The king wanting the vineyard for a vegetable garden is not odd at all. Fruits and vegetables spoil extremely quickly compared to grains, especially before the advent of more modern and resilient variants. That's why in pre-industrial economies horticultural plots always had to be very close to the city center/castle/palace. That little detail actually gives us another clue about the location of the vineyard - Naboth was sitting on some prime horticultural real estate, meaning it couldn't be more than a day's or half a day's travel from the local market center of Samaria. It makes complete sense that Ahab, wanting to diversify his diet (as aristocrats wont to do) and maybe sell vegetable for profit, would want it then.
It is a real shame that more Phoenician sources haven't survived into the present. Maybe, someday, archaeologists will bless us with with a new discovery. Great video TIBR. You deserve a lot more subscriptions!
Thanks! And yes, it is really hard to find solid information on Phoenician history. It doesn't help that Lebanon and Syria are difficult places to conduct archaeology.
Excellent work. Really places into perspective the need to examine inconsistencies which are present between LXX & MT. Equally important is the contextual significance of this presentation to the current context of women in South Africa, who are experience great injustices in their lives today. Thank you for this.
I appreciate the comment, Malolo. With regard to South African women, are you speaking in general terms, or does the Jezebel name have particular significance there? I'm more familiar with its use in American culture as a stereotype to justify the rape of slaves and, more recently, its use in charismatic Christianity.
@@InquisitiveBible A bit of both really. The context of South African women is one that is drenched in violence, and rape culture, inequality and oppressiveness. This would be the general application. Similarly, your latter submission of “Jezebel’s name” equally also applies, especially from the American Charismatic Christian Context. Many Christian churches in SA adopt a Western (American) manner of biblical interpretation & application. So the name of Jezebel derives a kind woman who is against God and his people (men) as opposed to the woman of Proverbs 31 (although I feel this text is equally misinterpreted).
@@InquisitiveBible,, I must make it known that "Jezabel" is often used by Queens in History ,, as ISOBEL - It is a common name. Only in America is it demonized.
Super. I thoroughly enjoyed the layout and graphics, the right bits of humor, and how greatly informative this was... looking forward to more of your hospitable videos, thank you 🙏🏻🌎❤️
Thanks. There are a lot more differences between the LXX and MT in the Jezebel story I didn't mention - like how some LXX versions as well as the Latin include pigs along with dogs. This might actually explain why prostitutes bathe in Ahab's blood, because the word is similar to that of pig in Hebrew.
Thank you for sharing the truth and clarifying how and why Jezebel was obviously framed and defamed. It is sad that she has been so unfairly demonized. I admire your courage in speaking up.
Excellent work. Concerning Sidon and Tyre, through out history, although they are two separate kingdoms, sometimes Tyre governed Sidon, and sometimes Sidon governed Tyre.
New sub here. Great work! 👏 I also happened to find similitudes between the supposed conspiracy of Jezebel against Naboth in 1 Kings 21 and the way God plotted Ahab's death in 1 Kings 22. The things God does in this chapter correspond a lot with the supposed actions taken by Jezebel. They both use deceit and lies in order to have someone killed. But I didn't see the similarities between this story and David's killing plot, so thank you for that!
Thanks for visiting and the nice comment. It's interesting what you point out about God's deliberate deception in 1 Kings 22. That passage is strange for a number of reasons. Ahab is referred to simply as "the king of Israel" for most of the story, leading some scholars to wonder if it was originally even about Ahab.
@@InquisitiveBible Oh yeah, that's super interesting too. I also noticed that in the story, that his name is not mentioned. Another fun thing is that God appears to be leading this sort of heavenly assembly of gods and goddesses pretty much like in the Greek myths, where the gods decide which of them is going to intervene in some earthly affair. Btw, Myth Vision brought me here. I loved the way you wrote the script for his latest video on Judges. That's why I decided to check your content out, and I'm loving it.
Thank you, Paul. I really appreciate what you have researched and shared here, and the very creative way that you have put it all together in your video. For decades I’ve felt irked by the way Jezebel is bashed from pulpits. I’ve heard many sermons demonizing her, particularly in regard to the Mt Carmel episode (1 Kings 18). But verse 40 (Elijah slaughtering the prophets of Baal) is swept under the rug. I’m keenly aware that we don’t have access to “her side” of the story. Now you’ve got me wondering about how scholars view the composition of chapter 18. This “fire of the Lord” episode has always struck me as phantasmagorical. Is there any chance that this story might have been invented and inserted with the intent to frame Jezebel and shift attention away from Elijah’s mass murder? If you have any thoughts of your own, or insights from researching what others might think, I would love to know about whatever you could share.
