Why Sex Differences Matter - Helen Joyce | Maiden Mother Matriarch 3
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- Helen Joyce is a journalist, author, and the director of advocacy at Sex Matters. Her 2021 book Trans: Gender Identity and the New Battle for Women's Rights was an international bestseller. We spoke about the importance of sex differences in law and policy, the origins of gender identity ideology, whether or not gender critical feminists have ‘won’ in the UK, and the relationship between feminism and the Left. Helen’s newsletter is available at thehelenjoyce.com.
0:00 Intro
1:42 Has the gender critical side ‘won’?
8:55 Is feminism reality denying?
14:24 Transgenderism and the medical industrial complex
19:15 The effect of the NHS on limiting the spread of transgenderism in the UK
24:20 Would better sex reassignment medical technology make people happier?
29:23 The data on suicide and gender dysphoria
32:44 The role of autogynephilia
38:44 “These men require the rest of us not to talk about what’s going on”
40:23 The relationship between gender non-conformity in children and same sex attraction
46:20 Why our understanding of the science of sexuality has gone backwards
48:43 Why autogynephilic men are at the forefront of trans activism
51:46 The role of the internet in creating new kinds of gender dysphoria
59:06 What do people really mean when they talk about ‘patriarchy’?
1:05:02 Should feminists work with the Right?
1:09:50 The marginalisation of mothers in contemporary feminism
Trans by Helen Joyce is available to buy here: amzn.to/3Ky44FK
The Case Against the Sexual Revolution by Louise Perry is available to buy here: amzn.to/3xLHJNd
Other books mentioned in the show: Females by Andrea Long Chu
The MMM podcast can also be found on Apple, Spotify, and all other streaming platforms:
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#LouisePerry #HelenJoyce #MaidenMotherMatriarch
Very few things make me proud to be British these days, but being a citizen of TERF Island is one of them.
Yes, I'm not a woman but I quite like the fact we're called "TERF Island", leading the fight back against gender ideology.
Canadian Flavor Envy 😅
Just became a full time citizen of TERF island. Just read Helen’s book and begged my 25 yr old daughter to read it too.
I really enjoy listening to Helen as she comes across as one of the only sober voices on this issue.
I can agree mostly with what both women say about the subject. Mostly, unfortunately because they both suffer from what we all accuse the radical left of being, basically "intersectionalist", if that can be a word. they are interjecting separate causes into the fight.
The conversation between the two ladies got very silly indeed when Louise suggested that feminist or feminism movement has always come from conservatives or right wing or whatever the current ridiculous term is.
It was obvious also, that Helen didn't support that idea, probably because she is older, and actually knows something about history.
Louise probably has an audience and good luck to her. They both are clearly puritanical, fighting a separate cause called, "End weird sex and online pornography", coinciding with "sissy porn" creates trans people", based on anecdotal evidence.
People can say whatever they like, show us real evidence. Fighting online porn and pornography in all its forms is perhaps the most childish, naively idiotic concept ever imaginable. By the end of the video it was like listening to two nuns, talking about how sex belongs in missionary positions, between a man and women in a long term marriage or relationship. Good luck ladies!
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ROTHERHAM PRIDE
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Having had a mastectomy for breast cancer I can tell you that it does indeed come with many complications and side effects. I can’t even imagine the devastating consequences of something like phaloplasty😢. Also I have heard trans activists asking to prioritise mastectomies for them as more important than breast cancer patients. It is just awful all of this. Also living with a single mastectomy does not make me half man! 🤪
❤️❤️
More important than breast cancer patients? Anyone who says that is not connected with reality
@Lindy T I’m sorry you’re going through that. Some women have no issues. I have some nerve damage and also shoulder pain. The scar is well healed but very tender and sore a year on. Also I have developed a little lymphoedema, which is probably more of a result of my lymph node clearance, though it can happen with just mastectomy surgery. Wishing you well on your journey. 🙏💙🙏
Phalloplasty is nothing short of ghoulish butchery. I won't go into detail, just ... people, if you're squeamish, don't look it up.
