CarVertical: The History Checking Service Use this link or code "JAYEMM" for a discount! www.carvertical.com/gb/landing/v3?b=1e4c9523&a=JayEmm&voucher=jayemm&chan=jayemm
The reason that ALFA could never compete will BMW in the Uk is mainly due to the fact that there was a lot of BMW Dealers and Service Centres for BMWs. Think company cars and fleet hire etc. Alfa's are just too Niche of a vehicle to compete with BMWs range.
One of the lead engineers of the Montezemolo Ferraris (Ugolini) had worked on the 164 since short after its inception. He was tasked with perfecting the chassis by finite elements analysis at a facility in Paris, and when the study was done the stiffness was almost double that of the closest competition, more than double that of an hatchback Then in 1983 the styling concept was overthrown on favour of Pininfarina's proposal, and the monocoque had to be adapted to the new looks. So he stepped in and with just 4 kilos of reinforcements he made his calculations real and gifted the 164 with 120'000 kgm ad. Soon after that Fiat Auto Group bought Alfa, at a project briefing this torsional stiffness value was revealed to Fiat engineers, who accused Alfa of having made this result up because the Fiat the Lancia and the Saab only scored 70'000. At the end the Fiat Group saloons were mandated to be at least 100'000 rigid
As an ex Fiat Croma owner I can attest how poor the torsional rigidity was for that car. The tailgate was so floppy I literally thought it would disintegrate in my hands.
As an ex Saab 9000 owner I can confirm the floppiness of that car too. Jack up one corner to change a wheel and the corresponding door barely opens, and definitely doesn't close again.
164 is the first Alfa Romeo model I saw as a schoolboy in 1996, it looked like something else. I still own a 24V 164 since 2012 here in Sri Lanka. Maintenance and upkeep are getting expensive by the day, but it is a fantastic car to have. Thank you for the video, James.
Hey machan I'm from Sri Lanka too! Saw a 164 flyby in marine drive recently. You a brave man for maintaining one in lanka. There was an autolanka forum member by the name of VVT-i who had a V6 164. Wonder if its you! I myself drive a Peugeot 406.
One of my all time favourite cars ever owned. The Busso V6 is one of the greatest engines ever made. Mine was serviced by an ex Alfa touring car team mechanic and he was able to change the rev limiter from somewhere in the 7,000s up to 8,500rpm. Driving through Dartford tunnel with 8,000 revs, that was tingling moments, really was. Mine was all black on the outside and black interior. So when discussing the room in the boot, it is gauged on the number of bodies you can get in there, it was that sinister. As to parts, yep. Even when relatively new, the gearbox went while within warranty. It took six weeks for a gearbox to be sent over from Italy and cost them over five grand. Apart from that it was very reliable. The gearstick did come out in my hand once, while on the M25. But it just slotted back in and never caused issue again. Comedy moment, I had a warning light on the dash. The warning lights are in a long bar under the gauges. I checked the owners manual and couldn't tell what it was. I took it to the main Alfa dealer. They couldn't work out what it was either and offered to just take the bulb out of the warning light.
@@ArmySigs Thr mechanic had been recommended to me by one of the people at the Alfa Owners club of GB. Seeing that he was far more capable than the main dealer, apart from knowing his stamps on the service book were higher valued than a dealer stamp, I left everything to him he was that good. Alas it was back in the 90s and some stupid person crashed their Ford Ka into it wrecking both. And that ended my 164 ownership.
That shape! The perfectly proportioned saloon wrapped around a sensational V6 engine and very competent chassis. I loved mine and was very VERY sad when I had to move on from it.
Back in '94/'95, I worked for Hewlett Packard in Bristol. There was some sort of company car tax swindle whereby the management made their cars available as "pool cars". One day, I got lucky, and got handed the keys of a shiny red Twin Spark. Two additional points: the 164 was the absolute dream car of my sister's husband, and the day I got the car was, coincidentally, his birthday... So after I'd done my business, I drove round to his house, parked in front, and banged on his door. "Happy birthday!" I said, dangling the keys. I didn't let him drive it, despite him begging quite pathetically, but I did take him for an extended sortie down the back roads.
I will never forget 1989 when the original 3.0 V6 manual car came out. The torque steer was ridiculous but the whole car was intensely happy-making and the engine divine. My first was only a short term loan but a friend later had one of her own which she and I both adored
Yes, the first cars with the higher located engine were very prone to torque steer, my old man had one and used to say when he wanted to overtake he didn't have to steer he just booted it and the car moved to the right on it's own!
@@aHumanCookiee I hope it's with you for a long time to come. My mum still reminisces about watching the rear squat slightly under acceleration as he'd set off for work. Such a fantastic shape.
My dad had a 1996 2.0 TwinSpark Super Lusso in black as a company car back in the day. It was an incredibly special car, full of soul, passion and flair! It was reliable, well built and looked like something 4 times it's cost. As a teenager at the time I would drool over the Cloverleaf version which to this day I think still looks like a four door Ferrari. Chuffed that you found one to review James!
The Twin Spark is often overlooked, but was a remarkably capable car and so much lighter than the V6 that it was more fun to throw about the lanes. I had both and I viewed them as different cars. The V6 was a high speed cruiser that was still quick on the steering. It's the only car my kids ever told me off for selling.
I saw a Rosso example in Tunbridge Wells a week or so ago. It took be back to my teens, when the QV was the stuff of dreams. I remember the rave reviews in Autocar and other print media too. That beautiful 24-valve engine, the spaceship interior that has aged fantastically well. What a car.
I have a 1996 TS Super I bought as a neglected non runner and am slowly bringing back to life. Surprisingly rust free car in a good spec with ABS, Aircon etc. I chose the twin spark as no belts to worry about and the last iteration of the classic Alfa twin cam.
Yes, it needed a fuel pump to get it running which I managed to buy without issue. Once it ran the alternator showed up as not good and I found a replacement along with all the belts. Next is suspension etc but all seems to be available. Amazingly for a car that has stood all the electronics work other than the sunroof.
