Enemies to lovers went from being about two people who fall in love with each other despite their hatred and differences to an irritating, annoying privileged man forcing himself on a woman.
@@theatomicanniethank you, I'm so glad people understand my frustrations with how tropes are being written. Last week I saw someone call a book enemies to lovers between a victim of kidnapping and the kidnapper. Like that is not enemies to lovers. AT ALL
Btw this was amazing just subscribed. I don’t think I have the bravery to make a video on this subject yet but I’ll inch toward it soon. This was awesome!
@@londonsoul9424 hey! I will just out right recommend my favorite book Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. It's unlike anything out there. The less you know the better! Anything by Robbin Hobb as well. The Farseer and Liveship Traders trilogies are amazing.
@londonsoul9424 ... so I'm gonna throw Caithlin Rozakis' "Dreadful" out there. One of the few new fantasy books that pleasantly surprised me! Good if you like self-deprecating humor and books that buck tropes in odd ways. Not an epic, but it was fun.
I think the two main problems here are: 1. Marketing. This is the big one. There's nothing wrong with a book being mostly romance and not much else (there's a whole genre for that in fact!) but these kinds of books shouldn't be recommended to people who are mostly in it for the fantasy element, because the fantasy stuff is usually just set dressing for the romance plot. We need a distinction between 'fantasy with a romantic subplot' and 'romance in a fantasy setting'. 2. Writers trying to do two things at once and not really succeeding at either. I think a lot of the authors you mentioned really just want to write a steamy romance with elves or fairies or werewolves or whatever, but because they're writing in the romantasy genre, they feel obligated to include more plot/worldbuilding that they just don't care that much about. If they just embraced the fact that they didn't want to write a fantasy story, but a love story in a fantasy setting, they could concentrate entirely on the romance and (hopefully!) develop it a little better.
Exactly. If you want to write something “steamy” just embrace the fact that you are writing literal porn and nothing of substance. Don’t pretend you are writing anything remotely close to true fantasy and stop besmirching the genre. It’s like trashy isekai ruining the reputation of the whole genre and turning people off of it. If you want to write fantasy, put some damn work into it, into the worldbuilding, the themes, the characters. Don’t half-ass it. Go all out. Put your most creative, innovative ideas on the table. Write something that calls to people, that challenges their thinking and makes them think. Don’t just write smut because you want to appeal to horny people and get off. Write something compelling. If you put characters you are attracted to in that story, that’s fine, but at its core, I should be able to find some semblance of meaning in it.
this is called paranormal romance and people forgot this genre has existed for decades - romantasy is just the rebrand trying to trick fantasy lovers into thinking it's a fantasy book with smut instead of, like pnr, a smutty book with fantasy elements, possessive men, and special fmcs who are supposed to be self-inserts fantasy books where the fmc is a bland template for self-insert just aren't fantasy books, IMO; i want complex characters, quests, stakes, and action in a fantasy world. if i want to read smut, i know i shouldn't be expecting anything complex at all. Romantasy doesn't mix these two genres well in a way where both are equally compelling - one of them almost forcibly outshines the other, and it's never the fantasy genre
@SingingWithMyself-Frozen A very, very good point. Decent drama/romance can absolutely stand on its own. There's real skill in bringing tension to a story that is solely character focused, like romance. Throwing in fantasy elements like political intrigue, mystery, adventure... I mean, you can tell when an author doesn't actually care about those things, and they're just there for flavor. They don't add anything when written like that, they're just adding to the word count.
The greatest difference imo between Zuko turning good and becoming a friend and these romantasy books is that his change started within himself and his personal world. It wasn’t because he necessarily liked Aang or any of the gang but because he was changing himself. He saw injustice in his own world and learned to stand up for his own beliefs. I mean he even betrayed his uncle but his love for his uncle and eventually himself was what moved him. The romantasy men change for the girl and it’s so shallow
They don't change for the girl, imo. They change for this fucked up, warped, pedestal-placing IDEA of the girl. This is why romantasy often falls flat for me. It can be a page turner in the moment if you want an escape, but I won't come back to it or remember it 6 months down the line because the characters never actually get to know one another. It is romantasy and usually they're The Chosen One or Royalty or something so basic chores will never be involved, but they've never had to reconcile their differences because of work stress, the sink is full, and the laundry hasn't been done for a week, you know? Maybe I want something too domestic and realistic than the romance world wants to offer, or maybe women and femmes don't want to be reminded of how often men disappoint them and relegate them to sexist responsibilities in the real world, but there is a glaring lack of character understanding with evidence in the text that makes the love so unbelievable and shallow.
I feel like romantasy would be more bearable for me personally if the love interest was actually swoon-worthy. Like… maybe someone who is compassionate, or likes surprising you with breakfast in the morning, or sings while folding laundry, or gets emotional over puppies, or SOME amount of emotional intelligence. Or if we want dark romance, imagine a partner who will swing a sword FOR you, not AT you. Someone who tears apart your enemies if you’ll only give the word. Someone who is dark and terrifying but will always value their partner’s consent. There are a lot of different ways for a romantic partner to be sexy, but acting like a douchebag is, IMHO, not one of them.
That sounds like a good many traditional male fantasy heroes (the Knights of the Round Table and their Ladies comes to mind). There's a push of the last 10-20 years to break all tradition and avoid all (traditional) tropes for the sake of being "new" and "unique", but there is a reason that certain themes hold up so much longer and are valued so much more than others. So I agree with you.
Honestly? Even as someone who likes creepy, morally questionable love interests who behave questionably ~towards their lover~, I agree. The nature of the callousness these male love interests always seem to have from what I've witnessed from the outside isn't even appealing in a fictional context to me as someone who likes that kind of stuff! It's just. . . Too realistic? The creepy behavior feels like actual violence, which is not appealing, it feels like if someone wrote a gritty, painful novel about the horrors of war, but tried to act like it was all 'cool and admirable' at the same time, as if they were writing a scrubbed, fantastical version of a war, not depicting a realistically horrible event. It feels tonally dissonant and upsetting, not like a dramatization of a romance with a villain that would be terrible if it played out in real life. It feels like it's terrible as it's playing out on the page, and not even in a 'deliciously diabolical' sort of way. If the love interest is going to be a creep, and it's a fantasy book, and you want to make it exciting, why not write it in an unrealistic way? Why not go full Phantom of the Opera or tragic, obsessed vampiric lover like Carmilla? Why not commit to the tender passion, the soul-crushing dedication and reverent worship, the breathless, wide-eyed adoration, the fixation that leads to extreme lengths being taken, the purple prose of it all, ~the romance~? All these trashy men act like they think the lead is less than dirt and treat them accordingly, and that's just. . . Depressing. The satisfying bit about the darkness, to me, is it's like an almost cartoonish representation of what I guess could be called 'cuteness aggression'? A very intense portrayal of somebody loving their person so much, they just have to squeeze them. Whereas in these books, it really looks like it's more like the men are disinterested or mildly disgusted. They're swatting flies, exerting control over something beneath them that serves a purpose as a tool for something in their life, not going 'Oh my Gods, I love and cherish and need this person so much I'm going to explode if I don't hug them so hard they pop. I must put them in a nice little box and never let them leave so I can always be around them and nothing else can ever hurt them, because if something ever hurt them, {manic chuckling} I'd rip the entire world to shreds and then float around in the void for the rest of eternity in a catatonic state!'. In short: They can't even romanticize their atrocities correctly!
A friend of mine ranted about this whole thing the other day and on the point of characters feeling immediate bodily attraction to each other despite hating each other she said something along the lines of: "they're falling in _lust_ with each other and the girlies are telling me that's love and leave it at that throughout the rest of their 500 page books? Respect my time _and_ your own characters enough to either build a better romance or let them stay hating each other with f*cking every now and then" And she was so right about that honestly
I'd be more interested in this genre if it was Fantasy with hints of romance rather than romance books that read as though the author included fantasy elements so they could conveniently make these characters do whatever the author wanted them to do. There's very little world building, everything that happens is so the characters can win some kind of battle (with very little fight) or to get down to the sexy business. I like that there are people who find joy in them, but I'd be too pissed off reading about possessive hot rich kings who are 500 years old.
I really liked "Emily Wilde's Encyclopedia of Faeries" because it was a fantasy with a romance sub plot. Even though you still have the typical "you're so annoying" dynamic between the two characters. I did find it quite funny tho.
What makes me seething is this psyop about "You dislike it because or the romance with a female MC! You dislike it because it's new to you!". My fucking God the RAGE. Literally the one most spammed "modern classic fantasy novel that's not coming from Tolkien" book has a female MC with the coolest magic power that kills the Evil Emperor and falls in love with the noble dude. I am talking about Mistborn, ofc. Vin is fits almost all basic attributes of what these girls and women say they want, but she actually has a character, suffers and doesn't always win and her love interest is like a normal human being with his own agency and ideas. Mistborn is peak "romance subplot into actual fantasy plot" and the second book focuses on it even more. Hell, there is a troubled girl with superpowers wondering what man she should care about while her city is under siege. Bitch I have been into this stuff since the middle 00s, your magical heroine ain't nothing new to me. The difference is that Vin was a character, these "heroines" are self-insert for your erotica
I know you kind of touched on the male love interests being tanned but as someone who is male, PoC, and a reader I find it more problematic that these yt authors are making the love interest ambitiously brown for the sake of diversity, for that checklist. And when they say that "Yes, this [insert Romantasy Male Love Interest] is PoC" not only do they make him toxic as hell, they also add this whole problematic aspects of slavery allusions.
@@PlaceholderName-b4d that's part of the problem. These characters are like Schrodinger's POC. If people really praise them, then the author can go "Yeah, they're not white!" If people hate the character, they can retreat and say "Oh, they're just a white person with a tan."
The fact that I picked up book 1 of Throne of Glass rn (never read anything by Maas, that's my first time) well, this will be interesting I'm so moving on to Robin Hobb after that book, go on a little therapy, if you will (what's that blue dragon that John Howe drew WHO IS THAT)
If romantasy was sold as a subgenre of romance FIRST i wouldn't have as much of an issue with it. Romance books, depending on their variety, can include very strange, implausible, imbalanced relationships as well as very fluffy surface level sugar and vanilla stuff. But FANTASY and speculative fiction at large has always been about exploring an idea and the sense of awe, and exploring new worlds and political adventure plots. Im so tiredddd.
That subgenre exists and it's called paranormal romance. Honestly, the 'romantasy' branding reminds me of Nicholas Sparks going on about how he doesn't write 'romance', he writes 'novels that happen to be about romance'. Like - no, all y'all are writing romance novels, stop being weirdly elitist about it.
WTF is romantasy? It’s either a romance novel set in a fantasy world, or Fantasy Romance or it’s a fantasy novel with a romantic SUB PLOT. Are we just making up a new genre name because we don’t like fantasy romance? FYI, if the plot is driven by a romantic relationship, then it’s a romance. If the plot is driven by adventure, or discovery or good vs evil etc and there is a romantic sub plot, then it’s a fantasy novel with a romantic subplot. This sounds like YA fantasy romance. Oh look, we already have words to describe this. 😂
This video was like a damn therapy session. 💀💀💀 I feel like a weight was lifted off my shoulders bc all of my pet peeves w romantasy was touched on lmaoooooo
I had the same idea but writing a parody of the isekai genre aftre watching the anime "Konosuba". Then I realized I could make my characters go through infinite pain and suffering in a dark fantasy setting
In the same vein, Fourth Wing was so aggravating I finally figured out a semi-original dragonriders setting (let's be really, they're all just derivatives of Anne McCaffrey) and I'm writing it out of pure spite.
I started reading ACOTAR when I was exhausted and depressed and cannot be bothered to use my brain. It was fine as long as I do not question any plot points or character motivations. They are trash and majority of the people reading them know it. I am concerned about the actual young adults who read these solely however. Then again there is a positive about this genre. When I was reading classics and books with substance in them I was convinced I was never going to be a writer. This genre make me believe I can be a writer. Not a good one but maybe a popular one.
I definitely see the appeal of these books as well and feel like its always a win to get people into reading! But I am also a big advocate for diversifying ones reading taste. They won‘t ever know what truly good writing feels like 😬
lol this is the same reason i listen to certain pop music from time to time, it makes me feel better about my songs locked away in my notes app ☠️ but i feel this honestly. i used to write fan fiction and i got so good at mimicking a certain author’s writing style that after a few years without reading the books things will pop into my head and i genuinely can’t remember if i wrote it or if it was canon 😭😭😭 it was a YA romantasy series but i feel like the fantasy aspects were much stronger than the romance, it took the initial love interests 7 books to get together… and maybe it was the tall dark haired guy trope but she doesn’t even end up with him bc when he starts being an asshole she dumps him. also there’s absolutely no spicy scenes or feelings bc it’s written for like adolescents. the friendships are just as compelling as the romantic relationships. the villains are interesting to read and don’t screw the main characters (also thank god because the 1200 year old x 17 year old trope is GROSS) and in this series the ancient people that look young are written so you can tell they’re older and any age gap romance would be weird AF. i honestly feel as though this series is more mature than most YA romantasy now for the reasons listed.
I think it’s a bit condescending to condemn a whole subgenre simply because it’s not for you. Also while I did notice inconsistencies here and there, I strongly disagree that the ACOTAR series is trash. There are plenty of “pure” fantasy series out there with bigger issues than that one. It also sounds like you only read the first one which is probably the weakest, but on the other hand that’s been the case for many, many series I have read. I’m not going to sit here and defend every romantasy out there (*cough* Lightlark *cough*). I just find your point of view disagreeable.
i used to like the ACOTAR series...when i was a teen and didnt read any better (plus didnt rly have that much of a critical perspective on the stuff i read in general since i inhaled books of all kinds lol) it took me about a year of reading more and better stuff to realise how bad it is 😂 at least i'd like to hope that not every ya romantasy reader case is hopeless hahah (also agreed that these book do heal ones impostor syndrome regarding writing 😂)
I'm a big fantasy fan and can honestly tell you that I don't enjoy most Romantasy books, they fail at the fantasy and they fail at the good romance building. But someone commented about how they don't think smut counts as reading and I just want to say reading is reading, let's not punch down and yuck others yums.
