CCK Vegetable Cleaver / Slicer - KF1812 - NO.2 Review - Chan Chi Kee - Cai Dao
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- In this video, I will be reviewing the CCK Vegetable Cleaver / Slicer KF1812. Chan Chi Kee got its popularity in the west due to the TV series called: ''The Layover'' where Anthony Bourdain visited a shop in Hong Kong at Shanghai Street called Chan Chi Kee.
There is a new CCK (Chan Chi Kee) Cleaver around, the only difference is that they opted for a lasered logo version with English letters instead of stamped Embossed logo. CCK has a lot of versions that look similar but are totally different in usage.
Measurements*:
Length: 20.5cm
Width: 9cm
Thickness: 1.6mm
Weight: 270grams
Steel-Type: Stainless
Handle: Hollow Stainless welded handle
Logo: Old stamped logo (2021 version has been replaced with a lasered one).
*These are handmade knives Rockwell and Measurements may differ slightly per knife.
🛒S H O P:
I highly recommend buying from your local Asian supermarket (some of them already increased the price) as they tend to be a lot cheaper there than ordering online.
N O T E S: I highly recommend buying from your local Asian supermarket as they tend to be a lot cheaper there than ordering online.
Knives used in this video:
Chan Chi Kee NO.2 (CCK)
KF1902 (Wooden handle, Chopper)
KF1912 (Wooden handle Vegetable Cleaver, Slicer)
For a full list of all their CCK knives: chanchikee.com/
If you want to support me you can order other knives here:
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T I M E S T A M P S
00:00 - Video introduction
00:16 - Disclosures
00:38 - Before you buy a Chan Chi Kee, CCK 2021 Edition
01:12 - Vegetable Cleaver vs. Dual Purpose Cleaver
01:29 - Chan Chi Kee Choil and Slicing Performance (KF1912)
01:50 - Food Release
02:11 - Edge durability & sharpened angle
02:20 - Edge retention
02:41 - Weight and Spine tapering
02:58 - Knife handle
03:29 - Knife balance point
03:36 - Blade profile
03:49 - Conclusion and recommendation (+Choil Shot and Front Taper) 
Хобби
![Natanael Cano x Oscar Maydon - Giza [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eXCS6-MSQ_Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Professional, on point and precise review just like knife’s blade! For a review under 5 minutes to be this elaborate this definitely deserves more views. 🙇🏻♀️
mom has a chefknife with metal handle, it sounds a lot when you do steel rod things with it.
her dogs tried to bark at it, but that didn't get it more silent.
Great channel and reviews!
Picked-up a CCK 1812 and CCK 1302 based on your reviews and Cooking With Cleavers Channel.
They were razor sharp out of the box.
Otherwise I use the Apex Sharpener - Amazing and simple sharpening contraption.
I wish that I picked a CCK 1302 when I was in Hong Kong at the CCK shop but they only had the new logo design. (If I see the old logo somewhere in the Netherlands I will definitely pick one up! I may even buy another KF1912 as a backup/collector's item since I really dig the old design vs the new logo).
So I decided not to get one, the prices there were significantly cheaper than what I can get them for in Europe.
Approx 400HKD to 600HKD dependent on the versions but that was months ago.
The CCK shop was constantly full of people, but the entire street there was amazing especially if you are a restaurant owner (saw a lot of the equipment that we also use in the restaurant, they had a lot of Japanese commercial equipment too that was a big surprise since the restaurants I worked for directly import them from Japan the cutting boards we use is imported from HK).
I took your advice and ask the seller if I could get a “stamped logo” version. Unfortunately not available. I received both with laser engraved. Very happy with these cleavers. Thank you for your excellent and honest reviews 👍
@@communicationiskey- yeah stamped logo is only available with the old batches, some oriental supermarkets may still have some old stock.
But overall the knife is exactly the same just a minor aesthetic change.
