Are Kiwi Rugby Pundits Arrogant?
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- With Super Rugby Pacific underway in 2024, the comparison between Union and League has already come up, and what seems to me to be a wee bit of New Zealand commentary arrogance.
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Absolutely, there’s a reason Kiwi pundits overwhelmingly refer to Ireland as “well drilled”, cause they couldn’t possibly be talented
Yeah we're known for our drilling up here in ol' Ireland!
In fairness that is why Ireland are the best team in the world. They are the best coached, thays why they haven't had to get out of 1st gear this six nations, everyone is just 2 plays ahead of the other team mentally
Yes, and they all know exactly what their job is, like cogs in a machine.
@@22grena totally ignores the decision making and skill it takes to keep that machine going. You need world class players to make it work
To be fair our pundits are pretty cringe too. I can't listen to them only Bernard Jackman
NZ pundits are arrogant. Honest opinion. But as a saffa in NZ i must admit this arrogance is limited to the pundits and not something the supporters partake in. Which i really do respect
Well said. i
the saffa fans can be very arrogant, at least a large percentage.
@@SMacCuUladh Sounds like it's not only saffas ;)
saffas love the smell of their own farts
@@SMacCuUladh funny how arrogant your comment is
Love watching the All Blacks and I am South African. Reason I do is because it is different in style. If we all played the same it would have boring. Viva le difference!
👍👍
I don't think that was ever up for debate here. All Saffas have huge respect for the All Blacks and their ferocity.
Very true. Ive loved watching SA wings since Habana and Peterson started their great partnership, the ABs backline piling through a ruck, tricky Argie 10s, Scottish emotion, English fullback competency etc etc, as an Irishman. Would be a dull world if we all did the same thing
Completely agree. The NZ pundits often represent you guys horrifically
In fairness, most pundits across most sports are deeply irritating and biased.
Mark on Two Cents rugby is one of the most informative and interesting commentators and analysts on rugby. Excellent observations. Keep up the good work
AGREE 100%.
The Breakdown needs some humility.
Aotearoa rugby podcast is great
JK goes in to try and dominate the discussion too much for mine
@@cassiusclay8916 100 percent.
There is a reason their viewership goes up when NZ lose
Other countries have pundits who are also arrogant, but I’m a kiwi and our pundits annoy the hell out of me. I think we’ve always been a bit that way - when England and Jonny Wilkinson were dominating in the early 2000’s our pundits were calling English rugby boring. I think we said something similar about the boks in the Victor Matfield era, but both England and South Africa were finding ways to win, they got the results that we weren’t. I love the All Blacks and am proud of the team’s accomplishments but it’s arrogant to think our rugby is any better than anyone else out there.
How boring would it be if everyone played the same style right?
As a Saffer I agree with you
Totally agree !🇿🇦
In Ireland certain sections of our media have become beyond insufferable, we've been very good for only a few years and suddenly think we're gods gift to the world😂
@@JMac_96yeah I've cringed quite a few times in the last few years
I surely don’t want the game mimicking rugby league. Scrum is an integral part of the game, a magnificent test of strength for both teams. It is so ingrained in rugby culture here in France I don’t see it going away soon. You only have to see the respect front rows have for each other, and the bond that these epic battles create amongst them to know that this is vital for the game.
I was commenting how JK said this weekend during commentary that he wants scrums abolished!
I get angered when high profile rugby personalities make comments that they do NO know what they are talking about! His comment was based upon that during the Blue vs Highlanders game that there was a scrum that took 4 mins to decide an outcome - ref did nothing about the fact that Highlanders were wheeling the scrum!
The point is who are these people to offer such radical ideas that would change the dynamics of the game!!!! Scrums are what makes this game separate from other sports in terms of uniqueness
Scrums are a re-starting point for a game
One of the main principles to this game is CONTEST right across every facet of the game therefore why should we abolish scrums to speed up the game
I am sick and tired of been told especially by fellow kiwi rugby experts that everyone should play the same game as the kiwis do - the so called delusional beautiful running game!
I will tell you this - NZers have become the dumbest rugby players in the world - under Foster I never seen such stupidity of watching the ABs since 2016 become a mediocre team!
@@thefobbie0034i mean, foster took charge in 2020. New zealand were still world class till at least 2019 and weren’t that far off it last year, to be fair
@@jakeclough8090 With respect Foster was in charge of our the attack from 2016 to 2019 and then became head coach from 2020 to 2023! The 2 biggest problems that the ABs have suffered from since 2016 are
1) discipline and errors
2) the lack of ability of our attack to counter rush defence in particular the umbrella defence
NZ rugby has become obsessed with this running game thinking that this is entertainment at its best when rugby is all about pressure! This was clearly shown in the 2023 world cup play-offs especially when you saw the ABs refrain from running rugby and started to take a more direct route through the forwards with 1-off the rucks and a kicking game - could have been better but aimless at most times!
Do not get me wrong I believe we had the players over the last 8 years to have won a world cup but our attacking rugby was some of the most dumbest rugby I have ever seen from an AB team!
NZ rugby use to be the masters of playing pressure rugby but now its almost like we have forgotten how to play this type of rugby!
The thing is that the scrum must be cleaned up. You can't have it slowing down the game with constant resets and infringements. Problem is that as the game has become more professional, teams professionally analyse what they can get away with rugby laws are so vague.
