_"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." - Sun Tzu_ Conventional warfare has always been a Romulan weak spot ever since the Earth-Romulan war ended. While in psyops, it is indeed better to break the enemies' will to fight in the first place. Beware the moving shadows in the night sky, for the talons of a vicious raptor may swoop down upon you.
I chose the Romulan faction in star trek online because in the igbo tribe we have a saying. "Beware, that which moves in darkness is always stronger." Seems to fit hand in hand with the threat the Romulans pose to the rest of the quadrant with their superior stealth and ambush tactics.
Is it related to , if a Warbird is cloaked and crossed the neutral zone, but no one saw it, did the Romulan really blew up the Federation space station or was it just an accident.
The Raider part of the doctrine reminds me of German U-boats from World War 1 and early World War II. The Allies didn't know where the U-boats were but the moment their ships left a ports they consider themselves in enemy Waters until the team at fletchley Park cracked the code of enigma and everyone developed sonar
I really enjoy Beta canon videos because it just adds so many more perspectives on the Star Trek universe and your additions of ships and doctrines and overall stories add to the enjoyment of Star Trek. Thank you very much for that.
Love this series, and particularly love this explanation of the strategy behind Romulus' incursions on the Klingons between Tomed and the fall of the Duras. Have to offer a map correction though: the star that became the victim of Soran's weapon is named "Amargosa", with an R, named after the desert river.
So much focus on that border region makes me ask... Klingon Civil War mini-series please? Also I'd be tempted to use this to use and improve on the UK's nascent strategic raiding strategy, completing the circle of art and life imitating each other.
As opposed to the Alfred Mahan's naval doctrine of having a large fleet deployed around the world with naval bases around the world. In the Star Trek universe, that sounds like Star Fleet.
This sounds like a very easy doctrine to mess up, since it requires a very long term commitment to a slow, careful program of destabilisation that is easy to mess up if you just push a little too hard. It also sounds like a strategy that really only a race like the Romulans or possibly the Vulcans could use, because of their very long lives, where you can have high-command officers, who will stay in office for a century or more, to keep that strategy going and keep it stable. It'd be really easy for an aggressive or over zealous younger officer to screw up and poke the bear too hard.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Which is not helped by the Tal Shiar and Navy hating one another and the number of Tal Shiar officers who are insane with paranoia
In the TNG episode Redemption, the Romulans supported the Duras fsction during the Klingon Civio War by deploying a fleet of D'Dedrix class warlords hidden in essentially a large cloaking foeld.
An appropriate answer to this strategy by UFP/SF would be to withdraw from the cloaking element of the treaty comming out of thr Tomed Incident. SF should paint a quadrant wide visual of each attack as a treaty violation, post Tomed. Lobbying a mutual defense pack with the Klingons can't hurt either. Every SF ship being cloak enabled would turn the tables on this straregy. Also, in Canon, when were the Sonus Nets deployed? Was this before TNG era, or before the late 2350s
Establishing a "presence" generates uncertainty and increased risk for the opponent. The enemy needs to allocate resouces to protect assets. This denies the enemy the ability to concentrate, forcing them to disperse their forces.
Hey venom Geek, looking at the expanded universe and at games such as Star trek armada 1,2,3 and Star trek online, do you think you could do something like a Mini fleet doctrine for the borg? There is usually a lot more than just cubes and spheres in most depictions of the collective
I really like your channel, smooth use of simple and appropriate visuals, great writing with an imperfectly human delivery. I don't mean that in a bad way, it just feels very natural. The lost era in such an interesting timeframe, and I like the divergence of from the D7 type ships into the Klingon and Romulan design lineages. What you've clearly pointed out is the doctrine that informs those design choices. Your videos with Drachinifel were really good, you had great chemistry. I hope you and all your subscribers had an amazing xmas and have a great new year.
This sort of vid really makes you realize why you never see the romulans risk all out war with the Feds during the next gen era, when the Tachyon detection grid was up.
