I remember having made a comment on this matter a few months ago (mid 2022 perhaps) about Alfa looking for partners - French car manufacturers, PSA and regie Renault as they were known at the tlme - to share the development costs and to counter Bosch's monopoly at the time. Indeed, the CEM system looked way more advanced than the motronic from Bosch. Another missed opportunity...
You remember well: Alfa Romeo sought to share the system with others to increase volume and bringing down unit costs, and plans were made to use the CEM on Fiat's 2.0 liter twin cam engine for the Argenta, but Fiat's bean counters quickly shut that down.
This was an alternative view to running full amount of cylinders on a very low lean burn effect , rather than cutting out half the cylinders to create a similar effect. I’ve many enthusiasts quoting you could run the Alfa Romeo Montreal on one bank of cylinders only, although I’ve never figured how than worked exactly.
I had never heard of Alfa's CEM development and Alfetta version. Your interesting summary implies that the CEM system functioned well. I recall in the 1970s when, as a (US) soldier, I was interested in an Oldsmobile with diesel V8 that featured a similar system. Luckily I didn't buy one since reports showed it to be quite problematic.
The few cars equipped with the system have indeed proved themselves quite dependable, with several examples still around today in Italy. Yes I've heard that GM's "modular" V8s proved troublesome in period and didn't last long.
Quando abitavo a Bologna da 1976 a 1984, avevo un amico che ha lavorato nel comune. Era appassionato di Alfa con una GT Junior 1600 e un'Alfetta con questa sistema di controllo motore. Mi prestava la macchina quando andò in vacanza (avevo un 126 Fiat, che non era adatto a un gita lunga). Era una macchina davvero interessante e piacevole di guidare. Peccato che non fosse sviluppato, perché era una tecnologia d'avanguardia per il tempo. Grazia per un ricordo del tempo più bello della mia vita!
Grazie a te per condividere questo ricordo personale con me, mi piace sempre leggere delle esperienze e ricordi legati alle vetture che racconto nei video. Si, un vero peccato che il CEM sia stato abbandonato, soprattutto perché si trattava di tecnologia tutta italiana. Difficile da giustificare in termini di costi però, purtroppo, senza fare numeri elevati.
Excellent video. Very interesting. I’m the old guy that bought a new 1974 fiat spider, at the time I looked at the Porsche 914, the triumph, and the Alfa spider. That Alfa Spider in this video sure is beautiful. Thanks for sharing the story behind these beautiful cars.
I always had great passion for Alfa Romeo. I dreamt of a 156 with 2.5 V6 engine as teenager and last autumn I started a beautiful relationship with a Giulietta which shall continue for a very long time. Therefore I have enjoyed every single video of yours 🙏 grazie
Thank you for this video . I own four Alfa Romeo transaxle vehicle includes 1988 Alfa Romeo Milano Gold 2.5 V6 Automatic ZF ( Rare ). Also own an 1987 Alfa 90 2.0 V6 C.E.M. Certified F.I.V.A. that I consider is great vehicle and along with Alfa Milano.
@Roadster Life my dad had non CEM V6 90 in silver when I was a teenager. He's a true hard-core alfisti, the 90 was really ugly. thankfully for my standing at school, my dad got t-boned at an intersection and our next car was a bright red 75 V6 QV. The integrated briefcase from the 90 is still in my parents cellar.
Alfa Romeo was always technically ahead of the competition. Think of Twimcam. Alfa Romeo was one of the first manufacturers to use it. It only became prominent in the 90s after it was adopted by the other car makers.
Thanks Matteo for a well researched topic (again). And besides you writing about it the RUclips video's catch my eye easier. In looking further I found that Alfa released a SAE paper in 1985 about the CEM and they describe even crazier idea's like a V6 with only one bank turbocharged where they could run on just one bank when the turbo was not needed. Never would have digged deeper if you did not highlight the CEM though. Now wondering if you know something about the 33 Hybrid..
Impressive! Fiat should have supported and integrated AR and Lancia enginuity instead of being the great equalizer, but somehow this reminds us of the similar fate of other innovative car makers : Citroen, Cord, Studebaker and NSU !
Innovative automakers do seem to share a sad fate, indeed. Fiat did support Alfa and Lancia, however: after all, both wouldn't have kept existing without Fiat. But the former giant... Just wasn't "giant" enough to fund properly such storied brands.
No, unfortunately, Spica no longer exists. Since it was a wholly owned subsidiary of Alfa Romeo, it was gobbled up by Fiat in 1986 with it. However, Fiat sold it off shortly after to Delphi, which a few years later sold it to TRW. The factory closed down in 2014.
