriced

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  Год назад

      There is actually a lot of work that goes into manufacturing a pair of sunglasses. And there it’s plenty of competition in the space

  • @simonassouline45
    @simonassouline45 3 года назад

    Your percentage ratios from 2010 to 2020 prices ratio increases are completely wrong! 35-36 percent increases is the true number, not 50 percent! Learn mathematics, you overinflated the Ratios!

  • @Obeijin
    @Obeijin 3 года назад

    Just over priced ...

  • @okeyakono5087
    @okeyakono5087 7 месяцев назад

    Eat an is overrated and overpriced

  • @Chicagoclee
    @Chicagoclee 3 года назад

    Boy you talk fast

  • @jerryellis4518
    @jerryellis4518 4 года назад

    Good god, the voice 😭

  • @davidmendoza5099
    @davidmendoza5099 4 года назад

    Why in the world would you make a video about rayban and talk about a ford and other sunglasses brands 🤦🏻‍♂️

  • @jmothshed
    @jmothshed 4 года назад

    Poopoopeepee

    • @ShadeReview
      @ShadeReview  4 года назад +1

      Inflation robs the dollars buying power chasing the prices to increase who no increase in quality