Umm..... From what I see from Genshin. Your not swinging your arm to throw a ball. It don't even look like a ball after fire out. It more of a energy particle fire out of your hand instead. It don't even shake after capture. You can't even ride capute animal at all. Well this not going work for nintendo sue genshin at all. It have to be really precise and identical on copying some one ideal. I would go with Craftpoia instead for better example on this instead.
@@rajabuta Thank god they didn't now any game can use the concept. Patenting game mechanics is so evil no popular game aaround today invented any of its concepts, the closet you you can come is halo inventing using the second joystick to aim and the first to move thank the lord they didnt patent that with how halo has fallen off imagine what microsoft would do with that.
correction: the pokeball patent from 2024 is a refiled, divided, smaller part of a bigger patent from 2021 BUT Poketpair also have a game from 2020 which also used a throwable capture device
Also if im not mistaken, the 2021 patent was after the Palworld reveal trailer. So to me it seems that when they saw the trailer for the game they decided to put all these patents just to kill every competitor because they HATE making and improving a Pokémon game. This infuriates me
@dergrive88 yeah but when craftopia came out in 2020 it has everything from throwing an object to capture something, riding a creature and much more. They have everything way before pokemon did their own patent. On top of that craftopia and palworld are own by pocketpair which gives Nintendo a big L for this
@dergrive88 they did other petty lawsuit that doesn't involve gaming companies the worst petty lawsuit they did when a group of people was doing charity by selling custom made Nintendo controllers made to help sell them to use the money for charity to help the children hospital and cancer program but Nintendo saw this got mad and sue them and won the lawsuit so that all that charity money goes to Nintendo instead of the children which is F-up, greedy and selfish of them. I want them to lose this lawsuit against pocketpair because they need to get stopped
You mentioned that it's a relatively low amount that they are charging Pocketpair for, and I suspect the reason is that they don't want Pocketpair to actually take this to court, but rather just settle up. I suspect that if they can get Pocketpair to just settle up then it effectively acts as Pocketpair admitting that Nintendo is right and it would set a precedent and legitimize the patents. But if Pocketpair can take it to court they have a fairly good standing in saying that Nintendo is wrong and effectively nullify those patents, and thus the floodgates would be open for people to make similar style games.
The characters of Pokomon have long been public domain. However, looking at the Japanese Patent Pictures, it is tied to a game console. I think the question is where did the license fees go to and Nintendo and Pokomon did not get their cut...Did they fire/layoff people during COVID quarantine? A lot of egos at play. If I were the judge I would ask whether Nintendo and Pokomon corporation can used their existing young people and infrastructure to develop a basic game in 72 hours with sound. PS. Looks like the standard patent trolls at work...people who don't contribute to overall development of the game...they have other patent in other industries... The show stopper is whether AI was used... An AI judge/assistant would be needed???
@@rgloria40 Japan has strict employment law. They did not terminate people during COVID not because they are good. But because they can't. But of course they use said misinformation happily and willingly to build their image.
The concept of a human throwing a ball at a creature to capture it in an open world environment was actually in Pocketpair's relatively unknown previous title Craftopia 1.5 years before Legends: Arceus released. So in reality, Pocketpair had standing to sue the other way around. But they're not petty like that and they know that's not the point of a patent.
@AkaiAzul At this point, I doubt it. Nintendo has the patent. But theoretically, they could have done to Nintendo what Nintendo has now done to them. But it's dirty.
@@AkaiAzul They technically could but Nintendo has WAY more time and money on their hands. The legal fees for lawyers and time in court would sky rocket over time.
@@psoslash Of course they are afraid. Sony signed a deal with them, and while Pocket Pair does not have the funds to make an entire franchise, Sony does. Sony is taking the opportunity to take a bite out of Nintendo. I mean, Sony is not doing well on console sales, and their IPs are barely recognizable since they never nurtured. Wonder why PocketPair is nowhere close to Sony's game division? Fun is we get to see something that rarely happens: Two big companies duking it out in the legal battlefield over the Pokemon trademark.
