I own a HDS 325lumen NLT rotary, convoy s2+ with custom triple LEDs, a malkoff md2 HOT, couple of thrunite TN12s, an Oveready Boss, and the FW3A. All of them are ofcourse much brighter on the highest output setting over the HDS because at the end of the day the HDS is a CR123 platform and was designed around that platform, the max safe discharge rate of CR123 batteries are around 1amp thus Henry from HDS make 1amp lights. Sure HDS lights are a bit large compared to most other modern CR123 lights but the modest output+bigger tube housing(host) net you a flashlight that doesn’t overheat and have to step down to a lower output from turbo or high after like 30seconds for almost all “high powered/high lumens” single cell pocket sized lights... For the average flashlight user 200-325 lumens is plenty bright. The only thing I do wish for is if HDS would make an 18350 sized light or at least the battery tube for bit more run time, I know they make 18650tubes but those are too long and looks awkward with the head never heard of them offering tubes in 18350 size tho. Overall I like my HDS I do not regret purchasing this well built, well thought out tool and the attention to reliability and ease of use especially the Rotary UI. When I do go out at night I often find my self grabbing the HDS. The other lights in my collection are either too big or too easy to accidentally switch modes. Just carry a couple of extra CR123s or its rechargeable variants (RCR123A/16340) and you’re good to go. It’s sort of like that underpowered vehicle, reliable, well built car that will always get you from point A-B thus their slogan “The light that gets you home”
Henry is a great guy. I knew him when we did Tia Chi about 20 years ago. I got one of his flashlights when I went on my deployment in 08. Worked great. Even used it on the road when the search light on the Humvee burned out. Kept the mission going!
For a long time I liked just getting the brightest lights from manufacturers like olight and ace beam etc. After having experienced using them in the real world I’ve found I much prefer using the high quality lights such as surefire, hds, malkoff, elzetta, zebra light etc. They seem to be much more accurate in their output measurements and runtimes and I’ve found their optics to be superb compared to all the basic reflectors that the other brands use. And that’s not even touching on the longevity comparison.
I've owned HDS lights for 10+ yrs when I was a regular of CPF back ~'08 and this was my fav work light (had the 200 lumen). My 2 HDS lights now reside in my go-bags because I feel confident that they are bomb proof lights and are reliable but with the advancement of lights today, I don't EDC them. I understand Henry's philosophy on why he doesn't want to overdrive lumens, coming from his experience of cave exploration, but he could entertain the concept of more lumens in a separate lineup. They are tanks in the world of fast moving aircraft. Each has its unique place imho.
I read someone’s comments once, and they said there really is no reason to like this light when you consider the lumens, the size compared to other single satellites, the lack of a clip, and a few other thing, but at the same time, it’s one of the best lights made.
@@johncacey Yep :),. Have a MDC in safety orange in a maxpedition bag w/ my truck pistol. Had it for quite a few years (can remember which led is in it, M61?). My recent purchase is a Cloud Defensive MCH-HC. My next purchase will probably be a Hank light since I'm hearing a LOT of hoopla about so my curiosity is peaked.
@@hueyvandiver9819 Sweet! Ya I have the MDC with the duel mode ring installed and the T M61 head I think. I have been eying Modlight PLHv2 but don’t really need it.
My Nitecore P20Ix has 2 buttons on the cap. One for instant strobe and has 2 modes. tactical which is always on turbo or daily. You can easily use a low output instantly and have access to instant turbo or strobe. THAT! is way much more efficient than this. I dont want to use another hand to turn the cap. I want instant access to all turbo, strobe, or a low output with only one hand. When ever I want every single time. I dont understand how a "tactical light" can be only 250 lumens. I can't really blind anyone.
All valid points and of course not everyone will see it the same. There are lots of great lights that have more features, but HDS does have some things that others might value more.
Kind of interesting, not more than 2 days after watching this and having that talk with you, I have the opportunity to purchase a used 1 (same light as yours) The Tactical EDC for $250 - its has 325 Lumens. Great condition, raised tail cap. I think I will go ahead and take it just to finally have an HDS in my hands and see what I think of it overall. If I like it - great I'll keep it, if not then at least I can resell it and recoup my money on it. I do want to see how it compares to some of my other lights, and see the weight/size in person in hand/pocket. Ultimately I think the tactical interface might work well for me, as I do carry tactical lights on me currently, but currently light only has 1 output. Using the rotary would be a nice change of pace and just needing 1 light. With that said, I'd need to see the difference in person in performance to really decide... As for an EDC light I could see these being great lights, because generally 325 lumens is way more than enough light for any EDC task... That would probably however lead me to wanting a normal rotary EDC HDS though, not the tactical... with a recessed button for no accidental turn on in pocket. Anyway, enough rambling. Catch ya later
Go to his site and read about the different LEDs used. The 325 does not have the same beam pattern as the 250. If you go to his custom page you can read all about them. Both the 250 and 325 are great LEDs but I think the 325 is ever so slightly wider beam pattern. Both throw great but there is a difference. You should enjoy it! Let me know what you think!