Maybe it's a bit of a reaction to the aura of the ABs as the best has been dented in recent years. Sir JK was a winger wasn't he? So scrums are a bit alien to him, I guess. Already too many RL changes, especially the goal line drop out. If you want League, play League. Union has a worldwide platform League would die for. Scrums are timewasters, but that can be changed easily by use of the clock. I would prefer more application of the short-arm penalty, a reduction in all kicks to one or two points, and try up to 6 points. Teams would immediately run the ball more IMHO.
Breakdown broke down. Thanks to Jeff and John.
Legends of the game, punishers on the microphone
Yes. Default attitude = Superior and patronising.
I now cannot watch ANY interaction with Jeff Wilson …… ever.
Like all nationalities, there are good Kiwis and bad Kiwis - but the bad ones take smugness to a whole new level.
It seems all the bad ones got jobs on tv after they retired. its better to watch on mute.
Watching Jeff Wilson trying ask a question is like trying to listen an audio book. :) I'm not sure there is ever a question in there
True, Not too keen on Wilson, but there are some from many nations who are patronizing, smug, and arrogant, the POMs, SAFFAs, Aussies and Welsh. there are a lot of Pundits like that.
@MusMasi I always felt like our official pundits were a lot more neutral than most. Not talking about the RUclips commentators, talking about the ex players on supersport etc
Tried watching the breakdown rugby pod cast /rugby pass absolute whinge fest. Wilson, Mills, Kirwan painful stuff. Unlike two cents rugby or egg chasers keep up the great work. 👏👏👏
Yes, can't stand the breakdown for that reason.
Especially John Kirwan
Aotearoa rugby podcast is great
@bkooo5363 listen to the rugby pod with big Jim and goodey, recently found the maul or nothing podcast and it's a great laugh.
I bet you keep coming back each week though right!
@@clarke1319 No, I don't watch it apart from the odd clip that appears elsewhere when one of them is coming out with something ridiculous, the commentary is bad enough.
Mate, I really cannot stomach The Breakdown. Those guys are insufferable. The best NZ rugby pod is with Bryn Hall and James Parsons, the Aotearoa Rugby Pod. Balanced, knowledgable and dynamic!
Every nation has them, I am afraid. England has Cive Woodward, SA has Mark Keohane, Ireland has Matt Williams. The list goes on. However, there are great pundits too, NZ Aotearoa rugby pod is excellent, so there is ballance, you just have to ignore the bullshit that is out there. Your reviews are great and ballanced, too. Just keep doing what you do, and leave the know it all types to their own opinions. People will vote with their views.
Cheers man yeah I started recording this once, mucked it up so started again.... That first time I mentioned Keohane and Williams 😅 Forgot to mention the second time around
Matt Williams isnt Irish, he's Australian....and we love him ☘️...and he's far less arrogant than The Breakdown crew.
@typhoontim125 I know he is Australian, but he is a pundit on Irish TV.
Agreed, Matt Williams is not taken seriously in Ireland, he is an entertainment piece. I don’t watch the breakdown regularly but did after the SA / AB game in the warm up matches and the commentary was a joke and was not good for the AB image internationally. However, these people do raise the interest in the game and get the blood boiling
@@brendonloftus2260 10/10 for that then...must have been the accent 😉
I am a proudly South African supporter, but so glad this has been acknowledged ...it is quite disgusting to listen to professionals speak with so much bias.. it is so disrespectful. Kudos for sharing your insight into the scourge of new Zealand ... and may I say other commentators as well
Agree with every word
Good on you mate. This why we love you.
As a Saffer Jeff Wilson is an absolute Muppet. Even when you see a journalist being on a rugby show then you know it's a hatchet job. More mins in the game does not mean a better quality game. It's all a lake duck attempt to change the game. Rugby union can be played in many ways. People want to see a contest. New Zealand rugby union is seeing a huge decline in participation and I think it's a coordinated effort to change things.
Plenty of Saffer muppets out there
@@nickrad6966keep to the subject pal !
@@nickrad6966 never said there weren't bad Saffer pundits. Watching this propaganda is not easy
The mins thing is just something simple for them to grab as a talking point, I don’t think there’s anything coordinated. It’s just they’re not very clever so they grasp at something simple and repeat it.
@@Chelaner it's more than a talking point. They are creating a new narrative and by rehashing it constantly they are trying to make it a topic of discussion even though it's never been one. How I see this it just looks like blatant manipulation.
I do find the RUclipsrs such as yourself and Eggchasers and more much better than the TV commentary across the board
Far superior!!👍👍👍👍
Egg chasers is an All Black hater
Yep exactly
Agreed 100%.. its so good you can see that and its why I watch your videos. You take an impartial view every time and comment on games for the love of rugby and not because you are a kiwi. This makes your channel enjoyable to all rugby fans regardless of nationality. Keep up the work . This Irish fan loves your channel.☘️
Mzwandile Stick said it best: "if John Kirwan is so disenchanted with the game, he should watch touch rugby".
Mark - great job as always. Random Rory Delap reference just brilliant. As an Irish fan love playing NZ but v very hard to watch NZ pundits like The Breakdown. Great rivalry makes for great games - sometimes your team wins and sometimes you get l beaten.
I love your impartiality. It takes experience of different perspectives to be able to see all sides. People that have less exposure to other ways of doing things tend to have a narrow and parochial view. Your approach is much more balanced and informed. Keep doing what you're doing Mark.
Btw I believe travel and learning other languages and cultures plays a huge part in developing such a mindset
Wildkard and Twocents done. Now Uggy, The Kiwi lads, Distracted, Hakatime and the rest need to make vids as well. Maybe you guys can help improve the comms down South.
