The upstroke is to remove drag (if there was no up then you wouldn't go anywhere). Do you know if you could never upstroke, but rotate the paddles parallel to the hull as the oar moves moves forward, and still move the hull forward?
Cool build! Never heard of dragon boats before, so i kept thinking of it as a Greek trireme, just smaller. For more speed I think you need to pull oars up before the 'power stroke' is done, that way they don't act like brakes when they stop. Also i think you can still do it mechanically as in your original idea by having one main link go down the middle of the entire boat with suspension springs acting as slip joints between that link and each of the ores. Might have to get creative with attachment since as far as i remember TM springs can't stretch, only compress.
You could try upping the speed of the up and down motion to get the oars into and out of the water quicker. Increasomg buoyancy could bring you up a little and might reduce wave interference with the sensors. Then increase the angle of raising and lowering to compensate. But with more buoyancy you'd probably need some bottom weights to reduce tipping. Long live Bert! (Burt?)
Basic things you have to know: there is a major island on the west north east ans south, you start at the southern group of islands, each major area has a collector zone, but make sure you bring the blue parts to the blue collector, the red ones to the red collector, etc.
I think oars use aerodynamics like other parts and the return stroke just creates a backwards stroke but in the air. Likely break complexity if you are already close but they would need to rotate 90° to avoid that. Edit: spelling
you should change the tilt sensors for delayed or gates. that way when you press the button the hinge turns, then the or gate gets triggered after a delay.
Could you a trigger mechanism out of a rotating servo and 4 sensors that trigger sequentially and have one move the oars up, then forward, then down, then back? If they were proximity sensors would the waves not be a problem? if you had two, one for each side, would you be able to turn by only rowing on one side? Loved the vid, and the idea, it makes me want to get the expansion and go tinker around.
Not sure how trailmaker logic works but cant you just set up a logic timer loop or something that automatically does the up down and forwards movements
You may be able to set it up so a spinning servo spins and you can measure the state of that for your boat states so it just holding a button And if you wanted you could put one set of sensor per side if the output of a sensor is unlimited
Nessy’ awkward cousin from the caterpillar side of the family. I bet Christmas is fun at their house lmao. I bet bert gets everyone socks in stockings 😂. Merry Christmas 🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦
Have every other oar alternate to help push along faster. Meaning while half are up the other have are down pushing . Also to help steer better make it so one side strokes and the other dont when you push the direction you want to go .
The paddle boat is the historical solution to having oars producing 'perpetual forward pressure.' Unless the oars have no collision in TrailMakers, which it doesn't appear they do, then a wheel is the only way things aren't going to get all tangled. But, you know, a paddle dragon might just work...
I feel like it would be cool if you made it so instead of turning with the rudder, you control the right and left oars separately, that way you can turn by paddling with one side
would be! but lucky for me, actual dragon boats have a rudder :) I might revisit the row boat mechanism from a more traditional perspective at some point :)
4:20 your problem is the sideways distance from base (boat) to shackle gets shorter, in this trailmakers design and you only compensated for front to back, not sideways freedom
Very cool! Sucks that the waves mess you up. I hope everything at work is ok! Most Viking Longships had a sail, I know you said you were at complexity limit, but perhaps go to 8 sails per side? Either way thanks soo much for this!!!
would be really cool if you could stagger the oars movement to a catapillar like motion. It'll prolly be a bit slower, but have a more coninuious push forwards. Making that steer doh.... I have no clue xD Edit: lol, if only I waited 2 minutes before typing this comment xD
one problem is the water physics in this game give your craft hardly any momentum or maybe too much friction with the water, I wonder if hydrofoils would fix some of the issues with that?
