Would it be possible to put springs on the lifters? It would only have to handle the weight of the lifter to keep it against the cam. And you might be able to back off on main spring force to get longer life.
Why are OHC engines valve spring pressures so low compared to that of OHV engines? The OHC engines rev higher, yet their springs are smaller in diameter and the spring open and closed pressures are MUCH, MUCH lower than OHV engines. What is the physics behind this?
Lol dont do what I did and lose 6/24 valve spring seat washers cleaning the head because you forgot to remove them. Cost me an arm and a leg to source oem ones. Id be up for all new springs and matching seats @$500+ if I couldnt locate them.
Watching this because I saw there was a second one. You can say you're not an engineer and brush off your bad info all you want, but you're still making a video to teach something aren't you? WTF is the purpose if you're going to miss the mark so badly? Title of the video is "understanding valve springs" but the presenter obviously doesn't understand valve springs... It's harmonic resonance, nothing to do with the normal spring pressure and valve float per-se. A single spring is made with a single density and tension, and at it's resonant frequency the metal loses it's "spring" and basically goes soft like spaghetti. An additional spring will have a different resonant frequency that doesn't overlap with the first spring, but adds weight to the assembly and can cause float if used in the wrong application by somebody who learns everything from YT. Bikes rev over 15k and get past this by engineering better single spring designs with better alloys that push that frequency above the operational range of the engine, or just get rid of the spring altogether
@bridges of delusional county Nah, you're explaining it perfectly. It's sometimes a pain in the ass to get the cam to sit right on the tip of the lobe, especially if you have super stiff springs and an aggressive cam, but there's always a couple degrees of dwell it should be able to sit on. It's usually pretty easy to find that sweet spot if you have the appropriate cam turning tool with a long enough handle, but if you're forced to go at it with a wrench I usually have the best luck getting it close, then giving it a few light bumps with the heel of my hand. It's not TOO hard if you have a good box end wrench that fits nice and snug. And make sure that you don't loosen the pulley bolt. If I'm using a wrench I always come at it clockwise so I don't have to worry about breaking loose the pulley bolt. Check your FSM, there might be a hole or a slot somewhere on the cam that will hold it in the EXACT spot it needs to be, then you can just slide an appropriately sized punch (or whatever it calls for) in there to catch the hole. Edit: I didn't even answer your question in all that. lol. Yes, it's perfectly normal, and no, you shouldn't be able to stop it anywhere you want. Any time you're on the opening or closing ramp of the cam the valve spring is going to be fighting you, trying to close the valve and get back down onto the base of the cam. Hope my explanation helps. Be patient with it. It can be done, just don't let it beat you or get you flustered.
@bridges of delusional county Don't quote me on this, but it MIGHT be just the way the lobes on your engine are phased. You should be able to tell if that's the cause by just looking at it and watching how it works though. Remember, any time you put a valve in a drill, wrap the tip in electrical tape to protect it. A dial indicator can be picked up for pretty cheap, but you can tell if it's slightly bent by lapping it in and looking at the wear pattern. There's no "natural" runout though. Bent is bent. If you need a cheap way to test if the springs are fatigued, I made my own DIY setup with a cheap fish scale, some scrap metal, and 10 minutes with my welder. Stiff lifters? As in rockers? I'd be checking for wear on the shaft then, or checking if it's bent. As far as GM engine design, I've never seen anything come from any American manufacturer that was worth it's weight in mud. No offense meant. I grew up at my Dad's knee, who was a big smallblock guy. When I got older I started messing with foreign stuff and stopped ignoring the massive issues domestic stuff has. If you think active cams are confusing, you should come have a look at the insides of a Ducati. ;) Damn Italians think "complex" is a challenge with their Desmo, they're screwing the pooch with their transition to CAN, and it's impossible to find the English entries in the manual. Which brings me back to the best advice I can give you. You need a factory service manual. The factory one, from GM. Not a Haynes, or a Chilton, or any other crap, waste of money gimmick. Without one there's nothing stopping you from wasting your time chasing your tail.
Hey Mikael, do you have some question or some amazing wisdom you want to impart on Steve and the rest of us. Because from what you wrote here, and on some of his other videos is “errrrr American V8 is crap! My bike spin to 15k rpm!! errrr” If you knew more than just how high your Ducati revs you would know that a cross plane crank v8 with OHV heads and the cam in block design will never rev past 8500rpm. So for them resonant frequency and valve harmonics aren’t that important, even more so if it’s a drag race application. For them most important is good seat pressure, high lift with no bind, eliminating valve float, the valves are holding back tremendous amounts of manifold pressure if it’s a turbo or supercharged engine, and it usually is. Did you know that it takes 170hp just to spin the “top fuel” dragster supercharger! So maybe your Ducati could spin it? What you think?
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/af0phKxitX8/mqdefault.jpg)
Valesprings rule! Way to go, Steve!
3:16 Those spring force numbers are sick, 348-1062 lbs! Are those accurate? Must be for a roller cam race motor.
Would it be possible to put springs on the lifters? It would only have to handle the weight of the lifter to keep it against the cam. And you might be able to back off on main spring force to get longer life.
This technology already exist. Look up "REV KITS" to see for yourself.