The e1l is awesome for such a little light insane battery life on low and crazy throw for such a small light i built my gf's e1e and it has insane flood and with smooth refelector has a nice hotspot as well
I have owned several HDS RA lights over the last decade. All but one had to go back to Henry for repair. I baby my stuff, it was electronic malfunctions. Great lights but somewhat finicky in my experience. When Henry retires I wonder who will continue to service these expensive lights.
It's really frustrating when you pay a lot of money for something and it fails. Luckily, I have not had a problem yet with the 3 HDS rotaries that I have.
Do you know the Nextroch TA30. This has a great UI. A momentary tailswitch with two steps first press is turbo and if you press over a kind of resistance you have strobe. Additional you have a rotary switch at the tail for constant low/med/high/strobe.And if you are in constant low or med you still can get instant strobe or turbo from the tailswitch. If you let go you are back in the low. For a tactical/edc there is nothing better.
I see these alot on ktf group i build my custom surefires I like to have a very low long battery life setting and a ultra bright throw setting for me im either always looking within 5ft away or a 100yd minimum
Surefires DO and CAN take rechargeable cells both the back up and edcl1t accept Lifepo4 chemistry and I believe it's the back up that accepts both Lifepo4 AND Lithium ion. even on their official website surefire supports Lifepo4 for both those lights and when you click on the edcl1t under the compatible accessories options to add to your order their brand (of course) Lifepo4 cells and charger is listed as an option so they officially support those I don't believe they officially support the use of lithium ion in their lights but I know and respect enough peoples opinions on cpf and r/flashlight that I wouldn't think twice about using 16340s if I had one. Not sure exactly why they finally decided to support the use of Lifepo4 but I'm guessing cuz they read cpf etc and see most people know that they work just fine so may as well cash in on it and offer their own brand. Anyways just FYI, I don't own a single surefire light I have almost pulled the trigger on one of the EDC lt models numerous times specifically for the gas pedal switch but it's just too much money to justify for me especially when they can't even list some of their vital specs like led for one ya it's easily found information but still why wouldn't they list it? I have had a couple HDS but sold the ones I had last year or two and just recently ordered another rotary in November but just recently found out that they are behind and haven't sent a light (at least custom option) in at least a few months which is concerning. If you don't mind me asking when did you order that light and when did you receive? Also I won't get into it too much here now, and I'm sure many will disagree but if you really want a purely tough easy to own/use minimum maintenance, ultra reliable, ultra durable, the quite simply put the mcgizmo haiku is unbeatable. While I do love HDS lights people kinda just take the parts they like about certain HDS lights and inaccurately combine them such as how durable the rotary is as you said and it comes up often "bombproof" that may be I suppose yet susceptible to a mud puddle? See the videos you see of shooting at it with a shotgun or underwater battery changes or countless throws into asphalt/concrete... All with an executive or "clicky" model. Yet the rotary takes all the glory and is the one that is mistakenly attributed to being so durable and strong when both common things like clean fresh water or sand can render it inoperable mean while aside from a small cult-like fan base the clicky has become all but forgotten and I just think it needs to be made very clear that all those amazing solid tough things that you hear hds lights do, is the hds light that near nobody wants and I would strongly recommend doing too many torture tests on your rotary tailed lights. That said I still absolutely love the rotaries I just think it should be clear as to their limitations. The two lights I had before were one rotary one clicky and without a doubt the clicky was technically the "better" light. So why did I order a rotary this time? Cuz i know what it can and can't do I will use it and use it hard don't get me wrong but still nothing will replace my Haiku. It's just the better light. Better of course subjectively to me meaning longevity, durability, ease of maintenance/User serviceable as it is 100% so when compared to HDS is what 2% (the bezel and the switch boot on the clickies)? Also Dons lights ALL come standard with high grade titanium hosts and sapphire lenses both of which would be costly upgrades on an HDS titanium being some 1000$ more.. just sayin. I still love HDS again this is in no way shape or form any kinda hate or negativity on HDS it's simply just stating facts and bringing to light topics that for whatever reason people just kinda ignore.