I would argue that it’s not even competition since the two games don’t exist on the same system. I don’t see any world where palworld can actually take some of Pokémon’s sales away from Pokémon because owning palworld doesn’t deincentivize someone from also buying Pokémon
@kyallon1213 Except Palworld looks a lot like Pokemon, so the damage is more on the trademark than the sales. When your average mother is unable to tell the difference, and she sees a monkey with a machine gun, she won't buy pokemon thinking they are the same franchise.
@ the average mother isn’t picking out video games for her kid, the kid picks out the video games that they want. If a kid wants Pokémon, then their mother would never even see Palworld because that games are on separate systems.
@kyallon1213 ?? So, the mother does not go around the store to check the game the kid picked is safe? Or she is isolated from any kind of news or mentions or depictions of palworld? Talk about unlikely.
That lawsuit is so malicious and greedy. All because Nintendo is upset that someone made a more interesting, different version of something they haven't changed in decades.
@@ScarftailThe last two games… the one that ran at 15 fps, and the pair where they were so glitchy that they had an equal comparison to launch Cyberpunk.
@@makotoyuki9498 I think they meant PLA. SWSH did nothing innovative for the franchise. It took ideas from earlier projects and dumbed them down. PLA wasn't open world, it was a linear progression game. Also finding wild pokemon outside of traditional battle methods isn't new, Pokemon Snap for the N64 exists. SV did do something new for the franchise, made a game so bad that even the DLC couldn't fix it.
@@megaman37456 The first one I was referencing was PLA, it ran horribly, but was a new take for the Pokémon series. The second one, as you guessed was SV, which had so much potential but failed at making a halfway decent game, and the one where hurried it next to the worse running DLC.
@@derick5295 True, but Sony is kinda hurting for a good franchise under their wing. They have the capitol and studios to super charge Pocket Pair to turn Palworld into something bigger. It's very telling that Nintendo isn't going after Pocket Pair financially. You can tell they're after an injunction and setting the precedent.
Dude. you failed to see that those 3 patents are filed AFTER palworld's release. And the Killer parent patent those 3 patents are updates to is filed by 2021 but the game mechanic was invented by Pocketpair for Craftopia released in 2020. the riding mechanic was also used by Pocketpair in craftopia
Many patents have been filed after things have been release. It’s because of the copying that one files patents for. The patent office then investigates who did what first, then decides if the patents get approved.
You can retroactively sue people if you get the patent first. I guess nobody thought anyone would try to be so greedy to patent MOUNTING. Is world of warcraft next? World of final fantasy? That game has riding.
Nintendo originally patented those ideas much earlier actually. The dates are just the result of approval system. The original date of effect is written on the patent paper if you read carefully. I know it’s confusing, but I’m sure that devs of palworld mentioned the later dates in their statement in purpose to get people confused as you are. I was too. Also the idea is not just mounting or throwing balls at monsters. They are much more complex combinations of motions, calculations and effects. Nintendo is just knowing their rights.
It's crazy to think that Temtem Came before Palworld, and Nintendo was OK with it being on the Switch. Not to mention, they're STILL safe from this patent because while you can still MOUNT yourself on your Tems, you can only throw Temcards in battle. And I think that's hilarious. Thanks for this. I needed this while I'm here being sick.
Not just other monster games... They are not going after any of the dozen of mobile games... even Dragon Quest's latest game was a monster collector/battler. But if it is such a broad patent that patent essentially means they haven't been defending it for over 30 years. They didn't sue World of Warcraft - Activision Blizzard Entertainment one of the largest games in the world when they added pet capturing involving throwing objects at weakened pets, pet battling and mounts in an Open World environment for over 15 years.
This is not Nintendo suing Pocket Pair, but basically Sony.. which acquired the game as a potential and ACTUAL rival! The game you mentioned didn't sell as much, and had NOT received backing from a bigger company, nor has been able to advertise or create as much merchandise to sway the market. Sony made the first move, so this is a response.
@ZeroTaichi which makes the argument in 30 years they never defended their patent, or gave permission to others to use said patent, which means through inaction they forfeit their right to it.
@@boxhead6177 The patents in this case are fairly new, only made in the last few years. They had nothing to "defend" in that regard the rest of the time.