Would like to hear your input on reading plugs for METHANOL.
If i have steel heads to i even need spring locators?.490 lift cam. just use shims to set valve installed height and be done.?
Do you run PSI Springs in your SMX Engines?? Thanks
Why are OHC engines valve spring pressures so low compared to that of OHV engines? The OHC engines rev higher, yet their springs are smaller in diameter and the spring open and closed pressures are MUCH, MUCH lower than OHV engines. What is the physics behind this?
now all you need to do is develop a springless valvetrain like the decuir system for the smx for the ultimate drag and drive.
How do you feel about running 1511 beehives w/600 lift w/ YT roller rockers on an LS7 OEM head ? Some feel running a double would be a safer bet
Got it
Lol dont do what I did and lose 6/24 valve spring seat washers cleaning the head because you forgot to remove them. Cost me an arm and a leg to source oem ones. Id be up for all new springs and matching seats @$500+ if I couldnt locate them.
I shave my valve springs to save weight
Watching this because I saw there was a second one. You can say you're not an engineer and brush off your bad info all you want, but you're still making a video to teach something aren't you? WTF is the purpose if you're going to miss the mark so badly? Title of the video is "understanding valve springs" but the presenter obviously doesn't understand valve springs... It's harmonic resonance, nothing to do with the normal spring pressure and valve float per-se. A single spring is made with a single density and tension, and at it's resonant frequency the metal loses it's "spring" and basically goes soft like spaghetti. An additional spring will have a different resonant frequency that doesn't overlap with the first spring, but adds weight to the assembly and can cause float if used in the wrong application by somebody who learns everything from YT. Bikes rev over 15k and get past this by engineering better single spring designs with better alloys that push that frequency above the operational range of the engine, or just get rid of the spring altogether
@bridges of delusional county Nah, you're explaining it perfectly. It's sometimes a pain in the ass to get the cam to sit right on the tip of the lobe, especially if you have super stiff springs and an aggressive cam, but there's always a couple degrees of dwell it should be able to sit on. It's usually pretty easy to find that sweet spot if you have the appropriate cam turning tool with a long enough handle, but if you're forced to go at it with a wrench I usually have the best luck getting it close, then giving it a few light bumps with the heel of my hand. It's not TOO hard if you have a good box end wrench that fits nice and snug. And make sure that you don't loosen the pulley bolt. If I'm using a wrench I always come at it clockwise so I don't have to worry about breaking loose the pulley bolt. Check your FSM, there might be a hole or a slot somewhere on the cam that will hold it in the EXACT spot it needs to be, then you can just slide an appropriately sized punch (or whatever it calls for) in there to catch the hole.
Edit: I didn't even answer your question in all that. lol. Yes, it's perfectly normal, and no, you shouldn't be able to stop it anywhere you want. Any time you're on the opening or closing ramp of the cam the valve spring is going to be fighting you, trying to close the valve and get back down onto the base of the cam. Hope my explanation helps. Be patient with it. It can be done, just don't let it beat you or get you flustered.
@bridges of delusional county Don't quote me on this, but it MIGHT be just the way the lobes on your engine are phased. You should be able to tell if that's the cause by just looking at it and watching how it works though. Remember, any time you put a valve in a drill, wrap the tip in electrical tape to protect it. A dial indicator can be picked up for pretty cheap, but you can tell if it's slightly bent by lapping it in and looking at the wear pattern. There's no "natural" runout though. Bent is bent. If you need a cheap way to test if the springs are fatigued, I made my own DIY setup with a cheap fish scale, some scrap metal, and 10 minutes with my welder. Stiff lifters? As in rockers? I'd be checking for wear on the shaft then, or checking if it's bent. As far as GM engine design, I've never seen anything come from any American manufacturer that was worth it's weight in mud. No offense meant. I grew up at my Dad's knee, who was a big smallblock guy. When I got older I started messing with foreign stuff and stopped ignoring the massive issues domestic stuff has. If you think active cams are confusing, you should come have a look at the insides of a Ducati. ;) Damn Italians think "complex" is a challenge with their Desmo, they're screwing the pooch with their transition to CAN, and it's impossible to find the English entries in the manual. Which brings me back to the best advice I can give you. You need a factory service manual. The factory one, from GM. Not a Haynes, or a Chilton, or any other crap, waste of money gimmick. Without one there's nothing stopping you from wasting your time chasing your tail.
This is Steve Morris. He knows his stuff plenty well
@@nsboost Obviously not
Hey Mikael, do you have some question or some amazing wisdom you want to impart on Steve and the rest of us. Because from what you wrote here, and on some of his other videos is “errrrr American V8 is crap! My bike spin to 15k rpm!! errrr” If you knew more than just how high your Ducati revs you would know that a cross plane crank v8 with OHV heads and the cam in block design will never rev past 8500rpm. So for them resonant frequency and valve harmonics aren’t that important, even more so if it’s a drag race application. For them most important is good seat pressure, high lift with no bind, eliminating valve float, the valves are holding back tremendous amounts of manifold pressure if it’s a turbo or supercharged engine, and it usually is. Did you know that it takes 170hp just to spin the “top fuel” dragster supercharger! So maybe your Ducati could spin it? What you think?
This video tell you nothing! Just a load of waffle.