C-130 Collides with a Marine Corps Helicopter | TWO Fatal Training Missions
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- Опубликовано: 11 май 2024
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:28 Training Mission
1:17 Surface-Attack Tactcs Mission
1:43 The F-16 and C-130 Return to Pope AFB
2:31 Air Traffic Control
3:17 Confliction between Weebad 03 and Hitman 31
4:04 New Air Traffic Controller
4:32 Collision Course
5:10 Collision
5:43 Crash into the Air Force Base
6:48 Investigation
8:00 Search and Rescue Mission
8:35 Departure from Sacramento
8:56 Warning Area 291
9:30 V38 and V39
10:12 Division (flight of four)
11:54 Assault Training Mission
13:20 Collision and Crash
15:12 Investigation 
Развлечения
My dad flew a lot of hours in the 1705, he even delivered that plane to Air Station Barbers Point back in 1998, he said it was a good plane.
Rest in Peace to all involved 🕊
I can’t get over how much work has gone into this video, how brilliant it is. (God bless those who lost their lives).
@@SteviPantyhose-mt5lmI can not understand your reply. I do my very best not to lie, I really meant what I said…..are you ok?
I had just gotten to Bragg the Monday after Pope. The whole base was moving at 1000mph. When I got to my unit, it was learn quick or go to Leg Land! We had so much to deal with. This was a dark page in the history of aviation, but the 82nd's finest hour when it came to emergency procedures. Even when they had to use civilian vehicles to evac injured paratroopers and ground personnel. Heroes all around.
Good friend of mine was one of the chaplain at Pope who helped deal with the aftermath.
Go get em, Captain America!
@@GrantJohnston-dr9rt Fuck is that supposed to mean, Leg!
@@tacticorememes I wouldn't expect you to understand...... it's called jingoism!
@@GrantJohnston-dr9rt Oooooooooooooh, is this the part I'm supposed to give a shit, Leg?
USCG station was the former McClellan AFB. I was station there for 5 years. May They All Rest In Peace. ✝
Thank you TFC for the levels of perfection you create in your videos
he is great!!
All of this is very tragic. The families of the victims are heartbroken to be sure. I know that I would be.
I agree that the production is brilliant. What I don’t understand is why the DOD report on the second crash which tells us exactly what was done wrong isn’t referenced; rather a couple of sentences are pulled from Wikipedia verbatim and that’s all we get regarding the cause.
It's quicker this way as he tries to push out as many videos as possible without doing thorough investigation.
The US Navy was in charge of air traffic control for Warning Area 291, as well as the San Clemente firing range. Neither the Coast Guard aircraft nor the Marine Corps aircraft were ever notified that the other group existed. Incompetence happened.
As a former Marine Corps aviator, it pains me to watch these, but I feel like I still need to know.
Did you ever operate out of MCAS Beaufort, SC?
@@martianshoes I've flown down there, but I was at MCAS New River my career
@basedandbiased nice i was at cherry point from '09-'13...then hmla 773 in Belle Chasse, LA till I got out in '19
@@MrRobert12882 sweet! 53s?
@@basedandbiasedwhat was vmat 203 and what was vmr1, 46's, when I was at CP...Yankees and cobras at 773
Always good videos,I flew in that c-130 many times,im retired USCG,flew mostly in Alaka out of Kodiak,but this was a sad event.R.I.P and semper Paratus my shipmates
There's a lot of information missing on the 2nd incident. KNUC was conducting CCA's (Carrier Controlled Approach) with F18's during that time. C130 was Radra handoff and switched to KNUC since they had the airspace for CCA's. FACSFAC, SD informed KNUC that C130 is on an active SAR Mission. KNUC Approach vectored to C130 back to the north and went back to ATC agency Pacific. C130 informed Pacfic they need to go back to W291 on active SAR Mission. Radar handoff was conducted back to FACSFAC. FACSFAC issues traffic to the C130 to flight of 4 Helo's enroute to SHOBA and also Helo's to the C130. Controller ask C130 pilot are you familiar SHOBA? C130 pilot replied with Negative. Controller begins giving Lat and Long for the Way points for SHOBA. During this time, when the Controller was reading the Waypoints from the "Cheat Sheet" on the radar console, the aircrafts met.
I just recommended TFC to someone not even 5 minutes ago
Cool
So?.. want a badge?…
And here I am!!
