Rebels Axed from Super Rugby - Tragedy or Triumph?

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  • Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
  • The Melbourne Rebels have been cut from Super Rugby Pacific from the 2025 season. Is this good or bad for Aussie rugby? What contribution have they made to the competition since 2011?
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Комментарии • 193

  • @seets.8
    @seets.8 4 месяца назад +54

    I have been a Rebels diehard since day one - I remember getting my Wallabies jersey signed by Stirling Mortlock at the Rebels marketing launch as a kid, looking up at all the players and deciding that I wanted to be like them.
    These days I watch every home game from the cheap seats with my dad - we sit and talk, and we enjoy each others' company whilst we watch. It's really nice.
    I've never wanted a team to succeed more than the Rebels - I'm upset after every loss and ecstatic after every win.
    What makes me more upset than anything else is the sad reality is that Rugby Australia didn't kill off the Melbourne Rebels; the Rebels themselves did. They've betrayed the hopes and dreams of young Victorian players, they've betrayed the community of non-players who love rugby from the sidelines, and (in my opinion) they've killed off professional rubgy in Victoria for countless years to come.
    I've stuck by the Rebels - and look how they've repayed me.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +14

      That's brutal to hear mate - yeah they've not done right by Victorian rugby fans like yourself

    • @adammaggs8563
      @adammaggs8563 4 месяца назад +2

      As someone who has watched them with a passing interest this year and last, it’s disappointing to see how few people know about them. And in regards to Victorian players, my perception is we have more victorians playing in SR than in the NRL which is even more disappointing that rebels haven’t been able to become viable.

    • @Pearcewreck
      @Pearcewreck 4 месяца назад +1

      It's because Super Rugby sucks. It is a fools paradise. No one watches state based sport in Aust, except for 3 SOO matches a year.

    • @annavanr2260
      @annavanr2260 4 месяца назад

      Welcome to my world as a die hard Cheetha fan it's been brutal for my team as well. Always playing second fiddle after the 4 big unions.

    • @austingtir
      @austingtir 4 месяца назад

      Its not just the rebels. Rugby in Australia and NZ is in real trouble. IMO its only hope is to give World Rugby the finger and start playing with our own rules and dont even do internationals other than between NZ, Australia and maybe oldschool tours of Australia/South Africa/NZ but doubt the boks would go with it. The real issue down here is theres no billionaires willing to buy a team of players like in europe so theres no crazy money in the game here. + ardern and her covid bullchit basically ruined the game here by stuffing the jaguars around now most of those players from argentina are up in europe playing for euro clubs so we've probably missed the opportunity and even if they get the jaguars back in 2026 it'll take years for them to get all the euro players back down if they even want too come back. Its no co-incidence the rebels are based in melbourne/victoria australias home of covid communist madness either imo. I dont see a solution (unless said billionaire pops up out of nowhere) where most pro NZ players dont end up in europe, dubai or japan (and japan would be the least worst case scenario).

  • @arkdeniz
    @arkdeniz 4 месяца назад +26

    RA establishing a team in Melbourne was as valiant but as foolish as the dwarves trying to recolonise Moria in the face of the Balrog.
    I am surprised they persisted as long as they did.
    Should make the remaining Australian teams more competitive at the elite level tho.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +13

      Didn't expect a Lord of the Rings reference 😅 but it works

    • @JohnRidley12
      @JohnRidley12 4 месяца назад +2

      There is a "shall not pass" joke In there somewhere

  • @MrThrib
    @MrThrib 4 месяца назад +12

    Super Rugby is a fascinating competition. Every year we get to bet on what will happen. Will there be Japanese involved next year? Argentinians? Saffas? Will the Cook Islands get a team? Will Lithuania be involved? It's edge of the seat stuff.
    Oh and some Rugby is played. The NZ teams win that bit.

    • @emailitzs641
      @emailitzs641 4 месяца назад

      Need Japan arentina or somebody. Ack to hopefully spark interest I suggested all stars mini comp 2 best teams each region face off 6 Europe 6 southern hemisphere

  • @subhuman119
    @subhuman119 4 месяца назад +16

    It is sad that the Rebels won't be in Super Rugby next year.
    I'm only guessing here, but a lot of the players will go into the remaining Super Rugby teams, strengthening them even more (Goodness knows the Warratahs could do with you a few). Either that, or they go to Japan or Europe.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +5

      Yeah I think it'll be a mix of all those destinations aye

    • @seanofarrell8896
      @seanofarrell8896 4 месяца назад +2

      ​@@TwoCentsRugby another stupid thing was the rebals where going to play the lions on the tour to Australia

    • @alanfox691
      @alanfox691 4 месяца назад +3

      I would say the cream of the Rebles players will end up in two places
      in N.R.L teams & going to play in The Top 14 in France where they will have everything.
      the average players will be divided between
      Super Rugby teams ,
      Japan League One ,
      U.R.C & English Premiership.

  • @hikosaemon
    @hikosaemon 4 месяца назад +6

    Unfortunate to see the Rebels cut but understand the reasons. Also as a Tokyo based Sunwolves fan, when you look at all the advantages handed to the Rebels to help them succeed compared to teams like the Sunwolves that were forced to play half their "home" games in front of empty stadiums in Singapore where the only expats watching supported the away teams, you can't really say that the Rebels didn't have more control over their own fate. I'd love to see the Jaguares back - they played some great rugby and started to really compete towards the end of their run, even with the travel burden. An outside idea might be a US team but travel would be even worse, and US rugby isn't up to the necessary standard right now.
    I'd love to see Super Rugby in Japan again, but League One has just had a really strong inaugural season, so I can't see Japan rugby supporting a Super Rugby franchise again, especially when they are doing so well themselves at attracting Super Rugby players to their competition. Normally I'd suggest a Samoan or Tongan expansion team, but hard to see that working with Moana Pasifika struggling.
    Still, the Force came back from the dead, so perhaps the Rebels can do the same? But as a Kiwi, I also admit the priority is to get Aussie teams more competitive and I get the feeling for now that reducing teams there serves that end.