NOT surprisingly rust free, in fact 75, 164 have never suffered from it, at least not more than the competition. That period was already over, but the Vulgate remained
The sound of this engine is how Subarus sound on TV show Road Wars lol From previous Busso ownership I can confirm to avoid straight through exhausts and to focus more on the intake. Carbon air boxes sound incredibly good and Ferrari throttle body’s can be made to fit. Check RUclips for the best V6 noises on any road car with this set up 👍 Jay, you need to try a 2.5 in a 156 - it’s the sweetest 24v Busso imo
The 164 QV 24V must be up there with the best cars I've ever owned, I've had 3 of them and they are just amazing, even the 24V Super gives you the same feeling. Awesome cars, great review James
The 164 is a special one. Missing so much my dad's late '98 2.0 Twin Spark. That engine also has a glorious sound, you can hear the intake inside so well.
My late Father had 2 of these cars, the first was bought as a donor car for the 3.0 24v V6 to go into a Lancia Stratos kit car he was building, but while using it until the engine was required he fell in love with the car and went out and bought another that had better specs such as the leather seats and sunroof. The part at 6:47 brings back memories of when we opened the roof one morning only to find it wouldn’t close just moments later, as great as 80s/90s Alfa’s were, their electrics seemed to have a mind of their own.
Mine locked all its doors with the engine running in a rainstorm when I was about to take a friend to the airport 😅.. I had to bust in one of the small triangular windows to get in.
I had a 3litre V6 Lusso in deep green . Ran for 3 years from 30,000 to 90,000 miles and wholly reliable . My son’s still remember and comment on just what a great car it was.
Oh my god! I so nearly bought a 164 Cloverleaf back in the mid-90s. It wouldn't have been at all sensible, but I just really really wanted it. The one that got away...
I do love an old Alfa...my first car in the mid 90`s in South Africa was a 1983 1.5L Alfa Sud "Superhatch", such a fun, quirky and temperamental little car...drove it for 3 years and loved every minute of my time with her...
I've been watching for around a year how and I finally have to ask..... how does this guy make so many awesome videos on this many cool cars....? I see JayEmm's videos pop up in my regular youtube feed and assume "oh this must be from a couple years ago, how did I miss this cool car?" then realize it just came out a few hours ago.
@JayEmmOnCars A shame you're not in Australia. If you ever visit, I have 4 classic Alfa's you should try. I had 2 more over the years but mistakenly moved them on😢.
Had an Alfa and loved it. She didn't love me back and nor did my bank manager. When I sold it I wondered how long it would take me to forget how she hoovered up all my savings + nearly sent me to the poor house. Here I am, looking at Alfas again .. a decade later
Great job as usual Jay.... Always enjoy your reviews. I quite like your approach to the subject, as opposed to guys who ONLY review new luxury cars & barely drive them at all in a real live situation. Keep up the good work mate. Quite informative as well...
Great video, memories of the non qv version I had back in the day and it’s foibles- if parked on a slope would empty it’s washer bottle through the headlight washers! Loved it and remains one of a few cars I wish I hadn’t sold.
Loved this! I own a 164 for nearly 15 years now. Its a TwinSpark which is a bit lighter, nimble and has less torque steer. Suspension and exhaust are all new but original parts and it is such a fantastic car to drive and hear. Also have a AlfaSud and it resembles how great it handles. Dont miss rearwheeldrive on it but get why purists are put off by it.. untill they drive it. Despite slow sales the 164 was actually delivering a good profit for Alfa, just when FIAT took charge. Only the 156 has since been such a success.
I know this video is a few months old but seeing this really solidified my want for this car, and I went and got one! Thanks for inspiring me to finally do it, and, after about 6,000 miles of road trip in it both to get it home and show it off to some friends, I have to say it’s my favorite car I’ve ever owned, including C4 Corvette, BMW Z4 3.0Si, Mazda RX-7 FB and FD, a number of classic British and American sports/muscle cars, and even a Jaguar XJS, among some other things. I never really believed that Italian cars had that magic that people describe, but this being my first experience with a vintage one, I finally get it! Thanks so much Jay, I hope you can get your hands on more of these weird older cars that never get enough attention.
Thanks for this my first Alfa was a 164 V6 from 1989 (bought in 1993 with on 150.000 km on the clock but probably more, shady dealer) Would have liked a LSD and airco. On the motorway it was pretty fast did 230 km/h but could maintain speeds of 150/160 km/h (~ 100 mph) easily. Only thing that rusted were the wing mirrors holders (aluminium extrusion) It had a cloth interior, still nice and the backseat didn't fold down that was a bit of nuisance at Ikea.
Owned 3 of these over the years. Always red as the QV colours were limited. That car has the optional Recaro interior unless it was retrofitted which some were. The servicing needs an independent specialist and they can be ruinously expensive to put right if you get a bad one. They are an absolute joy to drive and surprisingly nimble. My last one maxed out by pulling 7000 rpm in 5th and showing 160mph on the speedo. They were booked at 152mph top end. The adaptive damping is a common fail and is expensive to fix as is the digital readout for the climate control. There was a 4WD version with more power and a Getrag 6sp box but they were quite fragile and not many built (all LHD). It was badged the Q4 and is completely different to the standard QV. (Please note James)
I just agree about all the details that you mentioned. A wonderful machine. I never had the 164, but would love to. Still my favorite Alfas are: the 75, Spider (the 4th gen) and 33 from the 90s. :) There are also others, but these are my favorites. In regards to the 164, I would go for the 3.0 V6 and in black. :) Drop by mate, you may like my content. :)
I loved mine,a 3.0 Super Lusso that had a 4 valve Cloverleaf engine in it. your review is a realistic one. Even though front drive, I managed to spin mine once, caught the slide but was pointing at a lampost so ended up letting it go all the way round!
I had two 164TS and my third was a beautiful QV. I bought it in 2001 and ran it for two years. It was the best car I’ve ever owned. I just didn’t realise how good it was at the time. I loved the shape, it’s tan leather seats, the Busso engine and that dash. Oh the joy of that car, god I wish I still had it. One day, if you could find a good one, they’ll be worth decent money. After that I had three 166’s. A better car in some ways but not as raw. Great video.
The 164 is still one of my all time favourites. I seriously considered one at the time early 90s, but was concerned about the Italian reliability thing lol. They are super scarce today, and very unique.