Predictable is good. Mad ( mutual assure destruction) one move to ascalate or deescalate. Is easy read .it produces mirroring actions. . Tomed is quite similar to the cudan missile crisis. For example. ( quarantine, / blockade) two fleets. Ect
In my opinion in a way this is even more inflammatory towards your neighbors but I agree in the long term it makes the prospect of war not a very likable idea but it also make everyone hate you sooooo not always the best choice in my opinion
So these incidents of romulan incursions help tie the loose ends of the klingon civil war. This being made far easier by the factioned klingon great houses. Great insight
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Starfleet and the Klingon Empire carried on business as usual. They officially didn't cross their respective neutral zones but by the same token the Romulan's didn't exactly scare them off from putting bases and colonies on the borders and doing the odd clandestine excursions into the neutral zone either
@@tullyDT Never mind how the Klingons were implied to be hitting the Romulans back occasionally i.e. they found out about Ja'rod being a traitor because they captured a Romulan ship.
Don't see how this one can work against a near peer unless you completely (or close to it) win with the psyops angle before you ever engage militarily at any official level. If the enemy are the Feds or Klingons and you appear on their side of the neutral zone and attack: war or worse (eg Khitomer attack cementing the Fed-Klingon alliance against you where before you might be able to play one at a time). Your ship blows up a freighter going from Vulcan to Andoria, or where ever, your war bird is deep in enemy territory, you can't play the, " we went off course for half of the Federation and then when we came out of warp...and cloak...we accidentally blew up the first thing we saw," card. I can see how something like the Cardassian government backing their settlers from the shadows against Federation colonies can work. They have the, "they don't act in the name of the Cardassian people, we would never condone such acts of terrorism" plausible deniability lies to work with. Though should also qualify that this game will probably work best against an enemy like the Federation. Sure you can make chaos and mistrust with psyops, but if the damage done that way isn't extremely deep/permanent and you then attack , it would probably reunite whatever divisions you made and may even out you as the cause of the rift in the first place, making all out war a more preferable option for the Fed/Klingons against you. IE if the Tal Shiar were able to fan the flame the old conflict of the Vulcans and Andorians back to life but don't get either to leave the Federation and then have a Romulan fleet attack Tellar Prime or Earth, they will probably ignore whatever conflict was stoked between them to join in the defense of the place that is being attacked, possibly discovering it was the Tal Shiar responsible for the conflict in the first place, and at that point you may have just pushed the Feds past their normal we want to talk and be nice phase to the call up the Klingons, we're doing this phase. Bottom line, its still a game of brinkmanship no matter how much jargon you throw in: you have to hope what actions you take against the near peer either will be totally unnoticed until it's too late and/or hope to hell you actually know what their response will be to your provocations.
Are you *sure* installing a puppet is quite difficult? Seems like the United States shadow government was able to do that quite easily for about the past 20 or so years (granted, it was in countries that couldn't compete with our military to oust the puppet, but still...).
The left said Trump is a Russian Puppet. We know that is a lie. On the other hand, China sponsored BLM . BLM has no chance of running our government, but it did cause alot of chaos. Most of the fake stuff Russia and China paid for was not to support one candidate, but cause a lot of anger in the public.
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
_"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." - Sun Tzu_
Conventional warfare has always been a Romulan weak spot ever since the Earth-Romulan war ended. While in psyops, it is indeed better to break the enemies' will to fight in the first place.
Beware the moving shadows in the night sky, for the talons of a vicious raptor may swoop down upon you.
I chose the Romulan faction in star trek online because in the igbo tribe we have a saying. "Beware, that which moves in darkness is always stronger." Seems to fit hand in hand with the threat the Romulans pose to the rest of the quadrant with their superior stealth and ambush tactics.
Jolan Tru. i keep hearing you refer to the Kitomer massacre. I have never heard of such event.
I have heard the glorious Kitomer liberation
5:30 So, if I understand it correctly, the Romulans are basically using Schrödinger's Warbird.
Is it related to , if a Warbird is cloaked and crossed the neutral zone, but no one saw it, did the Romulan really blew up the Federation space station or was it just an accident.
let me just say the art work is top notch. I love that bird of prey motif on the underside of the Nova
do you mean the Nova? or one of the new ones.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 @0:20
The Raider part of the doctrine reminds me of German U-boats from World War 1 and early World War II. The Allies didn't know where the U-boats were but the moment their ships left a ports they consider themselves in enemy Waters until the team at fletchley Park cracked the code of enigma and everyone developed sonar
It might be a fun exorcise to create a 25th century Romulan Fleet as if the super nova never happened.