Nothing can EVER be more important than trans stuff. NOT. EVER. No exceptions.
Helen Joyce is simply a woman who is needed at this time, for her wonderful articulate and thoughtful way she explains and reads this ideology. Every woman and man would benefit hugely from this podcast, irrelevant of views as it gives a informed and evidence unbiased view of women and our needs.
Thank you x
we are very lucky that those who speak up for us are so eloquent
As a gay man fascinated by this topic, I simply can’t get enough of her. I learn something new and gain new perspectives every time I watch one of her interviews/talks. Everything she says is spot-on.
she is amazing
@@EthententI'm a straight male. I think we're all drawn to the clarity of Helen Joyce's words in this insane world. I only woke up to this insanity a few days ago.
@@nikobellic570 A few days ago? Welcome to the rabbit hole. This subject takes you everywhere...never-ending thread.
Helen's point about "variant masculinity" and "variant femininity" is just brilliant. This entire conversation is incredibly interesting. Thank you both. :)
It's definitely resonating with me with regards to the hsts vs. AGP distinction, because I must say even with the hsts, e.g. Blaire White, when Blaire is talking/gesturing etc., it does not remind me of a woman at all and I always found that difficult to make sense of. Blaire is much more like a hyper-"effeminate" same-s* attracted male, who though super super hyper-effeminate, is still nothing like any woman I know. The energy is very different.
This is such a useful way to think about it. Even the hsts do not "feel" like women, which I know is hurtful to some to say. They feel to me obviously nothing NOTHING like the AGP energy. But it is still a male expression of self, not a woman.
When Helen made that point about so-called "sissy" highly gender-stereotype non-conforming little boys - and she says these little boys swishing about and flamboyant are NOT like little girls, that absolutely clicked for me. It's so true. They are still, of course, MALE, they are boys not girls, and it is still a kind of male-ness they are exhibiting, it is just not the common form of masculinity...
And ditto for same-s* attracted females. As girls, the tomboy is NOT a boy. She is still exhibiting a self that is female, not male. It is just a less-common, less socially-rewarded part of the range of how females express 'self'.
Ugh all this terminology and trying to grapple with the right words to articulate things, it's a language/concept nightmare.
@@L_Martin Effeminate men are not at all like women .
Blaire White does look like a woman, but does not act like a woman.
@@L_Martin very well articulated. Thank you.
@@L_Martin "less socially rewarded" is such a key term -- you see it and feel that, yet ppl act like it doesn't exist and as if they do not enforce it. On the surface, it makes becoming the "opposite gender" easier than bucking the system.
@@tablescissors Yeah, I'd even say it's not just "not rewarded", it's actively PUNISHED. Which kids get bullied? Definitely the GNC ones.
Women have to thread the needle of being just the "right" kind of feminine. If you go too far in one direction you're called stupid and a hoe. If you don't take care of your appearance or you're fat, you get insults of a different kind.
For the males, being sissy is the worst thing you can be. That's definitely the message they're still given, even today in the UK it's obvious that sissy boys / effeminate men have to really work put the work in to cultivate attractive personality traits or abilities because if they don't they're treated as worst than worthless. Males who are naturally more stereotypically masculine don't get punished, ditto for females - and obviously looking attractive helps enormously.
I think both males and females get punished for being GNC, but in different ways. I agree with you totally - easier to hop the fence, less heartache (or so it seems to kids especially).
I could listen to these two articulate women all day long. So refreshing and stimulating!
THANK YOU. "Variant masculinity" and "variant femininity". I completely agree that we have gone backward in accepting human beings as they are. I appreciate your super-sensible voices.
For me nothing has highlighted more clearly how badly women are disregarded, diminished, insulted and undermined by our establishment than the ease with which women rights have been sidelined by the trans lobby. Like Helen I am shocked at how fragile women's rights have proved to be.
