It’s unreal how just continuing to live can be enough for things to just get better. Things rarely stay the same if you zoom out to the span of half decades, like it or not. The causes of these huge life changes are often things you could never imagine, like, 6 years ago. When you’re depressed pessimism can make you dismiss this, but that’s bc the brain makes sense of things. Sad yesterday + sad today = sad tomorrow. If it’s hard to remember the good times then it’s hard to make accurate predictions about the future. Edit: continuing to live **can** make things better. It gives things a chance to get better. It gives the world a chance to radically change and it gives you a chance to radically change. The former is more surprising since we generally attribute our fate to our choices. The ladder is more worth focusing on in the day to day. Hoping things will change is often not helpful. But forgetting things can always get better is a massive mistake caused by depression inhibiting your perceptions.
As someone who has been in that same tough process before, I am curious. I thought that weighing up the accumulation of bad/terrible life by staying alive vs the potential good/better life that can come after it would favour staying alive. If I have to endure 5-15 years of painfull life vs 20-40 years good life(after having suffered) it makes sense to stay alive to achive a net positive. With the exception of unbearable pain (R.I.P. Adam Maier-Clayton), or untreatable ailments, I have the assumption that logically, suicide does not make sense. If you have cancer or an illness with little chance of survival, doing a probability calculation and comparing potential good years ahead vs potential bad years ahead, you would have to be pretty old for the resoult to favour suicide. I do not want to overextended, I am just curious. So if possible I would like to know the reasoning behind what you said to your counselor; does it come from having wrong presumptions like Dr. K. says?
@@Federico-1 That tunnel vision almost inspired me to just go ahead and end it, about 25 years ago. I'd lost all 3 of my income sources (one of them BECAUSE of the panic attacks I was having, with hallucinations as one of the symptoms). I was sure I was headed for homelessness in the Minnesota Winter. My best friend/brother flew me to Las Vegas, where he was living, and set me up in a cheap quad apartment. A new acquaintance that I'd met in a support group asked if I could meet him at Luxor at 8:00 Monday morning. Sure. He'd set me up to be hired as a security guard for a big musical comedy show there. Everything changed overnight. I LOVED the job, and the panic lifted almost immediately. My new mantra became "Despair is a liar".
@@brendalg4because if they were "right", chances are they wouldn't need a therapist. Obviously, in reality its not so simple, but mental illness is, by definition, a "wrong" thing to have
I actually have a relative who struggles with this logic. She always says her life won't get better so there's no reason to go to a therapist. I tried to reason with her for years. Now after watching this video I told her what you said and she finally agreed to seek help. Thank you so much.
A lot of depression comes from a lack of hope especially for your future . Words may not always fix it though changes and opportunities might as long as they are of the mind set to take them . Depression is characterized by the eradication of positive emotion not only pain and anxiety. Though they are usually present especially the pain aspect . Though other factors can be involved lack of touch vitamin d deficiency and so on but mentally it has a lot to do with bringing positivity and and making it last . Giving hope to the hopeless.
We used to always be like "a therapist couldn't help. I already do all the things to try and work it out myself, what else could they possibly offer me?"
It's hard not to be depressed in the modern era. Our "purpose" has changed so fast due to technology and social constructs of this era that we feel unfulfilled or empty.
Back then our state of survival felt more pertinent. You either live to find food, shelter, searching for medicine to live longer, or die. Now, it feels like all of these things are provided to us more easily that we feel disconnected from what life really means. We don't live to survive anymore (for 1st world countries), we live to earn something called money and to try to "better society", but until when and for whom exactly? That's the question that people are starting to ask themselves more and more. Our "purpose" in life is becoming more and more abstract than to simply be allowed to live longer and to bestow our descendants the same.
@@Feathertail2205 to be quite frank, the concept of life when you think about the scale of the universe has no point, simply because it's *we* who have to make it have a point, existence is like a sandbox game, some like it, some don't.
@@jellymatsuryuka6853 Well technically other living things like bacteria don't ever think about why they exist or whether they should. In that way, they exist similarly to non-living atoms. But nature made it so that living things can co-exist with each other in a way that work together to create lush/diverse biospheres, something that we have not found anywhere else outside of Earth, yet. Which personally I would say is something to behold. Unfortunately our evolved intelligence/self-awareness is working against us at the moment where we are more self-absorbed about our own goals than how we fit into the grand natural "scheme" of things. Of course there's no real scheme, but we don't really stop to think about things that are truly outside of ourselves like we should because we've created such massive societies that became insulated bubbles for humanity, hence we believe that there's "no point" in existing, just as there's "no point" for anything in the universe to exist, but here we are, living things and non-living things alike, existing and going through reality. That should tell us that it's okay to just "be" without goals, as long as we still understand the effects of our actions that reflect on us, however puny they are compared to the universe, since we're all made up of the same thing (atoms) that everything else is. However, I understand that some people will find this thinking dissatisfying and to want to look for something more. In that regard, I say just do your best, find happiness in the little things, and appreciate that you get to spend some time in a beautiful world if you can once in a while overlook some of the ugly "monoliths" (ie. social constructs) that humans have created for the sake of your own peace and sanity.
Depression: "So life is pointless." Me: "Yes." Depression: "You believe you're so worthless to other people that you're actually detrimental to other people." Me: "Yes." Depression: "You don't believe you have value even to yourself." Me: "Yes." Depression: "So why don't you-" Me: "No." Depression: "But that doesn't make any sense!" Me: "Yes."
!!! Actually! I just can't! Not like I've tried and failed it's just not an option and then people don't take me serious when I try and communicate my issues and I'm not actively self harming or something drastic
@@bactrosaurus if you're actively questioning if you should be alive or feeling that suicide is an actual option I would think there's depression developing under the surface, maybe not acknowledged, but it may well be already in your thoughts
In my 5th year of depression, someday I suddently noticed that the trickiest thing about depression, is that it makes you believe you don't want to get better, as if you're depressed because it's the way things should be. All the things it tells you in your head sounds so true that you even begin to doubt that the life before was just a delusion, a fake image, because you're unable to see "the truth". It controls you not by some irrational thoughts, but by the fear of being irrational. The harder you try to "make sense", the deeper it controls you.
I came a few years ago out of 18 years of depression. So I can relate to this fully. Logic and thinking are the very thing that one has to let go of. In a way many things in our modern world are just fake images and delusions. It is an invitation to go into the abyss, the deeper layers and to find out the inner Truth of our being. To go inward and to see the inner Truth and authentic being that is hiding within, below the layers of the shadow. And there is no such thing as being irrational. We are both really. And that is ok.
@themomentpodcast Have you gone on any spiritual journey recently or in the past that has lead you to this? You're first comment rang home to me as I am starting to understand the pool of human consciousness we perhaps all originate from. Whether this is God or God's or the Atom idk but I wish dearly to understand more.
@@TheMysticTable Surpsingly for me, I agree with you. I would think of something I wished I would have known but if I did actually know that at the time, it would feel wrong. Everything did go how it should've done.
There's two types of depression: logic says I shouldn't be depressed but I am, and logic says I have no reason to not be depressed, the second one is what gets me
Actually true. I suffer from the first form. I know I have a fantastic life: two beautiful kids, perfect health (apart from the depression that is), safe country, good job, financial security, nice house. I can't count how many times I said to myself: I have what thousands of generations before me fought for, prayed for and suffered for. I have it all. It didn't help a thing, I kept feeling depressed. I'm doing better now, but after more than 20 years of ups and downs and different therapists I know it is a monster that will never leave me. The best I can hope for is that it stays asleep.
@@arnenl1575 I kind of get what you mean, but over time I realized that enjoying things isn't something you can try to do, unlike what they tell you Don't ever feel guilty of being sad, no one chooses to suffer and you aren't being selfish nor foolish for being unsatisfied and devoid of energy Just let the good things happen to you, without needing anything back from you to be appreciated, and fight with everything you have against what you don't want to be in your life, knowing that no matter what happens, you shall have no regrets At least that's what I habe found to be helpful for me, I hope you have as wonderful of a life as you deserve
I think lack of purpose makes people depressed. Ironically if a w4r did break out it would cure people's depression because it would give living meaning
@arnenl1575 perfect lives are not good for us, having everything you wanted leads to depression because there's nothing more to strive for, there's no meaning created when there's no struggle
@@lauran7862Your feelings are fickle and you listen to them in your head while thinking. Understand what is and what isn't, then go from there. Best personal advice I can give based on my own interpretation of the OP, and some first hand life experience.
The really neat thing about this is that people who suffer long term with severe depression have a much higher risk of developing autoimmune disorders.
I have a theory that our overwhelmingly safe enviroments cause these. These very powerful systems are so understimulated that they begin a life of their own. They had a very important purpuse and they were ment to work under the extremely dangerous pressure of life. If they have no pressure they go haywire.
@@krisztiannemeth6875 You really saying that people "need danger"? Damn... That would be some of the most stupid things I ever heard. Our brain is programmed on survival. Its programmed to make a society survive. And in every society most people are weak. Evolutionary seen especially the "weak gender" so half of a species. Our brain is programmed to make us building safety even if the safety is even unnesseccary if some people are powerful enough to even survive in a dangerous environment. We are addicted to safety. The brain does exactly the opposite of what you said. It actually makes someone depressive if he not choose safety. People get more and more depressive cause society is forcing them away from things the brain actually wants. Safety, family, egoism, and other "natural stuff". I actually lived a more dangerous life once and after I started to live more in safety ways I got way and way more happy, while before my brain was like shitting itself on purpose. Depression is a selfdefense system by the evolution to make everyone who does shitty things like not to choose safety hating himself and making him vulnurable for everyone who is willing to choose safety. Depression is youre body sacrificing you for the safety of the species. Safety is something like "the one above all". If you are mot choosing the safest ways in youre life, even if its totally unneccessay then you will get depressive. Everything else is just one of million illusions a human can hunt. Youre brain only accepts willingly forcing danger if it is totally nesseccary for you to survive. If youre even just trying to argue against safety youre brain already starts not to give you as much happiness as it could give you and make you even depressive. There will never be a truely happy human (very big accent on TRUE happiness) who is trying to argue against safety. You may can life phantasies like in videogames, but the border is when you would actually want to live such a life yourself or say to others that would be fun. Everyone who says something else never felt TRUE happiness, something that feels like youre on drugs. Our systems of safety make us happy. The brain willingly and actively forces people who dont accept this into depression. Thats the consequence of beeing anti and not the consequence of what youre against.
2:31 this is so on point. I was a "gifted child" and didn't develop emotionally very well and in my adulthood I look around like, "why do these people have all these things like friends and family and relationships and I don't?"
I tend to say very blunt and rude things to people because I don't value their emotions. Logically they need to do something and I'm telling them what I believe that might be. I wish people did this to me as well but they frustratingly value my emotions more than I want them to. I tend to not even feel human due to my inability to effectively communicate with others.
I've struggled with "being too smart for myself," or rather, forcing myself to get out of my own head and stop doing things "logically." I've grown to use logic to make myself feel safe in times where my emotions are on high alert, but sometimes it is more harmful than helpful.
"The madman has not lost his reason. He has lost everything **but** his reason." -- G. K. Chesterton This was written in the early 20th century, so the terminology is clearly antiquated, but it has really helped me understand, contextualize, and cope with my own mental illness.
Thank you for posting this here. I've always held Khalil Gibran's The Madman close to my heart and this quote feels like a contemporary sequel to his dwellings.
If you have relied on logic your whole life it's nothing but surprising how much of therapy for depression is actually focused on recognizing your emotions as if that has been an option all along
Therapists/counselors say anyone who is avoident, quiet, introverted or eccentric that they are sociopaths and difficult. The system does not encourage doctors to help outside a certain scope. It's assumed that most people are open and extroverted and if you are closed off you are a willfully difficult person. This doesn't start in adult hood it starts in elementary/middle/HS. People who are gifted often have more issues overall on a sociol/emotional level. People who have mental illness have the same thing. To fit in often requires a connection and if you are on the high end of a spectrum or a low end you often don't fit with general populous which is somewhere in the middle. This means that a person whos IQ is too low or too high you are going to naturally have problems connecting. Society also rewards and punishes behavior it doesn't find beneficial. Which beneficial doesn't mean auctully beneficial since in reality everyone is a benefit in SOME WAY. it means 'Common'. This is why mental illness is children is so heavily over diagnosed because school therapist/counselors are serving the school not the child and if the schools priorities are misaligned so are diagnoses. So many people who had to deal with years of being judged harshly for not fitting the standards gain complexes for being sent to counselors/Therapists for simply not fitting the schools standards. Despite the fact the schools often encourage and desire systemic abuse of children.
Logic is not the same as rationality; logic is a tool for rationality, but it can also be used in a irrational way. Take a valid deductive argument, it's valid because if you put true premises in its structute, it creates true conclusions. However , if you put wrong premises in a valid deductive argument, you can get things that are very wrong. Thus, if you are using logic on unsound premises like "I'm unlovable", "people hate me", "I have no reason to live", you can logically get to wrong conclusions.
I think you have the right idea, although perhaps you've misappropriated the term rationality a little to explain it. I'll attempt my own explanation for you to compare and decide what you think. Logic is fundamentally a projection of observations, we say if x and y are true then z must also be true. There are naturally a few issues that can arise. Firstly, our initial "facts"must be correct. (And just because something is true under certain conditions does not mean it is true under all conditions. I call one fact, and the other idea "a truth", something inherently axiomatic) Then our facts must also be functionally complete. By that I mean that x and y may be true but if J is also true and meaningfully changes the situation then our previous logic is in fact inaccurate despite both inputs being true. So logic is also a conclusion with a large degree of approximation. Thirdly, our assumption of transition must be true. Now we understand that x, y, and j are true, but our assumption of transition is that BECAUSE they are true then z must also be true. And finally, because logic is an conclusion based on gathered information, the result itself may be true, but not the whole truth. Well, that feels a bit of a messy explanation, but hopefully that gives some interesting thoughts. Despite all it's issues logic IS VALUABLE. I like to compare logic to focused eyesight, and intuition to peripheral vision. Both are information gathering and processing methods, and have their own roles in functional interaction with the world around us.
I like to put it as like this, logic and emotionality are like languages. While you can misuse a language, use it wrongly, the language itself is not wrong, it just exists as a system of making sense of the world. While rationality and emotionality may have a pure core, the "true language", they are daily in contact with each other and many other things like exterior circumstances, morals, experiences etc. So they never really exist in their pure form in us, they are an ideal, but in real life, they are just like languages, the spoken language usually breaks many rules of the "established official" language. So we end up at a point where it is dangerous to think that we wield the pure form of logics, emotions, morals, experience or whatever. These are just theoretical constructs that in its base form are so far away from our everyday lives, that using them in these forms barely makes sense. So we end up mixing in many ways. Some may mix morals with logic, others logic with morals, yet others mix morals with emotions, ... We probably even do any possible combinations ourselves, based on the circumstance. So anyone who says they are logical (or emotional) is probably not to be trusted in their observation because both are somewhat useless in their pure form. Without any input as to where the journey should go, they are just a code, a rulebook. Imagine it like the road code. It tells you how to drive your car, but it doesn't tell you where to journey to, what time to leave or in general the purpose of your journey. So no matter how well you apply the rulebook, you still need a goal in mind, which the rulebook alone can't give you. It can give you ideas, but your choice of goal is neither logical nor an emotion. It is a much more complex beast
It's as simple as this: if you decide to prove with logic that there is no god, you are going to prove that there is no god, because you don't have on-hand point of reference to determine if your answer is right or not. Equally if you want to prove with logic that god exists you will also prove it, just because your final premise is to do something, logically and not deconstructing past events.
Logic can't prove that there is a god or that there is no god. The most logical positions are agnostic theism or atheism. Any others are based on faith. Back to depression. My only premise is that life to me is more suffering than it's worth. And it's not getting better, it's getting worse with age. I'm not unlovable, I have reason to live. I also have reason to not continue suffering. It's been 20 years since I was able to determine I am depressed. I'm giving it another 5 years to see if I can live instead of being lived and I am going to visit a psychiatrist. Again. If shit doesn't at least start looking better then that could very well be it.
We see the same but think different. There is suffering in life, yes it's a lot. It bends your spine and breaks your femurs with ease, yet a human keeps healing the wounds back up. There is a beauty in that. You are intoxicated by that beauty, repelled by it's appeal to our own humanity, I am on a high from seeing it's crescent cycle. We are not given a thing when we are born yet we are born. To chose death right now is playing roulette with the possibilities, which you are not forced to play, just for the sake of fulfilling your desire to give in to your feral fear response that is extremism and simplification of your reality which is inhuman. Remain full of humanity, especially in a day and age as bustling with discovery and creation as ours. A more pragmatic motivator can be this: anti aging science and AI are developing at an increased rate ever since 2021 and if you live long enough to see results of one or the other, many of your problems will be easier to carry, the pain not comparing to the pleasure. Do not lose hope.
I have an IQ of 139. 140 would consider you to be a genius and is pretty rare. Ever since I had depresssion I have always thought of trying to just “logic” itself out as exactly as how you stated. However, it never works. I’ve worked out, eat well, and have good experiences and still feel bland or numb. This is a video I needed to re-route how I think of my depression so thank you so much.
Hey there, It's good to know that you're trying to get better and have found a new way out of your depression. You posted this 3 months ago so I hope you're doing well now, and belive you're trying your best. Good luck to you. You'll definitely get better. Have a good day or night. -Random stranger on internet.
I’m with you. I sit at about a 138. What I’ve realized is that being aware of your emotions IS logical. Ignoring emotions or suppressing them is pointless because we are human and they will always exist. Being aware that I am inherently an animal with primal fears is what helped me understand how to best take care of my emotions. You can’t logically reason with a scared animal. Often times, sitting with and allowing the emotion to exist naturally instead of suppressing it in favor of logic is the most logical thing to do imo
So true. You should take steps to fix things, but I found that just going through day to day blindly believing "everything's gonna work out" without thinking how it will logically happen has helped me much more than trying to think of detailed steps of getting me out of many situations. Usually everything worked out in ways I never expected or never factored in.
Right. The problem with trying to solve everything by yourself is that you aren't by yourself. You're in a world where a lot of wild and unpredictable things happen.
I rely on art a lot. I've figured that when something feels too overwhelming, the first thing I have to do is to "let it out". Painting, taking pictures, writing, anything is good as long as I can have that feeling as something tangible. Art does wonders, you can express an emotion even if you can't name it.
Yep, when I used logic, I was at my worst. I’ve also decided to go along with life and be like “whatever happens happens and it’s meant to be” and honesty, although I am not 100% better, it’s been more helpful than using logic with everything
Same here. I learned how to convince myself of some things that I don’t actually believe are true, but they’re helpful for my mental health. Like “everything happens for a reason,” for example. I don’t actually believe that, but I can put myself in that mindset anyway and it helps me quite a bit. Astrology is another that I know isn’t actually true, but it’s a framework that helps me organize my thoughts and emotions. I’ve yet to find a term for this simultaneous believing-but-not-believing.
Man, the part near the end when he addresses feeding the cycle of depression by being unable to "fix" it and the guilt of failing constantly really got to me. Good video, it's good to have more awareness.
Same here i really could relate with the last part cause friends and even one of my girlfriends said : Your so smart ...you helped me with my problems why can't you help yourself emotionally the same way ? Than i realized..why dafaq can i not take MY OWN ADVISE , which already was capable to fix that girls alcohol and drug problems to help and fix my life situation?! (Which in comparison is really not that fucked up) All i have to do is find a job / apprenticeship which doesn't burn me out , fuel my depression and make me think about suicide doing it for the next 2,5/3,5 years 8-10 hours a day. Seems easy enough right? And everytime i think about friends i wonder... How the hell can you handle 9 hour job , a child a wife , life struggles , stress have hobbies aswell and not feel a single bit exhausted?! The thought alone working 10 hours a day 5-6 days a week feeling exhausted after work every day falling asleep to wake up the next day to work 8-10 hours again... And repeat. That SCREAMS depression , burning out to me ( and i actually experienced it myself this way) And it looks like i'm the only one who can't understand why you would live your life like this. All the other people , my parents , friends , doesn't seem to have that struggle and it always confuses me. Is the society the problem? Or am i the problem here? I simply can't understand why would someome dedicate so much time and energy into a job or apprenticeships in general , which in the end doens't even fullfills you? Why waste 60-70% of your day with a job... just for money?? It's a concept and lifestyle nobody seems to have a problem with ... Well they probably have a problem with it but they just accept it. "Cause that's just life lol" "Your just lazy Dude" "If you don't do it you will live on the streets" "Get used to it kid" I hate those kind if comments about my opinion and i can just tell you my own experience Appreticeships/ Jobs make me feel misarable. To a point where i think that there is no job in this world which actually fullfills me and i actually WANT to go there and not just for money.