You may also look at Leung Tim, (not sure if that was the name), it is almost a copy of the CCK, but then with softer steel. (also stamped logo like the old CCK logo's). I'm currently testing them, a review will follow. CCK is better but for the price of the Leung Tim approx $25 US (I paid 20 Euro, they now increased the price to 25/30 Euro), you get a similar knife but then with less edge retention.
I haven't heard anything from the brand Leung Tim, but for the cheap price, you get a cheap copy of a CCK but then with softer steel.
US prices:
CCK 1302: $69.50 including shipping
CCK 1812: $75.50 including shipping.
Your were correctly, metal handle on 1812 is very comfortable.
Both great Chinese vegetable cleavers.
@@communicationiskey- that is actually reasonably priced! is that with sales tax? Unfortunately in Europe we just have to pay a premium for everything :( (prices do include sales tax already)
As usual, great videos but a bit on the repetitive side regarding the variety of knifes. Still love it though.
I bought 3 knifes end of last year after watching all your videos (2 Dengjia cleavers and 1 Dongsun knif) and I was very pleased with them, but they starting to lose their edge (I hone them regularly as I'm also a former cook). Could you do a review of the best affordable good sharpening wetstones?
Keep up the great work, mate.
I would also like to see a video like this.
And maybe a quick video demonstrating how to sharpen a vegetable cleaver. I know the mechanics of sharpening a cleaver aren't wildly different they are for sharpening any other knife, but I would really like to see how you maintain your knives.
Great ideas I will be working on them once the requested knives are reviewed I will move on to some other content besides the reviews like sharpening, whetstones, etc.
CCK does a whetstone the size of a brick but only at 400 grit as far as I know. Good quality & reasonably price. Can’t give you an exact figure as I got mine off my local butcher
you have an awesome channel man.
it would be nice if you would do a video explaining about the guiding hand (the hand that holds the food) how you hold the veggies and how you retract the claw
Thanks for the idea! Will see what I can do :)
nice video, i want to see more cutting footage of this knife.
Thank you and noted! :)
Chef, would like to see you show us your works and recipes in the kitchen while explaining why you love to use certain knives for certain tasks or reviewing certain knives in the process of doing your works. Ganbatte!
A great idea will try my best quite busy lately with restaurant pretty much fully opening for guests to dine-in. (most restaurants struggle to find employees atm).
@@chefpanko glad that there are progressive reopening on your side! Stay safe, chef!
Hi Chef! I like very much your videos, sorry for my poor english! Have you ever heard about the knifes made by the brand Mitsumoto Sakari, with steel 9cr18mov?
Yes, I have heard of them but did not try them as for 9cr I like the steel-type but the quality differs from each manufacturer and brand.
I have tested the one from Dengjia:
Dengjia Vegetable Cleaver Review TM-9050 (9Cr15Mov):
ruclips.net/video/B_khFoUhWpw/видео.html
Dengjia Vegetable Cleaver JCD 904 Review - 9Cr15Mov:
ruclips.net/video/cM9lM-YVi-U/видео.html&t
Hi Panko, I've received the 8" chef knife from Xinzuo, now I have both VG-10 copy steel and german one.
The vg-10 copy is amazing, you should try it.
I came to a conclusion that in my tiny kitchen managing an 8" knife is too big, I've already managed to cut myself :(
Too narrow spaces in my kitchen, I will probably buy a 7" santoku, Xinzuo of course
Thank you for sharing your experience with the knives. Changing knife styles can change your preferance a lot. Have you tried a Nakiri? It is short and the added width helps in preventing from making mistakes/ cutting yourself.
👍😁
Hey chef im starting my new job in a french restaurant next month and i want to get a new gyuto to replace my old cheap one. Im looking at the ryky tran knives and the sg2 makato kurosaki sakura 210mm gyuto, im more of a push cutter and love octagonal wa handles. Do you have any opinions or experience with these knives
Ofc he has. Do a search, he’s probably covered them already. For your reference: ruclips.net/video/rysUN92CxGE/видео.html (Chef Panko’s video on Gyuto)
The chefknives subreddit has a weekly "recommend me" which is great for personal style and price range, as well as availability in your area reddit.com/r/chefknives
It depends on many factors what you are going to use it for what station etc (what kind of prep work).
