2016 MLB rules. Rule 5.09(a) (7) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 5.04(b)(5) (Rule 6.03), and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball;
Yeah, Right! And the kid already hit a home run in this game! Maybe they just wanted to change it up and practice laying down a bunt? Who knows. When you are coaching and you are up by 12, you start doing things you would never do, like having your power hitter try to lay down a bunt.
for anyone that watches or listens to MLB, all the hooplah of a completely random although mysteriously illusive event called 'the cycle' that it must have entered the kids brain. the commentary about this event if way over the top. I am really against this term. its a bs stat, its terrible commentating and reveals no strength or skill.
Who gives up 12 runs in three innings? Hey, 10 run rule in the forth, any team can score three in an inning, and the game continues. In a playoff game, no mercy till the fat lady sings!
If the batter is still in the batter's box when the ball makes contact with the bat (a second time) or his arm it is a foul ball by rule (both Little League and MLB rules are the same on this. Umpires in both cases blew the call. The Little League umpires used replay to make the right call.
In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
You're right. Both batters were still in the box. It's no different than fouling the ball off your foot on a full swing (unless there are two strikes).
No the actual explanation is that the batters hands and bat are over the plate which is fair territory. If you bat or bunt a ball and it touches any part of you or your bat that are in fair territory you are out. It's a foul ball when you foul a ball off your foot because your foot is in the batters box which is in foul territory. The little league call was incorrect.
the rule in question here has a major flaw basically this exact situation. the spirit of the rule is to keep players from knocking the ball in away from their opponents. as and example the batter hits a grounder that rolls along the baseline as he is running by it he kicks it to keep it out of the hands of the pitcher who is about to reach it. in the to cases in the video's the batter clearly was not trying to mess with the ball and it should be ruled a foul.
Before watching the whole video I want to say that the batter is out. A base runner came in contact with a ball put in play by the bat. Lets see if I have it correct...
Jeff Richards if a batted or bunted ball hits the player while he is still in the batters box it is ruled a foul ball. At least that's how they taught me at the umpire clinics let's se if my teachers were right.
In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
Here you have a case of a particular rule superseding a general one. And it's a good thing, because within the batter's box the foul line gets erased very quickly, so good luck trying to rule on fair or foul on a ball that hits almost straight down.
The MLB umpire screwed up. I've no idea how he decided to turn that into an out. This has been part of the rule for a long time... for example, here's the rule from the 2010 book: 6.05 A Batter is out when-- g. His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 6.03, and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball; The modern rule 5.09(a)(7) is exactly the same. The exception "If the batter is in a legal position..." was added to the official rulebook sometime in the last 15-20 years I believe, but even before that it was the official accepted interpretation in the umpire manuals. The official umpire manuals should generally be taken to have the same force as official rules.
well since the ball was technically in play at first and then hit the batter the rule states if a ball hits a player in fair territory than the batter is out
I believe the simple interpretation is in the verbiage of the rule. Rule says “any (runner) is out when touched by a fair batted ball, it does not say a (batter). The batter is still in the batters box. He is a batter not a runner, therefore he is not out and the ball is ruled a foul ball because it hit the player.
This is basic stuff. If the batter is in the batter's box and his batted ball bounces up and touches him (or his bat while he is holding it, FOUL BALL. We've got hundreds of instructional clips, MLB case studies, and lots more at basebalrulesacademy.com...
I think this one, by the way the rules are written, is an out. However because of how the game has been played over the last 100 years or so, it's more custom to call it a foul ball if the batter has both feet in the box. Not sure about that MLB ump calling the guy out, only thing I can figure is that he's saying he reached into fair territory to touch the ball? Personally I'd say foul ball to both but I'm not a major league umpire.
if it hits the batter when INSIDE the abatters box, its a foul ball... in the MLB video it was missed. he ruled that the batter was outside the batterbox
in the little league game, i dont see it "clearly" hitting the batter's hand ? but then the writing on this video is clearly in the way of that area, so i cant tell for sure. but from what i can tell, it looks more like the bat than the hand. i wish the op would have put his wording somewhere else, so we could actually see it !!
the most believable call is to kill it immediately, call foul ball. Its easy after you watch 5 replays in slow motion. NOBODY is going to question you if you simply kill it, call foul, play on
Actually, that is not a rule of thumb that an umpire should follow. In the little league clip, yes, it would have worked out, but an umpire should always error on the side of letting the play go on and finish out. You can always come back and say it was foul. On the other hand, If you kill the play when you shouldn't, it really can't be corrected. The umpire handled it correctly.
