Come hang out with us in-person! Rosemary’s Baby Screening & Lecture Tickets: www.eventbrite.com/e/rosemarys-baby-a-private-screening-and-lecture-tickets-1039248118097
What I've never understood is WHY christians pay any attention to the supposed power of Satan to get at them. Do they not believe they are protected by Christ? What do they have to fear?
They're motivated by pride and ego, not fear. They want to be the one to save souls from Satan, but since Satan isn't real and all of the good culprits have already been targeted, they have to settle for "saving" people from gag toys.
It depends on denomination for the most part. Modern non denominational fundamentalist evangelicals have thrown a wrench into that though. But for the denominational Christians their beliefs about demons, the powers of Satan, and whether you can "fall" after being saved differ between sects.
on sort of a meta level, I think it stems from a desire to feel they’re the underdogs fighting against something. they need to feel like they’re not punching down on others all the time and it feeds into their victim complexes (imo)
This is true, but like other people said, it depends on the flavor of Christianity, because like a quote I saw on FB these days: "religion is man made but the men who created it cannot come to an agreement" or something like that.
I am just going to leave something I read in a comment of a John Green video talking about the difference between magic and miracles, "when the in group does it is a miracle, when the out group does it is magic"
@@MrSeedi76 Then perhaps you could do something productive and contribute to the conversation with what you consider a more appropriate definition and why. Otherwise I think you're just missing a point.
So hilarious because back in Jesus day if he was real it was the opposite, magic was for the elite, secret society, wealthy cult top 1%, and miracles were the kicked down scraps tossed at the masses to fight over while they kept running their drug cartel /war machine/ insert empire extortion racket
Or it’s like another quote I saw years ago when I left the faith: “When it’s Christianity, it’s White Magic. When it’s not Christianity, it’s Black Magic (and, therefore, evil, demonic, and Satanic)”
I used to have tarot decks without believing in any sort of divination powers. They often have very unique and gorgeous themed art (I had an egyptian gilded tarot that was so pretty!). However, the real fun use I found with them was in character creation. By doing a 10-card spread like you'd do with a real person, you can interpret the cards according to the common meanings and build a complex characterization that breaks outside of your normal instincts on what type of characters you want to explore. Some spreads will have inherently contradictory cards, and it becomes a fun challenge to figure out how to explain these clashes.
That sounds like a fun way to make a character personality. That's amazing. I also have tarot without the believe in the powers for the art. My favorite right now is the Cyberpunk deck.
There's actually a couple of RUclips channels specializing in Tarot for Writing Prompts and Tarot for Character Development in Writing Fiction. Several of the bigger "TarotTube" creators on RUclips do NOT use Tarot for divination, including 1 of the biggest teachers of Tarot. I think her Channel us called "The Simple Tarot" and she stresses that she does not do or teach divination, and she doesn't bring religion into it. But it's 1 of the best channels to learn Tarot on RUclips.
as both a witch and a fiction writer, this is such a cool concept!! I've definitely used tarot for writing inspiration before but I'll have to try this out too
This reminds me so much of when Brittany Dawn set up an alter in her car to manifest a baby and insisted it wasn't manifesting because manifesting is evil.
Your take on why deconstructing christians move to witchcraft is spot on! I found out pretty early on in my deconstruction that I thrive on ritual, and earth-based spirituality just works so well for me.
you and me both... and that for me was back in 1997! I've never waivered from my earth centric spirituality path and have only with age grown to really appreciate that being raised Roman Catholic gave me the gift of ritual at the bare minimum. I deconstructed and discarded everything else.
As someone who grew up catholic its interesting to see their shocked reaction to the study stating that catholics are likely to believe that objects/physical things can possess divine energies. And then somehow connect it to the New Age movement as if it had not been a central tradition in catholicism for centuries.
Roman Catholics made up a lot of stuff that is non biblical. Not that I believe the Bible are *facts* but that catholicism is that last place next to America Evangelism to look for Bibical Accuracy.
@@emilwandelTraditional catholics are those who put a lot of emphasis on “traditional practices” which may extend to, but is not limited to, exorcism, belief in posession, belief in spirits’ ability to visit and change things in the world, etc This is coming from my recollection after 13 years of catholic school, but i’m not an expert. Please take everything with a grain of salt:)
Certain family members of mine were not happy with the pentagrams on my Halloween tree and front door wreath decoration. The blood, skeletons, demon things, etc, didn't seem to trigger them, but the pentagram was too much I guess.
@@kieranczyzyk9064 wrong. those old churches were using pagan symbols as the people that made them were forced to convert. the pentagram has nothing to do with christianity.
@@ashishpatel350 Or, 'Christianity' is 'paganism' with a new cover? There are many practices that would be considered 'pagan', and reading the Bible, there is a lot of symbolism and astrotheology in it.
I am an atheist and enjoy tarot cards as a form of meditation. I ask questions of myself and then use the cards i select to prompt thoughts about the topic that I explore. I don’t use the cards to predict anything but to encourage me to think more deeply and explore my feelings in a wider capacity.
Tarot cards are definitely fun for a thinking exercise. Lay them out. Try to create a meaning, create a story, from the spread? Can you create a narrative? Can you make it make sense?
The analysis of "satan masquerading as an angel of light" is so good and necessary. Evangelical Christians neglect to defend people from abuse, false doctrines, and dogmatic oppressive perspectives and practices within their own institution.
Right? The second they brought up the masquerading part, I was like... uh hey? Ever seen evangelical churches? Like... if I described a bunch of youngsters dancing to pop music and drinking blood and claiming to speak for God through absurd sounds... wouldn't most evangelicals see that as satanism?
Ok, I LOVE that she started with the spirit board!! My husband and I found it last month on Amazon and about passed out reading the reviews! They were top notch comedy. 😂😂😂
As someone who owns a tarot deck, I love that thumbnail. I see cards as a thought experiment or meditation aid. The symbolic pictures plug fresh variables into the equation of your brain. Btw, I’ve found symbolism is generally antithetical to fundamentalists.
I like this. I don’t believe in anything supernatural, but I like the idea of Tarot as meditation and I use things like a pentagram and candles to help my ADHD brain settle down and focus - reconnect brain and body. It helps me, especially when I’m getting ready to sit down and write music or do something creative, to have a short ritual with something physical/tangible to use for centering. Also - occult imagery maks for great music, art, and storytelling!
Never heard the term bibliomancy before, but it’s a good one to know! I guess that’s basically how Christianity appropriated previous pagan/heathen practices?
I can’t really speak to whether or not it was a practice appropriated from pagan practices. Something I’m learning is that many practices Evangelicals nowadays would call “occultic” or “demonic” were just givens for many early church fathers and writers - like Paul was a mystic. I think many evangelicals would frown on bibliomancy, but they also do believe the Bible can speak directly to their lives even if they don’t think you should randomly flip through pages … so it’s like where do they draw the line, you know?
@@theantibot they draw the line anywhere they need to in order to support their arguments. Which is weird because I thought Christians were supposed to have rock solid faith and not to budge from the "proper theology"? They should consider joining sports since they're great at moving goalposts.
It definitely seems like the kind of thing that could arise all on its own without knowing about previous divination practices. You have a book you trust, you need an outside answer, you flip open that book.
So excited for this! Your commentary is always so nuanced, thorough and insightful. Also, it always makes me laugh to see Drew's incredulous or amused reactions to these clips you show him.
13:41 Can I just say I love your editing? I love that it's minimal and efficient, but i also love the moments you insert from the editing process. There's something really charming about the black and white freeze frame and the smooth voice over and the blink back into the video. Idk I just really love the way you handle those moments
I just remember her from that video she put out yelling at milennials for leaving the church and all the comments were praising milennials for doing so lol
When she says the product promises to never contact evil spirits, I’ve got this mental image of customers forming a class action after defective ouija boards summon evil spirits into a church lol
Ouija boards were literally copyright by Hasbro. They're not ancient tools of divination and communication with dark forces, they're the Monopoly Man's creepy weird uncle.
Copyrighted by (though not the first to patent it), but not created by Hasbro. If you want to be really nit-picky, spirit boards (note: not ouija boards) might actually be considered "ancient tools of divination", since a precursor was used in China some thousand years ago (though in the shape of spirit writing). Then spirit boards were popularized in the west during the 1800s. I don't know if they were inspired by the chinese, but it wouldn't surprise me, since a lot of spiritualists and occultists "borrowed" practices from all over asia. Still, the ouija board is definetley a novelty item, and (unfortunately) not a demon summoning tool.