I have no idea about how well ryky sg2 knives performs as I have never tried it, Makoto Kurosaki knives are good but depends on your preferance.
What I like or prefer may not suit others therefore I try to finish my knife picking guide but most of the information is there just need to add more pictures and a knmife selector (which will show you what will suit you the best based on your answers): www.chefpanko.com/choosing-your-knife/
Different cuisines, techniques requires specific knives especially if it is for cooking in a restaurant as you will be doing hours of prep before service start.
My questions would be why the Gyuto? as thickness plays a major role while many will praise the thinner knives but for some stations you need a thicker knife especially if you are cooking as a job.
You will be using the same motion over and over again every single day depenend on what you need to prep for the menu.
For example a cucumber for Sushi will be cut into the same lenght as the seaweed over and over again.
Most of the chef's has a fingertip grip to remove the core which contains a lot of water and to split them and cut then in long sizes that match the seawead.
Or if it is fish we use different slicing techniques like:
''Sogizukiri'' Slicing = basically maximizes the fish's surface area.
The blade is never pushed or cut but is drawn/pulled smoothly back without adding any pressure or downward force. (let the blade do the work for you).
''Sogizukiri'' also called ''Sogigiri'': is used to slice very thin fish, improving texture.
Since we want total control without any extra force, we sushi chef's use the fingertip grip, we can also feel how smooth the knife goes through the fish, and if we missed to pull out a pin-bone, we can stop and pull it out without risking chipping a high Rockwell (62+) blade. (if you add speed, then only add ''speed'' but don't at any ''pressure'' or ''downward force'' with speed).
How do you know you added too much speed and force?
Many restaurants now even prep nigiri and sashimi slices.
If the kitchen paper beneath the salmon is soaked in fish juices during the shift, you know you tore the salmon flesh. (Reduce speed, force, pressure, downward force, or your knife is dull and go back to a controlled speed; do not sacrifice quality for speed).
While a Gyuto works for the same purpose, most high-end restaurant will get a Yanagiba like knives (many variations like Osaka styled or Tokyo styled etc.) for those fish slicing task to avoid tearing the flesh or to keep them as fresh as possible.
Omakase style where the chef's slice the pre-prepped salmon or tuna filet in front of you and turn it into a nigiri slice or sashimi those will prefer a very sharp knife with minimal damage and they will also make sure that the fish has a room temperature. (in this case they choose sharpness over durability and edge retention).
Do you plan on reviewing the CCK 1303 small cleaver?
Also, are you planning on making a patreon account?
I may do a review of it once I get my hands on it but I want to visit the store in person and buy it there (once the travel restrictions have been lifted I hope to visit the store ).
I have not thought about Patreon yet, as I don't have anything else to offer on the Patreon platform and that is why I have not created one.
@@chefpanko, let me know when you’re coming. I’ll go to the shop with you. It’s me, the former fried spaghetti
How is the finish on the spine and choil? are they rounded off enough that they don't dig into your skin?
how much would you say the online price premium is?
The spine is fine, not sharp however each knife will vary slightly in terms of finish.
When ordering online it is hard to know what you get, if possible I recommend visiting an Asian supermarket where they usually have them in a big batch where you can choose from.
Online prices are approx $90+/- US dollar.
A lot of Asian supermarkets have increased the price too I think the current prices are around $75 or some even are increased it on par with online prices.
At the Chan Chi Kee store depending on which version you get it to be around 300 to 500HKD. (even at the CCK store they have replaced the majority with the new lasered logo version)
@@chefpanko great, thanks!
Your thoughts on Dexter Russell please chef Panko!
I haven't tried them, but they look good some of thier series reminds me of Victorinox.
Unfortunatly it ia hard for me to get my hands on a Dexter as I'm from Europe and thier are pretty much no webshops that offer them.
Chef, where can I buy a good Chinese meat cleaver for chopping up whole chicken?