Thanks for the great reply! I called Henry and talked with him about his lights and told him I would be ordering. Not sure what day of the week but he said he builds and ships lights on Mondays usually and I think mine shipped that next Monday. So I had it in 1-1.5 weeks. Customs do say it takes 2 weeks on the order page so I am not shocked its taking longer. As to Surefire, I think for me the lack of clear support for all types of rechargeable batteries is what I am not a fan of. I know that SF supports or seems to support their brand Lifepo4, but I find that limiting. I am no battery expert for sure but when a brand limits the technology they support it can be a turn off. If all lithium Ion batteries were risky junk then I would not fault them but I think there are enough people running lithium to say that is not the case. Like you said they don’t give clear details on some things so in this case it pushed me away because I wanted rechargeable. I still love SF and if you want primaries only then they are a top choice. As to the rotary vs the clicky you make great points and I am glad you clarify the “bombproof” info. I looked at the Haiku lights but they seem much harder to come by especially if you are not on CPF as a regular. I might have had an AA from the already if it was easier to get. In the end the HDS has always been on my list and it is one of the only few that checked all the boxes this time. I wanted: duel fuel light, moonlight - usable options, and a big one being instant access to “momentary” full brightness. That is a hard combo to find! Now its not perfect, lack of “good” clip option pre installed is a bit of a thing and as you said the rotary might lesson the “bombproof nature (would need to see tests) and of course its size to other lights in its category. But after all the looking I did it checked the boxes better than any others I found! Thanks for the great comment!
I honestly don’t remember if they say. Being a rotary its adjustable. Honestly once you start getting into high end customs they don’t always worry about run times. My Malkoff is like that also.
@@johncacey Are they sill using the signal wire on the inside edge of the casing ?? That one thing I do need to know. I own most high end brands except HDS - most have defined run times. I feel.
@@johncacey I just ordered this HDS Tactical you are covering in this video. Just got a Prometheus Alpha last week and that thing is a great light but a bit too big for EDC. I do want the Alpha shorty but they are always sold out.
For me and many others these Olight are to small. Also they have a terrible tint. It think the problem with HDS is rather to pay 3-400$ ! They maybe should offer a "budget" version for maybe 100$ I guess they would sell like crazy.
@@johncacey Obviously. Otherwise you wont own them. But the most wont pay the price. Not even flashoholics. You can get some in good quality for much less. I guess also many keep in mind that a flashlight is something you could lose quite easily. Imagine to lose a 400$ flashlight!
Also all the other 2000l flashlights maybe can run this high a few minutes and after the voltage is around 80% , what happen very fast, you only get 6-700l. I would prefer a flashlight with a high of 6-700 that could hold it much longer before it drops. But they probably wouldnt sell.
It is special that you claim to do a lot of research into what you are going to buy, but apparently you have skipped all the information that HDS shares on its website. For example, your HDS has 250 REAL lumens, while that Chinese thing has probably never been tested for lumens. Henry Schneiker writes really clearly about this on his site.
Well, actually I know that about HDS, sorry if I led you to believe otherwise. That is one thing that I value in a high end light. Measuring lumen output can be done in a way that exaggerates the numbers to make people think cheaper lights are better. I also never had any issue with HDS only being 250 lumens as it is more than enough for my uses.
LOL. That statement is wild. The man is living 15 years in the past. Tons of Chinese light hit the market with highly accurate lumen number. Lots of review and user can test it by themself. Lumen measurement nowadays is cheap and easy. Some even measure with their crazy expensive lab equipment. Chinese light in last few years are tried and true.
So, I am not a troll, or a hater. But geez. The HDS lights are sooooo very outdated. I am heavily in to lights, and have thousands of dollars in all sorts of different lights, but man I am not quite sure why anybody would buy it as a DEFENSIVE / Tactical light. It doesn't have the capability to perform as such. Back in the 90's early 2000's this would have been one of the greats... But today, there are a vast number of much better options out there. So many issues with this light. 1) the size of it for a 123 battery is just ludicrous. Who in their right mind is going to carry that big chunk of light for a max of 250 lumens, running on a 123 battery? (If it's for EDC purposes AND NOT DEFENSIVE/TACTICAL and you are a fanboy (or just a user who appreciated the light for what it is) thats fine, but as a defensive / tactical option for LE or even an option for a CCW holder walking around with their firearm on them EDC, this is a very poor choice. 2) For a light of that size and weight, you will easily find a light the same size and weight but that utilizes a larger battery, so you can get higher run times along with higher output and / or candela. 3) These lights are quite expensive, and its a small company, what happens when Henry closes up shop? -- Who's warrantying the light? -- One of the reasons to pay such a premium isn't just for the made in USA / quality... but the peace of mind knowing you are in good hands, if anything were to happen to the light... you will be taken care of.... this is also something that bothers my about malkoff, but malkoff prices aren't so bad, so I dont really mind so much about that. 4) In listening to your video, to me is seems like your confused on what you truly want out of your light. It seems one second you want a pure EDC light, that is whats used 99.99999% of the time, then in the next sentence you seem to want a defensive light with max output ready to blind an attacker. -- How about we make it more simple. -- Carry that small tiny Olight baton you have for EDC, its PERFECTLY suited for EDC thats what its MEANT for. It's WAY smaller and lighter and more than capable of getting all of your EDC tasks done day to day. --- Now on top of that lets grab a true tactical light to carry for self defense. Something like a modlite PlhV2 18350 form factor. It runs on an 18350 battery which is much more capable than a 123 is for approximately the same size light (modlite VS that HDS). This light will give you roughly 1200 stable lumens out the front for the first 4 minutes once you turn on the light. WAY more than enough time for you a non-duty person to pull the light out, and use it defensively and get your butt out of dodge. You really aren't going to need an extended runtime from your defensive light as a civilian. Even if you needed the modlite for longer than 4 minutes, it steps down from 1200 lumens to 700 lumens for approx. 