Man this is so valuable for people with depression. It took me years to figure this exact thing out on my own. Also this is tougher for high IQ ADHD people, because they are at such a IQ / EQ imbalance. High IQ and ADHD is basically a recipe for depression.
I suspend it can be my situation, is there any like... General direction that can lead to sorting everything out? I've been scouring mental health and self-improvement info for an almost a year now and had very little success in actually implying it, rn i'm all about rational thinking and stuff, but this video reminded me that maybe actually i should not think at all, but it is.. not easy... And i'm too poor to afford professional. I would be glad to hear some advice
@@mrgenry6055 something that helps me is to not expect all the answers to be in my head, I might need to go and interact in the world and with others and just being there instead of analyzing more. Also learning to live with loose ends without trying to tie all of them up. Not sure if this helps, but thought I’d offer.
There is a quote i read a long time ago that i like to use to describe my depression, "the more the human mind understands about reality, the more it seeks to destroy itself" that quote has been the one that stuck with me the most.
Also highly intelligent people often deal with loneliness. It's hard to find people who they can have stimulating conversation with or find people with similar interests/hobbies. Loneliness often leads to depression too
Yes I noticed that in a lot of my friends too, which means intelligent needs to accompany with empathy and pure interest in other people (with low expectation of it needing to provide you values in anyway) to help establish connection on emotional level and not just intellectual level for next generational human that can survive Darwin’s award.
This is so true. I’ve found I don’t have difficulty doing small talk with colleagues, classmates and such, but when it comes to actually forming relationships I really feel so distant to everyone else. I don’t think I’m highly intelligent though hahaha.
Yep, I feel that. I don't have friends who share my hobbies, and to add to it, I have autism, which means I can't do small talk, only meaningful conversations, which leads to not talking to the people I know which leads to losing friends.
Yes this kinda happened in my case too, not saying that I'm intelligent but I have always struggled to find someone with the same interests and perspectives. It got to the point where I lost all sorts of motivation and caused me to drop out of college temporarily.
This is so interesting! It reminds me of what I say when someone says I must be great in university because I'm smart. I always say "No, I'm smart enough to rationalize procrastinating or not doing my work". Growing up, happiness is glorified, unpleasant emotions are demonized, and neutrality is ignored. I've realized feeling sad isn't fun, but I don't need to escape it. I also try to take note of feeling neutral and appreciate it for the calm it brings . I also like to use past experience to remind myself that my extreme emotions are temporary, for example "I'm really overwhelmed right now. I know I'll feel better by tomorrow, so I need to focus on taking care of myself for now." And then I just wallow a bit cause sometimes that's what you need.
You got me crying because you just described me.. & this line “ I’m smart enough to rationalize procrastinating or not doing work “ hits harder because i have midterms and yet haven’t started studying,💔
Also I think sometimes we procrastinate bc it’s not something we care enough for and u can’t force urself to care and that’s bc some of us have executive dysfunction and I can’t logic my way out even when the deadline is looming near.
Lately I feel like giving up but my parrots have special needs and I'm afraid of what would happen to them. They would be so confused and I don't know who would give them the care they need. The thought of them feeling scared and not being taken care of and suffering is the worst. That unpleasant scenario is keeping me here. I refuse to abandon them. I will fight depression for them.
@@kristym8641 I feel you, I have two adorable cats and I don't want to leave them to suffer if I am gone, I promised them to not leave them no matter what, I wish you strength to keep going 🙏
@@kristym8641 Same. My cat is getting old and is very attached to me emotionally. I can theoretically leave him to my mother but I fear that he'll feel sad and confused if I suddenly disappear. So I have decided to keep myself alive at least until he gets to pass away peacefully.
As one of the greatest depression researchers of the last century said - the people in depression tend to have the most objective and clearest view of the world and human condition.
I definitely tried this multiple times.. I am a very very logical person and I have to do a lot of analysis regardless of how I feel so I know why I feel that way.. Writing it down, talking it out with a therapist, HG coach, etc. It was not enough. Professionally got diagnosed by a doc with severe depression and had to get Zoloft daily.. Helped TREMENDOUSLY.. Did a rescaling of my regular day to day feelings after month 6 and my depression and anxiety levels went from maximum 10 all the way to 0 and 1....
I am not depressed but there are a few people in my life who are. This video was very insightful, thank you. I am one of those fiercely logical people and I have realized lately that the more logical I am to someone to try and help the more upset or emotional they seem to get. This video made me realize I was 1 of those "smart" kids that relied on logic over emotion so don't have much EQ. I am trying to learn.
Same, I used to take pride in being "level headed" and not feeling anything, and would logic anything and everything. Accidentally developed an anxiety disorder 6 months ago by isolating, eating horrible food constantly, never exercising and only ever playing games 12 hours a day and nothing more. Straight from bed to computer and back again. Learning about how to get over the disordered anxiety response has completely opened my eyes to the concept of just sitting with an emotion and doing nothing about it. Now I'm kinda flipped where I'm hyoerfocused inward and paying too much attention to every single feeling I feel. Working that back down. I wasn't even aware of this entire world of emotions and what to do with them or how to feel feelings until now
I love the fact that you are so open to accept and understand this thing 🫂 as a person who experienced depression still trying my best to heal .. whenever I approached anyone they seem to put logic in it which was not making sense to me because what they are saying I do know that ( they do care about me ) but what i was struggling with ...i had hard time explaining it to them ...most of the time i end up crying or feel low . Thank you so much for understanding. 🌷
i'm extremely logical too. but indeed try to see, do and say no more and no less than what is required for their next step. sometimes it's a hug. sometimes advice. but the whole road to get out of it? they can't see it like you do so in all it makes them even less confident because 'apparantly it should be obvious' 🙏
I mean the fact you're trying to learn about it maybe means your EQ is higher than you think it is, some people don't even bother understanding other people's struggles
I used to be quite emotional, but dumped some of them, because I was becoming suicidal from it. I used to hate logical people 😅 cause it just comes off as very unsympathetic, inhuman almost. We're not robots. Now that I think more logically, I kind of find emotional ppl to be annoyingly irrational or just plain silly. Many times feelings are just pointless fluff that don't actually do or contribute anything, it's just random bizarre outbursts that have no basis in reality.
I was on the verge of searching for therapists after trying and failing to cure my depression with logic for 6 months. I open RUclips and Dr. K uploads this. Dr. K never misses.
A good therapist WILL help you, depressed or not. I think its always good to have a therapist. Nowadays the stigma is going away too. Many of my friends have therapists and tell me what they learned all the time.
@@ronniedulaymi8527 I totally understand what you mean. I will 100% get one. The stigma faded away for me when I found Dr. K so that's not a worry. And thank you for the encouragement. :)
I remember being especially younger and longed to be a stupider person because while I did fine in elementary and middle school it seemed like if you were not quite as smart you didn't calculate risks and it allowed them to do all these other fulfilling things like ask girls out and have these relationships that I wished I could have. I probably still feel this way much longer into adulthood.
The risk taking thing is definitely a relatable aspect. Having done the “calculations” I tend to avoid taking risks that don’t guarantee at least some sort of return. As a result I’ve never asked a girl out or taken a big financial risk. Using logic I have come to terms with the single life. 😂
I couldn’t agree more with this comment. I never asked girls out, never tried out for sports, never signed up for clubs, had a very small tight-knit group of friends, never attempted to take the SAT or ACT, and didn’t have the slightest inkling on what I wanted to do with my life after high school, the list goes on and on and on man. The only things that give me pleasure in life is food, marijuana, and sleep.
I suffered severe depression and mental disorder due to my addiction to heroin. Not until my mom recommended me to psilocybin mushrooms treatment. Psilocybin treatment saved my life honestly. 6 years totally clean. Never thought I would be saying this about mushrooms.
they saved you from death bud, lets be honest here. and mushrooms are one of the most amazing things on this planet i wish people would all realize. they could solve a lot of problems, more than just mental treatments, environmental clean up; the possibilities are endless with fungus.
Mushrooms are healthy , I do them once a year near Christmas and it gives me a boost of happiness until they start growing again , we were always supposed to be doing mushrooms
As someone who suffers from an auto-immune disease, hearing the analogy of "depression is the auto-immunity of mental illness" was genuinely an eye opener. Now, being able to actually change from hearing new information and new ways of looking at life is still extremely difficult, but at least with the more lenses we have, the easier a resolution is able to be achieved.
I'm in the top 2% and the awareness factor is definitely huge. It's not really surprising that if you recognize our world is basically a dumpster fire right now and you as an individual have essentially no power to change it, yeah that's gonna trigger hopelessness and depression pretty easily.
I wouldn't say I'm top 2%, but tested in 7th, above average, and I can say, the self awareness is just existential crisis. We as humans do things with purpose. It's when you start asking why we do anything where the purpose starts to slip away. Smart people are depressed because they question everything. All you have to do is ask "why" and continue until you reach the inevitable conclusion that nothing really matters. In less than 100 years, you'll be gone, and all progression is at a permanent standstill while the world around you moves on as if you were never there. And it's a continuous cycle. And even if there's an afterlife, wealth, loved ones, objects, none of which you can take with you, but all of which you suffered for. It just doesn't make any sense; how emotion and motivation and curiosity are so meaningless but it's what makes us human. Life is a gift. The chances of you being alive are infinitesimal, and there's something bliss about that. But why....
@@tastefulsubstancet's important to regain some perspective in that case. It can feel hopeless to do anything once you fall into existential dread, because we'll all be gone and forgotten, but remember that your life isn't happening a hundred years from now, it's happening in the present. Our unique positive human experiences, our thoughts and feelings and our shared humanity is exactly what gives our life here and now meaning. And even if no-one remembers or records it, the acts of billions of people ripple throughout the world, forming our lives like grains of sand form a beach. Our society has a tendency to worship fame and individuals (to the point where history is reduced to just a string of names rather than the shared reality of millions of people at the time), but everyone is significant in their own small way. I found that living with this realisation and trying to maximise the positive impact I have on society or other individuals has really given my life meaning.
You can't fix the entire world, but you can change quite a lot if you put your mind to it and work hard. And you certainly can take control of _your own_ life. It may not seem logical at first, but that hope and self-belief is essential to actually changing the world. We gotta take care not to fall into that hopelessness trap, even if it seems reasonable. Cause that shit's hard to get out of. Logic works against us there.
For me it’s the constant awareness that nobody really knows what we’re doing here. Nobody knows who we are, nobody knows what existence really is, and all possible explanations are almost equally as terrifying as each other. Whether it’s a tyrannical god, an infinite ocean of all imaginable realities, as well as all ineffable realities repeating themselves independent of space-time for all of eternity, or a it’s a freak accident that resulted in conscious beings by sheer happenstance, it’s all paralyzingly horrifying. I don’t know what to do.
Agree. I found this channel out of nowhere, this particular video being the first or second one I'm watching. It's probably the best talk I have ever seen in my 39-year old life. I was a gifted but abused child in a broken middle class family with an estranged father and, instead, an older brother whose hyperactivity disorder and insecurities made him go after me in every way imaginable. Try and logic your way out of that hole, feeling you deserve the best life has to offer, take healthy risks with the opposite sex and simply "live a little". I remember viewing myself as an unemotional robot in my teenage years- gifted, but different from others.
@@84Supervisor hey I’m so sorry it took this long to get back, I rarely see my RUclips notifications. I am so sorry that happened to you. I had something happen to me that was really traumatic growing up as well. It caused so much anguish in my life that I have been forced to understand how transformative it was. Took me 30 years. So I hear you. I really wish there were videos like this when I was in my early 20s or even younger. I didn’t deserve to hate myself and feel so anxious all the time. And neither did you.
i have a reasonably high IQ in the 130s. i also have diagnosed bipolar and ADHD. i took these IQ and diagnostic tests under the supervision of a psychologist fyi. when i was off my meds and retested during a depressive episode, my IQ was barely 90. being depressed nukes your IQ temporarily. once i was stable on new medications and in therapy, i was tested again. my IQ increased by 2 points from the initial testing. I think developing a higher EQ can help strengthen your IQ.
Bipolar AND adhd… wow dude you are a strong guy!! My therapist and I are having suspicions about a bipolar disorder type 2 diagnosis and l really got scared for a sec. So I’m trying to navigate all of these things while also having a somewhat high IQ. I hope you’re feeling even better than when you wrote this comment, and thanks for giving me a little bit of hope for my situation
Here’s what at least worked for me to snap me out of a 8yr depression pit from 22-30. I noticed my mind/ego was playing tricks on me giving me this idea I was not worthy of good things because of my childhood upbringing being told this over and over by a parent. As a child hearing these types of things over and over seeded this belief deep inside me without me realizing it at the time because I remember I never agreed with the statements at the time but little did I know it wouldn’t really effect my self worth until I was in my 20s. Maybe hearing such toxic things being said about you as a child by a parent (father) that society teaches us we should always listen to and obey was the only way my child self could make sense of it. Apologies as English isn’t my native language so I may not be articulating this as best as could be. Simply put- child loves parents, parent abuses and tells child they are useless/stupid/and the reason for any trouble/problems in the household etc, child tries to makes sense of this but is not possible as child would dare to question/talk back to said parent so the only way subconsciously maybe even is for child to believe what parent says about their child because why else would a parent beat/abuse/punish us if it wasn’t true… (remember as a child we are always told by society/culture/school to be obedient to our elders and especially our parents as they supposedly “love” us more than anyone and brought us into this world so they know what’s best for us. 😅 Anyway I went off tangent but basically I noticed I wasn’t doing anything in life because I actually perceived myself to be worthless and therefore incompetent to make anything of myself etc. Instead of dissecting my deeply rooted childhood trauma and seeing it for what it was, I instead just always made excuses for myself whenever I wouldn’t do something I knew I should have done that would lead to better my life. This coping mechanism became habitual to the point I thankfully noticed myself having a victim mentality to excuse my own self to anything and everything in life that I feared to do (most likely out of fear of failure or rejection). TLDR Victim mentality was killing my potential to do anything in life and I kept using it as an excuse. Had to teach myself/ learn how to genuinely love myself as I never did growing up because in my head I will always be worthless/stupid since this was what I always heard from my parent of whom I should love and listen to since this is what society and schools generally teach us. Slow at first but once momentum started to build up, the thick depression fog/cloud finally cleared out of my life. Sorry for the ramble, I honestly thought I would just write a quick sentence or two going into it but got carried away and can go on in detail but at the end of the day, this is just my story in a general sense. I truly believe everyone of us still in that dark place, whether it was our fault to begin with or not, we can and WILL rise out of it into this beautiful light of life that we have been far too long without. 🤟🖤
This is so true. We get told we're trouble, that we're stupid when we do/don't do this thing, that we'll be worthless if we don't obey. Yeah. It leaves you feeling impotent. Like you can't amount to anything, so what's the point?
I’ve been dealing with this for months. I keep trying to get past it thru exercise, healthier diet, decreased alcohol consumption… it only stuns the beast momentarily.
Struggled with this for so long and i still am but it’s getting better. The fact that i also have ADHD makes it awful. When i first started college my GPA was 3.9 and i was on the deans list for some time but when the depression + mental purgatory started to secure a place, it dropped to a 1.9. I was unable to function and do anything. My room stayed dirty and things started to seem useless. Suicide made the most sense to me at one point and i felt as if i slipped into a hole that was impossible to get out of. It was like a video game boss that was impossible to beat. You can make progress, do some damage, pull off some clever maneuvers, and put up a good fight but you ultimately NEVER actually BEAT it. At least that’s what it felt like. I started to see hope when i deleted all of my social media. I started to train Muay Thai and MMA seriously and fight competitively. I also started to dive deep into my musical instruments and music production. I was completely away from social media and i stopped gaming for a while as well. I changed my diet, and developed a strict routine. I ran 3-5 miles every morning, hit the heavy bag, and pushed myself as much as physically possible. I also practiced my craft everyday. I started to become happy with personal progress and i had no care or attention to the outside world. It all changed when i got perspective from a guy who was from a different country(he was from Haiti i believe but i could be wrong). His worldview was so different. the aspirations, motivations, and overall meaning of life was SO much different. The things he found important were very common but different at the same time. The concept of suicide, depression, and many other things that are common in American society was almost foreign to him. Idk exactly what changed but i took something so important from that. I’m still trying to make sense of why that changed me because it feels too good to be true. Something that doesn’t seem like much of an answer or a escape put a battery in my back and changed me. I’m in such a weird state of my mind but i just know that i can’t stop because i refuse to go back to how i used to be. Still making sense of things and trying to figure out the direct cause of this change but one thing i know for damn sure is that i feel much better
Well done man, my journey was kind of similar in that i too turned to running. I was around 150KG at my worst and had to hold my breath to tie up my shoe laces because of my stomach was so big, took 4 years but got down to 75KG and haven't looked back since. I failed so many times early because i was exercising for all the wrong reasons i was trying to do it because of high expectations i put on myself, but when i started to do it for selfless reasons it got so easy it felt like i was gliding. I got inspiration from sports people that i thought who were perfect but they themselves explained had similar experiences in that they too thought they were worthless based on outcomes of games. They emphasised love, selflessness and appreciation on everything day to day no matter how big or small it was and to not entirely focus on outcomes, it made them happier, more fulfilled and ulimately more successful people, it really unlocked how i could use those same lessons to combat my own depression/anxiety.
I’ve never been suicidal but definitely have felt hopeless (especially recently). I consider myself a decently intelligent person. I do so many of the things you say here in this video. I feel like know what makes me depressed. I feel like I know what I need to do to fix it. But I never do. I’d almost rather sit in my sorrow. I know it isn’t healthy but it’s how I behave. Quite frustrating
Brian, just let it be and don't focus on it. Focus on things that are better and work on them. Work on happiness and make it outweigh your sadness. Focus on things that make you feel good in a genuine way. Simple, yet rewarding things. Learn to express happiness.
This is what is meant by the phrase "being too smart for your own good." It takes a certain degree of folly to actually be optimistic about our own lives and futures.
If pain exists, that's because pleasure does. What on Earth makes you think it is the more intelligent decision to focus on pain? Reality as i see it though, is that outlook and intelligence are unrelated. It doesn't take intelligence to see horror or beauty. What does take intelligence is to understand that what you chose to focus on was BOTH a choice and not a choice.
As I've gotten older, I can't cry. When I used to be able to cry, it was very cathartic. It is nature's anti-depressant. I have seen a few counselors who are hung up on DBT and kept asking me, "Well, what are you going to do after you cry?" They were insinuating that crying isn't a long-term solution. I would say to them, "I'm going to feel much better and be able to function better." OMG, soooo many opinions out there!
My therapist tells me the opposite in our sessions. She says cry, cry out loud, I see you choking the tears back. Don’t be ashamed of it. And you are right. It is cathartic. We need it. I hope you find why there is such a disconnect. For me, it was simply that I got tired of appearing weak. Perhaps, somewhere along the lines, someone told me that, and it affected me more than I realized. As I look back at it, I was able to recall that my family often considered my overly emotional states as “weak.” Referring to me always as “the soft one, the weak one, the one without a backbone.” It was quite the opposite. I only had outbursts because I couldn’t take swallowing the pain back anymore. There were many chaotic, violently disruptive things going on in my house. I could not just ignore them. It hurt to see my family in that state, but they were just so content to perpetuate it instead of fix it. As someone who is a fixer-yeah, I was in hell when they didn’t let me fix it. So ya. I shut down. Idk why I’m saying all this. Perhaps I hope you find some clarity with my example. Take care ❤ you are valid, and your feelings are valid, and so are your needs and wants. Even if that is crying. Some may think it’s silly, but there are people out here like myself and my therapist that don’t think that. We think it’s necessary too.