Did you try the "Thin Slicer" / Mulberry knife? Would you pick it over the vegetable slicer? I am going for a combo of the Dual Purpose Cleaver and a thinner knife.
Short answer: I did try the Mulberry knives one of it can is the Shibazi F208 that I reviewed, but it is highly manufacturer dependable.
Long Answer:
after speaking to multiple Chinese manufacturers there is a slightly different understanding in terms of knife purposes and the naming of it (many of the knives have been modified so much that it does not carry the specific name that the Chinese history says about the specific name).
As I discovered there are simply a lot of different naming and knife styles while looking similar despite having the name, thin slicer, vegetable knife, and mulberry knife.
The manufacturers rather go by their purpose, since they are multi-purpose but in order to market to the masses they needed a specific name to educate the consumers.
And due to the long history of the knives and why the Mulberry knife was changed in name due to some
So some will use 片刀 - slicer some will use 菜刀 - vegetable knife Caidao, and some will use 桑刀 Mullbery knife in the name.
As explained by the manufacturers they also make region-specific knives as China is big with different cultures in terms of how and what they cook per specific region and what dialect they speak.
However, when they sold it to resellers it was quite hard to market those knives to the masses so they generalized a lot of knives under a specific name.
Understanding the characters is quite important to know the specific knife but each manufacturer has a slightly different take on them.
The Mulberry knife was not called the ''Mulberry knife'' (''桑刀'' -''sāng dāo'') in the Qing Dynasty. As it was called a ''Leaf Knife'' (''叶刀'' - ''Yè dāo”). Since '叶刀'' - ''Yè dāo” had the ''叶'' -' 'Yè'' which was the name of the empress at that time - “yè nà lā shì” - “叶那拉氏”. They changed it to Mulberry Knife - ''桑刀'' -''sāng dāo''.
However, for the Chinese market, the manufacturers do have quite a specific name per the purpose of the knives for better categorization.
桑刀 / 叶刀'' - Mulberry Knife - Supposed to be thinner, lighter, and sharper (steeper sharpening angle) long and narrow (according to the majority of the manufacturers this was supposed to be high carbon non-stainless but some have changed the same idea to a stainless version).
片刀 - Slicing Knife - wider than Mullbery knife however as I was told by manufacturers they also make 小片刀 small slicing knife which is almost no longer distinguishable from the 桑刀 Mullberry knife other than the knife being stainless.
文武刀 - Chopping and Slicing knife (ie Dual-purpose/All-purpose knife)
斩骨刀 - Bone Chopping Knife
九江刀 - Kau Kong Knives (River knives) are the ones with an extra front part so not entirely rectangular wider front.
烧腊刀 - Roast Meat Knife
拍皮刀 - Dumpling knife
鸭片刀 - Duck-slicing knife
菜刀 - This specific knife is not specified as a knife since they are multi-purpose the naming may confuse people. But some manufacturers use 菜刀 which is a 片刀.
Hope that this explains it a bit, as I do not find Mullberry, CaiDao, Slicing knives, or Small Slicing knives to differ a lot and it highly depends on the manufacturers.
However the history and principles have been set for the 桑刀 Mullberry knife, that kind of version has been modernized to modern standards with the stainless steel versions being better than what they sold in that period of time ''Qing dynasty''.
I know it is a long answer as I'm trying to get an article out about this subject and a potential video as I'm working with some of the manufacturers (some with over 100+ years in the knife-making business) to get the facts right and what their take is.
General consensus: 桑刀 - Mulberry Knife, 片刀 - Slicing Knife, 小片刀 - Small Slicing Knife, 菜刀 - CaiDao Vegetable knife can be categorized into one type of knife that we in the west know as Vegtable knife 菜刀, but this type of naming is rarely used by the manufacturers when they market it for the Chinese market but rather use 片刀 - slicing knife.
@@chefpanko Thank you very much, this has been incredibly insightful.
If you want I can give you some advice for your video on materials hardness and edge geometry.