@@vaderkurt7848no one is telling you to like it . The original commentor was saying this same thing of letting people have their own thoughts without going out of the way to constantly make it a point
If you're talking about @theactingfantasy's comment " I’m of the opinion that a person who truly cannot read a book without spice doesn’t like reading, they enjoy using books to consume pornography. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I don’t think they’re readers" ^that is not a blanket damnation of smut as non-reading. That context is important.
Romantasy is like the times when all my favorite tv shows were being ruined by unnecessary shipping culture, but now with books this happens from the very start and also there's sex in it
As a child I stopped reading the majority of YA because a lot of authors think teenagers are stupid and add dramatic backstories (dead parents, abuse etc) for shock factor without exploring them and then add shoehorned, badly paced romance to keep people reading. So when these things started popping up in the FANTASY books I was reading I was so pissed ngl 😭 And another thing is that, at least for me, I read for escapism. whether it’s high fantasy or even if it’s smth like Maya Angelou, where the escapism aspect is that ‘she went through so much yet still built a good life for herself and her community. Maybe life isn’t so hopeless’. And personally I don’t want a romantic relationship, so to see these books of PURE escapism having bad hetero romances in them felt like ‘you can imagine a world with dragons, where there are wizards, but falling in love with a man is inevitable’ which idk just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. And often these books will make their mcs girl bosses and feminists when there is nothing feminist about their books at all. Like young cis white mc falls in love with a dark, (but still white- maybe Slavic for some spice) older man and they kill people together while somehow always complying with traditional gender roles 😍and she never has to assert herself because he just knows!! He never even asks for consent😍 if that’s what you want in a book that’s fine, but for them to portray themselves as progressive when they’re not is a bit annoying.
As a side note, oh my GOD it’s just occurred to me that the eastern European coded male love interests almost always fit into stereotypes 😍😍 Привет детка, меня зовут dark ‘eastern’ dominant aggressive masculine evil from-an-ultra-patriarchal-culture/country sexualised мужчина. Anyway it’s hella weird that these authors include no explicit poc as major characters. (Only to then make a white character they can racialise when and where they want so they can pretend they did)
@@azlanadil3646 Teens aren’t as smart or experienced as most adults, but YA/Teen media seems to think they are all the same flavor of horny moron. I skipped this demographic and went straight to adult when I was younger for a reason, insanely frustrating and un-relatable!
Men don’t have to be horrible, but the way they’re written in these kinds of books don’t really help the fear. I think it’s partially a sort of sexualized anxiety spiral: “even if a guy like this takes an interest in me, I can still come out on top by making him fall madly in love with me. And then he’s rich, so I’ll be a princess!’ Honestly, even the majority of real, historical kings and princes were not such… these characters are not real people, let’s just say that. They’re half fetish, half phobia.
"No, I want her to look like *this* when he pushes her down the stairs!" sent me, thank you. Also, my biggest disappointment in A Court of Thorns and Roses was that the MC sleeps with a fantastical faerie WHO IS A SHAPE-SHIFTER but they have...very normal, vanilla sex. Like...this is a fantasy world and you won't even commit to the bit?!
i firmly believe that romantasy is a subgenre of romance, not of fantasy. the main plot is the romance, the writing style tends to resemble the average romance more than fantasy, it's most common flaws tend to be the same as romance's most common flaws (ex: the plot and world and characters outside of the main couple tend to be. lackluster. which is in my opinion just an extension of how one of the most common stumbles for a romance author is the plot outside of the main couple being incredibly contrived and flimsy). like, i think my annoyance with romantasy would go down at least *a little bit* if it were shelved with romance rather than sjm taking up almost an entire bookcase in the fantasy section, and if people stopped putting it in their "fantasy" recommendation lists. it's romance with a heavy fantasy element rather than fantasy with a heavy romance element. and some romantasy fans have tried to say that people who think romantasy isn't fantasy just have internalized misogyny and don't think books written by women can be categorized as fantasy. which (1) self report lmao. why do you think that something being romance makes it lesser? (2) i've read plenty of fantasy written by women, plenty of fantasy with a heavy romance element, and plenty of fantasy with a heavy romance element written by women that i would NOT characterize as romantasy. and i also don't think romantasy is just "any fantasy book i don't like". no, i don't like basically any romantasy book, but there are again plenty of bad fantasy books written by women with a heavy romance plot that i wouldn't consider romantasy, just shitty fantasy. this is why i think people who really like fantasy but not romance (such as myself) tend to dislike romantasy books while people who really like romance but not fantasy or especially people who really like both tend to enjoy them. because they're not fantasy, they're romance, so if you don't really enjoy romance you're probably not going to like them.
For real, so many romantasy is 2 hot people who hate each other for seemingly no reason then bang because they made it to that page-count, with 0 chemistry. I got so annoyed i took the time to sit and write one i would actually like -- just 1 book, not a series, where the characters learn to communicate and understand each other's needs. The last 1/3 of it is literally the 2 of them just trying to be a good couple in a healthy and respectful relationship. couldn't find it on the shelf, so wrote it myself 😅 probably won't get a huge readership, but at least i have it to go back to and read anyway, love the video 💟 good to know i'm not alone in this sort of mindset
As a young adult author, I find it really encouraging to watch videos discussing writing tropes and pet peeves. It’s reassuring to know that my approach to writing is on the right track. For instance, in my current book that I'm writing, I explore the enemy-to-lovers trope. The characters start off with a lot of animosity due to valid reasons and family influences, but as they spend time together, they gradually come to understand and appreciate each other. I focus on making sure that their flaws and positive traits are portrayed authentically, without glamorizing the negative aspects. It’s a journey for the main character, starting from being uncomfortable around the other person, to developing a friendship, and eventually falling in love.
As someone currently writing a more lighthearted romantasy novel with no intended smut (Maaaybe a fade-to-black scene but that would be it), no actual love triangle, an MMC who’s very much NOT a brooding asshole by any sense and who gets along pretty much immediately with the shy FMC who enjoys gardening and reading, videos like this make me half worry it won’t get picked up at all because that’s apparently the exact opposite of what readers want and half hopeful that people are tired enough of the same thing that it’ll at least have a shot at being published. >_>
"The Savior's Book Cafe in Another World" was a cute and cozy read and similar to what you're describing. The only thing I wished from that series was that there was a tiny bit more conflict and the MC was forced to go out and explore the world a bit more. There is an audience for it though, we're here!
This video hits so many good points! It makes me want to write romantasy books that defy the tropes. For example, I had an idea for a story about a wise old prophetess who believes her granddaughter is destined to be the chosen one, and marry the king of the fae and bring magic back into the human realm. But when the fae king comes to collect his bride, he chooses the grandma instead of the granddaughter, because he wants someone wise and kind to rule by his side. The grandma then has to prepare herself for being a queen and reconcile her relationship with her granddaughter, who is upset at her destiny being stolen.
Lmao that’s awesome. I’ve been watching vampire diaries and have been saying that I want to see the show where vampires fall in love with 40 year old divorcees. Wouldn’t a 200 year old person have more in common with someone who has figured themself out, been in love, faced adversity, and taken the time to mature? There is no reason some immortal being would want to be with a teenager unless they are predatory. Faeries or vampires, it doesn’t matter.
This is very much paranormal romance, with an emphasis on the romance, and not a huge amount of exploration into the psychology, BUT - Lynsay Sands has a vampire romance series where a few of the heroines end up being elderly women who are the 'fated mates', and I've always found that trope subversion to be delightful. Also - I would read the hell out of that story you pitched, so if the Muse cooperates, please do write it.
This is exactly why i like middle grade fantasy a lot more lol. It has less focus on romance, more focus on characters, platonic relationships and world building. they are also unafraid to be bold in their premises, unlike a lot of romantasy which tends to stick to the same few types of fantasy worlds and magic systems. great vid tho!!
The characters are supposed to be very not skin deep if they follow their life experience, but are always so shallow and obsessed with looks its just off putting. No progress just being for the sake of being. Its not believable. Also should be 500+ years old but think and act like 16. So irritating
Romantasy can be good. It's just that for most, the "tasy" aspect is so useless. The fantasy is almost always lacklustre...the plot nonexistent, characters unlikeable
@@theatomicannie 😅😅 now I'm nervous, you might have heard of these... Emily Wilde's encyclopedia of faeries; uses footnotes which may not be for everyone, no spice Half a soul; cozy, low fantasy. I personally enjoyed the romance. No spice Someone you can build a nest in: not sure if it can be classed romantasy. Queer/Sapphic. There's gore Reign and ruin; I haven't read this yet
@@theatomicanniekeeper of the lost cities. definitely targeted to a younger audience, no sex, slow burn but actually slow burn. no romantic relationships form for at least 5 (long) books and that’s all i will say about that. it’s more of a fantasy series that happens to have a love triangle in it but it does not drive the plot. world building is VERY complex. series is still not finished, i highly recommend it. i haven’t read it in years because im too busy now but its definitely one of my favorites.
@@imawakemymindisalive13 I wouldn't say it's romantacy, but it is straddling the middle grade and young adult divide instead of being young adult or new adult.
Funny how They don’t even excel in the thing they get marketised for. Best example of enemies to lover is Jaime and breinne started “wench?” “You will call me Brienne. Not wench.” “My name is Ser Jaime. Not kingslayer To “Brienne caught him before he could fall. Her arm was all gooseflesh, clammy and chilled, but she was strong, and gentler than he would have thought. Gentler than Cersei, he thought To “We’re taking the wench.” “Her name is Brienne,” Jaime said. “Brienne, the maid of Tarth. You are still maiden, I hope?” Her broad homely face turned red. “Yes.” “Oh, good,” Jaime said. “I only rescue maidens.” And that’s the tip of the iceberg of the dynamic between Jaime and breinne
It's kinda weird to me that so many of these YA romantasy books with "enemies to lovers" are basicly the "Oh he pulls your hair because he likes you!" thing girls get told when a boy is bullying them, but dilled up to 1000
“It’s like everyone playing Barbie’s” I think the ones that are writing these books wanted to publish books about what they played when they were a kid 😂
As a late millennial woman who began reading with classic 90s/2000s fantasy authors (many of them women, like Diana Wynne Jones & Sherwood Smith), then went through my teens during the 2010s YA boom, I feel a lot of the frustration you describe at seeing patch-work tropes held together by soulless bad writing & barebones worldbuilding-precisely because there’s so many stellar examples of those same tropes being done well that I remember from before BookTok-driven publishing. It’s absolutely galling to think of all the money & resources going into churning out hardback, illustrated special editions of all these books that I seriously doubt people, even folks who enjoyed them, will want to re-read.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but a slight correction is necesary. Cruel Prince is not romantasy it's a political ya fantasy. And the enemies to lovers trope is only truly explored in the second and third book in the series. The entire trilogy had fallen to tiktok's false advertising when people started to recomend it as a romantasy when it's very much not that type of genre.
@@juliannakreft thanks for your comment. It is categorised as Fantasy Romance on goodreads at least and a lot of people also advertise it as such. But I wholeheartedly agree that tiktok markets things weirdly. Also, I see that the enemies to lovers aspect is explored further in the second book but with the constant attraction toward Cardan that jude is internally expressing and them kissing in the latter half of the book i feel like the boxes are checked for a YA romance already.
@@theatomicannie Goodreads categories are often wrong. The author herself wrote it only as YA fantasy not a romantasy despite what marketing say. Sorry if I'm coming out too strong I just saw a lot of people being dissapointed and rating it low because they expected it to be a romantasy when it was never written to be one in the first place. It's only confuses new readers.
Ah i can see that! But maybe some peoples expectations for what romantasy is might also be at fault. Maybe they want a very specific thing and the characters kissing in the first book is not enough for them? But I don‘t know. It is truly tricky with this book. And good marketing really is not a given these days! 🫠
My avoidance of this genre started way back with Twilight when I began to deep dive the author's personal life. It's actually a really good way to understand why these kinds of books tend to lean towards heteronormativity and little to no BIPOC representation. The rabid smut as cover for convervative ideals is actually quite strong.
Its also crazy the amount of self inserts there are. My friend and i used to read the description of YA mcs then google what the author looked like. Some thirty something year old woman is legit fantasizing about an abusive relationship with a 'sexy' stalker then projecting it onto teens. Ick.
I appreciate how you articulated your thoughts. The only one that I've read to completion was The Cruel Prince, and it's not perfect, but I think it definitely deserves points for not being p0*n disguised as fantasy literature and having fae that are incapable of speaking lies (Mas got on my crap list FAST for that one, she basically just made abus1ve elves). Great video!
@@cookiescuentosandquejas5639 thank you! ☺️ thats true! The whole smut chapter in the video was just directed towards New Adult which Cruel Prince doesn’t fall under.
aaaa thank you for perfectly summarizing my thoughts!!! i've felt like the odd one out for a long time for being unimpressed with the endless procession of entitled dark-haired oh-so-handsome clones & their canned "you're *m i n e*, Y/N"-style dialogue. recent romantasy is the written equivalent of zebra cakes-esque junk food slop & that's fine in moderation but i'm done pretending that it's anything more substantial than that. also, at the risk of sounding like a "puriteen" or whatever, it kinda makes me uncomfortable how heavily this is pushed to younger & younger readers??? like i remember a librarian recommending SJM to me when i was 13 & my experience wasn't unique; the book club at my niece's school has a young fantasy reader's list & it's full of "spicy" romantasy titles.
Honestly, I loved Acotar, but my main problem with the books was the fact that every single character (except for the villains) were Mary Sue's. Feyre's only flaw was that she couldn't read, Rhys kept some secrets, Cassian could be a bit bitchy, Azriel was a hopeless romantic, Mor had secrets too, and Amren...I don't even think she had any flaws. SJM Only gives flaws to characters that she wants you to hate on, propose. I was so damn shocked when Nesta (one of the most troubled characters) Actually had flaws. In my opinion, if you can't make a good character with flaws than you need to up your writing game.
I did not like any of acotar until Nesta’s book. I love nesta. The rest of the series is so bland, predictable, and full of Mary sues that as soon as SJM sat down and just wrote a gigantic piece of shit character I was immediately roped in. You can ignore all the plot holes because having a character with actual personality and flaws is so incredibly out of left field it’s distracting.