I had two, the 2 litre QV from new upgrading this to a 3 litre Cloverleaf . I wished I'd kept both . The electrics were a pain for both. You never knew which way the aircon would blow and on the first one the red paint was a slightly different shade on various panels. Both got under my skin. I was persuaded to get the 166 . It just wasn't the same. Thank you for the wonderful memories.
I owned a 91 L with the 190 hp two valve engine. The car was incredible. I miss it still, and this while I own a new Giulia which I also love. Thanks for the great ride in this red one. It makes me think of when I put mine on the track...again, wonderful.
Nice. I had an 1991 QV like this. And the interiour was a proper conolli leather. And the electric suspension did work. And it was noticible. It became a gocart when you pressed it. So much fun. And the memory and everything worked on it. So many good memories of this car.
A friend’s wealthy father has one of these from new in the early 90s; it was dark green and just the most gorgeous thing to behold. It flew through corners easily with no drama ❤️🤍💚
I friend of mine had a V6 164 the same time I had my e38 740i. The Alfa could actually keep up with the Bimmer and both cars looked great next to each other. The plus for the Bimmer was that I almost never had to top off the oil and never had to stop to pick up my brake pads 🤣🤣🤣
Spent the morning on our local Cornish lanes in a little 916 Spider. Not that powerful or expensive but, Alfa really knew how to deliver the sweetest engine note and a whole load of character. The Italians understood fun.
Thanks for this excellent video, Jay - brought back fond memories of my beloved 164 3.0 Lusso which I owned back in the late nineties... From it's sharp-suited Pininfarina good looks, and comfortable black leather interior to its lovely revvy Busso motor, it was a wonderful car to drive - I always reckoned it felt like a big Golf GTI in terms of handling and roadholding. Now I wish I'd never parted with it!
Love the interior, looks fantastic. The centre console with all the buttons looks like an organ, and those air vents and the digital display, how cool.
I had a 1989 one. Loved it. Hot hatch performance and handling and a limo in one package. Driven sensibly the 3litre would return 34mpg ( by sensibly I mean cruising at 80 on the motorway) Comfortable, great engine and commodious , good looking, even Clarkson loved it.
A wonderful machine. Still, would rather pick the 75, but OK, this one would go in black and with the 3.0 V6 engine for me. I just agree about the purpose of this car... it is all about the feel, drive and experience. Something you remember forever if you had ever tried one. The last real Alfa was the 75 for me. It was really something very Italian (in the 80s and 90s). Just remember the handbrake, the electric windows position and the RWD. :) Got my like here. :) Keep going bro.
I'll agree, with the introduction of fwd (ok, the Sud was fwd but in the states we didn't get that) things started to change. The 164 was also the last Alfa to come stateside until the reintroduction of the current models. However calling this a "classic" Alfa seems a stretch. It's a great car, but I'd say the last of the "classic" Alfas was the GTV of '74 which gave way to the Alfetta which became the GTV6 and Milano/75. I've had several of them in 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0 flavor and raced them as well. But I don't consider them "classic" Alfas.
Completely agree, made the same comment when he said that. Fwd platform shared with the Saab 9000 is not the last true Alfa. I had a Milano/75 verde 3L also. The sound and handling were amazing. Rwd, Busso V6, transaxle with on board brakes had such a good weight distribution. Loved that car.
A lot of Alfisti, call 164 ‘big Sud’. When I considered one, without an updated Diff, I was glad I drove it in the wet. The 2 litre twin spark is well worth considering, if many survive. I don’t think you’ve driven an Alfa 75 yet. Great video, good to see nearly 300k subscribers 😀
I remember sitting in one of these in the late 90s & being surprised how lovely the interior was, but I ended up buying a ST24 Mondeo instead , Great Video, as always James
I had two of these, I try to find another one, but they are so rare. It had the turning circle and sportiness of a much smaller car, yet the luxury of a five series. Incredibly nimble.
Fantastic motors. Great soundtrack. Both this and the aforementioned Spider were quite a handful giving it the berries out of a corner with torque steer aplenty. An excellent long distance mile eater even today. I’d entertain another in a heartbeat especially in cloverleaf guise.
Very cool! Really have been making sure to watch your vids once they release! Always thought this was one of the coolest cars ever built. Looks like it was honed from a solid block of metal. I think my next car will be a 2.0l Giulietta Type 116, if I can find one with the dual fog lights and reflectors surrounded by the ribbed fascia on the lower third of the rear end. Hope to see more Alfas, maybe @number27 can hook you up? Also a cool series would be a review of budget friendly rear wheel drive cars to learn performance driving on?! Keep up the great work JayEmm!
I loved these back in the day, and as usual I went over board with them. I think at one point I had 3 12v Cloverleafs and 2 24V Leafs, at the same time, might have been the other way round. Can remember the cambelt going on one of the 24vs in Peterborough, on my way to an Autocar trackday. Still made it to the track, got towed back to Torquay on a rigid bar in the rain, had the top end rebuilt and when it was started up it had dinged the bottom end as well. 😢
Lovely stuff, had an M plate in the same red. Was great for a front driver. The only downer was the wheels it had 3 sets in 3 years as the beautiful split rim allen keys melted on the rims like snot in the winter ! Great engine and crackle 😊
I had a 1993 164 24V Super, and adored it! My dad was inspired to buy a 1993 164 QV 24V with a Remus back box and it is to this day the best sounding 6 cylinder engine I have experienced (including owning a Giulia Quadrifoglio)
What a car!! 😍 Many years ago I had a 164 2,0 Super - and even with the smaller engine this was a real gem! Instead of leather mine had dark green velour seats and door cards and wooden stearing wheel and shiftknob (exterior colour was anthracite metallic) - may sound weird but it was utterly beautiful 😍 One of the best cars I ever had - and I had a lot of Alfas in my life! The quality of the 164 was on a different level - such a shame they didn't sell more of them!
One of my old primary school teachers had one of these. Can't remember the version but always thought it was really cool. Don't think I've ever seen another. Hope you're ok Mr Sweeney, where ever you are.
What a great channel. The new cars just don't have poke anymore. All looks the same. All boring. I love the lot of old cars reviewed here, and the fact that Jay can just give his honest opinion. O. And so refreshing to have an oak who does not fake that typical plastic presenter laugh all the time.