    • @thestinkydwarf
      @thestinkydwarf 4 месяца назад +1

      Having seen some of the League One games from Japan, the quality of the games is great (could be a little better defensively). I like the Japanese model where the teams are based on a corporation. Players work for the company and many will move on to work for the company post rugby career. The financial side is more stable as u dont have to chase sponsors, the companies have deep pockets.

    • @petedudson6671
      @petedudson6671 4 месяца назад +1

      Without the Saafas involved they wouldn't have to play games in Singapore anymore. Would love to have them back.

  • @stevenbalderstone709
    @stevenbalderstone709 4 месяца назад +4

    Undoubtably a sad time for the many rugby fans here in Melbourne. This city has a large immigrant population including many Kiwis, Saffas, Polynesian, British people from traditional rugby nations. I'll miss the Friday night games at AAMI park and the incredible crowd atmosphere, and the chance to see some of the world's top players in action - even if they were playing for the opposition. Although the Rebels were only almost good, they played with an entertaining style, scored some amazing tries, and had some memorable wins. Yes, there are many factors contributing to their demise, but that doesn't mean a future Melbourne team isn't viable given the right backing and right business model.

  • @omacburma
    @omacburma 4 месяца назад +3

    I remember watching a Super 12 Rugby show while on vacation in New Zealand back in 2000. The topic of Super Rugby expansion came up, with a report coming out of Australia wanting to put a team in Melbourne. The pundits back then dismissed it, saying that nobody follows rugby union in Melbourne. If only rugby Australia had listened.
    Let's hope they get a team from Argentina back in it. That would be a good addition to the competition.

    • @PjRjHj
      @PjRjHj 3 месяца назад

      The Rebels were an ego project from the likes of John O'Neill

  • @titoelcolombiano
    @titoelcolombiano 4 месяца назад +6

    Rugby League is eating Super Rugby alive in Australia and now even Auckland.

    • @drugilbert2447
      @drugilbert2447 4 месяца назад

      The fox has been in the henhouse for years but no one at ARU will fix the fence. The best talent play NRL and the ARU imports the deficit. It's a failing strategy since 2003.

    • @PjRjHj
      @PjRjHj 3 месяца назад +1

      During and post Superleague war, Rugby Union took advantage of League's darkest days. Yet Union didn't seem to notice that Aussie Rules was white anting them. The Swans and the AFL made huge gains in Sydney's Rugby union suburban strongholds and probably benefited more from the relegation of the North Sydney Bears.

  • @gusgrannan2353
    @gusgrannan2353 4 месяца назад +11

    The AFL used to be the Victorian FL, all of the teams were in Melbourne and the suburbs

    • @alanfox691
      @alanfox691 4 месяца назад +1

      I have tried to get in
      to A.F.L. a couple of times
      but times of the first bunce are the biggest problem most of the time
      I am in Scotland, the time difference with the times of a lot of the first bunces is just to great to overcome for me personally.
      So I end up watching
      N.R.L. the kick-off times are better for us in the
      Nothern Hemisphere for the vast majority of games.
      I dont find Super Rugby
      all that competitive for the most part, but this season had been an exception to the rule but no doubt next season
      Crusaders will be back dominating again.
      Glasgow Warriors are my team we live about an hour way from
      Scotstoun Stadium buy train.

  • @IanRuxton
    @IanRuxton 4 месяца назад +4

    Rugby in Japan is now quite buoyant and crowds are returning. National stadium was almost full last week for League One final, and will be for Japan v England on June 22. I think the Sunwolves might come back. They also attract a very different supporter to traditional company fans.

    • @alanfox691
      @alanfox691 4 месяца назад

      I think there is more chance they bring
      back Jaguares geographically speaking because with
      the Sunwolves
      Super Rugby players where for ever complaining abhave to travel to Japan & back they did not complain quite as much about
      travelling to Argentina & back.
      Personally I think
      Sunwolves makes the most sense but I dont think players will buy in to that at all & without them you have no Super Rugby.
      So I think they bring back
      Jaguares or look elsewhere myb a franchise in Singapore
      for example.

  • @johnryan509
    @johnryan509 4 месяца назад +5

    I had adopted the Rebels as my Super Rugby team, due my mate being from Melbourne, so I am sad to see this news. Never good to see any team fold or getting booted.

  • @austinarsenault9040
    @austinarsenault9040 4 месяца назад +13

    I’m a cheetahs fan and they are still around, they compete in the challenge cup in Europe

    • @christiaan2182
      @christiaan2182 4 месяца назад

      Yeah but the big 4 URC teams are miles ahead of the Cheetahs. They are currently in the same tier as the Pumas, Griquas, etc

    • @YXDHB
      @YXDHB 4 месяца назад +4

      @@christiaan2182 Honestly the depth in the SA pool is unmatched from Varsity Shield/Cup and in general. Sadly we just lack the funds otherwise the Cheetahs are still top tier infact the Pumas too would be great but alas money talks

    • @Faust_ZA
      @Faust_ZA 4 месяца назад

      @@christiaan2182 less we forget at some point cheetahs had just as many springboks if not more than bulls and stormers

    • @christiaan2182
      @christiaan2182 4 месяца назад +1

      @Faust_ZA Currently they are struggling though. I am from Bloem, they are playing games at the University and not at the stadium, because that place is a ghost town

  • @thestinkydwarf
    @thestinkydwarf 4 месяца назад +3

    What about canning Super Rugby as a concept and focus on developing local leagues and junior rugby, u can have interstate/province games and international games as the marquee games to promote the game

  • @iancooper2213
    @iancooper2213 4 месяца назад +3

    Well that jersey you are wearing will be a collector’s item

  • @pjclaasen4599
    @pjclaasen4599 4 месяца назад +6

    The fact that you make the playoffs with a 5 and 8 record shows there is something very wrong with the way Super Rugby is structured. It was brilliant until it became bigger than 15 teams, but Super12 was the pinnacle.

    • @emailitzs641
      @emailitzs641 4 месяца назад

      No international teams and Australia being content staunching league and letting union burn

  • @bsemmanz7274
    @bsemmanz7274 4 месяца назад

    Bless you Brother, Blessings to your loved ones,
    Thank you for the update.
    27 I believe you play a part.