Not to mention ppl dog piled on Tamlin. Like not justifying many of his actions but at the same time it’s like romantasy writers and readers have an aversion to morally grey characters. (Characters who are written with the intention and acknowledged as morally grey, I’m not talking about that Rhys withholding important medical information and autonomy from his wife, then being written like he’s in the right bullshit)
In theory romantasy sounds really fascinating. You could create so many interesting, unique, deep relationships with all the new social dynamics, magic systems, cultures etc. But that is just not done, at least not in the stuff that gets popular. Haven't read many of them, but also from all I heard I would not like them. Maybe it is just me being bi, but as you said these characters are just so cliche, unattractive and gender existentialist. Big fan of fantasy, and while I don't like mainstream romance, I do like real feeling, original romances. Also love good (!) dystopias, and found the comparison interesting.
I'm so glad that romantacy has come to be recognized as its own subgenre because that makes it easier for me to avoid it when I'm looking for fantasy-focused books.
Strange the Dreamer is sooooo good; I wouldn’t classify it as a romantasy because it’s that much better than all the other books in that genre, but the romance is more than a subplot. Actually it’s like the perfect balance, a beautiful romance with complex, imperfect characters, and a super well developed fantasy world and supporting cast that is the chefs kiss on the story. It came out a few years ago, so maybe that’s why it felt so unique compared to everything recent, but I’ve just never read anything like it and it was amazing. Also everything you said was incredibly validating, I’m so glad I’m not alone lol
I want the genre to improve because I do think, if written well, a romance can greatly enhance a story and develop its characters. However, it seems like most romantasy authors are only inspired by other romantasy authors, and readers aren't interested in books that don't fit the weirdly specific criteria of such novels. The community has become an ouroboros where it's seemingly impossible for new ideas to flourish. It also feels like a lot of people prefer romantasy because they believe it'll elevate them as readers above those who just read straightforward erotica, which is ironic because there is such an emphasis on "spicy" content in romantasy books.
the further irony is that a lot of erotica will use intimacy as an actual plot vehicle and opportunity to explore relationship dynamics (because intimacy is an important part of most romantic relationships!), as opposed to generic “spice” that can be sprinkled on sometimes for shock value
I don’t mind romantasy existing, I just can’t stand how it’s being shoved down my throat. It’s harder to find fantasy without romance in it. I found Fourth Wing independent of the hype, and I won’t deny that I had a good time reading it. But honestly, I think that’s because I truly didn’t care about whatever romance violet and xaden had; I was there for the dragons lol. All the sexual tension and stuff went in one ear and out the other, I was reading the non-dragon parts to get to the dragons lol. Iron Flame is definitely worse and the ending is incredibly stupid. Also, I’m of the opinion that a person who truly cannot read a book without spice doesn’t like reading, they enjoy using books to consume pornography. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I don’t think they’re readers.
I also think that the dragons were the strongest aspect of Fourth Wing. I need to read up on the Iron Flame ending I think. I am too nosy :D especially with the third book coming out soon. I can't wait to see the reviews of what is likely to be a total mess.
@@theatomicannie Xaden turns into a venin to save Violet for some reason, I think she was being threatened by a venin lord or something and xaden turned into one to save her? I don’t fully remember, I just remember hearing it through the audiobook and being like, “that’s… so dumb.” Especially since the reveal of it was cringy and melodramatic.
@@theactingfantasy honestly, it feels like AI was used to finish the book because the author couldn't hit her deadline without it. It just felt so... weird. And Violet's mother changed character so ridiculously fast from how she was described in the first book, it felt so out of place. I also feel like the whole thing with Andara is just a way for Yarros to get herself out of the "plot" with Xaden now by using Andara's ability to go back and change things. It's kind of a guilty pleasure for me, but there are definitely better books out there.
It seems a lot of the dragon stuff might have been inspired by the Dragonriders of Pern series down to the telepathic link between riders and their dragons, although to be fair Dragonriders of Pern was like THE early dragon-centered fantasy series, it was very influential.
the only book on here i'd go to bat for is TCP. on the enemies to lovers section, idk if you simply forgot or if the information was revealed in the sequels, but the reason Cardan and his friends antagonize Jude is because Locke led his friends to believe that he liked her, implying that she's the reason why he and Nicasia broke up (spoiler: he was actually with Taryn, Jude's twin). the other books deserve to be put in a shredder though (sans Divine Rivals because i actually haven't heard of it).
Same, honestly. Holly Black doesn't deserve to get lumped in with SJM and Yarros and Armentrout. I remember being 10 and picking up Tithe and how honest-to-goodness terrifying her fae worldbuilding was and how fully queer she made it. We got queer and POC characters from Black's YA books in 2002 which is honestly CRAZY and at the time, each felt so rare. TCP wasn't my favorite in the trilogy but I just simply do NOT like bully romances and that fully is what it is (a meaningful but subtle distinction from enemies to lovers). Her latest book also kinda did nothing for me but I still love her for her actually monstrous fae.
I feel so validated by this lmao I hate most of the romantasy tropes. It really feels like a lot of writers and readers are going through their wattpad phase right now and now we have to suffer through these kinds of stories being published and marketed more than ever before. 😮💨
The "mating" thing is insane to me. It's probably my single greatest turn-off. Unless I'm reading about dogs or Australians, I don't want to see that word.
you're real as hell for this :) i will say that i read a lot of this kind of writing fully with the intention of consuming garbage, so i don't mind blatant smut, so long as the author isn't pretending to be some kind of visionary. that said, while i could write my own novel about all the other things i hated about it, i read the first crescent city book, fully with the knowledge that at least if the writing sucks, there'll be smut, and then i discovered that in this 800-page book, there's no smut until 600 pages in, which should be a crime- how does someone write about nothing for that long (bc all these different, "important" plot points get crammed into the last 200 pages)??? at some point, these writers need to pick a lane
I don't know, maybe it's the aroace in me, but I'm always so annoyed when the introduction of a love interested is absolutely drowned out by the author beating you over the head with "they're attractive, ok? They look so gorgeous, you can't even imagine!!" Because 1 - it always makes me dislike them on instinct, 2 - it becomes so obvious that they're not really a character in their own right as much as they are a "love interest" and anything that happens to them will directly tie into their romantic potential and 3 - it's just annoying. I wanna see a love story (esp if it's an enemies to lovers) where the characters come to respect and understand each other before they feel any sort of attraction. Like, yeah, people fall in love in different ways, but also - it's not just pretty people that get to fall in love. I think stories where a characters aren't absolutely drop-dead gorgeous, where they aren't immediately drawn to each other, has so much more potency and authenticity to each other, because then you actually get to see why they come to feel for each other. Not just because they're both hot. Maybe even a character that isn't seen as attractive by the mc at first, until they get to know each other better, and the love interest becomes uniquely beautiful to them. Sorry for the ramble.
How far we've fallen from romanasty like kushiel's dart. Jacqueline carey was too ahead of the time with her sex worker spy in a political web of a sex positive society. Her writing it top tier but because she added kinky sex the early 2000s were not kind. 10/10 recommend
I didn't like it because it seemed predatory to raise kids to be sex workers, it's the same issue I have with raising kids to be child soldiers. But I'm glad you liked it. The first person POV also threw me off, so I lost interest fast.
@@mittag983 those critiques are valid but when I read these as they were being released, I focused more on the religion of love, sex positivity and queer acceptance over the sexually active teens but thats probably because I was one just trying to figure things out. Besides that I've read those two things done far worse in other books that dont get nearly the same push back. Also the mc uses her power and privilege in later books to push for reforms in those practices
@@mittag983 it IS predatory, but it's also commentary on very real expectations put on many children in real life. Writing a story from a twisted scenario is not automatically to say that it's a good thing. Personal dislikes are of course a valid reason not to read someone else's fantasy setting, but it's good to recognise the author probably writes for adults for a reason.
@@jasminv8653 Did you try to tell me in a passive aggressive way that I'm not an adult lmao? I'm an adult and I read books with a much more dark subject matter than Kushiel's Dart like Blood Meridian or Lolita. By the way here in Germany the book is marketed YA, which isn't adult at all. To me it was simply dissapointing that this sex positive setting had grooming because a lot of right wing people already act like this would happen in a sex positive society, which only scratches the ice on the surface. There are other reasons I didn't like this book like I said: I don't like first person POV because to me it often feels juvenile which didn't fit this story in my opinion. It's too wide reaching, reading like a diary is not suiting in my opinion.
i have a friend who really enjoys this type of books and i feel kind of bad when she recommends them to me because i don't want to tell her that i find them pretty boring
Me too. She honestly loves them so much and I just can't tell her that I hate most of them. I've read books she recommended me and I hated but I told her I liked them. We just have very different tastes.
There's this book I pulled out of the shelf by chance at a bookstore that also has a reading area for certain uncovered books. It's Hexologist by Josiah Bancroft. The summary is hilarious "The king would like to be baked into a cake" and I just went with it. Sat down and read it. It got a lovely established married couple since the first 20 pages and they both goes on this journey to investigate what has plagued the king to have such delusions. They joked about their singed carpet. Quote and jokes with eachother while the husband is cooking and the wife is checking the mails if there's anything from the royals. My one rule about picking up a book for my reading comfort is that it must be written in "Third Person perspective". I get turned off and sour when the book just goes 'I ran to him' instead of 'With no hesitation in her steps, she broke off to his awaiting embrace'
it's so annoying seeing the booktok girlies who read only romance smut doing a "I read nothing but fantasy for a week" videos and its literally the exact same as what they normally read but with magic and weird names.
You know what else sucks? If you tell someone you didn’t like the first book of a romantasy series, they tell you the sequel is better. How about the writer make something that can stand on its own first?? I am not wasting my time on a romance if you’re gonna make them split by the sequel in favor of the rapist!
The best "friends to enemies to friends with huge difference in ideals but still care for each other in the end' is Prof X and Magneto from the X-Men series. Their chemistry and dialogue when both are in a scene together is just fantastic! I got half/way through Fourth Wing before dropping it. What juvenile dog dooky
So, my main issue is less with the genre and its tropes and marketing or whatever and more specifically how people interact with it. I *despise* the argument "you dislike it because you can't handle the female MC/point of view/whatever and because people costantly shit on the interest of young women". This is a whole can of worms where a lot of grown ass men in their 30s still live. They can't accept that young girls may like something they don't. But it's besides the topic that enrages me. The point I wanted to talk about is that they try to hide behind this "you dislike it because muh sexism / you are a pick-me". No buddy, I dislike it because it sucks ass. There have been countless books before with female characters as the MC that loved someone and had a sexuality. It's just that your brand of this isn't well written. Just looking at my library I see the Black Magician trilogy, anything with a female MC by Sanderson, I see Le Guin's books as well, by the way. A woman not exclusively writing about young women, think about that! Your YA/NA fantasy romance ain't anything new darling. It just has more porn into it. This honestly sums up the entire topic as far as I am concerned. Many of these are young people or new readers, and it's wrong to shit on them BUT there is a reason why we dislike these things and wish people read more stuff. Damn, I remember whatever I read back then myself, but that's not all I have read in my life. Fellow Italians will surely remember the craze for Licia Troisi's books which, for the not fellow Italians, was a rather big author back in the 00s for fantasy over here. And I swear to God, looking back at it her books feel like Booktok stuff. Badass young women MC who somehow also cry endlessly all the fucking time. Terrible worldbuilding. Characters that are there only as props for the MC to either love, be better than them or kill. Magic that's basically a plot device but pretends to have a system. But even in that, you could still find nuggets of something else. She had some original ideas as far as fantasy concerned for example. Yeah the worldbuilding wouldn't last one small analysis, but at least it wasn't just "medieval fantasy copy of X real country" or "fae magic!". At least some characters sometimes had stuff to do that wasn't related with the MC existence (ex: in the second book the male love interest goes on his own sidequest as an ambassador to some potential allies in an underwater nation. Yeah, imagine that, he more stuff going on than being horny AND it was something fantastical!). And I cringe looking back at them, yet I still feel some kind of fondness for them. Because I grew up, I developed my tastes, but ultimately that's where I started caring about fantasy as a genre (and literature in general). But the fondness is related with that: my experience with it back at the time. As a grown ass adult now, I have been exposed to more stuff (I *looked* for it) and developed a taste of my own. Hell, maybe if I read them again I would enjoy parts of it again, dunno. But God, I am not still reading THAT and only THAT kind of thing. This is the issue with Romantasy. Sure, the 15yo picking up a fantasy novel for the first time may enjoy something like Lightlark. I understand why they like it (albeit I am not comfortable with how much the entire genre is basically just erotica with a disguise on and it's being sold to young girls). But after they are 15yo they become 16yo. Then 17yo. At some point they will hit their 20s. And then their 30s. Will they still onl read the kind of thing that Lightlark or Fourth Wing are? Because that's what it looks like. It has been 4 years since the Covid outbreak and the same fucking pattern of books is spammed endlessly. And the same people pick up the new entry in the Dark Violent Brooding Man Controls My Life But In Fantasy-land genre. If this is all they are exposed to, if they never receive the *IDEA* that there can be more to fiction... it's just sad to me.
As soon as I seen you refer to romantasy as the "yassification of fantasy" I instantly knew I'd like this video 😆 the reason I hate romantasy so much is because it has so much potential to be fantastic. I love fantasy and a lot of them are lacking in the romance sub-plots and sometimes I do want something that balances the fantasy and romance plots but it's never the case, the romance always overshadows the actual plot (if there even is a plot) and authors are using revolutions as wars as backdrops for the romance/smut which. Just stop (never mind the amountof these books where the smut overshadows even the romance). They're always predictable and over-stuffed with tropes, and the fantasy itself is lacklustre with only surface level world-building, magic systems that never make sense, and the majority of characters are one-dimensional props. Oftentimes even the main characters are cardboard cutouts of tropes (FMC's whose only personality trait is #girlboss and MMC's who are "alphas"). I too could rant for ages about how disappointed I was with this genre because I want to love it.
I'm curious when you say fantasy books are lacking in the romance sub-plots. I mainly read fantasy and probably 80% of what I've read in the genre has at least one romance subplot. And I am not particularly seeking that. Do you mean there is no romance or the romance plots themselves are lacking ?