I like this idea
I really enjoy Beta canon videos because it just adds so many more perspectives on the Star Trek universe and your additions of ships and doctrines and overall stories add to the enjoyment of Star Trek. Thank you very much for that.
Cool video. And it looks like you will be hitting 20k soon! Congrats on that!
Fingers crossed.
Love this series, and particularly love this explanation of the strategy behind Romulus' incursions on the Klingons between Tomed and the fall of the Duras.
Have to offer a map correction though: the star that became the victim of Soran's weapon is named "Amargosa", with an R, named after the desert river.
So much focus on that border region makes me ask... Klingon Civil War mini-series please?
Also I'd be tempted to use this to use and improve on the UK's nascent strategic raiding strategy, completing the circle of art and life imitating each other.
As opposed to the Alfred Mahan's naval doctrine of having a large fleet deployed around the world with naval bases around the world. In the Star Trek universe, that sounds like Star Fleet.
This sounds like a very easy doctrine to mess up, since it requires a very long term commitment to a slow, careful program of destabilisation that is easy to mess up if you just push a little too hard. It also sounds like a strategy that really only a race like the Romulans or possibly the Vulcans could use, because of their very long lives, where you can have high-command officers, who will stay in office for a century or more, to keep that strategy going and keep it stable. It'd be really easy for an aggressive or over zealous younger officer to screw up and poke the bear too hard.
Yeah it's also very reliant on inter-departmental communication the navy needs to know what action is appropriate for the tal shiars goal
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Which is not helped by the Tal Shiar and Navy hating one another and the number of Tal Shiar officers who are insane with paranoia
Superb as always!
The Romulans are my favorite
In the TNG episode Redemption, the Romulans supported the Duras fsction during the Klingon Civio War by deploying a fleet of D'Dedrix class warlords hidden in essentially a large cloaking foeld.
An appropriate answer to this strategy by UFP/SF would be to withdraw from the cloaking element of the treaty comming out of thr Tomed Incident. SF should paint a quadrant wide visual of each attack as a treaty violation, post Tomed. Lobbying a mutual defense pack with the Klingons can't hurt either. Every SF ship being cloak enabled would turn the tables on this straregy. Also, in Canon, when were the Sonus Nets deployed? Was this before TNG era, or before the late 2350s
Establishing a "presence" generates uncertainty and increased risk for the opponent. The enemy needs to allocate resouces to protect assets. This denies the enemy the ability to concentrate, forcing them to disperse their forces.
Exactly it forces the target to act defensively
Hey venom Geek, looking at the expanded universe and at games such as Star trek armada 1,2,3 and Star trek online, do you think you could do something like a Mini fleet doctrine for the borg?
There is usually a lot more than just cubes and spheres in most depictions of the collective
Yeah I don't know how I feel about that
I really like your channel, smooth use of simple and appropriate visuals, great writing with an imperfectly human delivery. I don't mean that in a bad way, it just feels very natural. The lost era in such an interesting timeframe, and I like the divergence of from the D7 type ships into the Klingon and Romulan design lineages. What you've clearly pointed out is the doctrine that informs those design choices. Your videos with Drachinifel were really good, you had great chemistry. I hope you and all your subscribers had an amazing xmas and have a great new year.
This sort of vid really makes you realize why you never see the romulans risk all out war with the Feds during the next gen era, when the Tachyon detection grid was up.
Woohoo!
🖖😎👍Very cool and nicely done and very informative indeed 👌.
Take a shot every time Venom says strategic
More for me to tell Jordy since they're stealing ships from the Museum he wants that old D7
Predictable is good. Mad ( mutual assure destruction) one move to ascalate or deescalate. Is easy read .it produces mirroring actions. . Tomed is quite similar to the cudan missile crisis. For example. ( quarantine, / blockade) two fleets. Ect
Cheers
I wish you could do other species/ nations fleet doctrine during this time period as well.
Maybe... eventually...
In my opinion in a way this is even more inflammatory towards your neighbors but I agree in the long term it makes the prospect of war not a very likable idea but it also make everyone hate you sooooo not always the best choice in my opinion
The Klingons used this tactic prior to the first battle of Deep Space Nine.