  • @johnjordan4647
    @johnjordan4647 4 месяца назад +13

    The Force would have gone the same way if it wasn’t for the backing of Twiggy Forest

    • @Waywind420
      @Waywind420 4 месяца назад +2

      Yup, and Forrest probably should have let the force perish in order to strengthen the other franchises.
      In fairness, Western Australia has the third largest number of registered players in the country, so the grassroots is decent, but it's location (isolation) makes it economically impractical to have a team there.
      Canberra should not have a team at all, they don't create players domestically, they simply recruit from states that do.
      Ideally there'd be 3 cities with teams (Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne) with teams able to take a bus or train to matches instead of flying.

    • @mpittard21
      @mpittard21 4 месяца назад

      @@Waywind420 The biggest love , supreme desire would for RA, would be that suddenly Forrest decided to move to Sydney or Melbourne. The problem they have is that he is a very parochial western Australian and has never expressed any idea to do so.

    • @khankake9576
      @khankake9576 4 месяца назад

      The Force did go the same way, but they were brought back in the COVID affected 2020 season.

    • @PjRjHj
      @PjRjHj 3 месяца назад

      The Force base fought for their team far more than the Rebels base. The Force got screwed by RugbyAU, the Rebels screwed themselves and Victorian Rugby.

  • @joshanderson9391
    @joshanderson9391 4 месяца назад +2

    Melbourne has a lot of professional sports teams:
    9 AFL clubs with a 10th an hour drive away
    3 Aleague soccer clubs
    2 Big Bash T20 Cricket sides
    2 National Basketball League sides
    2 Super Netball sides
    And the Melbourne Storm in the NRL
    Also the Women’s comps for those sports as well, except Netball
    There’s also dozens of semi professional soccer AFL and Basketball teams, (not many know but Basketball is also huge in Melbourne) as well.
    The Rebels were always going to have a tough run, but I believe it could have worked if the board wasn’t so incompetent. As you show they averaged 10k for numerous seasons before the fall in form, that is enough to work, shame it didn’t.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +2

      Yeah man it's insane
      I'm sure Super Rugby attendances dropped across the board in that time too - but especially for the Rebels with lackluster results aye

  • @JKMeZmA
    @JKMeZmA 4 месяца назад +4

    It’s really interesting when you compare its overall revenue, as it made 112aud in 2023, which is about the same as Scottish rugby for the same year £67 million pounds. It’s kind of wild that they can facilitate so many teams with that, with all the travel, and how big their stadiums are compared to the European counterparts (and all those costs if they own or rent them).
    It’s quite sad as I think those are maybe fans who might not be as keen to follow another club side and maybe become national side supporting fans only.
    Sadly I think this does speak to how much of a mess the organisation is, with all the stories, especially over the last 8 years, and from how folks like John Barclay have described some of their leaders like Scott Johnson (he called a cowboy and unprofessional). Let alone the Eddie jones nightmare management decision.
    At least the current national side coaches sounds like a proper setup with real talent amongst it.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +3

      Yeah man 5 sides in the end is probably too many. I was all for the expansion back in the day because I figured the talent would find ways to come through. But it's not happened quick enough and I think Aussie rugby has an issue with retaining fringe players who often take up offers abroad, which further dilutes the talent pool.

    • @JKMeZmA
      @JKMeZmA 4 месяца назад +2

      @@TwoCentsRugby for sure. They definitely are stretched too thin financially and for their talent pool. They do bleed players hard to overseas salaries and chances, and to other sports. Sad day for them, but hopefully it’s another wake up call to really work on themselves eh?

    • @metalisticpain
      @metalisticpain 4 месяца назад

      Why is our depth so bad... We are five times larger than NZ in pop 😅 you'd think we'd find enough grit.

  • @roberthutchison1561
    @roberthutchison1561 4 месяца назад +2

    Apparently the jaguars are front runners for the rebels replacement , cause they been invited to the 2026 season , from reports from Argentina they all ready to go just waiting for the go ahead

  • @D4N1CU5
    @D4N1CU5 4 месяца назад +1

    The reporting I saw said that there was an anonymous partner that the consortium refused to disclose and their proposal didn't have enough detail, I assume RA would have asked for more detail before saying no so it's a bit of a weird proposal honestly and I can understand why RA (with all the accusations of financial mismanagement over decades now) would say no.
    Sad for the players, considering the financial knife edge most Aus SR teams are on I actually don't know how many Rebels will end up staying in Australia. Think it's much more likely they'll be snapped up by the NRL and Japan/Europe. Sad for Aus rugby in that that's one more pathway to the Wobs closed off for young people coming through, Melbourne is a popular destination for the pasifika diaspora so there'll be lots of kids with a family interest/history in rugby running around that could be encouraged to head down a rugby path rather than AFL or NRL.

  • @jules9123
    @jules9123 4 месяца назад +1

    I’m so sorry for the players and staff. Some of them went through it with the force in 2017. I’m sorry as an oz rugby tragic I just want the sport to thrive but it’s not. I will watch with interest to see if any improvement in the other teams next year.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад

      Yeah it's rough on the players and staff when they've been screwed over by the management. Looking at the bright side, I am just hopeful this means a boost to the remaining 4 teams if some of the players decide to stay in Australia

  • @petedudson6671
    @petedudson6671 4 месяца назад

    Would love to see the Sunwolves back. Had great crowds when played in Japan and right time zone. There needs to be buy in from the JRFU though. With only the one Super team I can't see why it could not co-exist with their League One comp. Give them the carrot of entry into the RC alongside Fiji. Make it happen!