@@gracie9658 I mean that they are definitely romance books but a lot of times they’re not exactly romantic? They’re just ~spicy~ like the two characters are just horny for each other from page one which is hard for me to classify as romance even though it technically is if that makes sense xD they don’t date/court each other they just banter and make innuendos until they “give in” and it’s hard for me to see that as a romance is all
@@gracie9658 may have actually read your reply wrong rip what I actually meant about fantasy lacking in romantic subplots was regarding like fantasy fantasy not the romantasy sub genre. Like Under the Northern Skies was a great military fantasy trilogy but there’s no romance besides a political marriage (which was done well imo but still) and there are definitely other books like that where the plot is focused (which is good) but any romantic side plots aren’t done well or are very lacking. A lot of fantasy now typically has more romance in it especially YA
@@JesseRowanShawe I see, I feel like YA fantasy has always had romance, usually not great but there nonetheless. It's true though that a lot more fantasy in general has more important romance subplots in it now and it annoys me sometimes. I actually agree with your first reply, lust and banging is definitely not romance to me lol. It needs to have emotional connection.
@@gracie9658 yeah YA has always been romance heavy I feel but adult fantasy has been a mixed bag until romantasy became really popular. I’d like it more if it tried new things instead of rehashing all the same played out tropes and the same characters just different font or if they put actual effort into the fantasy/plot and wrote a better romance that didn’t rely on spice as much
yeah i agree with you so much, many romantasy books are the same now, shoving random tropes into them, always trying to have enemies to lovers, having the same boring characters, and too much spice or whatevrr. its so hard to find new good books these days, its annoying and sad
This video is so cathartic! I really want to like romantasy as someone who loves both fantasy and romance, but I'm so sick of being disappointed. I really hope the genre can evolve into something better than what it currently is
as someone who reads a lot of gay chinese cultivation romantasy, i found them all to be so much better since the main leads are mostly doting and not toxic, and the archetypes of the main leads are much more diverse. plus the're mostly slow burn, like when the two main guys hold hands in volume 5 it makes you kick your feet and giggle like a school girl, it feels more earned than if they boned on chapter 1
As an Asexual person who like to read and likes fantasy the over saturation of spice in books is really annoying to me . I just want a good fantasy book with friendship and maybe a little bit of romance as a side plot. But that is becoming hard to find.
Try Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings. Fitz and the Fool have this deep, almost spiritual friendship that's borderline romance. But but aware, everything is very, very slow.
the name "romantasy" gives me the ick, and the fact that it's used in a serious manner in bookstores is beyond me. in what world do we live? and like, what happened to subplots? what is wrong with fantasy that has romantic subplot? the beauty of fantasy is the worldbuilding?? but lot of these romantasy books are so lazy with it. it would be easier if the authors just accepted that they wanted to write an erotica book with a fantasy setting, because most of these books are not about romance at all, they are all about "spice"
I cracked up when you said, "No, I want her to look like this when he pushes her down the stairs" and the Bullying to Baby Girl category! So much of what you said is spot on. I recently read the first "The Time I Got Drunk..." book thinking it might be slightly different and because it had so much hype, but it was basically the same as everything you just mentioned (except the female protagonist is black). I was actually pissed off after I finished reading that book.
I enjoyed ACOTAR, but can't lie, I too was also a bit baffled by the age differences 😂 Actually there were a LOT of problems with this series, but it's definitely my guilty pleasure hahaha
I like when (if they do become a relationship) the characters get together early and we actually get to see the relationship grow and develop. However, this requires the two characters to actually be engaging as a duo beyond snippy 'I hate you" dialogue, which I find alot of romantasy couples fall flat on.
Great video! My thoughts exactly on ' romantasy ' / romantic fantasy. I used to love reading it but outgrown it because everything is the same. Love the break down you did. Wishing you more subscribers ! 🙂
Clicked on the video randomly on a whim and I’m glad I did. You made your points really well without being an ass about it which is something I appreciate. I’ll admit to not really being a big Romance reader (and finding it harder to read in general these days) but I am a fantasy fan and it does make me a little sad what seems to be taking off. Even if it’s likely just another phase. That said, I am actually going to take the challenge and recommend what might be considered a “Romantasy” series I enjoyed. The Parasol Protectorate by Gail Carriger. Mind you it’s more of a steampunk urban fantasy than a classic high fantasy, still. Tend to enjoy the dry humour and the worldbuilding is at times quite fun! Enjoy quite a few of the characters. Definitely falls into a fair few potholes of the genre (even if it’s older than the SJM books) and has perhaps more stereotyping than one would hope, but it’s overall just a fun time.
I honestly don't think I've ever agreed with every single sentence said in a video like this before today, but you voiced pretty much every single thought I have on this topic. I have nothing to add, other than a big thums up :)
I hate the fact that nowadays popular books are based on tropes. Tropes only work in fanfiction! Especially something like enemies to lovers Also, 2000 years old vampire/demon/dragon always falls in love with a teenager🤪 after he tries to kill/manipulate/abuse her
My favorite romantasy is the Ember in the Ashes series by Sabaa Tahir. I usually avoid first person stories with multiple POVs, but the world building and magic in Ashes are super interesting. There are three main characters and each grow realistically in strength and reasoning over time; plus, their respective romances are all slow burn, and are thankfully not punctuated with any explicit scenes ("spicy").
I'm so glad I found my niche with booktubers that don't just read what's popular. It really helps following POC and queer creators to find actual (high) fantasy books that feature diverse characters and interesting worldbuilding where the romance isn't the only or main part of the story. I don't know how popular they are outside of my bubble, but books like Priory of the Orange Tree by Samanthe Shannon or The Jasmin Throne by Tasha Suri (I've only read the first book, so I can't speak for the whole trilogy) come to mind. Six of Crows is such a special case because imo it's one of the few books that is almost universally beloved, diverse in several ways, and features an actual, non-generic fantasy story with interesting and layered characters while also delivering on the romance sideplot front.
A Marvellous Light by Freya Marske is my fave romantasy! It actually follows the general structure of a romance novel & focuses on the characters/relationship growth while the fantasy plot is secondary
Wheezingggg... when I got to the description of all the "dark haired sculpted jaw" love interests. You'll never convince me that these stories aren't all Kylo/Rey fanfic they wrote when they were 14, and just collectively decided they wanted to make money off it. 😂
This video was funny, entertaining and well put together, I feel like I needed to see this so thank youu🤣 . Also loving the Zuko love in the video, Iroh and him were my absolute favourite characters❤️ imagine if Zuko and Katara were actually end game 😭
I was nervous going into this video because I've been working on writing a fantasy series with romance in it. I laughed all the way through this video because genuinely, I agree with every bit of this. It's actually stuff I feel like romantasy authors should really look at. I tried reading ACOTAR, and the male/female thing set my teeth on edge, and the repetition of phrases as well as there being no real plot was very frustrating. That series alone is why I'm hesitant to pick up other romantasy genre books, but have heavily been reading fantasy when all I used to read is horror.
I hate popular romantasy so much. I'm not a big fan of romance but I think it can be written well and I love fantasy. Unfortunately a lot of the romantasy books focus so much on the romance and have such mediocre writing that I can't handle it. I really wish that books in general became popular in the way they have from booktok because of their quality or stories or ingenuity. But of course we have this overconsumption fast food-esque thing with books now because the world is not fair and I hate it here. 😒
The popularity of fourth wing upsets me so much. It's meant to be rep for my disability, but the rep is so bad it's harmful, suggesting that accepting adaptations is weakness, that it's admirable to push past the limits of your condition and leave yourself in significant pain, an MC with symptoms that are incredibly serious and detrimental when it suits the plot, but non existent when it doesn't... I want it to stop existing, it goes beyond being a bad book into spreading harmful ideals of toxic perseverance.
It is so frustrating to me how shallow romantasy books are. But I think the divide in opinion tends to be people who read more fantasy vs people who read more romance. If the people who enjoy romantasy are happy, that's great. I just hope they will be able broaden their horizons and read actually good fantasy.
this video captures my thoughts in a perfect way...like, i do not want to see two characters fucking each other for 50 pages or even 5 pages for the matter, i just want to see cool knights and warriors fight dragons and ride flying horses in the sky
I think that in order to be able to fully enjoy Romantasy, it needs to be considered as it's own distinct genre. If you consider "Romantasy" as its own genre, rather than fantasy with a sprinkle of romance or romance with a sprinkle of fantasy, then you'll likely be disappointed, as neither of these "typical" readers will have their expectations met by the majority of books in this genre. I also think that Romantasy has drawn up an even bigger issue that we need to think about: the distinction between what's considered "Young Adult" vs "Adult". I really do think that even the term "young adult" is vague. Maybe it needs to be rebranded as "Teen" vs. "Adult" instead, especially since the current distinction between them is essentially whether or not the book contains "spice".
Shout-out to The Invisible Library for being a fun fantasy detective story with strong romance elements while also being slow-burn. I recently finished the whole series and it hits all the reasons why world-building makes a fantasy story functional, so that when the romance develops you can actually enjoy it, while not having to be confused about how the world works.
Booktook talking so much about the enemies-to-lovers part of Cruel Prince made me almost not give it a chance. I was so pleasently suprised when the whole story turns around in the second half and the love interest moves into the background and it becomes more of a political fantasy book. I still don't like Cardan, but the reduction to tropes really misrepresent books and misleads readers in both directions and I hate that. Nearly kept me from discovering an intriguing and high stakes story. It feels like we as readers have no choice to ignore this growing side of book discussions about tropes ..
I've been ride or die for Holly Black since I read Tithe at 10. I mean, it's a bit cringe now (reads Hot Topicky and I'm definitely not 10 anymore) but as a teen/pre-teen, I was blown away by how creepy her fae and worldbuilding were and how dark some of the themes (drug use, teen homelessness, and addiction in Valiant) were on top of the fact that it was 2002 and she prominently featured POC and queer characters getting their own subplots and romance. I mostly loved how her fae were all written with a distinctly queer energy (romance and attraction very much always falling outside heteronormativity in the fae realm, even. featuring a troll love interest). So despite not liking bully romances, I stuck with Folk of Air and ended up really loving it once it hit its stride in book 2 and got away from the bully romance trope (not super my thing). I'm not saying all her books are incredible or flawless by any means but it is really a disservice to lump her in with TikTok algorithm-driven tropefests like Fourth Wing and all the 'A blank of blank and blank's.
this is why I stopped reading YA fantasy years ago when I was around 16-17 and just started reading it again! I was looking at the summaries and was like "why does this sound like the same story over and over again? maybe I should just write my own stories instead" and I've been writing some of my own ideas ever since these all sound like the same guy and I'm going to start reading adult fantasy now
You described the exact problems I have with the "romantasy" genre. I subscribed in hopes that you make some book recommendation videos, especially for fantasy and speculative fiction!
Realizing how books are slowly getting broken down into marketing tropes for is hard for me as a writer because there are a lot of times where I just feel like that's a spoiler. I get where this comes from, the language of fan fic comfort reading full breaking into the mainstream. But like ... what if I want to write a story where there is an element of uncertainty about where the hero's love life is supposed to go, but we've tagged it "second chance romance" so now everyone knows they'll get back with their ex.
I dont mind romantasy existing but it irritates me to no end when i try to find high fantasy books and what im met with is 700 "a thing of x and y" books. same with booktok describing them as great fantasy novels and people asking "is there spice" under ever book rec
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Enemies to lovers went from being about two people who fall in love with each other despite their hatred and differences to an irritating, annoying privileged man forcing himself on a woman.
@@DarwinRoger893 very well put!
@@theatomicanniethank you, I'm so glad people understand my frustrations with how tropes are being written. Last week I saw someone call a book enemies to lovers between a victim of kidnapping and the kidnapper. Like that is not enemies to lovers. AT ALL
@@DarwinRoger893 oh god… 🫠
@@DarwinRoger893 that is stockholm Syndrom
💯.
It’s insane how many talented authors get buried in the fantasy sections at stores now.
Btw this was amazing just subscribed. I don’t think I have the bravery to make a video on this subject yet but I’ll inch toward it soon. This was awesome!
hi! could you recommend author/novels that are unlike most of the mainstream ones we see nowadays? thank you!
@@londonsoul9424 hey! I will just out right recommend my favorite book Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. It's unlike anything out there. The less you know the better!
Anything by Robbin Hobb as well. The Farseer and Liveship Traders trilogies are amazing.
@londonsoul9424 ... so I'm gonna throw Caithlin Rozakis' "Dreadful" out there. One of the few new fantasy books that pleasantly surprised me! Good if you like self-deprecating humor and books that buck tropes in odd ways. Not an epic, but it was fun.
I think the two main problems here are:
1. Marketing. This is the big one. There's nothing wrong with a book being mostly romance and not much else (there's a whole genre for that in fact!) but these kinds of books shouldn't be recommended to people who are mostly in it for the fantasy element, because the fantasy stuff is usually just set dressing for the romance plot. We need a distinction between 'fantasy with a romantic subplot' and 'romance in a fantasy setting'.
2. Writers trying to do two things at once and not really succeeding at either. I think a lot of the authors you mentioned really just want to write a steamy romance with elves or fairies or werewolves or whatever, but because they're writing in the romantasy genre, they feel obligated to include more plot/worldbuilding that they just don't care that much about. If they just embraced the fact that they didn't want to write a fantasy story, but a love story in a fantasy setting, they could concentrate entirely on the romance and (hopefully!) develop it a little better.
Exactlyyyy 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Exactly. If you want to write something “steamy” just embrace the fact that you are writing literal porn and nothing of substance. Don’t pretend you are writing anything remotely close to true fantasy and stop besmirching the genre. It’s like trashy isekai ruining the reputation of the whole genre and turning people off of it.