@@johnbleyer8490 I understand what youre saying, but Im saying that if ANY of the umpires believes they saw a foul ball in the box, they should kill it immediately. The worse thing to do is to do allow the play to finish, get together, and THEN call a foul ball. Argument from the other team is "if you saw a foul ball, why didnt you call it asap?" See the play, make the call, live with it
If he is in the batters box when it hits him he can keep on running but if he running and it hits his fleet or leg or anywhere when he is out of the batters box he should be out unless someone throws the ball and it hits him
I think the confusion in the way the rule is written happens to be if the ball strikes the batter in Fair territory. They're looking at the position of the ball. Where the rule should take the position of the batter. The batter has not entered the play until he leaves the batter's box. That's why the batter's box is there and that's why he's fully within his rights to be there. It is also exactly why I do not agree with calling a batter for interference if all he does is stand in the batter's box and the catcher can't seem to figure out how to throw to second base without claiming that somehow the batter was interfering with him because he didn't move out of his way. He's not required to move out of the batter's box and should never be required to move out of the batter's box. There may be some movement he can do in the batter's box which would interfere with the catcher's moves. But as long as he stands still he should not be called for interference.
I mostly agree. However I do think that there is something in the rule book that requires a batter to make some sort of reasonable effort to get out of the way of the catcher trying to make some sort of play. Imagine this situation - the pitch comes in low and in the dirt. The catcher has trouble catching it. The runner breaks from first and heads to second. The catcher believes the ball has gone past him to the back stop and turns and runs towards the backstop. However the ball is sitting on the ground near the batter. The catcher is searching and searching. The runner is now headed towards third. Clearly the batter has had sufficient time to get out of the way of the play. The catcher finally locates the ball and runs to pick it up right next to the batter's foot. He tries to pick up the ball and make a throw to third but the batter (who is still standing stock still and has not moved) is in the way. I would be inclined to call this interference. The batter had a reasonable time to get out of the way of the entire play but chose not to. I know this is an extreme case - but I am trying to make the point that it is a judgement call as to whether or not the batter had a reasonable amount of time to get out of the way of the play. (Or I could be completely wrong since I am just a guy sitting at a keyboard. LOL)
@@theburnetts even under the situation that you propose, I still believe he has every right to stay in the batter's box. Some rules go towards the runner, some rules go towards the player that's trying to stop the runner, this is one that goes for the batter. It's a box they specifically put on the ground for the batter to stand in and specifically for the better to stand in. The only time I can see him having to get out of the way is if the catcher or any other player to physically occupy that space such as a runner trying to steal home plate, because at that time you're actually talking about a plays that culminates with in the batter's box.
The hand is not a part of the bat so for example if there is a pitched ball and instead of hittin the bat it hits the hand of that batter I would have to give them first base but in this case scince it hit the bat first then the hand I would call foul
“5.09(a)7: (7) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 5.04(b)(5), and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball.” The key part here is the legal position in the batter’s box which means the feet. And any part of the foot on any part of the line puts him “in the box”. Therefore, in both cases, because the feet are still in the box, it’s a dead ball, foul ball. Doesn’t matter whether it hit the hands or the bat a second time in foul or fair territory.
In the box….I’m sayin foul ball. Both of em….however, in the little league game, the runner clearly ran inside the line and as a result should have been called for that infraction if the other wasn’t called.
NFHS Rule 8-4-1d2: The ball is declared FOUL if unintentionally contacted a 2nd time by the batter if he is still in the box. If intentionally contacted and fair or a foul ball which could have become fair then the batter-runner is out. In either case the ball is immediately dead. Regardless of the rule the best tactic is to call it FOUL and reset. Otherwise you will have an argument unless it is VERY obviously fair.
Being in the batter's box or not is inconsequential. The bat hit the ball. The ball then hit the hand after hitting the ground. The hand is an extension of the bat so its a foul ball. If the bat hit the ball a second time, the batter would be out.
Richard Schroth OK, Richard...First, I agree with you that the correct ruling is “Foul”. However, I must challenge the interpretation you provided to support your “call”. 1) you stated, “The hand is an extension of the bat...”. My challenge to you is to show us which rule says that the hand is an extension of the bat, or part of the bat, or any other such terminology / inference. 2) You further stated, “If the bat hit the ball a second time, the batter would be out.” Again, I would respectfully challenge you to document which rule(s) support this statement. Please, I look forward to you doing some research and either fully support your argument or relinquish it as unsupported by the rules.