Thanks for the nice comment, Linda. Far from distracting attention from Elijah’s mass murder, I think Jezebel’s role is invented to be a foil for Elijah and highlight his “heroism” (from the author’s perspective) as a prophet in the mold of Moses, and this was only possible once the Naboth story had turned Jezebel into a murderess. The key is the order in which 1 Kings was probably expanded with these passages. The original (Deuteronomic) text went straight from 16:33, where Ahab is accused of being worse than his predecessors, to 21:17 where “Elijah the Tishbite” appears and delivers the same oracle as Ahijah and Jehu ben Hanani. Elijah would not be introduced as “the Tishbite” here if he had already been introduced in chapter 17. Next, the Naboth story was added, and Yahweh’s instructions to Elijah were added to link the oracle against Ahab to the new story. Next, new stories about the adversarial relationship between Elijah and Ahab/Jezebel were added in chapters 17 and 18. These stories are modeled after Elisha and Moses and are no longer concerned with the sins of Jeroboam. Elijah’s altar on Mt. Carmel resembles Moses’s in Ex. 24:4. Elijah’s contest with the prophets of Baal is like Moses’s competition with the Egyptian magicians. The slaughter of the prophets of Baal mirrors the slaughter of the worshippers of the golden calf. Chapter 18 ends the story in Jezreel to set up the story of Naboth’s vineyard. Lastly, chapter 19 is inserted about an Elijah who is not the triumphant victor of chapter 18 but a fearful and discouraged prophet. Along the way, we end up with a lot of contradictions as pointed out to me by fellow Bible nerd John Kesler: (1) 1 Kings 19:14 blames the Israelites rather than Jezebel for killing the prophets. (2) Obadiah supposedly hid 100 prophets from Jezebel (18:4), yet Elijah claims to be the only prophet of Yahweh left (18:22 and 19:22). (3) What happened to the 400 prophets of Asherah supported by Jezebel in 18:19? As a side note, we also have more differences between the LXX and MT; for example, the LXX has Jezebel declare to Elijah in 19:2, “If you are Elijah, then I am Jezebel.” (Most of the above information is pulled from the sources already cited in the description, but especially McKenzie 1991 and 2014.)
Good eye. Yes, I worked out a “look” I wanted for Jezebel and Ahab and generated some portraits on Midjourney, since my own illustration skills are lacking.
Let me began with this. I greatly appreciate your research and work. Thank you for sharing it with us. There were thousands of antiquitie's kings who murdered out of greed and attempted to cover it up. There is no necessary logical reason to suggest that the Ahab, Jezebel, Naboth story is pattern after the David and Bathsheba account. It is a far stretch to say the least. So often scholars are caught up so deeply in their own hubris, that they lose sight of the simple and obvious. Human behavior, which includes religion, culture and every facet of human life and existence follows a pattern. Different versions of this pattern are represented in the ancient literature of remote civilizations all over the world.
Thanks for the comment and the nice words. For me, it's not the act of murder itself that is patterned after the David-Uriah story - as you say, kings have committed atrocities throughout history, and there may well have been a vintner named Naboth who was murdered by the king. And many of the items in the story as we have it are arguably common literary tropes. However, I personally find the connections drawn by Patrick Cronauer and Marsha White between the two stories to be quite convincing. And more broadly speaking, my experience of reading the Old Testament ever since I was child has been to notice and wonder about the constant repetition of very specific plots and narrative devices. And since no one had ever pointed out the similarities until recently, I'm happy to do so, so that people can make up their own minds.
worth mentioning that the name "izebel" was probably izvul ... zvul meaning abundance .. the writer wanted to shame her because zevel means manure in hebrew
It has been confusing so much so that I don't like to read thru King's and Chronicles. No queen would forge her husband the kings Chronicles and she couldn't touch his seal
Thanks for the comment. That's an interesting point. A related thing about the story that seems suspicious is that it says she forged her husband’s seal, and yet the city elders and nobles wrote back to her directly once Naboth was dead. Shouldn't they have written back to Ahab?
I don't think it out of the realm of possibility for there to have been a historical Jezebel, but has people like yourself have pointed out the Book of Kings is not a reliant account for her since what is told villainizes her as a deceitful character who (along with Ahab) promoted Baal worship in the Northern Kingdom over that of the Israelite god Yahweh and to the point of even persecuting his prophets.
(im only @ 13 + minute mark , so i havent come to my final analysis yet) - so, in saying,, perhaps Naboth was stoned that very evening/night after judgement,, 🤔,, thing is,, did his offspring get stoned ? Or ,, were they given a new land entitlement , 🤔🤔..