I don't know why he picked to be a youtuber over an engineer, sure it requires more work, but it would probably be more enjoyable and have a higher pay income
Around 7:21 you were talking about the size of the object you're using to test your trying to say I can't get words to work Someone I'm actually trying to say is in history they were actually some really really big ships and when I say big ships I mean massive ships especially in when the Egyptians were in power and their golden age I basically look like giant squares If I remember their design correctly I may be forgetting design all
Easier version have 3 small hinges. 1st one is delayed by 1 and duration 1 and pause 1 and facing backwards. 2nd one is facing forwards duration 1 pause 1. 3rd hinge is facing down delay 0.70 duration 1 pause 1. You can change it to make it into a wave movement from front to back that’s realy complex but one reason it’s better than this is that it can be toggle and you only press 1 button. One disadvantage it adds a lot of complexity. If you add 8 oars its 80 complexity so I suggest only using bout 4-5 on each side basically 8-10 in total. Edit: I think I might try this because it’s realy good… god dam you have a big brain Komso!
Waves aren't messing you up as much as the different settings on the 7th servo of the right side tho ^^' Check it's speed It looks different than the others and makes the oars collides. Also, you wer sooo close to getting the mechanical version working! Please give it another try :) it won't get messed up by the waves :D And finally : if you could find a way to delay every oars a little so you can always have 1 pushing *.* that'll probably be more efficient but it will most certainly look amazing :D Anywho : great idea man :D I love the look of that dragon boat :D
Silly question, but have you tried out a game called From The Depths before? If you like vehicle builders you ought to at least check out some youtube videos of players doing stuff in it/tournaments people hold between different ships, to see if it looks interesting. One feature of the game is that you can set AI blocks to handle vehicle behavior (the campaign goes with a sort of RTS style with the vessels you make so being able to let the ships you yourself aren't on behave on their own is useful). It also means people can do tournaments based on ship blueprints people send in to them if they want, which is why doing searches for the game will tend to bring up some tournament footage too. Anyway, just saw your video in my recs, and this game does give me some FTD vibes, and a search of your channel didn't result in any videos from that game, so I thought I'd just comment about it.
@@darealkosmo If you do, start with some workshop or viewer submissions content-wise since it does have a bit of a sharp learning curve (you can start anyway you want playing-wise, but for making videos it might be better to show off one faction's ships against another in the editor and then slapping a user ship in till you get a bit more used it). Maybe then play around with trying to upgrade a lower level ship to be better, before making your own from scratch. Its definitely a game you learn better by trying to play around with and fix weaknesses of an existing ship. So you don't have to learn every system at once.
@@darealkosmo holy crap you're still looking at the comments!? Haha. I agree I just wanted to share and I think it would eliminate the drag from the oars staying in the water after paddling and possibly allowing for reverse?
You should do some sort of pirate ship battle in the vortex with the multiplayer crew!
Bruh that would be so chaotic, fun, and hard
@@xiChann that’s the point
You can’t control vehicles well in the vortex but who knows maybe they will
o
Like in pirates of the Caribbean
The upstroke is to remove drag (if there was no up then you wouldn't go anywhere). Do you know if you could never upstroke, but rotate the paddles parallel to the hull as the oar moves moves forward, and still move the hull forward?
Cool build! Never heard of dragon boats before, so i kept thinking of it as a Greek trireme, just smaller.
For more speed I think you need to pull oars up before the 'power stroke' is done, that way they don't act like brakes when they stop. Also i think you can still do it mechanically as in your original idea by having one main link go down the middle of the entire boat with suspension springs acting as slip joints between that link and each of the ores. Might have to get creative with attachment since as far as i remember TM springs can't stretch, only compress.
The dragon head on front is really cool ngl
19:30 you would have slightly more power when doing smol delay to some of padles
You could try upping the speed of the up and down motion to get the oars into and out of the water quicker. Increasomg buoyancy could bring you up a little and might reduce wave interference with the sensors. Then increase the angle of raising and lowering to compensate. But with more buoyancy you'd probably need some bottom weights to reduce tipping. Long live Bert! (Burt?)