Me too. I'm a man, and in my younger days I actually felt as if feminism was just this toxic, bourgeois victim stance when hearing about silly things like "mansplaining", "manspreading" etc. Fast forward and here we are. Women's spaces invaded, sports destroyed, male rapists getting transferred to female prisons, teen girls body parts taken off...
It's so disheartening.
Ohh feminism was great as long as it was hurting boys and men 😂😂
@@00Daddy what do you mean hurting men and boys. Men and boys needed to change as much as women did but too many of them wanted to maintain an undeserved superior status. Grow up and learn something for the sake of young boys.
Genuine questions. What specific rights do you feel like women have lost? and how has it affected your life?
@@jl789nz The right to privacy, dignity and safe women's only spaces. And also the right to compete in sports on fair grounds.
Helen Joyce is the Voice of Reason, Period!
No Phobic Anything
I created a special RUclips playlist “outstanding” because of Helen Joyce and she hasn’t failed yet!
Love the description of variant femininity and variant masculinity. As a lesbian who fancies masculine women I've had to explain to multiple people why I date manly women if I like females. Because there's an undeniable and irresistible femaleness to masculine women that is nothing like men have.
I think people pretend to be thick when it comes to some things. It’s a way of making lesbians have to explain themselves when it’s blinking obvious.
That was very insightful. Appreciate your viewpoint as a pansexual myself.
Too right! Hurrah for the butch female 🎉
I have always found androgynous people sexy, so do many, but I don't find pretenders interesting...that is no longer the blending of energies, that is one thing fully posing as another.
@@jirenthegray2904 *bisexual
Two really important people having a really important discussion - thank you!
As a guy I've just fell down the culture war rabbit hole and Helen Joyce just crushes it!
So good to hear reality discussed without the blinding fog of ideology. Keep the content coming. Thank you
Helen is against bodily autonomy.
In years to come our descendants will wonder how anyone could believe being in the wrong body was a possibility and the horrific scandal of mutilating children and young adults that followed.
I have heard people comparing it to lobotomy. I think the comparism fits.
I love Helen fiercely. One of my biggest heroes! But I’m so thrilled to have discovered this channel! Brilliant!
Thank you. As someone who was previously rad fem leaning, I've tried getting across the points about the similarity between gender ideology and rad fem ideology in terms of having trouble facing reality. To no avail. So many RF don't wanna hear it. But It's time to stop pretending biology doesn't largely influence the differences between men and women and, as women, we get informed because we are the ones who suffer most for being out of the loop.
Agreed! And it's lonely, as a millennial I'll just say, the older GC women are very resistant to acknowledging how much biology shapes females deeply (in terms of our preferences, our personalities, etc.), and the young "intersectional feminists" are all naturally brain-poisoned on gender identity theory where biology means nothing and it's all just social constructs and there is nothing stable and everything that looks stable is just an illusion.
It's very tricky though to walk that line and say "Biology, if you are male or female, matters SO MUCH and is so fundamental - but that does not mean women belong in the kitchen". It's like I feel there is nowhere for feminism to go after acknowledging how much biology dictates the female experience (beyond just "we bear the children" and "society expects x of us", but actually owning up to this thing of agreeableness and all the rest of it)
I think we are all terrified of the mentality of men like Matt Walsh, and other religious ideologies, pouncing on this and trying to force women and men back into rigid roles, and calling a woman dysfunctional/defective or something if her life doesn't revolve around having kids and housekeeping.
I am a feminist. What is rad fem?
I have had to repeatedly justify to Caucasian, White women that there are distinct differences in the statistics of crime and the psychology motivating the genders. Like it or not, it doesn't care about your ideology and it exists.
@@jujutrini8412 Radical feminism. Type of feminism which conceptualises patriarchy as oppression of all women by all men. It lacks nuance and dismisses individuality.
I've actually found the opposite with rad fem online spaces, they often understand male violence against women as inevitable and a biological feature of all men. In online spaces sex essentialism was very strong. But my main gripe with radical feminism is the idea that all men are oppressive to all women. Just reminds me of Critical Race Theory nonsense. Any ideology trying to convince me that a person's character and behaviour will be based on their physical characteristics is not something I'm willing to subscribe to.