I owned one of the standard v6 versions when they first came out and it was a brilliant car. It might have been front wheel drive but it drove beautifully, great road holding and handling. All in all a very enjoyable experience. The real standout was the engine it looked great with the chromed pipes but the sound was sexy when you revved it.
Loved this piece! I always remember my dad having the choice back in early 90s when deciding upon a company car.. Alfa 164 QV or MB 300E or BMW 525i.. he chose the Merc… I was gutted.. the 300E was brilliant though.. until I wrote it off..
Nono… I can’t believe it… nope…. WHAT THE!!??? I absolutely love this one! I wish I will have a q4 version Gorgeous car! I was searching vids about this car, didn’t expect you to make a video about it… thanks a lot !!!
I own a Peugeot 605 which has somewhat similar design apart from the front and rear treatment, which i have to say atleast for the rear, the Alfa did it better. I especially love the side streak that both the 605 and the 164 have. I once had the chance to park my 605 next to a 164 and i found out they're about the same size too.
I've owned 3 164 cars, including a red manual QV nearly identical to the one in this video, loved them all! I remember that the seat leather was some of the very best I'd ever seen, even to this day. The handling was spirited and pleasureful, notwithstanding the FWD, power enough.
alfa romeo even had a V 10 engine in the 164 prototype (it is still visible @ the alfa romeo museum. in the eu they had a 4wheel drive version and a V 6 turbo 2litre
My brother in law had a couple of them and raced a busso v6 164 in the auto italia championship, also my mum had a metallic green 2.0 T.spark. Such good memories of these cars
So refreshing to hear you like the 155 James. I've had two, a 1.8 & 2.0. Both 1996 widebodies. Unfortunately, these cars always seem to be overlooked. 🤷
Sorry, this was the first non-ALFA, I would say the 75 was the last, (excluding specials like 4C/8C), but they are still very good fun and look awesome
Love the 164 but agree the 75 (and to lesser extent the 33) lay a better claim to being ‘last true alfa’. Transaxle rear with inboard discs carried over from earlier Giulia and Giulietta is bespoke alfa engineering.
I've owned three 24v valve versions of the 164, all manual transmissions, and they truly are sporting executive sedans, surprisingly fun to drive. The FWD torque is best handled by inserting a later Q2 or Quaife LSD. Sure footed and well handling, you don't feel like you're in a big car, since the false firewall in the engine bay draws the passengers closer to the front windshield. There's no dash to really speak of. The Busso sits low, and so the cowl is also such, giving quite the expansive view forward. My only true complaint from ownership and trying to repair things is that it is a very tight engine bay, and everything is overly complicated. Nothing is straight forward to repair, in fact it can be down right frustrating. Such that a group of local Alfisti often refer to our 164s as 1-sh*tty-fours. They are lovely, have aged well, and when sorted, are damn dependable. I currently have a 1995 164Q - last year Alfa was in the states (before their recent return).
I had one as a company car. Just one word summed it up really.... the purr of that 3litre. Considering I drove 70miles a day to get to work it was effortless....thanks for the memories Alfa Wow!!!!! 🙂
CarVertical: The History Checking Service
Use this link or code "JAYEMM" for a discount!
www.carvertical.com/gb/landing/v3?b=1e4c9523&a=JayEmm&voucher=jayemm&chan=jayemm
The reason that ALFA could never compete will BMW in the Uk is mainly due to the fact that there was a lot of BMW Dealers and Service Centres for BMWs. Think company cars and fleet hire etc. Alfa's are just too Niche of a vehicle to compete with BMWs range.
12:27 what's the door closing to do with mileage? do you usually open and close doors while you driving?
@@serz1885 it's the sound of quality
11:30 60MPH? White corresponding to MPH and yellow KMH or am I seeing this wrong? :P
@@misterdog7 No ,you’re not . Probably needs reading glasses.
One of the lead engineers of the Montezemolo Ferraris (Ugolini) had worked on the 164 since short after its inception. He was tasked with perfecting the chassis by finite elements analysis at a facility in Paris, and when the study was done the stiffness was almost double that of the closest competition, more than double that of an hatchback
Then in 1983 the styling concept was overthrown on favour of Pininfarina's proposal, and the monocoque had to be adapted to the new looks.
So he stepped in and with just 4 kilos of reinforcements he made his calculations real and gifted the 164 with 120'000 kgm
ad.
Soon after that Fiat Auto Group bought Alfa, at a project briefing this torsional stiffness value was revealed to Fiat engineers, who accused Alfa of having made this result up because the Fiat the Lancia and the Saab only scored 70'000. At the end the Fiat Group saloons were mandated to be at least 100'000 rigid
A truly brilliant man.
who cares. All Alfas are utterly unreliable piles of junk.
As an ex Fiat Croma owner I can attest how poor the torsional rigidity was for that car. The tailgate was so floppy I literally thought it would disintegrate in my hands.
As an ex Saab 9000 owner I can confirm the floppiness of that car too. Jack up one corner to change a wheel and the corresponding door barely opens, and definitely doesn't close again.
You can not find these cars easily, a regular 164 is hard to find but a v6 or the qv are rare
A friend of mine at Primary School when I was 12 - his Dad had one of these, he was an optometrist. Really cool guy.
I would have to have been that persons friend or acquaintance. Molto bellow 🤌
I misread that as "optimist," and said to myself, well, quite, it's an Alfa after all.
@@lqr824
That's exactly what I read on a quick pass😅😅
Seamore Clearly?
@@lqr824same 😂
164 is the first Alfa Romeo model I saw as a schoolboy in 1996, it looked like something else. I still own a 24V 164 since 2012 here in Sri Lanka. Maintenance and upkeep are getting expensive by the day, but it is a fantastic car to have. Thank you for the video, James.
Dude, you run a 164 in Sri Lanka? That's true love right there
@@ArmySigs thank you, there are actually 2 more V6 ones.
Hey machan I'm from Sri Lanka too! Saw a 164 flyby in marine drive recently. You a brave man for maintaining one in lanka. There was an autolanka forum member by the name of VVT-i who had a V6 164. Wonder if its you! I myself drive a Peugeot 406.