3 more minutes after and then down to 400 lumens for the remainder of the battery life. (about 20 more minutes). -- It also has more candela than the HDS that will be able to punch through ambient light or window tint which are found commonly when you are in a real world environment use case. 5) I dislike how you need to remember to stage the light to be turned all the way to one side, for it to come on HIGH ... what if you are using it for edc task and put it in your pocket without turning it to that side? Now you find yourself needing to use it defensively and it comes on low, now you need to turn it for high. It's too much messing around, and its also a 2 handed job, not allowing you to wield your pistol if you have one. Just a bad idea all around. 6) Using the same light for EDC and tactical/defensive tasks also poses an issue, especially one that runs on such a low capacity battery (123). Lets say, you have a day you are using that light for EDC tasks ... whatever it may be for an extended period of time. Later that day you pull it out of your pocket to use it defensively on high. That battery has been used all day, and may be close to being empty if not already depleted, now you have a light that wont turn on, or that will but not at full power, or that does for a few seconds and then dies down all because you are double dipping and using that same light for both duties. I could go on with the list, but think I'll leave it there for now. Overall, I think for an EDC light, the HDS is a decent option if you are okay with having such a big form factor (unnecessarily) in your pocket, There are many smaller lights that can perform just as well if not better. For a defensive / tactical light, Its mind boggling to me that anybody would think this is even remotely a good option in 2023.
No hate here! These are all great points and I would have to agree with most of them. However, Often times when you want a light to do it all it is also a light that is not necessarily perfect at any one thing. This is where the HDS sits. Its a great EDC light, can be used as a defense light but is not the perfect choice for either of those. I don't want to carry two lights and to be honest I have not found another light that "does it all" with the same interface as this. The point about the maker and warranty...100% agree and that is an issue. As far as the battery being used and not ready for defense you are right, but you also have the same issue if you use a SureFire with a 123a also. HDS openly supports rechargeables, so you just keep it charged at night and your good the next day. Size, again, you are right there are smaller lights. But I look at all the things it does for me and decided it was worth it. I love having a high mode that is momentary for defense situations, dual mode Surefire clicky lights are not good for this. Gas pedal lights are better but there are not many of them to choose from. I also like simply turning the tail cap and having momentary strobe. Used this the other night. Was in a parking lot and someone started to approach my direction later in the day so I simply had the light in my hand and twisted the tail cap and it was ready for strobe (keep it on max most of the time). I am a Surefire Fan but just did not find what I wanted. They are capable of running their special rechargeables but lets be honest, that is not ideal. I would rather a light be open about accepting them and not be this vague thing. So they run on primaries and you have the same issue you mentioned where if used they are not 100% ready for defense. As far as the lumin output, I get that but at the same time the 250 out of the HDS is a constant 250 and that to me can be better than a light that starts off at 1000lm only to drop to 500 after 1 min. As you know being a light guy there are a lot of things to consider but for what I wanted at this time the HDS nailed it. Things I wish were different are: 1. Company in place to guarantee warranty. 2. Solid Pocket clip option. 3. 500lm with the same perfect regulation as he has in the 250. This light is no MODLIGHT but next to my Malkoff MD2 it is no slouch either. Again I know the limitations and I wish they were not there, also there is an aspect that this has been a grail light of mine for a long time. But I honestly did not find a light that fit my specific needs any better. Maybe there is another light out there and maybe I will find it next :) Thanks for all the good comments, it will help others think through things.
@@johncacey appreciate the response. Agree with most if not everything you touched on. I’ve always wanted an HDS, they look like phenomenal lights. Who knows, I may end up grabbing one just to add to the collection I imagine for EDC this would be perfect. - only issue is it’s a bit big to then carry another dedicated tactical light as I normally do. I carry a foursevens mini ML from years ago as my EDC currently. Love it and runs on a 123 but is tiny - disappears in the pocket.
I own a HDS 325lumen NLT rotary, convoy s2+ with custom triple LEDs, a malkoff md2 HOT, couple of thrunite TN12s, an Oveready Boss, and the FW3A. All of them are ofcourse much brighter on the highest output setting over the HDS because at the end of the day the HDS is a CR123 platform and was designed around that platform, the max safe discharge rate of CR123 batteries are around 1amp thus Henry from HDS make 1amp lights. Sure HDS lights are a bit large compared to most other modern CR123 lights but the modest output+bigger tube housing(host) net you a flashlight that doesn’t overheat and have to step down to a lower output from turbo or high after like 30seconds for almost all “high powered/high lumens” single cell pocket sized lights... For the average flashlight user 200-325 lumens is plenty bright. The only thing I do wish for is if HDS would make an 18350 sized light or at least the battery tube for bit more run time, I know they make 18650tubes but those are too long and looks awkward with the head never heard of them offering tubes in 18350 size tho. Overall I like my HDS I do not regret purchasing this well built, well thought out tool and the attention to reliability and ease of use especially the Rotary UI. When I do go out at night I often find my self grabbing the HDS. The other lights in my collection are either too big or too easy to accidentally switch modes. Just carry a couple of extra CR123s or its rechargeable variants (RCR123A/16340) and you’re good to go. It’s sort of like that underpowered vehicle, reliable, well built car that will always get you from point A-B thus their slogan “The light that gets you home”
Agree 100%! Thanks for the review.