If you want to write fantasy, put some damn work into it, into the worldbuilding, the themes, the characters. Don’t half-ass it. Go all out. Put your most creative, innovative ideas on the table. Write something that calls to people, that challenges their thinking and makes them think. Don’t just write smut because you want to appeal to horny people and get off. Write something compelling. If you put characters you are attracted to in that story, that’s fine, but at its core, I should be able to find some semblance of meaning in it.
this is called paranormal romance and people forgot this genre has existed for decades - romantasy is just the rebrand trying to trick fantasy lovers into thinking it's a fantasy book with smut instead of, like pnr, a smutty book with fantasy elements, possessive men, and special fmcs who are supposed to be self-inserts
fantasy books where the fmc is a bland template for self-insert just aren't fantasy books, IMO; i want complex characters, quests, stakes, and action in a fantasy world. if i want to read smut, i know i shouldn't be expecting anything complex at all. Romantasy doesn't mix these two genres well in a way where both are equally compelling - one of them almost forcibly outshines the other, and it's never the fantasy genre
@SingingWithMyself-Frozen A very, very good point. Decent drama/romance can absolutely stand on its own. There's real skill in bringing tension to a story that is solely character focused, like romance. Throwing in fantasy elements like political intrigue, mystery, adventure... I mean, you can tell when an author doesn't actually care about those things, and they're just there for flavor. They don't add anything when written like that, they're just adding to the word count.
the root of the problems is always the higher-ups💔💔
The greatest difference imo between Zuko turning good and becoming a friend and these romantasy books is that his change started within himself and his personal world. It wasn’t because he necessarily liked Aang or any of the gang but because he was changing himself. He saw injustice in his own world and learned to stand up for his own beliefs. I mean he even betrayed his uncle but his love for his uncle and eventually himself was what moved him. The romantasy men change for the girl and it’s so shallow
They don't change for the girl, imo. They change for this fucked up, warped, pedestal-placing IDEA of the girl. This is why romantasy often falls flat for me. It can be a page turner in the moment if you want an escape, but I won't come back to it or remember it 6 months down the line because the characters never actually get to know one another. It is romantasy and usually they're The Chosen One or Royalty or something so basic chores will never be involved, but they've never had to reconcile their differences because of work stress, the sink is full, and the laundry hasn't been done for a week, you know? Maybe I want something too domestic and realistic than the romance world wants to offer, or maybe women and femmes don't want to be reminded of how often men disappoint them and relegate them to sexist responsibilities in the real world, but there is a glaring lack of character understanding with evidence in the text that makes the love so unbelievable and shallow.
I feel like romantasy would be more bearable for me personally if the love interest was actually swoon-worthy. Like… maybe someone who is compassionate, or likes surprising you with breakfast in the morning, or sings while folding laundry, or gets emotional over puppies, or SOME amount of emotional intelligence.
Or if we want dark romance, imagine a partner who will swing a sword FOR you, not AT you. Someone who tears apart your enemies if you’ll only give the word. Someone who is dark and terrifying but will always value their partner’s consent.
There are a lot of different ways for a romantic partner to be sexy, but acting like a douchebag is, IMHO, not one of them.
That sounds like a good many traditional male fantasy heroes (the Knights of the Round Table and their Ladies comes to mind). There's a push of the last 10-20 years to break all tradition and avoid all (traditional) tropes for the sake of being "new" and "unique", but there is a reason that certain themes hold up so much longer and are valued so much more than others.
So I agree with you.
Honestly? Even as someone who likes creepy, morally questionable love interests who behave questionably ~towards their lover~, I agree. The nature of the callousness these male love interests always seem to have from what I've witnessed from the outside isn't even appealing in a fictional context to me as someone who likes that kind of stuff! It's just. . . Too realistic? The creepy behavior feels like actual violence, which is not appealing, it feels like if someone wrote a gritty, painful novel about the horrors of war, but tried to act like it was all 'cool and admirable' at the same time, as if they were writing a scrubbed, fantastical version of a war, not depicting a realistically horrible event. It feels tonally dissonant and upsetting, not like a dramatization of a romance with a villain that would be terrible if it played out in real life. It feels like it's terrible as it's playing out on the page, and not even in a 'deliciously diabolical' sort of way. If the love interest is going to be a creep, and it's a fantasy book, and you want to make it exciting, why not write it in an unrealistic way? Why not go full Phantom of the Opera or tragic, obsessed vampiric lover like Carmilla? Why not commit to the tender passion, the soul-crushing dedication and reverent worship, the breathless, wide-eyed adoration, the fixation that leads to extreme lengths being taken, the purple prose of it all, ~the romance~? All these trashy men act like they think the lead is less than dirt and treat them accordingly, and that's just. . . Depressing. The satisfying bit about the darkness, to me, is it's like an almost cartoonish representation of what I guess could be called 'cuteness aggression'? A very intense portrayal of somebody loving their person so much, they just have to squeeze them. Whereas in these books, it really looks like it's more like the men are disinterested or mildly disgusted. They're swatting flies, exerting control over something beneath them that serves a purpose as a tool for something in their life, not going 'Oh my Gods, I love and cherish and need this person so much I'm going to explode if I don't hug them so hard they pop. I must put them in a nice little box and never let them leave so I can always be around them and nothing else can ever hurt them, because if something ever hurt them, {manic chuckling} I'd rip the entire world to shreds and then float around in the void for the rest of eternity in a catatonic state!'.
In short: They can't even romanticize their atrocities correctly!
Heheh, i have an idea 🤭 time to pray i don't...give up, on my idea
@@TheSillyGuyaxelotl world domination?
@@zatchbell5678 hmm, have considered it, but i think i'd rather write silly things with silly guys
A friend of mine ranted about this whole thing the other day and on the point of characters feeling immediate bodily attraction to each other despite hating each other she said something along the lines of: "they're falling in _lust_ with each other and the girlies are telling me that's love and leave it at that throughout the rest of their 500 page books? Respect my time _and_ your own characters enough to either build a better romance or let them stay hating each other with f*cking every now and then"
And she was so right about that honestly
I'd be more interested in this genre if it was Fantasy with hints of romance rather than romance books that read as though the author included fantasy elements so they could conveniently make these characters do whatever the author wanted them to do. There's very little world building, everything that happens is so the characters can win some kind of battle (with very little fight) or to get down to the sexy business. I like that there are people who find joy in them, but I'd be too pissed off reading about possessive hot rich kings who are 500 years old.
I really liked "Emily Wilde's Encyclopedia of Faeries" because it was a fantasy with a romance sub plot. Even though you still have the typical "you're so annoying" dynamic between the two characters. I did find it quite funny tho.
What makes me seething is this psyop about "You dislike it because or the romance with a female MC! You dislike it because it's new to you!".
My fucking God the RAGE.
Literally the one most spammed "modern classic fantasy novel that's not coming from Tolkien" book has a female MC with the coolest magic power that kills the Evil Emperor and falls in love with the noble dude.
I am talking about Mistborn, ofc.
Vin is fits almost all basic attributes of what these girls and women say they want, but she actually has a character, suffers and doesn't always win and her love interest is like a normal human being with his own agency and ideas.
Mistborn is peak "romance subplot into actual fantasy plot" and the second book focuses on it even more. Hell, there is a troubled girl with superpowers wondering what man she should care about while her city is under siege.
Bitch I have been into this stuff since the middle 00s, your magical heroine ain't nothing new to me.
The difference is that Vin was a character, these "heroines" are self-insert for your erotica
You’d like Mercedes Lackey or Lois McMasterson Bujold possibly
@@lorenzomeulli750I just finished the Mistborn trilogy, and my gf got me to start reading acotar and it’s truly a WORLD of difference
Howl moving castle! Its really good the characters are so funny
I know you kind of touched on the male love interests being tanned but as someone who is male, PoC, and a reader I find it more problematic that these yt authors are making the love interest ambitiously brown for the sake of diversity, for that checklist. And when they say that "Yes, this [insert Romantasy Male Love Interest] is PoC" not only do they make him toxic as hell, they also add this whole problematic aspects of slavery allusions.
@@curtisdavenport2308 a very good point!
Good point, but keep in mind that tanned doesn't mean PoC. A white man can be tanned.
And there is a culture in the west of thinking people look better when tanned than when pale.
@@PlaceholderName-b4d that's part of the problem. These characters are like Schrodinger's POC. If people really praise them, then the author can go "Yeah, they're not white!" If people hate the character, they can retreat and say "Oh, they're just a white person with a tan."
It’s jsut white women trying to not seem like all they write about is other white people 😂
when i see people only having sjm books in their bookshelves I get sceptical…
Right like where’s the drama, the diversity, the FUN!! There are so many unhinged fantasy books with romance in them, so why maas 😭
I immediately lose all respect for them when they unironically love her books💀
FR
FOR REALLL
The fact that I picked up book 1 of Throne of Glass rn (never read anything by Maas, that's my first time) well, this will be interesting
I'm so moving on to Robin Hobb after that book, go on a little therapy, if you will (what's that blue dragon that John Howe drew WHO IS THAT)
I'm just mad that my closest Barnes and Noble has a fantasy section that is literally half Maas books
try a local bookstore
The horror section basically being the Steven King section: “Finally a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary!”
If romantasy was sold as a subgenre of romance FIRST i wouldn't have as much of an issue with it. Romance books, depending on their variety, can include very strange, implausible, imbalanced relationships as well as very fluffy surface level sugar and vanilla stuff. But FANTASY and speculative fiction at large has always been about exploring an idea and the sense of awe, and exploring new worlds and political adventure plots. Im so tiredddd.
That subgenre exists and it's called paranormal romance. Honestly, the 'romantasy' branding reminds me of Nicholas Sparks going on about how he doesn't write 'romance', he writes 'novels that happen to be about romance'. Like - no, all y'all are writing romance novels, stop being weirdly elitist about it.
WTF is romantasy? It’s either a romance novel set in a fantasy world, or Fantasy Romance or it’s a fantasy novel with a romantic SUB PLOT. Are we just making up a new genre name because we don’t like fantasy romance? FYI, if the plot is driven by a romantic relationship, then it’s a romance. If the plot is driven by adventure, or discovery or good vs evil etc and there is a romantic sub plot, then it’s a fantasy novel with a romantic subplot. This sounds like YA fantasy romance. Oh look, we already have words to describe this. 😂
This video was like a damn therapy session. 💀💀💀 I feel like a weight was lifted off my shoulders bc all of my pet peeves w romantasy was touched on lmaoooooo
@@arizonaphied5427 trust me, it was also a therapy season for me to make it ✊🏼
this
SAME
same
Same 😅 esp the bit about “men written by women writing romantasy” lol
This is giving me the idea to write a parody romantasy series.
That sounds great!
Love your ideaaa!!
I had the same idea but writing a parody of the isekai genre aftre watching the anime "Konosuba". Then I realized I could make my characters go through infinite pain and suffering in a dark fantasy setting
If you like reading that you should check out Liz Shipton, she writes romance parodies and they're so so funny
In the same vein, Fourth Wing was so aggravating I finally figured out a semi-original dragonriders setting (let's be really, they're all just derivatives of Anne McCaffrey) and I'm writing it out of pure spite.
I started reading ACOTAR when I was exhausted and depressed and cannot be bothered to use my brain. It was fine as long as I do not question any plot points or character motivations. They are trash and majority of the people reading them know it. I am concerned about the actual young adults who read these solely however. Then again there is a positive about this genre. When I was reading classics and books with substance in them I was convinced I was never going to be a writer. This genre make me believe I can be a writer. Not a good one but maybe a popular one.
I definitely see the appeal of these books as well and feel like its always a win to get people into reading! But I am also a big advocate for diversifying ones reading taste. They won‘t ever know what truly good writing feels like 😬
From what I have seen a lot a looooooooot of the readers of acotar series think it is a masterpiece and sjms other series too
lol this is the same reason i listen to certain pop music from time to time, it makes me feel better about my songs locked away in my notes app ☠️ but i feel this honestly. i used to write fan fiction and i got so good at mimicking a certain author’s writing style that after a few years without reading the books things will pop into my head and i genuinely can’t remember if i wrote it or if it was canon 😭😭😭 it was a YA romantasy series but i feel like the fantasy aspects were much stronger than the romance, it took the initial love interests 7 books to get together… and maybe it was the tall dark haired guy trope but she doesn’t even end up with him bc when he starts being an asshole she dumps him. also there’s absolutely no spicy scenes or feelings bc it’s written for like adolescents. the friendships are just as compelling as the romantic relationships. the villains are interesting to read and don’t screw the main characters (also thank god because the 1200 year old x 17 year old trope is GROSS) and in this series the ancient people that look young are written so you can tell they’re older and any age gap romance would be weird AF. i honestly feel as though this series is more mature than most YA romantasy now for the reasons listed.
I think it’s a bit condescending to condemn a whole subgenre simply because it’s not for you. Also while I did notice inconsistencies here and there, I strongly disagree that the ACOTAR series is trash. There are plenty of “pure” fantasy series out there with bigger issues than that one. It also sounds like you only read the first one which is probably the weakest, but on the other hand that’s been the case for many, many series I have read. I’m not going to sit here and defend every romantasy out there (*cough* Lightlark *cough*). I just find your point of view disagreeable.
i used to like the ACOTAR series...when i was a teen and didnt read any better (plus didnt rly have that much of a critical perspective on the stuff i read in general since i inhaled books of all kinds lol)
it took me about a year of reading more and better stuff to realise how bad it is 😂 at least i'd like to hope that not every ya romantasy reader case is hopeless hahah
(also agreed that these book do heal ones impostor syndrome regarding writing 😂)
I'm a big fantasy fan and can honestly tell you that I don't enjoy most Romantasy books, they fail at the fantasy and they fail at the good romance building. But someone commented about how they don't think smut counts as reading and I just want to say reading is reading, let's not punch down and yuck others yums.
@@krishnahemminger thank you for pointing that out! You‘re right. The term ‚reading‘ should not be gatekept.
I don't like smut content.
@@vaderkurt7848no one is telling you to like it . The original commentor was saying this same thing of letting people have their own thoughts without going out of the way to constantly make it a point
If you're talking about @theactingfantasy's comment " I’m of the opinion that a person who truly cannot read a book without spice doesn’t like reading, they enjoy using books to consume pornography. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I don’t think they’re readers"
^that is not a blanket damnation of smut as non-reading. That context is important.
Some yums should be yucked. Some people have yums that should put them on a law enforcement watch list.
Rhysand after inventing feminism: *Massive stonks*
Romantasy is like the times when all my favorite tv shows were being ruined by unnecessary shipping culture, but now with books this happens from the very start and also there's sex in it
As a child I stopped reading the majority of YA because a lot of authors think teenagers are stupid and add dramatic backstories (dead parents, abuse etc) for shock factor without exploring them and then add shoehorned, badly paced romance to keep people reading. So when these things started popping up in the FANTASY books I was reading I was so pissed ngl 😭
And another thing is that, at least for me, I read for escapism. whether it’s high fantasy or even if it’s smth like Maya Angelou, where the escapism aspect is that ‘she went through so much yet still built a good life for herself and her community. Maybe life isn’t so hopeless’. And personally I don’t want a romantic relationship, so to see these books of PURE escapism having bad hetero romances in them felt like ‘you can imagine a world with dragons, where there are wizards, but falling in love with a man is inevitable’ which idk just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. And often these books will make their mcs girl bosses and feminists when there is nothing feminist about their books at all. Like young cis white mc falls in love with a dark, (but still white- maybe Slavic for some spice) older man and they kill people together while somehow always complying with traditional gender roles 😍and she never has to assert herself because he just knows!! He never even asks for consent😍 if that’s what you want in a book that’s fine, but for them to portray themselves as progressive when they’re not is a bit annoying.