I appreciate it! This was my hardest script to write so far, because there are so many quirks in the text that have implications for the story, and it was hard to find a path through it that presented a clear argument without over-complicating everything. There was so much I had to leave out too.
I am not a gnostic, but maybe I've misunderstood you. My intention with this channel is to understand how and why the Bible was written and share modern scholarship with the public, without dogma or prejudice. I think your RUclips handle "nuance over dogma" is an excellent description of what I am aiming for.
@@InquisitiveBible I doubt your intentions. Why gloss over Jezebel attempt to kill the prophet Elijah. Why create one sided context instead of going over both viewpoints accurately. You had an agenda and it shows. At least be honest.
I thought the Naboth murder story was more interesting and more relevant to the overall narrative about the dynasties of Ahab and Jehu. At 29 minutes, the video is already longer than I intended it to be.
@@InquisitiveBible why do you hide your motives & not come out with your motives? Those who attempt to deceive the public are doing an evil act. Why be a phony?
The king wanting the vineyard for a vegetable garden is not odd at all. Fruits and vegetables spoil extremely quickly compared to grains, especially before the advent of more modern and resilient variants. That's why in pre-industrial economies horticultural plots always had to be very close to the city center/castle/palace.
That little detail actually gives us another clue about the location of the vineyard - Naboth was sitting on some prime horticultural real estate, meaning it couldn't be more than a day's or half a day's travel from the local market center of Samaria. It makes complete sense that Ahab, wanting to diversify his diet (as aristocrats wont to do) and maybe sell vegetable for profit, would want it then.
Thanks for the comment. That's a great way to frame the desire for a vegetable garden next to the palace, and it makes a lot of sense.
It is a real shame that more Phoenician sources haven't survived into the present. Maybe, someday, archaeologists will bless us with with a new discovery.
Great video TIBR. You deserve a lot more subscriptions!
Thanks! And yes, it is really hard to find solid information on Phoenician history. It doesn't help that Lebanon and Syria are difficult places to conduct archaeology.
Excellent work. Really places into perspective the need to examine inconsistencies which are present between LXX & MT. Equally important is the contextual significance of this presentation to the current context of women in South Africa, who are experience great injustices in their lives today. Thank you for this.
I appreciate the comment, Malolo. With regard to South African women, are you speaking in general terms, or does the Jezebel name have particular significance there? I'm more familiar with its use in American culture as a stereotype to justify the rape of slaves and, more recently, its use in charismatic Christianity.
@@InquisitiveBible A bit of both really. The context of South African women is one that is drenched in violence, and rape culture, inequality and oppressiveness. This would be the general application. Similarly, your latter submission of “Jezebel’s name” equally also applies, especially from the American Charismatic Christian Context. Many Christian churches in SA adopt a Western (American) manner of biblical interpretation & application. So the name of Jezebel derives a kind woman who is against God and his people (men) as opposed to the woman of Proverbs 31 (although I feel this text is equally misinterpreted).
@@InquisitiveBible,, I must make it known that "Jezabel" is often used by Queens in History ,, as ISOBEL -
It is a common name.
Only in America is it demonized.
Super. I thoroughly enjoyed the layout and graphics, the right bits of humor, and how greatly informative this was... looking forward to more of your hospitable videos, thank you 🙏🏻🌎❤️
Thanks for the nice comment!
Loved the crime story setup. I really should read up on the LXX/MT issues in Samuel/Kings, seems like a mess.
Thanks. There are a lot more differences between the LXX and MT in the Jezebel story I didn't mention - like how some LXX versions as well as the Latin include pigs along with dogs. This might actually explain why prostitutes bathe in Ahab's blood, because the word is similar to that of pig in Hebrew.
Thank you for the excellent video :) On rewatch maybe I'll have questions, but for now I'll just say that "Oracle shmoracle" is just perfect
Thanks for the nice comment.
Found you from the Bible Unboxed video. Very interesting, gained a sub.
Thanks!
Fun fact: the incuisitive bible reader is my dad.
I think he should have atleast 1k subs to me.
Hey buddy.
Here because of myth vision! (I'd love to see your source list on that script! Great job, btw!)
If you expand the description, all the main sources are listed there. The most important ones are the books by Cronauer and Robker.
Thank you for sharing the truth and clarifying how and why Jezebel was obviously framed and defamed. It is sad that she has been so unfairly demonized. I admire your courage in speaking up.
Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it.
@@InquisitiveBible My pleasure.
An incredible video as always! ❤️
Thanks! I'm really glad you liked it.
Excellent work.