Henry is a great guy. I knew him when we did Tia Chi about 20 years ago. I got one of his flashlights when I went on my deployment in 08. Worked great. Even used it on the road when the search light on the Humvee burned out. Kept the mission going!
@@p.o.9964 Thanks for the great info!
For a long time I liked just getting the brightest lights from manufacturers like olight and ace beam etc.
After having experienced using them in the real world I’ve found I much prefer using the high quality lights such as surefire, hds, malkoff, elzetta, zebra light etc.
They seem to be much more accurate in their output measurements and runtimes and I’ve found their optics to be superb compared to all the basic reflectors that the other brands use.
And that’s not even touching on the longevity comparison.
@@mrsteel250 Sweet thanks!
I've owned HDS lights for 10+ yrs when I was a regular of CPF back ~'08 and this was my fav work light (had the 200 lumen). My 2 HDS lights now reside in my go-bags because I feel confident that they are bomb proof lights and are reliable but with the advancement of lights today, I don't EDC them. I understand Henry's philosophy on why he doesn't want to overdrive lumens, coming from his experience of cave exploration, but he could entertain the concept of more lumens in a separate lineup. They are tanks in the world of fast moving aircraft. Each has its unique place imho.
I read someone’s comments once, and they said there really is no reason to like this light when you consider the lumens, the size compared to other single satellites, the lack of a clip, and a few other thing, but at the same time, it’s one of the best lights made.
@@johncacey Agreed. If/when the world went to s#%t I will definitely have a HDS light on me lol.
@@hueyvandiver9819 Have you tried anything from Malkoff? I have two of their lights and would rate them hight up there also!
@@johncacey Yep :),. Have a MDC in safety orange in a maxpedition bag w/ my truck pistol. Had it for quite a few years (can remember which led is in it, M61?). My recent purchase is a Cloud Defensive MCH-HC. My next purchase will probably be a Hank light since I'm hearing a LOT of hoopla about so my curiosity is peaked.
@@hueyvandiver9819 Sweet! Ya I have the MDC with the duel mode ring installed and the T M61 head I think. I have been eying Modlight PLHv2 but don’t really need it.
My Nitecore P20Ix has 2 buttons on the cap. One for instant strobe and has 2 modes. tactical which is always on turbo or daily. You can easily use a low output instantly and have access to instant turbo or strobe. THAT! is way much more efficient than this. I dont want to use another hand to turn the cap. I want instant access to all turbo, strobe, or a low output with only one hand. When ever I want every single time. I dont understand how a "tactical light" can be only 250 lumens. I can't really blind anyone.
All valid points and of course not everyone will see it the same. There are lots of great lights that have more features, but HDS does have some things that others might value more.
Kind of interesting, not more than 2 days after watching this and having that talk with you, I have the opportunity to purchase a used 1 (same light as yours) The Tactical EDC for $250 - its has 325 Lumens. Great condition, raised tail cap. I think I will go ahead and take it just to finally have an HDS in my hands and see what I think of it overall. If I like it - great I'll keep it, if not then at least I can resell it and recoup my money on it.
I do want to see how it compares to some of my other lights, and see the weight/size in person in hand/pocket.
Ultimately I think the tactical interface might work well for me, as I do carry tactical lights on me currently, but currently light only has 1 output. Using the rotary would be a nice change of pace and just needing 1 light. With that said, I'd need to see the difference in person in performance to really decide... As for an EDC light I could see these being great lights, because generally 325 lumens is way more than enough light for any EDC task... That would probably however lead me to wanting a normal rotary EDC HDS though, not the tactical... with a recessed button for no accidental turn on in pocket.
Anyway, enough rambling. Catch ya later
Go to his site and read about the different LEDs used. The 325 does not have the same beam pattern as the 250. If you go to his custom page you can read all about them. Both the 250 and 325 are great LEDs but I think the 325 is ever so slightly wider beam pattern. Both throw great but there is a difference. You should enjoy it! Let me know what you think!
The e1l is awesome for such a little light insane battery life on low and crazy throw for such a small light i built my gf's e1e and it has insane flood and with smooth refelector has a nice hotspot as well
Y its my most used light lol!