Also, I am sure to some crying is a sign that they are alive and can still feel. I am sure you can still feel the full spectrum of emotions. Simply there is something that needs to be addressed to reconnect that bridge. That’s what I think. ❤
I rarely could cry not that long ago and it was horrible. I sometimes felt the need to cry but just couldn’t, it was like even my eyes betrayed me. Now I cry more often and while I hate that I am in this position, I’m really glad I’m able to express and release these emotions
Hypersensative amygdala makes you only focus on the negative, thus hijacking your perception. Being highly emotional also hijacks your Logic. Thus distorting your analysis and conclusions. This explains why there has been times where I was depressed, i literally felt helpless, like my life was over. Then when the depression was gone I always became astonished like "wtf was I thinking. It wasn't that bad. How could i not see it wtf"
It is incredibly scary, I've even had anxiety over even remembering the thoughts I had back in the peak of my depression, literally thinking that my life was so empty and feeling caged in my own existance, to the point that the only logical solution for me was to end it. It scares me that I didn't even felt sad about it, I felt sad that I couldn't do it. I was 100% convinced that it was the only way. Today I am much better, and still working on healing, and have not even thought of that final solution in years, but it terrifies me to believe that at some point in my future, life could kick me so hard that I can fall into that endless spiral of twisted thoughts once again. Depression fucks with your brain and mind like nothing else. SEEK HELP, and if you can, get out of whichever toxic circle is causing this to you, it doesn't matter what else you might need to give up or lose, there's nothing else that you can't recover or replace, except for your own life.
Just wanted to say that I can relate, when you’re at the bottom of the black hole it truly is a terrifying place to be. Your perception of the world and every aspect of it becomes so heavily negatively tainted to the point that it almost feels like you’re going insane, an absolute shell of a person. Anyway, I’m glad you have managed to find your way out of it at times, I myself have too, but always seem to forget how exactly I came out of it when depression strikes again Anyway,
OMFG thank you. This has been my perpetual curse. I remember, when I was 9, I'd go for walks so I could be alone, and I'd just cry because I was aware of all the really horrible things in the world, and I wished I wasn't aware of them. I wished I could have a lobotomy (yes, I was 9 and knew what a lobotomy was), so that I could be stupid. I just wanted to be blissfully unaware of all the crap floating around in my head.
Oh. I don't know why, but I burst into tears when I watched this video for about 2 minutes. I think my depression, which is now cured, kind of traumatized me or something... As always, many thanks for your content.
Just because you cried doesn't necessarily mean you are sad or have trauma. Tears can indicate happiness or acceptance as well. When I feel choked up at "My friends, you bow to no one!", it's not sadness I am feeling.
Man, I'm 41 this year, and it wasn't until I found your channel that I've come to really see some of the major issues I've been dealing with. Just having this information now helps me to feel calmer and more confident about healing my mind going forward. Thank you so much! You're helping so many people and I'm really grateful I found your channel.
Thanks to Doc K. This peace of information is really groundbraking, I don’t think I heard anyone mentioning this particular and very crucial fact elswhere, although there use to be this anecdotal folk saying among people that “depression is the thing of intellectual people”. What really bothers me now, is the Aspect of ‘suicidity’ and ‘self-destruction’(which could be a form of ‘slow suicide’). Where does it come from and why it is (same as self opposed logic) is so eager to self harm and destruct. I feel, surelly at least partly, it stems from feelings of ‘hurt’ etc., that you just wanna leave everything so bad, and not exist anymore, but same as self opposed logic, it is so unexplainably ridiculous and dumb, that that state, feeling and actions of self-townt/destruction, can be very prolonged, causing self pain/harm, but for example not taking the step to actually suicide (eg. Passive suicide ideation), which shows that, whatever that is (logic, hurt, …) is not fully commited to some final action or solution, but commited to cause self harm. Interwsting aspect of that also is very prevalent feelings of self shame/hate in depressed people, over the top self-judgment. Also there can be aspect’s of trauma/betrayal patchology. I would say, coming to some positive conclusion, that it all might show “damaged inner conection”, with ‘inner child’/Soul/Spirit, and those negative feelings are expressions of that. This is where traditional psychology lacks and don’t have and do not present answers, dealing mostly with outcomes and symptoms. Only some talented and deepest seekers of truth in life questions and professionalism like Carl Gustav Jung, and others, where readilly perceiving deeper, meanings and were freely interconecting ‘Spirit science’, hence psychology from Latin, is Psyche (soul, mind), Logia (science, study). And when people are dealing with self destruction it’s is really hard not to look and hear what Spirituality says about ‘inner battle’ etc. Facing demons/Shadow/devil etc.
A lot of very smart people are undiagnosed autistics. If you only knew how hard life us as an undiagnosed autistic. Since getting diagnosed last year, and learning to understand my autism, I wonder how I made it as far as I did.
I took an EQ test "for fun". I am very very below average on everything but empathy. Empathy is pretty much like everyone else. I suck at emotions and its killing me literally
I don't think that because of your score low means you aren't good with your emotions. You can't over analyze it because you could make yourself more depressed. I like that Dr. K shares his own experience and understanding of emotion. I think you are more than a test score.
I truly believe that peoples who suffer from depression are the strongest one, they go through stress, pain, aimless target without feeling any pleasure, any hope and they still choose to live.
Reading this comment really touched my heart. I think when you are in a deep bout of depression that everything seems hopeless and the negative intrusive thoughts can be debilitating. I never thought about it from the perspective that persisting through that is strength in itself. I saved this comment so I can read it when I am feeling down on myself and to remind myself - “Look I am strong because I keep moving forward in spite of my emotional state” Thank you!
I think what most therapists forget to realize is depression really depends a lot on the environment. I lived in UK for a while, I was a very smart and productive kid I got best student of the year award. I went back to Iran, if you haven't heard already just search up Iran's situation. In these scenarios, what am I supposed to do? Not feel depressed? Not feel that nothing matters no matter what I do there's no escape from this hell called Iran? When there's a huge problem out of your reach and control what are you supposed to do? Even if I change my perception, the fact remains that Iran is hell...
Mark Fisher has written a lot about how socio-economic factors play a huge role in depression and that it never has been purely an individual but a societal problem
So I’ve seen a couple of your videos, and I’ve always felt like you were talking ABOUT someone, this one, this one really felt like you were talking to me. Thank you.
That makes so much sense I'm wondering how I never connected the dots. Never heard it put this way before (never been to therapy or anything unfortunately), but it could also be that you are just S+ tier at explaining things in a way that makes sense to people without all the technical information. Thank you so much for doing what you do, man! You are an absolute saint.
A few years ago I got to my lowest low, I had never attempted, but it was always on my mind, basically every waking moment. Luckily got help that turned down the flow of suicidal thoughts from 99.9% to ~10%. I was able to get off the medication, and after a couple more years, I've finally gotten to the point where I've started to recognize my short comings with my emotional capabilities and start working on them. It has not been a fast process, nothing that matters ever really is, but I am feeling so much more "normal" and happy than I ever have in my life. Just... Stay strong, as strong as you can. Always try, because it will be worth the effort.
THANK YOU!!! As someone who tends to look at things very logically and from an unbiased perspective to solve it, I can assure you I couldn’t “solve” my way out of depression. It goes beyond any sort of reasoning or inner workings, it bleeds into the very soul, and that is what people who don’t have it chronically can’t understand.
I always tell therapist-types that I’m not voluntarily leaving this world before I do something great. I’m a Leo, I need to shine. But I’m so tired and depressed I’m not really doing anything except getting through each day 😢
Came here to find help for my ADHD people, but am immensely thankful for the help I am personally receiving from this channel. Your radical move away from Harvard is doing some pretty amazing things for this world. Sending you a huge thank you.
It took a long time for me to recognize this pattern personally. When one is emotionally compromised, they can end up feeling logically convinced that their current perception of reality is the ONLY one there is. The stronger the emotion, the stronger the conviction. And the stronger the desire to not want that point of view to be countered by others. Ironically, no matter how well reasoned the point of view may seem at that time, often it is the emotions driving the thinking, rather than the other way around. (during the compromised state of mind) Since getting a reality check with others who are not emotionally compromised for the moment is helpful, indulging the habit or compulsion toward social isolation can become unhelpful, since at that point the only one available to save the emotionally drowning person is the emotionally drowning person.
Man, I wish you had been my psych. You could have saved me years of running around feeling depressed and anxious. I knew I was logically correct, and I knew that I was sad. And I had no way of reconciling those two realities. This perspective would have helped me so much, and I'm really glad you're getting it out there.
I have an interesting take on this, I kind of came to this same conclusion but differently. I was depressed and used logic for everything. Later I got a chronic illness and had to realize that no matter how hard I tried to understand this illness not even the biggest professionals know how to treat it. I could either spend all my energy trying to figure this thing out or just realize that I don't know what the fuck to do for the most part and use that energy else where. That really took me away from thinking too logically. It allowed me to step away and just feel the world around me and not feel like I had to find the answer or understand it and it's okay to not know because logically there is actually a lot we will never fully understand, and even if we think we do It may be proven otherwise much later. I was able to go "you know what I really like spending time with someone" instead of asking why I just did it and enjoyed the feeling. or if I didn't' like something I didn't over analyze it and try to fix it I just allowed myself to not do it. however I want to mention depression can be very much linked to many illnesses (simply not having enough vitamin D can destroy your happiness and your ability to fix it)
Depression+Logic is almost more of a torment. The suicidal idealization that you mention is a very real threat. In addition, understanding that you need to get up and do something, but also being unable to do so, while telling yourself there's no rational reason that you cannot do said thing, absolutely makes you feel worse because "This is stupid, why am I not just doing this thing?" Being aware that it's entire "in your head", and despite that still being unable to do anything to change it in that moment... It's absolutely a sinking ship mentality. This is SUCH an important topic. Thank you so much for talking about this. And to anyone reading this: If you find yourself in that spiral of "I should be able to but I can't" and beating yourself up for it, please seek help. I've been to the bottom of that spiral and it doesn't end well.
I'm losing my fight in life because of this. I've been stuck in that cycle for a while now. I know exactly what I need to do but I cant seem to garner the strength to do it and you're right, the more I think about it the shittier I feel.
This is exactly where I’m at. It’s such a hole to dig myself out of, because I know, I KNOW if I just do certain things, (exercise, diet, therapy, cleaning, etc) I will eventually feel better. I’ll feel better after doing said thing but I just don’t.
Same here. I hope we can get it through. I sometimes feel better and can do at least something, but then fall into a pit again. I know for sure that beating up urself for it is unnecessary, if you can, next time think that it's okay and try later. There should be something that will eventually work, right? We have a lot of examples here of such people.
It's like 2 voices in your head Spoke and Cpt. Kirk... Kirk has some genuinely good ideas sometimes to rise to an occasion, to a moment. However Spock keeps whittling down Kirk until the compromise has become a poorer choice lile indecisiveness... And you have to come to terms that you are not Schizophrenic. But rather self-critical and still burdened with indeciveness.. am i ill or do i simply have a point.
You are right up my alley. The way you dissect illnesses and complexes and your perspective is spot on and I've not come across someone who tells it so succinctly with such gusto. You are a godsend
Me as a medical student, I thought depressing is just because of the thing that I face. But actually because I’m extreme logical in stuff. When I feel good, It’s very useful. But when I feel bad, I thought why I’m so ‘overthinking’. But when I found this clip, bro I’m so thankful😊. I reallize why I am so good about analyzing but hurt so much when I use logic to solve my emotion. Many time depression give me bad assumptions and now I understand now why it happened. Also this ensures me why I need meditation for develop my emotional awareness. Thankyou again❤
@iib_bronych.3572 Hi, im also a medical student and it looks like i have been suffering from the same problem with you and also this video helped me to change my perspective to look at my problem. If it is ok can i get ur any social media account so that way i can ask some questions and talk about this topic with you.😊
Dr K. thank you from the bottom of my heart for this video, I have dealt with depression from a very young age and within 20 mins of watching you explain I feel like I have made a break through… you may have actually saved my life. To think this video was free is insane. Again Thank you so much I’m nearly 24y/o now and although sometimes I feel I’ve not achieved enough due to my mental instability I now finally feel like I can build on top of this and start living my life to the fullest ❤❤👊🏼
After years of therapy, some highs, mostly lows, I think I now understand why it seems not to help in a long run. As a prisoner of thought processes and slave of compulsive behaviours, son of an alcoholic and simultaneous victim of bullies in early years of my life, with literally no safe place to escape but virtual worls, always stuck on a battlefield of thinking things trough for a search of a way out and on a constant fight with social anxiety I fully resonate. Funny, how for a fair while in a row each time I feel stuck on my adventure to improve myself and face another obstacle, trying to break a wall with my head you emerge with another answer to my exact problem. Thank you for what you are doing Alok, you are a safe haven for uncountable amount of people. Much love to you and to all people reading. Stay strong ya'll.
My logic led me down a decade long rabbit hole of depression. I would have small spurts where things seemed to improve for a couple months but i was never able to pull myself out completely. I am very intelligent but my emotional awareness and social skills lack substantially. It doesn't help that I spent years alone stuck in a "end it or not" loop. I wanted so badly to stop feeling because I was so ashamed of myself. I tried so hard to find an answer... now I know why that didn't work. Thank you HG
The problem for me is that I just really really *want* to logic my way out of it. It’s ironic, of course, because doing the same thing that hasn’t worked before is itself illogical but no matter how many times it fails, telling myself that I just didn’t logic hard enough will always be a more palatable proposition to me than trying to build emotional intelligence because I just don’t want to have to acknowledge my emotions; I’m scared of my emotions. I’ve been trained from childhood to see my emotions as dangerous. It’s hard to get help with this because I’m not even comfortable talking about my emotions with therapists. I’ve had about 5 therapists throughout my life and every time it’s just been too easy to talk in circles about vague abstract philosophy for an hour so the conversation never has to get real. Every single time I go I tell myself this time I’m not gonna do that but then I do it anyway. Honestly, I hate hearing that emotional acknowledgment is the answer because I hate the experience of having emotions. I wish I was like a rock or something, just stoically floating through space never feeling anything. Makes me think of that line from that song: “if life’s not beautiful without the pain, I think I just would rather never even see beauty again”
I feel very similarly. Especially about the continued failures to logically snap myself out of it- I just keep trying again and again because a part of me knows I should be completely fine, and keeps trying to convince the rest of me that that is true, but it never works. It is so frustrating especially because this began relatively recently and I was doing great before.
maybe show your therapist this video to kind of out yourself without having to say anything. the unfortunate thing is not all therapists can handle clients like us with this thought pattern. i’m currently on the search for an out-patient therapist coming out of an in-patient ed program which just adds another layer to my problems and in turn another specificity that filters out available therapists as well as needing a trauma specialist of sorts. i will say i wish you the best of luck and i really do hope that you will find a lasting way through this that truly resonates with you
I think bc u can’t face ur emotions therapy won’t help at all. I think u should slowly let urself feel them alone. Ur traumatized and I’m sorry ur family failed u
@@amariza9013 Hey, I've been doing so so so much better in the past months and I remembered this comment and I just thought I'd say thank you and that it meant a lot at the time. I hope you are doing alright, let me know!
This could not have been more appropriate for me today. Had myself a good cry after. Thank you, Dr.K and everyone working to make these videos. Currently feeling a little less alone ❤
Emotions work like signposts. You can be conscious of them, not necessarily follow down their pathway ALL the time, but you can notice them and use them as a guide to things.
I've always been a "logical" thinker. I've always enjoyed problem-solving and figuring out how things work, which is definitely a double-edged sword when you can't "find the answer" to happiness (even though there is no one single answer). I've been in therapy now for a little over 2 years now and on meds for about a year and a half. I should've started therapy 9 years ago in high school when my dad was sick and passed from cancer, but my logical brain went into survival mode to help pay bills and pay for school. I also "felt fine" about it, like, yeah he was sick and passed, it's life-that's how death and loss affect me now, but that random grief with him comes and goes with hard cries every now and then of course. Other than that, I had a wonderful and privileged childhood with 2 loving parents who supported me with every interest I had. All my old hobbies, interests, and passions died, and the majority of things don't seem "fun" to me. I'm "fine" these days, things don't feel bad but they don't feel "great" per se-just kind of like floating in a weird purgatory from day to day. WAY better than I was over a year ago though, which is good to remember. The meds definitely helped with my chronic exhaustion, but don't seem as "effective" as other meds have been for people I know, and I'm on my 3rd med combo. When I try to do a hobby my brain processes it as a chore and says "this should be fun and enjoyable, but it DOESN'T FEEL fun and enjoyable.. WHY?!" and then I don't want to do it. It's the expectation of how it should be making me feel (here comes all my logical thinking). Nothing piques my interest enough-I've never found video games fun, if something isn't meant to physically help my living (like cleaning or cooking, although those also aren't fun) my brain says "there's no point in doing this" and is always searching for efficiency for functioning. I really liked what Dr. K said about how "you feel worse for not being able to fix the problem that I should be able to fix". It's true, it's a shame cycle. Something doesn't feel worth the time or effort, but I don't know what that other thing is and the answer should be "just do something no matter what it is if it serves a purpose or not", and then I do, hoping for that relief of fun and enjoyment, and when it isn't there shame, guilt, and frustration come in and it repeats. It's a cycle, and an indicator that habits need to change. I feel like I took a lot away from this video and will be bringing up these points to my psychiatrist and therapist in the next week.
I feel you in regards to hobbies and passions dying. I'm in a similar boat. I found Apigenin as a supplement helped to bring the passion and enjoyment back into my hobbies for around a week before the effects started to wear off. Not sure if it was a good idea though as I feel like I've slipped back into my normal ways again and it sucks! That one week was awesome, I felt 10 years younger and had interests in my hobbies, I'd lay awake at night too excited to fall asleep, planning out the following day. If anything, it has shown and reminded me what life 'should' feel like to live.
Isn't this the whole irony though? We are logical and good at analyzing stuff. If there was a cause for you to feel like shit, well then you'd have reason to feel like shit, so that is logic. This is why depression is a mental illness. It feels shit when it shouldn't. It's like illness, but rather than if affecting your lungs, it affects your mind. Both are important organs to function. All this logic but we struggle to put it together, because the brain has become biased agianst itself or something.
I’ve found that the word “should” is toxic. If I feel like I should do something because it’s good for me, it feels like a chore and I won’t do it consistently. However, if I consciously focus on what I like about a hobby or activity, and deliberately visualize myself enjoying it, that creates intrinsic motivation to do it. Of course it’s possible an activity isn’t for you, but even things I truly enjoy seem like a chore when I tell myself I “should” do them. It’s all about how you talk to yourself, and almost tricking your brain into coming at things from a different angle.
This is absolutely true. One of the problems my therapist helped me figure out was that I was consistently intellectualizing my depression and mental health in general and that it was actually making things worse by trying to logic through it rather than coming at the problems from a totally different starting point to best take advantage of the benefits of CBT and various positive coping strategies that allowed actual progress (even if slow) via the therapy sessions and lifestyle changes suggested and just generally being willing to both open up emotionally in talk therapy and focus on what I _feel_ without filtering it too much through what I _think_ in the wrong contexts.
Man.. I wish I could have learned this 20-30yrs ago. I think I started dealing with something like this before I was even in my teens. However, for me I think it was less logic and more emotion. But I'd dealt with some things early on, and I knew that they had messed me up to some degree, but I didn't even contemplate how. When you learn ways to survive with it, when you distract yourself and find ways to think less, it just gets harder and harder to change your way of thinking. I've had people tell me what I need to do all my life, and it sometimes makes sense in my head, and sometimes I even feel like I'm progressing temporarily, but then it's always just like.. an all-too-familiar overwhelming recognition of truth that overcomes you like certain doom. Therapy wasn't even a discussion when I was younger, and I've only recently been piecing together what's happened to me over the decades. But, after years of compiling problems on top of problems, and missing out on so much in life, it just feels like what's the point? I'm told it's not too late over and over, but my brain just doesn't comprehend how it couldn't be when I missed out on so many important things that develops peoples character from an early age. Understanding how depression works certainly puts things in perspective though, so thanks for getting this out there.