As an umpire you have to be absolutely sure the batter/runner is out of the box when contact is made with the ball and there is no way in either case the umpire could see that. So just kill it!
I bunted, it hit the bat, bounced up and hit the bat again, all while I was in the box. I was called out and my coach argued, but even though it was a wrong called it was not brought back as a foul ball.
According to the actual rule that was the correct call. Some umpires incorrectly interpret and apply the rule and call a foul ball as long as your feet are in the batters box, but that's irrelevant to the rule. Your bat was over the plate which is in fair territory and if a struck ball hits any part of you or your bat in fair territory the correct call is out.
OIn the case the battery should have been called out it was a fair ball in contact with batter who was leaning towards fair territory the second umpire was completely correct in that play.
0:17 Could the first baseman have tagged out the runner here since he turned left instead of right or is there more complexity to the rule than simply that?
bwburke94 I remember playing little league and having it hammered into me that you always turn right if you run through first but don't intend to advance. It was probably just precautionary.
@@nexus1g , yep precautionary. That way you don't have to leave it up to the umpire's judgment as to whether or not attempt was made to advance to second.
If he is in the box it is a foul ball. If he is not, the ball is dead, and the batter is out for interference. All runners return. The LL guys got it right. The MLB guy got it wrong. On a batted ball that hits the batter it does not matter where the ball is, it matters where the batter is. As they say, you can look it up. I used to work a lot of ASA fastpitch and HS softball. A LOT of bunting happens in those games. As long as the bat is in possession of the batter it is called the same way. However, once the bat is released the batter is called out if the bat rolls INTO the ball, and no call is made if the ball rolls INTO the bat. Of course if this happens in foul ground, it's a foul ball.
If the batter is still in the batter’s box when contacting the ball again, after bunting it, its a foul ball. If the batter touches the ball while outside the box, the batter is out.
your hand is not part of the bat by ruling. Umpire training told me when i asked this exact question. When you buy a bat , does it come with some hands on it! lol. That part was obviously for fun and not meant as a rules interpretation , however no where in the rules book does it say the hands are considered part of the bat. This is actually listed on the top 10 common myths of baseball.
In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule. PS - If it hits his foot while his foot is outside the batter's box he's out.
Yes, I noticed where he was running. But, the running lane is inconsequential unless an accurate throw would get the batter/runner out. Since the throw was late, it would not be runner's Interference. Of course, when it was ruled a foul ball, the point was moot.
@@llumpvictoria7165 No, that is incorrect. The rule clearly states that the throw has to be a catchable ball. Remember the interference is to the fielder trying to catch the ball, not to the player throwing the ball. If the throw is wide or high, thus uncatchable, there can't be runner's interference as he did not interfere. On the play in question, the runner beat the throw and thus, there can be no interference, as the first baseman catching the ball would not have produced an out.
I think they BOTH got it wrong. The LL and MLB rule books are different on this point. Little League Rule 6.05 - A batter is out when - (f) - a fair ball touches said batter before touching a fielder; MLB makes an exception for when the batter is still in the box. MLB Rule 5.09 Making an Out (a) Retiring the Batter A batter is out when: (7) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 5.04(b)(5), and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no in- tention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball; So the LL player is out. If the MLB player was still in the batters box when it hit him, it’s a foul ball. If one foot was already out of the box, he’s out.
If the batter is still in the box, and the ball hits the player{hand}, DEAD ball, not foul ball. If the batter becomes a runner, thus leaving the batter's box, and the bunted ball strikes him, batter is out.
Indy Carr how could the batter become a runner on a ball that hits his in the box? the balls dead as soon as it contacts his hand and the batter is out or its ruled a foul ball. you may want to go educate yourself more on umpiring.
Because the ball hit the BAT first, then the ground and then the hand, it would be a foul ball (which is also a dead ball). I think you may be confused with a ball that hits the hand first. That would never be a foul ball. It's a dead ball and then either a HBP or a strike depending on if it was swung at or if the pitch was in the strike zone or not.
Jacob vandenberg, please read what i said. If the ball hits the batter when he is in the box its a foul ball. If it were to hit him when hes out of the box the batter would be out. I really have no idea what your saying anyways.
He is out its interference, it touched the batter. If the ball hits the bat it would be fair. If the bat hits the ball , say on release of the bat it is also interference ,batters out.