I have owned several HDS RA lights over the last decade. All but one had to go back to Henry for repair. I baby my stuff, it was electronic malfunctions. Great lights but somewhat finicky in my experience. When Henry retires I wonder who will continue to service these expensive lights.
All great points,
It's really frustrating when you pay a lot of money for something and it fails. Luckily, I have not had a problem yet with the 3 HDS rotaries that I have.
Nice review! FYI the rotary can do momentary as well.
Yes, the momentary max brightness was one of my criteria I was looking for.
get the 18650 battery handle it feels even better
@@letmebe79 Good info
Do you know the Nextroch TA30. This has a great UI. A momentary tailswitch with two steps first press is turbo and if you press over a kind of resistance you have strobe. Additional you have a rotary switch at the tail for constant low/med/high/strobe.And if you are in constant low or med you still can get instant strobe or turbo from the tailswitch. If you let go you are back in the low. For a tactical/edc there is nothing better.
I am not familiar with that one.
@@johncacey There are a lot of reviews on youtube.
I see these alot on ktf group i build my custom surefires I like to have a very low long battery life setting and a ultra bright throw setting for me im either always looking within 5ft away or a 100yd minimum
Nice
Surefires DO and CAN take rechargeable cells both the back up and edcl1t accept Lifepo4 chemistry and I believe it's the back up that accepts both Lifepo4 AND Lithium ion. even on their official website surefire supports Lifepo4 for both those lights and when you click on the edcl1t under the compatible accessories options to add to your order their brand (of course) Lifepo4 cells and charger is listed as an option so they officially support those I don't believe they officially support the use of lithium ion in their lights but I know and respect enough peoples opinions on cpf and r/flashlight that I wouldn't think twice about using 16340s if I had one. Not sure exactly why they finally decided to support the use of Lifepo4 but I'm guessing cuz they read cpf etc and see most people know that they work just fine so may as well cash in on it and offer their own brand. Anyways just FYI, I don't own a single surefire light I have almost pulled the trigger on one of the EDC lt models numerous times specifically for the gas pedal switch but it's just too much money to justify for me especially when they can't even list some of their vital specs like led for one ya it's easily found information but still why wouldn't they list it? I have had a couple HDS but sold the ones I had last year or two and just recently ordered another rotary in November but just recently found out that they are behind and haven't sent a light (at least custom option) in at least a few months which is concerning. If you don't mind me asking when did you order that light and when did you receive?
Also I won't get into it too much here now, and I'm sure many will disagree but if you really want a purely tough easy to own/use minimum maintenance, ultra reliable, ultra durable, the quite simply put the mcgizmo haiku is unbeatable. While I do love HDS lights people kinda just take the parts they like about certain HDS lights and inaccurately combine them such as how durable the rotary is as you said and it comes up often "bombproof" that may be I suppose yet susceptible to a mud puddle? See the videos you see of shooting at it with a shotgun or underwater battery changes or countless throws into asphalt/concrete... All with an executive or "clicky" model. Yet the rotary takes all the glory and is the one that is mistakenly attributed to being so durable and strong when both common things like clean fresh water or sand can render it inoperable mean while aside from a small cult-like fan base the clicky has become all but forgotten and I just think it needs to be made very clear that all those amazing solid tough things that you hear hds lights do, is the hds light that near nobody wants and I would strongly recommend doing too many torture tests on your rotary tailed lights. That said I still absolutely love the rotaries I just think it should be clear as to their limitations. The two lights I had before were one rotary one clicky and without a doubt the clicky was technically the "better" light. So why did I order a rotary this time? Cuz i know what it can and can't do I will use it and use it hard don't get me wrong but still nothing will replace my Haiku. It's just the better light. Better of course subjectively to me meaning longevity, durability, ease of maintenance/User serviceable as it is 100% so when compared to HDS is what 2% (the bezel and the switch boot on the clickies)? Also Dons lights ALL come standard with high grade titanium hosts and sapphire lenses both of which would be costly upgrades on an HDS titanium being some 1000$ more.. just sayin. I still love HDS again this is in no way shape or form any kinda hate or negativity on HDS it's simply just stating facts and bringing to light topics that for whatever reason people just kinda ignore.
Thanks for the great reply! I called Henry and talked with him about his lights and told him I would be ordering. Not sure what day of the week but he said he builds and ships lights on Mondays usually and I think mine shipped that next Monday. So I had it in 1-1.5 weeks. Customs do say it takes 2 weeks on the order page so I am not shocked its taking longer.