  • @jasonh7085
    @jasonh7085 4 месяца назад +1

    As disappointing as it is to see the Rebels go, this would be a perfect opportunity for SRP to go for a full home and away season, and a top 5 or top 6 finals system. We don’t need any more teams (I don’t think we should see the Jaguares return as that will only damage the SR Americas competition, and place additional financial strain on the existing SRP clubs), so an 11 team comp with a full home and away season will be good for getting additional game time for players, fans and bradcasters

  • @ZachyboRC
    @ZachyboRC 4 месяца назад +3

    You could see it coming, the super round has been a failure in Melbourne and if that doesn't get people in seats I don't think anything will. Just too competitive in Melbourne sporting market

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +3

      Yeah man the Melbourne Storm have been a top side for so many years and even they don't sell out their stadium, so a poor Rebels side were always gonna be facing an uphill battle in that market

    • @ZachyboRC
      @ZachyboRC 4 месяца назад +1

      @@TwoCentsRugby even harder when your fans have to watch their team get pumped week in week out... Was really insightful seeing their results each season I never knew it was always that bad

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +2

      Yeah man you usually see teams have a good and bad run aye. The Blues were crap but are now decent. The Reds have both won Super Rugby and been awful during the Rebels time - same with the Tahs. But the Rebels have generally just been poor to slightly below average

  • @mikehosken4328
    @mikehosken4328 4 месяца назад +2

    The writing was on the wall for quite some time. Bring in financially stable teams.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад

      Yeah man can't go on leaking money every year

  • @marktaylor4025
    @marktaylor4025 4 месяца назад +1

    I wish they had gone before last years World Cup then Eddie wouldn’t have picked so many of their players for the Wallabies - still smarting from that campaign

  • @amigunz9164
    @amigunz9164 4 месяца назад +1

    AU needs to make a national comp and put the rebels in there.

  • @VelvetRiot-hz5mp
    @VelvetRiot-hz5mp 4 месяца назад

    Where in NZ or OZ does Super Rugby attract an attendance over 10,000. Cannot believe this sport is still a going concern. It's the Model T of footballing codes.
    No pro rugby in the biggest city of the whole region. Good luck improving that tv deal.

  • @chesterdonnelly1212
    @chesterdonnelly1212 4 месяца назад +2

    I don't know all that much about Aussie rugby but from what I've watched and read over the years I think Australia doesn't usually have a lot of player depth and rugby is not all that big in Victoria. The 3 OG provincial teams plus Western Australia is probably enough teams for Australia. 4 professional teams is enough.
    It's always sad when a team is lost but that's life and it shouldn't come as a big surprise.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +3

      Yeah when the Force were axed we saw a boost to the Rebels - I'm hoping for Super Rugby that this will be a boost to the other Aussie sides. Four might be the magic number. I like having the Force there too because rugby seems to have a bigger share of the sports market. Victoria is nuts with the number of teams they've got

    • @chesterdonnelly1212
      @chesterdonnelly1212 4 месяца назад +1

      @@TwoCentsRugby yes I think Western Australia has more potential for rugby union, because it doesn't have a whole other sports league dominating like AFL or NRL, and because a lot of Saffas, Kiwis and Poms moved there.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +2

      Yeah no NRL teams there (yet) - think two AFL teams in WA? Definitely a different story compared to Melbourne

    • @PjRjHj
      @PjRjHj 3 месяца назад

      Perth will have an NRL team within 4 years. The WA government is actively lobbying for it.
      The NRL's abort expansion in 2012 is why Perth's HBF Park redevelopment was paused after stage one. The WA govt needed the third tenant in the NRL (along with Super Rugby and A-League soccer) to make the full redevelopment viable. Hopefully completion is back in the cards in time for the NRL's return

  • @0riole11
    @0riole11 4 месяца назад

    Spent some time thinking about how to answer this. If RA and SR want to grow the sport in non-traditional markets, having a team in Melbourne makes real sense, it's the second biggest city in Australia and bigger than the biggest NZ city. What has gone wrong is RA have not looked at how the NRL got the Storm to succeed or how the AFL were able to get teams in Sydney and Brisbane to thrive to the point where they needed to add additional teams.
    For a team to gather supporters and sponsors it needs to have on field success, the best way to do that is to, for a period of time,
    1. Give them an increased salary cap to be able to attract marquee players.
    2. Give them increased funding from the governing body.
    3. Flood the local media with advertising, which in turn will result in stories being aired/written in the media
    4. Encourage established and emerging players to sign with the new club.
    5. Engage with community, not just the Rugby community, but the community as a whole, it a non-traditional market that know little about the sport.
    6. From a SRP point of view, allowing Kiwi players to boost an expansion club and still be eligible for AB selection would also help grow support.
    In addition to this RA owns and operates the Waratahs license since they went in to receivership and assumed full control in November last year. The Tah's are on the decline and the Rebels are starting to move up, with the private equity group's backing, the least RA could have done was underwrite the Rebels with very little risk.
    IMO, RA is showing preferential treatment do a franchise that in a similar position financially, but under performing on the field, because that's where they used to play and is where their mates have positions, and they have not given the support that was needed to make the Rebels a success. As an example in February Rugby and Soccer are the biggest sports being played in Melbourne, but the Rebels get no coverage on Nine News, it's all AFL, and in the print media, there may be a small article about the nest game and the team listing as the last item in the sports section before the form guide for the nags, that's not how you market an international sport in a sports mad town.

    • @DinkemDolph
      @DinkemDolph 4 месяца назад +1

      Melbourne is actually the biggest city in Australia
      Mel: 5,316m
      Syd: 5,185m

    • @PjRjHj
      @PjRjHj 3 месяца назад

      The Melbourne Storm succeeded off the corpses of the Western/Perth Reds and the Hunter Mariners, then they were bankrolled for years by News Ltd.
      RugbyAU tried a similar thing. The Rebels received millions more than the other Australia sides, and RugbyAU killed off another Perth team for Melbourne to feed off.
      So 2 times, a more deserving Perth side with no concessions, was killed off for a less deserving Melbourne side who were given plenty of leg ups.

  • @_peepyopee
    @_peepyopee 4 месяца назад +1

    AU and NZ need to focus on their backyards
    Both should exit Super Rugby, take their franchises back home and form national competitions around them.
    Any Trans Tasman/Pacfic/International competition should be a champions league style competition similar to what we see in football. With the winner going on to face the European Champions Cup winner

  • @fr0nkky20
    @fr0nkky20 4 месяца назад

    Honestly it’s really sad i really hope they come back like the Force

  • @mark123655
    @mark123655 4 месяца назад

    Sad that we will lose more Aussie juniors to RL..
    But reality is not enough depth in Australia v NZ, resulting in continuing poor performance from Aussie teams which flows through into losses and poor crowds.
    Either an Aussie team needed to go (Force or Rebels) or the Kiwis needed to add a few team - and that wasnt going to happen.
    Hopefuly the Brumbies can play a few games down south.