As a side note, oh my GOD it’s just occurred to me that the eastern European coded male love interests almost always fit into stereotypes 😍😍 Привет детка, меня зовут dark ‘eastern’ dominant aggressive masculine evil from-an-ultra-patriarchal-culture/country sexualised мужчина. Anyway it’s hella weird that these authors include no explicit poc as major characters. (Only to then make a white character they can racialise when and where they want so they can pretend they did)
“A lot of authors think teenagers are stupid”, well… I mean… are they wrong?
@@azlanadil3646 Teenagers are stupid, yes, but the extent that these people think they are is exaggerated to a comical degree.
@@azlanadil3646 Teens aren’t as smart or experienced as most adults, but YA/Teen media seems to think they are all the same flavor of horny moron.
I skipped this demographic and went straight to adult when I was younger for a reason, insanely frustrating and un-relatable!
Men don’t have to be horrible, but the way they’re written in these kinds of books don’t really help the fear. I think it’s partially a sort of sexualized anxiety spiral: “even if a guy like this takes an interest in me, I can still come out on top by making him fall madly in love with me. And then he’s rich, so I’ll be a princess!’
Honestly, even the majority of real, historical kings and princes were not such… these characters are not real people, let’s just say that. They’re half fetish, half phobia.
"No, I want her to look like *this* when he pushes her down the stairs!" sent me, thank you.
Also, my biggest disappointment in A Court of Thorns and Roses was that the MC sleeps with a fantastical faerie WHO IS A SHAPE-SHIFTER but they have...very normal, vanilla sex. Like...this is a fantasy world and you won't even commit to the bit?!
You have your priorities straight! I like that. Sarah j Maas is a coward, it seems like she only writes vanilla sex with bdsm undertones.
i firmly believe that romantasy is a subgenre of romance, not of fantasy. the main plot is the romance, the writing style tends to resemble the average romance more than fantasy, it's most common flaws tend to be the same as romance's most common flaws (ex: the plot and world and characters outside of the main couple tend to be. lackluster. which is in my opinion just an extension of how one of the most common stumbles for a romance author is the plot outside of the main couple being incredibly contrived and flimsy). like, i think my annoyance with romantasy would go down at least *a little bit* if it were shelved with romance rather than sjm taking up almost an entire bookcase in the fantasy section, and if people stopped putting it in their "fantasy" recommendation lists. it's romance with a heavy fantasy element rather than fantasy with a heavy romance element.
and some romantasy fans have tried to say that people who think romantasy isn't fantasy just have internalized misogyny and don't think books written by women can be categorized as fantasy. which (1) self report lmao. why do you think that something being romance makes it lesser? (2) i've read plenty of fantasy written by women, plenty of fantasy with a heavy romance element, and plenty of fantasy with a heavy romance element written by women that i would NOT characterize as romantasy. and i also don't think romantasy is just "any fantasy book i don't like". no, i don't like basically any romantasy book, but there are again plenty of bad fantasy books written by women with a heavy romance plot that i wouldn't consider romantasy, just shitty fantasy.
this is why i think people who really like fantasy but not romance (such as myself) tend to dislike romantasy books while people who really like romance but not fantasy or especially people who really like both tend to enjoy them. because they're not fantasy, they're romance, so if you don't really enjoy romance you're probably not going to like them.
I strongly believe that the spicy booktok readers just never had a fanfiction phase cause that's all this kind of writing is
For real, so many romantasy is 2 hot people who hate each other for seemingly no reason then bang because they made it to that page-count, with 0 chemistry. I got so annoyed i took the time to sit and write one i would actually like -- just 1 book, not a series, where the characters learn to communicate and understand each other's needs. The last 1/3 of it is literally the 2 of them just trying to be a good couple in a healthy and respectful relationship.
couldn't find it on the shelf, so wrote it myself 😅
probably won't get a huge readership, but at least i have it to go back to and read
anyway, love the video 💟 good to know i'm not alone in this sort of mindset
Id read this!!!
I'd read that
I would read it too!
As a young adult author, I find it really encouraging to watch videos discussing writing tropes and pet peeves. It’s reassuring to know that my approach to writing is on the right track.
For instance, in my current book that I'm writing, I explore the enemy-to-lovers trope. The characters start off with a lot of animosity due to valid reasons and family influences, but as they spend time together, they gradually come to understand and appreciate each other. I focus on making sure that their flaws and positive traits are portrayed authentically, without glamorizing the negative aspects. It’s a journey for the main character, starting from being uncomfortable around the other person, to developing a friendship, and eventually falling in love.
As someone currently writing a more lighthearted romantasy novel with no intended smut (Maaaybe a fade-to-black scene but that would be it), no actual love triangle, an MMC who’s very much NOT a brooding asshole by any sense and who gets along pretty much immediately with the shy FMC who enjoys gardening and reading, videos like this make me half worry it won’t get picked up at all because that’s apparently the exact opposite of what readers want and half hopeful that people are tired enough of the same thing that it’ll at least have a shot at being published. >_>
I would read your book. I hate love triangles bc they are really just a girls choosing between two disgusting guys or vice verse.
I would read your book!
"The Savior's Book Cafe in Another World" was a cute and cozy read and similar to what you're describing. The only thing I wished from that series was that there was a tiny bit more conflict and the MC was forced to go out and explore the world a bit more. There is an audience for it though, we're here!
This video hits so many good points! It makes me want to write romantasy books that defy the tropes. For example, I had an idea for a story about a wise old prophetess who believes her granddaughter is destined to be the chosen one, and marry the king of the fae and bring magic back into the human realm. But when the fae king comes to collect his bride, he chooses the grandma instead of the granddaughter, because he wants someone wise and kind to rule by his side. The grandma then has to prepare herself for being a queen and reconcile her relationship with her granddaughter, who is upset at her destiny being stolen.
I WANT TO READ THIS
Lmao that’s awesome. I’ve been watching vampire diaries and have been saying that I want to see the show where vampires fall in love with 40 year old divorcees. Wouldn’t a 200 year old person have more in common with someone who has figured themself out, been in love, faced adversity, and taken the time to mature? There is no reason some immortal being would want to be with a teenager unless they are predatory. Faeries or vampires, it doesn’t matter.
This is very much paranormal romance, with an emphasis on the romance, and not a huge amount of exploration into the psychology, BUT - Lynsay Sands has a vampire romance series where a few of the heroines end up being elderly women who are the 'fated mates', and I've always found that trope subversion to be delightful.
Also - I would read the hell out of that story you pitched, so if the Muse cooperates, please do write it.
@@chikzdigmohawkz Thanks for the recommendation and the vote of confidence!
This is exactly why i like middle grade fantasy a lot more lol. It has less focus on romance, more focus on characters, platonic relationships and world building. they are also unafraid to be bold in their premises, unlike a lot of romantasy which tends to stick to the same few types of fantasy worlds and magic systems. great vid tho!!
same I really like amari and the seven night brothers and waiting to get the second book
The characters are supposed to be very not skin deep if they follow their life experience, but are always so shallow and obsessed with looks its just off putting. No progress just being for the sake of being. Its not believable. Also should be 500+ years old but think and act like 16. So irritating
Romantasy can be good. It's just that for most, the "tasy" aspect is so useless. The fantasy is almost always lacklustre...the plot nonexistent, characters unlikeable
@@dannygoldson603 do you have some recommendations for good romantasy? ☺️
@@theatomicannie 😅😅 now I'm nervous, you might have heard of these...
Emily Wilde's encyclopedia of faeries; uses footnotes which may not be for everyone, no spice
Half a soul; cozy, low fantasy. I personally enjoyed the romance. No spice
Someone you can build a nest in: not sure if it can be classed romantasy. Queer/Sapphic. There's gore
Reign and ruin; I haven't read this yet
@@dannygoldson603 i have that book on my reading list already! I‘m gonna give it a go! It sounds like something I could like.
@@theatomicanniekeeper of the lost cities. definitely targeted to a younger audience, no sex, slow burn but actually slow burn. no romantic relationships form for at least 5 (long) books and that’s all i will say about that. it’s more of a fantasy series that happens to have a love triangle in it but it does not drive the plot. world building is VERY complex. series is still not finished, i highly recommend it. i haven’t read it in years because im too busy now but its definitely one of my favorites.
@@imawakemymindisalive13 I wouldn't say it's romantacy, but it is straddling the middle grade and young adult divide instead of being young adult or new adult.
Funny how They don’t even excel in the thing they get marketised for. Best example of enemies to lover is Jaime and breinne started
“wench?”
“You will call me Brienne. Not wench.”
“My name is Ser Jaime. Not kingslayer
To
“Brienne caught him before he could fall. Her arm was all gooseflesh, clammy and chilled, but she was strong, and gentler than he would have thought. Gentler than Cersei, he thought
To
“We’re taking the wench.”
“Her name is Brienne,” Jaime said. “Brienne, the maid of Tarth. You are still maiden, I hope?”
Her broad homely face turned red. “Yes.”
“Oh, good,” Jaime said. “I only rescue maidens.”
And that’s the tip of the iceberg of the dynamic between Jaime and breinne
It's kinda weird to me that so many of these YA romantasy books with "enemies to lovers" are basicly the "Oh he pulls your hair because he likes you!" thing girls get told when a boy is bullying them, but dilled up to 1000
Yeah. And they neglect to mention that if he’s being mean because he likes you, he’s being a little s**t.
“It’s like everyone playing Barbie’s” I think the ones that are writing these books wanted to publish books about what they played when they were a kid 😂
As a late millennial woman who began reading with classic 90s/2000s fantasy authors (many of them women, like Diana Wynne Jones & Sherwood Smith), then went through my teens during the 2010s YA boom, I feel a lot of the frustration you describe at seeing patch-work tropes held together by soulless bad writing & barebones worldbuilding-precisely because there’s so many stellar examples of those same tropes being done well that I remember from before BookTok-driven publishing. It’s absolutely galling to think of all the money & resources going into churning out hardback, illustrated special editions of all these books that I seriously doubt people, even folks who enjoyed them, will want to re-read.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but a slight correction is necesary. Cruel Prince is not romantasy it's a political ya fantasy. And the enemies to lovers trope is only truly explored in the second and third book in the series. The entire trilogy had fallen to tiktok's false advertising when people started to recomend it as a romantasy when it's very much not that type of genre.
@@juliannakreft thanks for your comment. It is categorised as Fantasy Romance on goodreads at least and a lot of people also advertise it as such. But I wholeheartedly agree that tiktok markets things weirdly. Also, I see that the enemies to lovers aspect is explored further in the second book but with the constant attraction toward Cardan that jude is internally expressing and them kissing in the latter half of the book i feel like the boxes are checked for a YA romance already.
@@theatomicannie Goodreads categories are often wrong. The author herself wrote it only as YA fantasy not a romantasy despite what marketing say. Sorry if I'm coming out too strong I just saw a lot of people being dissapointed and rating it low because they expected it to be a romantasy when it was never written to be one in the first place. It's only confuses new readers.
Ah i can see that! But maybe some peoples expectations for what romantasy is might also be at fault. Maybe they want a very specific thing and the characters kissing in the first book is not enough for them? But I don‘t know. It is truly tricky with this book. And good marketing really is not a given these days! 🫠
Yes the Folk of the Air serie is not a romantasy. It has a romantic subplot but it stays a subplot. It is a political fantasy.
Even if it isn’t categorized as such I think Cruel Prince feels like YA Romantasy but maybe its just me 🫣
My avoidance of this genre started way back with Twilight when I began to deep dive the author's personal life. It's actually a really good way to understand why these kinds of books tend to lean towards heteronormativity and little to no BIPOC representation. The rabid smut as cover for convervative ideals is actually quite strong.
Reminds me of that Reductress headline that read something like "How to take a pounding in a God-fearing way"
@@BlackXSunlight - OMG!! 🤣🤣 THAT'S GOLD!!
look if you want diversity write your own. not everything has to be die stuff.to be honest shoehorning die into everything is boring.
@@claudiameier666 Child left behind, spotted
Its also crazy the amount of self inserts there are. My friend and i used to read the description of YA mcs then google what the author looked like. Some thirty something year old woman is legit fantasizing about an abusive relationship with a 'sexy' stalker then projecting it onto teens. Ick.
I appreciate how you articulated your thoughts. The only one that I've read to completion was The Cruel Prince, and it's not perfect, but I think it definitely deserves points for not being p0*n disguised as fantasy literature and having fae that are incapable of speaking lies (Mas got on my crap list FAST for that one, she basically just made abus1ve elves). Great video!
@@cookiescuentosandquejas5639 thank you! ☺️ thats true! The whole smut chapter in the video was just directed towards New Adult which Cruel Prince doesn’t fall under.
aaaa thank you for perfectly summarizing my thoughts!!! i've felt like the odd one out for a long time for being unimpressed with the endless procession of entitled dark-haired oh-so-handsome clones & their canned "you're *m i n e*, Y/N"-style dialogue.
recent romantasy is the written equivalent of zebra cakes-esque junk food slop & that's fine in moderation but i'm done pretending that it's anything more substantial than that.
also, at the risk of sounding like a "puriteen" or whatever, it kinda makes me uncomfortable how heavily this is pushed to younger & younger readers??? like i remember a librarian recommending SJM to me when i was 13 & my experience wasn't unique; the book club at my niece's school has a young fantasy reader's list & it's full of "spicy" romantasy titles.
Honestly, I loved Acotar, but my main problem with the books was the fact that every single character (except for the villains) were Mary Sue's. Feyre's only flaw was that she couldn't read, Rhys kept some secrets, Cassian could be a bit bitchy, Azriel was a hopeless romantic, Mor had secrets too, and Amren...I don't even think she had any flaws. SJM Only gives flaws to characters that she wants you to hate on, propose. I was so damn shocked when Nesta (one of the most troubled characters) Actually had flaws. In my opinion, if you can't make a good character with flaws than you need to up your writing game.