Dude your work is outstanding and i love what you do. Thank you!
Dimitar from Durban
🐐👍
Yes you are right the breakdown is the worst arrogance over the long haul. They really fail to acknowledge excellence 8n opposing teams and that detracts from growing the viewership. No one enjoys watching sports where there isn't a contest. It's about overcoming string opposition where real satisfaction is derived.
How bout them Lions eh?
@@TwoCentsRugby won’t even climb the power rankings the Sharks are so bad. 😄
I get the feeling that NZ rugby is starting to isolate itself with this attitude. I kinda think this is one of the reasons why SA rugby will progress quicker than NZ and AUS as they are now exposed to northern hemisphere rugby and will have a way better understanding of how rugby is played and developing globally. As an Ireland fan I always thought it was a wise move for the SA teams to compete in the URC and European competitions to gain this exposure. The AB cloak of invincibility has slipped over the last few years and they do not hold the same aura that they once did. Don't get me wrong as they are still a great team with amazing players, but I think rugby is evolving quicker than they are adapting. I have a feeling that SA have a long term strategy that will keep them at the top for a long time.
as a die hard springbok AND more importantly rugby supporter I've always loved your channel. your rugby knowledge is OUTSTANDING and opinions honest & unbiased. I agree that many so called pundits are arrogant, it's easy to voice opinions from the sidelines, the aussies being the worst in all sporting codes.
For me, Andrew Merthens was easily New Zealand's best rugby commentators/pundit as he's not only someone who seemed to genuinely enjoy watching rugby, but is someone who's both very objective and informed when giving out statements, which made him a joy to listen to when watching a game of rugby.
Most of the current New Zealand commentators/pundits and callers are very hard to like and listen to as they don't seem to have that same objective enthusiasm for the game of rugby like Andrew Merthens had.
Now, I'm not saying that Australia has better commentators/pundits or callers as we also have a fair share of commentators/pundits and callers who are also nauseatingly subjective and supercilious, I'm saying that your observation is completely spot on and is something that needs to be formally addressed in some way, shape or form by the powers at be as no one likes hearing that type of subjective, supercilious rubbish from any caller or commentator/pundit when watching a game of rugby or any sport for that matter.
Great work, as always, my friend.
he is a joy to listen to on an english channel.
Always loved Mehrtens, intelligent, inciteful and humourous. Played rugby all over the world as well so it may contribute to his fairness to the players and teams.
Before the WC, when the Boks beat the ABs, JK and JW from Breakdown had quite a breakdown. It was like how dare our boys beat them. We're not that good. Never watched them again.
Rory Dulap an Irish international 😂 Leinster and Ireland play a great brand of rugby, but excitement comes in the titanic games, Ireland v NZ , France v SA and apart from New Zealanders and Italians not many are interested in the outcome of that one sided game…
Exactly right, seems the big network pundits don't enjoy the game anymore and spend most of their time criticizing the ref, TMO, any other style than the NZ way.How boring and arrogant. Love your show, keep it going
NZ used to be streets ahead of most rugby teams because the defences were much weaker than attacks. Now it's a different game, less trys in the big games. Ireland SA my heart rate never dropped for a second, while crowd was on the edge of their seats, like watching gladiators.
NZ never needed to rely on game management and smarts. They were too good for it to ever be an issue.
@@TrueFilter too good for the defences of the time absolutely
Thank you! Finally a New Zealander admits it. You actually are as knowledgeable about the game as these NZ pundits think they are, while being very humble.
In NZ local rugby pundits are not highly regarded people, I’m surprised you haven’t met more kiwis who’d agree with that wholeheartedly.
@@Chelaner I'm sure you meant to say they are "not highly regarded" "rugby pundits" as opposed to people.
This video is the reason I love your videos. You love the game no matter where it’s played and understand that each team or country has their own way of playing the game. I do find the pundits often don’t look beyond their own teams or leagues and feel that people like you, squidge and egg chasers are doing so much more for the sport then any of the ex professionals as you guys do it for the love of the game
Good vid. I also wondered about some of the dumb comments about Patchell, whom the commentator kept referring to simply as “the Welshman,” almost as if to underscore the oddity in his mind that such a guy could be in the 10 jersey during a Kiwi derby.
Couldn't agree more with your thinking Mark.
Thank the internet that we can get unbiased views from you and a few other content creators.
Hoping 1 day yourself, Wildkard, Eggchasers, Riaan Louw, KiwiLads, Squidge etc. can do some sort of monthly joint analyses to start rivalling the cringey mainstream media
Your points are very valid. New faces needed on most rugby shows in NZ
You’re a brave man to risk the scorn of those whom you criticize, but it is your objective and honest approach that gives you such credibility. Well done!
First, full credit for having a Scarlets jersey behind you on the wall. As a Welshman, living in NZ, I am gutted that Patchell is down here and not in our national team (apparently he and Gats don't get along). As for the Kiwi commentators.... Well, some of them aren't great, but there are idiot commentators all over the world. Believe it or not I quite like Justin Marshall, because he's pretty much explaining exactly what's happening and why - rugby for dummies, which is great when you watch a game with people who don't know the game.
Did you catch Moana Pasifika v Drua? Very entertaining, and looked a lot like League at times, although discipline was a significant factor.
Cheers.