  • @fleshen
    @fleshen 4 месяца назад +1

    I'm not sure why the Argentines would want to pump money into a comp that has already dumped them out once, same with the Japanese!
    Maybe the Japanese need better opposition for their players, but it's not like Argentina have suffered as a result of the Jaguares being kicked out of SR!

  • @Pearcewreck
    @Pearcewreck 4 месяца назад +1

    It amazes me that in this comments Section, no one has addressed the real issue. That is, it isn't the Rebels who are the problem. The problem is Super Rugby itself.
    It sucks. No one is interested in it, because no on is interested in a state based, week in week out competition in Australia. No one watches Sheffield Shield Cricket, Big Bash only became popular when it moved away from a state based comp to city based teams, even AFL can't generate interest in State of Origin type comp. The only state based sport that has worked is State of Origin. And it is definitely not a week in week out competition, only 3 matches a year between two states.
    I have been saying this for years, professional rugby in Aust will slowly die whilst ever we persist with Super Rugby.
    We need to put all the time money and resources into a genuine club based national comp. Not the pathetic joke that was the NRC, but actually taking the best of the existing Shute Shield and Brisbane Clubs and making a national comp out of them, plus a couple from Canberra, Melbourne and Perth each. It wouldn't be perfect, but it will be better than Super Rugby.

    • @Noobsaibot21
      @Noobsaibot21 4 месяца назад +1

      Super Rugby should be operated more like the European champions cup (or the challenge cup). Qualification based with national League teams from several countries (AU, NZ, JP etc ..) getting in based on the domestic league performance. Much like how English, French, Irish, Italian, Saffa etc... teams qualify up north

    • @jonathonwhitiora8102
      @jonathonwhitiora8102 4 месяца назад

      well said I'm a Hugh supporter of national professional demestic rugby throw out and do away with the super rugby model is not working and should be scapped get ridd of it with a national professional demestic rugby championship for
      AUSTRALIA
      at the state level have a eight state sides like
      in all state of origin or state of the union clashes an all out Australian affair a
      championship like there are
      14 rounds and 7 away games and 7 home games per team each then a top 4
      then the grand final that's a total average of 14 and 16 games per team a year and each rosters per teams can have Top Australian local players and Wallabies and mix it up with international players and stars from around the World as well as well as All Blacks
      playing in these teams
      to give it a Australian and International flava to the championship
      and will give a tribalism feel to it as well the teams are
      Queensland Reds
      New South Wales Waratahs
      ACT Brumbies
      Victoria Rebels
      Tasmania Jack Jumpers
      South Australia. Black Falcons
      Northern Territory Mosquitoes
      Western Australia Force
      these state side teams each run and managed both the mens and the women's and are sponsored and are independently owned by private millionaires or billonaires or investment groups independent from Rugby Australia and manage there own board cast media platforms and
      online internet.social media Rugby Australia should just look after The Wallabies and The Wallaroos all age groups rugby for both agendas at international test level who are owned by a group of private investors or millionaires what ever
      both Rugby Australia and the new National Professional Championship Rugby
      and the eight fully professional state side rugby teams as 50 / 50 partners what
      ever extra profit they make they put back or funded into grassroots rugby
      being amertuer clubs and schools rugby for rugby redevelopment both
      Rugby Australia and The Eight State sides union teams 50/50 partners also own and run
      grass roots rugby and lower levels down to increase the growth of rugby within
      the eight state unions and the whole of Australia rugby landscape for
      NEW ZEALAND
      scrappe the five super rugby franchises teams
      of Nz and go back to the provinces have there own national domestic rugby championships
      at the provincial level which is on the same level as the state level in Australia rugby
      there are 27 rugby provinces teams all need to be professionally run
      independent from NZRFU and need to be privately own by investment groups
      these 27 teams are then divided into three independent national championships
      there are 8 teams in say the division three championship and nine teams in the
      division two championship ten teams in the division one NPC Championship
      or Bunnings Rugby Championship there automatic
      relaxation / promotion between the divisional championship
      in the first division of the Bunnings NPC Rugby Championship
      top New Zealand local players and All Blacks and international players from all over
      the globe are in these teams which can give to Wallabies playing in these teams
      the teams
      Northland Taniwha
      North Harbour Knights
      Auckland Blues
      Counties Manuka Steelers
      Waikato Cheifs
      King Country Rams
      Hawkes Bay Magpies
      Wellington Hurricanes
      Canterbury Crusaders
      Otago Highlanders
      NZRFU or New Zealand Rugby Football Union
      professionally runs The All Blacks at all the international test level
      the provinces runs themselves but both 50/50
      partners to run and fund and own grassroots rugby in New Zealand
      THE SUPER RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP
      a 12 team tournament like
      the top 6 rugby teams from the Australia national championship face off against
      the top 6 rugby teams from the New Zealand Bunnings NPC Rugby Championship
      format can be straight round ore two pool groups of .6 teams each
      pool a 3 Aussies 3 kiwis teams
      in the other pool b group of 6 teams 3 kiwis and 3 Aussies teams and so on
      these are just ideas

  • @jackdarby8904
    @jackdarby8904 4 месяца назад +2

    Disappointing but I feel they shouldve been axed in 2017 instead of the Force so yeah.

  • @wouterswanepoel5753
    @wouterswanepoel5753 4 месяца назад +30

    Rugby is being killed by too many competitions, too many teams and too many extremely high-earning "employees", who mostly do not deserve those fortunes while the game is in decline. The cost of running a franchise which participates in various top-level, often cross-border, inter-continental competitions is simply astronomical. Hence ALL four of South Africa's top franchises are ALSO being run at losses! For how long can that be maintained? They're being kept afloat by broadcasting rights, but that is also dependent on the "interest" of fans, and that is not helped by the plethora of competitions and opponents they have to face in other parts of the world. Goodness me, in the URC, for example, Saffers have scant interest in a match between Scarlets and Benetton (for example). We merely check the logs after every weekend to see what's happened to our teams. Really, what's the point? And about the money involved: imagine the cost of having to take a 30-man Saffer side with coaches and auxiliary staff (let's say 40 in total) to a European destination for two or three days when the exchange rate is 23,65 Rand to one pound? Astronomical! And then few Saffers actually watch the match because, really, who cares? Money (and greed) is killing the game we all love so much. It's about to explode. Cheers from Safferland chaps.