38:45 Helen articulates something important that I've thought about but was unable to quite realize and frame. She offers a cogent explanation for why we're being coerced into having a "correct attitude" that is atypical of most liberation or rights movements. If I want the right to, say, use a currently proscribed recreational drug, I don't need you to share in my enthusiasm or approval of the activity in order to enjoy that right, should it be attained. Great discussion, thanks.
I would love to hear more from Helen about economics that benefits women and children.
I have watched many interviews with Helen on this issue because she is so easy and intellectually invigorating to listen to. There is overlap, but different questions result in new insights every time. Thanks for this conversation, it was absolutely brilliant.
Excellent. Really excellent. Two extremely smart ladies talking for over an hour. What the podcast format was designed for.
Wish you a huge success with this podcast ! Thank you for your work !
This whole interview was great. I've read Helen Joyce's book. It is a must read! I will say about the last 10 minutes of this interview was axis shifting for me. I am neither a feminist nor antifeminist but I what is a raised around left to far left in America and about the last 10 min conversation in this interview goes so far beyond anything I would ever encounter. I'm subscribing to this channel!
This is episode is just SO good. I’ve listened to it 3 times now. I think it’s my favourite discussion that Louise has done in this series so far. I’m going to buy Helen’s book now.
This was awesome hahaha, thanks. I first saw you on Modern Wisdom, read your book in one plane flight, and when you mentioned this on your Jordan Peterson interview I instantly subscribed. I do hope the trans movement loses steam, soon, but I am worried.
Frankly, though, I'm beginning to wonder whether "right" and "left" as descriptors might be antiquated. There are some pretty strange alliances forming if we think in those terms.
Great conversation! Glad to see your subscribers going up.
Please continue speaking truth to power. Helen and Louise are so sensible and honest. Real women would never be so arrogant and stupid as to say the things that trans ‘women’ spew regularly. I am reminded of the man who told JK Rowling that he is more woman than she will ever be.
Helen is a hypocrite. She thinks mutilating unborn babies is fine, but wants to force adults into not transitioning.
Thank you so much for this podcast. For some time I've been very vocal about the fact that I'm "not a feminist" because I just feel that those who use the term are drifting so far from real women's issues and attempting to slay and/or invent such tiny and insignificant dragons... and im totally bored by how most people just regurgitate sound bites from the left that dont actually mean anything. the last part of this discussion is the only thing I've heard I think ever that might convince me that there is still use for the term. I'd be so interested in more conversations around the maiden/mother/matriarch triad, especially diving into motherhood and mothers issues. Looking forward to more thought provoking conversations.
hard to believe this is only the third episode
consistently outstanding work right out the gate. bravo!
Great conversation. Despite being in this fight for many years in Australia I heard some things which gave me food for thought.
you two both encourage me so much to speak my mind more often in my everyday life. not just when it comes to these topics.
I am glad you exist. I rarely had female rolemodels, my mother has too much internalised misogyny, she only made my life harder as a teen. now, in my early 30s I feel more confident than I have ever been and thanks to you I now have the words to voice so many things that have been bothering me. thank you!!
Really interesting interview! This was my introduction to Helen and I will definitely buy her book. The idea that women's innate kindess (or desire to help the weak, however you want to put it) leads them to support the trans movement is reminiscent of the recent controversy over drag queens performing in front of children. These events are being attended by young, heterosexual mums, and they are the ones who are supporting it and calling critics of it bigots. They are the ones who are trying to gaslight anyone who dares suggest that it's not appropriate for children. Obviously most women think it's disgusting but I suspect that men ate much less likely to give these "performers" the benefit of the doubt. A male perspective is - these guys are perverts, there's no other reason to do this.