Thanks for letting us all know….🤷🏽♂️
@@Ben-ks5bm😷🧐😌🙃🤔🗣️📢💨💨💨💨💨😌"no just! a🙃BROWNEY!,🥮 POINT"!;😉😂🤣😂🤣😷
I'll make an unsolicited suggestion...If you are going to do reboots and combination of similar accident videos, will you do one on cargo aircraft fire disasters? The two that come to mind are the horrors encountered by the pilots of UPS 6 and Asiana 991, both crashes approximately one year apart and so similar in circumstances with brave flight crews never giving up and doing all they could to get down safely. Both of these crashes and chilling.
The Flight Channel covered the 2010 UPS 6 disaster on 19/1/2018 & Asiana 991 0n 19/6/2018. DYOR.
@@arturo468 DYOReading...I said a combo video where both are featured in the same release. What is it with some people? Get behind a keyboard and they become Mike Tyson.
Readers should re-read, and writers should proof-read. The problem may be ignorance and carelessness, more than anything.
that was the one with the in-flight fire and the pilots doing everything they could to save the plane.@@arturo468
I kinda blame the F-16 pilot because he was still capable of flying and could’ve ejected over a field and not the air base
I'm sure that was his thought as he was falling to the ground, too.
Heads up flying. I would bet the Viper drivers were distracted, and had their eyeballs somewhere else besides scanning the airspace around their aircraft. A C-130 is large and hard to miss. I think if the Viper had better SA none of this would have happened.
Timely AND accurate information. A key to success!
It's a Reuoload ! First published on 2021/09/23
I can't understand how these crashes happen. Both the Viper and Cobra's have really good outside visibly, weather clear and in the CG C-130's case, she would have had all her lights on since she was on a SAR mission . How did they not see the other AC's
Movement attracts attention. Aircraft on a collision course remain on a relative bearing to each other therefore the other aircraft remains static in view and therefore less likely to be noticed..
@@kevinnorthfield5097 That's very possible
The F-16 was doing a simulated flame-out approach. AoA was much higher than in video - not good vis straight ahead.
I'm not sure whether having the night vision goggles on actually would have helped the Cobra pilot see the Coastguard aircraft better or not, given that the sun was still above the horizon?
The night vision googles would seriously reduce the pilot's vision in all but limited light conditions. As the time was 1910 when the accident occurred, there was light out, and the night vision googles drastically reduced the pilot's vision. Additionally, the Cobra was rising into the C130's path. The C130 cannot see below the cockpit (imagine trying to see something written under your chin) and the C130 was coming from the 5 o'clock position (behind and above) the Cobra. There is no way the C130 would have seen the Cobra and the Cobra pilots would have only seen the C130 if they were looking up and over their right shoulder.
Seems like I saw this same video before..... But only uploaded 1 hour ago?
My guess is that the controllers in the second case were at fault. If memory serves me, we used to communicate with BEAVER (navy controlers) while flying missions off Southern California.
I guess the conscience and guilt part took over the F 16 pilot after the accident. The what if scenario 😢
This is a report. I'm a huge fan of this channel. Thanks.
Yeah. But did they find the boat?
Maybe later after cleaning up the disaster of the crash.😢
They're still looking...
Heyyyy. What do you know? You posted!! I was just thinking about the C-130 crash wow❤❤. Its crazy on that works. Anyways i love your videos!
Very thorough video as always
I am a USCG aviator and knew AMC John Seidman when he an I were stationed as non-rates on USCG WMEC Steadfast, as junior Petty Officers at A/S Clearwater, FL and when I was RIC of RUITOFF Sacramento (AVTC) and he was maintenance chief at A/S Sacramento, CA. Lost a dear comrade!
IMHO the F-16 pilot bears full responsibility for all loss of lives on the ground. Yes, the ATC's may not have given accurate information but the burden still falls upon the pilot to ultimately keep the safe control of his plane and to perform the maneuvers to keep him, his crew, and others in safety. This means that even if the maneuvering of his aircraft is in opposition as to what he has been told to do from ATC.
How in the hell did he not see the C-130 in front of him?
That is a pilot that was not paying proper attention to the area outside of his own cockpit.
shit happens
FYI the engine noise is way too low! Actually it's the prop/wing noise. I built those engines and flew in P3s and on one C130 to Rota (rip off the americans) from Maine. Forever flight! The P3 sighs along. Sweet and subtle. The C130 is a full on audio assault. Can't imagine anyone not hearing that coming.
And the C130 has poor visibility above and below.
True story! I lived near an AFB in college and those C-130s were going at all hours.
Neither the missing man, David Jines nor his boat were ever found...
Thank you I was wondering about that!