Same here, I also wasn't allowed to have friends that were allowed to play. It's crazy the stupid things people believe and do because of fears of ancient mythologies.
I honestly dont understand why so many people linked DND to being “satanic”. It’s just a role playing game with fantasy characters and cool powers. The campaigns can range significantly in terms of subject matter and setting, and especially if you’re making your own homebrew campaign. You could make a horror campaign, a more absurd/comedic toned campaign. You can make a modern campaign where they go to college and learn how to fight and use powers, or a post apocalyptic campaign. YOU DONT EVEN HAVE TO USE MAGIC! Depending on the race and class your characters are in YOU DONT EVEN HAVE TO INCLUDE SPELLS. I mean, it significantly limits some of the stuff you can do and a lot of the variety you can have among your group, but you *could* theoretically do that. Heck if you wanted to you could even put your DND characters in a biblical setting.
Same here. The second best time to start d&d is right now though. It's a lot of fun and learning the rules and being able to role-play only gets easier with age. I started playing at 24 during covid and I still play monthly with friends.
Former Catholic, current Pagan witch here! Your assessment is spot on, your respect and understanding is stellar. Their misinformation is hilarious. 12th century parlour games have never been so spooooooky
13:18 I found the “tarot” cards: They are The PSALM cards by Rabbi Robert dos Santos Teixeira. The website does mention that the cards and guide incorporate insights from hinduism, judaism and Jungian psychology, and can be used as a tool for prayer, meditation and as an oracle which I know would raise “red flags” for some conservative Christians
I just started using tarot cards as a self-reflection tool, not a supernatural practice, so I'm glad to find from your video that other people do this too!
The whole psalm cards is bananas to me because literally in my church there were laminated cards of lesser known prayers for people to use. At what stage does it become the evil card
Loved the video. As a European it seems weird to me that this level of magical thinking is expressed publicly (and proudly, apparently). My heart goes out to the rational people in the US having to deal with this on a daily basis. How aren't you all blue in the face from the facepalms is beyond me. Magical thinking has gone unchecked for too long in the US, and speaking up against it should be a priority. Because, and I hate to tell you this, from outside it seems that the US is sinking into a theocracy.
The worst thing about it is that even if Harris is elected and Trump dies or becomes unable to run for president again, Project 2025 will still exist for the Republicans to implement the next time they get elected. I feel like either way we've reached a fail state for America and Harris can only delay the inevitable even if she's the best president ever. Trump has enabled the Republicans to shift the Overton window so far that literal N@zi talking points are normalized, and the Democrats don't have the power nor the will to fix that. Democrat leaders have basically been the enabling parent that stays with the abusive parent in a dysfunctional family because they personally aren't being harmed, and they've waited until the abuser (Republicans) has escalated to obvious life-threatening levels of physical abuse and homicidal ideation towards some of their children (citizens who are POC, anyone who can get pregnant, queer people, etc.) to address it.
Sorry if I double-post this, I'm trying to water this down enough so RUclips allows it. The worst thing about it is that even if Harris is elected and Trump can't run for president again, Project 2025 will still exist for the Republicans to implement the next time they get elected. I feel like either way we've reached a fail state for America and Harris can only delay the inevitable even if she's the best president ever. Trump has enabled the Republicans to shift the Overton window so far that openly bigoted, antisocial, authoritarian rhetoric is normalized. The Democrats don't have the power nor the will to fix that. Democrat leaders have basically been the enabling parent that stays with the violent parent in a dysfunctional family because they personally aren't being harmed, and they've waited until the violent one (Republicans) has escalated to obvious life-threatening levels of physical harm and homicidal ideation towards some of their children (citizens who are POC, anyone who can get pregnant, queer people, etc.) to address it.
I didn't know what I was going to do today. This vid dropped, and now I know what I'm going to do today. Obsessed with you two, keep doing what you're doing :)
Nah they just couldn't make money grifting off the fear of religious zealots until recently. They don't care about occult stuff, they just like making money by demonizing it.
56:20 “You don’t need to defeat [so and so’s] belief in a god” is so on point. Believing in a god might correlate with actually pernicious beliefs, and the habits of mind that enable belief in a particular sort of god might have a causal role in problematic beliefs, but the belief in a god, by itself, entails almost nothing, morally or otherwise. Further, if we “defeat” the belief in a god, that will not, by itself, bring about anything good or helpful. So it’s vastly more helpful to focus on “defeating” other things like counterproductive intellectual habits, inhumane morals, and so on.
Using Tarot as tool of self reflection is spot on for me. I mainly got a tarot deck for the art but also to push my self through my fear of purchasing something which i was heavely influenced call evil for so long. Occationally its kind of fun to pull it out if im questioning my self on something but its not something i take too seriously, kind of like personality tests.
Tarot cards were used for games before cartomancy, dating back all the way to 15th century italy. The tarot game is still played where I live in southern France, although admittedly most people will have to google the rules before starting. Also, the lower deck in tarot is just a set of what we use as common playing cards, with the four suits. They're not really separate things, so it's funny to think of one set as inherently demonic
I was always taught growing up that things like fortune telling, reiki, summoning spirits, etc. were real and that the people doing those things had real spiritual giftings (fortune telling = prophetic gift, reiki = healing gift, etc.) but that they were just "tapped into the wrong source" and were "counterfeits of the real thing"... I think a lot of these Christians do realize how similar their practices are to other rituals, but they claim that it's because those rituals/beliefs ALL have power, just only the Christian version is safe and that anything else is just copying from Christianity... not the other way around.
I grew up in evangelical charismatic Christianity, and after I left the faith I've been discovering a lot of similarities between the rituals in my former church and various pagan/esoteric/spiritual practices. Like, manifesting was totally a thing! It was coupled with "proclamation", and the idea was that you'd shout out loud what you wanted to manifest, and believed in it really hard, then god would manifest it for you. If you've ever seen Kenneth Copeland shouting at Covid-19 (instead of setting up ANY contagion safety measures for his church), you get an idea of what that was like. We did the same with faith healing. A whole group of people would lay hands on the sick person and pray, and the prayer leader would finish, saying with a loud voice "in the name of Jesus, you are healed!" (that was a lot of performance pressure on the sick person, ngl). We also had a practice of anointing people, homes and objects with oil (anointing oil from Israel was believed to be especially powerful) to banish evil presences. How is that so different from smoke cleansing or from casting circles of protection around you? In reality I think that many Christian rituals were strongly inspired by pagan rituals as it spread through the Roman empire throughout Europe, while the dogma began demonizing all deities besides Yahweh in the wake of monotheism. But people can just as genuinely commune with Ares as Christians can with Jesus. Same magick.
I cannot express in words how much I want these supposedly Christian talking heads to sit down with an actual Biblical Scholar, or even someone experienced in a theology that isn't their own
Evangelicals have to do a pretty strange dance when you think about it - they want their congregants to study the Bible and immerse themselves in it, enough to get them indoctrinated. But they don’t want them to study it *too* hard or it might bring up some very uncomfortable questions
@@squidpope9344 Which translation, from what year? The 'morning star' referenced in the Torah/old testament is literally the planet Venus, and has been purposefully mistranslated to fall in line with popular Christian culture. When a book is full of vague metaphor and symbolism, it can be twisted to suit any narrative...
@LordVolkov Correct, and you have the Roman mythological figure and its cult to deal with as well Didn't know how deeply we were going to get into this, I chose a shallow answer for a shallow arena: RUclips Comments
2:16 "we're seeing the occult be glamorized more than in the past" ma'am John Dee was a Court Magician. To Queen Elizabeth the First. In the 1550's. Who claimed to have discovered the language of angels, I'm pretty sure. Yeesh
Not to mention the more recent fear of demonic sources during the Satanic Panic in the 1980s when things like Dungeons and Dragons became popular as well as music, movies and TV shows about devils and other occult topics.
You two make so many good points. It’s been eight years since I started questioning, but my fundamentalist upbringing still makes me nervous when Satan is mentioned. I was always scared of him as a child and even as an adult. Ironic how they use Satan as a scare tactic, yet Christ is supposed to keep you safe. Your puppy is so cute!