I think you're right--yes, it's the young women brainwashed by the prevailing zeitgeist (though I suspect there's an Emperor's New Clothes element at work here too) who support this grotesquerie. Women of the older generations tend to think the drag queen storytime stuff is deplorable. Young kids shouldn't be exposed to this. (I've never found drag to be amusing. While some of the performers may be talented, I've never bought the justification that, by representing the worst patriarchal stereotypes of women, they're actually parodying them.) It also nauseates me and most of the older women I know to see little kids cavorting at Gay Pride parades along with half-naked men in leather straps. I consider fetishism utterly degrading. Perhaps we should bring back the good old-fashioned notion of "shame." How pathetic to centre your life on bizarre variants of sexual gratification--or even "normal" sexual gratification.
Fascinating, and I hadn't deeply considered the very biological distinct cycles that a female experiences vs. a spectrum-like biology for males. Some of the cycles within a female's life are as different in needs and societal response as the broad differences between sexes.
This was an amazing conversation! Thank you both and please, more of this!!!🙏💖
Always love seeing Helen’s bookcase. So many great reads.
Thank you for inviting Helen. Very interesting conversation.
The idea of "variant" femininity / masculinity is gold. First time hearing about it - makes so much sense. Also loved the bit on how autogynephelia is at the core of the gender ideology especially with projecting it onto children. This whole episode was fascinating - thank you so much!!!
First, I am thrilled that Louise Perry now has a channel. Second, this was a *fascinating* interview.
Thanks you folks ! It's really important that these conversations are available to listen to and reflect on, these days. It's so easy to to get lost in amongst the lots of extreme ideas that have suddenly popped up everywhere ! I'm an ordinary middle class male in my 7th decade and depend on people like you to help me pick my way through the modern world...
I was born with club feet and had a series of surgical interventions to straighten my feet and allow me to walk. I live with the cost of that in terms of chronic pain, lack of medical understanding and physical imbalances. The other cost would be somewhat similar so it was a good call. This idea that people can chop off parts of their bodies with no consequences is madness. We are not Mr and Mrs potato heads!
Really interesting conversation! Thankyou, and looking forward to hearing more!
Thank you Louise and Helen for sharing this discussion. It's superb in content and style - important, courageous yet measured, and as kind and empathetic as it could be. At bedrock, and with two young daughters who are growing up fast, I really appreciate the commitment to an axiom that there is objective reality with facts that can be known. Accepting that, we can then face honestly the positive and negative consequences. That seems to me the only sound basis for discussion, and thank you for anchoring in such terms .
Thank you for this important interview!
The part about the sexualities and the sexes and the different types of masculinity and femininity is highly fascinating! I have observed these things like that in the real world and it is wonderful to hear it confirmed like that!
wow, such an interesting discussion, thank you!
Such an insightful conversation. Thanks ladies!
I cannot like this talk enough. It answers so many questions. Thank you ladies.
You are both absolute heros to me. Thank you for your work protecting and prioritizing women and children.
This is one of the sanest conversations on the internet
That's a pretty low bar, but yes, there are few intelligent people out there.
@@sarahsnowe I'm more so thinking sanity over intelligence. Why is it such a low bar?
@@HildaDeerfoxdoesn't get mainstream clicks thats why
Helen is brilliant. As fluent as her writing and thinking are, she has a gift for speaking.
I must say that both of you women are among my most admired people in the public sphere....and I don't have that many on my list (only 5 or 6). Thanks for representing women so well!
It's the same for me.
When we lie to ourselves repeatedly we build a society on lies that doesn't suit our needs.
Fantastic conversation, I have huge admiration for you both 👏 I'm one of the angry mothers you refer to!
Interesting discussion. Thanks. I don't really agree with the RadFem framing of the trans issue as being primarily one of male vs female, though. Rather it seems to be an issue of men & women on the political Left (most of them ostensibly Feminist) who over the years have adopted certain ways of thinking that have mainstreamed what used to be an extremely fringe and irrelevant subculture. Now the few saner factions of the Left are scrambling to contain a beast of the Left's own making.
Louise, your work is amazing. Please keep doing what you are doing. Women like you give me hope for the future.