Funnily enough I actually don't mind Marshy either! He sometimes talks about possible set plays based on where guys are standing - sometimes we can't see all those guys from our view on TV so I appreciate that kind of stuff. The Drua v Moana game was nuts! Loved it
Success for the All Blacks over a long time breeds pride and arrogance, and the TV pundits have run out of ideas on what to say. That is why we'd rather be watching you, a humble and respectful rugby supporter.
So glad you are discussing this subject. If world rugby follows Sir Kidding then we will have NRL and not Union. Yes do something about the scrums. Make them more competitive, like lineouts, make it clearer why penalties are given - like first to hit the ground or not engaging properly. But scrums are an important part of the game. the more important the scrum is the more teams will specialise forwards and the more space there will be for backs. Especially with the ABs, you have 23 backs in a team and they are losing in the physical contest and that is what Sir Kidding is upset about. Removing the Scrum is going to take away one of the most unique things about rugby - the massive difference in size and skills of the players.
Sir Kidding complains about playing time - in the WC game NZ vs Italy - which Sir Kidding said was the way the game should be played - the crowd had to watch at least 30 mins of teams taking kicks for conversions (tv audiences could watch replays) how boring - what is the difference when a team takes two minutes to set up a scrum - what about the games time lost with one team scoring 10 tries and the other team scoring one. TheNFL teams play 30 mins in three hours. In soccer teams play for 180 minutes and have 0-0 scores and they are great games - stadiums are full. Just scoring tries is not what rugby is about - it is about winning at the breakdown, creating space, physically on attack and defence, the strategy of defence and attack, using or not using the scrum, the kicking game - use force the scrums to play quicker - shock clock from when the ref blows the whistle, for scrums, line-outs, kicking, even making a decision to go for poles or the sideline and even for taking kicks for when a mark is taken. Yes speed up the game and the third ref can monitor this and punish the team failing - like what happened to Australia.
Sir Kidding and the rest of the break-down team are idiots and are only interested in AB rugby and that if AB rugby is not winning every time it is world rugby's fault. The ABs lost in the WC simply because they failed to kick points when the had the opportunity - they missed two kicks, SA known, Sir Kidding was quick to point this out in the SA-Ireland game. NZ beat SA in Australia in the 100th test simply because they made their kicks and SA did not - they is great games and forces teams to specialise - you might have a great kicker that is not as good a fly-half as some of the NZ greats - like Morne Steyn - but they always win the games with kicks - this means the opposing team should counter this with strategy - it as not the ref as Sir Kidding blames.
Arrogant is putting it kindly. Toxic blight is more accurate. The Breakdown has had a breakdown😂
Should have stuck with Tony...he was a good bloke
True - although Kirsty and Mils are great. Those other two always bickering with each other are just plain irritating.
Aotearoa rugby podcast is great
As a proud All Black supporter they make me cringe. I never watch it
Look as a irish supporter our pundits can be a bit arrogant as well at least they know the other country's players while i watched the nz breakdown six nations preview with Jeff Wilson and john kirwan and it was a total embarrassment they didn't have a clue at all. 😂. But as for the nz fans no i wouldn't classify them as arrogant they are very knowledgeable. So all country's do have arrogant pundits and some good ones too.
I don't get the calls to make it more like league. League already exists. What would the point be of having two codes that are exactly alike. If you prefer the way league operates, then watch that. You have that option. Union isn't holding you hostage, JK! 😅
They can have JK 🤣
People in NZ (especially Auckland like JK) are shrinking their view of the world to just Australia.
Yeah the NRL is solid in 2 states of Australia, and Union is dying there. But everywhere else League is either dying out or doesn’t even exist, and Union is growing.
Let’s be honest: League is the biggest failure of any professional sport. It has been around since 2008 yet it only ever flourished in two states of a small and unimportant country…
Lol. The NRL drives the most revenue of any domestic Rugby comp in the world with only French Rugby coming close. Sure it's only one country with a mediocre back-up in the UK but hardly a professional failure.
I agree with the original comment above. Let both codes be, you can watch both, one or none but they don't need to become the same
@@holcable And what is your source for that claim?
After all; it’s only two states of a small outpost country. And it can’t even pay its own way. Failure sport.
Respect you for making this video. Different styles are what make the game interesting.
The Rory Delap throw-ins were a thing of beauty, I lived in China as well back when that was happening and I remember the Chinese commentators saying that Stoke City had a team full of basketball players since every defender was over 190cm haha. I only watch Aoteroa Rugby Pod now, I like to watch the Breakdown sometimes and turn it off when I hear something idiotic, and that usually lasts about 2-3 minutes
Lol yeah man that was their "style" aye! It worked!
Its when rugby is a product, a commercial pay per view, advertisement dependent type thing, then its marketed aggressively. In Wales, we have BBC and S4C state broadcasters covering it, in free to air.., They are not trying to sell you subscriptions etc, so we get honest to God reality and critique. Johnathan Davies etc..On sky, BT sports, ITV, and a lot of Irish broadcasters (Virgin media in Ireland) you get Marketing, Hype, PR, Spin..just an entirely different outlook.
It isn't arrogance, it is commercial competition.
They don't want you consuming another product.
Welsh guy here, I can't watch league I find it boring.
Me too guy, me too
A Saffa
Agree totally. I like 7's but league is a joke to me.
Yeah, I have tried to watch League, but just can't see it. I can't watch soccer either, just not enough going on to hold my interest. League is like an entire team full of centres.