25:46 the Crash Course Religion episode “what’s the difference between religion and magic” does a really good job framing it almost exactly as you’re doing
I grew up Catholic (not practicing anymore lol) and in recent years I’ve realized how much Catholicism overlaps with the occult lol. Ouija boards, tarot, and candles are bad but prayer beads, relics, all the little ‘blessed’ medals and coins in Catholicism are fine. So much of Catholicism is basically spells and rituals, but they still damn the occult. Catholicism promotes mysticism and various spiritual practices like crazy, but condemns anything that’s not specifically Catholic. At the same time as a young Catholic I would have Protestants telling me that mysticism and rosaries and praying to saints is occult
Folk Catholic witches exist! They use the “magical” practices of Catholicism and often focus on the saints rather than Jesus or God Chaotic Witch Aunt is one and she goes to mass to sneak the Eucharist crackers out under her tongue 😂
to the card thing: tarot cards have a specific structure to them, 78 cards, 4 suits, 22 major arcana. oracle cards are basically anything. the psalm cards look just like... psalm cards, sure they could be used for divination but so can any other oracle or affirmation or such cards! are we demonizing playing cards now?
Thank you for this! I wish I would’ve explained more that Tarot cards are a specific playing card deck. Allie and Hilary just see tarot and oracle cards as being synonymous. Following their logic then any and all playing cards should be avoided. There’s actually fundamental Christians who believe this, but I’m not sure if Allie does.
@@theantibot yeah that is what I expected, I would more be surprised if they knew the differences! would they also be against a regular deck of cards then too...? there's a way to use a regular deck like the minor arcana in tarot after all
Considering my Mennonite grandpa won’t use “casino cards” aka normal playing cards due to the association with gambling, yes, playing cards are absolutely demonized in certain groups
I REALLY just went to go to my fundie family & play with the Holy Spirit board while singing ✨Holy Spirit activate, Holy Spirit active, activate✨ just to see the look on their faces. 😂😂
Was not looking at the screen for the first fifteen minutes and genuinely thought there was only ONE woman talking in the video. Are these women mass-produced?!
As a super white blonde woman I feel attacked 🤣🤣 Sarcasm. I totally agree with you. I’m a born and raised atheist but hate that I absolutely would blend in with these women.
42:18 I think in 2024, political faction has mostly supplanted religious theology as the key source of identity and systems of belief, so conservative evangelicals feel much closer kinship to conservative Mormons than they do to liberal evangelicals. I think this also helps explain why it doesn’t really bother them that Trump isn’t meaningfully Christian. Or at least, not meaningfully motivated by Christian theology.
I think this is my favorite video of yours that I've seen. When I left the church in my late teens / early twenties, I went straight into spiritualism and witchcraft, which then further evolved into general philosophy and the understanding that all of these practices are psychological and social tools that mirror one another in so many ways. I dont believe in "magic" anymore, but I do believe in the power of symbolism, self-reflection, and world-building that are an inherent function of ceremony and ritual. Religion, spirituality, philosophy, psychology - are all expressions of the human mind and the cultures we co-create. Whenever Christians criticize something from "the culture" that they themselves practice, or convince themselves they are somehow seperate from the rest of the world, I chortle. No one lives in a vacuum - their entire belief system is a product of culture. And prayer, meditation, spells... they're all expressions of the same thing - cultivating an attitude or narrative within yourself with the hope or intention that it will be reflected in some external way in your life - whether that be a god or the universe responding to you, or just you altering your own thoughts and behaviors.
13:28 all cards used to do divination/connecting with a spirit or deity count as oracle decks. Within that is tarot, which has specific cards and a set of layouts and traditions associated with it. The scripture cards and affirmations can absolutely be called oracle decks, she just doesn’t understand that that’s what they are
Wow. When Allie says "Satan is not a respecter of persons," that's a shocking misquote from the Bible. The verse she's alluding to (Romans 2:11) actually says "GOD is not a respecter of persons".
Such a good video! I particularly loved the discussion regarding Western Esotericism, I actually don't know a lot about that topic and now I want to check it out! I agree so much about learning about the history of religion vs. learning how to debunk religion, I think it is a way more healthy way to explore your relationship with faith. I've recently been obsessed with platonism and how it affected biblical thinking
Greetings from Southern Ontario Canada. I just found your channel. I am watching your vids on MLM's, and I find them very refreshing. I am smart enough to have never fallen for their bullshit from any of them I have encountered and I am very glad you have posted informative vids on them. I have a deep hatred for scammers and people alike. Subbed and gave ya likes.
I turned to witchcraft, specifically heathenry, after I left Christianity because of the focus on divine women. It evolved over time as i gravitated towards gender fluid or gender non-conforming gods as my own relationship with gender changed. I've felt so much more comfortable in my skin after finding community with people who accept women, queer, and trans people on the same level as cis straight men.
But Whats the point to be with people who accept women when not even You want to accept that you're a woman? You're not even able to accept yourself - this is coming from an ex spiritual new ager
You both are really good psychics lol, every thought or comment I had about the video, you guys talked about it just as I thought about commenting the same thing 😂
Christians acting like "manifesting is wiitchcraft" while playing like The Secret isn't witchcraft when it's literally manifestation theology is so hypocritical.
Very excited to watch this while folding up the spooky season shirts we just got at my job- I work at a blood bank and we just got a bunch of vampire themed shirts for donors heheh
Nice! As someone living with a chronic leukemia I just want to say thank you for working the blood bank. I needed a transfusion years ago when I was in the hospital when I first got diagnosed. It took four hours to find a good match for me since I have B- blood. I mean, it also wasn't an emergency situation so of course there was no need to rush. Having stores of blood is SO important, especially for B- and AB- types since they're rare. I urge anyone reading this to look into donating blood. You will literally save lives with your pint!
I never comment on youtube videos, but as someone who found witchcraft/magic immediately during and after leaving Christianity, and as an audhd person, I will say personally I didn’t become a witch because I was looking for ritual…I happen to have always struggled with ritual and faith practice. I started practicing because it felt more natural to how I had always interacted with the earth and nature. I always talked to stars and trees and flowers, so I just keep doing that. I always cooked, so now I just cook while setting intentions. I always loved rocks, so I continue to collect the ones I feel drawn to emotionally per usual. I have a respect and love for the earth that Christianity taught me was evil and a worship of false gods, so now I know I can love the earth and this life with everything in me, down to the herbs I use to cook and the feathers I find on the grass. To me, that emotional connection and awe is magic, and none of it has to do with the religion I left or the god I used to worship and its demands, but everything to do with who I have always been. Everyone’s journey out of Christianity is different and my partner is a hardcore atheist who doesn’t see what I do as anything supernatural. Some would say I don’t practice witchcraft, just mindfulness. I decided that the way I live and see the world happens to fall into what I term witchcraft, and I moved on from there. This is obviously just my personal experience and I wanted to share it in the discussion for anyone else who might relate
Tarot has a definite structure-56 cards divided into 4 suits of Ace through 10 plus four face cards, and 22 Trumps or Major Arcana numbered 0-21 or 1-21 plus an unnumbered card. Tarot started as a card game and still is especially in Europe. The church originally banned tarot (along with dice and dominoes) because it was used for gambling. It existed as a game for centuries before being used for fortune-telling or as a metaphysical tool. People do also use standard 52 playing card decks for fortune-telling.
This is a super fun episode for me as a SASS (Skeptical Agnostic/Atheist Science Seeking) witch. I absolutely use Tarot/Oracle cards and many other forms of "divination" as a means to self-reflection and catharsis. I don't believe in the supernatural AT ALL and yet I still practice witchcraft because it enriches my life and adds dimension to it. It's really fun, and there are actually quite a few of us!
3:45, the baptized Ouija board is arguably quite biblical. For example, in Acts the apostles cast lots to see who God wished to replace Judas. That's called sortilege and cleromancy.
I’m a witch and tarot reader, tarot has helped my anxiety a lot and the whole purpose for me to be a witch is to help my self-empowerment and esteem as well as others. Plus there is many people who are catholic that practice folk traditions that can seem to be magic.
I find the blend of Christian and magical traditions so interesting to me as a witch, especially because I know folk Catholic witches that still use the saints and blend the magic traditions with certain aspects of a Catholicism. Hell, I have products from a Ukrainian witch that she snuck in and got blessed by an Orthodox priest when they were blessing items for the dead. In areas where Christianity has been a long time the folk religious or spiritual practices kept on in ways that appeased the people.