Thankyou Helen, for your work 😊❤
Didn't realise you had your own channel. Instant sub!!✊️
Hello Louise, I'm a new subscriber. I found your podcast via your recent interview with Jordan Peterson, but I first saw you on your interview with the Spectator.
Loved this.
I love people who are eloquent and intelligent... thankfully we still have people like this ....
Amazing conversation
HJ is brilliant, thanks for having her on
Fantastic talk …both of these women really get what is going on.
1:06:15
"Maybe there are seeds within leftist ideology that will always lead us here"
After considering myself on the left (because of economic leftism) for a long time, I had this realization as well.
The way it came clear to me, is that I thought that you could open the door to leftism and only welcoming in the bits you like and not inviting the rest inside, thereby ending up with an ideal society. It became clear to me in 2016 that, in fact, the left always devolves into its essence. That you can't open the door and keep the wind from blowing in and bringing whatever it likes with it. Once the door is open, anything and everything waiting on the other side can and will come barreling in.
That's when I became a conservative.
Helen is a gem.
Two of my favourite women in politics!
I love that Helen's got the Ink Black Heart on the shelf. I've got it too in my library.
Were the police cowards or just didn't care? CSA and violence/SA against females is unreported and when it is the police don't deal with it, even when they do, it rarely goes to court where victims endure further trauma. The offender rarely get sentenced and if they do they are out of prison in 3 or 4 yrs to keep offending. There's no consequences yet the victims whole life is ruined.😢
Great discussion ladies.
Good chat thx.
Use of “Male supremacy “is better than “patriarchy. “It’s not the rule of fathers ; it’s rule of males , not just fathers.
Very insightful
I love the name of your channel! (So much kinder than Maiden,Mother, Crone!)
I'm glad people bring up the trans connection with profit by companies..
1. “When you have beliefs that are harmful to human beings, they are more harmful to women and children.”
2. “It’s worse than lying to be kind, it’s lying to be good.”
I mean I’m not even 15 minutes in and I’m moved.
Louise and Helen, please keep up the amazing work!
Agree 6:08 ! I’ve never been engaged but I’m now hyper aware. I’m furious at what I’ve lost! And I’m winning debates with pro trans people regarding women’s safety. I think men are waking up.
Interesting and insightful
Brilliant
Interesting conversation
I do agree with you (both) in regards to many issues. I do, however, see more problems with feminism than you seem to acknowledge. I'll venture to make a suggestion that probably won't be taken seriously, but I'll make it, anyway. I'll give the names of three women that I offer as possibilities for being brought for a talk: Janice Fiamengo, Karen Straughan or Alison Tieman. Any of them would be able to carry a very nice conversation, I''m sure (from a point of view seldom even recognized). Of the three, Janice is the one with academic credentials, being a former university professor in Canada, if that matters.
We are backing the 1800's regarding WOMENS RIGHTS.
Love the title of this podcast!
It's true, the prospect of being a mother and matriarch (and crone) are deeply unappealing to younger women. I don't know how we get around that, honestly, because I see it almost never modelled that life gets better with being a mother and dependant, and so on. It's like being a young woman sucks in many ways, and then the slope just seems to go down, never up to something that looks really soul-satisfying (for me - I don't want kids) So I've often preferred to only think of myself as a human, as much as I can, and ignore the female part, because taken all-together, it seems to have more negatives than positives, if you're like me and having a baby doesn't look appealing in the slightest.
I'm currently listening to "Mother Nature" by Sarah Hrdy. It's a fascinating book which provides an historical, biological and evolutionary basis for what you've just described.
If you have no interest in motherhood, then middle and later life doesn’t look that great for women, I agree. Tbh, later life is no fun for anyone, man or woman, but middle aged men often retain more status than middle aged women. Middle aged men often pursue & win the favors of young women in preference to women their own age, only to lose these younger wives when they pass into old age.
I think it's a result of society as a whole seeing women through the male lense - they're great when they're young, and rather unfortunate when they're not. Until we stop over-valuing youth and instead value each stage of our lives for the unique experience it is and for the lessons it teaches us, women will forever feel that their worth has dropped off a cliff post-35.