Try mounting the oar on a suspension piece
in 2253, kids will be learning about how kosmo sailed the seven seas with bert
Why not just use two steering hinges (one for up/down movement, and a delayed one for forward/back movement) attached to a loop?
Basic things you have to know: there is a major island on the west north east ans south, you start at the southern group of islands, each major area has a collector zone, but make sure you bring the blue parts to the blue collector, the red ones to the red collector, etc.
I think oars use aerodynamics like other parts and the return stroke just creates a backwards stroke but in the air. Likely break complexity if you are already close but they would need to rotate 90° to avoid that.
Edit: spelling
you should change the tilt sensors for delayed or gates. that way when you press the button the hinge turns, then the or gate gets triggered after a delay.
keep up with the boat videos they're great :D
Thanks! :D
How does suspension react with the growing mechanism ?
Rowing
Could you a trigger mechanism out of a rotating servo and 4 sensors that trigger sequentially and have one move the oars up, then forward, then down, then back? If they were proximity sensors
would the waves not be a problem? if you had two, one for each side, would you be able to turn by only rowing on one side?
Loved the vid, and the idea, it makes me want to get the expansion and go tinker around.
Not sure how trailmaker logic works but cant you just set up a logic timer loop or something that automatically does the up down and forwards movements
Maybe add a sail to the center like the old batlle rowboat kind of thing cuz if theres wind they can save energy by using wind power
A Multiplayer surfing challenge is now mandatory.
You may be able to set it up so a spinning servo spins and you can measure the state of that for your boat states so it just holding a button
And if you wanted you could put one set of sensor per side if the output of a sensor is unlimited
Love your creativity and ingenuity!!
Thank you! :)
Nessy’ awkward cousin from the caterpillar side of the family. I bet Christmas is fun at their house lmao. I bet bert gets everyone socks in stockings 😂. Merry Christmas 🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦
im sure scrapman is gonna build an old 1830's wheel boat(the one steamboat willy drove, idk what its called but it uses a paddle wheel on each side)
@Shiven Pema yep. idk what type of boat its called but i do know it uses paddle wheels either on the rear or one on each side. it uses steam.
If you want a piston that can rest and be moved by somethibg else, just use a suspension on low power, it does the same thing!
Cool build! Nice seeing your process.
paddle wheel boat would you cool to see. maybe a hydrofoil? ideas. :)
How about delaying the Input more and more from Front to Back. I think It would make a cool Wave Motion...
Have every other oar alternate to help push along faster. Meaning while half are up the other have are down pushing . Also to help steer better make it so one side strokes and the other dont when you push the direction you want to go .
You should try using one button for the entire motion of the oars and use eaxh button for each side, if that makes sense?
Dude I'd love to see like a paddle wheel boat like a ferry. That could be neat.
Kosmo: I wanna start collecting the artifacts
Also Kosmo: Spends the entire episode building a rowboat
A way you could make it slightly more accurate would to put the controls and angle sensors on an AND gate so the waves don't mess you up.
The paddle boat is the historical solution to having oars producing 'perpetual forward pressure.' Unless the oars have no collision in TrailMakers, which it doesn't appear they do, then a wheel is the only way things aren't going to get all tangled. But, you know, a paddle dragon might just work...
I feel like it would be cool if you made it so instead of turning with the rudder, you control the right and left oars separately, that way you can turn by paddling with one side
would be! but lucky for me, actual dragon boats have a rudder :) I might revisit the row boat mechanism from a more traditional perspective at some point :)
@@darealkosmo awesome! also ty for responding to my comment, it means alot to me :D
Beautiful Drakkar!
Nice work holmes:)
thanks dawg!
indeed. If I had to make one I would've just beute forced the timing cus I don't know how to do anything else......
That's really good. I'll try with out the sensors.
Darn the videos over ;-; that was incredibly fun to watch.
Use straight suspension for the oar
4:20
your problem is the sideways distance from base (boat) to shackle gets shorter, in this trailmakers design
and you only compensated for front to back, not sideways freedom
You should fill of the spaces inside the head and tail, because it generates drag. Use aerodynamic so you could see.