I guess I fall into the category of deconstructed Christian turned witchy tarot reader lol. I only read for myself and my sister who is also into them. We have talked at length that tarot cards are essentially daily devotionals lol it’s hilarious to me that they get so uptight about it now. I find meaning in them because it makes me feel closer to the universe and grounded in myself❤ also tell me that “gift of prophecy” isn’t divination. It’s even biblical! 😂
Interesting story, when I was twenty years old a friend bought a set of tarot cards at a pawnshop. He asked me to help him use them. He read the instructions out loud and I followed them. Long story short he read my future. And now decades later I can confirm that everything he said came true.
It's always weird when this sort of fearmongering/discouraging certain things "even if it's a parody" happens. "Well, some people won't know it's parody." It's like they're trying to play the part of parents "protecting" their kids. It's a strangely prevalent form of micromanaging of other peoples' lives. It's not surprising that you now have generations of folks who got so used to that kind of rhetoric--"I'm just trying to protect you, so you should listen to me"--that they almost solely use these types of media/influencers to then form their opinion on almost anything. Then it's no wonder we have hoards of people believing harmful/ridiculous/made-up things because they've been made to be so afraid of *everything* that they'll just believe things blindly because "well, they say they're trying to protect me, so I guess they know the best." I mean, the amount of times I've heard someone say something along the lines of, "Oh, we weren't allowed to do/watch/read/play ______ growing up, because someone at church told my parents it was bad/demonic/evil/witchcraft" is crazy. And guess what followed that statement up every time: "They didn't research it themselves, though." Like, girl, the Bible says "don't be anxious for anything" and you turn around and funnel that anxiety and fear right back into the church?
After I left Christianity, I wanted absolutely nothing to do with anything spiritual. When I stopped trying to believe in god, that spiritual hole filled and sealed up. So much more simple.
That christ jesus board... good lord... it's an amazing commercial. Aw so cool! Glad you guys sold out the original event! I couldnt attend... much too far away haha
Tarot is actually a lot more specific than just "cards for divination". That definition is that of oracle decks, which tarot falls under. But tarot requires the four suites and a certain number of arcana. Oracles are more varied.
As someone who grew up southern baptist, and similar cause my dad is new age (which is insane). I myself am a Wiccan and pagan, never really been Christian even when I was little. Went to church and watched stuff happen, and go down. It’s funny to me cause “witches” have never been deceiving. Most I have met have been super upfront, very forward about themselves. Compared to a lot of Christian’s who backpedal constantly on arguments (If we are getting nitty gritty) at least. During the time I was going to new age church with my dad, it felt like a cult. Literally, they had their own version of the Bible, and a book that felt really bad to read that they were giving to the kids. It was a book about puritans, it was literally saying bloodshed was good cause it killed witches, and was talking good about slavery. Among other things, I read through it and told my younger brother. Do not read it, it was really bad even for me. The fact that was going to kids and it was highly descriptive and persecutory got me worried. It incited violence, that is my biggest concern.
I like how the Holy Spirit Board uses a planchette in the shape of the thing that they used to kill their lord and savior. It's people like these who are responsible for things like warning labels on Tide Pods because they didn't read the part on the packaging where it says that it will KILL you if you eat them. Also, does it surprise anyone that they read portions of the Holy Spirit Board's website, but not the part that doesn't server their own narrative, kind of like how they might do the same for another book? Oh, yeah, he does forbid divination and such things like in Numbers 5:11-31. I wonder about her clothing and if the fabric is mixed or if she eats shellfish which is an abomination. Oh, by the way, for that Bible passage I referenced, if you know, you know. Heck, there are forms of divination that specifically use the Bible. Ok, you mentioned later bibliomancy already. I like how she also mentions "new age" stuff. The idea of manifestation comes from books of the Bible where the Gospels say that if you have the faith the size of a mustard seed and you tell the mountain to move from here to there, the mountain would move. I would also point out that setting one's intentions, then invoking the name of a powerful being and attempting to manifest your intended outcome using ritual and invocation of that being's power is either casting a spell or praying. Astrology is BS, which is why there were 3 random weird guys giving stuff to a baby because they walked towards a star. They weren't wise, they were crackpots using techniques that the Bible condemns. Is the practice of astrology evil and these 3 men were invoking dark practices or were they wise or kings?
i have been DYING for someone to do more vids on allie beth. id love a big deep dive of her videos, history, etc. i havent sat through any of her content personally, so im not sure if theres enough meat for the kind of vid im imagining.
I identify as both an occultist, pagan, and a skeptic. I'm closer to an atheist than to a theist, but I have some beliefs that I guess one doesn't have as an atheist, so I mostly call myself "generally spiritual" if someone asks. For me, things don't have to be so black and white. It was one spiritual creator who called witchcraft "just spooky psychology" and that's actually a little bit how I see it as well.
One aspect of ouija boards that often gets overlooked, it allows the credulous to convince themselves that the board replaces the need for a medium, a person of uncertain trustworthiness, with an external tool they can pretend is neutral and won't taint the "connection".
Come hang out with us in-person! Rosemary’s Baby Screening & Lecture Tickets: www.eventbrite.com/e/rosemarys-baby-a-private-screening-and-lecture-tickets-1039248118097
Hey Taylor! I have always wanted to ask, who is your favorite papa emeritus?
Studying Christianity pushed me into Judaism which brought about a deeper understanding of Satan. (no, I am not kidding)
so excited i can make it!!
What I've never understood is WHY christians pay any attention to the supposed power of Satan to get at them. Do they not believe they are protected by Christ? What do they have to fear?
They're motivated by pride and ego, not fear. They want to be the one to save souls from Satan, but since Satan isn't real and all of the good culprits have already been targeted, they have to settle for "saving" people from gag toys.
It depends on denomination for the most part. Modern non denominational fundamentalist evangelicals have thrown a wrench into that though. But for the denominational Christians their beliefs about demons, the powers of Satan, and whether you can "fall" after being saved differ between sects.
on sort of a meta level, I think it stems from a desire to feel they’re the underdogs fighting against something. they need to feel like they’re not punching down on others all the time and it feeds into their victim complexes (imo)
@@princesstuesday5287 fighting the good war? I think you're onto something.
This is true, but like other people said, it depends on the flavor of Christianity, because like a quote I saw on FB these days: "religion is man made but the men who created it cannot come to an agreement" or something like that.
“Anyone who says this doesn’t work is a liar and a sinner” thats such a good marketing line. If I ever start a business I’m so stealing that.
Okay. I actually cracked up when I saw the christian ouija board thingy. And it got even better when I realized it was done as a *troll.* XD
I was eating a sandwich when the advertisement was playing and wow, that was a bad idea. Jesus was having fun with the cross thing.
It is so OBVIOUSLY a troll.
I kinda want one!
Me too! 😂😂😂😂
@@Ventus_the_HeathenIf I start collecting ouija boards, this will be my second purchase 😂
I am just going to leave something I read in a comment of a John Green video talking about the difference between magic and miracles, "when the in group does it is a miracle, when the out group does it is magic"
Spot on
That's really not even close to the definition.
@@MrSeedi76 Then perhaps you could do something productive and contribute to the conversation with what you consider a more appropriate definition and why. Otherwise I think you're just missing a point.
So hilarious because back in Jesus day if he was real it was the opposite, magic was for the elite, secret society, wealthy cult top 1%, and miracles were the kicked down scraps tossed at the masses to fight over while they kept running their drug cartel /war machine/ insert empire extortion racket
Or it’s like another quote I saw years ago when I left the faith: “When it’s Christianity, it’s White Magic. When it’s not Christianity, it’s Black Magic (and, therefore, evil, demonic, and Satanic)”
Also, they missed out on the opportunity of naming it the Ouijesus Board
Lol I love that
Wish I thought of that 😅
Ouijus or ouisus rhyme better, I think, but otherwise absolutely 😂
Probably a better name as it seems to refer to the same branch of the Holy Trinity.
I used to have tarot decks without believing in any sort of divination powers. They often have very unique and gorgeous themed art (I had an egyptian gilded tarot that was so pretty!). However, the real fun use I found with them was in character creation. By doing a 10-card spread like you'd do with a real person, you can interpret the cards according to the common meanings and build a complex characterization that breaks outside of your normal instincts on what type of characters you want to explore. Some spreads will have inherently contradictory cards, and it becomes a fun challenge to figure out how to explain these clashes.
That sounds like a fun way to make a character personality. That's amazing. I also have tarot without the believe in the powers for the art. My favorite right now is the Cyberpunk deck.