Concerning Sidon and Tyre, through out history, although they are two separate kingdoms, sometimes Tyre governed Sidon, and sometimes Sidon governed Tyre.
Thanks for the comment. Yeah, sometimes they're almost interchangeable in how they are referred to, even though they are separate cities.
New sub here. Great work! 👏 I also happened to find similitudes between the supposed conspiracy of Jezebel against Naboth in 1 Kings 21 and the way God plotted Ahab's death in 1 Kings 22. The things God does in this chapter correspond a lot with the supposed actions taken by Jezebel. They both use deceit and lies in order to have someone killed. But I didn't see the similarities between this story and David's killing plot, so thank you for that!
Thanks for visiting and the nice comment. It's interesting what you point out about God's deliberate deception in 1 Kings 22. That passage is strange for a number of reasons. Ahab is referred to simply as "the king of Israel" for most of the story, leading some scholars to wonder if it was originally even about Ahab.
@@InquisitiveBible Oh yeah, that's super interesting too. I also noticed that in the story, that his name is not mentioned. Another fun thing is that God appears to be leading this sort of heavenly assembly of gods and goddesses pretty much like in the Greek myths, where the gods decide which of them is going to intervene in some earthly affair. Btw, Myth Vision brought me here. I loved the way you wrote the script for his latest video on Judges. That's why I decided to check your content out, and I'm loving it.
Thanks. Let me know if there's any particular topic you're interested in.
These videos are amazing and informative. Great scholarship!
Great work. You really make Bible scholarship accessible.
Thank you, Paul. I really appreciate what you have researched and shared here, and the very creative way that you have put it all together in your video.
For decades I’ve felt irked by the way Jezebel is bashed from pulpits. I’ve heard many sermons demonizing her, particularly in regard to the Mt Carmel episode (1 Kings 18). But verse 40 (Elijah slaughtering the prophets of Baal) is swept under the rug. I’m keenly aware that we don’t have access to “her side” of the story.
Now you’ve got me wondering about how scholars view the composition of chapter 18. This “fire of the Lord” episode has always struck me as phantasmagorical. Is there any chance that this story might have been invented and inserted with the intent to frame Jezebel and shift attention away from Elijah’s mass murder?
If you have any thoughts of your own, or insights from researching what others might think, I would love to know about whatever you could share.
Thanks for the nice comment, Linda. Far from distracting attention from Elijah’s mass murder, I think Jezebel’s role is invented to be a foil for Elijah and highlight his “heroism” (from the author’s perspective) as a prophet in the mold of Moses, and this was only possible once the Naboth story had turned Jezebel into a murderess.
The key is the order in which 1 Kings was probably expanded with these passages.
The original (Deuteronomic) text went straight from 16:33, where Ahab is accused of being worse than his predecessors, to 21:17 where “Elijah the Tishbite” appears and delivers the same oracle as Ahijah and Jehu ben Hanani. Elijah would not be introduced as “the Tishbite” here if he had already been introduced in chapter 17.
Next, the Naboth story was added, and Yahweh’s instructions to Elijah were added to link the oracle against Ahab to the new story.
Next, new stories about the adversarial relationship between Elijah and Ahab/Jezebel were added in chapters 17 and 18. These stories are modeled after Elisha and Moses and are no longer concerned with the sins of Jeroboam. Elijah’s altar on Mt. Carmel resembles Moses’s in Ex. 24:4. Elijah’s contest with the prophets of Baal is like Moses’s competition with the Egyptian magicians. The slaughter of the prophets of Baal mirrors the slaughter of the worshippers of the golden calf. Chapter 18 ends the story in Jezreel to set up the story of Naboth’s vineyard.
Lastly, chapter 19 is inserted about an Elijah who is not the triumphant victor of chapter 18 but a fearful and discouraged prophet.
Along the way, we end up with a lot of contradictions as pointed out to me by fellow Bible nerd John Kesler: (1) 1 Kings 19:14 blames the Israelites rather than Jezebel for killing the prophets. (2) Obadiah supposedly hid 100 prophets from Jezebel (18:4), yet Elijah claims to be the only prophet of Yahweh left (18:22 and 19:22). (3) What happened to the 400 prophets of Asherah supported by Jezebel in 18:19? As a side note, we also have more differences between the LXX and MT; for example, the LXX has Jezebel declare to Elijah in 19:2, “If you are Elijah, then I am Jezebel.”
(Most of the above information is pulled from the sources already cited in the description, but especially McKenzie 1991 and 2014.)
@@InquisitiveBible Wow. Thanks for all that info!