I feel you. When opportunities are lost, how could they be compensated for? Not all things are possible to compensate for and they forever disappear in the days bygone
Really appreciate hearing this message. When you said, "Emotions can trump logic", I felt like..... I knew that, but this video really pushed the message down into my brain. Thank you. ❤️
It’s hard to take a discussion on depression seriously that doesn’t include larger sociologic factors or in other words the health of one’s environment.
Wow, from the beginning to the conclusion, you "depicted me", doc. This video has been so comforting in a way. I don't consider myself as a bright mind, but since age 13 (I'm 35 by the way) I recognized that I have been relying on logic and analysis as the "optimum" way of scoping and solving different problematics in my life. Three things hit right near home after listenning to you: firstly, whenever I talk about my depression and the fatal vision of my life I become a Mister know it all: I know all the reasons, I know all the means, and I know that I'm ultimately in a no way out ditch. And that's it, there's no option, no alternative, but apparently dying. Secondly, I have noticed that as the years go by, I have become overly emotional in the sense that I'm easily triggered by situations in which I'm negatively predisposed, I take things very personally, and I unneccesarly tend to raise my voice and I act aggresively when I asses that I'm being threathen or challegened. And lastly, I felt so identified when you said that in the end the most painful ordeal is not knowing how to fix yourself. I consistenly tell to others around me: the thing that kills me is that I'm unable to make an U turn in my life. As you said, my perception is so damagining and caustic that any idea that comes to me as a valid alternative, I have made it useless and worthless by my falacious reasoning. There's also mix of a transversal fear and a wide and deep comfort zone, but I have identified myself as my very first enemy and I'm irionically and sadly so eager to self-sabotage, self-loathing, and self-pity. Yet, thank you.
This was very helpful to hear, thank you. Emotions can really be scary, the way you don't have control over them, and they gaining more control over you the more you try to control them.
Highly analytical and logical person here who thought she had no feeling after a childhood trauma and unprocessed grief nd pain. 5 years ago I figured out that besides my high cognitive capacities am also an underdiagnosed highly sensitive person. Relying on my smartness worked well in my early years afterwards it got upside down until I had to learn to accept that I have feelings and to cater to my emotional world. Thanks for this video! At least am not alone ❤
About emotions hijacking reasoning - I see it in myself all the time. I'm usually very depressed and emotional at the same time, so I try to logically think about what is happening and what to do, and it only makes the pain worse because I start to think I'm the one to blame and I'm the worst. But when I'm really tired (let's say, after a long flight, or very tiring day of work), my emotions are muffled, and I can think much clearer and realize that everything is going just fine, I just need to be more calm and relaxed about things. Sadly, I don't know how to control my emotions without being dead tired, and that's something I'd love to learn
This makes so much sense from an optimization point of view: When reasoning can't help process the emotion (yet that's all you learned your entire life), of course it will worsen the situation by keeping immaculately aware of the problem and one's own incompetence in solving it. Any considerable misfortune that's not easily fixed would pose a massive threat to mental stability by offering an emotional extreme for logic to get stuck in...
Funny thing just happened a second ago: As I watch this video towards the end, the solution he provided to acknowledge more of your emotions and depend less on your logic had me thinking, “this is just another coping mechanism. It’s not actually solving the problem 🙄.” Sure enough, that’s exactly my LOGIC talking and keeping me down lol! Then I briefly thought of the past moments when I’m feeling depressed, then something comes up or someone does something for me that makes me smile and laugh, I automatically take in the positive feelings I’m having and my depression suppresses (it never goes away, but I chose to acknowledge and hold on to the positive feelings as long as I can). The hard part is getting more of that. With life as it is, I don’t get a lot of those good feelings. But it’s up to me to be proactive and find it, rather than waiting around for it.
This is the exact mix of theoretical and practical knowledge of counseling that I was looking for, and I am baffled that something so helpful is free for the public via your channel. Thanks Dr. K for all that you do. 🙂
I’m in depression from 2020 (better or worse throughout the period), and in therapy from 2019, and man, you’ve just described my personality from head to toe. I just can’t thank you enough for that insight I’ve got while I watched your video. Thank you very much!!!!! ❤
It’s been since last months of 2018 for me. Can’t crawl out of it no matter what and how many times i tried. Also, can’t connect with people, tired of being alone or getting hurt
I just want to thank you for making this video, because it actually helped me learn a lot about myself. I don't think im ridiculously smart or anything but what this video did make me realize is I have been making my way through my entire life using only logic as my guide. All of my choices are filtered only through logic instead of from understanding myself and what I want. I've had severe anxiety from a very young age, and this video actually just helped me realize that I have been suppressing my emotions for as long as I can remember. I've been feeling severe anhedonia for a while now, and I've been desperately searching and searching for a way to swim up out of it: all with logical methods. Hilariously, come to find out, it's because I haven't been letting myself feel emotions. I think I let my fear control me so much, that I was literally throwing a blanket over my entire emotional center, subconsciously. I think somewhere deep down I figured, "well, if I just hide all of them under the rug, at least I dont have to experience fear." Overtime I think this made me not understand what emotions I was even feeling, I've lost touch with what even makes me happy or what happy even is because I was trying to keep myself from feeling ANYTHING in a desperate attempt to not feel anything thats negative. I was beating myself up for being bored. Paradoxically, when I told myself, "what's wrong with being bored?" instead of trying to force myself to "take advantage of your time", I STOPPED BEING BORED? It was literally the most profound experience I've had in a while, like I had an entire perspective shift in one single day. Like I'd learned more about myself in one day than I had in the last few years. This video really helped shine a light on that for me, on the fact that I would think in logical methods of "man this should make me feel happy" instead of just FEELING. I don't know if I'm even getting this message across correctly because it's still kind of new to me. But I do know that instead of trying to do what seems logical, instead I am looking directly at how things make me feel, and letting those emotions wash over me: even though they feel extremely overwhelming. I feel raw, almost vulnerable. When I first started feeling this, I was frightened, and I almost turned away from it, but instead a weird thought popped in my head, "what's wrong with feeling afraid? what's wrong with being excited or embarrassed?" and this opened up an entirely new perspective for me. Anyway, I know I'm rambling but I just wanted to say thank you, because I dont think i was depressed, but this video seriously helped me examine myself and help me start down the path of learning who the hell I even am, what I really like, and to dive headfirst into emotions and new situations and experience them. Even if they are scary, feeling emotions feels so good, in a way I can't explain. I hope anyone out there that can parse through this information, if you were going through something like what I described, try to just drop the logic. Turn your head straight into your emotions and just feel them, experience them. Even if it's scary, just feel the scary! A parting note of something else I also did: I got off social media. I think the cynical nature of people online and especially in places like twitter or reddit really starts to create a negative feedback loop inside of us subconsciously and starts to paint our entire world with a cynical brush. Anyway, I wish the best for all of you, and just wish to say, thank you very much Dr. K.
"Logic" is one of the things that caused / worsened my depression. That's why part of my therapy was exactly to get a logical explanation for why I was wrong. Without that, the "logic" explanations I was telling myself would have kept going
No lie, this is actually what i do on a regular basis. I am constantly playing devil's advocate with people online IN ORDER to be proven wrong. I WANT to be wrong, and I've been essentially trying to find those answers through other people in this weird pseudo-trolling.
@@slamkam07 That's brilliant in a way. The closer thing to truth is synthezised and fleshed out by a larger community of many searching minds, so it's reasonable to test your own logic by conversing with others. I just hope you're always being respectful despite disagreeing in such discussions.
Hey Doc, I don't know that you'll ever see this in a sea of endless comments, but thank you for your work. You're doing great work, as a logically sound man, I often struggle with acute depression, and many of my triggers for said depression are due to real world events in my life and obstacles that I face on a personal level, and just as a man. I'm sure that many men here can relate, that being a man is not always an easy thing. We always have to be publicly strong and stoic, like we're a bunch of emotionless robots. We're forced to suppress our emotions by society, as it is viewed as a weakness by a society composed of men and women who view any man going through struggles or depression as weak. This can be observed all the time, when you see such powerful influential people like Jordan Peterson having a breakdown, only for the public comprised of majority women, but also men, ridiculing him for having a breakdown as a world-renowned psychologist. Your IQ and profession will not save you from depression. Like you said, those of us who are intelligent, and who rely heavily on logic struggle with depression more because we can use our logic and reason to sort of make sense and justify the depression. When I get depressed, it hits me hard because it's due to real world events that may be out of my control and I can't reason my way out of these problems. It also doesn't help that I really never have anyone to talk to about these issues that can understand me, or even worse, give a shit. Let's be real here, society as a whole seems generally disinterested in the struggles that many men face, and women simply do not care about a man's struggle. I'm married, and trust me when I say I've tried many many times to sort of open up and speak to even my own wife and end up even more frustrated and depressed than when I started, simply because she can't relate or comprehend what I'm saying to her even though I feel as though I'm speaking in straight direct English. I understand that we are biologically different, I'm referring to men and women, but this is why many of us men struggle so much, because we just want to be heard and there is simply no one listening. You said it in a previous video, that men are apprehensive about going to therapy. You were absolutely right, because I'm anti-therapy because I believe that most modern therapists give absolutely terrible advice towards men. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but most therapists statistically deal with far more women than men, most therapist are women, and most therapists are very left-leaning feminists. When I see these types of therapists, my logic instantly kicks in and I tell myself"why bother venting to an apathetic misandrist who will only tell you that your issues are your fault and that you just need to be a better man?". This may sound insane, but this is what a lot of men go through when they try to talk to a therapist. Especially when it comes to marriage and relationship counselors, where I've heard stories of them defending cheating wives and trying to convince husbands to open up the marriage to save the marriage. Do you truly believe that these therapists would recommend the same "treatment" if their clientele were men complaining about their wives? I'm guessing they would not.
I understand where you're coming from. I think we're political opposites but nobody seems to understand what men are going through. Even organisations that supposedly fight for their rights don't even listen to them. They have preconceived ideas about how men should be and not fitting into their preconceptions would quickly disqualify you as a man
So true. That's why i dont tell my female therapist about my difficulties with relationships and other thoughts in that area. But I'm also hesitant to look for a male therapist cuz I'm afraid they'll just tell me to 'man up'......
@@franks777_KFP it's always a never-ending struggle by brother. At the end of the day, we as men only have each other to rely on. That's why while I'm anti-therapy because of the pool of therapist that give terrible advice, I would love to deal with a therapist like Dr Orion Taraban who specializes in relationships, men's issues, and generally speaking gives great advice that is easy to understand for everyone. Unfortunately, with therapists like him, money is a huge issue. At least it is for me.
I remember challenging my therapist on the logic of my suicidal thoughts back in August last year, figured much of it was based in stress after taking 8 months off.
I do not consider myself as a person with a high IQ, but man Dr K is spitting. Because now that I think about it, I do try to logic my way out of depression which only seems to make it worse
This guy just explained my entire life. It's what I've slowly been realizing as I've talked with my therapist over the past year, but to hear it all laid out like this, as explained by a professional, and to hear that there are ways to fix this, is so helpful and validating. I was violently nodding and pointing at the screen at one point, lol. I can see how my cycle of thinking keeps pulling me downwards - I take my conclusions from past failures and decide that I will always fail, that nothing will ever get better. It's so easy to use logic to come to a depressing conclusion, especially in our modern world, which, besides being unnatural and soul-crushing in itself, demonizes emotion. Emotion is bad, emotion is useless, being emotional means you're dumb, having emotions doesn't solve problems - in a world where Productivity is the only thing that matters. Also when you're a smart woman, you use your intelligence and logic to further protect yourself from emotions because being an ~emotional woman~ is just further ammo to be attacked and/or brushed aside by men, and even other women (men (some men, gotta preface for the idiots) hate smart women too - you just can't win as a woman). Being vulnerable is the fastest way to get hurt. I've definitely worn my intelligence as a shield, but it's become my prison. I think my perfect storm was having a narcissist as a father, being 'smart', and also possibly being neurodivergent (not sure, trying to figure it out - trauma, anxiety, and depression can have the same symptoms as ADHD, but they also feed each other, yadda yadda). When I had emotions as a kid they were either made fun of or openly criticized - what a great way to raise a child. Emotions were annoying, a nuisance - ostensibly because he couldn't handle or understand his own. I'm emotionally stunted by a trifecta of narcissistic abuse, social anxiety (and/or neurodivergence?), and my own intelligence working against me. I'm finally learning, as a 31 year old, that it's okay to have emotions, and sometimes logic doesn't fix the emotions, and that's okay too. I've done yoga and meditation before, and I've been wanting to do them again, so hopefully this is further motivation for me. Now, to actually do it is a whole different thing... (yay depression? anxiety? adhd?) sigh.
i think really looking into my core beliefs and where they come from during development and traumatic upbringings and trying to rewrite that is helping me alot, like having the belief that being authentic and being myself would only lead to abandonment and being outcast, so with that core belief any amount of logic couldn't get past it, now looking into childhood stuff i'm able to be a bit more fair when i try to logic whats happenin.
i think one of the coping mechanisms i came up with after going through a terrible long depression was to detach a huge part of my brain away from my identity. i see most of my brain as a kid that only a part of me inhabits. the kid wants to do the right things and make things easier for itself, but it has little knowledge how to do it, and easily gets frustrated and self-sabotaging. whenever i get washed up by negative thoughts or feelings i can look at my brain from a detached perspective and see its the kid acting up, give it a few words not to be so hard on itself, and then put it aside and take over. if i have any positive thoughts or experiences, it no longer drowns in the negative feelings. i can separate the two from being a product of the kid brain and actual experiences i have had i dont know if it makes much sense. i think the idea is just not to take your brain too seriously. its locked inside the cranium and doesnt actually know whats going on beside what nerves around the body tells it. yes, we are kind of the brain and have a much bigger perspective than a lump of wrinkly fat hidden in the darkness, but i think our conscious self is just a desk worker sitting inside the brain. we dont run the actual brain department. we have to stand up for ourselves when the boss of our brain department does not get the full picture and acts irrationally because of it. i guess in my case i turned that boss into a confused kid so its easier for me to take the reigns instead and guide the brain, without having to endlessly argue with it as an equal, which otherwise just devolves into insults i think just a quick sidenote, this isnt how i view kids in the real world haha. for me the association is just that the brain is too immature to know what its doing, so its not fit or responsible enough to lead me, and its okay for me to dismiss it. this also helps a lot with being skeptic. instead of just second guessing what other people are saying, you also second guess your own thoughts and feelings
This is a lovely and at the same time very helpful way of looking at your brain and it's capacity to shift the situations you are experiencing. I will screenshot your thoughts, I think it will help me to except the situations I find myself in and allow myself to be open towards my emotions. I hope you are in a good place, thanks for sharing your sweet wisdom. @littlevampiregirl100
yes ! that’s a tactic called defusion often used in ACT, DBT, CBT (types of therapy). if you want to read up on the technicalities and/or some other ways to utilize it :)
@@amariza9013 you nailed it, reading up on defusion thats exactly what i have been doing. when i took my brain too seriously, it felt like it was overpowering me. when i started to put it in place, expecting it to still overpower me, instead it felt like a little child going back to its room to let me handle things haha
This is what I'm trying to do. and I even gave it a name. Just started doing it recently. But the only problem is I never treated it as a child. but my other self. I guess treating it as a kid will make it more effective.
I’ve found that it’s easier to logic your way into depression than out of it
Honestly, as cringe as it sounds - studying philosophy at University, and some interpretations of warrior codes, actually brought me out of depression
Ain't that the fuckin truth
That is true.
Deep
@@dream1430what are warrior codes
I remember telling my counselor. “I’m not suicidal. But suicide just makes sense. You know what I mean? It’s the only thing that makes sense.”
real
I felt like the butter-robot from Rick and Morty.
Now looking back its kinda funny how perspective can change! ^^
WTF this was 9 years ago! *panic*
It’s unreal how just continuing to live can be enough for things to just get better. Things rarely stay the same if you zoom out to the span of half decades, like it or not. The causes of these huge life changes are often things you could never imagine, like, 6 years ago. When you’re depressed pessimism can make you dismiss this, but that’s bc the brain makes sense of things. Sad yesterday + sad today = sad tomorrow. If it’s hard to remember the good times then it’s hard to make accurate predictions about the future.
Edit: continuing to live **can** make things better. It gives things a chance to get better. It gives the world a chance to radically change and it gives you a chance to radically change. The former is more surprising since we generally attribute our fate to our choices. The ladder is more worth focusing on in the day to day. Hoping things will change is often not helpful. But forgetting things can always get better is a massive mistake caused by depression inhibiting your perceptions.
As someone who has been in that same tough process before, I am curious. I thought that weighing up the accumulation of bad/terrible life by staying alive vs the potential good/better life that can come after it would favour staying alive. If I have to endure 5-15 years of painfull life vs 20-40 years good life(after having suffered) it makes sense to stay alive to achive a net positive. With the exception of unbearable pain (R.I.P. Adam Maier-Clayton), or untreatable ailments, I have the assumption that logically, suicide does not make sense.
If you have cancer or an illness with little chance of survival, doing a probability calculation and comparing potential good years ahead vs potential bad years ahead, you would have to be pretty old for the resoult to favour suicide.
I do not want to overextended, I am just curious. So if possible I would like to know the reasoning behind what you said to your counselor; does it come from having wrong presumptions like Dr. K. says?
@@Federico-1 That tunnel vision almost inspired me to just go ahead and end it, about 25 years ago. I'd lost all 3 of my income sources (one of them BECAUSE of the panic attacks I was having, with hallucinations as one of the symptoms). I was sure I was headed for homelessness in the Minnesota Winter. My best friend/brother flew me to Las Vegas, where he was living, and set me up in a cheap quad apartment. A new acquaintance that I'd met in a support group asked if I could meet him at Luxor at 8:00 Monday morning. Sure. He'd set me up to be hired as a security guard for a big musical comedy show there. Everything changed overnight. I LOVED the job, and the panic lifted almost immediately. My new mantra became "Despair is a liar".
“Logically correct, but operating on the wrong assumptions”
That is HUGE
I don’t really understand why said assumptions are automatically wrong. Why can’t they be accurate assessments?
@@virginiarobards7810 Look into 'The Depressed Brain: An Evolutionary Systems Theory'
@@virginiarobards7810this is what makes me so mad... It seems therapy is centered around proving the patient wrong. What if they are right?
@@brendalg4because if they were "right", chances are they wouldn't need a therapist. Obviously, in reality its not so simple, but mental illness is, by definition, a "wrong" thing to have
@virginiarobards7810 because depressed people’s perception is very warped
I actually have a relative who struggles with this logic. She always says her life won't get better so there's no reason to go to a therapist. I tried to reason with her for years. Now after watching this video I told her what you said and she finally agreed to seek help. Thank you so much.
Wow that's amazing. You're a good relative to be so supportive
A lot of depression comes from a lack of hope especially for your future . Words may not always fix it though changes and opportunities might as long as they are of the mind set to take them .
Depression is characterized by the eradication of positive emotion not only pain and anxiety. Though they are usually present especially the pain aspect .
Though other factors can be involved lack of touch vitamin d deficiency and so on but mentally it has a lot to do with bringing positivity and and making it last . Giving hope to the hopeless.
Wow, props to you for supporting her for years. Wishing her good things on her journey.
Gotta make sure to not get yourself depressed tho.
We used to always be like "a therapist couldn't help. I already do all the things to try and work it out myself, what else could they possibly offer me?"
It's hard not to be depressed in the modern era. Our "purpose" has changed so fast due to technology and social constructs of this era that we feel unfulfilled or empty.
I think too access to tech makes us more aware of the current state of things internally and externally.
Back then our state of survival felt more pertinent. You either live to find food, shelter, searching for medicine to live longer, or die. Now, it feels like all of these things are provided to us more easily that we feel disconnected from what life really means. We don't live to survive anymore (for 1st world countries), we live to earn something called money and to try to "better society", but until when and for whom exactly? That's the question that people are starting to ask themselves more and more. Our "purpose" in life is becoming more and more abstract than to simply be allowed to live longer and to bestow our descendants the same.