Thanks Srgt Barnes
Shooting an SFO approach means a high AOA (not depicted in the video) and with the nose up it blocks visibility downward and foreward. Those asserting the aircraft was flyable should note when you lose the radome on an F-16 your flight control computer loses the pitot tube and angle of attack indicators which are torn off with the radome. That an aircraft keeps going in one general direction after losing those key components reflects more on momentum than reflecting any ability to respond to control inputs. Any Viper driver missing the front end would have punched out. Pilots are well aware of the AOA sensors and pitot tube as they visually inspect them during their walkaround.
When the canopy rocket removes the canopy then the (two on 0171s case) ejection seats fire there is a considerable change in the aircraft weight, center of gravity and other (pyrotechnic) forces as several hundred pounds of humans and hardware are violently shot away from the aircraft..
I was an engine troop with the Flying Tigers at the time but on leave that and the next day. I worked on every bird in the 74th including that one. (The MY tail flash used in this video and using a single seater C-model is of course incorrect as Pope Vipers were FT and 0171 was a two seater.
BTW the Composite Wing model being inflicted on CONUS bases ended shortly after because it's a foolish idea outside deployed locations where it is an unfortunate necessity. Merrill McPeak's departure was not widely mourned. Composite wings in CONUS were inherently supply and support nightmares vs. bases with more than one squadron of the same aircraft. Placing Vipers on Pope was a mistake. I quite enjoyed my three years with the 74th. My fellow maintainers made the maintenance side a good assignment.
Excellent post. Thank you much. This explains why the F-16 pilot did not see the C-130. Yet I wish the F-16 pilot would have aimed his bird at a patch of ground that could have ensured less ground casualties. America's highest scoring air ace, Richard Bong, lost his life in an experimental plane after WW2. I have read that it is widely accepted by many that had Bong bailed out at the first sign of trouble he would most likely have survived. But being above such a populated area when his plane started malfunctioning, Bong chose to stay aboard as long as possible to direct his
stricken craft to an area less likely to cause mass casualties. A true hero. Thx.
I'll never understand how mid air collisions can happen. There's so much space in the sky and so much bad coincidences must happen. It's nearly unbelievable.
"Big Sky Theory".
Watch yo jet
Speaking of the first accident - I have wondered before, how the heck can pilots jump off the plane if they have no clue at all where and when their bird will hit the ground. These two were in such a hurry to save their own asses that they ditched a perfectly airworthy plane and thus killed and injured a lot of people on the ground. Wouldn't it be possible to use a mechanism that would explode the plane after the pilots ejected .. something akin to missiles self-destructing system if they miss their targets?
My thought exactly! Instead of two deaths, 24 died! They should be charged!
I'm more interested in how they could fly up the ass of such a large plane and not see it.
The Great Santini.
😂 and turn the one or mostly intact plane into a million shards of lethal debris ? You realize 99.9% of the time planes dont crash and when they do 99.99999999999999999999 times outta 100 they dont hit anything but the ground this was just a bunch of series of unfortunate events , and im assuming you would have rode the plane to the ground if you were them right 😂 seriously why the fuck wouldn’t they? They were going to crash they couldn’t control the plane they had ejection seats , it was a unlucky spot to crash so is life lol
@@Neegtawloj - Agree! When you are a pilot you are fully responsible for your plane and your actions until the end .. at least that's how I see it
Note: this video was a reupload from an original one.
"Fifteen years later" Suddenly the graphics greatly improve.
In the second incident, was there any ATC communication at all??? Did the helo squadron even know there was a C - 130 in the area and vice versa? Seems like negligence on the part of ATC.
Theflightchannel please tell me why are you not making a video of what happened to Philippine airlines
What is situational awareness like at these speeds?
how does he get the traffic to match the time era?
For Example in the video about the Hughes Airwest cash and PSA 182
May they Rest In Peace.
The first collision, what nightmare! I don't understand why the F-16 didn't at least try to steer the plane away from the base and people before bailing. In the second collision, I actually remember when that happened. Navy needs to do better. All air traffic control needs to be handled better. RIP all souls lost
F-16 pilots have a lot of blood on their hands !