No it's not. In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
this fair vs foul stuff should not mke a difference... the front of the batters box is IN FAIR TERRITORY... so that means if I found a ball off my foot, I touched a fair ball and should be out... WRONG!!!!... MLB ump kicked this one badly.
They are both foul balls. It doesn't matter if the ball is in foul or fair territory if the batter still has both feet in the box when the ball hits him or his bat, according to 6.05g and h - you need to read both these rules in their entirety, not just the first five words - the both clearly state that if the batter is in the box, and if there is not intent, it's a foul ball. The umpire can rule the batter intentionally hit the ball a second time and rule him out. The only real viable explanation for the MLB mistake is the umpire believed the batter had left the box when it hit him.
Sorry that's incorrect. In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
I have always called foul if he's still in the box. Out if the batter has left the box.
I have too Joe
That’s what I thought
My question is why is this kid bunting with a 12 run lead😂
Your exactly right
I still hit a bomb though🤷🏽♂️😂
I call it unsportsmanlike conduct. And his coach needs to never be able to coach again. Ever. This is just not good for the gm.
Because you saw what happens when he swings away!
try watching more little league games! Next inning the other team could score 15 runs!
2016 MLB rules.
Rule 5.09(a)
(7) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 5.04(b)(5) (Rule 6.03), and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball;
who bunts up by 12 runs In the 3rd :/
Yeah, Right! And the kid already hit a home run in this game! Maybe they just wanted to change it up and practice laying down a bunt? Who knows. When you are coaching and you are up by 12, you start doing things you would never do, like having your power hitter try to lay down a bunt.
MJH-Baseball yeah true didn't think about it from that perspective
for anyone that watches or listens to MLB, all the hooplah of a completely random although mysteriously illusive event called 'the cycle' that it must have entered the kids brain. the commentary about this event if way over the top. I am really against this term. its a bs stat, its terrible commentating and reveals no strength or skill.
Who gives up 12 runs in three innings? Hey, 10 run rule in the forth, any team can score three in an inning, and the game continues. In a playoff game, no mercy till the fat lady sings!
AP Sneakers Especially when no one is on base 😅
If the batter is still in the batter's box when the ball makes contact with the bat (a second time) or his arm it is a foul ball by rule (both Little League and MLB rules are the same on this. Umpires in both cases blew the call. The Little League umpires used replay to make the right call.
In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
@@brady13001 So you went to Umpire school and used a whistle to blow the play dead? OK
@@mptr1783 it’s an expression genius. You kill the play. Meaning rule it foul and kill the play.
hes in the box when the ball hits his hand so its a foul ball
in the MLB game the player got out
The only explanation is the umpire thought the batter had left the box when the ball hit him.
You're right. Both batters were still in the box. It's no different than fouling the ball off your foot on a full swing (unless there are two strikes).
No the actual explanation is that the batters hands and bat are over the plate which is fair territory. If you bat or bunt a ball and it touches any part of you or your bat that are in fair territory you are out. It's a foul ball when you foul a ball off your foot because your foot is in the batters box which is in foul territory.
The little league call was incorrect.
Rowgue51 your dead wrong but keep trying
The batter had not left the box when the ball hit him and thus it is a foul ball.
Why not just tell us your answer and have us go to the descriptions??
the rule in question here has a major flaw basically this exact situation. the spirit of the rule is to keep players from knocking the ball in away from their opponents. as and example the batter hits a grounder that rolls along the baseline as he is running by it he kicks it to keep it out of the hands of the pitcher who is about to reach it.
in the to cases in the video's the batter clearly was not trying to mess with the ball and it should be ruled a foul.
NFHS sports role book If the batter is still in the batters box it is a foul ball. It does not matter if it hits him or the batt.
Before watching the whole video I want to say that the batter is out. A base runner came in contact with a ball put in play by the bat. Lets see if I have it correct...
Oops...I missed it, he was still in the batters box.
But after reading over the rules more...I still think he should be out.
Jeff Richards if a batted or bunted ball hits the player while he is still in the batters box it is ruled a foul ball. At least that's how they taught me at the umpire clinics let's se if my teachers were right.
Conno
In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
Here you have a case of a particular rule superseding a general one. And it's a good thing, because within the batter's box the foul line gets erased very quickly, so good luck trying to rule on fair or foul on a ball that hits almost straight down.
Batter in second film was in the box still, so it should have been called a foul ball bot out
The MLB umpire screwed up. I've no idea how he decided to turn that into an out. This has been part of the rule for a long time... for example, here's the rule from the 2010 book:
6.05 A Batter is out when--
g. His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position
in the batter’s box, see Rule 6.03, and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no
intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or
his bat shall be ruled a foul ball;
The modern rule 5.09(a)(7) is exactly the same.