@@chrisjonesbathyeah 13 men no contest.
all i will say if.. rugby league was the global game trust me.. the game would have taken off
Annoys me as well. That commentary took me right out of a brilliant game.
I say this as someone who likes League but its the smaller code worldwide yet have you ever heard a single League supporter or commentator ever say it should be more like Union to grow the game? Never! The commentators, shockingly, actually like the sport how it is.
Why cant Union pundits over here be like that, its like they hate the sport they get paid to commentate
As a neutral, i prefer the All Blacks style, but if everyone played like that it would be terrible, like the old saying, if everyone’s popular no one is. You need someone to play power so the speed will work. It’s the different styles that make it work. If everyone was fast you wouldn’t get half the breaks we love. And if everyone was powerful tackles wouldn’t look as dominant
They have the same mentality and mantra in boxing: Style makes fights.
Nobody wants to see the same 2 styles battle it out for the same result every time - you want to compare speed with power, a brawler or one punch knockout guy with a technical master boxer etc.
These pundits are just plain arrogant. No other pundits anywhere in the world, no matter how nationalistic they are, ever say anything like this "our way is the only way" stuff. coaching teams work with the talent pool they have on offer and then work to maximize their strengths.
Simple as that really.
I love kiwis and your passion for rugby. JK is in a small subset of people who I would call a rugby snob. The only way to play the game is the way he envisions it in his head and I imagine the game in his head is basically just 15 wings a side playing touch rugby.
I totally agree with 2 cents. Keep Rugby league out of union. Anybody who doesn't get the tactical subtlety of union is not a fan anyway!
I like League and I like Union, Keep them different no need to copy League, I do not mind 40/20s though as it should open up defenses but keep the scrum as a contest please.
@@MusMasiTried watching league a few times, the scrum is just embarrassing, plus giving away possession after x amount of plays just too frustrating for a Union brain to take, best for me to pretend it does not exist.
@@MusMasi I'm sorry but I don't like league at all. Boring restart after boring restart! No thanks.
What people fail to understand is that the main principle to rugby which makes it so different from other sports is that if you look at it you have a contesting principle in every facet of the game - lineout, scrum, tackle ball, ruck, kick & chase! Rugby league is just hit and bash for 6 tackles then turnover the ball - you cannot contest tackle ball, you cannot contest scrums, there is NO lineouts!
The biggest problem with rugby is that there is a certain section of high profile rugby experts who believe that entertainment is the name of the game therefore rugby should be ALL about the flashy running high skill rugby. What those halfwits fail to understand which was proved in the last rugby world cup is that rugby has and will always be about PRESSURE!
@@thefobbie0034 Correct. What these dumb bozos are always looking for is instant gratification!
Always have and always will love NZ rugby union. As a SAFFA, I know that the world will not be the same if there is no Abs & Boks. Commentators and pundits will come and go - the game will always be a true test of strength and endurance and is growing phenomenally in Europe and the Americas.
"Certain parts of the human body"? (had a good chuckle there). Good analogy, as always!
Feel the same about Bok rugby. They will always be our benchmark. I was supposed to be home last month for three weeks. The condition was that we win the final. We got pipped by the Boks instead. So I changed plans and went to South Africa instead to pay my respects to the world champions. I think going with that attitude of respect opened doors. Unbelievably, I somehow got a free, private tour of Ellis Park. Went into the coaches' boxes for both teams, the Boks' dressing room and the visitors dressing room. Went to the press room, the injured players room, the refereeing team's dressing room. Sat in the seat Nelson Mandela sat in when he watched the rugby. Saw the security setup and how it works. Went down to the field and walked around on the turf in bare feet. Took loads of photos and a few vids. Imagined the ABs getting a victory there later in the year. It was a total buzz! I agree, the Kiwi pundits on the Breakdown - a show I no longer bother with - have no idea how one-eyed they are. There's more than one way to skin a cat. The NZ game looks nice, but it didn't deliver a world cup last year. Chatting at Addis Ababa airport with an Englishman on the way home, he thought the team that wanted it most won the world cup. He thought the ABs coach didn't have that eye of the tiger to win it. I agreed with him, and said I think we would have won if the Boks creamed the ABs at Ellis Park last time out, which we were expecting. Somehow the ABs sneaked it, Fozzy survived - which he never should have - and the Boks did what they do well, grind out the tight ones and keep the world cup in Africa. No more rugby for me for a while here in China.
@@stephenconeglan1173 Love your sentiment, bro! Must have been an awesome experience at Emirates Airline Park (previously known as Ellis Park) I clearly remember the game last time out when you guys annihilated us! Totally read our game plan! Its a pity about your assignment. You will miss an awesome season ahead, mate! Cheers!
Love this video. The NZ pundits are appalling arrogant. JK on the Breakdown is a particularly egregious example.
I wouldn't tarnish them all based on cranky old men. Aotearoa podcast is up there with the best, they actually seem to watch Rugby outside NZ below the international level.
Yeah definitely every country has good ones and bad ones aye 🍻
As a Saffer really enjoy the Aotearoa podcast. Balanced view. Breakdown somehow like immature kids. Used enjoy it but no longer
Aotearoa is great, makes up for the breakdown😅
I always remember when Sir John Kirwan arrogantly dismissed the Pumas before THAT win back in 2020 in Australia.
NZ pundits are arrogant (remember Wilson's near breakdown after NZ lost in England to the Boks) until they are humbled by defeats.
To be fair, the Pumas should never come within 15 points of the ABs. But we had the Fozzie factor.