It's hard to tell online because the main difference is in the grind (edge geometry) of the primary bevel. Not just the sharpening angle (secondary bevel).
Both are really important to edge retention and cutting performance.
It does not help that most vendors don't specify their angles / hardness and customers don't understand how they affect cutting performance and edge retention.
I picked the CCK KF1301 and KF1901, because my wife in Hong Kong right now.
@@philipp594 CCK are good knives and especially when you can buy them in HK the prices there are a lot lower! around 450/500HKD when I was there 2+ years ago.
I agree, there is a lot to know about the knives which are hard to translate into a video or spec sheet/pictures.
I try to adjust my reviews so that it is understandable for non-knife nerds.
As the grind and secondary bevel are important but hard to translate in a video or picture. So I try to show a Choil shot and explain it in general terms. Since the choil can say a lot about the knife but can also be widely misunderstood.
However, I find Rockwell hardness as specified by the manufacturer less important especially when you have the same steel type with the same Rockwell rating they perform so differently depending on how the manufacturer heat treated it. (that being said online webshops should include them since we can't test or hold the knife).
An example is the Shun knives VG-Max Rockwell 61.
But the Ryusen Hamano VG10 knives Rockwell rating 60 is for some reason far superior in edge retention than the VG-Max from Shun.
But after asking them, they told me that they specify the Rockwell of 60, but that they already surpassed that in their heat treatment which they manage to reach a Rockwell of 63 on a VG10.
But yet they still keep saying that it is 60 on the Rockwell scale to their retailers.
So I find that the Choil shot should be included by most vendors if they sell online, while the Rockwell does not say a lot it is a good indication for those online shoppers so that they can set a expectation of what they get at the minimum. Even went the average consumer doesn't know what the Rockwell rating means or sharpened angle (which most knife nerds will have a general understanding of).
I have modified my latest review video to make it more understandable to the average consumer while having enough details for the knife nerds to see. But it is something I try to tweak so if you have more suggestions please do provide them and if possible an example of how to showcase it in a video. any suggestions or feedback is highly appreciated, but also I have to think about the average consumers too that are not knife nerds.
@@chefpanko You are right on some things. The same rockwell perform only different if the edge geometry is different. Edge geometry is more important than hardness. But a harder material will allow for better edge retention with a thinner edge geometry, but will often be more brittle and can crack. The only way to have both is high end powder steels.
But none of that is relevant for chinese knives. They are made in a budget buyers are price sensitve.
It is much easier to source cheap carbon steels, you can even get them from recycling coil springs or similar materials. They are also less sensitive to impurities and much easier to heat treat and normalize.
52100 can be scavanged from old bearings and will perform on par with the best shirogami out there.
It is a very different story with stainless steels. There practicly no stainless steels that can achieve high hardness and fine grain size without a lot of precise alloying and complicated like cryo heat treatments.
The upside to stainless steels is that they are very unlikely to crack because the lock between the chromium carbides and the other materials is very strong.
So I would go with a carbon steel slicer and a stainless chopper both need to have excellent edge geometry and need to be well made.
The difference in normalizing and grain size will be negligible. If the same steel is hardened to the same hardness you won't be able to tell the difference. If they are differences they are from the geometry and polish.
@@philipp594 indeed! I totally agree that edge geometry and the trade-off between hardness and brittleness.
As for heat treatment, if done poorly the Rockwell testing machines will show the same Rockwell but the performance/ductility of the steel will be more brittle if they did not do it correctly.
As spoken with some manufacturers that modernized most of the knife-making processes.
They discovered that air can drastically change the entire steel structure along with the source material from various raw steel suppliers.
And why they upgraded their manufacturing process by vacuum heat treatment and rapid cooling.
One of the struggles they had was finding a correct raw steel supplier, as they discovered while they share the same on paper they could not get a certain heat treatment standard compared to their in-house test vs raw steel suppliers test.
This alone (Raw Steel suppliers and wrong air exposure during heat treatment and cooling) can change the steel structure drastically in terms of its ductility.