The exception "If the batter is in a legal position..." was added to the official rulebook sometime in the last 15-20 years I believe, but even before that it was the official accepted interpretation in the umpire manuals. The official umpire manuals should generally be taken to have the same force as official rules.
well since the ball was technically in play at first and then hit the batter the rule states if a ball hits a player in fair territory than the batter is out
It should have been a touchdown, guys. Seriously, why is that so hard to see?
WHAT?! NO WAY. YA THINK?
Josh Carr
Guys calm down he’s being sarcastic, this is clearly basketball
Don't know how it can be a touchdown. The ball came out as he went to the ground. He did not maintain control, and there was no football move.
No. It should be a free shot-on-goal PLUS a technical foul.
Hey - You started it.😎
I believe the simple interpretation is in the verbiage of the rule. Rule says “any (runner) is out when touched by a fair batted ball, it does not say a (batter). The batter is still in the batters box. He is a batter not a runner, therefore he is not out and the ball is ruled a foul ball because it hit the player.
but once he hits the ball he is no longer a batter
This is basic stuff. If the batter is in the batter's box and his batted ball bounces up and touches him (or his bat while he is holding it, FOUL BALL. We've got hundreds of instructional clips, MLB case studies, and lots more at basebalrulesacademy.com...
I once got a hole in one in the 9th inning from the 50 yd line
Too funny.... but I have seen umpires try to make such a ruling!
I think this one, by the way the rules are written, is an out. However because of how the game has been played over the last 100 years or so, it's more custom to call it a foul ball if the batter has both feet in the box. Not sure about that MLB ump calling the guy out, only thing I can figure is that he's saying he reached into fair territory to touch the ball? Personally I'd say foul ball to both but I'm not a major league umpire.
little league ump is right even if it did hit his hand because he was still in the box
if it hits the batter when INSIDE the abatters box, its a foul ball... in the MLB video it was missed. he ruled that the batter was outside the batterbox
After reading the rule in the description I still don't know.
If hes in the box, its a foul ball. If he has vacated the box, hes out.
in the little league game, i dont see it "clearly" hitting the batter's hand ? but then the writing on this video is clearly in the way of that area, so i cant tell for sure.
but from what i can tell, it looks more like the bat than the hand. i wish the op would have put his wording somewhere else, so we could actually see it !!
Either way, it's a foul.
the most believable call is to kill it immediately, call foul ball. Its easy after you watch 5 replays in slow motion. NOBODY is going to question you if you simply kill it, call foul, play on
Actually, that is not a rule of thumb that an umpire should follow. In the little league clip, yes, it would have worked out, but an umpire should always error on the side of letting the play go on and finish out. You can always come back and say it was foul. On the other hand, If you kill the play when you shouldn't, it really can't be corrected. The umpire handled it correctly.
@@johnbleyer8490 I understand what youre saying, but Im saying that if ANY of the umpires believes they saw a foul ball in the box, they should kill it immediately. The worse thing to do is to do allow the play to finish, get together, and THEN call a foul ball. Argument from the other team is "if you saw a foul ball, why didnt you call it asap?" See the play, make the call, live with it
If he is in the batters box when it hits him he can keep on running but if he running and it hits his fleet or leg or anywhere when he is out of the batters box he should be out unless someone throws the ball and it hits him
I think the confusion in the way the rule is written happens to be if the ball strikes the batter in Fair territory. They're looking at the position of the ball. Where the rule should take the position of the batter. The batter has not entered the play until he leaves the batter's box. That's why the batter's box is there and that's why he's fully within his rights to be there. It is also exactly why I do not agree with calling a batter for interference if all he does is stand in the batter's box and the catcher can't seem to figure out how to throw to second base without claiming that somehow the batter was interfering with him because he didn't move out of his way. He's not required to move out of the batter's box and should never be required to move out of the batter's box. There may be some movement he can do in the batter's box which would interfere with the catcher's moves. But as long as he stands still he should not be called for interference.