I mean, we can just create challenges for ourselves, that way we find a personal motive to keep going.
@@Feathertail2205 to be quite frank, the concept of life when you think about the scale of the universe has no point, simply because it's *we* who have to make it have a point, existence is like a sandbox game, some like it, some don't.
@@jellymatsuryuka6853 Well technically other living things like bacteria don't ever think about why they exist or whether they should. In that way, they exist similarly to non-living atoms. But nature made it so that living things can co-exist with each other in a way that work together to create lush/diverse biospheres, something that we have not found anywhere else outside of Earth, yet. Which personally I would say is something to behold. Unfortunately our evolved intelligence/self-awareness is working against us at the moment where we are more self-absorbed about our own goals than how we fit into the grand natural "scheme" of things. Of course there's no real scheme, but we don't really stop to think about things that are truly outside of ourselves like we should because we've created such massive societies that became insulated bubbles for humanity, hence we believe that there's "no point" in existing, just as there's "no point" for anything in the universe to exist, but here we are, living things and non-living things alike, existing and going through reality. That should tell us that it's okay to just "be" without goals, as long as we still understand the effects of our actions that reflect on us, however puny they are compared to the universe, since we're all made up of the same thing (atoms) that everything else is. However, I understand that some people will find this thinking dissatisfying and to want to look for something more. In that regard, I say just do your best, find happiness in the little things, and appreciate that you get to spend some time in a beautiful world if you can once in a while overlook some of the ugly "monoliths" (ie. social constructs) that humans have created for the sake of your own peace and sanity.
the problem with depression its that its not an emotion like sadness, its a state of mind.
Your state of mind is defined by the emotions and thoughts that make it up.
@@m00se40 You don’t know much about psychology do you?
@@Silencer796 ?
@@m00se40 it’s much more than an emotion. Depression is often persistent in a lot of people.
Could it come down to over-thinking?
Depression: "So life is pointless."
Me: "Yes."
Depression: "You believe you're so worthless to other people that you're actually detrimental to other people."
Me: "Yes."
Depression: "You don't believe you have value even to yourself."
Me: "Yes."
Depression: "So why don't you-"
Me: "No."
Depression: "But that doesn't make any sense!"
Me: "Yes."
!!! Actually! I just can't! Not like I've tried and failed it's just not an option and then people don't take me serious when I try and communicate my issues and I'm not actively self harming or something drastic
For me;
Depression: "So why don't you-"
Me: "The religion."
Depression: "Tsk, cheap move."
@@alpereo6730 Good on you.
Is this thinking pattern already Depression? Because i don't think im really depressed but this thinking pattern is exactly my thoughts
@@bactrosaurus if you're actively questioning if you should be alive or feeling that suicide is an actual option I would think there's depression developing under the surface, maybe not acknowledged, but it may well be already in your thoughts
In my 5th year of depression, someday I suddently noticed that the trickiest thing about depression, is that it makes you believe you don't want to get better, as if you're depressed because it's the way things should be. All the things it tells you in your head sounds so true that you even begin to doubt that the life before was just a delusion, a fake image, because you're unable to see "the truth". It controls you not by some irrational thoughts, but by the fear of being irrational. The harder you try to "make sense", the deeper it controls you.
I came a few years ago out of 18 years of depression. So I can relate to this fully. Logic and thinking are the very thing that one has to let go of. In a way many things in our modern world are just fake images and delusions. It is an invitation to go into the abyss, the deeper layers and to find out the inner Truth of our being. To go inward and to see the inner Truth and authentic being that is hiding within, below the layers of the shadow. And there is no such thing as being irrational. We are both really. And that is ok.
@@TheMysticTablemind if I ask, what is the biggest thing you wish you knew a long time ago?
@@nkyiem I can't think of anything. Everything went how it should have gone. Despite all the suffering involved. What about you?
@themomentpodcast Have you gone on any spiritual journey recently or in the past that has lead you to this? You're first comment rang home to me as I am starting to understand the pool of human consciousness we perhaps all originate from. Whether this is God or God's or the Atom idk but I wish dearly to understand more.
@@TheMysticTable Surpsingly for me, I agree with you.
I would think of something I wished I would have known but if I did actually know that at the time, it would feel wrong. Everything did go how it should've done.
There's two types of depression: logic says I shouldn't be depressed but I am, and logic says I have no reason to not be depressed, the second one is what gets me
Actually true. I suffer from the first form. I know I have a fantastic life: two beautiful kids, perfect health (apart from the depression that is), safe country, good job, financial security, nice house. I can't count how many times I said to myself: I have what thousands of generations before me fought for, prayed for and suffered for. I have it all. It didn't help a thing, I kept feeling depressed.
I'm doing better now, but after more than 20 years of ups and downs and different therapists I know it is a monster that will never leave me. The best I can hope for is that it stays asleep.
@@arnenl1575 I kind of get what you mean, but over time I realized that enjoying things isn't something you can try to do, unlike what they tell you
Don't ever feel guilty of being sad, no one chooses to suffer and you aren't being selfish nor foolish for being unsatisfied and devoid of energy
Just let the good things happen to you, without needing anything back from you to be appreciated, and fight with everything you have against what you don't want to be in your life, knowing that no matter what happens, you shall have no regrets
At least that's what I habe found to be helpful for me, I hope you have as wonderful of a life as you deserve
The first starts and leading to the second one .. vicious cycle😢
I think lack of purpose makes people depressed. Ironically if a w4r did break out it would cure people's depression because it would give living meaning
@arnenl1575 perfect lives are not good for us, having everything you wanted leads to depression because there's nothing more to strive for, there's no meaning created when there's no struggle
"You are not your thoughts" is the key to breaking that loop/cycle
I don't even understand what u mean.... Like... I am my thoughts? If not then what are u???
@@lauran7862 exactly lol
@@lauran7862Your feelings are fickle and you listen to them in your head while thinking. Understand what is and what isn't, then go from there. Best personal advice I can give based on my own interpretation of the OP, and some first hand life experience.
I started crying as soon as I read that
"feelings aren't facts"
The autoimmune analogy for depression is a fantastic one. It's a "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" situation.
The really neat thing about this is that people who suffer long term with severe depression have a much higher risk of developing autoimmune disorders.
@@Anonymous-zk7ykPhysical autoimmune diseases correlate with like every psychological disorder.
@@Anonymous-zk7ykThe gut microbiome, go figure.
I have a theory that our overwhelmingly safe enviroments cause these. These very powerful systems are so understimulated that they begin a life of their own. They had a very important purpuse and they were ment to work under the extremely dangerous pressure of life. If they have no pressure they go haywire.
@@krisztiannemeth6875 You really saying that people "need danger"?
Damn... That would be some of the most stupid things I ever heard.
Our brain is programmed on survival. Its programmed to make a society survive. And in every society most people are weak. Evolutionary seen especially the "weak gender" so half of a species.
Our brain is programmed to make us building safety even if the safety is even unnesseccary if some people are powerful enough to even survive in a dangerous environment. We are addicted to safety.
The brain does exactly the opposite of what you said. It actually makes someone depressive if he not choose safety. People get more and more depressive cause society is forcing them away from things the brain actually wants. Safety, family, egoism, and other "natural stuff".
I actually lived a more dangerous life once and after I started to live more in safety ways I got way and way more happy, while before my brain was like shitting itself on purpose.
Depression is a selfdefense system by the evolution to make everyone who does shitty things like not to choose safety hating himself and making him vulnurable for everyone who is willing to choose safety. Depression is youre body sacrificing you for the safety of the species. Safety is something like "the one above all". If you are mot choosing the safest ways in youre life, even if its totally unneccessay then you will get depressive. Everything else is just one of million illusions a human can hunt. Youre brain only accepts willingly forcing danger if it is totally nesseccary for you to survive.
If youre even just trying to argue against safety youre brain already starts not to give you as much happiness as it could give you and make you even depressive. There will never be a truely happy human (very big accent on TRUE happiness) who is trying to argue against safety. You may can life phantasies like in videogames, but the border is when you would actually want to live such a life yourself or say to others that would be fun. Everyone who says something else never felt TRUE happiness, something that feels like youre on drugs.
Our systems of safety make us happy. The brain willingly and actively forces people who dont accept this into depression. Thats the consequence of beeing anti and not the consequence of what youre against.
This takes "ignorance is a bliss" to a whole new level
Takes it to the levels its at
2:31 this is so on point. I was a "gifted child" and didn't develop emotionally very well and in my adulthood I look around like, "why do these people have all these things like friends and family and relationships and I don't?"
same same same i literally don't know to make friends. i also have social phobia.
I even developed aversion to as a response to it.
I tend to say very blunt and rude things to people because I don't value their emotions. Logically they need to do something and I'm telling them what I believe that might be. I wish people did this to me as well but they frustratingly value my emotions more than I want them to. I tend to not even feel human due to my inability to effectively communicate with others.
@palehoney79 I'm 100% right where you are. Be well my friend. Overcome it.
@user-wd9iz4je2i Yes. YES, same. That's the natural reaction to an uncomfortable sensation, and I relate.
I've struggled with "being too smart for myself," or rather, forcing myself to get out of my own head and stop doing things "logically." I've grown to use logic to make myself feel safe in times where my emotions are on high alert, but sometimes it is more harmful than helpful.
I feel you
Me too... And is my only way out, so.. crap
I’m literally speechless of finding out other people that verbalize this issue that I thought or felt I was the only one with this weird “problems”
@@NovellaDeParmesano i need neurolink to use eq to rationalise my GAD and depression
im in recovery but the residual anxiety is baddd
"The madman has not lost his reason. He has lost everything **but** his reason." -- G. K. Chesterton
This was written in the early 20th century, so the terminology is clearly antiquated, but it has really helped me understand, contextualize, and cope with my own mental illness.
Saving this
Thank you for posting this here. I've always held Khalil Gibran's The Madman close to my heart and this quote feels like a contemporary sequel to his dwellings.
This. Hit. Hard.
One of my favorite quotes of all time. G.K. Chesterton is such a ball of old-school sass.
How is the terminology outdated lol
If you have relied on logic your whole life it's nothing but surprising how much of therapy for depression is actually focused on recognizing your emotions as if that has been an option all along
The feelings come and go, and there is value in that. In recognizing that, understanding them, and feeling through them.
Therapists/counselors say anyone who is avoident, quiet, introverted or eccentric that they are sociopaths and difficult. The system does not encourage doctors to help outside a certain scope.
It's assumed that most people are open and extroverted and if you are closed off you are a willfully difficult person. This doesn't start in adult hood it starts in elementary/middle/HS.
People who are gifted often have more issues overall on a sociol/emotional level. People who have mental illness have the same thing.
To fit in often requires a connection and if you are on the high end of a spectrum or a low end you often don't fit with general populous which is somewhere in the middle.
This means that a person whos IQ is too low or too high you are going to naturally have problems connecting. Society also rewards and punishes behavior it doesn't find beneficial.
Which beneficial doesn't mean auctully beneficial since in reality everyone is a benefit in SOME WAY.
it means 'Common'. This is why mental illness is children is so heavily over diagnosed because school therapist/counselors are serving the school not the child and if the schools priorities are misaligned so are diagnoses.
So many people who had to deal with years of being judged harshly for not fitting the standards gain complexes for being sent to counselors/Therapists for simply not fitting the schools standards.
Despite the fact the schools often encourage and desire systemic abuse of children.
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you
(1 Peter 5:7)
Logic is not the same as rationality; logic is a tool for rationality, but it can also be used in a irrational way. Take a valid deductive argument, it's valid because if you put true premises in its structute, it creates true conclusions. However , if you put wrong premises in a valid deductive argument, you can get things that are very wrong.
Thus, if you are using logic on unsound premises like "I'm unlovable", "people hate me", "I have no reason to live", you can logically get to wrong conclusions.
I think you have the right idea, although perhaps you've misappropriated the term rationality a little to explain it.
I'll attempt my own explanation for you to compare and decide what you think.
Logic is fundamentally a projection of observations, we say if x and y are true then z must also be true. There are naturally a few issues that can arise.
Firstly, our initial "facts"must be correct. (And just because something is true under certain conditions does not mean it is true under all conditions. I call one fact, and the other idea "a truth", something inherently axiomatic)
Then our facts must also be functionally complete. By that I mean that x and y may be true but if J is also true and meaningfully changes the situation then our previous logic is in fact inaccurate despite both inputs being true. So logic is also a conclusion with a large degree of approximation.
Thirdly, our assumption of transition must be true. Now we understand that x, y, and j are true, but our assumption of transition is that BECAUSE they are true then z must also be true.
And finally, because logic is an conclusion based on gathered information, the result itself may be true, but not the whole truth.
Well, that feels a bit of a messy explanation, but hopefully that gives some interesting thoughts.
Despite all it's issues logic IS VALUABLE. I like to compare logic to focused eyesight, and intuition to peripheral vision. Both are information gathering and processing methods, and have their own roles in functional interaction with the world around us.
I like to put it as like this, logic and emotionality are like languages. While you can misuse a language, use it wrongly, the language itself is not wrong, it just exists as a system of making sense of the world.
While rationality and emotionality may have a pure core, the "true language", they are daily in contact with each other and many other things like exterior circumstances, morals, experiences etc. So they never really exist in their pure form in us, they are an ideal, but in real life, they are just like languages, the spoken language usually breaks many rules of the "established official" language.
So we end up at a point where it is dangerous to think that we wield the pure form of logics, emotions, morals, experience or whatever. These are just theoretical constructs that in its base form are so far away from our everyday lives, that using them in these forms barely makes sense. So we end up mixing in many ways. Some may mix morals with logic, others logic with morals, yet others mix morals with emotions, ... We probably even do any possible combinations ourselves, based on the circumstance.
So anyone who says they are logical (or emotional) is probably not to be trusted in their observation because both are somewhat useless in their pure form. Without any input as to where the journey should go, they are just a code, a rulebook. Imagine it like the road code. It tells you how to drive your car, but it doesn't tell you where to journey to, what time to leave or in general the purpose of your journey. So no matter how well you apply the rulebook, you still need a goal in mind, which the rulebook alone can't give you. It can give you ideas, but your choice of goal is neither logical nor an emotion. It is a much more complex beast
It's as simple as this: if you decide to prove with logic that there is no god, you are going to prove that there is no god, because you don't have on-hand point of reference to determine if your answer is right or not.
Equally if you want to prove with logic that god exists you will also prove it, just because your final premise is to do something, logically and not deconstructing past events.
Logic can't prove that there is a god or that there is no god. The most logical positions are agnostic theism or atheism. Any others are based on faith.
Back to depression. My only premise is that life to me is more suffering than it's worth. And it's not getting better, it's getting worse with age. I'm not unlovable, I have reason to live. I also have reason to not continue suffering. It's been 20 years since I was able to determine I am depressed. I'm giving it another 5 years to see if I can live instead of being lived and I am going to visit a psychiatrist. Again. If shit doesn't at least start looking better then that could very well be it.
We see the same but think different. There is suffering in life, yes it's a lot. It bends your spine and breaks your femurs with ease, yet a human keeps healing the wounds back up. There is a beauty in that. You are intoxicated by that beauty, repelled by it's appeal to our own humanity, I am on a high from seeing it's crescent cycle.
We are not given a thing when we are born yet we are born. To chose death right now is playing roulette with the possibilities, which you are not forced to play, just for the sake of fulfilling your desire to give in to your feral fear response that is extremism and simplification of your reality which is inhuman.
Remain full of humanity, especially in a day and age as bustling with discovery and creation as ours.
A more pragmatic motivator can be this: anti aging science and AI are developing at an increased rate ever since 2021 and if you live long enough to see results of one or the other, many of your problems will be easier to carry, the pain not comparing to the pleasure.
Do not lose hope.
I have an IQ of 139. 140 would consider you to be a genius and is pretty rare. Ever since I had depresssion I have always thought of trying to just “logic” itself out as exactly as how you stated. However, it never works. I’ve worked out, eat well, and have good experiences and still feel bland or numb. This is a video I needed to re-route how I think of my depression so thank you so much.
Hey there, It's good to know that you're trying to get better and have found a new way out of your depression. You posted this 3 months ago so I hope you're doing well now, and belive you're trying your best. Good luck to you. You'll definitely get better. Have a good day or night.
-Random stranger on internet.
I’m with you. I sit at about a 138.
What I’ve realized is that being aware of your emotions IS logical. Ignoring emotions or suppressing them is pointless because we are human and they will always exist.
Being aware that I am inherently an animal with primal fears is what helped me understand how to best take care of my emotions. You can’t logically reason with a scared animal. Often times, sitting with and allowing the emotion to exist naturally instead of suppressing it in favor of logic is the most logical thing to do imo
So true. You should take steps to fix things, but I found that just going through day to day blindly believing "everything's gonna work out" without thinking how it will logically happen has helped me much more than trying to think of detailed steps of getting me out of many situations. Usually everything worked out in ways I never expected or never factored in.
Right. The problem with trying to solve everything by yourself is that you aren't by yourself. You're in a world where a lot of wild and unpredictable things happen.
I really really dislike how it sounds, it sounds very scary, but maybe it is what i should do.. it's so hard to blindly believe something tho...
I rely on art a lot. I've figured that when something feels too overwhelming, the first thing I have to do is to "let it out". Painting, taking pictures, writing, anything is good as long as I can have that feeling as something tangible. Art does wonders, you can express an emotion even if you can't name it.
Yep, when I used logic, I was at my worst. I’ve also decided to go along with life and be like “whatever happens happens and it’s meant to be” and honesty, although I am not 100% better, it’s been more helpful than using logic with everything
Same here. I learned how to convince myself of some things that I don’t actually believe are true, but they’re helpful for my mental health. Like “everything happens for a reason,” for example. I don’t actually believe that, but I can put myself in that mindset anyway and it helps me quite a bit.
Astrology is another that I know isn’t actually true, but it’s a framework that helps me organize my thoughts and emotions. I’ve yet to find a term for this simultaneous believing-but-not-believing.
Man, the part near the end when he addresses feeding the cycle of depression by being unable to "fix" it and the guilt of failing constantly really got to me.
Good video, it's good to have more awareness.
Same here. I feel so ashamed and worthless that I cannot fix myself out of depression.
Same here i really could relate with the last part cause friends and even one of my girlfriends said : Your so smart ...you helped me with my problems why can't you help yourself emotionally the same way ?
Than i realized..why dafaq can i not take MY OWN ADVISE , which already was capable to fix that girls alcohol and drug problems to help and fix my life situation?! (Which in comparison is really not that fucked up)
All i have to do is find a job / apprenticeship which doesn't burn me out , fuel my depression and make me think about suicide doing it for the next 2,5/3,5 years
8-10 hours a day.
Seems easy enough right?
And everytime i think about friends i wonder... How the hell can you handle 9 hour job , a child a wife , life struggles , stress have hobbies aswell and not feel a single bit exhausted?!
The thought alone working 10 hours a day 5-6 days a week feeling exhausted after work every day falling asleep to wake up the next day to work 8-10 hours again... And repeat.
That SCREAMS depression , burning out to me ( and i actually experienced it myself this way)
And it looks like i'm the only one who can't understand why you would live your life like this.
All the other people , my parents , friends , doesn't seem to have that struggle and it always confuses me.
Is the society the problem?
Or am i the problem here?
I simply can't understand why would someome dedicate so much time and energy into a job or apprenticeships in general , which in the end doens't even fullfills you?
Why waste 60-70% of your day with a job... just for money??
It's a concept and lifestyle nobody seems to have a problem with ... Well they probably have a problem with it but they just accept it.
"Cause that's just life lol"
"Your just lazy Dude"
"If you don't do it you will live on the streets"
"Get used to it kid"
I hate those kind if comments about my opinion and
i can just tell you my own experience
Appreticeships/ Jobs make me feel misarable. To a point where i think that there is no job in this world which actually fullfills me and i actually WANT to go there and not just for money.
Definitely... It touched me deeply to hear it that way. It's actually so sad. Our smart brains making us feel worthless, useless and ashamed.