    • @daithioceallaigh7088
      @daithioceallaigh7088 4 месяца назад +2

      Leinster fan here. Totally agree. The length of the season is another massive issue. I cannot fathom the URC going all the way into June. It's madness. Because we do well enough to mostly guarantee at least play off places we barely even register the urc here until the business end of the season. The 9/10 month season seems crazy, both financially for clubs and for players bodies.

    • @anthonyryan30
      @anthonyryan30 4 месяца назад +5

      The hundreds of thousands going to watch Stormers, Bulls and Sharks would disagree with you.

    • @scran7346
      @scran7346 4 месяца назад +5

      ​@@daithioceallaigh7088
      The primary revenue stream for almost all clubs is in ticket sales for games. I really can't understand the outrage here

    • @OscarOSullivan
      @OscarOSullivan 4 месяца назад +2

      Moving televised broadcast away from public broadcasters is not helping either.

    • @JT-xh9ev
      @JT-xh9ev 4 месяца назад +4

      @@daithioceallaigh7088 the URC is hardly to long.
      URC - 18 rounds
      Premiership - 18 rounds
      Super rugby - 14 rounds
      Top 14 - 26 rounds
      Top 14 is the most successful and profitable competition while also being the longest by far.
      -Every team plays each other home and away
      -relegation and promotion giving meaning to bottom table games
      -Great broadcast deals and funding for lower leagues improves overall competition and avoids a Zebre Parma situation
      Clearly long seasons are not the reason league lose money but it’s all the things they have missing which the Top14 has

  • @handsolo1209
    @handsolo1209 4 месяца назад

    Would it have been a better idea to start a team in Darwin or Hobart, places without top level teams in AFL, NRL, etc? Surely that would get more hardcore fans finally able to watch top level sport than sticking teams in an already packed market like Melbourne.

    • @HURLINGHQ-oz2yv
      @HURLINGHQ-oz2yv 4 месяца назад

      the markets might not be packed but they’re pretty small, the potential revenue/fanbase would be limited.
      You would struggle to convince players to move there instead of the big 5 cities.
      Any expansion to place like that is likely to lose money and without a billionaire backer like twiggy at the force RA would have to brunt the costs and considering they’re insolvent atm I couldn’t see them going down that route.

    • @handsolo1209
      @handsolo1209 4 месяца назад

      @@HURLINGHQ-oz2yv You would think though that Darwin could get the PNG audience too (I know league is much more popular than union there right now). Hobart would get all the Tasmanian fans. Some of the NZ teams have very small catchment areas and crowds, but they do well on that (possibly because there is no competition from other sports). I think it might be worth a go rather than continued failure in markets where AFL, NRL, Cricket and Soccer are much bigger than union. It might be better to have 2 teams with 10-30k fans than empty stadiums in Melbourne every game. I just reckon that those two places actually having a major team would resonate more with the locals than a 5th choice sport in a bigger city.

    • @HURLINGHQ-oz2yv
      @HURLINGHQ-oz2yv 4 месяца назад +1

      ⁠@@handsolo1209it comes down to balancing the books.
      The AFL’s 19th is going to Hobart/Tasmania which is Aussie Rules territory.
      Even with that there are questions whether players will move down to Tasmania and questions if the team will ever be sustainable/profitable.
      If the AFL is struggling in Tasmania it would be financial suicide to put a Union team in a market like Darwin.
      Unless there was an individual/organisation willing to fund it.

  • @tongsupavit
    @tongsupavit 4 месяца назад

    Its sad for Victoria rugby union but he will replace Rebels?

  • @4evaavfc
    @4evaavfc 4 месяца назад

    It's always sad to see a club/franchise go down. Melbourne is a big city, but Aussie rules and league dominate.

    • @PjRjHj
      @PjRjHj 3 месяца назад

      No, just Aussie Rules. League has forged itself a tiny niche in Melbourne due to the ridiculous good onfield achievements of the Melbourne Storm. God knows what that will look like if/when The Storm has a few lean years

  • @CRUSHENGLISH
    @CRUSHENGLISH 4 месяца назад +1

    Have you got in touch with Paul Tait?

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +1

      Not for a while man - what's up? Jaguares news?

    • @CRUSHENGLISH
      @CRUSHENGLISH 4 месяца назад +1

      @@TwoCentsRugby That's right 👍

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +1

      Ok cheers, I'll have a wee look!

    • @CRUSHENGLISH
      @CRUSHENGLISH 4 месяца назад +1

      He usually knows what is happening concerning the UAR.

  • @docgonzales
    @docgonzales 4 месяца назад +1

    May as well have put a team in Poland , rugby has no social imprint in Victoria

  • @JewbacosTacos
    @JewbacosTacos 4 месяца назад

    What does this mean for interest of super rugby?

  • @ChrisBrown-or8ky
    @ChrisBrown-or8ky 4 месяца назад

    Mixed news. Hopefully allows other teams to get stronger in the short term, but makes the future of super rugby weaker.
    Fundamentally, the question has to be asked about if/how super rugby has spread the game at the expense of solidifying its base support

  • @khankake9576
    @khankake9576 4 месяца назад +1

    Melbourne is a predominantly AFL town, even the success of the NRL's Melbourne Storm doesn't compare.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад

      Yeah man that's putting it mildly - they're AFL nuts there

  • @Waywind420
    @Waywind420 4 месяца назад +2

    It had to be done, the 5th franchise has only harmed Australian Rugby.
    Now the teams talent can be condensed into 4 squads.
    They ought to work on the grassroots still, which means strong high school programs (where the lads are required to train and play 5-12 hours per week for during season).
    More fan-days and public training sessions, cheaper stadium pricing (stands are empty = priced too high) and they need to improve their media presence by clearing out the dinosaurs who represent the face of Aussie Rugby.
    Aussie teams should mandate super rugby experience for at least 2 under 20's prospects throughout their seasons and the result would be a stacked under 20's squad each year with 8+ super rugby players, which would hopefully translate into building confident players with a winning mindset.
    The player drain needs to also be reduced, so guys will need to be paid more to keep them here.
    Coaching and training needs to also improve...the amount of times i've seen ordinary players head to europe and then become world class players up there is staggering.