I mostly agree. However I do think that there is something in the rule book that requires a batter to make some sort of reasonable effort to get out of the way of the catcher trying to make some sort of play. Imagine this situation - the pitch comes in low and in the dirt. The catcher has trouble catching it. The runner breaks from first and heads to second. The catcher believes the ball has gone past him to the back stop and turns and runs towards the backstop. However the ball is sitting on the ground near the batter. The catcher is searching and searching. The runner is now headed towards third. Clearly the batter has had sufficient time to get out of the way of the play. The catcher finally locates the ball and runs to pick it up right next to the batter's foot. He tries to pick up the ball and make a throw to third but the batter (who is still standing stock still and has not moved) is in the way. I would be inclined to call this interference. The batter had a reasonable time to get out of the way of the entire play but chose not to. I know this is an extreme case - but I am trying to make the point that it is a judgement call as to whether or not the batter had a reasonable amount of time to get out of the way of the play. (Or I could be completely wrong since I am just a guy sitting at a keyboard. LOL)
@@theburnetts even under the situation that you propose, I still believe he has every right to stay in the batter's box. Some rules go towards the runner, some rules go towards the player that's trying to stop the runner, this is one that goes for the batter. It's a box they specifically put on the ground for the batter to stand in and specifically for the better to stand in. The only time I can see him having to get out of the way is if the catcher or any other player to physically occupy that space such as a runner trying to steal home plate, because at that time you're actually talking about a plays that culminates with in the batter's box.
The hand is not a part of the bat so for example if there is a pitched ball and instead of hittin the bat it hits the hand of that batter I would have to give them first base but in this case scince it hit the bat first then the hand I would call foul
why does it matter its 12-0
“5.09(a)7: (7) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 5.04(b)(5), and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball.” The key part here is the legal position in the batter’s box which means the feet. And any part of the foot on any part of the line puts him “in the box”. Therefore, in both cases, because the feet are still in the box, it’s a dead ball, foul ball. Doesn’t matter whether it hit the hands or the bat a second time in foul or fair territory.
Extraction from the batter
if it hit his hand, it wouldn't be either. unless there's two strikes, but it's just a strike.
The better question is why this kid was ever bunting in the first place LOL
In the box….I’m sayin foul ball. Both of em….however, in the little league game, the runner clearly ran inside the line and as a result should have been called for that infraction if the other wasn’t called.
If a batted ball contacts the batter while he is in the batter’s box then the ball becomes dead and is ruled foul.
I didn't see well but if he was in the box it's a fall ball and if it hit him in the field it's an interference and he would be out
It's just like a foul tip when it hits you and bounces into play it should be ruled a foul ball
NFHS Rule 8-4-1d2: The ball is declared FOUL if unintentionally contacted a 2nd time by the batter if he is still in the box.
If intentionally contacted and fair or a foul ball which could have become fair then the batter-runner is out.
In either case the ball is immediately dead.
Regardless of the rule the best tactic is to call it FOUL and reset. Otherwise you will have an argument unless it is VERY obviously fair.
Who cares? Not an NFHS game.
Should it be a plunk?
2nd umpire is wrong he was in the batter’s box when it hit him so it’s a foul ball he would be out if he was out of the batter’s he would be out
Being in the batter's box or not is inconsequential. The bat hit the ball. The ball then hit the hand after hitting the ground. The hand is an extension of the bat so its a foul ball. If the bat hit the ball a second time, the batter would be out.
Richard Schroth OK, Richard...First, I agree with you that the correct ruling is “Foul”. However, I must challenge the interpretation you provided to support your “call”.
1) you stated, “The hand is an extension of the bat...”. My challenge to you is to show us which rule says that the hand is an extension of the bat, or part of the bat, or any other such terminology / inference.
2) You further stated, “If the bat hit the ball a second time, the batter would be out.” Again, I would respectfully challenge you to document which rule(s) support this statement.
Please, I look forward to you doing some research and either fully support your argument or relinquish it as unsupported by the rules.
in both, it hits the batter while he's still in the box....foul ball (unless it's the 3rd strike)
got the calm right in the end ..next pitch he goes yard-- go figure
As an umpire you have to be absolutely sure the batter/runner is out of the box when contact is made with the ball and there is no way in either case the umpire could see that. So just kill it!
It’s foul because he is still in the batters box when it hit his hand the second time
He's out the ball hit the bat twice
He’s still in the batters box; foul ball.
Not giving the answer " Right Here" blows
I bunted, it hit the bat, bounced up and hit the bat again, all while I was in the box. I was called out and my coach argued, but even though it was a wrong called it was not brought back as a foul ball.
According to the actual rule that was the correct call. Some umpires incorrectly interpret and apply the rule and call a foul ball as long as your feet are in the batters box, but that's irrelevant to the rule. Your bat was over the plate which is in fair territory and if a struck ball hits any part of you or your bat in fair territory the correct call is out.