Sony needs to back up Pocket Pair in this scenario. I really don't understand why Nintendo is doing this now, there are dozens of monster catching games on the Switch like Monster Hunter Stories and Dragon Quest Monster already,
@@mittensfastpawFunny thing is that Monster Hunter also sells merchandise of their games too (yes, including Stories) Since Capcom is also a Japanese company, I wonder how this will affect them and if they’ll do anything. 🤔
Monster Hunter Stories and Dragon Quest was sold on nintendo console so Nintendo themselves able to get some profits from it . Palworld however is not , and Sony partner with PP for future merchandise was what trigger the ever paranoid Nintendo .
simple nintendo are sore losers that cant make a new game no matter what they do all pokemon games are the same ignoring he new evolution way and new pokemons so they want to bully them because for them thats like they are better than us lets use laws to suck them dry
@grimlocked472 Many of the big-name developers and corporations are on good terms with each other over in Japan. Sony and Nintendo however have a bitter history going back to Nintendo backing out of that Playstation deal. The moment PocketPair signed up with Sony the fight was on.
What's wild to me is that most here in Japan have the opposite opinion on the situation in that they believe Pocket Pair is stealing, but most seem to be convinced the lawsuit is over copyright, when it's not.
@@knightofcarrion7358 suing them for what basically amounts to 65k from a game that has profited more than 400 millions? That sure shows how confident they are in this case huh xD Yeah no. Nintendo is basically acting like a patent troll because they got no grounds on copyright infringement. People seem to forget that palworld is a japanese game. They've had their bases covered. It's not like palworld is a chinese game where copyright laws are looser. A good court would shame Nintendo for this.
As far as i can see it , this is mainly Nintendo retaliating against Sony. Nintendo could have filed the lawsuit any time in the last half a year , but they only did after Sony and Pocketpair announced their Partnership. So i think this is a Pokemon Company vs Palworld Company thing , and Patent rights are a pain to deal with , if Nintendo could have protected their TradeMark and ideas / concepts by filing a Copy Right Lawsuit they would have done so. Cuz nobody wants to deal with Patent Rights. That said i bet this Lawsuit was only made to setup a clear line that the other company is not allowed to cross. If this actually has a major impact on the already existing Palworld , which had its Public outing before the Patents got secured by Nintendo , is yet to be seen. Because as far as im aware , you cant retroactively do that in court . But yeah it absolutely means that as long as Nintendo holds the Patents , there cant be a Palworld 2 or whatever in the future with the same patented mechanics.
You’re got the point, the real reason for this lawsuit! Nintendo is clearly acting to defend itself from the impending partnership between Sony and Palword, because it knows full well that it absolutely cannot tolerate the existence of “Pokémon for PlayStation”. They probably already heard something earlier this year, when they said they would “investigate”, but when their worst nightmare came true they had to act and reveal their trump cards. Of course, it is also convenient for PocketPair to play the victim, the “small indie company” that is attacked by the “evil multinational”, and for this reason they were the ones who revealed the killer patents and the fine against them, but maybe it's just my imagination… The idea that Nintendo can now destroy the global video game market by filing lawsuits left and right is completely absurd. In reality, Nintendo only acts if threatened by a real competitor (or an aspiring one) or if its intellectual property is used improperly, and Palword falls perfectly into this category. The novice developer or the TRUE "small indie company" have nothing to fear... until they decide to DELIBERATELY make a shameless copy of one of their games!
@@JuniorD99WD True Its funny how most people from the west side with Pocketpair and people from the east side with Nintendo. Because they dont see the full picture. Nintendo didnt lash out against other MonCollector games either , and that has nothing to do with the amount of money those others make. The others simply didnt partner up with a Behemoth like Sony. Thats all there is to it.
@@JuniorD99WD The problem is that it sets a precedent for other games companies to patent games mechanics “just in case”. If *all* of the companies start doing this for fear of some other new company being more successful, big backer or not, then we’re looking at the death of innovation in gaming. Because from that point, all that matters is who has more money to win the suit
Nintendo didn't try to sue before because this is risky, if they lost, the patenta might be harmed, but with Sony trying to make their own "pokemon company" with the pal world brand, they are getting nervous and trying to at least stall. Or stop, or even just drag the company names through the mud to save face.
@@Big_Dai in the video they said Nintendo just asked for and got a patent for this though, but more so for mounts not specifically horse back riding. So many games have mounts tho its crazy nintendo is doing this.