GM had already built more or less the entire run of 1981 Cadillacs (except an already-dwindling number of diesels) with the "V8-6-4" system which quickly developed a reputation for being troublesome and was dropped after that one year. Displacement-on-demand just required more computing power than could be built into a car in the early '80s.
Yes, I'm aware of GM's modular V8s and their problems, and that's why I said in the video that Alfa was "a pioneer" in the technology rather that "the first," which wouldn't have been correct. Alfa did not make many CEM-equipped cars, but those have proven to be very dependable
Am I just cynical in thinking that the increased electrics would just increase the trouble? I remember Alfa electrics in the 70s and 80s..... They used to call Joseph Lucas the Prince of Darkness, but I was never convinced by Jaeger
Thank you. Viva Alfa Romeo.
Another bit of Alfa history brought back into the light. Fabulous as always, Matteo. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it, thank you!
Thanks Mateo! With every video I am learning more and more about the fabulous history of Alfa Romeo.
Glad to hear that, thank you!
Wonderful video shooting and editing! As usual Matteo, information of a golden caliber. Top Banana as always. Mg Mike
Thank you!!!
I remember having made a comment on this matter a few months ago (mid 2022 perhaps) about Alfa looking for partners - French car manufacturers, PSA and regie Renault as they were known at the tlme - to share the development costs and to counter Bosch's monopoly at the time. Indeed, the CEM system looked way more advanced than the motronic from Bosch. Another missed opportunity...
You remember well: Alfa Romeo sought to share the system with others to increase volume and bringing down unit costs, and plans were made to use the CEM on Fiat's 2.0 liter twin cam engine for the Argenta, but Fiat's bean counters quickly shut that down.
This was an alternative view to running full amount of cylinders on a very low lean burn effect , rather than cutting out half the cylinders to create a similar effect. I’ve many enthusiasts quoting you could run the Alfa Romeo Montreal on one bank of cylinders only, although I’ve never figured how than worked exactly.
I've never heard that about the Montreal before, and I have no idea how could that work either!
Very interesting indeed. This is something I thought Lancia would've pioneered first being renowned for innovating engineering.
Yeah, I cannot agree more, but Lancia was bought earlier than Alfa by Fiat,if I am not wrong, so they already lost the "innovation" somehow
Thanks for another informative Alfa Romeo video! 🍀 I cracked up seeing a smoke ring come out of that old tailpipe. 😂 0:36
Glad you enjoyed it, thank you!!!!
Absolutely love these bits of automotive history! Thanks, Matteo. Ciao🙋♂️
Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it!
I had never heard of Alfa's CEM development and Alfetta version. Your interesting summary implies that the CEM system functioned well. I recall in the 1970s when, as a (US) soldier, I was interested in an Oldsmobile with diesel V8 that featured a similar system. Luckily I didn't buy one since reports showed it to be quite problematic.
The few cars equipped with the system have indeed proved themselves quite dependable, with several examples still around today in Italy. Yes I've heard that GM's "modular" V8s proved troublesome in period and didn't last long.
Quando abitavo a Bologna da 1976 a 1984, avevo un amico che ha lavorato nel comune. Era appassionato di Alfa con una GT Junior 1600 e un'Alfetta con questa sistema di controllo motore. Mi prestava la macchina quando andò in vacanza (avevo un 126 Fiat, che non era adatto a un gita lunga). Era una macchina davvero interessante e piacevole di guidare. Peccato che non fosse sviluppato, perché era una tecnologia d'avanguardia per il tempo. Grazia per un ricordo del tempo più bello della mia vita!
Grazie a te per condividere questo ricordo personale con me, mi piace sempre leggere delle esperienze e ricordi legati alle vetture che racconto nei video. Si, un vero peccato che il CEM sia stato abbandonato, soprattutto perché si trattava di tecnologia tutta italiana. Difficile da giustificare in termini di costi però, purtroppo, senza fare numeri elevati.
Excellent video. Very interesting. I’m the old guy that bought a new 1974 fiat spider, at the time I looked at the Porsche 914, the triumph, and the Alfa spider. That Alfa Spider in this video sure is beautiful. Thanks for sharing the story behind these beautiful cars.
Thank you! How long did you keep that Spider? Did you enjoy it?
@@Matteo_Licata - only a couple of years, I got married and needed more room. I moved onto a 128 3p.
@@Matteo_Licata - sorry didn't noticed the second part of the question. I absolutely loved it.