I did not like any of acotar until Nesta’s book. I love nesta. The rest of the series is so bland, predictable, and full of Mary sues that as soon as SJM sat down and just wrote a gigantic piece of shit character I was immediately roped in. You can ignore all the plot holes because having a character with actual personality and flaws is so incredibly out of left field it’s distracting.
Not to mention ppl dog piled on Tamlin. Like not justifying many of his actions but at the same time it’s like romantasy writers and readers have an aversion to morally grey characters. (Characters who are written with the intention and acknowledged as morally grey, I’m not talking about that Rhys withholding important medical information and autonomy from his wife, then being written like he’s in the right bullshit)
Lucien and Nesta were honestly the best characters
In theory romantasy sounds really fascinating. You could create so many interesting, unique, deep relationships with all the new social dynamics, magic systems, cultures etc. But that is just not done, at least not in the stuff that gets popular.
Haven't read many of them, but also from all I heard I would not like them. Maybe it is just me being bi, but as you said these characters are just so cliche, unattractive and gender existentialist. Big fan of fantasy, and while I don't like mainstream romance, I do like real feeling, original romances. Also love good (!) dystopias, and found the comparison interesting.
I'm so glad that romantacy has come to be recognized as its own subgenre because that makes it easier for me to avoid it when I'm looking for fantasy-focused books.
Strange the Dreamer is sooooo good; I wouldn’t classify it as a romantasy because it’s that much better than all the other books in that genre, but the romance is more than a subplot. Actually it’s like the perfect balance, a beautiful romance with complex, imperfect characters, and a super well developed fantasy world and supporting cast that is the chefs kiss on the story. It came out a few years ago, so maybe that’s why it felt so unique compared to everything recent, but I’ve just never read anything like it and it was amazing. Also everything you said was incredibly validating, I’m so glad I’m not alone lol
Second this! Strange the Dreamer was incredible!
I want the genre to improve because I do think, if written well, a romance can greatly enhance a story and develop its characters. However, it seems like most romantasy authors are only inspired by other romantasy authors, and readers aren't interested in books that don't fit the weirdly specific criteria of such novels. The community has become an ouroboros where it's seemingly impossible for new ideas to flourish. It also feels like a lot of people prefer romantasy because they believe it'll elevate them as readers above those who just read straightforward erotica, which is ironic because there is such an emphasis on "spicy" content in romantasy books.
the further irony is that a lot of erotica will use intimacy as an actual plot vehicle and opportunity to explore relationship dynamics (because intimacy is an important part of most romantic relationships!), as opposed to generic “spice” that can be sprinkled on sometimes for shock value
also yes ouroboros is the perfect term to describe the derivativeness of what is marketed as “romantasy”
I don’t mind romantasy existing, I just can’t stand how it’s being shoved down my throat. It’s harder to find fantasy without romance in it. I found Fourth Wing independent of the hype, and I won’t deny that I had a good time reading it. But honestly, I think that’s because I truly didn’t care about whatever romance violet and xaden had; I was there for the dragons lol. All the sexual tension and stuff went in one ear and out the other, I was reading the non-dragon parts to get to the dragons lol. Iron Flame is definitely worse and the ending is incredibly stupid.
Also, I’m of the opinion that a person who truly cannot read a book without spice doesn’t like reading, they enjoy using books to consume pornography. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I don’t think they’re readers.
I also think that the dragons were the strongest aspect of Fourth Wing. I need to read up on the Iron Flame ending I think. I am too nosy :D especially with the third book coming out soon. I can't wait to see the reviews of what is likely to be a total mess.
@@theatomicannie Xaden turns into a venin to save Violet for some reason, I think she was being threatened by a venin lord or something and xaden turned into one to save her? I don’t fully remember, I just remember hearing it through the audiobook and being like, “that’s… so dumb.” Especially since the reveal of it was cringy and melodramatic.
@@theactingfantasy honestly, it feels like AI was used to finish the book because the author couldn't hit her deadline without it. It just felt so... weird. And Violet's mother changed character so ridiculously fast from how she was described in the first book, it felt so out of place. I also feel like the whole thing with Andara is just a way for Yarros to get herself out of the "plot" with Xaden now by using Andara's ability to go back and change things.
It's kind of a guilty pleasure for me, but there are definitely better books out there.
i got so mad at 4th wing that i didn't finish it. It just felt like dragons were there to justify the mating bond bullshit between Xaden and Violet
It seems a lot of the dragon stuff might have been inspired by the Dragonriders of Pern series down to the telepathic link between riders and their dragons, although to be fair Dragonriders of Pern was like THE early dragon-centered fantasy series, it was very influential.
Eeeyy fellow slow burn enjoyer 🙌
You’re my type of reader; subscribed
the only book on here i'd go to bat for is TCP. on the enemies to lovers section, idk if you simply forgot or if the information was revealed in the sequels, but the reason Cardan and his friends antagonize Jude is because Locke led his friends to believe that he liked her, implying that she's the reason why he and Nicasia broke up (spoiler: he was actually with Taryn, Jude's twin).
the other books deserve to be put in a shredder though (sans Divine Rivals because i actually haven't heard of it).
Same, honestly. Holly Black doesn't deserve to get lumped in with SJM and Yarros and Armentrout. I remember being 10 and picking up Tithe and how honest-to-goodness terrifying her fae worldbuilding was and how fully queer she made it. We got queer and POC characters from Black's YA books in 2002 which is honestly CRAZY and at the time, each felt so rare. TCP wasn't my favorite in the trilogy but I just simply do NOT like bully romances and that fully is what it is (a meaningful but subtle distinction from enemies to lovers). Her latest book also kinda did nothing for me but I still love her for her actually monstrous fae.
I feel so validated by this lmao I hate most of the romantasy tropes. It really feels like a lot of writers and readers are going through their wattpad phase right now and now we have to suffer through these kinds of stories being published and marketed more than ever before. 😮💨
The "mating" thing is insane to me. It's probably my single greatest turn-off. Unless I'm reading about dogs or Australians, I don't want to see that word.
you're real as hell for this :)
i will say that i read a lot of this kind of writing fully with the intention of consuming garbage, so i don't mind blatant smut, so long as the author isn't pretending to be some kind of visionary. that said, while i could write my own novel about all the other things i hated about it, i read the first crescent city book, fully with the knowledge that at least if the writing sucks, there'll be smut, and then i discovered that in this 800-page book, there's no smut until 600 pages in, which should be a crime- how does someone write about nothing for that long (bc all these different, "important" plot points get crammed into the last 200 pages)??? at some point, these writers need to pick a lane
the age gap is so weird!!! like when the 500 years old characters are beefing with Nesta who is like 20.... get help yall
Exactly. They couldn't let the sisters handle their own beef. Couldn't be old and mature enough to just ignore her. Gods
LMFAO fr you wouldn't catch me beefing with a 20 yr old at 30, let alone many CENTURIES tf 😂
I don't know, maybe it's the aroace in me, but I'm always so annoyed when the introduction of a love interested is absolutely drowned out by the author beating you over the head with "they're attractive, ok? They look so gorgeous, you can't even imagine!!" Because 1 - it always makes me dislike them on instinct, 2 - it becomes so obvious that they're not really a character in their own right as much as they are a "love interest" and anything that happens to them will directly tie into their romantic potential and 3 - it's just annoying. I wanna see a love story (esp if it's an enemies to lovers) where the characters come to respect and understand each other before they feel any sort of attraction. Like, yeah, people fall in love in different ways, but also - it's not just pretty people that get to fall in love. I think stories where a characters aren't absolutely drop-dead gorgeous, where they aren't immediately drawn to each other, has so much more potency and authenticity to each other, because then you actually get to see why they come to feel for each other. Not just because they're both hot. Maybe even a character that isn't seen as attractive by the mc at first, until they get to know each other better, and the love interest becomes uniquely beautiful to them. Sorry for the ramble.
as someone who is aroace as well you are SO REAL
How far we've fallen from romanasty like kushiel's dart. Jacqueline carey was too ahead of the time with her sex worker spy in a political web of a sex positive society. Her writing it top tier but because she added kinky sex the early 2000s were not kind. 10/10 recommend
I didn't like it because it seemed predatory to raise kids to be sex workers, it's the same issue I have with raising kids to be child soldiers. But I'm glad you liked it. The first person POV also threw me off, so I lost interest fast.
@@mittag983 those critiques are valid but when I read these as they were being released, I focused more on the religion of love, sex positivity and queer acceptance over the sexually active teens but thats probably because I was one just trying to figure things out. Besides that I've read those two things done far worse in other books that dont get nearly the same push back.
Also the mc uses her power and privilege in later books to push for reforms in those practices
@@mittag983 it IS predatory, but it's also commentary on very real expectations put on many children in real life. Writing a story from a twisted scenario is not automatically to say that it's a good thing.
Personal dislikes are of course a valid reason not to read someone else's fantasy setting, but it's good to recognise the author probably writes for adults for a reason.
@@jasminv8653 Did you try to tell me in a passive aggressive way that I'm not an adult lmao? I'm an adult and I read books with a much more dark subject matter than Kushiel's Dart like Blood Meridian or Lolita. By the way here in Germany the book is marketed YA, which isn't adult at all. To me it was simply dissapointing that this sex positive setting had grooming because a lot of right wing people already act like this would happen in a sex positive society, which only scratches the ice on the surface. There are other reasons I didn't like this book like I said: I don't like first person POV because to me it often feels juvenile which didn't fit this story in my opinion. It's too wide reaching, reading like a diary is not suiting in my opinion.
@@mittag983fwiw I agree with you
i have a friend who really enjoys this type of books and i feel kind of bad when she recommends them to me because i don't want to tell her that i find them pretty boring
Me too. She honestly loves them so much and I just can't tell her that I hate most of them. I've read books she recommended me and I hated but I told her I liked them. We just have very different tastes.
There's this book I pulled out of the shelf by chance at a bookstore that also has a reading area for certain uncovered books.
It's Hexologist by Josiah Bancroft.
The summary is hilarious "The king would like to be baked into a cake" and I just went with it. Sat down and read it. It got a lovely established married couple since the first 20 pages and they both goes on this journey to investigate what has plagued the king to have such delusions.
They joked about their singed carpet. Quote and jokes with eachother while the husband is cooking and the wife is checking the mails if there's anything from the royals.
My one rule about picking up a book for my reading comfort is that it must be written in "Third Person perspective". I get turned off and sour when the book just goes 'I ran to him' instead of 'With no hesitation in her steps, she broke off to his awaiting embrace'
it's so annoying seeing the booktok girlies who read only romance smut doing a "I read nothing but fantasy for a week" videos and its literally the exact same as what they normally read but with magic and weird names.
You know what else sucks? If you tell someone you didn’t like the first book of a romantasy series, they tell you the sequel is better. How about the writer make something that can stand on its own first?? I am not wasting my time on a romance if you’re gonna make them split by the sequel in favor of the rapist!
The best "friends to enemies to friends with huge difference in ideals but still care for each other in the end' is Prof X and Magneto from the X-Men series. Their chemistry and dialogue when both are in a scene together is just fantastic! I got half/way through Fourth Wing before dropping it. What juvenile dog dooky
So, my main issue is less with the genre and its tropes and marketing or whatever and more specifically how people interact with it.
I *despise* the argument "you dislike it because you can't handle the female MC/point of view/whatever and because people costantly shit on the interest of young women".
This is a whole can of worms where a lot of grown ass men in their 30s still live. They can't accept that young girls may like something they don't. But it's besides the topic that enrages me. The point I wanted to talk about is that they try to hide behind this "you dislike it because muh sexism / you are a pick-me".
No buddy, I dislike it because it sucks ass.
There have been countless books before with female characters as the MC that loved someone and had a sexuality.
It's just that your brand of this isn't well written. Just looking at my library I see the Black Magician trilogy, anything with a female MC by Sanderson, I see Le Guin's books as well, by the way. A woman not exclusively writing about young women, think about that!
Your YA/NA fantasy romance ain't anything new darling. It just has more porn into it.
This honestly sums up the entire topic as far as I am concerned.
Many of these are young people or new readers, and it's wrong to shit on them BUT there is a reason why we dislike these things and wish people read more stuff. Damn, I remember whatever I read back then myself, but that's not all I have read in my life.
Fellow Italians will surely remember the craze for Licia Troisi's books which, for the not fellow Italians, was a rather big author back in the 00s for fantasy over here. And I swear to God, looking back at it her books feel like Booktok stuff.
Badass young women MC who somehow also cry endlessly all the fucking time. Terrible worldbuilding. Characters that are there only as props for the MC to either love, be better than them or kill. Magic that's basically a plot device but pretends to have a system.
But even in that, you could still find nuggets of something else. She had some original ideas as far as fantasy concerned for example. Yeah the worldbuilding wouldn't last one small analysis, but at least it wasn't just "medieval fantasy copy of X real country" or "fae magic!".
At least some characters sometimes had stuff to do that wasn't related with the MC existence (ex: in the second book the male love interest goes on his own sidequest as an ambassador to some potential allies in an underwater nation. Yeah, imagine that, he more stuff going on than being horny AND it was something fantastical!).
And I cringe looking back at them, yet I still feel some kind of fondness for them. Because I grew up, I developed my tastes, but ultimately that's where I started caring about fantasy as a genre (and literature in general).
But the fondness is related with that: my experience with it back at the time. As a grown ass adult now, I have been exposed to more stuff (I *looked* for it) and developed a taste of my own. Hell, maybe if I read them again I would enjoy parts of it again, dunno. But God, I am not still reading THAT and only THAT kind of thing.
This is the issue with Romantasy. Sure, the 15yo picking up a fantasy novel for the first time may enjoy something like Lightlark. I understand why they like it (albeit I am not comfortable with how much the entire genre is basically just erotica with a disguise on and it's being sold to young girls).
But after they are 15yo they become 16yo. Then 17yo. At some point they will hit their 20s. And then their 30s.
Will they still onl read the kind of thing that Lightlark or Fourth Wing are? Because that's what it looks like. It has been 4 years since the Covid outbreak and the same fucking pattern of books is spammed endlessly. And the same people pick up the new entry in the Dark Violent Brooding Man Controls My Life But In Fantasy-land genre.