  • @andrewcavenagh9016
    @andrewcavenagh9016 4 месяца назад +1

    Some of the crowds in super rugby are pathetic. It's just not financially sustainable. Meanwhile, the European professional game is facing the same challenges, with much larger average attendances. The rugby authorities really need to reset the size, number, and structure of tournaments to match the revenues that the game can realistically produce. Otherwise, a lot more professional teams will go under.

  • @TOTN17
    @TOTN17 4 месяца назад

    Sucks that the Rebels are gone but now we need to Figure out if we try to find another team and get back to 12 or cut another team and go down to 10?

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +1

      Yeah if they were cutting... Moana Pasifika is the side that doesn't really have a base just yet.... I am sure they are the least profitable. However I seem to remember their existence is partly due to World Rugby's backing? To create pathways for Pacific players, so maybe they'd be safe?

    • @cooperc69420
      @cooperc69420 4 месяца назад

      If that were to happen it would most likely be either the Force or Moana Pasifika. The Force have been cut from Super Rugby before but have since came back.

    • @TOTN17
      @TOTN17 4 месяца назад +1

      @@TwoCentsRugby Moana have the backing of World Rugby so they aint going anywhere for now if we had to go to 10 it would be the Brumbies that get cut as they and the Tahs have a shitload of Debt but RA is run by Sydney Old Boys and the Tahs are the golden child that have to be protected

    • @TOTN17
      @TOTN17 4 месяца назад +1

      @@cooperc69420 Force have the Backing of Twiggy they aint going anywhere

  • @sydlemon5285
    @sydlemon5285 4 месяца назад

    There are not enough games to generate interest. Union news coverage in Australia is Saturday and Sunday and quite brief. Cf league where there are so many games and they play on Sunday so there is lots of “content”. Without content there is limited coverage and with limited coverage there is limited money. International teams don’t help much if the interest in the South African games were anything to go by.

  • @rafflesiaandfriends
    @rafflesiaandfriends 4 месяца назад +1

    We need more countries involved, I think we should merge the rebels and waratahs, also merge the drua and mona. Then we could bring in the Canadians, American, Argentinian, Chilean, Uruguayan, Japanese, south Korean, Chinese (Hong Kong and Taiwanese combined). So 18 teams all together and the rich countries will help prop up the poorer countries making the competition more profitable

    • @tonylittle3508
      @tonylittle3508 4 месяца назад +3

      Got to be realistic about the travel, just cant see that happening.

    • @rafflesiaandfriends
      @rafflesiaandfriends 4 месяца назад

      @@tonylittle3508 yeah but it would be interesting, if they could figure out a way to do it

    • @deathzone5893
      @deathzone5893 4 месяца назад +1

      @@rafflesiaandfriends Defiantly need more teams and other countries competing But New Zealand and Australia is just way too far away from every other countries. If USA or The European countries were nearby Super Rugby could easily add more teams and good chance they could of too if that was the case. Unfortunately all those countries you mentioned would just be way too much traveling all taking at least half a day just to fly there from New Zealand and Australia, if wasn't that far away then absolutely that could easily be possible. The only ways to add more teams for Super Rugby to make it work in my opinion is either try and bring back the South African teams, or add few teams from Argentina, or could add a few more pacific Island countries since they aren't far to travel but since their economy is pretty poor that will be hard to make that work plus they need a proper home base to play they cannot have them playing at random locations like the Moana Pacifica, could add a few more Australia teams based in Hobart Tasmania, Adelaide (South Australia) plus more but at the same don't know about having too many Australia teams in the comp. Could even try convincing the Southern part of Asia to create a few rugby teams to enter super rugby but at the same time they do need to be competitive.

    • @mpittard21
      @mpittard21 4 месяца назад

      THat dosnt make much sense. Richer companies propping up smaller countries makes the competition more profitable? How? Are the poor companies gonna sign lucrative tv deals with local networks?

  • @jdmans
    @jdmans 4 месяца назад

    Just what the Rebels needed before their playoff game....

  • @charlottescott7150
    @charlottescott7150 4 месяца назад

    Shame for the players and other staff. But looks like it was inevitable

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +1

      20 million in debt.. yeah it's tough to come back from there aye

    • @charlottescott7150
      @charlottescott7150 4 месяца назад

      @@TwoCentsRugby do any teams "make" money for their investors/owners?

  • @longshot6566
    @longshot6566 4 месяца назад

    I hate to say it but I think super rugby isn’t the way forward for rugby in Aus. I think we need a national comp with the best 2/3 to go on and compete against NZ and other provincial teams in a champions league type format.

  • @caintindal1671
    @caintindal1671 4 месяца назад

    As much as I hate it the right decision been made Rugby Australia although it is coffin in Austrlian rugby

  • @icefarrow7959
    @icefarrow7959 4 месяца назад +1

    Guess they gotta fastrack the Jaguares or something now, given the broadcasting rights are contingent on 12 teams.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +2

      It'll be interesting to see if they go down that route. Part of the reason NZ was pushing for a contracted comp was to reduce the travel and keep the time zones tighter. That plus which players the Jaguares would be able to recruit - I imagine a lot of the top players are contracted to European clubs for the next few years

    • @liverpool6058
      @liverpool6058 4 месяца назад

      ​@@TwoCentsRugbyYou'd think they would axe the force if that's the case

    • @seanofarrell8896
      @seanofarrell8896 4 месяца назад +1

      ​​@@TwoCentsRugby I feel another island nation is better then jaguares because they have a super rugby Americas and it would damage the growth of the game in South America. Plus the money in Europe is better for the top players that where in the jaguars

  • @aircongosney
    @aircongosney 4 месяца назад

    Theres money in melbourne. Its weird they cant have a team. Maybe its the ridiculous ticket prices and poor management.... but how doesnt melbourne have a team?