There's actually a couple of RUclips channels specializing in Tarot for Writing Prompts and Tarot for Character Development in Writing Fiction. Several of the bigger "TarotTube" creators on RUclips do NOT use Tarot for divination, including 1 of the biggest teachers of Tarot. I think her Channel us called "The Simple Tarot" and she stresses that she does not do or teach divination, and she doesn't bring religion into it. But it's 1 of the best channels to learn Tarot on RUclips.
as both a witch and a fiction writer, this is such a cool concept!! I've definitely used tarot for writing inspiration before but I'll have to try this out too
Now I'm inspired. I'm In a dead zone so I'll get a deck and see where it gets me.
Don't get into tarot. I got a poltergeist from that . @@charisma-hornum-fries
This reminds me so much of when Brittany Dawn set up an alter in her car to manifest a baby and insisted it wasn't manifesting because manifesting is evil.
I think you mean altar, unless you are talking about multiple personality disorder or something similar.
@@Plethorality good catch, thanks
Christians self-owning and being oblivious to it is always hilarious and enjoyable, especially coming from an ex-Catholic background. 😂
Fellow ex-Catholic here 🙋🏽♀️ and I couldn’t agree more 💯
Ex Catholic Pagan witch agrees
I'm also an ex-catholic.
Is it only funny when Christians do it? Athiests do it on r3ddit all the time 🤷♂️
Is it only funny when Christians do it? These athiests do it all then time too! 😂😂😂
Your take on why deconstructing christians move to witchcraft is spot on! I found out pretty early on in my deconstruction that I thrive on ritual, and earth-based spirituality just works so well for me.
Also thanks for clarifying about tarot and its different uses- I love using tarot for journal prompts and weekly/monthly goal setting.
plus europeans were not christian and isnt native to any region outside of the middle east.
you and me both... and that for me was back in 1997! I've never waivered from my earth centric spirituality path and have only with age grown to really appreciate that being raised Roman Catholic gave me the gift of ritual at the bare minimum. I deconstructed and discarded everything else.
44:23 insert clip of Devon Cole"s "W.I.T.C.H."
@ashishpatel350 When was that? There are a lot of different eras in the various regions.
Genuinely mad that I didn't think of a Holy Spirit Board lol
It's *SO good!* 🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂😂😂
Right?!? Me too! Such an excellent grift. “Guaranteed not to contact demons” LOL
If I only could have come up with it earlier, and be a little less moral 😢 I could have made bank...
As someone who grew up catholic its interesting to see their shocked reaction to the study stating that catholics are likely to believe that objects/physical things can possess divine energies. And then somehow connect it to the New Age movement as if it had not been a central tradition in catholicism for centuries.
who is shocked. I am confused and what is traditional Catholic.
Roman Catholics made up a lot of stuff that is non biblical. Not that I believe the Bible are *facts* but that catholicism is that last place next to America Evangelism to look for Bibical Accuracy.
@@emilwandelTraditional catholics are those who put a lot of emphasis on “traditional practices” which may extend to, but is not limited to, exorcism, belief in posession, belief in spirits’ ability to visit and change things in the world, etc
This is coming from my recollection after 13 years of catholic school, but i’m not an expert. Please take everything with a grain of salt:)
Certain family members of mine were not happy with the pentagrams on my Halloween tree and front door wreath decoration. The blood, skeletons, demon things, etc, didn't seem to trigger them, but the pentagram was too much I guess.
@@kieranczyzyk9064 wrong. those old churches were using pagan symbols as the people that made them were forced to convert. the pentagram has nothing to do with christianity.
@@ashishpatel350 Or, 'Christianity' is 'paganism' with a new cover?
There are many practices that would be considered 'pagan', and reading the Bible, there is a lot of symbolism and astrotheology in it.
@ashishpatel350 the family is wrong or?
I am an atheist and enjoy tarot cards as a form of meditation. I ask questions of myself and then use the cards i select to prompt thoughts about the topic that I explore. I don’t use the cards to predict anything but to encourage me to think more deeply and explore my feelings in a wider capacity.
That sounds good😊 Thanks for the Inspiration. I will use sth else though. Maybe I can use cards from a board game like Dixit?
Tarot cards are definitely fun for a thinking exercise. Lay them out. Try to create a meaning, create a story, from the spread? Can you create a narrative? Can you make it make sense?
The analysis of "satan masquerading as an angel of light" is so good and necessary. Evangelical Christians neglect to defend people from abuse, false doctrines, and dogmatic oppressive perspectives and practices within their own institution.
Right? The second they brought up the masquerading part, I was like... uh hey? Ever seen evangelical churches? Like... if I described a bunch of youngsters dancing to pop music and drinking blood and claiming to speak for God through absurd sounds... wouldn't most evangelicals see that as satanism?
This 💯💯💯
Ok, I LOVE that she started with the spirit board!! My husband and I found it last month on Amazon and about passed out reading the reviews! They were top notch comedy. 😂😂😂
Just read through the one star reviews and OMG, this went so far over these people's heads that critical thinking is now orbiting the earth 😂😂😂
@@polydactylblackcat2218 isn’t it AMAZING?!?! We kept shouting “Jesus Christina’s!!” for hours after reading them.
I am wheezing reading some of these reviews 😆
As someone who owns a tarot deck, I love that thumbnail. I see cards as a thought experiment or meditation aid. The symbolic pictures plug fresh variables into the equation of your brain. Btw, I’ve found symbolism is generally antithetical to fundamentalists.
I like this. I don’t believe in anything supernatural, but I like the idea of Tarot as meditation and I use things like a pentagram and candles to help my ADHD brain settle down and focus - reconnect brain and body. It helps me, especially when I’m getting ready to sit down and write music or do something creative, to have a short ritual with something physical/tangible to use for centering.
Also - occult imagery maks for great music, art, and storytelling!
Never heard the term bibliomancy before, but it’s a good one to know!
I guess that’s basically how Christianity appropriated previous pagan/heathen practices?
They stole Christmas, makes sense they'd steal other things too
I can’t really speak to whether or not it was a practice appropriated from pagan practices. Something I’m learning is that many practices Evangelicals nowadays would call “occultic” or “demonic” were just givens for many early church fathers and writers - like Paul was a mystic. I think many evangelicals would frown on bibliomancy, but they also do believe the Bible can speak directly to their lives even if they don’t think you should randomly flip through pages … so it’s like where do they draw the line, you know?
Using the I Ching (Book of Changes) could be seen as a form of bibliomancy. Biblio=book; the “mancy” suffix generally denotes a kind of divination.
@@theantibot they draw the line anywhere they need to in order to support their arguments. Which is weird because I thought Christians were supposed to have rock solid faith and not to budge from the "proper theology"? They should consider joining sports since they're great at moving goalposts.
It definitely seems like the kind of thing that could arise all on its own without knowing about previous divination practices.
You have a book you trust, you need an outside answer, you flip open that book.
So excited for this! Your commentary is always so nuanced, thorough and insightful. Also, it always makes me laugh to see Drew's incredulous or amused reactions to these clips you show him.
13:41 Can I just say I love your editing? I love that it's minimal and efficient, but i also love the moments you insert from the editing process. There's something really charming about the black and white freeze frame and the smooth voice over and the blink back into the video. Idk I just really love the way you handle those moments
I totally agree❤
GLORY HOLE! I lost my shit with that one. Omg, that was fantastic
Same, I've got hit with such a backlash of hilarity.
Thank for covering allie Beth Stuckey! I firmly believe she's one of the most toxic Christians on the internet and not enough people bring her up
I just remember her from that video she put out yelling at milennials for leaving the church and all the comments were praising milennials for doing so lol
@@ColddirectorAs a member of Generation X, I hope this means that millennials are finally growing up.
When she says the product promises to never contact evil spirits, I’ve got this mental image of customers forming a class action after defective ouija boards summon evil spirits into a church lol
Ouija boards were literally copyright by Hasbro. They're not ancient tools of divination and communication with dark forces, they're the Monopoly Man's creepy weird uncle.
Copyrighted by (though not the first to patent it), but not created by Hasbro. If you want to be really nit-picky, spirit boards (note: not ouija boards) might actually be considered "ancient tools of divination", since a precursor was used in China some thousand years ago (though in the shape of spirit writing). Then spirit boards were popularized in the west during the 1800s. I don't know if they were inspired by the chinese, but it wouldn't surprise me, since a lot of spiritualists and occultists "borrowed" practices from all over asia.
Still, the ouija board is definetley a novelty item, and (unfortunately) not a demon summoning tool.