If this is all they are exposed to, if they never receive the *IDEA* that there can be more to fiction... it's just sad to me.
As soon as I seen you refer to romantasy as the "yassification of fantasy" I instantly knew I'd like this video 😆 the reason I hate romantasy so much is because it has so much potential to be fantastic. I love fantasy and a lot of them are lacking in the romance sub-plots and sometimes I do want something that balances the fantasy and romance plots but it's never the case, the romance always overshadows the actual plot (if there even is a plot) and authors are using revolutions as wars as backdrops for the romance/smut which. Just stop (never mind the amountof these books where the smut overshadows even the romance). They're always predictable and over-stuffed with tropes, and the fantasy itself is lacklustre with only surface level world-building, magic systems that never make sense, and the majority of characters are one-dimensional props. Oftentimes even the main characters are cardboard cutouts of tropes (FMC's whose only personality trait is #girlboss and MMC's who are "alphas"). I too could rant for ages about how disappointed I was with this genre because I want to love it.
I'm curious when you say fantasy books are lacking in the romance sub-plots. I mainly read fantasy and probably 80% of what I've read in the genre has at least one romance subplot. And I am not particularly seeking that. Do you mean there is no romance or the romance plots themselves are lacking ?
@@gracie9658 I mean that they are definitely romance books but a lot of times they’re not exactly romantic? They’re just ~spicy~ like the two characters are just horny for each other from page one which is hard for me to classify as romance even though it technically is if that makes sense xD they don’t date/court each other they just banter and make innuendos until they “give in” and it’s hard for me to see that as a romance is all
@@gracie9658 may have actually read your reply wrong rip what I actually meant about fantasy lacking in romantic subplots was regarding like fantasy fantasy not the romantasy sub genre. Like Under the Northern Skies was a great military fantasy trilogy but there’s no romance besides a political marriage (which was done well imo but still) and there are definitely other books like that where the plot is focused (which is good) but any romantic side plots aren’t done well or are very lacking. A lot of fantasy now typically has more romance in it especially YA
@@JesseRowanShawe I see, I feel like YA fantasy has always had romance, usually not great but there nonetheless. It's true though that a lot more fantasy in general has more important romance subplots in it now and it annoys me sometimes.
I actually agree with your first reply, lust and banging is definitely not romance to me lol. It needs to have emotional connection.
@@gracie9658 yeah YA has always been romance heavy I feel but adult fantasy has been a mixed bag until romantasy became really popular. I’d like it more if it tried new things instead of rehashing all the same played out tropes and the same characters just different font or if they put actual effort into the fantasy/plot and wrote a better romance that didn’t rely on spice as much
yeah i agree with you so much, many romantasy books are the same now, shoving random tropes into them, always trying to have enemies to lovers, having the same boring characters, and too much spice or whatevrr. its so hard to find new good books these days, its annoying and sad
This video is so cathartic! I really want to like romantasy as someone who loves both fantasy and romance, but I'm so sick of being disappointed. I really hope the genre can evolve into something better than what it currently is
I haven't watched the video yet but that fma reference is DIABOLICAL.
Yes, Acotar slander!
as someone who reads a lot of gay chinese cultivation romantasy, i found them all to be so much better since the main leads are mostly doting and not toxic, and the archetypes of the main leads are much more diverse. plus the're mostly slow burn, like when the two main guys hold hands in volume 5 it makes you kick your feet and giggle like a school girl, it feels more earned than if they boned on chapter 1
Fourth Wing being rebeca's first fantasy book makes so much sense now
As an Asexual person who like to read and likes fantasy the over saturation of spice in books is really annoying to me . I just want a good fantasy book with friendship and maybe a little bit of romance as a side plot. But that is becoming hard to find.
Try Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings. Fitz and the Fool have this deep, almost spiritual friendship that's borderline romance. But but aware, everything is very, very slow.
I love the editing in this video so much its funny, just the right amount of cuts and memes!!!! Keep it going
thank you so much! 💕 editing these is so much fun as well!
the name "romantasy" gives me the ick, and the fact that it's used in a serious manner in bookstores is beyond me. in what world do we live?
and like, what happened to subplots? what is wrong with fantasy that has romantic subplot? the beauty of fantasy is the worldbuilding?? but lot of these romantasy books are so lazy with it.
it would be easier if the authors just accepted that they wanted to write an erotica book with a fantasy setting, because most of these books are not about romance at all, they are all about "spice"
I cracked up when you said, "No, I want her to look like this when he pushes her down the stairs" and the Bullying to Baby Girl category! So much of what you said is spot on. I recently read the first "The Time I Got Drunk..." book thinking it might be slightly different and because it had so much hype, but it was basically the same as everything you just mentioned (except the female protagonist is black). I was actually pissed off after I finished reading that book.
Teacher stutant trop should only exist in drama, horror, thriller or crime are a evil thing, not a romance.
or should generally be shown in a negative light
I enjoyed ACOTAR, but can't lie, I too was also a bit baffled by the age differences 😂
Actually there were a LOT of problems with this series, but it's definitely my guilty pleasure hahaha
This is such a nice video! Your channel deserves more recognition!
thank you ☺
I like when (if they do become a relationship) the characters get together early and we actually get to see the relationship grow and develop. However, this requires the two characters to actually be engaging as a duo beyond snippy 'I hate you" dialogue, which I find alot of romantasy couples fall flat on.
Great video! My thoughts exactly on ' romantasy ' / romantic fantasy. I used to love reading it but outgrown it because everything is the same. Love the break down you did. Wishing you more subscribers ! 🙂
thank youu for your comment 🥺🥰 happy you liked it!
@@theatomicannie 😊
Maxton Hall was brought up and I literally screamed. Love that series.
Clicked on the video randomly on a whim and I’m glad I did. You made your points really well without being an ass about it which is something I appreciate. I’ll admit to not really being a big Romance reader (and finding it harder to read in general these days) but I am a fantasy fan and it does make me a little sad what seems to be taking off. Even if it’s likely just another phase.
That said, I am actually going to take the challenge and recommend what might be considered a “Romantasy” series I enjoyed. The Parasol Protectorate by Gail Carriger. Mind you it’s more of a steampunk urban fantasy than a classic high fantasy, still. Tend to enjoy the dry humour and the worldbuilding is at times quite fun! Enjoy quite a few of the characters. Definitely falls into a fair few potholes of the genre (even if it’s older than the SJM books) and has perhaps more stereotyping than one would hope, but it’s overall just a fun time.
i have those books. they are good not like this romantasy crap
0:21 as an fma fan, how dare you.
I honestly don't think I've ever agreed with every single sentence said in a video like this before today, but you voiced pretty much every single thought I have on this topic. I have nothing to add, other than a big thums up :)
I hate the fact that nowadays popular books are based on tropes.
Tropes only work in fanfiction! Especially something like enemies to lovers
Also, 2000 years old vampire/demon/dragon always falls in love with a teenager🤪 after he tries to kill/manipulate/abuse her
Right fanfiction need to stay that not actual real works of writing 😂
Yeah books have never had prominent tropes before fanfiction. They are a totally new invention.
My favorite romantasy is the Ember in the Ashes series by Sabaa Tahir. I usually avoid first person stories with multiple POVs, but the world building and magic in Ashes are super interesting. There are three main characters and each grow realistically in strength and reasoning over time; plus, their respective romances are all slow burn, and are thankfully not punctuated with any explicit scenes ("spicy").
I'm so glad I found my niche with booktubers that don't just read what's popular. It really helps following POC and queer creators to find actual (high) fantasy books that feature diverse characters and interesting worldbuilding where the romance isn't the only or main part of the story. I don't know how popular they are outside of my bubble, but books like Priory of the Orange Tree by Samanthe Shannon or The Jasmin Throne by Tasha Suri (I've only read the first book, so I can't speak for the whole trilogy) come to mind. Six of Crows is such a special case because imo it's one of the few books that is almost universally beloved, diverse in several ways, and features an actual, non-generic fantasy story with interesting and layered characters while also delivering on the romance sideplot front.
A Marvellous Light by Freya Marske is my fave romantasy! It actually follows the general structure of a romance novel & focuses on the characters/relationship growth while the fantasy plot is secondary
Wheezingggg... when I got to the description of all the "dark haired sculpted jaw" love interests. You'll never convince me that these stories aren't all Kylo/Rey fanfic they wrote when they were 14, and just collectively decided they wanted to make money off it. 😂
This video was funny, entertaining and well put together, I feel like I needed to see this so thank youu🤣 . Also loving the Zuko love in the video, Iroh and him were my absolute favourite characters❤️ imagine if Zuko and Katara were actually end game 😭
@@Ashleighsbooklist thank youu! 🫶🏼 I will never shut up about Zuko 🫡🥰 I think Zutara could have worked well ✊🏼
@@theatomicannie zuko is top tieeer. I absolutely agree 🫶
I was nervous going into this video because I've been working on writing a fantasy series with romance in it. I laughed all the way through this video because genuinely, I agree with every bit of this. It's actually stuff I feel like romantasy authors should really look at. I tried reading ACOTAR, and the male/female thing set my teeth on edge, and the repetition of phrases as well as there being no real plot was very frustrating. That series alone is why I'm hesitant to pick up other romantasy genre books, but have heavily been reading fantasy when all I used to read is horror.
I hate popular romantasy so much. I'm not a big fan of romance but I think it can be written well and I love fantasy. Unfortunately a lot of the romantasy books focus so much on the romance and have such mediocre writing that I can't handle it. I really wish that books in general became popular in the way they have from booktok because of their quality or stories or ingenuity. But of course we have this overconsumption fast food-esque thing with books now because the world is not fair and I hate it here. 😒
The popularity of fourth wing upsets me so much. It's meant to be rep for my disability, but the rep is so bad it's harmful, suggesting that accepting adaptations is weakness, that it's admirable to push past the limits of your condition and leave yourself in significant pain, an MC with symptoms that are incredibly serious and detrimental when it suits the plot, but non existent when it doesn't... I want it to stop existing, it goes beyond being a bad book into spreading harmful ideals of toxic perseverance.
It is so frustrating to me how shallow romantasy books are. But I think the divide in opinion tends to be people who read more fantasy vs people who read more romance. If the people who enjoy romantasy are happy, that's great. I just hope they will be able broaden their horizons and read actually good fantasy.
I'm grateful for some clarity. I haven't been able to get far with these books.
this video captures my thoughts in a perfect way...like, i do not want to see two characters fucking each other for 50 pages or even 5 pages for the matter, i just want to see cool knights and warriors fight dragons and ride flying horses in the sky
I think that in order to be able to fully enjoy Romantasy, it needs to be considered as it's own distinct genre. If you consider "Romantasy" as its own genre, rather than fantasy with a sprinkle of romance or romance with a sprinkle of fantasy, then you'll likely be disappointed, as neither of these "typical" readers will have their expectations met by the majority of books in this genre.
I also think that Romantasy has drawn up an even bigger issue that we need to think about: the distinction between what's considered "Young Adult" vs "Adult". I really do think that even the term "young adult" is vague. Maybe it needs to be rebranded as "Teen" vs. "Adult" instead, especially since the current distinction between them is essentially whether or not the book contains "spice".
Thank you so much for this, romantasy's getting on top of the market and my nerves so I'm glad to see other people agree😭
Shout-out to The Invisible Library for being a fun fantasy detective story with strong romance elements while also being slow-burn. I recently finished the whole series and it hits all the reasons why world-building makes a fantasy story functional, so that when the romance develops you can actually enjoy it, while not having to be confused about how the world works.
Taking notes because I have a enemies to lovers sub plot ( my story isn't a romantasy btw) and I hope to do it justice.
Booktook talking so much about the enemies-to-lovers part of Cruel Prince made me almost not give it a chance. I was so pleasently suprised when the whole story turns around in the second half and the love interest moves into the background and it becomes more of a political fantasy book. I still don't like Cardan, but the reduction to tropes really misrepresent books and misleads readers in both directions and I hate that. Nearly kept me from discovering an intriguing and high stakes story. It feels like we as readers have no choice to ignore this growing side of book discussions about tropes ..
I've been ride or die for Holly Black since I read Tithe at 10. I mean, it's a bit cringe now (reads Hot Topicky and I'm definitely not 10 anymore) but as a teen/pre-teen, I was blown away by how creepy her fae and worldbuilding were and how dark some of the themes (drug use, teen homelessness, and addiction in Valiant) were on top of the fact that it was 2002 and she prominently featured POC and queer characters getting their own subplots and romance. I mostly loved how her fae were all written with a distinctly queer energy (romance and attraction very much always falling outside heteronormativity in the fae realm, even. featuring a troll love interest).
So despite not liking bully romances, I stuck with Folk of Air and ended up really loving it once it hit its stride in book 2 and got away from the bully romance trope (not super my thing). I'm not saying all her books are incredible or flawless by any means but it is really a disservice to lump her in with TikTok algorithm-driven tropefests like Fourth Wing and all the 'A blank of blank and blank's.
calling the cruel prince a romantasy is a crime i'm sorry 😭
I plead guilty then 😌
this is why I stopped reading YA fantasy years ago when I was around 16-17 and just started reading it again! I was looking at the summaries and was like "why does this sound like the same story over and over again? maybe I should just write my own stories instead" and I've been writing some of my own ideas ever since
these all sound like the same guy and I'm going to start reading adult fantasy now
You described the exact problems I have with the "romantasy" genre. I subscribed in hopes that you make some book recommendation videos, especially for fantasy and speculative fiction!
Realizing how books are slowly getting broken down into marketing tropes for is hard for me as a writer because there are a lot of times where I just feel like that's a spoiler. I get where this comes from, the language of fan fic comfort reading full breaking into the mainstream. But like ... what if I want to write a story where there is an element of uncertainty about where the hero's love life is supposed to go, but we've tagged it "second chance romance" so now everyone knows they'll get back with their ex.
"but I want her to look like this when he pushes her down the stairs" yeah, that's exactly how people sound when they hate on the it ends with us cast
Is it just me or "enemies to lovers" are just rebranded UST(unresolved sexual tension)?
I dont mind romantasy existing but it irritates me to no end when i try to find high fantasy books and what im met with is 700 "a thing of x and y" books. same with booktok describing them as great fantasy novels and people asking "is there spice" under ever book rec