@@Tina06019you do realize that men have the opposite. When men are 18-30 they have little value because they have little to no resources
@@hallowakers3d2y Men 18-30 have little value?? Someone needs to tell all girls and young women who idolise that exact demographic 😂 Just look at the kpop fandom at the moment. Or the Beatles or Rolling Stones or any rock or pop band in history… See also: Hollywood and movie stars.
Helen pointing out the economic policies that should be at the top of feminist manifestoes was the most important part of this conversation. Most important to improve life for literally everyone.
If you look at the composition of the educational, medical and phycological boards and committees that created these problems (wpath) it can hardly be described as patriarchy. Welcome to the new Matriarchy.
43:19 This reminds me of the other day when I was watching a video of Shape Shifter (an HSTS detrans man, for those who don't know) and thinking, "He's feminine, but feminine like a drag queen, not feminine like a woman."
I absolutely loved this interview, especially acknowledging masculine and feminine on different scales, as opposed to going down the route of changing your entire gender based on typical stereotypes of how men and women behave. And the why behind the trans activism makes me so angry. The top of the crop with a nasty fetish, that can’t pass for a women demanding we all play along.
I’m a lesbian in my late 30’s and my whole life I have never cared more been interested in feminism or anything of the like. This whole debate has me actively involved and now giving a damn about what is going on. I’ve learnt more about feminism in the last two years than I have ever known. I honestly don’t even know what type I would call myself but as a gay woman I’m fed up with the bull.
I've always wondered about the 10 week stage of the foetus, witch determines what 'sex' we become, that something goes array i.e. too much estrogen/tesestrone???
Helen Joyce for prime minister!!!!!
To construe transgenderism as a phenomenon that somehow serves the patriarchy, I think really obfuscates the issue. Trans women make up about 0.4% of the British population. So 99+% of people in the UK are not trans, meaning that approx 49.5% of the UK population are cis men, and a majority of them agree with you on women's only spaces (if you check the polling, in fact, you'll find that men agree with you much much more than women do).
When people refer to patriarchy they mostly refer to a combination of men themselves, their bodies, opinions, power, systems, laws, law makers, white-bearded philosophers, billionaires, etc. Well, 80% of the billionaire-owned, Murdoch-inspired, policy-influencing British media is conservative leaning and most of the pundits - the male anchors, editors, and owners - agree with you also.
If patriarchy exists, I would argue it is firmly on your side on this one.
The other thing to consider is that the majority of trans activists are cis women. Intersectional feminists. If trans rights and concerns are gaining prominence, it isn't men doing this. It is women.
Meanwhile, lots of trans people are trans men AKA "biological women". So when you relate transgender women or "biological men" to patriarchy, it just doesn't seem to hold any water (what would you relate trans men to? Matriarchy? It doesn't make sense).
Outside the media, it seems to me cis men really don't have much to do with the conversation at all. While you get labelled "bigots" for what you're saying, when it comes to feminism and transgender activism cis men are often considered bigots before they speak. In my experience, men are generally quite bewildered by it all, the constantly proliferating rancour among feminists, intersectional, sex positive, religious, terfs, anti-terfs, eco-, Marxist-, radical-, liberal-, conservative-feminists. To an outsider there's just so so so soooooo much noise and disagreement that it almost renders the term completely meaningless.
Most men are getting on with their lives, going to work, caring for their loved ones, trying to get a holiday every year or two, dealing with their own anxieties and hardships (the ones that mean they die by suicide at higher rates than women, that render them homeless in much much higher rates than women, that see them suffer addiction, loneliness and social ostracisation in higher rates than women).
I agree with you on certain other aspects (sports, prisons, etc.), but it just seems incredibly lazy and convenient to invoke patriarchy here.
This is the issue I have with Helen in particular, she see's a lot of the issues but she attributes it to patriarchy and men when most of this is propagated by women, men by and large don't agree with any of the trans stuff or are completely indifferent/apathetic.