@Big_Dai So a dev just needs to hope their game doesn’t become too successful for Big Nintendo to notice? That’s f***ing evil and it’ll ruin the industry.
This already happend its the 80s to 2010 some have expired some you dont even know that exist Like the infamous namco patenting minigames on loading screens
When I see companies sue other companies over a patent that they cant do the same idea feels petty to me. I prefer if both companies came togather and innovate and share ideas. I prefer when companies get along and share experiences That's my unpopular opinion.
If Nintendo wins this - they'll be groundpounded by hundreds of other companies for patents and copyrights THEY infringed, but not been held accountable yet.
if you get the patent in Japan then you could try but the court would most likely side with Nintendo regardless of you having the patent because Nintendo is an old and big companie which in Japans culture makes Nintendo a prestigious company that sould always be favored over newer and smaller companies.
Is taking advantage of legal means petty? Why do such systems exist in the first place? If Nintendo has not made these patents first, some idiot would have come for them first! This is Nintendo protecting their golden-cow as well as attacking Sony's advanced of acquiring a game/company that can rival their empire.
Is taking advantage of legal means petty? Why do such systems exist in the first place? If Nintendo has not made these patents first, some idiot would have come for them first! This is Nintendo protecting their golden-cow as well as attacking Sony's advanced of acquiring a game/company that can rival their empire.
@@Big_Dai Sony didn't acquire PocketPair, my god how many people actually are dumb enough to believe this? Sony Music *partnered with* not *acquired* Pocketpair to make Physical Merch like a trading card game, plushies, and even an anime.
Nintendo is not the only company with an open-world monster catching game. Take these games as prime examples: Dragon Quest (Bandai), Digimon (Bandai), Yokai Watch, and Monster Hunter (Capcom)
I think dragon quest is "square enix" but yeah the point still tue same, the worst case scenario they can even sue any game with same mechanic. And the worse case this can apply to other game to. Like monster hunter with there "capture net", Final fantasy summoning mechanic, or any game with capture item, ride can tranform freely and any patent nintendo have.
Nintendo needs to be forcibly reminded that the creature collector rpg subgenre is a SUBGENRE. They do not own the concept. They don't even do the concept WELL anymore!
Then if thats the case then sue ark, dragon’s quest, shimigami tensei, digimon since they wanna patent gameplay. D&D should sue them for using “EXP” leveling system since it was the first game to have a system like this.
If PocketPair has to remove the mounting system from Palword, then Studio Wildcart may have to remove a similar mounting system from Ark, just because in that game too you also can mount, ride, demount and smoothly switch between these modes and even without loading screens. I hope that many game companies and studios would sue Nintendo against Nintendo's mounting system patent that claims Nintendo a monopoly on riding in video games. And the UN Human Rights Court should sue Nintendo for patenting sleeping. Nintendo hasn't invented that people can practice good sleeping habits to promote their own well-being and health, and Pokemon Sleep and Alarmo aren't sufficient justifications for a patent that patents something vital and mandatory for people like sleeping.
The biggest threat here isn't the money, it's the injunction. Pocket Pair had huge plans for multiple properties of the Palworld brand, not just the game, but also an Anime series, which is why they are teaming up with Sony. Basically Palworld is starting to do what Pokemon did to get so big, and THAT's why this lawsuit happened. People use Nintendo's patents all the time in their games without asking first, and Nintendo usually doesn't care because those games never infringe upon the IP of Nintendo's properties, and they never get too big to be a threat to the company on their own. But Palworld is different. This is a game who's creatures and capture mechanics are designed to poke at the bit of your brain that knows the Pokemon brand, but without being direct copyright ripoffs. Palworld is meant to be a Pokemon game that does it better than actual Pokemon, and you know what? It succeeded. Japan doesn't see it that way though. They don't have a problem with IP monopoly because in Japanese culture, you're supposed to show respect to the biggest, richest company/entity on the block. Any sign of disrespect is to be met with swift retribution. Japanese courts know that Nintendo is a lot bigger than Pocket Pair, and so even if Pocket Pair would win this case legally, they will lose in practice, because the courts will just side with Nintendo out of respect for the bigger entity.