Rowgue51
Your shitting all over yourself. Stop, it's embarrassing
Tom Schmaltz im not sure but i think it is out i have to go an look back at the nfhs rule book because little league go by high school rules here
ryan kostick - Little League publishes their own rules. If they are using NFHS rules, it might be little kids, but it ain't Little League.
OIn the case the battery should have been called out it was a fair ball in contact with batter who was leaning towards fair territory the second umpire was completely correct in that play.
If the batter is in the box and gets hit with the ball it is a foul ball. If he is out of the box it is an out
0:17 Could the first baseman have tagged out the runner here since he turned left instead of right or is there more complexity to the rule than simply that?
Has to make an attempt to advance to 2B. Turning left is not an attempt to advance.
bwburke94 I remember playing little league and having it hammered into me that you always turn right if you run through first but don't intend to advance. It was probably just precautionary.
@@nexus1g , yep precautionary. That way you don't have to leave it up to the umpire's judgment as to whether or not attempt was made to advance to second.
The 1st one should be out it hit his hand before any of the players
I believe the foul one is correct
I would say he is out anyway becaus he run inside the line
If he is in the box it is a foul ball. If he is not, the ball is dead, and the batter is out for interference. All runners return. The LL guys got it right. The MLB guy got it wrong. On a batted ball that hits the batter it does not matter where the ball is, it matters where the batter is. As they say, you can look it up.
I used to work a lot of ASA fastpitch and HS softball. A LOT of bunting happens in those games. As long as the bat is in possession of the batter it is called the same way. However, once the bat is released the batter is called out if the bat rolls INTO the ball, and no call is made if the ball rolls INTO the bat. Of course if this happens in foul ground, it's a foul ball.
If the batter is still in the batter’s box when contacting the ball again, after bunting it, its a foul ball. If the batter touches the ball while outside the box, the batter is out.
If the ball was in play when the bunt was made, then he's out cause he's out.
Ur hand would count as the bat if its in ur hand still
your hand is not part of the bat by ruling. Umpire training told me when i asked this exact question. When you buy a bat , does it come with some hands on it! lol. That part was obviously for fun and not meant as a rules interpretation , however no where in the rules book does it say the hands are considered part of the bat. This is actually listed on the top 10 common myths of baseball.
he is still in the box, foul ball
if the bat makes contact with the ball and the ball hits the batter is out
wrong.
Wrong... batters hit balls off their foot all the time and it is always a foul.
In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
PS - If it hits his foot while his foot is outside the batter's box he's out.
In both instances, the batters are still in the batters box. In my opinion, it is a foul ball.
Different rules in little league Right? position of the ball not batter....
if it hits the bat twice, he is out.
he sould be out he ran out of the base line
Foul ball in both instances but did no one notice the batter runner interference in clip 1? He was not in the running lane.
Yes, I noticed where he was running. But, the running lane is inconsequential unless an accurate throw would get the batter/runner out. Since the throw was late, it would not be runner's Interference. Of course, when it was ruled a foul ball, the point was moot.
@@johnbleyer8490 The rle does not state that the throw must be accurate, the runner must be in the lane.
@@llumpvictoria7165 No, that is incorrect. The rule clearly states that the throw has to be a catchable ball. Remember the interference is to the fielder trying to catch the ball, not to the player throwing the ball. If the throw is wide or high, thus uncatchable, there can't be runner's interference as he did not interfere.
On the play in question, the runner beat the throw and thus, there can be no interference, as the first baseman catching the ball would not have produced an out.
I think they BOTH got it wrong. The LL and MLB rule books are different on this point.
Little League Rule 6.05 - A batter is out when -
(f) - a fair ball touches said batter before touching a fielder;
MLB makes an exception for when the batter is still in the box.
MLB Rule 5.09 Making an Out
(a) Retiring the Batter
A batter is out when:
(7) His fair ball touches him before touching a fielder. If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 5.04(b)(5), and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no in- tention to interfere with the course of the ball, a batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball;
So the LL player is out. If the MLB player was still in the batters box when it hit him, it’s a foul ball. If one foot was already out of the box, he’s out.
Check the video description for a more detailed understanding of how this situation is handled.
I would have called him out.
I don't see the count in the MLB clip. If there are two strikes, you could be out on a foul bunt being called as a third strike?
Good question. I don't know the count either, but it seemed the umpire was not calling a strike out.