Back when I was a kid I could not join D&D becasue it was "satanic" I missed out on something cool.
It was a lot of fun. I would have invited you in a second if I could!
Same here, I also wasn't allowed to have friends that were allowed to play. It's crazy the stupid things people believe and do because of fears of ancient mythologies.
I honestly dont understand why so many people linked DND to being “satanic”. It’s just a role playing game with fantasy characters and cool powers. The campaigns can range significantly in terms of subject matter and setting, and especially if you’re making your own homebrew campaign. You could make a horror campaign, a more absurd/comedic toned campaign. You can make a modern campaign where they go to college and learn how to fight and use powers, or a post apocalyptic campaign.
YOU DONT EVEN HAVE TO USE MAGIC! Depending on the race and class your characters are in YOU DONT EVEN HAVE TO INCLUDE SPELLS. I mean, it significantly limits some of the stuff you can do and a lot of the variety you can have among your group, but you *could* theoretically do that.
Heck if you wanted to you could even put your DND characters in a biblical setting.
Same here. The second best time to start d&d is right now though. It's a lot of fun and learning the rules and being able to role-play only gets easier with age. I started playing at 24 during covid and I still play monthly with friends.
@@dengar96 Yep. We really do live in the DnD golden age.
Former Catholic, current Pagan witch here! Your assessment is spot on, your respect and understanding is stellar. Their misinformation is hilarious. 12th century parlour games have never been so spooooooky
Can you imagine how different the world would be if the board game they "used to communicate with the devil" was Monopoly or Risk? LOL.
13:18 I found the “tarot” cards: They are The PSALM cards by Rabbi Robert dos Santos Teixeira. The website does mention that the cards and guide incorporate insights from hinduism, judaism and Jungian psychology, and can be used as a tool for prayer, meditation and as an oracle which I know would raise “red flags” for some conservative Christians
I love how everything is witchcraft to them. Even obviously joke products. Sad for them.
Right?? Imagine moving through life seeing countless benign things as personal attacks…
I saw a video of some ministry saying Minecraft is demonic just because it's popular with kids.
That ad for the Holy Spirit Board had me in stitches
I just started using tarot cards as a self-reflection tool, not a supernatural practice, so I'm glad to find from your video that other people do this too!
To be fair, the "subtlety" here is probably still too much for evangelicals, kinda makes it "subliminal" lol
These videos are extremely educational. I’m currently on my own deconstruction journey
The whole psalm cards is bananas to me because literally in my church there were laminated cards of lesser known prayers for people to use. At what stage does it become the evil card
Loved the video.
As a European it seems weird to me that this level of magical thinking is expressed publicly (and proudly, apparently).
My heart goes out to the rational people in the US having to deal with this on a daily basis. How aren't you all blue in the face from the facepalms is beyond me.
Magical thinking has gone unchecked for too long in the US, and speaking up against it should be a priority. Because, and I hate to tell you this, from outside it seems that the US is sinking into a theocracy.
The worst thing about it is that even if Harris is elected and Trump dies or becomes unable to run for president again, Project 2025 will still exist for the Republicans to implement the next time they get elected. I feel like either way we've reached a fail state for America and Harris can only delay the inevitable even if she's the best president ever.
Trump has enabled the Republicans to shift the Overton window so far that literal N@zi talking points are normalized, and the Democrats don't have the power nor the will to fix that. Democrat leaders have basically been the enabling parent that stays with the abusive parent in a dysfunctional family because they personally aren't being harmed, and they've waited until the abuser (Republicans) has escalated to obvious life-threatening levels of physical abuse and homicidal ideation towards some of their children (citizens who are POC, anyone who can get pregnant, queer people, etc.) to address it.
Sorry if I double-post this, I'm trying to water this down enough so RUclips allows it.
The worst thing about it is that even if Harris is elected and Trump can't run for president again, Project 2025 will still exist for the Republicans to implement the next time they get elected. I feel like either way we've reached a fail state for America and Harris can only delay the inevitable even if she's the best president ever.
Trump has enabled the Republicans to shift the Overton window so far that openly bigoted, antisocial, authoritarian rhetoric is normalized. The Democrats don't have the power nor the will to fix that. Democrat leaders have basically been the enabling parent that stays with the violent parent in a dysfunctional family because they personally aren't being harmed, and they've waited until the violent one (Republicans) has escalated to obvious life-threatening levels of physical harm and homicidal ideation towards some of their children (citizens who are POC, anyone who can get pregnant, queer people, etc.) to address it.
I didn't know what I was going to do today. This vid dropped, and now I know what I'm going to do today. Obsessed with you two, keep doing what you're doing :)
The black and red top is fantastic. You look great!
They think occult fascination is new because they weren’t allowed to watch tv before they were adults.
Nah they just couldn't make money grifting off the fear of religious zealots until recently. They don't care about occult stuff, they just like making money by demonizing it.
56:20 “You don’t need to defeat [so and so’s] belief in a god” is so on point. Believing in a god might correlate with actually pernicious beliefs, and the habits of mind that enable belief in a particular sort of god might have a causal role in problematic beliefs, but the belief in a god, by itself, entails almost nothing, morally or otherwise. Further, if we “defeat” the belief in a god, that will not, by itself, bring about anything good or helpful. So it’s vastly more helpful to focus on “defeating” other things like counterproductive intellectual habits, inhumane morals, and so on.
Using Tarot as tool of self reflection is spot on for me. I mainly got a tarot deck for the art but also to push my self through my fear of purchasing something which i was heavely influenced call evil for so long. Occationally its kind of fun to pull it out if im questioning my self on something but its not something i take too seriously, kind of like personality tests.
Tarot cards were used for games before cartomancy, dating back all the way to 15th century italy. The tarot game is still played where I live in southern France, although admittedly most people will have to google the rules before starting. Also, the lower deck in tarot is just a set of what we use as common playing cards, with the four suits. They're not really separate things, so it's funny to think of one set as inherently demonic
I was always taught growing up that things like fortune telling, reiki, summoning spirits, etc. were real and that the people doing those things had real spiritual giftings (fortune telling = prophetic gift, reiki = healing gift, etc.) but that they were just "tapped into the wrong source" and were "counterfeits of the real thing"... I think a lot of these Christians do realize how similar their practices are to other rituals, but they claim that it's because those rituals/beliefs ALL have power, just only the Christian version is safe and that anything else is just copying from Christianity... not the other way around.
I really admire you guys. You speak so eloquently! Thanks for another great video.
I grew up in evangelical charismatic Christianity, and after I left the faith I've been discovering a lot of similarities between the rituals in my former church and various pagan/esoteric/spiritual practices. Like, manifesting was totally a thing! It was coupled with "proclamation", and the idea was that you'd shout out loud what you wanted to manifest, and believed in it really hard, then god would manifest it for you. If you've ever seen Kenneth Copeland shouting at Covid-19 (instead of setting up ANY contagion safety measures for his church), you get an idea of what that was like. We did the same with faith healing. A whole group of people would lay hands on the sick person and pray, and the prayer leader would finish, saying with a loud voice "in the name of Jesus, you are healed!" (that was a lot of performance pressure on the sick person, ngl). We also had a practice of anointing people, homes and objects with oil (anointing oil from Israel was believed to be especially powerful) to banish evil presences. How is that so different from smoke cleansing or from casting circles of protection around you? In reality I think that many Christian rituals were strongly inspired by pagan rituals as it spread through the Roman empire throughout Europe, while the dogma began demonizing all deities besides Yahweh in the wake of monotheism. But people can just as genuinely commune with Ares as Christians can with Jesus. Same magick.
I cannot express in words how much I want these supposedly Christian talking heads to sit down with an actual Biblical Scholar, or even someone experienced in a theology that isn't their own
Evangelicals have to do a pretty strange dance when you think about it - they want their congregants to study the Bible and immerse themselves in it, enough to get them indoctrinated. But they don’t want them to study it *too* hard or it might bring up some very uncomfortable questions
Or just a Dante scholar who can show them that Dante's biblical fanfic The Divine Comedy is where the idea of Lucifer the fallen angel comes from.
@LordVolkov Pretty sure it's been used in translations for Isaiah 14:12 since long before Dante.
@@squidpope9344 Which translation, from what year?
The 'morning star' referenced in the Torah/old testament is literally the planet Venus, and has been purposefully mistranslated to fall in line with popular Christian culture. When a book is full of vague metaphor and symbolism, it can be twisted to suit any narrative...