I'd be very interested in your thoughts on how to counter this Deep Raiding Doctrine :D
If anyone is interested in how one power can subvert a culture without firing a shot look up Yuri Bezmenov interviews. Most enlightening.
Yeah that's what I based "the Colonels" lines on in the kithomer massacre
So these incidents of romulan incursions help tie the loose ends of the klingon civil war. This being made far easier by the factioned klingon great houses. Great insight
sorry I have to ask. What was that red cartoon figure all about?.
It's a reference to a mobile game called among us. Popular with the youth.
"Lost" Era..with a massive amount of work about it. Ironic title?
So TOS: Balance of Terror is an example of this doctrine, but the finale of Strange New Worlds season 1 misunderstands the Romulans completely.
Not at all. There was a completely different doctrine at work there. I've done a video on that
The Star Fleet ships are that more advanced that why have they not developed their own cloaking device and more importantly detection systems.
France if they just kept making cruiser submarines.
Ah yes, the "I am in your walls" doctrine
17:05 tl;dr: Invent Social Media and watch a society slowly destroy itself.
😐
The Romulans had a great strategy they were just shit at implementing it
what do you mean?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Starfleet and the Klingon Empire carried on business as usual. They officially didn't cross their respective neutral zones but by the same token the Romulan's didn't exactly scare them off from putting bases and colonies on the borders and doing the odd clandestine excursions into the neutral zone either
@@tullyDT Never mind how the Klingons were implied to be hitting the Romulans back occasionally i.e. they found out about Ja'rod being a traitor because they captured a Romulan ship.
So... The lost era Romulan doctrine is emotional damage?
In school they tell kids that bullies lash out because they themselves feel vulnerable. Feels like the interstellar version of that!
Yeah they say mean things over Twitter ;)
Don't see how this one can work against a near peer unless you completely (or close to it) win with the psyops angle before you ever engage militarily at any official level. If the enemy are the Feds or Klingons and you appear on their side of the neutral zone and attack: war or worse (eg Khitomer attack cementing the Fed-Klingon alliance against you where before you might be able to play one at a time). Your ship blows up a freighter going from Vulcan to Andoria, or where ever, your war bird is deep in enemy territory, you can't play the, " we went off course for half of the Federation and then when we came out of warp...and cloak...we accidentally blew up the first thing we saw," card. I can see how something like the Cardassian government backing their settlers from the shadows against Federation colonies can work. They have the, "they don't act in the name of the Cardassian people, we would never condone such acts of terrorism" plausible deniability lies to work with. Though should also qualify that this game will probably work best against an enemy like the Federation. Sure you can make chaos and mistrust with psyops, but if the damage done that way isn't extremely deep/permanent and you then attack , it would probably reunite whatever divisions you made and may even out you as the cause of the rift in the first place, making all out war a more preferable option for the Fed/Klingons against you. IE if the Tal Shiar were able to fan the flame the old conflict of the Vulcans and Andorians back to life but don't get either to leave the Federation and then have a Romulan fleet attack Tellar Prime or Earth, they will probably ignore whatever conflict was stoked between them to join in the defense of the place that is being attacked, possibly discovering it was the Tal Shiar responsible for the conflict in the first place, and at that point you may have just pushed the Feds past their normal we want to talk and be nice phase to the call up the Klingons, we're doing this phase. Bottom line, its still a game of brinkmanship no matter how much jargon you throw in: you have to hope what actions you take against the near peer either will be totally unnoticed until it's too late and/or hope to hell you actually know what their response will be to your provocations.
Gaslighting Galactic Champions of the Lost Era, Romulams.
Are you *sure* installing a puppet is quite difficult? Seems like the United States shadow government was able to do that quite easily for about the past 20 or so years (granted, it was in countries that couldn't compete with our military to oust the puppet, but still...).
The left said Trump is a Russian Puppet. We know that is a lie. On the other hand, China sponsored BLM . BLM has no chance of running our government, but it did cause alot of chaos. Most of the fake stuff Russia and China paid for was not to support one candidate, but cause a lot of anger in the public.
Yeah the real question comes when you pull away that military presence
But with warbirds the occupied population will never know weather or not they are being watched
Gaslighting Galactic Champions of the Lost Era, Romulams.