@@Badmansbandwow! Straight over your head ay. I'll put it in the words of Pablo Mantera... they have pride too. They love their country too. It wasn't the first time nor will it be the last time that the underdog actually comes out on top. Have some respect bro
@@RD-sp5us na, Fozzie led the ABs to records that should never have fallen. Stop being such cuck.
Great video. From a true rugby fan. Salute you!
I'm a Wallabies supporter but I was at the Italy v All Black in Lyon and it was so boring that I had to drink 8 pints of beer just to get through it. I'm pretty sure I didn't watch the second half very much. I was very disappointed in the Italians performance but the AB's wasn't surprising.
Love the rant, you’re normally so balanced and considered……. It is a pity that the crowds aren’t there for these matches. One question about league…. If it’s so perfect how come it doesn’t exist outside of aus and england? Is there a professional competition in NZ?………
In my view, it’s really a JW and JK issue. Never express opinion in any way other than if their view is a fact. I get that pundits need to have an opinion but these two simply come across as arrogant and frankly, lacking in knowledge from outside NZ
Thanks dude. I get the same message from commentators and the like in NZ. The game can be played in different ways which makes is fascinating. I love the aura of the ABs and long may it continue.
Cheers bru
It's really just Jeff and Kirwin. Tweedle dee and Tweedle dum. Highly annoying duo.
Your empathy with good rugby is unmatched! Unfortunately people who only crave success are frequently arrogant especially if they win! They usually are very very unsportsmanlike when their team loses!
To answer fozzy on who wants to view what.
All black vs Italy RUclips highlights viewing numbers (world rugby channel and ITV)
860K
Bok vs Ireland viewing numbers
1990k views.
So twice as many people prefer watching the boring game.
Glad I could clear that up for you Fozzy.
I mean that’s not a good comparison at all, people assume NZ would beat Italy! If Italy had won the views would be much much higher, SA vs Ireland was a much anticipated match up that was bound to draw in more views
Lol mate, I'm just responding to what the actual coach moaned about. His argument was that people want more flowing try filled rugby and a billion points being scored vs a tight game that has luls and peaks.
The numbers are definitive.
I love your take on this stuff mate.
A voice of sanity.
As you were.
Carry on.
Still waiting for Sir John and Goldys interview after the world cup????
Took them almost 4 months to come back up for air haha
After losing to England in the 2019 semi final it was the only breakdown episode they didn't upload to you tube 😅😅😅
Saw Mills, Kirwan and Wilson giving their take on the Moana Pasifika game, raving about the 15 (who had a very good game), but not a single mention of the outrageous Patchell pass that committed the defender and gave him pretty much a walk in. The Highlanders have a real diamond on their hands with Patchell, if they can keep him fit, he’ll shine for them, he can do it all.
I saw Wildkards epic angry rant about it too, was glorious!
It's understandable why we rant about this too!
Danny Cipriani was at the Rebels a while back and he is a running 10 and did some magical stuff!?
And did they see Finn Russel and Jack Crowly in the 6N this year? Jeeez!
I think you hitting the nail on the head. You are always unbiased with all your content. Keep it up
There are arrogant or what is perceived to be arrogant professional and amateur pundits everywhere. I go back to the world cup. I'm Irish and was sickened by some of the comments I saw. Ie that Ireland had thrashed South Africa, that New Zealand had thrashed Ireland and that the Boks had thrashed France and New Zealand, whereas the absolute truth that all of those matches were just close games that for the bounce of a ball or a different refereeing decision could easily have gone the other way. I have and always will be a fan of New Zealand All Blacks rugby. They and France always seem to have the ability to cut defences open and score from their own 22. That's the one thing I feel that Ireland lacks. Don't get me wrong, I love what we are doing, but we don't seem to produce absolute speedsters who aren't going to be caught once they make a line break. Love your channel. Always very fair commentary on what's happening!
Yep... Hit it on the nail right there .. unfortunately NZ rugby pundits are arrogant and bias at times ... That's why I appreciate your channel 👌🍻 I used to watch your country's rugby program , The Breakdown quite often, but their bias and arrogance has put me off lately... Thinking back to when SA gave NZ a hiding at Twickenham last year, only for the pundits on The Breakdown to come out and say that they're still miles better than SA and not even acknowledging that SA were superior in that game ... Maybe it stems from the fact that for years NZ were the best in the world, and so the confidence and arrogance was born out of that, but the rugby landscape in the world has changed quite significantly... It's time for some (not all New Zealanders) to accept that....
"only for the pundits on The Breakdown to come out and say that they're still miles better than SA and not even acknowledging that SA were superior in that game " You know that's not true.
Besides why is it that the likes of you need to watch a rugby programme ...any rugby programme ...anywhere... to have your egos massaged.
Such needy precious people.
@@clarke1319what was wrong with what he said? And why would that make SA's in general, needy and precious? You want to deny that it is the topic at hand? Or the fact Goldie and co completely ignored how dominant a performance that was, scoreline notwithstanding. Or that Goldie said, in that condascending way (kinda like you here) that that was best The Boks had. They couldn't improve on that performance. No7 PSDT showed him then, didnt he? Maybe its not just NZ pundits...
@@RD-sp5usIts self explanatory. I've told you.
Besides I never said anything about South Africans. You mentioned SA. I didn't.
"the likes of you" is what I said. I stand by my comment. You and people like you are needy. Get over yourself.