First incident: Air Traffic Control mangled this one badly. The trainee controller had the right idea but chose the wrong airplane by confusing the call signs. His trainer seemed not to have a clue as to what was going on. Disciplinary action seems appropriate. But why did the F-16 pilot crash into a large cargo plane right in front of him? Was poor visibility, like fog or haze, an issue? The F-16 is capable of "breaking turns" of 4G or better and can perform 9G emergency turns. It can pitch up rapidly and climb and has a rapid-response throttle with the F-100 engine. The C-130 was right in front of it. Was there a blind spot? Did the F-16 pilot have to raise the landing gear to perform an evasive maneuver and could not for some reason? Second incident: The video depicts a flight in which both the HC-130H and the Marine Cor. AH-1 Viper are headed into the sun, causing glare to be a factor; but the helicopter crew should have seen the large, lumbering Hercules. And helicopter can change course faster than fixed-wing aircraft. Was there no time to evade? Did glare reduce visibility to zero? And why was there no called warning from the Navy's control tower? It is my understanding at the time that military aircraft did not have TCAS 15-20 years ago. Is that still true?
They'd ejected. The F-16 was on a ballistic trajectory and unguided at that point.
Problem with first accident started w/ CSAF.
@@ArchTeryx00 So I must conclude that the F-16 crew decided to eject rather than avoid the Hercules, which they could have done.
@@alanholck7995 OK, but that does not absolve the crew. Sure, you have an incompetent or confused controller. But when a large airplane is right in your 12 o'clock it's hard to claim you didn't see it in time.
@@ronaryel6445 They ejected after the collision. They were getting all sorts of warnings of catastrophic damage and a master alarm. The big controversy is that they ejected immediately instead of at least *trying* to steer the plane away from the base and toward open land. They had time enough to do that, but they reported in sworn testimony that the plane was uncontrollable after the collision, so neither were blamed. Nobody knows for sure if the accident was avoidable or not after the collision, sadly.
May all the victims in both accidents rest in peace 🙏
Great video, thank you very much.
Wrong sound for the AH-1W, two bladers sound very different to four bladers and upwards. Sounds more like the Z.
When lacking someone to blame, pick Navy.
@TheFlightChannel what flight sim do you use ?
Wow, in the first one, the pilots sure got away with something, killing and injuring so many people. Accidental isn't exactly how I would describe it!
It's negligent homicide/manslaughter. I'm sure both those pilots made General and retired with full benefits.
Retired USAF here. This was a time in USAF when Fighter Pilots could do no wrong (see Blackhawk shoot-down). The top 4-star wanted composite wings with mixed aircraft types, but then they didn’t provide proper training to lower-level folks, like air traffic control, firefighters, AGE, etc. I remember a bunch of us saying when all this reorganization happened that people are going to be killed because they are not thinking this through & getting everyone proper training.
@@alanholck7995 I spent time in the airwing not too long ago, fighter jocks are still "god's gift". At the end of the day, that F-16 should have been listening in to the calls between the C-130 and tower, and it was their duty to see and avoid. How TF they couldn't see a C-130 given how big it is and how good visibility is from the cockpit of the viper.
@@tonyf.9806 They were doing simulated flame-out & AoA was a lot higher than in video. Limited forward vis at that AoA.
But Pope is a lousy choice for mixed fighter/heavy ops - single runway. What you need are 2 parallels where fighters use one & heavies the other. But CSAF wanted a base where they could deploy as a single package w/ the Army - which sounds ok on paper, but the devil is in the details. And they were trying to do it on the cheap - the ATC controllers were not experienced w/ F-16s, and every time they asked to go to TDY to Shaw AFB (F-16 base in South Carolina) to learn nuances of F-16 ops from the controllers there, they were told that there were no funds. So 20+ lives plus 2 aircraft lost (F-16 $40M, C-141 $8M) because they couldn't afford $3K to send ATC for some training.
@@tonyf.9806 : The C-130 was directly in front of the F-16 and below its nose. The F-16 had its nose pitched upward in a landing attitude. The pilots couldn't see the C-130, as their vision was obstructed by the nose of their own aircraft.
I'd have thought a fighter pilot would have the wherewithall to run a quick check before punching out of his Viper, shock and confusion notwithstanding.
It flew quite happily along the same trajectory to the AFB he left it set up in so shouldn't he have at least tried to aim it at a field?
I'm sitting at home typing this having never flown anything but he's a fighter pilot, you know; square jawed, calm, steely eyed, highly trained etc?
Apparently, the pilots ejected before they even determined if the plane was flyable--if I remember correctly.
@@perniciouspete4986 : That was my impression from the video. The F-16 certainly wasn't spinning out of control after the impact.
it's repost?
Sad 🙁
😍
The F16 pilot, what a horrible thing to live with.
Would love to see TFC do a video on the flight which doomed Koby Bryant.