@LordVolkov Correct, and you have the Roman mythological figure and its cult to deal with as well
Didn't know how deeply we were going to get into this, I chose a shallow answer for a shallow arena: RUclips Comments
2:16 "we're seeing the occult be glamorized more than in the past" ma'am John Dee was a Court Magician. To Queen Elizabeth the First. In the 1550's. Who claimed to have discovered the language of angels, I'm pretty sure. Yeesh
Not to mention the more recent fear of demonic sources during the Satanic Panic in the 1980s when things like Dungeons and Dragons became popular as well as music, movies and TV shows about devils and other occult topics.
You two make so many good points. It’s been eight years since I started questioning, but my fundamentalist upbringing still makes me nervous when Satan is mentioned. I was always scared of him as a child and even as an adult. Ironic how they use Satan as a scare tactic, yet Christ is supposed to keep you safe. Your puppy is so cute!
25:46 the Crash Course Religion episode “what’s the difference between religion and magic” does a really good job framing it almost exactly as you’re doing
Why do I kinda need one of those holy Spirit boards that's hilarious actually 😂
Then take it to a church prayer meeting.
@@jasonwinters7560 it's just a devotional! 😅
The "glory hole" fully took me out, this guy's a genius 🤣
I grew up Catholic (not practicing anymore lol) and in recent years I’ve realized how much Catholicism overlaps with the occult lol. Ouija boards, tarot, and candles are bad but prayer beads, relics, all the little ‘blessed’ medals and coins in Catholicism are fine. So much of Catholicism is basically spells and rituals, but they still damn the occult. Catholicism promotes mysticism and various spiritual practices like crazy, but condemns anything that’s not specifically Catholic. At the same time as a young Catholic I would have Protestants telling me that mysticism and rosaries and praying to saints is occult
Folk Catholic witches exist! They use the “magical” practices of Catholicism and often focus on the saints rather than Jesus or God
Chaotic Witch Aunt is one and she goes to mass to sneak the Eucharist crackers out under her tongue 😂
I did the bibliomancy thing as a Christian teen without realizing that's what it was, lol.
It was definitely encouraged from the pulpit.
to the card thing: tarot cards have a specific structure to them, 78 cards, 4 suits, 22 major arcana. oracle cards are basically anything. the psalm cards look just like... psalm cards, sure they could be used for divination but so can any other oracle or affirmation or such cards! are we demonizing playing cards now?
to be fair, many Christian groups have banned playing cards in the past 🥴
Thank you for this! I wish I would’ve explained more that Tarot cards are a specific playing card deck. Allie and Hilary just see tarot and oracle cards as being synonymous. Following their logic then any and all playing cards should be avoided. There’s actually fundamental Christians who believe this, but I’m not sure if Allie does.
@@theantibotomg that’s batshit
@@theantibot yeah that is what I expected, I would more be surprised if they knew the differences! would they also be against a regular deck of cards then too...? there's a way to use a regular deck like the minor arcana in tarot after all
Considering my Mennonite grandpa won’t use “casino cards” aka normal playing cards due to the association with gambling, yes, playing cards are absolutely demonized in certain groups
As someone who has left the church, I appreciate both of your content SO much ❤🎉
I REALLY just went to go to my fundie family & play with the Holy Spirit board while singing ✨Holy Spirit activate, Holy Spirit active, activate✨ just to see the look on their faces. 😂😂
Was not looking at the screen for the first fifteen minutes and genuinely thought there was only ONE woman talking in the video. Are these women mass-produced?!
Individuality is not liked in high control groups
Okay it wasn't just me! I'm sitting here like, "which one of these women is which? They look the same to me."
As a super white blonde woman I feel attacked 🤣🤣
Sarcasm. I totally agree with you. I’m a born and raised atheist but hate that I absolutely would blend in with these women.
@@ka8544 So would I, so let's feel bad together
The conservative white woman factory is right next to the Blue Bell factory. Their tours are very informative.
42:18 I think in 2024, political faction has mostly supplanted religious theology as the key source of identity and systems of belief, so conservative evangelicals feel much closer kinship to conservative Mormons than they do to liberal evangelicals. I think this also helps explain why it doesn’t really bother them that Trump isn’t meaningfully Christian. Or at least, not meaningfully motivated by Christian theology.
I think this is my favorite video of yours that I've seen.
When I left the church in my late teens / early twenties, I went straight into spiritualism and witchcraft, which then further evolved into general philosophy and the understanding that all of these practices are psychological and social tools that mirror one another in so many ways. I dont believe in "magic" anymore, but I do believe in the power of symbolism, self-reflection, and world-building that are an inherent function of ceremony and ritual.
Religion, spirituality, philosophy, psychology - are all expressions of the human mind and the cultures we co-create. Whenever Christians criticize something from "the culture" that they themselves practice, or convince themselves they are somehow seperate from the rest of the world, I chortle. No one lives in a vacuum - their entire belief system is a product of culture. And prayer, meditation, spells... they're all expressions of the same thing - cultivating an attitude or narrative within yourself with the hope or intention that it will be reflected in some external way in your life - whether that be a god or the universe responding to you, or just you altering your own thoughts and behaviors.
13:28 all cards used to do divination/connecting with a spirit or deity count as oracle decks. Within that is tarot, which has specific cards and a set of layouts and traditions associated with it. The scripture cards and affirmations can absolutely be called oracle decks, she just doesn’t understand that that’s what they are
Allie and Hillary taking the holy spirit board seriously is like taking the onion as serious journalism
Wow. When Allie says "Satan is not a respecter of persons," that's a shocking misquote from the Bible. The verse she's alluding to (Romans 2:11) actually says "GOD is not a respecter of persons".
The marketing for that board is golden 😂 I was hollering
Such a good video! I particularly loved the discussion regarding Western Esotericism, I actually don't know a lot about that topic and now I want to check it out! I agree so much about learning about the history of religion vs. learning how to debunk religion, I think it is a way more healthy way to explore your relationship with faith. I've recently been obsessed with platonism and how it affected biblical thinking
Greetings from Southern Ontario Canada. I just found your channel. I am watching your vids on MLM's, and I find them very refreshing. I am smart enough to have never fallen for their bullshit from any of them I have encountered and I am very glad you have posted informative vids on them. I have a deep hatred for scammers and people alike. Subbed and gave ya likes.
I turned to witchcraft, specifically heathenry, after I left Christianity because of the focus on divine women. It evolved over time as i gravitated towards gender fluid or gender non-conforming gods as my own relationship with gender changed. I've felt so much more comfortable in my skin after finding community with people who accept women, queer, and trans people on the same level as cis straight men.
But Whats the point to be with people who accept women when not even You want to accept that you're a woman? You're not even able to accept yourself - this is coming from an ex spiritual new ager
You both are really good psychics lol, every thought or comment I had about the video, you guys talked about it just as I thought about commenting the same thing 😂
I love it when you drop a video
The ad took my breath away 😂
Christians acting like "manifesting is wiitchcraft" while playing like The Secret isn't witchcraft when it's literally manifestation theology is so hypocritical.
They’re 100% aware of what they’re doing. That’s why they strategically leave out the information that makes it obvious that it’s satire.
Very excited to watch this while folding up the spooky season shirts we just got at my job- I work at a blood bank and we just got a bunch of vampire themed shirts for donors heheh
Nice! As someone living with a chronic leukemia I just want to say thank you for working the blood bank. I needed a transfusion years ago when I was in the hospital when I first got diagnosed. It took four hours to find a good match for me since I have B- blood. I mean, it also wasn't an emergency situation so of course there was no need to rush. Having stores of blood is SO important, especially for B- and AB- types since they're rare. I urge anyone reading this to look into donating blood. You will literally save lives with your pint!
I never comment on youtube videos, but as someone who found witchcraft/magic immediately during and after leaving Christianity, and as an audhd person, I will say personally I didn’t become a witch because I was looking for ritual…I happen to have always struggled with ritual and faith practice. I started practicing because it felt more natural to how I had always interacted with the earth and nature. I always talked to stars and trees and flowers, so I just keep doing that. I always cooked, so now I just cook while setting intentions. I always loved rocks, so I continue to collect the ones I feel drawn to emotionally per usual. I have a respect and love for the earth that Christianity taught me was evil and a worship of false gods, so now I know I can love the earth and this life with everything in me, down to the herbs I use to cook and the feathers I find on the grass. To me, that emotional connection and awe is magic, and none of it has to do with the religion I left or the god I used to worship and its demands, but everything to do with who I have always been.