  • @LasarusaWaqa
    @LasarusaWaqa 4 месяца назад +1

    I think Daugunu is going back to reds

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +1

      That'd be good news for Aussie rugby if he stays

  • @johnmcdonald-6196
    @johnmcdonald-6196 4 месяца назад

    The worst thing is an 11 team comp is taking us in the wrong direction.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад

      That's definitely an issue for the administrators to work out aye

  • @seanofarrell8896
    @seanofarrell8896 4 месяца назад

    I feel more likely will happen is more will move abroad for better money even though playing for Australia is a big thing. But with what Australia did to them they would give the finger to Australia.

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад

      Yeah guys like Tupou, Kellaway etc will no doubt get good offers from abroad. Some of the squad players probably pick up gigs in Australia

    • @seanofarrell8896
      @seanofarrell8896 4 месяца назад

      @@TwoCentsRugby rumors where leinster where interested in tupou let's see if that happens

  • @cale1981
    @cale1981 4 месяца назад

    What is gonna happen with that so called SuperRound ?

  • @andrewblack9153
    @andrewblack9153 4 месяца назад

    SMASH the like button, bros. 1/10 like-to-view ratio is not enough.

  • @peterflynn2111
    @peterflynn2111 4 месяца назад

    Rugby union only draws 2 dogs and a cat here in Victoria . union has never been of any consequence

  • @schnell7325
    @schnell7325 4 месяца назад

    what would your twocents be if you were the head of the Super rugby competition?

  • @lanceuppercut3137
    @lanceuppercut3137 4 месяца назад +1

    How is RA going to grow the game without a team in the biggest city..? Where will the pathways for Vic Wallabies and Wallaroos come from..? If you’re not in Sydney‘s east or north shore RA doesn’t care.

    • @khankake9576
      @khankake9576 4 месяца назад

      Sydney is the biggest city. Melbourne is the second biggest.

    • @lanceuppercut3137
      @lanceuppercut3137 4 месяца назад

      @@khankake9576 Melb has bigger population as of March 2024

  • @The_wolf_gamer
    @The_wolf_gamer 4 месяца назад

    can we get the jaguars back please they were really good it would be good to have canes chiefs blues brumbies top 4 but then u also got the reds and jaguars and maybe the crusaders back 2025 to try win again i think jaguars would be good cause there a good team so u can have 5-6 good teams those games and playoffs gonna be better and clsoer less teams going back to back

  • @murrad23
    @murrad23 4 месяца назад

    Right call (unfortunately)

  • @2msystems740
    @2msystems740 4 месяца назад

    Ironic that they are boxed in the year they made the playoffs.

  • @Argenswiss
    @Argenswiss 4 месяца назад

    Good, now bring the jaguares back!

  • @galinor7
    @galinor7 4 месяца назад

    The Melbourne storm (RL) are laughing all the way to the bank.

  • @jinjaman101
    @jinjaman101 4 месяца назад

    Sad BUT!!

  • @kangaroo1888
    @kangaroo1888 3 месяца назад

    Australia Rugby became East Coast focused 😢.A lost opportunity.

  • @liverpool6058
    @liverpool6058 4 месяца назад

    How ironic would it be if they go deep into the playoffs haha

    • @TwoCentsRugby
      @TwoCentsRugby  4 месяца назад +1

      Imagine if they won the bloody thing! (dreaming I know, but imagine)

  • @thephantomstranger4073
    @thephantomstranger4073 4 месяца назад

    In terms of time zones the Japanese teams need to be let in. A better plan is needed for Argentina and the Americas in general

    • @username9175
      @username9175 4 месяца назад

      Isn't the Japanese league more profitable than super rugby? I don't think they would want to join.

  • @austingtir
    @austingtir 4 месяца назад

    They need to bring in a hawkes bay/Taranaki super rugby side like the central vikings or something similar. Then they can bring the Jaguars and hopefully a japanese side in 2026. IMO this would be the best option (but NZ rugby cant afford it atm) because it would dilute the NZ teams down to a level where the aussie and pacific teams will be competitive and NZ can develop more players. NZ/Australia needs to be the playing base for a japanese side and the jaguars just like they are doing in the european comp to keep the pacific based players down here in the southern hemisphere. The real problem with NZ/Australia is thers no billionaires standing up to fund these franchises like the european competition. So if NZ/Australia dont get their shit together they might aswell just send all the players to europe or dubai and forget about it.

  • @qnqmria
    @qnqmria 4 месяца назад +1

    lol next be omoana

  • @DavidTebb
    @DavidTebb 4 месяца назад

    Au rugby needs to go back to 3 teams simply au rugby goes not have enough death nz rugby needs south Africa sides to come back into the super rugby but sadly that is not going to happen

  • @davidthatcher7784
    @davidthatcher7784 4 месяца назад

    This prove australia rugby only care about 22 states Queensland and new south Wales western force will go next

  • @johnbroadbelt
    @johnbroadbelt 4 месяца назад

    Moana Pacific will be next

  • @Lesssvav
    @Lesssvav 4 месяца назад

    Aus teams are going to be stronger

  • @richardireland6072
    @richardireland6072 3 месяца назад

    Super rugby should be gone it’s run it’s race no one wants to watch it full stop there are no bums on seats…what do you think??

  • @FijianFala88
    @FijianFala88 4 месяца назад

    Super 2024 Rugby suck

  • @MarkWhippy
    @MarkWhippy 4 месяца назад

    Idk why the Rebels can't just let it go. Their team has been consistently bad, financially unsustainable. Why are the owners still trying to hang on? Imagine any other business being like that? I think it will be good for Aussie rugby and Super Rugby overall.

    • @ant208
      @ant208 4 месяца назад +1

      How can it be good for Australia, less players getting exposure

    • @MarkWhippy
      @MarkWhippy 4 месяца назад

      @@ant208 They were losing so much money. Playing one sided losses in front of empty stadiums was a terrible look for the competition. Some players might miss out, but the best will rise to the top. They still have 4 teams. Australia were the best team in the world when they only had 3. The other teams will be stronger with the wallabies from the rebels added to their sides. And the wallabies will be better since the players will be more used to playing together.

  • @stumpymcstump
    @stumpymcstump 4 месяца назад

    Melbourne is absolutely an AFL town, crap sport but who am I to judge? If they aren't going to win the city will not get behind them. Now I really don't care if the ARU throws good money after bad but honestly the market just isn't there. The populous would rather watch lads in too tight singlets and shorts jump about than support a proper code.