What is desire? Is desire awakened by external objects? | J. Krishnamurti
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2024
- Saanen, Switzerland 1983 - Question #1 from Question and Answer Meeting #3
'What is desire? Is desire awakened by external objects?'
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"It is the inattentive that is a slave to desire." That sums it up right there. Great video.
starlitshadows ya :)
But... we can have desires, right? Like eating dessert, pass an exam, go to a concert..?
Sums what up?
Summed up:
You create an Image for yourself which is externalised as an desire, and you want this image to be fulfilled, which your thoughts have created.
Can desire be controlled?
If you control your desire, the controller is another form of desire.
I desire to achieve some kind of so called spiritual experience, and the controller wants to achieve that. Therefore he is another form of desire.
Both the controller and the controlled are the activity of desire, these is the movement of desire.
But, what is the cause of desire?
3 step process
1. Perception of something leads to 2. sensation of it, this sensation is 3.{instantly} wrapped by though thus is leading to an image, which ends in the desire for that image
The solution:
Slow this process of desire down and watch the movement at point 3. With full attention you can transform the instant wrapping of the sensation into an gap in which desire can not appear, it just has no importance.
Their is no question of control, but of seeing what happens slowed down, step by step.
It is the inattentive that slaves us to desire.
Got it?
I tried to understand this. What I found is, sensation occours before perception. Sensation is when, Sensory organs send signal to brain. In this case an image. Perception is when brain tries to make sense of the signal by tapping into memory, knowledge, experience and perceives it as a Car, red, expensive, affordable. Then another factor (maybe thought or intellect) judges the utility of it w.r.t the genetic programmed needs of "survival or reproduction". If it is useful, then desire and emotional attachment follows. Wrapping of desire happens at the evaluation phase, no ? How to stop evaluation when we r genetically programmed to do so ?
Thanks for the recap. should have read this first instead of watching the video for 20 mins. :)
I understand the process but still dont see a solution with just slowing it down. do you recommend a book or other teacher that explains this process in more detail or offers an alternative solution.
This only answers the problem partly. Isn't wanting to observe the process of desire also desire?
Let's say that I forget about the previous argument, what is the endgame after you observe desire? Aren't your actions caused by desire? What should you do or not do once you've observed it?
Thanks
@@Karthik-yy6up I understand what your saying but I think there’s also doing things for tha sake of doing them. Not sure if I can explain but he just observes for example if you just pause and watch your thoughts your not necessarily desiring for something ur kind of just watching it like a tv show with commercials , the commercials are the desire in this example. You don’t necessarily analyze the hell out of each commercial but rather just watch it take place. In the end you just are aware of another form of desire. Also if you go with that argument anyone can drive themselves miserable like I did. At the end of the day the observation muscle should become automatic like how are bodies function because we don’t necessarily desire for our organs to do what they do. They just happened to do it~ thoughtform
Desire is memory of pleasure.
Fear is the memory of pain.
What an experience it is just listening to him....He is a mirror .
It's also need a great deal of attention to go deep in His talks.
I have read almost all books of J.K. and have enjoyed them .Perhaps that is why these videos entertain me so much.Once I start a video just I cannot stop it till the end !! My thanks to the publisher of these videos....
Shirish chandra Pujari can u suggest me a good book of him sir?
Thank you :)
You can read Freedom From The Known......or.....Life Ahead etc.But I like one of his books on Education .In that book JK speaks about Education and you can find why he is called Modern Buddha by some critics.My friend ,actually JK has written one or two books only .One of his written books is The Note Book .It is a diary only where he has he has written his daily thoughts.Most of his books are his speeches or discussions only which has been cpmpiled by others.But the Notebook has been written by him and it reveals his sensitive and artistic nature as well as his sharp and unique perception.
Any portion of JK's speech on Education is really revolutionary and enlightening where he discards the Guru Shishya tradition.Also his speeches on Meditation are very enlightening.If you find any article of JK on Education and Meditation just tead it.Ofcourse you can find his biography written by Pupul Jaykar.
If you want to know more about JK you have to know about Adyar Theosophical society and Anie Besant and Lead Beater.Very interesting stories.I think you can find many information through internet also.With best wishes.
Yeah! I remember another book of JK i.e The Impossible Question....I remember these names because they are unique names.Otherwise you cannot remember which content was in which book of JK.They are almost same .I read JK in between 1973 and 1983.
This is the best video i have ever seen..... Man what an amazing master he is❤❤❤❤
We are desire itself. It's a characteristic of human nature that distinguish us form other beings. So we create objects such as cars etc, in our minds as objects of desire from a sensation within in us that corresponds with desire, in order to fulfill that sensation. Desire is created in the mind. so, how can we not desire if it is the same mind that created desire? Just as another poster said, you have to watch the process of how desire was created in the first place. You slow the process down to get a better look. It happens so fast that we don't see how the process of desire happens.
Marvellous, watching the whole process, slowed down. Perfect happens on its own, in fast is mechanical
perception > contact > sensation > thought takes over > image forms > desire to attain / frustration not being able to attain
This is a good illustration of how K describes the everyday process of meditation: transformation through slowing down and cultivating attention.
Attention > Awareness > Acceptance > Freedom.
This is also the process of 12 step recovery.
Whatever he is saying makes perfect sense. But... There is always a "But". During the situation when we become angry, it is the thought that has a lightning effect and takes a toll on the body and mind. The desire to defend ourselves is so intense that there is no time to be attentive. If anyone seeing this comment can please clarify on how to go about, it will be of real greatfulness.
I do not think that situation aplies to desire, that is pure instinct to save your life. He speaks about the animals in the jungle being in the most attentive state. It would be different if you had been wounded and that makes angry, so you think of a plan of revenge that brings pleasure, then in that case, indeed, it is a matter of desire. If you have time to think you have time to desire. (That is what I think, I might be wrong)
What a revelation ! One of the first and the most powerful thoughts creating the division in oneself (and with others) is that of one's gender and all the desires associated with it ! Does one have the energy to transcend/go beyond this thought ?! I hope so ....
This is gold, this is gold, this is gold...!!!
Wow, this is a very useful perspective on desire. Thank you for uploading :)
This is wonderful ❣️
❤️j....is pure love❤️
wow - I've never seen it like that before - amazing
Thankful :)
What an extraordinary man, teaching something extraordinary and extremely important in such an incredibly simple way ❤
Unless you want to, lol at that last part. So true and yet difficult because of the amount of energy it requires.
consuming this is our civilization we are consumers
🙏🙏🙏
Substitute "the latest Mercedes" with "the latest iPhone".
"Reaching some height of some ridiculous nonsense"... sounds about what we're trying to do here, am I right
Is it your desire to be right?🤣
😍😍😍
6:56
But what IS the problem with having desire and to fullfIll it
Nothing wrong. It's only a problem if you start identifying strongly and getting attached to your desires. Then you suffer the shadow of desire which is fear.
The problem is that you become so attached to that desire that failure to get that desire brings so much pain. But trying to fulfill it isnt bad in itself. It’s the attachment to getting that desire. You should work towards that desire only in the present moment which then makes it ok if you failed or if you dont get what you want.
Need HELP:
What if someone has already desired the blueshirt ,intensely,although that shirt is somehow prohibited for him now??
The blue shirt is not prohibited.... but the observation of the process is.....& So U become aware of the thought process which is only an image..! I hope this is helpful.. namista 🙏
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