Great perspective !
are some of the portraits here made in AI or is it my imagination? lol. They look really interesting (amazing video too)
Good eye. Yes, I worked out a “look” I wanted for Jezebel and Ahab and generated some portraits on Midjourney, since my own illustration skills are lacking.
Let me began with this. I greatly appreciate your research and work. Thank you for sharing it with us.
There were thousands of antiquitie's kings who murdered out of greed and attempted to cover it up. There is no necessary logical reason to suggest that the Ahab, Jezebel, Naboth story is pattern after the David and Bathsheba account. It is a far stretch to say the least. So often scholars are caught up so deeply in their own hubris, that they lose sight of the simple and obvious. Human behavior, which includes religion, culture and every facet of human life and existence follows a pattern. Different versions of this pattern are represented in the ancient literature of remote civilizations all over the world.
Thanks for the comment and the nice words. For me, it's not the act of murder itself that is patterned after the David-Uriah story - as you say, kings have committed atrocities throughout history, and there may well have been a vintner named Naboth who was murdered by the king. And many of the items in the story as we have it are arguably common literary tropes.
However, I personally find the connections drawn by Patrick Cronauer and Marsha White between the two stories to be quite convincing. And more broadly speaking, my experience of reading the Old Testament ever since I was child has been to notice and wonder about the constant repetition of very specific plots and narrative devices. And since no one had ever pointed out the similarities until recently, I'm happy to do so, so that people can make up their own minds.
worth mentioning that the name "izebel" was probably izvul ... zvul meaning abundance .. the writer wanted to shame her because zevel means manure in hebrew
Great point! It seems to be intended as a pun on "dung" due to how it's pointed.
It has been confusing so much so that I don't like to read thru King's and Chronicles. No queen would forge her husband the kings Chronicles and she couldn't touch his seal
Thanks for the comment. That's an interesting point. A related thing about the story that seems suspicious is that it says she forged her husband’s seal, and yet the city elders and nobles wrote back to her directly once Naboth was dead. Shouldn't they have written back to Ahab?
2:02 Shoshenq redemption?
Not gonna lie, I've been wanting to work that pun in somewhere.
Don’t know how you did it, but your comment section is free from the grunts of the tinfoil hat army proclaiming tHe bIBlE iS thE WoRd oF tHE LorD
They show up occasionally, but there's less of that than I expected.
excellent as always!
Your kind words are always appreciated, @madProgenitorDeity.
I don't think it out of the realm of possibility for there to have been a historical Jezebel, but has people like yourself have pointed out the Book of Kings is not a reliant account for her since what is told villainizes her as a deceitful character who (along with Ahab) promoted Baal worship in the Northern Kingdom over that of the Israelite god Yahweh and to the point of even persecuting his prophets.
Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately, we'll probably never know more details about the life of the real Jezebel (assuming there was one).
I think it's pretty implicit in this channel that Biblical accounts are not to be taken as historical by themselves.
@@didack1419
I'm well aware, I've followed this guy's content for years now.
(im only @ 13 + minute mark , so i havent come to my final analysis yet) - so, in saying,, perhaps Naboth was stoned that very evening/night after judgement,, 🤔,, thing is,, did his offspring get stoned ? Or ,, were they given a new land entitlement , 🤔🤔..
It's very confusing. It seems like there was an earlier version of the story in which his children were killed as well.
Alright 5th time rewatching this and I'm starting to get it, yk what they say 6th times the charm!
I appreciate it! This was my hardest script to write so far, because there are so many quirks in the text that have implications for the story, and it was hard to find a path through it that presented a clear argument without over-complicating everything. There was so much I had to leave out too.
Do you hold beliefs of gnostics? Better to be honest about intentions than attempting to hide it.
I am not a gnostic, but maybe I've misunderstood you. My intention with this channel is to understand how and why the Bible was written and share modern scholarship with the public, without dogma or prejudice. I think your RUclips handle "nuance over dogma" is an excellent description of what I am aiming for.
@@InquisitiveBible I doubt your intentions. Why gloss over Jezebel attempt to kill the prophet Elijah. Why create one sided context instead of going over both viewpoints accurately. You had an agenda and it shows. At least be honest.
I thought the Naboth murder story was more interesting and more relevant to the overall narrative about the dynasties of Ahab and Jehu. At 29 minutes, the video is already longer than I intended it to be.
you have 666 subscribers. just saying.
I noticed! :D
@@InquisitiveBible why do you hide your motives & not come out with your motives? Those who attempt to deceive the public are doing an evil act. Why be a phony?
Yes David and Bathsheba. And it seems that jezebel was pregnant by Naboth
Jezebel will be judged if she was real. Just like everyone else. Some think it is written by the psalmist speaking of Christ and His bride