@@ridhwanramzi4773I bought it from VVT-I back in 2012. I have moved to Kandy. I have a 33 as well.
406 is a nice car, D9 I guess?
That 164 must be a rare sight over there.
The coolest car you have driven this year ! This car should only be parked in a freezer ! Awesome. ❤
One of my all time favourite cars ever owned.
The Busso V6 is one of the greatest engines ever made. Mine was serviced by an ex Alfa touring car team mechanic and he was able to change the rev limiter from somewhere in the 7,000s up to 8,500rpm. Driving through Dartford tunnel with 8,000 revs, that was tingling moments, really was.
Mine was all black on the outside and black interior. So when discussing the room in the boot, it is gauged on the number of bodies you can get in there, it was that sinister.
As to parts, yep. Even when relatively new, the gearbox went while within warranty. It took six weeks for a gearbox to be sent over from Italy and cost them over five grand. Apart from that it was very reliable. The gearstick did come out in my hand once, while on the M25. But it just slotted back in and never caused issue again.
Comedy moment, I had a warning light on the dash. The warning lights are in a long bar under the gauges. I checked the owners manual and couldn't tell what it was. I took it to the main Alfa dealer. They couldn't work out what it was either and offered to just take the bulb out of the warning light.
Nice. Did it require any other modifications to run at that rpm without blowing up?
@@ArmySigs Thr mechanic had been recommended to me by one of the people at the Alfa Owners club of GB. Seeing that he was far more capable than the main dealer, apart from knowing his stamps on the service book were higher valued than a dealer stamp, I left everything to him he was that good. Alas it was back in the 90s and some stupid person crashed their Ford Ka into it wrecking both. And that ended my 164 ownership.
'It was very reliable, apart from the gear stick becoming detached from the car while driving....'
Quick note on Sod's law regarding sunroofs and windows. It never invokes on opening. You find out on closing.
Only if it is raining 😀
That shape! The perfectly proportioned saloon wrapped around a sensational V6 engine and very competent chassis. I loved mine and was very VERY sad when I had to move on from it.
Back in '94/'95, I worked for Hewlett Packard in Bristol. There was some sort of company car tax swindle whereby the management made their cars available as "pool cars". One day, I got lucky, and got handed the keys of a shiny red Twin Spark. Two additional points: the 164 was the absolute dream car of my sister's husband, and the day I got the car was, coincidentally, his birthday...
So after I'd done my business, I drove round to his house, parked in front, and banged on his door. "Happy birthday!" I said, dangling the keys.
I didn't let him drive it, despite him begging quite pathetically, but I did take him for an extended sortie down the back roads.
I will never forget 1989 when the original 3.0 V6 manual car came out. The torque steer was ridiculous but the whole car was intensely happy-making and the engine divine. My first was only a short term loan but a friend later had one of her own which she and I both adored
Yes, the first cars with the higher located engine were very prone to torque steer, my old man had one and used to say when he wanted to overtake he didn't have to steer he just booted it and the car moved to the right on it's own!
@@benzinapaul7416 Mine does that 😆. Mind you, they corner well and it is only near full throttle that they do this.
My dad bought one in '89. Proceeded to put 300k miles on it. We all still miss it.
@@wrapdump I hope mine makes it that far!
@@aHumanCookiee I hope it's with you for a long time to come. My mum still reminisces about watching the rear squat slightly under acceleration as he'd set off for work. Such a fantastic shape.
My dad had a 1996 2.0 TwinSpark Super Lusso in black as a company car back in the day.
It was an incredibly special car, full of soul, passion and flair! It was reliable, well built and looked like something 4 times it's cost. As a teenager at the time I would drool over the Cloverleaf version which to this day I think still looks like a four door Ferrari. Chuffed that you found one to review James!
The Twin Spark is often overlooked, but was a remarkably capable car and so much lighter than the V6 that it was more fun to throw about the lanes. I had both and I viewed them as different cars. The V6 was a high speed cruiser that was still quick on the steering. It's the only car my kids ever told me off for selling.
I saw a Rosso example in Tunbridge Wells a week or so ago. It took be back to my teens, when the QV was the stuff of dreams. I remember the rave reviews in Autocar and other print media too. That beautiful 24-valve engine, the spaceship interior that has aged fantastically well. What a car.
I was obsessed with the design of this car as a kid! It looked so cool and mean in black!
I have a 1996 TS Super I bought as a neglected non runner and am slowly bringing back to life. Surprisingly rust free car in a good spec with ABS, Aircon etc. I chose the twin spark as no belts to worry about and the last iteration of the classic Alfa twin cam.
can you still get any parts?
You bought a dream project car!!! Rust free and can get it running!!
Good luck and hope to hear its driving at some point!
Yes, it needed a fuel pump to get it running which I managed to buy without issue. Once it ran the alternator showed up as not good and I found a replacement along with all the belts. Next is suspension etc but all seems to be available. Amazingly for a car that has stood all the electronics work other than the sunroof.
Le auto non italiane non hanno difetti ?🤔🤷♂️😤🤮
NOT surprisingly rust free, in fact 75, 164 have never suffered from it, at least not more than the competition.
That period was already over, but the Vulgate remained
The sound of this engine is how Subarus sound on TV show Road Wars lol
From previous Busso ownership I can confirm to avoid straight through exhausts and to focus more on the intake. Carbon air boxes sound incredibly good and Ferrari throttle body’s can be made to fit. Check RUclips for the best V6 noises on any road car with this set up 👍
Jay, you need to try a 2.5 in a 156 - it’s the sweetest 24v Busso imo
The 164 QV 24V must be up there with the best cars I've ever owned, I've had 3 of them and they are just amazing, even the 24V Super gives you the same feeling. Awesome cars, great review James
The 164 is a special one. Missing so much my dad's late '98 2.0 Twin Spark. That engine also has a glorious sound, you can hear the intake inside so well.
My late Father had 2 of these cars, the first was bought as a donor car for the 3.0 24v V6 to go into a Lancia Stratos kit car he was building, but while using it until the engine was required he fell in love with the car and went out and bought another that had better specs such as the leather seats and sunroof.