Omg that's the last 10 years of my life. Shit.
I like how you use logic to explain how logic won't fix my problem... and it still makes me feel a little better
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you
(1 Peter 5:7)
Man this is so valuable for people with depression. It took me years to figure this exact thing out on my own. Also this is tougher for high IQ ADHD people, because they are at such a IQ / EQ imbalance. High IQ and ADHD is basically a recipe for depression.
Sheiiii looks like I'm in for a ride
I have adhd and I have a high EQ because of my emotional regulation issues
@@edbed59 true, maybe high IQ + emotional dysregulation is more accurate
I suspend it can be my situation, is there any like... General direction that can lead to sorting everything out? I've been scouring mental health and self-improvement info for an almost a year now and had very little success in actually implying it, rn i'm all about rational thinking and stuff, but this video reminded me that maybe actually i should not think at all, but it is.. not easy... And i'm too poor to afford professional. I would be glad to hear some advice
@@mrgenry6055 something that helps me is to not expect all the answers to be in my head, I might need to go and interact in the world and with others and just being there instead of analyzing more. Also learning to live with loose ends without trying to tie all of them up. Not sure if this helps, but thought I’d offer.
I coulda used this explanation 12 years ago, but I'm happy to hear it now.
Right there with ya. 2011 seems like so long ago now.
Same brother. Never too late to turn the page..
@WHENDOESITEND? Are we the same person?
And I didn't need to know that Lana Del Rey is like an old music icon now. Jesus....
@WHENDOESITEND? My brother! lol. Love Tim Minchin
@WHENDOESITEND? Lol, my sister! Idk, sometimes I feel pretty femanine - still works rofl.
There is a quote i read a long time ago that i like to use to describe my depression, "the more the human mind understands about reality, the more it seeks to destroy itself" that quote has been the one that stuck with me the most.
Also highly intelligent people often deal with loneliness. It's hard to find people who they can have stimulating conversation with or find people with similar interests/hobbies. Loneliness often leads to depression too
Yes I noticed that in a lot of my friends too, which means intelligent needs to accompany with empathy and pure interest in other people (with low expectation of it needing to provide you values in anyway) to help establish connection on emotional level and not just intellectual level for next generational human that can survive Darwin’s award.
This is so true. I’ve found I don’t have difficulty doing small talk with colleagues, classmates and such, but when it comes to actually forming relationships I really feel so distant to everyone else. I don’t think I’m highly intelligent though hahaha.
Smart and lonely or dumb and fun lol
Yep, I feel that. I don't have friends who share my hobbies, and to add to it, I have autism, which means I can't do small talk, only meaningful conversations, which leads to not talking to the people I know which leads to losing friends.
Yes this kinda happened in my case too, not saying that I'm intelligent but I have always struggled to find someone with the same interests and perspectives. It got to the point where I lost all sorts of motivation and caused me to drop out of college temporarily.
This is so interesting! It reminds me of what I say when someone says I must be great in university because I'm smart. I always say "No, I'm smart enough to rationalize procrastinating or not doing my work".
Growing up, happiness is glorified, unpleasant emotions are demonized, and neutrality is ignored. I've realized feeling sad isn't fun, but I don't need to escape it. I also try to take note of feeling neutral and appreciate it for the calm it brings .
I also like to use past experience to remind myself that my extreme emotions are temporary, for example "I'm really overwhelmed right now. I know I'll feel better by tomorrow, so I need to focus on taking care of myself for now." And then I just wallow a bit cause sometimes that's what you need.
You got me crying because you just described me.. & this line “ I’m smart enough to rationalize procrastinating or not doing work “ hits harder because i have midterms and yet haven’t started studying,💔
Also I think sometimes we procrastinate bc it’s not something we care enough for and u can’t force urself to care and that’s bc some of us have executive dysfunction and I can’t logic my way out even when the deadline is looming near.
Lately I feel like giving up but my parrots have special needs and I'm afraid of what would happen to them. They would be so confused and I don't know who would give them the care they need. The thought of them feeling scared and not being taken care of and suffering is the worst. That unpleasant scenario is keeping me here. I refuse to abandon them. I will fight depression for them.
@@kristym8641 I feel you, I have two adorable cats and I don't want to leave them to suffer if I am gone, I promised them to not leave them no matter what, I wish you strength to keep going 🙏
@@kristym8641 Same. My cat is getting old and is very attached to me emotionally. I can theoretically leave him to my mother but I fear that he'll feel sad and confused if I suddenly disappear. So I have decided to keep myself alive at least until he gets to pass away peacefully.
This is so sweet, props to you. How are you doing now?
As one of the greatest depression researchers of the last century said - the people in depression tend to have the most objective and clearest view of the world and human condition.
literally the opposite of what he's saying at 13:18
that's actually objectively untrue
They are also bad at calculating
@@jnmarshmello2728huh? Depressed people estimate odds *more* accurately than non-depressed people. The latter tend to be unrealistically optimistic.
@@Dudemon-1 nah because there are reasons to live but they suck at finding them, or atleast finding them interesting
I definitely tried this multiple times.. I am a very very logical person and I have to do a lot of analysis regardless of how I feel so I know why I feel that way.. Writing it down, talking it out with a therapist, HG coach, etc. It was not enough. Professionally got diagnosed by a doc with severe depression and had to get Zoloft daily.. Helped TREMENDOUSLY.. Did a rescaling of my regular day to day feelings after month 6 and my depression and anxiety levels went from maximum 10 all the way to 0 and 1....
Proud of you.
Congratulations! That's a huge accomplishment.
Curious to know if you have OCPD tendencies?
Glad you're still here
whats zoloft?
I am not depressed but there are a few people in my life who are. This video was very insightful, thank you. I am one of those fiercely logical people and I have realized lately that the more logical I am to someone to try and help the more upset or emotional they seem to get. This video made me realize I was 1 of those "smart" kids that relied on logic over emotion so don't have much EQ. I am trying to learn.
Same, I used to take pride in being "level headed" and not feeling anything, and would logic anything and everything.
Accidentally developed an anxiety disorder 6 months ago by isolating, eating horrible food constantly, never exercising and only ever playing games 12 hours a day and nothing more. Straight from bed to computer and back again.
Learning about how to get over the disordered anxiety response has completely opened my eyes to the concept of just sitting with an emotion and doing nothing about it. Now I'm kinda flipped where I'm hyoerfocused inward and paying too much attention to every single feeling I feel. Working that back down.
I wasn't even aware of this entire world of emotions and what to do with them or how to feel feelings until now
I love the fact that you are so open to accept and understand this thing 🫂 as a person who experienced depression still trying my best to heal .. whenever I approached anyone they seem to put logic in it which was not making sense to me because what they are saying I do know that ( they do care about me ) but what i was struggling with ...i had hard time explaining it to them ...most of the time i end up crying or feel low . Thank you so much for understanding. 🌷
i'm extremely logical too. but indeed try to see, do and say no more and no less than what is required for their next step. sometimes it's a hug. sometimes advice. but the whole road to get out of it? they can't see it like you do so in all it makes them even less confident because 'apparantly it should be obvious' 🙏
I mean the fact you're trying to learn about it maybe means your EQ is higher than you think it is, some people don't even bother understanding other people's struggles
I used to be quite emotional, but dumped some of them, because I was becoming suicidal from it. I used to hate logical people 😅 cause it just comes off as very unsympathetic, inhuman almost. We're not robots.
Now that I think more logically, I kind of find emotional ppl to be annoyingly irrational or just plain silly. Many times feelings are just pointless fluff that don't actually do or contribute anything, it's just random bizarre outbursts that have no basis in reality.
I was on the verge of searching for therapists after trying and failing to cure my depression with logic for 6 months. I open RUclips and Dr. K uploads this. Dr. K never misses.
A good therapist WILL help you, depressed or not. I think its always good to have a therapist. Nowadays the stigma is going away too. Many of my friends have therapists and tell me what they learned all the time.
@@ronniedulaymi8527 I totally understand what you mean. I will 100% get one. The stigma faded away for me when I found Dr. K so that's not a worry. And thank you for the encouragement. :)
@@Dimitris_Half Iron Warrior haha! I would love to be one. Thank you for the encouraging words.
I remember being especially younger and longed to be a stupider person because while I did fine in elementary and middle school it seemed like if you were not quite as smart you didn't calculate risks and it allowed them to do all these other fulfilling things like ask girls out and have these relationships that I wished I could have. I probably still feel this way much longer into adulthood.
I relate to this. This was my whole experience growing up and even to this day.
The risk taking thing is definitely a relatable aspect. Having done the “calculations” I tend to avoid taking risks that don’t guarantee at least some sort of return. As a result I’ve never asked a girl out or taken a big financial risk. Using logic I have come to terms with the single life. 😂
yes. I feel this soooo much
I couldn’t agree more with this comment. I never asked girls out, never tried out for sports, never signed up for clubs, had a very small tight-knit group of friends, never attempted to take the SAT or ACT, and didn’t have the slightest inkling on what I wanted to do with my life after high school, the list goes on and on and on man. The only things that give me pleasure in life is food, marijuana, and sleep.
@@DaPonz Bro, you're literally me
I suffered severe depression and mental disorder due to my addiction to heroin. Not until my mom recommended me to psilocybin mushrooms treatment. Psilocybin treatment saved my life honestly. 6 years totally clean. Never thought I would be saying this about mushrooms.
they saved you from death bud, lets be honest here. and mushrooms are one of the most amazing things on this planet i wish people would all realize. they could solve a lot of problems, more than just mental treatments, environmental clean up; the possibilities are endless with fungus.
I've been looking to try shrooms for depression, just very difficult to get a reliable source here in Australia. Really need!
I'm very sure of Dr.benshrooms
I hate that psilocybin gets grouped with drugs like cocaine and heroin. Mushrooms are a remedy, not a vice!
Mushrooms are healthy , I do them once a year near Christmas and it gives me a boost of happiness until they start growing again , we were always supposed to be doing mushrooms
As someone who suffers from an auto-immune disease, hearing the analogy of "depression is the auto-immunity of mental illness" was genuinely an eye opener.
Now, being able to actually change from hearing new information and new ways of looking at life is still extremely difficult, but at least with the more lenses we have, the easier a resolution is able to be achieved.
I'm in the top 2% and the awareness factor is definitely huge. It's not really surprising that if you recognize our world is basically a dumpster fire right now and you as an individual have essentially no power to change it, yeah that's gonna trigger hopelessness and depression pretty easily.
I wouldn't say I'm top 2%, but tested in 7th, above average, and I can say, the self awareness is just existential crisis. We as humans do things with purpose. It's when you start asking why we do anything where the purpose starts to slip away. Smart people are depressed because they question everything. All you have to do is ask "why" and continue until you reach the inevitable conclusion that nothing really matters. In less than 100 years, you'll be gone, and all progression is at a permanent standstill while the world around you moves on as if you were never there. And it's a continuous cycle. And even if there's an afterlife, wealth, loved ones, objects, none of which you can take with you, but all of which you suffered for. It just doesn't make any sense; how emotion and motivation and curiosity are so meaningless but it's what makes us human.
Life is a gift. The chances of you being alive are infinitesimal, and there's something bliss about that. But why....
i recognized that at the age of 8, and it has been ugly since then
@@tastefulsubstancet's important to regain some perspective in that case. It can feel hopeless to do anything once you fall into existential dread, because we'll all be gone and forgotten, but remember that your life isn't happening a hundred years from now, it's happening in the present. Our unique positive human experiences, our thoughts and feelings and our shared humanity is exactly what gives our life here and now meaning. And even if no-one remembers or records it, the acts of billions of people ripple throughout the world, forming our lives like grains of sand form a beach. Our society has a tendency to worship fame and individuals (to the point where history is reduced to just a string of names rather than the shared reality of millions of people at the time), but everyone is significant in their own small way. I found that living with this realisation and trying to maximise the positive impact I have on society or other individuals has really given my life meaning.
You can't fix the entire world, but you can change quite a lot if you put your mind to it and work hard. And you certainly can take control of _your own_ life. It may not seem logical at first, but that hope and self-belief is essential to actually changing the world.
We gotta take care not to fall into that hopelessness trap, even if it seems reasonable. Cause that shit's hard to get out of. Logic works against us there.
For me it’s the constant awareness that nobody really knows what we’re doing here. Nobody knows who we are, nobody knows what existence really is, and all possible explanations are almost equally as terrifying as each other. Whether it’s a tyrannical god, an infinite ocean of all imaginable realities, as well as all ineffable realities repeating themselves independent of space-time for all of eternity, or a it’s a freak accident that resulted in conscious beings by sheer happenstance, it’s all paralyzingly horrifying. I don’t know what to do.
Every video is literally life changing. I can’t thank this channel enough. Just so incredibly informative, clever, and genuine.
Agree. I found this channel out of nowhere, this particular video being the first or second one I'm watching. It's probably the best talk I have ever seen in my 39-year old life. I was a gifted but abused child in a broken middle class family with an estranged father and, instead, an older brother whose hyperactivity disorder and insecurities made him go after me in every way imaginable. Try and logic your way out of that hole, feeling you deserve the best life has to offer, take healthy risks with the opposite sex and simply "live a little". I remember viewing myself as an unemotional robot in my teenage years- gifted, but different from others.
@@84Supervisor Are you an American? Sadly now this is state of every one of us hopeless
@@pauldirc.. Swedish so just a wannabe one 😆
@@84Supervisor hey I’m so sorry it took this long to get back, I rarely see my RUclips notifications. I am so sorry that happened to you. I had something happen to me that was really traumatic growing up as well. It caused so much anguish in my life that I have been forced to understand how transformative it was. Took me 30 years. So I hear you. I really wish there were videos like this when I was in my early 20s or even younger. I didn’t deserve to hate myself and feel so anxious all the time. And neither did you.
i have a reasonably high IQ in the 130s. i also have diagnosed bipolar and ADHD. i took these IQ and diagnostic tests under the supervision of a psychologist fyi.
when i was off my meds and retested during a depressive episode, my IQ was barely 90.
being depressed nukes your IQ temporarily.
once i was stable on new medications and in therapy, i was tested again.
my IQ increased by 2 points from the initial testing.
I think developing a higher EQ can help strengthen your IQ.
Bipolar AND adhd… wow dude you are a strong guy!!
My therapist and I are having suspicions about a bipolar disorder type 2 diagnosis and l really got scared for a sec. So I’m trying to navigate all of these things while also having a somewhat high IQ.
I hope you’re feeling even better than when you wrote this comment, and thanks for giving me a little bit of hope for my situation
Here’s what at least worked for me to snap me out of a 8yr depression pit from 22-30.
I noticed my mind/ego was playing tricks on me giving me this idea I was not worthy of good things because of my childhood upbringing being told this over and over by a parent. As a child hearing these types of things over and over seeded this belief deep inside me without me realizing it at the time because I remember I never agreed with the statements at the time but little did I know it wouldn’t really effect my self worth until I was in my 20s. Maybe hearing such toxic things being said about you as a child by a parent (father) that society teaches us we should always listen to and obey was the only way my child self could make sense of it. Apologies as English isn’t my native language so I may not be articulating this as best as could be.
Simply put- child loves parents, parent abuses and tells child they are useless/stupid/and the reason for any trouble/problems in the household etc, child tries to makes sense of this but is not possible as child would dare to question/talk back to said parent so the only way subconsciously maybe even is for child to believe what parent says about their child because why else would a parent beat/abuse/punish us if it wasn’t true… (remember as a child we are always told by society/culture/school to be obedient to our elders and especially our parents as they supposedly “love” us more than anyone and brought us into this world so they know what’s best for us. 😅
Anyway I went off tangent but basically I noticed I wasn’t doing anything in life because I actually perceived myself to be worthless and therefore incompetent to make anything of myself etc. Instead of dissecting my deeply rooted childhood trauma and seeing it for what it was, I instead just always made excuses for myself whenever I wouldn’t do something I knew I should have done that would lead to better my life. This coping mechanism became habitual to the point I thankfully noticed myself having a victim mentality to excuse my own self to anything and everything in life that I feared to do (most likely out of fear of failure or rejection).
TLDR
Victim mentality was killing my potential to do anything in life and I kept using it as an excuse.
Had to teach myself/ learn how to genuinely love myself as I never did growing up because in my head I will always be worthless/stupid since this was what I always heard from my parent of whom I should love and listen to since this is what society and schools generally teach us. Slow at first but once momentum started to build up, the thick depression fog/cloud finally cleared out of my life.
Sorry for the ramble, I honestly thought I would just write a quick sentence or two going into it but got carried away and can go on in detail but at the end of the day, this is just my story in a general sense. I truly believe everyone of us still in that dark place, whether it was our fault to begin with or not, we can and WILL rise out of it into this beautiful light of life that we have been far too long without.
🤟🖤
that was very inspiring thanks for sharing, I wish you the best 🫶
Thanks so much for this input, I'm glad things have begun to lighten up for you.
Thank you so much for writing this, I really needed to hear something like that.
Thank you ❤
This is so true.
We get told we're trouble, that we're stupid when we do/don't do this thing, that we'll be worthless if we don't obey.
Yeah. It leaves you feeling impotent. Like you can't amount to anything, so what's the point?
I’ve been dealing with this for months. I keep trying to get past it thru exercise, healthier diet, decreased alcohol consumption… it only stuns the beast momentarily.
Struggled with this for so long and i still am but it’s getting better. The fact that i also have ADHD makes it awful. When i first started college my GPA was 3.9 and i was on the deans list for some time but when the depression + mental purgatory started to secure a place, it dropped to a 1.9. I was unable to function and do anything. My room stayed dirty and things started to seem useless. Suicide made the most sense to me at one point and i felt as if i slipped into a hole that was impossible to get out of. It was like a video game boss that was impossible to beat. You can make progress, do some damage, pull off some clever maneuvers, and put up a good fight but you ultimately NEVER actually BEAT it. At least that’s what it felt like. I started to see hope when i deleted all of my social media. I started to train Muay Thai and MMA seriously and fight competitively. I also started to dive deep into my musical instruments and music production. I was completely away from social media and i stopped gaming for a while as well. I changed my diet, and developed a strict routine. I ran 3-5 miles every morning, hit the heavy bag, and pushed myself as much as physically possible. I also practiced my craft everyday. I started to become happy with personal progress and i had no care or attention to the outside world. It all changed when i got perspective from a guy who was from a different country(he was from Haiti i believe but i could be wrong). His worldview was so different. the aspirations, motivations, and overall meaning of life was SO much different. The things he found important were very common but different at the same time. The concept of suicide, depression, and many other things that are common in American society was almost foreign to him. Idk exactly what changed but i took something so important from that. I’m still trying to make sense of why that changed me because it feels too good to be true. Something that doesn’t seem like much of an answer or a escape put a battery in my back and changed me. I’m in such a weird state of my mind but i just know that i can’t stop because i refuse to go back to how i used to be. Still making sense of things and trying to figure out the direct cause of this change but one thing i know for damn sure is that i feel much better
Congrats! Wish you the best.
Well done man, my journey was kind of similar in that i too turned to running. I was around 150KG at my worst and had to hold my breath to tie up my shoe laces because of my stomach was so big, took 4 years but got down to 75KG and haven't looked back since. I failed so many times early because i was exercising for all the wrong reasons i was trying to do it because of high expectations i put on myself, but when i started to do it for selfless reasons it got so easy it felt like i was gliding.
I got inspiration from sports people that i thought who were perfect but they themselves explained had similar experiences in that they too thought they were worthless based on outcomes of games. They emphasised love, selflessness and appreciation on everything day to day no matter how big or small it was and to not entirely focus on outcomes, it made them happier, more fulfilled and ulimately more successful people, it really unlocked how i could use those same lessons to combat my own depression/anxiety.
I’ve never been suicidal but definitely have felt hopeless (especially recently). I consider myself a decently intelligent person. I do so many of the things you say here in this video. I feel like know what makes me depressed. I feel like I know what I need to do to fix it. But I never do. I’d almost rather sit in my sorrow. I know it isn’t healthy but it’s how I behave. Quite frustrating
Brian, just let it be and don't focus on it. Focus on things that are better and work on them. Work on happiness and make it outweigh your sadness. Focus on things that make you feel good in a genuine way. Simple, yet rewarding things. Learn to express happiness.