He is out because the ball is in fair territory and touches him so he is out
If he is still in the batters box it's a dead ball. If he is out of the box the batter is out for interference
Who bunts with a 12 run lead in the 3rd inning?
A team that is trying to give away outs on purpose? Maybe?
out, atleast thats what my umps call against me
If the batter is still in the box, and the ball hits the player{hand}, DEAD ball, not foul ball. If the batter becomes a runner, thus leaving the batter's box, and the bunted ball strikes him, batter is out.
Indy Carr how could the batter become a runner on a ball that hits his in the box? the balls dead as soon as it contacts his hand and the batter is out or its ruled a foul ball. you may want to go educate yourself more on umpiring.
Because the ball hit the BAT first, then the ground and then the hand, it would be a foul ball (which is also a dead ball). I think you may be confused with a ball that hits the hand first. That would never be a foul ball. It's a dead ball and then either a HBP or a strike depending on if it was swung at or if the pitch was in the strike zone or not.
Jacob vandenberg, please read what i said. If the ball hits the batter when he is in the box its a foul ball. If it were to hit him when hes out of the box the batter would be out. I really have no idea what your saying anyways.
I would have called a foul ball there.
Foul ball add a strike. If he had 2 strikes it would be an out. 6.05E
If the batter is in the batters box then its foul if not its an out
Foul in both scenarios!
Hits the bat twice or the ball is hit into himself,its foul,In the scenario with 2 strikes,the batter would be out if the ball hit the bat twice
He is out cause he was out of the batter box when it it hit him
He is out its interference, it touched the batter. If the ball hits the bat it would be fair. If the bat hits the ball , say on release of the bat it is also interference ,batters out.
It’s literally the umpires only job is to know the rules. How do you not know the rules. Pathetic
it's foul because it's like when you swing the ball goes straight down bounces and hits your leg the ball is foul
FOUL
No it's not. In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
Doesn't matter what the call is there up 12
who the heck bunts when his team is up 12 runs and clearly has enough power to hit dingers
Bush league call from the coach, I would be giving him sound advice after the game in a gentleman like fashion
@@somekindaguy100 because you know the coach gave him the bunt sign, right?
@@mptr1783 well mate the kids learn from the coaches and I am not approaching a kid I don't know and yeah I do think the coach gave the bunt sign
@@somekindaguy100 so again, you KNOW the coach gave him the bunt sign lol. You may THINK it , but you don't KNOW it. Big difference
Dead ball strike. Same as swinging at a pitch that he doesn't make contact with but hits the batter.
It’s foul if he was in the box when it hit
MLB - it is a foul ball. MLB umpire got it wrong.
this fair vs foul stuff should not mke a difference... the front of the batters box is IN FAIR TERRITORY... so that means if I found a ball off my foot, I touched a fair ball and should be out... WRONG!!!!... MLB ump kicked this one badly.
They are both foul balls. It doesn't matter if the ball is in foul or fair territory if the batter still has both feet in the box when the ball hits him or his bat, according to 6.05g and h - you need to read both these rules in their entirety, not just the first five words - the both clearly state that if the batter is in the box, and if there is not intent, it's a foul ball. The umpire can rule the batter intentionally hit the ball a second time and rule him out. The only real viable explanation for the MLB mistake is the umpire believed the batter had left the box when it hit him.
The 2016 edition of the Official Baseball Rules this would be Rule 5.09(a)(7) (8).
Sorry that's incorrect. In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.
I knew most of that North Carolina team
Batter in box foul ball. Out of box batter is out.
Batter still in the box when hit by the batted/bunted ball is a FOUL BALL!! LLWS got it right. MLB ump was wrong.
second times result can be out
He’s a kid and it’s not major league
Depends if the ball was fair when it hit the batter if fair he's out foul foul ball
Or maybe a penalty. Who's with me on that?
Foul ball he's in the box
It was a foul ball but he should have been called out for being out of the baseline when running... idk if little league has that rule though
Kailyn Merkel its only out of the baseline if he goes out to avoid a tag
OCEmerson oh okay. I wasnt sure but thanks for telling me
In this case where the players body part is when it comes in contact with the ball is the determining factor. In the LL Clip the batters hands were not judged to be in fair territory when it came back up and hit him. In the ATL/MIA game Minor's hands are directly above HP not the batters box which is in fair territory. Therefor as soon as he's hit with the ball coming back up the play is blown dead, the batter is called out and no runners can advance. As someone who went to Jim Evan's School and did some minor league ball after I can tell you without question that's the rule.