The part at 6:47 brings back memories of when we opened the roof one morning only to find it wouldn’t close just moments later, as great as 80s/90s Alfa’s were, their electrics seemed to have a mind of their own.
Mine locked all its doors with the engine running in a rainstorm when I was about to take a friend to the airport 😅.. I had to bust in one of the small triangular windows to get in.
How could he be late with such fast cars?
I had a 3litre V6 Lusso in deep green .
Ran for 3 years from 30,000 to 90,000 miles and wholly reliable .
My son’s still remember and comment on just what a great car it was.
Oh my god! I so nearly bought a 164 Cloverleaf back in the mid-90s. It wouldn't have been at all sensible, but I just really really wanted it. The one that got away...
I do love an old Alfa...my first car in the mid 90`s in South Africa was a 1983 1.5L Alfa Sud "Superhatch", such a fun, quirky and temperamental little car...drove it for 3 years and loved every minute of my time with her...
I've been watching for around a year how and I finally have to ask..... how does this guy make so many awesome videos on this many cool cars....?
I see JayEmm's videos pop up in my regular youtube feed and assume "oh this must be from a couple years ago, how did I miss this cool car?" then realize it just came out a few hours ago.
Constant work
@JayEmmOnCars A shame you're not in Australia. If you ever visit, I have 4 classic Alfa's you should try. I had 2 more over the years but mistakenly moved them on😢.
Had an Alfa and loved it. She didn't love me back and nor did my bank manager. When I sold it I wondered how long it would take me to forget how she hoovered up all my savings + nearly sent me to the poor house. Here I am, looking at Alfas again .. a decade later
This to me is one of the most perfect looking saloons ever! It looks odd yet so amazing at the same time, in a way very, very few cars do.
I owned one of these recently. It was great!!! But everything was slightly broken. A good short term experience 😂
.. and if you had kept it for much longer, you'd end up with a bunch of loose screws, bolts and pieces worth a trashcan.
Great job as usual Jay....
Always enjoy your reviews. I quite like your approach to the subject, as opposed to guys who ONLY review new luxury cars & barely drive them at all in a real live situation.
Keep up the good work mate. Quite informative as well...
Great video, memories of the non qv version I had back in the day and it’s foibles- if parked on a slope would empty it’s washer bottle through the headlight washers! Loved it and remains one of a few cars I wish I hadn’t sold.
My second Alfa was a 168 12V. Lovely drive, especially on the highway. 164 and the Zender Milano... thats the ultimate 164 combo...
Loved this! I own a 164 for nearly 15 years now. Its a TwinSpark which is a bit lighter, nimble and has less torque steer. Suspension and exhaust are all new but original parts and it is such a fantastic car to drive and hear. Also have a AlfaSud and it resembles how great it handles. Dont miss rearwheeldrive on it but get why purists are put off by it.. untill they drive it. Despite slow sales the 164 was actually delivering a good profit for Alfa, just when FIAT took charge. Only the 156 has since been such a success.
The most timeless and beautiful 4 door sedan.
I know this video is a few months old but seeing this really solidified my want for this car, and I went and got one! Thanks for inspiring me to finally do it, and, after about 6,000 miles of road trip in it both to get it home and show it off to some friends, I have to say it’s my favorite car I’ve ever owned, including C4 Corvette, BMW Z4 3.0Si, Mazda RX-7 FB and FD, a number of classic British and American sports/muscle cars, and even a Jaguar XJS, among some other things. I never really believed that Italian cars had that magic that people describe, but this being my first experience with a vintage one, I finally get it!
Thanks so much Jay, I hope you can get your hands on more of these weird older cars that never get enough attention.
Thanks for this my first Alfa was a 164 V6 from 1989 (bought in 1993 with on 150.000 km on the clock but probably more, shady dealer) Would have liked a LSD and airco. On the motorway it was pretty fast did 230 km/h but could maintain speeds of 150/160 km/h (~ 100 mph) easily. Only thing that rusted were the wing mirrors holders (aluminium extrusion) It had a cloth interior, still nice and the backseat didn't fold down that was a bit of nuisance at Ikea.
Owned 3 of these over the years. Always red as the QV colours were limited. That car has the optional Recaro interior unless it was retrofitted which some were. The servicing needs an independent specialist and they can be ruinously expensive to put right if you get a bad one.
They are an absolute joy to drive and surprisingly nimble. My last one maxed out by pulling 7000 rpm in 5th and showing 160mph on the speedo. They were booked at 152mph top end.
The adaptive damping is a common fail and is expensive to fix as is the digital readout for the climate control.
There was a 4WD version with more power and a Getrag 6sp box but they were quite fragile and not many built (all LHD). It was badged the Q4 and is completely different to the standard QV. (Please note James)
I just agree about all the details that you mentioned. A wonderful machine. I never had the 164, but would love to. Still my favorite Alfas are: the 75, Spider (the 4th gen) and 33 from the 90s. :) There are also others, but these are my favorites. In regards to the 164, I would go for the 3.0 V6 and in black. :) Drop by mate, you may like my content. :)
@RRRRefuelRideRace the QV was only available in red white or black. Recto interior super rare and in tan leather is like hens teeth
@@davidbewick9208 I know. The QV is a wonderful Alfa, but also others were very nice. :)
@@RRRRefuelRideRaceor a 2 liter V6 Turbo
Q4 had the same power as QV, I had one, Torsen diff has its troubles, but car went like a train on fast roads...
I loved mine,a 3.0 Super Lusso that had a 4 valve Cloverleaf engine in it. your review is a realistic one. Even though front drive, I managed to spin mine once, caught the slide but was pointing at a lampost so ended up letting it go all the way round!
These really do get better with age. As a kid I always thought they were ugly. But every year that passes they get that little bit more beautiful.
Has such a cool look. Never had an opportunity to drive one, but I would do with a great pleasure. Thanks for the review.
I had two 164TS and my third was a beautiful QV. I bought it in 2001 and ran it for two years. It was the best car I’ve ever owned. I just didn’t realise how good it was at the time. I loved the shape, it’s tan leather seats, the Busso engine and that dash. Oh the joy of that car, god I wish I still had it. One day, if you could find a good one, they’ll be worth decent money. After that I had three 166’s. A better car in some ways but not as raw. Great video.