There is one
Something no one would want to witness. When any aircraft declares an issue.. all bets are off. I was doing my certification GCA running when my company CO tried to declare a simulated emergency to impress some higher ranking officer he was flying with at the same time I had an actual emergency that I was giving a " no gyro" approach to. Later my CO apologized to me. These conditions were laid out I the FAR part 97.
Re-Upload?
pas de ticass sur les avion de chasse
do we still want to go to Iran given how we fly???
Don't they have a Viber Group Chat?
One would think that all (US) military aircraft would have TCAS, like commercial airliners do.
Problem with TCAS is it sends out a big beacon signal to locate the aircraft and alert it to others - not really something the military would like...
@@S3pra that shouldn’t be much of a problem over the continental United States. And which is worse? Transmitting your location, or running into other aircraft and dying horribly? Priorities. Besides, there’s probably a circuit breaker for it; just pop the breaker before heading into a combat sortie.
@@williamsquires3070redditor
The first story is chock full of stupid by participants. I don't understand why the F-16 pilot didn't make more of an effort for both evasive maneuvers (before contact) and trying to direct his plane to an area away from people.
I have a question....don't these planes have radar?? I thought all planes, especially the military, have radar to spot planes near or far from them. If they don't, then that's incredibly stupid that they dont.
They do not have air intercept radar, the C-130 has weather radar. The C-130 also has a system that warns you when another aircraft is dangerously close, TCAS I think it's called. I ask my dad, but he hasn't flown in C-130's for over 20 years now, he said he didn't remember.
Seems like they could have flown the plane all the way to the airbase. Maybe even landed it with no life lost at all. But Im not in the pilots seat.
X le vittime riposate in Pace 🙏✝️🌺🌹❤️
Dio vi benedica
No surprise here...the Coast Guard and Marine Corps find no fault with themselves and blame the Navy.
We want new content
This is sad
A few grammar mistakes on this one, which is unusual for the Flight Channel. Maybe get a new proof reader???
So let me get this straight. We spend MILLIONS of TAX money for the military army etc. and we use OLD PLANES for TRAINING MISSIONS from OUR money snd also the RADAR EQUIPMENT is outdated or not in use. Im so glad to be an AMERICAN…
1
🤨🤨🤨
@@wesleynorris2313 I tried to start something, didn't work lol
No charges for killing all those servicemen? wow, I guess pilots are expensive to train because they sure got protected by the powers that be. America is.......was amazing at one time.
I use to fly in the c 130
Very noisy and hot
And uncomfortable
I did a weekend drill on SC island in Dec of 1985
Foggy and cold cold cold
We slept in attic sleeping bags on the grass
I believe I remember when the second incident happened. Tragic.
Can somebody explain why we have an expensive and dangerous air force when our government refuses to enforce our own borders?
Reupload?
I'm guessing there's only so many videos you can do.
Yes, getting boring now tbh… time for him to get a real job
@@jeremytonesHe still hasn't done the Lynyrd Skynyrd plane crash or the Ricky Nelson plane crash, so he has a couple of things to do.
@@danw2112perhaps you should make them instead of moaning about reloads. It’s a brilliant video
@@Ben-ks5bmyou are rude!😠 Better yet, you stop following him and you get a real job!
Reupload of course ...
So what?
So what? His videos are awesome!😊
It’s every damn video now…it’s ruining the channel. He’s stopped making new content.
THAT'S SAD, ONE OF THE OUTCOMES OF BLEEDING DURING TRAININGS WHEN PREPARING
FOR ANY MILITARY OPERATIONS. EQUIPMENTS' OR PERSONNEL'S FAULTS; MY CONDOLENCES TO
ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE CASAULTIES. ETERNAL RESTS GRANT UNTO THEM O LORD, AND
LET PERPETUAL LIGHT SHINE UPON THEM. MAY THEIR SOULS REST IN PERFECT PEACE. AMEN
Seems like all these are are repeats anymore
There was no radar coverage of this area? What kind of nonsense is this? No communications?
Instead of doing reboots, make new content
Why do you keep reposting stuff dude, there are thousands of accidents to cover...
The price we have paid to be the world hegemon is intolerable.
And the price of having a country of China or Russia taking over that role would be orders of magnitude higher.
If the US stopped what we're doing, there would be a power vacuum that would get filled by Russia and China. Do you think that this would be a good thing?
@@colincampbell767 Classic neoliberal neocon thinking.
It's a suicidal certainty to carry on the insanity.
Put some context in teh title please
im sure the F16 pilot would not be charged if the plane flying directly to white house
Clickbait BS
Every video is a recycled content now. Channel is dead.
ok
I am sure the authorities put these incidents down to “friendly. crashes"