As to Surefire, I think for me the lack of clear support for all types of rechargeable batteries is what I am not a fan of. I know that SF supports or seems to support their brand Lifepo4, but I find that limiting. I am no battery expert for sure but when a brand limits the technology they support it can be a turn off. If all lithium Ion batteries were risky junk then I would not fault them but I think there are enough people running lithium to say that is not the case. Like you said they don’t give clear details on some things so in this case it pushed me away because I wanted rechargeable. I still love SF and if you want primaries only then they are a top choice. As to the rotary vs the clicky you make great points and I am glad you clarify the “bombproof” info. I looked at the Haiku lights but they seem much harder to come by especially if you are not on CPF as a regular. I might have had an AA from the already if it was easier to get. In the end the HDS has always been on my list and it is one of the only few that checked all the boxes this time. I wanted: duel fuel light, moonlight - usable options, and a big one being instant access to “momentary” full brightness. That is a hard combo to find! Now its not perfect, lack of “good” clip option pre installed is a bit of a thing and as you said the rotary might lesson the “bombproof nature (would need to see tests) and of course its size to other lights in its category. But after all the looking I did it checked the boxes better than any others I found! Thanks for the great comment!
Great video - whats the run time on the HDS ?
I honestly don’t remember if they say. Being a rotary its adjustable. Honestly once you start getting into high end customs they don’t always worry about run times. My Malkoff is like that also.
@@johncacey Are they sill using the signal wire on the inside edge of the casing ?? That one thing I do need to know. I own most high end brands except HDS - most have defined run times. I feel.
@@NuclearCowboyTube I suggest calling Henry and asking. I called him and we chatted a while before I ordered.
Which flashlight do you EDC right now?
Currently, it is the Olight Warrior Mini 3. but I have my eye on another Malkoff :)
@@johncacey I just ordered this HDS Tactical you are covering in this video. Just got a Prometheus Alpha last week and that thing is a great light but a bit too big for EDC. I do want the Alpha shorty but they are always sold out.
@@johncacey Which Malkoff are you considering for EDC?
@@Mil-SpecWatchesThe HDS is a great light! I love the tactical layout and it takes regular 123a or rechargeable. Enjoy it!
@@Mil-SpecWatchesI have the MDC AA and have owned the MD2. I want to get the Bodyguard :)
For me and many others these Olight are to small. Also they have a terrible tint. It think the problem with HDS is rather to pay 3-400$ ! They maybe should offer a "budget" version for maybe 100$ I guess they would sell like crazy.
I don’t mind paying for quality and for the effort put into design.
@@johncacey Obviously. Otherwise you wont own them. But the most wont pay the price. Not even flashoholics. You can get some in good quality for much less. I guess also many keep in mind that a flashlight is something you could lose quite easily. Imagine to lose a 400$ flashlight!
Henry (HDS) calls his lumens "useful" lumens.
Also all the other 2000l flashlights maybe can run this high a few minutes and after the voltage is around 80% , what happen very fast, you only get 6-700l. I would prefer a flashlight with a high of 6-700 that could hold it much longer before it drops. But they probably wouldnt sell.
Spot on!
Gieszkanne: exactly
It is special that you claim to do a lot of research into what you are going to buy, but apparently you have skipped all the information that HDS shares on its website. For example, your HDS has 250 REAL lumens, while that Chinese thing has probably never been tested for lumens. Henry Schneiker writes really clearly about this on his site.
Well, actually I know that about HDS, sorry if I led you to believe otherwise. That is one thing that I value in a high end light. Measuring lumen output can be done in a way that exaggerates the numbers to make people think cheaper lights are better. I also never had any issue with HDS only being 250 lumens as it is more than enough for my uses.
LOL. That statement is wild. The man is living 15 years in the past. Tons of Chinese light hit the market with highly accurate lumen number. Lots of review and user can test it by themself. Lumen measurement nowadays is cheap and easy. Some even measure with their crazy expensive lab equipment. Chinese light in last few years are tried and true.
So, I am not a troll, or a hater. But geez. The HDS lights are sooooo very outdated. I am heavily in to lights, and have thousands of dollars in all sorts of different lights, but man I am not quite sure why anybody would buy it as a DEFENSIVE / Tactical light. It doesn't have the capability to perform as such. Back in the 90's early 2000's this would have been one of the greats... But today, there are a vast number of much better options out there. So many issues with this light.
1) the size of it for a 123 battery is just ludicrous. Who in their right mind is going to carry that big chunk of light for a max of 250 lumens, running on a 123 battery? (If it's for EDC purposes AND NOT DEFENSIVE/TACTICAL and you are a fanboy (or just a user who appreciated the light for what it is) thats fine, but as a defensive / tactical option for LE or even an option for a CCW holder walking around with their firearm on them EDC, this is a very poor choice.
2) For a light of that size and weight, you will easily find a light the same size and weight but that utilizes a larger battery, so you can get higher run times along with higher output and / or candela.
3) These lights are quite expensive, and its a small company, what happens when Henry closes up shop? -- Who's warrantying the light? -- One of the reasons to pay such a premium isn't just for the made in USA / quality... but the peace of mind knowing you are in good hands, if anything were to happen to the light... you will be taken care of.... this is also something that bothers my about malkoff, but malkoff prices aren't so bad, so I dont really mind so much about that.