We have some super arrogant pundits here in Ireland too ( make me cringe ) - and the way they talk doesn't reflect how 99% of us fans think. I LOVE Springbok and NZ rugby ... just learning how to zone out the divisive click-merchants in every country is important. I find the commentary/analysis on Supersport to be pretty fair and enjoyable to watch
thats why we love you Mark
All this talk about needing to be more like league be careful what you wish for. As an Aussie who never played rugby I’m a convert I love all of it including scrums. One of the best games I’ve watched was a draw 8 - 8 I think Wallabies vs France maybe 8 years ago ?
Great video, I feel like most rugby fans acknowledge bias in commentary - which is not unique to NZ by any means. Its good to call it out, because it detracts when viewing on TV. Excellent point about the different approaches to the game, that's the most interesting aspect at the highest level in my opinion.
Agreed Mark, god bless the rugby one eyed eh!🤦♂️🤣
More observational than rant, which is why i always enjoy your thoughts on our great sport mate.
Irishman here. Watched Kirwin and Wilson recently preview the 6 Nations. Wilson has to read the names of Irish and French players from a prompt sheet, while Kirwin named ONE home-grown Irish international, Sexton and ONE Frenchman, Dupont.They seem utterly unprepared which probably speaks to their lack of respect.
I think you hit the nail on the head. JK and co. have falsely equated the NRL success with a more free flowing game. Yes, Union can get bogged down a little and yes we should make some improvements to keep good flow. Yes the quality of league games themselves are good, but, by far the biggest reason for NRLs bigger success is at a competition management level by Peter Vylandis and Abdo etc. Players genuinely able to change clubs in the off season, clubs with identity and marketing, social media and tv that leans into the tribal nature of it.
Look at what an amazing breath of fresh air it was for the comp to see the Waratahs beat the crusaders. Only reason it happened was because of a rebalancing of talent (Richie Moanga overseas etc.) one way to achieve this would be to have a more liquid Australia and New Zealand player market. My one suggestion is allow NZ and Aus players to qualify for All Blacks and Wallabies if they play at any club in super rugby, not just the NZ teams or Aus teams respectively (yes I know Aus now looks further afield in any case). Introduce a draft at the start of the season and two transfer windows either side of the season. The action on the field is the icing on the cake, it’s about creating conversations about the games and the players and their off seasons and transfers and challenges and stories that creates a great commercial product.
Great vid 2C! I'm a saffa living in France. I watch a lot of European Rugby and I still try to keep an eye on super rugby. Thing is that the game is much more competitive globally these days. You have to always ask yourself what you like more, your team or the game. Now sure I will always support the Springboks and hope they win, but I love the game just a little bit more than the boks. I have the feeling that for some pundits (NZ and SA), the historical dominance they enjoyed is more important than the game. Anyway, good to hear your opinion on this because I think you kiwis, unlike some pundits, really love and respect the game of rugby more than most.
You're very right about this contentious issue in our game! "Northerners" can play super rugby and vice versa. No doubt! Why does it have to be one or the other? Look at Oli Jager, went down to super rugby to ply his trade and now an Irish International! If more players went to different leagues (super rugby, top14 etc) surely our game would thrive
Spot on. On both sides of the Tasman we are poorly served by the so called experts. So many fancy themselves as comedians. Insider jokes; forced laughter. I watched the main Kiwi panels in the lead up to SRP 2024. Most didn’t even mentioned the Aussie teams. One prominent ‘expert’ suggested AUS rugby was such a basket case, its teams would struggle to win any games V the Kiwis this year. Arrogance? After the Crusaders defeat last night, all we heard from them was ‘wow … nobody saw that coming.’ Really? The $9 about the Waratahs was massive overs. A relatively inexperienced Crusaders side, up a against a side with plenty of battle hardened (genuine Wallaby) experience, and a sprinkling of exciting comers. And a side hungry to restore its credibility and that of its coach. Not a bad case for a bet at the big price. Thank you very much. The form around the Chiefs a bit of a query now. No surprise to see the Brumbies tickle them up. The Reds are going to be a much sterner opponent for the Highlanders than the Force were, and the Reds are coming off a win against the Waratahs. Kiss will have done his homework on the young Highlanders, and watch out. An Aussie treble? ‘Wow… nobody saw that coming’. Credit to you and Gazza. You both variously made the point that the relative strength of AUS rugby shouldn’t be measured in the failure of Eddie Jones’ B team at the WC. One swallow doesn’t make a summer. But it’s a positive start.
Appreciate your self-awareness.
RSA Super Rugby teams always felt handled in NZ. Since pulling out & going to URC, both NH & RSA have gained from it. NZ has lost, and AUS is now in terminal decline. The two sides of "Faxgate, 'Lets screw the Jaapies", 2 was company & 3's a crowd was the gameplan & still is to a degree in the TriNations, and RSA weren't gonna play patsy forever. Hoisted on its own Petar.
Comparing with league is a NZ/AUS fascination. Like Porsche always worrying about what the next car Lada may bring out, and being terrified and needing to be more like the Lada.
I loved the RWC2024 it was great entertainment, even one running around needing to fix it, seems more because Boks went B2B, it must be fixed away from RSA strengths. NZ/IRE, RSA/IRE, RSA/FRA were titanic great rugby fixtures. Nothing like any of them in 1987/1991/1999/2003/2007/2011/15.
They could Fix how ENG played the game kicking high balls that got other teams hated & marginalised, not accurate that they came 3rd they were about 6th best, Fiji were robbed & ARG went to sleep.