I cannot put in words how valuable this was for me. Thank you.
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you
(1 Peter 5:7)
This is what is meant by the phrase "being too smart for your own good." It takes a certain degree of folly to actually be optimistic about our own lives and futures.
That's actually the opposite of the point he makes on this video. Please watch it again to the end. It's really not true what you're saying.
If pain exists, that's because pleasure does. What on Earth makes you think it is the more intelligent decision to focus on pain? Reality as i see it though, is that outlook and intelligence are unrelated. It doesn't take intelligence to see horror or beauty. What does take intelligence is to understand that what you chose to focus on was BOTH a choice and not a choice.
@@Cloven137 You're absolutely correct
As I've gotten older, I can't cry. When I used to be able to cry, it was very cathartic. It is nature's anti-depressant. I have seen a few counselors who are hung up on DBT and kept asking me, "Well, what are you going to do after you cry?" They were insinuating that crying isn't a long-term solution. I would say to them, "I'm going to feel much better and be able to function better." OMG, soooo many opinions out there!
The same thing is true for me. I don't laugh either.
I don't cry in public, hell no, I cry at some movies alone in my room
Even just typing this out feels sorta embarrassing tbh
My therapist tells me the opposite in our sessions. She says cry, cry out loud, I see you choking the tears back. Don’t be ashamed of it. And you are right. It is cathartic. We need it. I hope you find why there is such a disconnect. For me, it was simply that I got tired of appearing weak. Perhaps, somewhere along the lines, someone told me that, and it affected me more than I realized. As I look back at it, I was able to recall that my family often considered my overly emotional states as “weak.” Referring to me always as “the soft one, the weak one, the one without a backbone.” It was quite the opposite. I only had outbursts because I couldn’t take swallowing the pain back anymore. There were many chaotic, violently disruptive things going on in my house. I could not just ignore them. It hurt to see my family in that state, but they were just so content to perpetuate it instead of fix it. As someone who is a fixer-yeah, I was in hell when they didn’t let me fix it. So ya. I shut down. Idk why I’m saying all this. Perhaps I hope you find some clarity with my example. Take care ❤ you are valid, and your feelings are valid, and so are your needs and wants. Even if that is crying. Some may think it’s silly, but there are people out here like myself and my therapist that don’t think that. We think it’s necessary too.
Also, I am sure to some crying is a sign that they are alive and can still feel. I am sure you can still feel the full spectrum of emotions. Simply there is something that needs to be addressed to reconnect that bridge. That’s what I think. ❤
I rarely could cry not that long ago and it was horrible. I sometimes felt the need to cry but just couldn’t, it was like even my eyes betrayed me. Now I cry more often and while I hate that I am in this position, I’m really glad I’m able to express and release these emotions
Hypersensative amygdala makes you only focus on the negative, thus hijacking your perception. Being highly emotional also hijacks your Logic. Thus distorting your analysis and conclusions.
This explains why there has been times where I was depressed, i literally felt helpless, like my life was over. Then when the depression was gone I always became astonished like "wtf was I thinking. It wasn't that bad. How could i not see it wtf"
It is incredibly scary, I've even had anxiety over even remembering the thoughts I had back in the peak of my depression, literally thinking that my life was so empty and feeling caged in my own existance, to the point that the only logical solution for me was to end it. It scares me that I didn't even felt sad about it, I felt sad that I couldn't do it. I was 100% convinced that it was the only way.
Today I am much better, and still working on healing, and have not even thought of that final solution in years, but it terrifies me to believe that at some point in my future, life could kick me so hard that I can fall into that endless spiral of twisted thoughts once again.
Depression fucks with your brain and mind like nothing else. SEEK HELP, and if you can, get out of whichever toxic circle is causing this to you, it doesn't matter what else you might need to give up or lose, there's nothing else that you can't recover or replace, except for your own life.
Excellent
Just wanted to say that I can relate, when you’re at the bottom of the black hole it truly is a terrifying place to be. Your perception of the world and every aspect of it becomes so heavily negatively tainted to the point that it almost feels like you’re going insane, an absolute shell of a person.
Anyway, I’m glad you have managed to find your way out of it at times, I myself have too, but always seem to forget how exactly I came out of it when depression strikes again
Anyway,
@@theshiv3296so how did you get out of it?
This is why I strongly agree with Sun Tzu and his statements about "battling oneself is the hardest battle one man can face."
ANd this is because you can't take yourself by surprise 😅
OMFG thank you. This has been my perpetual curse. I remember, when I was 9, I'd go for walks so I could be alone, and I'd just cry because I was aware of all the really horrible things in the world, and I wished I wasn't aware of them. I wished I could have a lobotomy (yes, I was 9 and knew what a lobotomy was), so that I could be stupid. I just wanted to be blissfully unaware of all the crap floating around in my head.
Oh. I don't know why, but I burst into tears when I watched this video for about 2 minutes. I think my depression, which is now cured, kind of traumatized me or something... As always, many thanks for your content.
for some reason i dont, i just try so hard to go on the fast lane in life and try to figure out my emotions along the way😅
There's a cure for depression? I want it
Just because you cried doesn't necessarily mean you are sad or have trauma. Tears can indicate happiness or acceptance as well. When I feel choked up at "My friends, you bow to no one!", it's not sadness I am feeling.
Depression can be traumatizing. I hope you feel some relief after the cry
Man, I'm 41 this year, and it wasn't until I found your channel that I've come to really see some of the major issues I've been dealing with. Just having this information now helps me to feel calmer and more confident about healing my mind going forward. Thank you so much! You're helping so many people and I'm really grateful I found your channel.
Thanks to Doc K. This peace of information is really groundbraking, I don’t think I heard anyone mentioning this particular and very crucial fact elswhere, although there use to be this anecdotal folk saying among people that “depression is the thing of intellectual people”.
What really bothers me now, is the Aspect of ‘suicidity’ and ‘self-destruction’(which could be a form of ‘slow suicide’). Where does it come from and why it is (same as self opposed logic) is so eager to self harm and destruct. I feel, surelly at least partly, it stems from feelings of ‘hurt’ etc., that you just wanna leave everything so bad, and not exist anymore, but same as self opposed logic, it is so unexplainably ridiculous and dumb, that that state, feeling and actions of self-townt/destruction, can be very prolonged, causing self pain/harm, but for example not taking the step to actually suicide (eg. Passive suicide ideation), which shows that, whatever that is (logic, hurt, …) is not fully commited to some final action or solution, but commited to cause self harm. Interwsting aspect of that also is very prevalent feelings of self shame/hate in depressed people, over the top self-judgment. Also there can be aspect’s of trauma/betrayal patchology. I would say, coming to some positive conclusion, that it all might show “damaged inner conection”, with ‘inner child’/Soul/Spirit, and those negative feelings are expressions of that. This is where traditional psychology lacks and don’t have and do not present answers, dealing mostly with outcomes and symptoms. Only some talented and deepest seekers of truth in life questions and professionalism like Carl Gustav Jung, and others, where readilly perceiving deeper, meanings and were freely interconecting ‘Spirit science’, hence psychology from Latin, is Psyche (soul, mind), Logia (science, study). And when people are dealing with self destruction it’s is really hard not to look and hear what Spirituality says about ‘inner battle’ etc. Facing demons/Shadow/devil etc.
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you
(1 Peter 5:7)
A lot of very smart people are undiagnosed autistics. If you only knew how hard life us as an undiagnosed autistic. Since getting diagnosed last year, and learning to understand my autism, I wonder how I made it as far as I did.
Because you have always been amazing.
What did it change for you after the diagnosis?
@@amandalourenco read my book when it comes out
I took an EQ test "for fun". I am very very below average on everything but empathy. Empathy is pretty much like everyone else. I suck at emotions and its killing me literally
I literally got 0% on well being 💀
What test did you take?
@@catfunt5583 Probably the IDRlabs one.
I don't think that because of your score low means you aren't good with your emotions. You can't over analyze it because you could make yourself more depressed. I like that Dr. K shares his own experience and understanding of emotion. I think you are more than a test score.
Now you know, learn by digging in !!!
I truly believe that peoples who suffer from depression are the strongest one, they go through stress, pain, aimless target without feeling any pleasure, any hope and they still choose to live.
Reading this comment really touched my heart. I think when you are in a deep bout of depression that everything seems hopeless and the negative intrusive thoughts can be debilitating.
I never thought about it from the perspective that persisting through that is strength in itself. I saved this comment so I can read it when I am feeling down on myself and to remind myself - “Look I am strong because I keep moving forward in spite of my emotional state”
Thank you!
I think what most therapists forget to realize is depression really depends a lot on the environment. I lived in UK for a while, I was a very smart and productive kid I got best student of the year award. I went back to Iran, if you haven't heard already just search up Iran's situation. In these scenarios, what am I supposed to do? Not feel depressed? Not feel that nothing matters no matter what I do there's no escape from this hell called Iran? When there's a huge problem out of your reach and control what are you supposed to do? Even if I change my perception, the fact remains that Iran is hell...
Sorry you have to go through that😞
Same. I am an ok student but the situation in my country is crap. There's only like, one or two uni here out of the country. So I was like wtf
Mark Fisher has written a lot about how socio-economic factors play a huge role in depression and that it never has been purely an individual but a societal problem
wishing you all the best
I feel like Dr. K is talking directly to me with this one. It's almost like I'm not alone in my problems.
So I’ve seen a couple of your videos, and I’ve always felt like you were talking ABOUT someone, this one, this one really felt like you were talking to me. Thank you.
Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you
(1 Peter 5:7)
That makes so much sense I'm wondering how I never connected the dots. Never heard it put this way before (never been to therapy or anything unfortunately), but it could also be that you are just S+ tier at explaining things in a way that makes sense to people without all the technical information. Thank you so much for doing what you do, man! You are an absolute saint.
Ignorance is bliss
The more you know, the worse it gets, you really have to "just believe" that you can make things better somehow.
A few years ago I got to my lowest low, I had never attempted, but it was always on my mind, basically every waking moment. Luckily got help that turned down the flow of suicidal thoughts from 99.9% to ~10%. I was able to get off the medication, and after a couple more years, I've finally gotten to the point where I've started to recognize my short comings with my emotional capabilities and start working on them. It has not been a fast process, nothing that matters ever really is, but I am feeling so much more "normal" and happy than I ever have in my life. Just... Stay strong, as strong as you can. Always try, because it will be worth the effort.
THANK YOU!!! As someone who tends to look at things very logically and from an unbiased perspective to solve it, I can assure you I couldn’t “solve” my way out of depression. It goes beyond any sort of reasoning or inner workings, it bleeds into the very soul, and that is what people who don’t have it chronically can’t understand.
I always tell therapist-types that I’m not voluntarily leaving this world before I do something great. I’m a Leo, I need to shine. But I’m so tired and depressed I’m not really doing anything except getting through each day 😢
*virtual hug*
It is true. Not even the most convincing philosophical arguments can't convince you when you are depressed.
Came here to find help for my ADHD people, but am immensely thankful for the help I am personally receiving from this channel. Your radical move away from Harvard is doing some pretty amazing things for this world. Sending you a huge thank you.
It took a long time for me to recognize this pattern personally.
When one is emotionally compromised,
they can end up feeling logically convinced that their current perception of reality
is the ONLY one there is.
The stronger the emotion, the stronger the conviction.
And the stronger the desire to not want that point of view to be countered by others.
Ironically,
no matter how well reasoned the point of view may seem at that time,
often it is the emotions driving the thinking,
rather than the other way around.
(during the compromised state of mind)
Since getting a reality check with others
who are not emotionally compromised for the moment is helpful,
indulging the habit or compulsion toward social isolation
can become unhelpful,
since at that point
the only one available to save the emotionally drowning person
is the emotionally drowning person.
Same
Thank you for putting it into words
Man, I wish you had been my psych. You could have saved me years of running around feeling depressed and anxious. I knew I was logically correct, and I knew that I was sad. And I had no way of reconciling those two realities. This perspective would have helped me so much, and I'm really glad you're getting it out there.
I have an interesting take on this, I kind of came to this same conclusion but differently. I was depressed and used logic for everything. Later I got a chronic illness and had to realize that no matter how hard I tried to understand this illness not even the biggest professionals know how to treat it. I could either spend all my energy trying to figure this thing out or just realize that I don't know what the fuck to do for the most part and use that energy else where. That really took me away from thinking too logically. It allowed me to step away and just feel the world around me and not feel like I had to find the answer or understand it and it's okay to not know because logically there is actually a lot we will never fully understand, and even if we think we do It may be proven otherwise much later. I was able to go "you know what I really like spending time with someone" instead of asking why I just did it and enjoyed the feeling. or if I didn't' like something I didn't over analyze it and try to fix it I just allowed myself to not do it. however I want to mention depression can be very much linked to many illnesses (simply not having enough vitamin D can destroy your happiness and your ability to fix it)
Focus on what you can control. It's amazing to hear how people struggling with the same illness came to the same conclusions with dealing with it.
May i ask what sort of chronic illness you had?
You okay now?
Depression+Logic is almost more of a torment. The suicidal idealization that you mention is a very real threat.
In addition, understanding that you need to get up and do something, but also being unable to do so, while telling yourself there's no rational reason that you cannot do said thing, absolutely makes you feel worse because "This is stupid, why am I not just doing this thing?"
Being aware that it's entire "in your head", and despite that still being unable to do anything to change it in that moment...
It's absolutely a sinking ship mentality.
This is SUCH an important topic.
Thank you so much for talking about this.
And to anyone reading this: If you find yourself in that spiral of "I should be able to but I can't" and beating yourself up for it, please seek help. I've been to the bottom of that spiral and it doesn't end well.
I'm losing my fight in life because of this. I've been stuck in that cycle for a while now. I know exactly what I need to do but I cant seem to garner the strength to do it and you're right, the more I think about it the shittier I feel.
This is exactly where I’m at. It’s such a hole to dig myself out of, because I know, I KNOW if I just do certain things, (exercise, diet, therapy, cleaning, etc) I will eventually feel better. I’ll feel better after doing said thing but I just don’t.
Same here. I hope we can get it through. I sometimes feel better and can do at least something, but then fall into a pit again. I know for sure that beating up urself for it is unnecessary, if you can, next time think that it's okay and try later. There should be something that will eventually work, right? We have a lot of examples here of such people.
This hits way too close to home
It's like 2 voices in your head Spoke and Cpt. Kirk... Kirk has some genuinely good ideas sometimes to rise to an occasion, to a moment. However Spock keeps whittling down Kirk until the compromise has become a poorer choice lile indecisiveness... And you have to come to terms that you are not Schizophrenic. But rather self-critical and still burdened with indeciveness.. am i ill or do i simply have a point.
You are right up my alley. The way you dissect illnesses and complexes and your perspective is spot on and I've not come across someone who tells it so succinctly with such gusto. You are a godsend
Me as a medical student, I thought depressing is just because of the thing that I face. But actually because I’m extreme logical in stuff. When I feel good, It’s very useful. But when I feel bad, I thought why I’m so ‘overthinking’. But when I found this clip, bro I’m so thankful😊. I reallize why I am so good about analyzing but hurt so much when I use logic to solve my emotion. Many time depression give me bad assumptions and now I understand now why it happened. Also this ensures me why I need meditation for develop my emotional awareness. Thankyou again❤
@iib_bronych.3572
Hi, im also a medical student and it looks like i have been suffering from the same problem with you and also this video helped me to change my perspective to look at my problem. If it is ok can i get ur any social media account so that way i can ask some questions and talk about this topic with you.😊
Dr K. thank you from the bottom of my heart for this video, I have dealt with depression from a very young age and within 20 mins of watching you explain I feel like I have made a break through… you may have actually saved my life. To think this video was free is insane.
Again Thank you so much I’m nearly 24y/o now and although sometimes I feel I’ve not achieved enough due to my mental instability I now finally feel like I can build on top of this and start living my life to the fullest ❤❤👊🏼
After years of therapy, some highs, mostly lows, I think I now understand why it seems not to help in a long run.
As a prisoner of thought processes and slave of compulsive behaviours, son of an alcoholic and simultaneous victim of bullies in early years of my life, with literally no safe place to escape but virtual worls, always stuck on a battlefield of thinking things trough for a search of a way out and on a constant fight with social anxiety I fully resonate.
Funny, how for a fair while in a row each time I feel stuck on my adventure to improve myself and face another obstacle, trying to break a wall with my head you emerge with another answer to my exact problem.
Thank you for what you are doing Alok, you are a safe haven for uncountable amount of people. Much love to you and to all people reading. Stay strong ya'll.
My logic led me down a decade long rabbit hole of depression. I would have small spurts where things seemed to improve for a couple months but i was never able to pull myself out completely. I am very intelligent but my emotional awareness and social skills lack substantially. It doesn't help that I spent years alone stuck in a "end it or not" loop. I wanted so badly to stop feeling because I was so ashamed of myself. I tried so hard to find an answer... now I know why that didn't work. Thank you HG
The problem for me is that I just really really *want* to logic my way out of it. It’s ironic, of course, because doing the same thing that hasn’t worked before is itself illogical but no matter how many times it fails, telling myself that I just didn’t logic hard enough will always be a more palatable proposition to me than trying to build emotional intelligence because I just don’t want to have to acknowledge my emotions; I’m scared of my emotions. I’ve been trained from childhood to see my emotions as dangerous.
It’s hard to get help with this because I’m not even comfortable talking about my emotions with therapists. I’ve had about 5 therapists throughout my life and every time it’s just been too easy to talk in circles about vague abstract philosophy for an hour so the conversation never has to get real. Every single time I go I tell myself this time I’m not gonna do that but then I do it anyway.
Honestly, I hate hearing that emotional acknowledgment is the answer because I hate the experience of having emotions. I wish I was like a rock or something, just stoically floating through space never feeling anything. Makes me think of that line from that song: “if life’s not beautiful without the pain, I think I just would rather never even see beauty again”
I feel very similarly. Especially about the continued failures to logically snap myself out of it- I just keep trying again and again because a part of me knows I should be completely fine, and keeps trying to convince the rest of me that that is true, but it never works. It is so frustrating especially because this began relatively recently and I was doing great before.
maybe show your therapist this video to kind of out yourself without having to say anything. the unfortunate thing is not all therapists can handle clients like us with this thought pattern. i’m currently on the search for an out-patient therapist coming out of an in-patient ed program which just adds another layer to my problems and in turn another specificity that filters out available therapists as well as needing a trauma specialist of sorts. i will say i wish you the best of luck and i really do hope that you will find a lasting way through this that truly resonates with you
I think bc u can’t face ur emotions therapy won’t help at all. I think u should slowly let urself feel them alone. Ur traumatized and I’m sorry ur family failed u
@@amariza9013 Hey, I've been doing so so so much better in the past months and I remembered this comment and I just thought I'd say thank you and that it meant a lot at the time. I hope you are doing alright, let me know!
This could not have been more appropriate for me today. Had myself a good cry after. Thank you, Dr.K and everyone working to make these videos. Currently feeling a little less alone ❤
Emotions work like signposts. You can be conscious of them, not necessarily follow down their pathway ALL the time, but you can notice them and use them as a guide to things.
I've always been a "logical" thinker. I've always enjoyed problem-solving and figuring out how things work, which is definitely a double-edged sword when you can't "find the answer" to happiness (even though there is no one single answer). I've been in therapy now for a little over 2 years now and on meds for about a year and a half. I should've started therapy 9 years ago in high school when my dad was sick and passed from cancer, but my logical brain went into survival mode to help pay bills and pay for school. I also "felt fine" about it, like, yeah he was sick and passed, it's life-that's how death and loss affect me now, but that random grief with him comes and goes with hard cries every now and then of course. Other than that, I had a wonderful and privileged childhood with 2 loving parents who supported me with every interest I had.