Everyone’s journey out of Christianity is different and my partner is a hardcore atheist who doesn’t see what I do as anything supernatural. Some would say I don’t practice witchcraft, just mindfulness. I decided that the way I live and see the world happens to fall into what I term witchcraft, and I moved on from there. This is obviously just my personal experience and I wanted to share it in the discussion for anyone else who might relate
Tarot has a definite structure-56 cards divided into 4 suits of Ace through 10 plus four face cards, and 22 Trumps or Major Arcana numbered 0-21 or 1-21 plus an unnumbered card. Tarot started as a card game and still is especially in Europe. The church originally banned tarot (along with dice and dominoes) because it was used for gambling. It existed as a game for centuries before being used for fortune-telling or as a metaphysical tool. People do also use standard 52 playing card decks for fortune-telling.
Nice I'm a teltall(Owen) fan too!! Love it when things come together!! (Been watching A team again)
This is a super fun episode for me as a SASS (Skeptical Agnostic/Atheist Science Seeking) witch. I absolutely use Tarot/Oracle cards and many other forms of "divination" as a means to self-reflection and catharsis. I don't believe in the supernatural AT ALL and yet I still practice witchcraft because it enriches my life and adds dimension to it. It's really fun, and there are actually quite a few of us!
Let's play Bible Roulette! Open your Bible to a random page and point to a random verse, then do what it says. Last one to get arrested wins!
Just want to say I love your vids and especially enjoy your and Drew's dynamic ❤️ Happy spooky season to you both! 👻🎃
3:45, the baptized Ouija board is arguably quite biblical. For example, in Acts the apostles cast lots to see who God wished to replace Judas. That's called sortilege and cleromancy.
2:04 homegirl was NOT alive in the Victorian era
As a self-described athiest witch, you did a great job explaining witchcraft and why/how people can be attracted to it. Thank you! ❤💚💜💙💛
I had never thought of so many Christian practices as divination before 👀 but it's exactly the same!! Thanks for a great video!
I’m a witch and tarot reader, tarot has helped my anxiety a lot and the whole purpose for me to be a witch is to help my self-empowerment and esteem as well as others. Plus there is many people who are catholic that practice folk traditions that can seem to be magic.
I find the blend of Christian and magical traditions so interesting to me as a witch, especially because I know folk Catholic witches that still use the saints and blend the magic traditions with certain aspects of a Catholicism.
Hell, I have products from a Ukrainian witch that she snuck in and got blessed by an Orthodox priest when they were blessing items for the dead.
In areas where Christianity has been a long time the folk religious or spiritual practices kept on in ways that appeased the people.
I guess I fall into the category of deconstructed Christian turned witchy tarot reader lol. I only read for myself and my sister who is also into them. We have talked at length that tarot cards are essentially daily devotionals lol it’s hilarious to me that they get so uptight about it now. I find meaning in them because it makes me feel closer to the universe and grounded in myself❤ also tell me that “gift of prophecy” isn’t divination. It’s even biblical! 😂
Love this for you!
Interesting story, when I was twenty years old a friend bought a set of tarot cards at a pawnshop. He asked me to help him use them. He read the instructions out loud and I followed them.
Long story short he read my future. And now decades later I can confirm that everything he said came true.
I’m so glad you brought up the witch craft and rituals stuff. I hadn’t realized this exactly what I did 😮
It's always weird when this sort of fearmongering/discouraging certain things "even if it's a parody" happens.
"Well, some people won't know it's parody." It's like they're trying to play the part of parents "protecting" their kids. It's a strangely prevalent form of micromanaging of other peoples' lives.
It's not surprising that you now have generations of folks who got so used to that kind of rhetoric--"I'm just trying to protect you, so you should listen to me"--that they almost solely use these types of media/influencers to then form their opinion on almost anything. Then it's no wonder we have hoards of people believing harmful/ridiculous/made-up things because they've been made to be so afraid of *everything* that they'll just believe things blindly because "well, they say they're trying to protect me, so I guess they know the best."
I mean, the amount of times I've heard someone say something along the lines of, "Oh, we weren't allowed to do/watch/read/play ______ growing up, because someone at church told my parents it was bad/demonic/evil/witchcraft" is crazy. And guess what followed that statement up every time: "They didn't research it themselves, though."
Like, girl, the Bible says "don't be anxious for anything" and you turn around and funnel that anxiety and fear right back into the church?
Telltale shout out! Love that two of my favourite channels are connected like that.
After I left Christianity, I wanted absolutely nothing to do with anything spiritual. When I stopped trying to believe in god, that spiritual hole filled and sealed up. So much more simple.
Bummer! In Austin for an event, but heading back before the movie events! Have fun!
That christ jesus board... good lord... it's an amazing commercial.
Aw so cool! Glad you guys sold out the original event! I couldnt attend... much too far away haha
Why do these type of Christians never understand when they are being trolled??? And why do they STILL believe ouija boards are demonic?! 😩😩
Leaving a comment for the algorithm. Great video
Tarot is actually a lot more specific than just "cards for divination". That definition is that of oracle decks, which tarot falls under. But tarot requires the four suites and a certain number of arcana. Oracles are more varied.
So excellently thought-through and presented Taylor!! 😊💜 as usual such quality content, chef’s kiss!
I got my ticket! Can’t wait to see you guys.
Yay! We’re excited!
As someone who grew up southern baptist, and similar cause my dad is new age (which is insane). I myself am a Wiccan and pagan, never really been Christian even when I was little. Went to church and watched stuff happen, and go down. It’s funny to me cause “witches” have never been deceiving. Most I have met have been super upfront, very forward about themselves. Compared to a lot of Christian’s who backpedal constantly on arguments (If we are getting nitty gritty) at least. During the time I was going to new age church with my dad, it felt like a cult. Literally, they had their own version of the Bible, and a book that felt really bad to read that they were giving to the kids. It was a book about puritans, it was literally saying bloodshed was good cause it killed witches, and was talking good about slavery. Among other things, I read through it and told my younger brother. Do not read it, it was really bad even for me. The fact that was going to kids and it was highly descriptive and persecutory got me worried. It incited violence, that is my biggest concern.
25:58 In the bible, people would cast lots to get messages from God, which is literally just an old divination ritual
I like how the Holy Spirit Board uses a planchette in the shape of the thing that they used to kill their lord and savior.
It's people like these who are responsible for things like warning labels on Tide Pods because they didn't read the part on the packaging where it says that it will KILL you if you eat them. Also, does it surprise anyone that they read portions of the Holy Spirit Board's website, but not the part that doesn't server their own narrative, kind of like how they might do the same for another book?
Oh, yeah, he does forbid divination and such things like in Numbers 5:11-31. I wonder about her clothing and if the fabric is mixed or if she eats shellfish which is an abomination. Oh, by the way, for that Bible passage I referenced, if you know, you know.
Heck, there are forms of divination that specifically use the Bible. Ok, you mentioned later bibliomancy already. I like how she also mentions "new age" stuff. The idea of manifestation comes from books of the Bible where the Gospels say that if you have the faith the size of a mustard seed and you tell the mountain to move from here to there, the mountain would move.
I would also point out that setting one's intentions, then invoking the name of a powerful being and attempting to manifest your intended outcome using ritual and invocation of that being's power is either casting a spell or praying.
Astrology is BS, which is why there were 3 random weird guys giving stuff to a baby because they walked towards a star. They weren't wise, they were crackpots using techniques that the Bible condemns. Is the practice of astrology evil and these 3 men were invoking dark practices or were they wise or kings?
i have been DYING for someone to do more vids on allie beth. id love a big deep dive of her videos, history, etc. i havent sat through any of her content personally, so im not sure if theres enough meat for the kind of vid im imagining.
I identify as both an occultist, pagan, and a skeptic. I'm closer to an atheist than to a theist, but I have some beliefs that I guess one doesn't have as an atheist, so I mostly call myself "generally spiritual" if someone asks. For me, things don't have to be so black and white. It was one spiritual creator who called witchcraft "just spooky psychology" and that's actually a little bit how I see it as well.
Couldn't have worded it better myself! ❤
@@evilandproud ❤️
One aspect of ouija boards that often gets overlooked, it allows the credulous to convince themselves that the board replaces the need for a medium, a person of uncertain trustworthiness, with an external tool they can pretend is neutral and won't taint the "connection".