So the same exact knife with the exact same materials but done under different heat treatment methods can drastically have a different ductility despite the Rockwell machine showing the exact same Rockwell. So a knife with a Rockwell of 63 on both knives there will be far more brittle and less ductile than the correct heat-treated one.
I will try to get an article out about it and work with the manufacturers on that article if they agree to let me publish some of their manufacturing processes.
That being said I will probably do a Q&A with an OEM in the near future. Hopefully, they are willing to answer some of the deeper digging questions otherwise it will not bring any extra value compared to what is already out there.
Have you ever tried a kitchen knife in M390 steel ? I've seen Xinzuo made a knife in m390 ( HSS steel ) , 135$ roughly.
I've already bought too many knives ( LOL ) , still waiting my 2nd xinzuo .
It would be cool if you tried it.
Haha I will see what I can do I'm curious about the M390 steel so I may buy it but can't promise anything :)
@@chefpanko Yeah I'm very curious too , it's not like 65hrc but has other nice features
@@dimmacommunication I have read about the M390 in the past and back then it was highly dependable on the manufacturer on how the steel performs in terms of edge retention wear/tear resistance, rust, durability etc. And each of those manufactures prefers to focus on a few aspects like making it more durable but the other focuses more on edge retention etc. As Xinzuo did a good job with the 440C (also from pocket knives), I'm curious if they can maintain the same quality on the M390 steel.
@@chefpanko what do you think of 440c vs german steel ? I've bought the german steel , but is the 440c much different or slightly?
@@chefpanko According to the steel manufacturer Böhler [Austria] M390 is more suitable for smaller knifes like folder or outdoor/huntig knifes for larger ones, like a Chef Knife, steel like their N690 would be a better choice.
Hola bunas noches me gustaría obtener algún enlace o dirección de compra de este cuchillo CCK Vegetable Cleaver / Slicer - KF1812 - NO.2 - Chan Chi Kee - Cai Dao muchas gracias.
Creo que eBay será tu mejor apuesta. Lee las reseñas del vendedor antes de comprar y pregunta si te las pueden enviar a tu país.
@@chefpanko Hola buenas tardes chef muchas gracias por tu respuesta tratare de mirarlo todo .
Chef when are you putting up a new video??
it was very busy but I hope to get a new video done for next week, after that, I try to get back on the weekly uploads.
I have some interesting knives that I'm currently testing. So more reviews will come soon :)
The next video is the dual purpose cleavers from CCK, and Dao Vua Classic Version 2 (their new updated version).
And a new knife/brand from Japan that I have not heard of has sent their knife to me so I'm waiting for it to arrive until I can judge/test it for review.
@@chefpanko ok chef we all miss seeing you. I just ordered a 240mm leaf spring gyuto from chef knives to go, it's a newer updated version of the leaf spring, the description says it has a better more consistent grind, better heat treatment and the handle is redsigned, I'm excited to get it. Also I've noticed Xinzuo and hezhen are offering new blade steels, hap40 and swedish powder steel, would you be interested in doing a review of those? I own several Xinzuo knives based on your recommendations and are very happy with them
@@milleradam98 I also have the updated version got them directly from Dao Vua as they have contacted me that they saw my old video where I have addressed a lot of the problem with the first version (project knife). they told me they fixed a lot and improved a lot in the newer version at the first sight I can see the direct changes they are better finished, the handle is good, lighter, thinner and the profile of the blade is more in line with the Japanese knives (their first version Gyuto was very curved their newer edition is more in line with the Gyuto's from Japan). Got a few different styles, Gyuto, Santoku, Sujihiki, Bunka, Chinese Cleaver. It was a total surprise as I thought they would send me one to review but ended sending 9 different styles of the newer version as they wanted my feedback/review on them. I will most likely receive a HAP40 steel tomorrow from Japan so very curious about all the hype around HAP40 steel. So I have my hands full, won't be adding new knives yet to the review line-up until I have finished reviewing the review samples I got.
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