All my old hobbies, interests, and passions died, and the majority of things don't seem "fun" to me. I'm "fine" these days, things don't feel bad but they don't feel "great" per se-just kind of like floating in a weird purgatory from day to day. WAY better than I was over a year ago though, which is good to remember. The meds definitely helped with my chronic exhaustion, but don't seem as "effective" as other meds have been for people I know, and I'm on my 3rd med combo. When I try to do a hobby my brain processes it as a chore and says "this should be fun and enjoyable, but it DOESN'T FEEL fun and enjoyable.. WHY?!" and then I don't want to do it. It's the expectation of how it should be making me feel (here comes all my logical thinking). Nothing piques my interest enough-I've never found video games fun, if something isn't meant to physically help my living (like cleaning or cooking, although those also aren't fun) my brain says "there's no point in doing this" and is always searching for efficiency for functioning.
I really liked what Dr. K said about how "you feel worse for not being able to fix the problem that I should be able to fix". It's true, it's a shame cycle. Something doesn't feel worth the time or effort, but I don't know what that other thing is and the answer should be "just do something no matter what it is if it serves a purpose or not", and then I do, hoping for that relief of fun and enjoyment, and when it isn't there shame, guilt, and frustration come in and it repeats.
It's a cycle, and an indicator that habits need to change. I feel like I took a lot away from this video and will be bringing up these points to my psychiatrist and therapist in the next week.
I feel you in regards to hobbies and passions dying. I'm in a similar boat. I found Apigenin as a supplement helped to bring the passion and enjoyment back into my hobbies for around a week before the effects started to wear off. Not sure if it was a good idea though as I feel like I've slipped back into my normal ways again and it sucks! That one week was awesome, I felt 10 years younger and had interests in my hobbies, I'd lay awake at night too excited to fall asleep, planning out the following day. If anything, it has shown and reminded me what life 'should' feel like to live.
I got out of this by finding someone to care for ( a dog). Plus fixing my sleep pattern and going for walks.
Isn't this the whole irony though?
We are logical and good at analyzing stuff.
If there was a cause for you to feel like shit, well then you'd have reason to feel like shit, so that is logic.
This is why depression is a mental illness. It feels shit when it shouldn't. It's like illness, but rather than if affecting your lungs, it affects your mind. Both are important organs to function.
All this logic but we struggle to put it together, because the brain has become biased agianst itself or something.
I’ve found that the word “should” is toxic. If I feel like I should do something because it’s good for me, it feels like a chore and I won’t do it consistently. However, if I consciously focus on what I like about a hobby or activity, and deliberately visualize myself enjoying it, that creates intrinsic motivation to do it.
Of course it’s possible an activity isn’t for you, but even things I truly enjoy seem like a chore when I tell myself I “should” do them. It’s all about how you talk to yourself, and almost tricking your brain into coming at things from a different angle.
You also don't have to have hobbies. Many ppl don't.
This is absolutely true. One of the problems my therapist helped me figure out was that I was consistently intellectualizing my depression and mental health in general and that it was actually making things worse by trying to logic through it rather than coming at the problems from a totally different starting point to best take advantage of the benefits of CBT and various positive coping strategies that allowed actual progress (even if slow) via the therapy sessions and lifestyle changes suggested and just generally being willing to both open up emotionally in talk therapy and focus on what I _feel_ without filtering it too much through what I _think_ in the wrong contexts.
Man.. I wish I could have learned this 20-30yrs ago. I think I started dealing with something like this before I was even in my teens. However, for me I think it was less logic and more emotion. But I'd dealt with some things early on, and I knew that they had messed me up to some degree, but I didn't even contemplate how. When you learn ways to survive with it, when you distract yourself and find ways to think less, it just gets harder and harder to change your way of thinking. I've had people tell me what I need to do all my life, and it sometimes makes sense in my head, and sometimes I even feel like I'm progressing temporarily, but then it's always just like.. an all-too-familiar overwhelming recognition of truth that overcomes you like certain doom. Therapy wasn't even a discussion when I was younger, and I've only recently been piecing together what's happened to me over the decades. But, after years of compiling problems on top of problems, and missing out on so much in life, it just feels like what's the point? I'm told it's not too late over and over, but my brain just doesn't comprehend how it couldn't be when I missed out on so many important things that develops peoples character from an early age. Understanding how depression works certainly puts things in perspective though, so thanks for getting this out there.
I feel you. When opportunities are lost, how could they be compensated for? Not all things are possible to compensate for and they forever disappear in the days bygone
Really appreciate hearing this message. When you said, "Emotions can trump logic", I felt like..... I knew that, but this video really pushed the message down into my brain.
Thank you.
❤️
It’s hard to take a discussion on depression seriously that doesn’t include larger sociologic factors or in other words the health of one’s environment.
My thoughts exactly! And culture.
Wow, from the beginning to the conclusion, you "depicted me", doc. This video has been so comforting in a way. I don't consider myself as a bright mind, but since age 13 (I'm 35 by the way) I recognized that I have been relying on logic and analysis as the "optimum" way of scoping and solving different problematics in my life. Three things hit right near home after listenning to you: firstly, whenever I talk about my depression and the fatal vision of my life I become a Mister know it all: I know all the reasons, I know all the means, and I know that I'm ultimately in a no way out ditch. And that's it, there's no option, no alternative, but apparently dying. Secondly, I have noticed that as the years go by, I have become overly emotional in the sense that I'm easily triggered by situations in which I'm negatively predisposed, I take things very personally, and I unneccesarly tend to raise my voice and I act aggresively when I asses that I'm being threathen or challegened. And lastly, I felt so identified when you said that in the end the most painful ordeal is not knowing how to fix yourself. I consistenly tell to others around me: the thing that kills me is that I'm unable to make an U turn in my life. As you said, my perception is so damagining and caustic that any idea that comes to me as a valid alternative, I have made it useless and worthless by my falacious reasoning. There's also mix of a transversal fear and a wide and deep comfort zone, but I have identified myself as my very first enemy and I'm irionically and sadly so eager to self-sabotage, self-loathing, and self-pity. Yet, thank you.
I've had this exact struggle and have been dissecting it in therapy for the last few years. Thank you so much for sharing this talk!
This was very helpful to hear, thank you.
Emotions can really be scary, the way you don't have control over them, and they gaining more control over you the more you try to control them.
Highly analytical and logical person here who thought she had no feeling after a childhood trauma and unprocessed grief nd pain. 5 years ago I figured out that besides my high cognitive capacities am also an underdiagnosed highly sensitive person. Relying on my smartness worked well in my early years afterwards it got upside down until I had to learn to accept that I have feelings and to cater to my emotional world. Thanks for this video! At least am not alone ❤
About emotions hijacking reasoning - I see it in myself all the time. I'm usually very depressed and emotional at the same time, so I try to logically think about what is happening and what to do, and it only makes the pain worse because I start to think I'm the one to blame and I'm the worst. But when I'm really tired (let's say, after a long flight, or very tiring day of work), my emotions are muffled, and I can think much clearer and realize that everything is going just fine, I just need to be more calm and relaxed about things. Sadly, I don't know how to control my emotions without being dead tired, and that's something I'd love to learn
This makes so much sense from an optimization point of view:
When reasoning can't help process the emotion (yet that's all you learned your entire life), of course it will worsen the situation by keeping immaculately aware of the problem and one's own incompetence in solving it. Any considerable misfortune that's not easily fixed would pose a massive threat to mental stability by offering an emotional extreme for logic to get stuck in...
Funny thing just happened a second ago: As I watch this video towards the end, the solution he provided to acknowledge more of your emotions and depend less on your logic had me thinking, “this is just another coping mechanism. It’s not actually solving the problem 🙄.” Sure enough, that’s exactly my LOGIC talking and keeping me down lol!
Then I briefly thought of the past moments when I’m feeling depressed, then something comes up or someone does something for me that makes me smile and laugh, I automatically take in the positive feelings I’m having and my depression suppresses (it never goes away, but I chose to acknowledge and hold on to the positive feelings as long as I can).
The hard part is getting more of that. With life as it is, I don’t get a lot of those good feelings. But it’s up to me to be proactive and find it, rather than waiting around for it.
This is the exact mix of theoretical and practical knowledge of counseling that I was looking for, and I am baffled that something so helpful is free for the public via your channel. Thanks Dr. K for all that you do. 🙂
Not only it can't stop you. It is going to make you do it. Logic is a powerfull tool, and depression is going to use it against you.
That’s when we use emotions to overcome the depression
I’m in depression from 2020 (better or worse throughout the period), and in therapy from 2019, and man, you’ve just described my personality from head to toe. I just can’t thank you enough for that insight I’ve got while I watched your video. Thank you very much!!!!! ❤
It’s been since last months of 2018 for me. Can’t crawl out of it no matter what and how many times i tried. Also, can’t connect with people, tired of being alone or getting hurt
I just want to thank you for making this video, because it actually helped me learn a lot about myself.
I don't think im ridiculously smart or anything but what this video did make me realize is I have been making my way through my entire life using only logic as my guide. All of my choices are filtered only through logic instead of from understanding myself and what I want.
I've had severe anxiety from a very young age, and this video actually just helped me realize that I have been suppressing my emotions for as long as I can remember. I've been feeling severe anhedonia for a while now, and I've been desperately searching and searching for a way to swim up out of it: all with logical methods. Hilariously, come to find out, it's because I haven't been letting myself feel emotions. I think I let my fear control me so much, that I was literally throwing a blanket over my entire emotional center, subconsciously. I think somewhere deep down I figured, "well, if I just hide all of them under the rug, at least I dont have to experience fear." Overtime I think this made me not understand what emotions I was even feeling, I've lost touch with what even makes me happy or what happy even is because I was trying to keep myself from feeling ANYTHING in a desperate attempt to not feel anything thats negative. I was beating myself up for being bored. Paradoxically, when I told myself, "what's wrong with being bored?" instead of trying to force myself to "take advantage of your time", I STOPPED BEING BORED? It was literally the most profound experience I've had in a while, like I had an entire perspective shift in one single day. Like I'd learned more about myself in one day than I had in the last few years. This video really helped shine a light on that for me, on the fact that I would think in logical methods of "man this should make me feel happy" instead of just FEELING. I don't know if I'm even getting this message across correctly because it's still kind of new to me. But I do know that instead of trying to do what seems logical, instead I am looking directly at how things make me feel, and letting those emotions wash over me: even though they feel extremely overwhelming. I feel raw, almost vulnerable. When I first started feeling this, I was frightened, and I almost turned away from it, but instead a weird thought popped in my head, "what's wrong with feeling afraid? what's wrong with being excited or embarrassed?" and this opened up an entirely new perspective for me. Anyway, I know I'm rambling but I just wanted to say thank you, because I dont think i was depressed, but this video seriously helped me examine myself and help me start down the path of learning who the hell I even am, what I really like, and to dive headfirst into emotions and new situations and experience them. Even if they are scary, feeling emotions feels so good, in a way I can't explain. I hope anyone out there that can parse through this information, if you were going through something like what I described, try to just drop the logic. Turn your head straight into your emotions and just feel them, experience them. Even if it's scary, just feel the scary!
A parting note of something else I also did: I got off social media. I think the cynical nature of people online and especially in places like twitter or reddit really starts to create a negative feedback loop inside of us subconsciously and starts to paint our entire world with a cynical brush. Anyway, I wish the best for all of you, and just wish to say, thank you very much Dr. K.
wow what you wrote is just deep. i feel understood. thank you and keep being great!
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am experiencing exactly the same and this message gave me so much validation and Peace.
"Logic" is one of the things that caused / worsened my depression. That's why part of my therapy was exactly to get a logical explanation for why I was wrong. Without that, the "logic" explanations I was telling myself would have kept going
So what you're saying is, you used logic to destroy the logic?
No lie, this is actually what i do on a regular basis. I am constantly playing devil's advocate with people online IN ORDER to be proven wrong. I WANT to be wrong, and I've been essentially trying to find those answers through other people in this weird pseudo-trolling.
@@slamkam07 That's brilliant in a way. The closer thing to truth is synthezised and fleshed out by a larger community of many searching minds, so it's reasonable to test your own logic by conversing with others. I just hope you're always being respectful despite disagreeing in such discussions.
@@AHeroWith1000Names Oh, of course. Attacking someone even just verbally won't get you anywhere.
@@slamkam07 Awesome :) Wish you the best with dealing with your inner demons, mate
Hey Doc, I don't know that you'll ever see this in a sea of endless comments, but thank you for your work. You're doing great work, as a logically sound man, I often struggle with acute depression, and many of my triggers for said depression are due to real world events in my life and obstacles that I face on a personal level, and just as a man.
I'm sure that many men here can relate, that being a man is not always an easy thing. We always have to be publicly strong and stoic, like we're a bunch of emotionless robots. We're forced to suppress our emotions by society, as it is viewed as a weakness by a society composed of men and women who view any man going through struggles or depression as weak.
This can be observed all the time, when you see such powerful influential people like Jordan Peterson having a breakdown, only for the public comprised of majority women, but also men, ridiculing him for having a breakdown as a world-renowned psychologist. Your IQ and profession will not save you from depression. Like you said, those of us who are intelligent, and who rely heavily on logic struggle with depression more because we can use our logic and reason to sort of make sense and justify the depression.
When I get depressed, it hits me hard because it's due to real world events that may be out of my control and I can't reason my way out of these problems. It also doesn't help that I really never have anyone to talk to about these issues that can understand me, or even worse, give a shit. Let's be real here, society as a whole seems generally disinterested in the struggles that many men face, and women simply do not care about a man's struggle.
I'm married, and trust me when I say I've tried many many times to sort of open up and speak to even my own wife and end up even more frustrated and depressed than when I started, simply because she can't relate or comprehend what I'm saying to her even though I feel as though I'm speaking in straight direct English. I understand that we are biologically different, I'm referring to men and women, but this is why many of us men struggle so much, because we just want to be heard and there is simply no one listening.
You said it in a previous video, that men are apprehensive about going to therapy. You were absolutely right, because I'm anti-therapy because I believe that most modern therapists give absolutely terrible advice towards men. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but most therapists statistically deal with far more women than men, most therapist are women, and most therapists are very left-leaning feminists. When I see these types of therapists, my logic instantly kicks in and I tell myself"why bother venting to an apathetic misandrist who will only tell you that your issues are your fault and that you just need to be a better man?".
This may sound insane, but this is what a lot of men go through when they try to talk to a therapist. Especially when it comes to marriage and relationship counselors, where I've heard stories of them defending cheating wives and trying to convince husbands to open up the marriage to save the marriage. Do you truly believe that these therapists would recommend the same "treatment" if their clientele were men complaining about their wives? I'm guessing they would not.
I understand where you're coming from. I think we're political opposites but nobody seems to understand what men are going through. Even organisations that supposedly fight for their rights don't even listen to them. They have preconceived ideas about how men should be and not fitting into their preconceptions would quickly disqualify you as a man
So true. That's why i dont tell my female therapist about my difficulties with relationships and other thoughts in that area. But I'm also hesitant to look for a male therapist cuz I'm afraid they'll just tell me to 'man up'......
@@franks777_KFP it's always a never-ending struggle by brother. At the end of the day, we as men only have each other to rely on. That's why while I'm anti-therapy because of the pool of therapist that give terrible advice, I would love to deal with a therapist like Dr Orion Taraban who specializes in relationships, men's issues, and generally speaking gives great advice that is easy to understand for everyone. Unfortunately, with therapists like him, money is a huge issue. At least it is for me.
I remember challenging my therapist on the logic of my suicidal thoughts back in August last year, figured much of it was based in stress after taking 8 months off.
I do not consider myself as a person with a high IQ, but man Dr K is spitting. Because now that I think about it, I do try to logic my way out of depression which only seems to make it worse
This guy just explained my entire life. It's what I've slowly been realizing as I've talked with my therapist over the past year, but to hear it all laid out like this, as explained by a professional, and to hear that there are ways to fix this, is so helpful and validating. I was violently nodding and pointing at the screen at one point, lol. I can see how my cycle of thinking keeps pulling me downwards - I take my conclusions from past failures and decide that I will always fail, that nothing will ever get better. It's so easy to use logic to come to a depressing conclusion, especially in our modern world, which, besides being unnatural and soul-crushing in itself, demonizes emotion. Emotion is bad, emotion is useless, being emotional means you're dumb, having emotions doesn't solve problems - in a world where Productivity is the only thing that matters. Also when you're a smart woman, you use your intelligence and logic to further protect yourself from emotions because being an ~emotional woman~ is just further ammo to be attacked and/or brushed aside by men, and even other women (men (some men, gotta preface for the idiots) hate smart women too - you just can't win as a woman). Being vulnerable is the fastest way to get hurt.
I've definitely worn my intelligence as a shield, but it's become my prison. I think my perfect storm was having a narcissist as a father, being 'smart', and also possibly being neurodivergent (not sure, trying to figure it out - trauma, anxiety, and depression can have the same symptoms as ADHD, but they also feed each other, yadda yadda). When I had emotions as a kid they were either made fun of or openly criticized - what a great way to raise a child. Emotions were annoying, a nuisance - ostensibly because he couldn't handle or understand his own. I'm emotionally stunted by a trifecta of narcissistic abuse, social anxiety (and/or neurodivergence?), and my own intelligence working against me. I'm finally learning, as a 31 year old, that it's okay to have emotions, and sometimes logic doesn't fix the emotions, and that's okay too. I've done yoga and meditation before, and I've been wanting to do them again, so hopefully this is further motivation for me. Now, to actually do it is a whole different thing... (yay depression? anxiety? adhd?) sigh.
i think really looking into my core beliefs and where they come from during development and traumatic upbringings and trying to rewrite that is helping me alot, like having the belief that being authentic and being myself would only lead to abandonment and being outcast, so with that core belief any amount of logic couldn't get past it, now looking into childhood stuff i'm able to be a bit more fair when i try to logic whats happenin.
i think one of the coping mechanisms i came up with after going through a terrible long depression was to detach a huge part of my brain away from my identity. i see most of my brain as a kid that only a part of me inhabits. the kid wants to do the right things and make things easier for itself, but it has little knowledge how to do it, and easily gets frustrated and self-sabotaging. whenever i get washed up by negative thoughts or feelings i can look at my brain from a detached perspective and see its the kid acting up, give it a few words not to be so hard on itself, and then put it aside and take over. if i have any positive thoughts or experiences, it no longer drowns in the negative feelings. i can separate the two from being a product of the kid brain and actual experiences i have had
i dont know if it makes much sense. i think the idea is just not to take your brain too seriously. its locked inside the cranium and doesnt actually know whats going on beside what nerves around the body tells it. yes, we are kind of the brain and have a much bigger perspective than a lump of wrinkly fat hidden in the darkness, but i think our conscious self is just a desk worker sitting inside the brain. we dont run the actual brain department. we have to stand up for ourselves when the boss of our brain department does not get the full picture and acts irrationally because of it. i guess in my case i turned that boss into a confused kid so its easier for me to take the reigns instead and guide the brain, without having to endlessly argue with it as an equal, which otherwise just devolves into insults
i think just a quick sidenote, this isnt how i view kids in the real world haha. for me the association is just that the brain is too immature to know what its doing, so its not fit or responsible enough to lead me, and its okay for me to dismiss it. this also helps a lot with being skeptic. instead of just second guessing what other people are saying, you also second guess your own thoughts and feelings
This is a lovely and at the same time very helpful way of looking at your brain and it's capacity to shift the situations you are experiencing. I will screenshot your thoughts, I think it will help me to except the situations I find myself in and allow myself to be open towards my emotions.
I hope you are in a good place, thanks for sharing your sweet wisdom. @littlevampiregirl100
yes ! that’s a tactic called defusion often used in ACT, DBT, CBT (types of therapy). if you want to read up on the technicalities and/or some other ways to utilize it :)
@@amariza9013 you nailed it, reading up on defusion thats exactly what i have been doing. when i took my brain too seriously, it felt like it was overpowering me. when i started to put it in place, expecting it to still overpower me, instead it felt like a little child going back to its room to let me handle things haha
Yeah this is defusion
This is what I'm trying to do. and I even gave it a name. Just started doing it recently. But the only problem is I never treated it as a child. but my other self. I guess treating it as a kid will make it more effective.
Learning to accept it and sit with it. Helped me understand somewhat. I still have alot to learn. But it's apart of my being