I remember the first game I saw Isa Nacewa play for Leinster. His first two pieces of involvement were to drop two high balls and I remember thinking "who tf IS this guy? Why is he in the team?" But quickly became my favourite player.
Let's put it this way. As an Irishman, I was lapping up every bit of NZ coverage I could get when we were playing the 3 test series down there as I found the arrogance truly astounding. They seemed to know virtually nothing about our players and were so dismissive and disrespectful. Though our pundits here are woeful too it has to be said.
Hah! Wilson and Kerwin are clowns. Make no mistake, Saffa has their own as well but those 2 really make me laugh at this point.
You are right on the money.
I agree. It would be awful for a homogenise the game and we should celebrate the different styles that the teams bring. I love the South African arm wrestle style. I love the kiwi skill and the French flare and Irish attack. All very different and that’s what makes it special. A team needs to figure out how to adapt their style to beat their opponents style. Rugby. That’s it. Leave it alone.
Never expected a Rory Delap reference from this channel. Genuinely the first team I thought of with your other sports analogy.
I don't need to watch the video, the answer is 100% unequivocally, YES!
Thanks for bringing this up. As a South African it's hard to play second fiddle to arrogance. The AB are a great team however no one is infalible.
Mate you are spot on on everything you said, unfortunately we all can't play the same or the game will be so boring and uninteresting, unfortunately the Kiwi pundits no matter the game or team are never as talented or good or even exciting as Kiwi teams, so to that all I have to say as a South African is 4 more years boys 4 more years, I truly enjoy your unbiased sober analysis especially your World Cup coverage, cheers from South Africa!!!!!
The answer is absolutely yes. It's very clear they either don't watch NH rugby or they watch it through a critical lens.
JK doesn't enjoy rugby, JK enjoys getting his name in the mix and the more controversial he is, the more his name pops up in the media. That's his priority imo.
The fans are like this too to some extent. I hear a lot of comments about the number of points on the board, how there isn't enough tries in NH rugby to make it enjoyable. The irony is, the stadiums are always full in NH and Super Rugby constantly fails to attract decent crowds.
Hi Mark, I agree with you! Rugby league is a completely different game. It’s a different culture and has different roots…they use the same shape ball, tackle and score tries, but that’s all! Sanzar tried an experiment to speed the game up in Super Rugby in the early 2000’s called the ELVs. It was dumped after 2 years because Union is a game for all body shapes, different body types for different positions. What ended up happening was having 15 loose trio/wing backs…try scoring rate went up but it had no strategy…run and pass was it, and it became like a basketball match! Exciting at first, but once the novelty wore off, it was dumped, thankfully. If Union went to a League style, the same thing would happen! NZ teams need to play their own style and test it against overseas teams to gauge its effectiveness. If it isn’t up to scratch, fine tune is by using competitors’ moves, tactics and strategy, and adapt. That’s how Union rugby has always operated. 🏉💪😎🍺🇿🇦
So well put! I also cannot fathom the League vs Union comparison or the whole thing about rugby being too slow or scrums being boring. Look at the NFL. Games take 3 hours to complete. During which the actual ball in play time is 11minutes. Why don't they have a problem with low attendance? Their massive stadiums are full. These pundits need to do a bit more home work about what draws people to a sport and gets them committed. I would argue that rugby's biggest hurdle is that the laws are too complicated and not enforced consistently.
Really enjoyed this, nice to have a longer form video of your opinions on a specific topic.
Second video ive seen about the shambles commentary that ruined what was an incredible game highlanders vs blues
That game was honestly great, but the comms less so ....
The Foster comment was hilarious at the time because you could probably count on one hand the number of people who would rather watch a complete blowout training run than a classic rugby contest.
Out of all the SR commentators, NZ or AUS, Morgan Turinui is my favorite. He seems to actually understand the game, he knows the laws, he knows the players and does his research and he can talk about what's going on in a way your average punter can understand. The game needs more like him.
Lekke Mark! Spot on. Its good that you talk about this. Its actually silly when you think about it, rugby union & league is different games alltogether. Lets keep it that way. And yes every team has its own character & style thats what makes the game interesting! Keep it that way!
Rugby is a culture and not a product. You can have your filet mignon occasionally but 9 times out of 10 it's pap and vleis. That's culture, don't know if I made sense.
thanks for the shout out mate! much appreciate it. Im so glad im not the only person whos disgruntled by this. Cheers!
No worries man! I can't help but wonder if someone at Stan saw your vid because Justin Harrison checked himself today when saying "we love scrums by the way"
haha i dont know, but i saw him at my local shopping centre before the rwc, i said hi to him, so he definitely lives near me, and the commentary today (saturday) was much much better😅@@TwoCentsRugby
Watched the NRL,Broncos vs Roosters and it was fun.First time ive seen that version of the sport. Has a lot of contintuity and seems much simpler than Union with its complicated rules at ruck time, mauls,etc.But it doesn't feel ....epic.
I am not a Kiwi.
In my experience the Springboks pundits and especially the fans are more arrogant, and to feel they’re the best are so narrow minded they’re almost like kids
And I * agree with those views on your whiteboard. The All Blacks have the most consistent abilities of any team. Full stop
There is something to it, though. The rugby of the All Blacks and Super Rugby generally ARE better/prettier than everybody else. That's coming from an Ireland fan living in the states with a dad from Ireland who thinks the same thing.