Very cool! Sucks that the waves mess you up. I hope everything at work is ok! Most Viking Longships had a sail, I know you said you were at complexity limit, but perhaps go to 8 sails per side? Either way thanks soo much for this!!!
The ship should steer using the paddles like tank steering
or make it so you can control one paddle at a time.
9:47 looks like a cartoon duck
Kosmo! Airship! I commented the same thing on Scrapman's video, but I want to see how your design would differ from his!
Bert is awesome! Great build!
Thanks Mako!
Make a speed boat nextt
I think Kosmo would do another Trailmakers campaign with Scrapman. It'd be cool to see a two person ship for it. Can't wait.
he should make a hornitchoper with the sails
ornithopter?
I doubt he would make a horny helicopter.
search it
I’ve said this so many time on your channel and kan and scrap man’s it would be awesome to see a multiplayer Monday using trail makers Physics
Trailmakers was never an MM thing but we're definitely gonna do some MP stuff with it :)
It's ok Bert, I also have a small tail
Honestly, you could probably brute force your way to the edge of the map using a submarine or some sort of jet
scrapman did that, it's calm deep down
For the relaxed piston why didn't you use suspension that could have worked quite well
would be really cool if you could stagger the oars movement to a catapillar like motion. It'll prolly be a bit slower, but have a more coninuious push forwards. Making that steer doh.... I have no clue xD
Edit: lol, if only I waited 2 minutes before typing this comment xD
pretty sure that first one failed bc it was spinning the hinge that was attached to the servo, a ball hinge would prolly have been better
nvm lol
You should have the ores go down in a wave like pattern I feel like that would be more consistent
why did you not use suspension for the unpowered piston
^^ one of the things on the right is connected to the logic (sensors) on the left
woopsie
Do this mean multiplayer will come back?
You could build a jetski that you can jump on waves
one problem is the water physics in this game give your craft hardly any momentum or maybe too much friction with the water, I wonder if hydrofoils would fix some of the issues with that?
You are so obviously engineer in your heart. :) Overthinking pretty much everything xD
I don't know why he picked to be a youtuber over an engineer, sure it requires more work, but it would probably be more enjoyable and have a higher pay income
Burt is awesome.
Try tank steering for turning.
Can't wait for galley-ramming-fight in rough seas with your mp-dudes.
This was a great video Kosmo :)
Burt the Derp Dragon... Fantastic Boot XD
“Gota hold on with all your viking might”
Do you know the reference?!
GG on that man looks nice!
Thanks woody! cool profile pic!
Around 7:21 you were talking about the size of the object you're using to test your trying to say I can't get words to work
Someone I'm actually trying to say is in history they were actually some really really big ships and when I say big ships I mean massive ships especially in when the Egyptians were in power and their golden age
I basically look like giant squares
If I remember their design correctly I may be forgetting design all
Try a PADDLE WHEEL BOAT. I bet it would be faster than engines if done right?
15:30 that song reminded me of Forza Horizon 2
need to angle oars 90` on forward stroke that should fix the braking.
i figured u would use the reptile skin paint job
oh maaaan I screwed up xD
@@darealkosmo nah, pocka dotted went well with the horns, and front facing googly eyes.
try lternating oars......every other......5 first then on front swing the other 5 go.....basically as u said
Use trailor hinges instead
Can u build the tesserakonteres?
Put bert in the vortex
So, leave him to die?
Is it just me or does the Vortex look like a Sarlac Pit
Kosmo, a pro artist / engineer
Easier version have 3 small hinges. 1st one is delayed by 1 and duration 1 and pause 1 and facing backwards. 2nd one is facing forwards duration 1 pause 1. 3rd hinge is facing down delay 0.70 duration 1 pause 1. You can change it to make it into a wave movement from front to back that’s realy complex but one reason it’s better than this is that it can be toggle and you only press 1 button. One disadvantage it adds a lot of complexity. If you add 8 oars its 80 complexity so I suggest only using bout 4-5 on each side basically 8-10 in total.