The 164 is still one of my all time favourites. I seriously considered one at the time early 90s, but was concerned about the Italian reliability thing lol. They are super scarce today, and very unique.
I had two, the 2 litre QV from new upgrading this to a 3 litre Cloverleaf . I wished I'd kept both . The electrics were a pain for both. You never knew which way the aircon would blow and on the first one the red paint was a slightly different shade on various panels. Both got under my skin. I was persuaded to get the 166 . It just wasn't the same. Thank you for the wonderful memories.
Nice! My father used to have this car and later the Alfa SZ. It was very cool (to have a father like that!) Thanks for your nice video's.
What a lovely bit of kit.
Always good to see something a bit different 👍
I owned a 91 L with the 190 hp two valve engine. The car was incredible. I miss it still, and this while I own a new Giulia which I also love. Thanks for the great ride in this red one. It makes me think of when I put mine on the track...again, wonderful.
Had a dark green 164L with tan leather ... loved that engine and the exhaust note on mine was really throaty. Dashboard had so many buttons lol
Always wanted a 164, had a few 156 t/s V6's and lovex them all.
Great video
Nice. I had an 1991 QV like this. And the interiour was a proper conolli leather. And the electric suspension did work. And it was noticible. It became a gocart when you pressed it. So much fun. And the memory and everything worked on it. So many good memories of this car.
A friend’s wealthy father has one of these from new in the early 90s; it was dark green and just the most gorgeous thing to behold. It flew through corners easily with no drama ❤️🤍💚
I friend of mine had a V6 164 the same time I had my e38 740i. The Alfa could actually keep up with the Bimmer and both cars looked great next to each other. The plus for the Bimmer was that I almost never had to top off the oil and never had to stop to pick up my brake pads 🤣🤣🤣
What a gorgeous car! Thank you for the video!
Love the styling and interior of this car. The bussy engine is fantastic. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
Busso! 😉👍
"Bussy" has a vastly different connotation lmao
Spent the morning on our local Cornish lanes in a little 916 Spider. Not that powerful or expensive but, Alfa really knew how to deliver the sweetest engine note and a whole load of character.
The Italians understood fun.
I drove this at its launch here in Australia. Loved it. Still do.
Fantastic car Jay, and the top notch video and sound sells it. Cheers.
Thanks for this excellent video, Jay - brought back fond memories of my beloved 164 3.0 Lusso which I owned back in the late nineties... From it's sharp-suited Pininfarina good looks, and comfortable black leather interior to its lovely revvy Busso motor, it was a wonderful car to drive - I always reckoned it felt like a big Golf GTI in terms of handling and roadholding. Now I wish I'd never parted with it!
Thanks J, good to see an Alfa again, especially a Busso one! 🙏🙏
Love the interior, looks fantastic. The centre console with all the buttons looks like an organ, and those air vents and the digital display, how cool.
I had a 1989 one. Loved it. Hot hatch performance and handling and a limo in one package. Driven sensibly the 3litre would return 34mpg ( by sensibly I mean cruising at 80 on the motorway) Comfortable, great engine and commodious , good looking, even Clarkson loved it.
A wonderful machine. Still, would rather pick the 75, but OK, this one would go in black and with the 3.0 V6 engine for me. I just agree about the purpose of this car... it is all about the feel, drive and experience. Something you remember forever if you had ever tried one. The last real Alfa was the 75 for me. It was really something very Italian (in the 80s and 90s). Just remember the handbrake, the electric windows position and the RWD. :) Got my like here. :) Keep going bro.
Agree, 164 was already under fiat
I'll agree, with the introduction of fwd (ok, the Sud was fwd but in the states we didn't get that) things started to change. The 164 was also the last Alfa to come stateside until the reintroduction of the current models. However calling this a "classic" Alfa seems a stretch. It's a great car, but I'd say the last of the "classic" Alfas was the GTV of '74 which gave way to the Alfetta which became the GTV6 and Milano/75. I've had several of them in 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0 flavor and raced them as well. But I don't consider them "classic" Alfas.
Completely agree, made the same comment when he said that. Fwd platform shared with the Saab 9000 is not the last true Alfa. I had a Milano/75 verde 3L also. The sound and handling were amazing. Rwd, Busso V6, transaxle with on board brakes had such a good weight distribution. Loved that car.
Always loved the Alfa 164! Another gorgeous and timeless design by Pininfarina IMO. What a great review!!!
A lot of Alfisti, call 164 ‘big Sud’. When I considered one, without an updated Diff, I was glad I drove it in the wet. The 2 litre twin spark is well worth considering, if many survive. I don’t think you’ve driven an Alfa 75 yet. Great video, good to see nearly 300k subscribers 😀
I remember sitting in one of these in the late 90s & being surprised how lovely the interior was, but I ended up buying a ST24 Mondeo instead , Great Video, as always James
Had a 75 twinspark when I was 19,totally unreliable and I absolutely loved it.
We all need more vintage Alfa content
My mates dad had one, he had numerous Alfas in the early 90s.. A beautiful car, I remember drooling over it as a kid
I had two of these, I try to find another one, but they are so rare. It had the turning circle and sportiness of a much smaller car, yet the luxury of a five series. Incredibly nimble.
Fantastic motors. Great soundtrack. Both this and the aforementioned Spider were quite a handful giving it the berries out of a corner with torque steer aplenty. An excellent long distance mile eater even today. I’d entertain another in a heartbeat especially in cloverleaf guise.
Very cool! Really have been making sure to watch your vids once they release! Always thought this was one of the coolest cars ever built. Looks like it was honed from a solid block of metal. I think my next car will be a 2.0l Giulietta Type 116, if I can find one with the dual fog lights and reflectors surrounded by the ribbed fascia on the lower third of the rear end. Hope to see more Alfas, maybe @number27 can hook you up? Also a cool series would be a review of budget friendly rear wheel drive cars to learn performance driving on?! Keep up the great work JayEmm!
I loved my 164. Sounded fantastic and covered the ground very nicely. I wont admit to how fast I used to get down the Keynsham Bypass.