I always had great passion for Alfa Romeo. I dreamt of a 156 with 2.5 V6 engine as teenager and last autumn I started a beautiful relationship with a Giulietta which shall continue for a very long time. Therefore I have enjoyed every single video of yours 🙏 grazie
Thank you for this video . I own four Alfa Romeo transaxle vehicle includes 1988 Alfa Romeo Milano Gold 2.5 V6 Automatic ZF ( Rare ). Also own an 1987 Alfa 90 2.0 V6 C.E.M. Certified F.I.V.A. that I consider is great vehicle and along with Alfa Milano.
You own a couple of very rare and interesting Alfas indeed, congratulations! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Fascinating!
Much awaited, much appreciated excellent insights from you as usual.
Glad to hear it, thank you!
@Roadster Life my dad had non CEM V6 90 in silver when I was a teenager.
He's a true hard-core alfisti, the 90 was really ugly.
thankfully for my standing at school, my dad got t-boned at an intersection and our next car was a bright red 75 V6 QV.
The integrated briefcase from the 90 is still in my parents cellar.
Fascinating, as always. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it, thank you!
Lo mejor de estos coches... su sonido!!!❤
Excellent video!
Thank you! Cheers!
It breaks my heart seeing how low Alfa has fallen now days. Mille Grazie FIAT. :/
Grazie mille* 😉
Well, they make a 500+ HP super saloon and SUV that are among the best the world has to offer. Things could have gotten much worse than that!
Alfa Romeo was always technically ahead of the competition. Think of Twimcam. Alfa Romeo was one of the first manufacturers to use it. It only became prominent in the 90s after it was adopted by the other car makers.
Thanks Matteo for a well researched topic (again). And besides you writing about it the RUclips video's catch my eye easier. In looking further I found that Alfa released a SAE paper in 1985 about the CEM and they describe even crazier idea's like a V6 with only one bank turbocharged where they could run on just one bank when the turbo was not needed. Never would have digged deeper if you did not highlight the CEM though. Now wondering if you know something about the 33 Hybrid..
Thank you! I haven't yet tackled the hybrid 33 in a standalone video, but it does get a mention in this one: ruclips.net/video/AWvkBHNx5Cc/видео.html
Too bad this din't go anywhere...
I would have thought that Alfa simply had a throttle linkage that simply ran out of sync. until the throttle pedal was convincingly pressed.
Bel mini documentario come al solito! Che roba è quell'auto da corsa a 2:34 ?
Grazie! Quella è la SE048, progettata per il Gruppo C nel 1987-88 ma che non corse mai.
@@Matteo_Licata grazie a te Matteo :)
Alfisti persempre 🍀👍
Impressive! Fiat should have supported and integrated AR and Lancia enginuity instead of being the great equalizer, but somehow this reminds us of the similar fate of other innovative car makers : Citroen, Cord, Studebaker and NSU !
Innovative automakers do seem to share a sad fate, indeed. Fiat did support Alfa and Lancia, however: after all, both wouldn't have kept existing without Fiat. But the former giant... Just wasn't "giant" enough to fund properly such storied brands.
A pioneer in Cylinder deactivation? ...What could go wrong ?..😄Many things as it turned out.
Matteo, what happen to Spica nowadays? Does it still make fuel injection system components?
No, unfortunately, Spica no longer exists. Since it was a wholly owned subsidiary of Alfa Romeo, it was gobbled up by Fiat in 1986 with it. However, Fiat sold it off shortly after to Delphi, which a few years later sold it to TRW. The factory closed down in 2014.
AR way 100 years ahead of completion and it ‘s still is today
GM had already built more or less the entire run of 1981 Cadillacs (except an already-dwindling number of diesels) with the "V8-6-4" system which quickly developed a reputation for being troublesome and was dropped after that one year. Displacement-on-demand just required more computing power than could be built into a car in the early '80s.
Yes, I'm aware of GM's modular V8s and their problems, and that's why I said in the video that Alfa was "a pioneer" in the technology rather that "the first," which wouldn't have been correct. Alfa did not make many CEM-equipped cars, but those have proven to be very dependable
My Fiat used to run on three cylinders 🥁
Cadillac had it in 1981. actually some weird brand also had it in 1905
I know about the '81 Cadillacs, and that's why in the video I say Alfa was "a pioneer," rather than "the first."
@@Matteo_Licata ah i see i must ve missed that part
Am I just cynical in thinking that the increased electrics would just increase the trouble? I remember Alfa electrics in the 70s and 80s..... They used to call Joseph Lucas the Prince of Darkness, but I was never convinced by Jaeger
Maybe a bit too far ahead of its time now it would be valuable for the environment
Italians came so close...
😎😎😎😎😘😘
Another amazing italian automotive story, yet forgotten..
💚🤍❤️