It just rubs the wrong way to have someone notice the nonsense of the left only to continue blaming the only people that acknowledge their own complaints.
The male incel to trans pipeline should be investigated more.
I think so too.
"Absolutely a fools endeavor" perfect
First interview I have seen you do where you both are coming from the same place. Of course that is the norm, conservatives talk to other conservatives and vice versa. What has been interesting for me is hearing what the younger generations obsess about which I haven't focused on enough and I have picked your channel to start on mostly cause I was researching Christian Nationalism and you turned up talking to Allie Beth Stuckey and caught my interest
Being critical of this new trans movement is not a left or right issue. It’s a woman’s issue. Feminists on the left have always taken into account economic policy and raising women out of poverty being essential. These two women are being disingenuous. Women caring for their children is not a left or right issue. The reason why we are not heard is that we are poor and don’t have highflying jobs and the media only invites right wing people to air their opinions.
'...and the media only invites right wing people to air their opinions.'
The subjective casting of the demarcations of the Left-Right spectrum is just another reason why it's frequently a useless lense to employ.
That & the fact that there are two of them, economic & social, which don't always align.
A saw a picture of I would guess a 15 year old girl. She was standing with her mum or a female family member, she had a very short hair cut and stood there with a beaming smile on her face. You could tell she was in pjs that she had especially picked out for her stay in hospital. Because as she stood there with her cheery family member with her bright yellow t-Rex cartoon pajamas she had just had a double mastectomy and was smiling like she had just won the lottery. I was horrified absolutely horrified and that’s the moment I saw trans ideology for what it was a pernicious toxic cult. Everything I’ve learnt in the last couple of months I don’t know how I didn’t see it before or how I could have missed it. Girls at 15 cutting of perfectly healthy breasts for something they have no way of truly understanding the repercussions of at that age. I hope that girl doesn’t change her mind. It’s barbaric and I can’t believe our politicians and academics are championing this and shutting down any who oppose the be kind or we will make you regret it philosophy. It’s insanity.
37:14 one of the things that paved the way for trans ideology is treating gay men like honorary women and women always appointing themselves to protect them. Helen talks about the previous research that found straight men’s reason for being trans as deviant but gay men just “fit in better as women.” I don’t think that gay men’s intentions should have ever been portrayed so innocently.
I find the point about the healthcare industry making money by not helping people interesting because I have a similar belief about language-learning. Many of the most economically successful apps, platforms and companies have appalling results but hook clients into paying for years to not improve very much at all.
When Children are treated as Human Beings by Our Society, everything will turn around.
For me, I feel like a lot of the discussion around transgenderism and gender identity today mainly come from a place of politics and grifting, and not a genuine understanding or want of understanding, just like how homosexuality was discussed 50-60 years ago.
I'm pretty sure you'll find that most of today's discussions on this topic was rooted by right wing political rhetoric. These are the political parties that usually benefit from generating fear, confusion and anger in a population, so I don't find it surprising. CRT wasn't getting the attention it was when it was first being discussed, so now we are seeing traction in the public discussion with transgenderism. In a few years time, there will probably be another topic that people can get upset about, or they can always fall back on their go to rhetoric about immigrants.
I'm not for nor against gender affirmation surgeries, I'm not a clinical professional working in this space and I don't know nearly enough about the people it effects. But for me, gender identify is just a name we've given to one of the ways a person expresses how they feel inside. We grow up in a society with seemingly innate gender norms, that are sometimes just arbitrary inclusions, and I think challenging societal norms is a healthy thing in society. Socials norms can be great and comforting for the majority of people who don't think twice about how they fit in, but they can make some people feel uncomfortable or stifled, which I imaging can be incredibly isolating, especially when you have so much media out there at the moment (like this discussion here, where Helen and Louise use a lot of argumentative fallacies dressed up as thoughtful and unbiased views), that can build a quite resentment with in it's listeners, which is not unusual to then grow to an outspoken resentment.
I have a crush on Helen Joyce. What a mind.
autogynaphillia as the core of trans activism -- very interesting.