I loved these back in the day, and as usual I went over board with them. I think at one point I had 3 12v Cloverleafs and 2 24V Leafs, at the same time, might have been the other way round. Can remember the cambelt going on one of the 24vs in Peterborough, on my way to an Autocar trackday. Still made it to the track, got towed back to Torquay on a rigid bar in the rain, had the top end rebuilt and when it was started up it had dinged the bottom end as well. 😢
Lovely stuff, had an M plate in the same red. Was great for a front driver. The only downer was the wheels it had 3 sets in 3 years as the beautiful split rim allen keys melted on the rims like snot in the winter ! Great engine and crackle 😊
I had a 1993 164 24V Super, and adored it! My dad was inspired to buy a 1993 164 QV 24V with a Remus back box and it is to this day the best sounding 6 cylinder engine I have experienced (including owning a Giulia Quadrifoglio)
What a car!! 😍 Many years ago I had a 164 2,0 Super - and even with the smaller engine this was a real gem! Instead of leather mine had dark green velour seats and door cards and wooden stearing wheel and shiftknob (exterior colour was anthracite metallic) - may sound weird but it was utterly beautiful 😍 One of the best cars I ever had - and I had a lot of Alfas in my life! The quality of the 164 was on a different level - such a shame they didn't sell more of them!
This car looks incredible and those rims really set it off😎
One of my old primary school teachers had one of these. Can't remember the version but always thought it was really cool. Don't think I've ever seen another.
Hope you're ok Mr Sweeney, where ever you are.
What a great channel. The new cars just don't have poke anymore. All looks the same. All boring. I love the lot of old cars reviewed here, and the fact that Jay can just give his honest opinion.
O. And so refreshing to have an oak who does not fake that typical plastic presenter laugh all the time.
My mate had one of these in black. I remember a spirited ride to watch the BTCC at Brands Hatch in the 90s. Stunning car.😊
Always wanted one back in the day, excellent motor 164, a beast
I owned one of the standard v6 versions when they first came out and it was a brilliant car. It might have been front wheel drive but it drove beautifully, great road holding and handling. All in all a very enjoyable experience. The real standout was the engine it looked great with the chromed pipes but the sound was sexy when you revved it.
Loved this piece! I always remember my dad having the choice back in early 90s when deciding upon a company car.. Alfa 164 QV or MB 300E or BMW 525i.. he chose the Merc… I was gutted.. the 300E was brilliant though.. until I wrote it off..
Great content Happy birthday good fella from the states 🇺🇸
Nono… I can’t believe it… nope…. WHAT THE!!???
I absolutely love this one!
I wish I will have a q4 version
Gorgeous car!
I was searching vids about this car, didn’t expect you to make a video about it… thanks a lot !!!
The Alfa 164. The most beautiful E segment berlina, ever made. Great review.
I own a Peugeot 605 which has somewhat similar design apart from the front and rear treatment, which i have to say atleast for the rear, the Alfa did it better. I especially love the side streak that both the 605 and the 164 have. I once had the chance to park my 605 next to a 164 and i found out they're about the same size too.
Amazingly I have both too, the 605 suspension and steering are very superior, zero torque steer and super suspension.
I've owned 3 164 cars, including a red manual QV nearly identical to the one in this video, loved them all! I remember that the seat leather was some of the very best I'd ever seen, even to this day. The handling was spirited and pleasureful, notwithstanding the FWD, power enough.
3,164 cars? Are you Arthur Daley?
It's a beautiful 39 degree day here in Maine. I'm taking my 91' 164S out for a spin right meow.
Great vid Jay, love the 164 !!
The more I watched the video the more the looks both inside and out grew on me. This is a very cool car!
Great video James. Love the SILVER wheels!
Commenting by waving my hands wildly 👋
Alfa 🥰
alfa romeo even had a V 10 engine in the 164 prototype (it is still visible @ the alfa romeo museum. in the eu they had a 4wheel drive version and a V 6 turbo 2litre
My Dad had 2 of these a 92 K reg 12 valve Alfa red and beige and a 96 24 valve N87 UMO, Alfa red with beige leather. Wonderful car, so emotional.
My brother in law had a couple of them and raced a busso v6 164 in the auto italia championship, also my mum had a metallic green 2.0 T.spark. Such good memories of these cars
One of my dream cars at school, wished my dad had one back in the day 🙌
Thanks for the video and stay safe ✌️.
So refreshing to hear you like the 155 James. I've had two, a 1.8 & 2.0. Both 1996 widebodies. Unfortunately, these cars always seem to be overlooked. 🤷
My first car was a widebody 155 but still think the 164 is much better looking.
Sorry, this was the first non-ALFA, I would say the 75 was the last, (excluding specials like 4C/8C), but they are still very good fun and look awesome
What about the 33?
Love the 164 but agree the 75 (and to lesser extent the 33) lay a better claim to being ‘last true alfa’. Transaxle rear with inboard discs carried over from earlier Giulia and Giulietta is bespoke alfa engineering.
Wonderful! Thanx JayEmm
Oh... and nice shirt... again...
Coar what a lovely Alfa, im personally thinking of getting an Alpha romeo at one point, specifically the 145QV
I've owned three 24v valve versions of the 164, all manual transmissions, and they truly are sporting executive sedans, surprisingly fun to drive. The FWD torque is best handled by inserting a later Q2 or Quaife LSD. Sure footed and well handling, you don't feel like you're in a big car, since the false firewall in the engine bay draws the passengers closer to the front windshield. There's no dash to really speak of. The Busso sits low, and so the cowl is also such, giving quite the expansive view forward. My only true complaint from ownership and trying to repair things is that it is a very tight engine bay, and everything is overly complicated. Nothing is straight forward to repair, in fact it can be down right frustrating. Such that a group of local Alfisti often refer to our 164s as 1-sh*tty-fours. They are lovely, have aged well, and when sorted, are damn dependable. I currently have a 1995 164Q - last year Alfa was in the states (before their recent return).
Great review as always. Would love to see A Montreal on the channel
I had one as a company car. Just one word summed it up really.... the purr of that 3litre. Considering I drove 70miles a day to get to work it was effortless....thanks for the memories Alfa
Wow!!!!! 🙂