4) In listening to your video, to me is seems like your confused on what you truly want out of your light. It seems one second you want a pure EDC light, that is whats used 99.99999% of the time, then in the next sentence you seem to want a defensive light with max output ready to blind an attacker. -- How about we make it more simple. -- Carry that small tiny Olight baton you have for EDC, its PERFECTLY suited for EDC thats what its MEANT for. It's WAY smaller and lighter and more than capable of getting all of your EDC tasks done day to day. --- Now on top of that lets grab a true tactical light to carry for self defense. Something like a modlite PlhV2 18350 form factor. It runs on an 18350 battery which is much more capable than a 123 is for approximately the same size light (modlite VS that HDS). This light will give you roughly 1200 stable lumens out the front for the first 4 minutes once you turn on the light. WAY more than enough time for you a non-duty person to pull the light out, and use it defensively and get your butt out of dodge. You really aren't going to need an extended runtime from your defensive light as a civilian. Even if you needed the modlite for longer than 4 minutes, it steps down from 1200 lumens to 700 lumens for approx. 3 more minutes after and then down to 400 lumens for the remainder of the battery life. (about 20 more minutes). -- It also has more candela than the HDS that will be able to punch through ambient light or window tint which are found commonly when you are in a real world environment use case.
5) I dislike how you need to remember to stage the light to be turned all the way to one side, for it to come on HIGH ... what if you are using it for edc task and put it in your pocket without turning it to that side? Now you find yourself needing to use it defensively and it comes on low, now you need to turn it for high. It's too much messing around, and its also a 2 handed job, not allowing you to wield your pistol if you have one. Just a bad idea all around.
6) Using the same light for EDC and tactical/defensive tasks also poses an issue, especially one that runs on such a low capacity battery (123). Lets say, you have a day you are using that light for EDC tasks ... whatever it may be for an extended period of time. Later that day you pull it out of your pocket to use it defensively on high. That battery has been used all day, and may be close to being empty if not already depleted, now you have a light that wont turn on, or that will but not at full power, or that does for a few seconds and then dies down all because you are double dipping and using that same light for both duties.
I could go on with the list, but think I'll leave it there for now.
Overall, I think for an EDC light, the HDS is a decent option if you are okay with having such a big form factor (unnecessarily) in your pocket, There are many smaller lights that can perform just as well if not better. For a defensive / tactical light, Its mind boggling to me that anybody would think this is even remotely a good option in 2023.
No hate here! These are all great points and I would have to agree with most of them. However, Often times when you want a light to do it all it is also a light that is not necessarily perfect at any one thing. This is where the HDS sits. Its a great EDC light, can be used as a defense light but is not the perfect choice for either of those. I don't want to carry two lights and to be honest I have not found another light that "does it all" with the same interface as this. The point about the maker and warranty...100% agree and that is an issue. As far as the battery being used and not ready for defense you are right, but you also have the same issue if you use a SureFire with a 123a also. HDS openly supports rechargeables, so you just keep it charged at night and your good the next day. Size, again, you are right there are smaller lights. But I look at all the things it does for me and decided it was worth it. I love having a high mode that is momentary for defense situations, dual mode Surefire clicky lights are not good for this. Gas pedal lights are better but there are not many of them to choose from. I also like simply turning the tail cap and having momentary strobe. Used this the other night. Was in a parking lot and someone started to approach my direction later in the day so I simply had the light in my hand and twisted the tail cap and it was ready for strobe (keep it on max most of the time). I am a Surefire Fan but just did not find what I wanted. They are capable of running their special rechargeables but lets be honest, that is not ideal. I would rather a light be open about accepting them and not be this vague thing. So they run on primaries and you have the same issue you mentioned where if used they are not 100% ready for defense. As far as the lumin output, I get that but at the same time the 250 out of the HDS is a constant 250 and that to me can be better than a light that starts off at 1000lm only to drop to 500 after 1 min. As you know being a light guy there are a lot of things to consider but for what I wanted at this time the HDS nailed it. Things I wish were different are: 1. Company in place to guarantee warranty. 2. Solid Pocket clip option. 3. 500lm with the same perfect regulation as he has in the 250. This light is no MODLIGHT but next to my Malkoff MD2 it is no slouch either.
Again I know the limitations and I wish they were not there, also there is an aspect that this has been a grail light of mine for a long time. But I honestly did not find a light that fit my specific needs any better. Maybe there is another light out there and maybe I will find it next :) Thanks for all the good comments, it will help others think through things.
@@johncacey appreciate the response.
Agree with most if not everything you touched on.
I’ve always wanted an HDS, they look like phenomenal lights. Who knows, I may end up grabbing one just to add to the collection I imagine for EDC this would be perfect. - only issue is it’s a bit big to then carry another dedicated tactical light as I normally do.
I carry a foursevens mini ML from years ago as my EDC currently. Love it and runs on a 123 but is tiny - disappears in the pocket.
@@callofduty60 Ya I have been through a lot of lights over the years. I need to do a light update vid!