Edit: I think I might try this because it’s realy good… god dam you have a big brain Komso!
Where do u work dude
Add a sail
Waves aren't messing you up as much as the different settings on the 7th servo of the right side tho ^^' Check it's speed It looks different than the others and makes the oars collides. Also, you wer sooo close to getting the mechanical version working! Please give it another try :) it won't get messed up by the waves :D And finally : if you could find a way to delay every oars a little so you can always have 1 pushing *.* that'll probably be more efficient but it will most certainly look amazing :D
Anywho : great idea man :D I love the look of that dragon boat :D
Hey you need to build a nuclear submarine
Wouldn't zero strength suspension work for your rotary fixed design?
I actually tried that off camera and it didn't seem to do the trick...but maybe I didn't have it at zero strength.
How does this not have more likes?
nice build but a tiny detail is off.
viking ships didnt get equipped with figure heads before it had proven itself seaworthy. :)
To fix your problems with the rowing just make a ring thing a put the thing in
Never mind
hehe :)
5:31 if yo moved the seat 1 stud to the left it would have looked like it was your arm
Over sized of course
Bert, the bobtail dragon
Do you think Bert gets mistaken as the lockness monster in his free time?
xD allll the time! BIIIG loch ness guy
Silly question, but have you tried out a game called From The Depths before? If you like vehicle builders you ought to at least check out some youtube videos of players doing stuff in it/tournaments people hold between different ships, to see if it looks interesting. One feature of the game is that you can set AI blocks to handle vehicle behavior (the campaign goes with a sort of RTS style with the vessels you make so being able to let the ships you yourself aren't on behave on their own is useful). It also means people can do tournaments based on ship blueprints people send in to them if they want, which is why doing searches for the game will tend to bring up some tournament footage too.
Anyway, just saw your video in my recs, and this game does give me some FTD vibes, and a search of your channel didn't result in any videos from that game, so I thought I'd just comment about it.
Thank you for the comment! My friends and I have played a bit of From the Depths off camera, I might have to dive into it more :)
@@darealkosmo If you do, start with some workshop or viewer submissions content-wise since it does have a bit of a sharp learning curve (you can start anyway you want playing-wise, but for making videos it might be better to show off one faction's ships against another in the editor and then slapping a user ship in till you get a bit more used it).
Maybe then play around with trying to upgrade a lower level ship to be better, before making your own from scratch. Its definitely a game you learn better by trying to play around with and fix weaknesses of an existing ship. So you don't have to learn every system at once.
@@SephirothRyu Awesome, thank you for the tips!! :)
It popped out of the pipe oarlocks because the oar kept hitting the pier, silly. Should've tested it in the water.
haha oops. got caught up and didn’t notice that bit
Those few oars that just didn't want to synchronize lol
Someone's pointing out some of my values may have been off on the servos xD
I have a way simpler idea without rotators or balljoints or sensors and only has 2 oars
Wait someone can actually make an octopus or squid with the oars
oh man, called the cops twice.. what do you work as?
apparently I babysit grown men that act like children 😅
@@darealkosmo lol
Why not just do a rotating servo with a single hinge making the oars be at a 45 angle and rotate?
could. could. but it's already a single hinge/single rotating design so really we wouldn't be optimizing much
@@darealkosmo holy crap you're still looking at the comments!? Haha. I agree I just wanted to share and I think it would eliminate the drag from the oars staying in the water after paddling and possibly allowing for reverse?
Kosmo why don't you turn on mirror mode so whatever you build on one side it copies on the other
mirror mode messes up the values of the servos :(
@@darealkosmo ok I understand
You know the ship you're on in the other video yeah right off the front of the ship Is it dead center fall into the vortex