I hope Nintendo loses! That makes me mad they would do that. Technically there are rules that apply that they shouldn't have even been allowed to follow a patent for these normal gameplay mechanics.
The way to not get sued by Nintendo and its associated companies is to have your base of operations housed in the United States and by doing so you would be under the United States copyright law instead of the shity Japanese copyright system which seems to allow a lot of shenanigans and bs loopholes.
Moon had a really good breakdown of the lawsuit and all the context behind it. His video basically boils it down to the old back-and-forth rivalry with Sony. Even though I'm a big pokemon fan and don’t care for palworld at all, I hope Nintendo loses this lawsuit. Game mechanics shouldn’t be patented to begin with, and I hope the competition forces them to actually make good pokemon games again. As much as I love the series, SV was an absolute trainwreck and I'm crossing all my fingers that the extra time they’re spending on Legends Z means we'll get something more polished.
This is law used in a most evil way. This patent should have never been allowed. This is worse than WB and the nemesis engine. What’s next? Capcom patents 2-d fighters, Namco 3-d fighters, Microsoft flight simulation?
Step1: Patent catching animals or objects in an open world with the "Magic Pal Lasso" Step2 : Change the Pal Sphere Mechanic to a Lasso fishing mini game style mechanic. Call it the FU rope. Step 3: Tell Nintendo to get stuffed. Also riding an animal/creature in an open world environment??? Red Dead, MGS5, You have so much "Prior Art" defence against that patent that it should be dismissed with prejudice.
@@captainjoltz4929 Skyrim. The horses there can and will fight. Sometimes they run, but sometimes they will straight up fight, and even have damage values for doing so.
So, they filed patents on two (or more) ideas that were in use long before they filed the patents by several other game companies. I kind of feel like the end result is that the patents should be assigned to the actual first users of each mechanic and Nintendo should have to 1) remove all of its infringing games and 2) pay horrendous damages to the new patent holders of their wrongfully filed patents. Next, the patents should then be invalidated because these mechanics were already "in the wild", in use by multiple entities, and therefore should be considered in the public domain at this point. But I really want to see Nintendo eat a giant crap sandwich over this.
One interesting perspective on the matter that's been brought up recently is that it's highly likely this isn't really about palworld itself, but about sony; about how sony's partnership with pocketpair has worrying parallels with nintendo's initial partnership with gamefreak and how they may fear sony would take charge of marketing for the palworld IP and basically weaponize it by being intentionally confusing, either to leech of pokemon's existing popularity, or to damage it. Which tbf, is absolutely something sony would do. And honestly, the fact that they didn't sue at all until the sony partnership was unveiled and yet, took until now to present an actual case, lends weight to this theory. If this ends up being true, chances are they'd have left palworld well alone if not for that partnership, so, unfortunate victim here. Because while the method used to go after it is indeed as scummy as it gets, if it's to prevent greater damage from sony itself... I get it. I hate it, but I get it.
Sony just saw a chance to potentially make their own "pokemon company" and we'll, Nintendo is not going to let that happen without a fight of some sort, yeah.
While we can agree Palworld doesn't have an original bone in its body, the game is still a wonderful Frankenstein of MANY excellent ideas that were mostly being squandered elsewhere. If nothing else, I hopes this forces Pokemon Company to actually CARE about the Pokemon games, if even a little...
Nintendo and specifically the pokemom company has been really paintint itself in a bad light with the way they handle things, paired with how poor the new games are.. maybe its time to let the giant rest
There's another channel called "Moon Channel" and the guy who runs it is a lawyer. His recent video goes into a lot more detail but it can be partially summed up as follows: Remember how Sony first got started with the PlayStation? It was originally going to be a Nintendo console before the two companies parted ways. But Sony was gearing up to OWN Nintendo, and Nintendo backed out of the merger. Follow the money and you'll find Palworld was partially funded by companies owned by Sony. Let that sink in. Sony and Nintendo are both Japanese companies. Judging them through a Western lens is always going to paint Nintendo as the bad guy. Looking at this lawsuit through an eastern lens, that's when the historical context between these two companies starts to shine light on the current situation.
So as a small company, you can't become popular? you can't ally with big companies or receive investments from others ? It's BS, what this Moon Channel guy concluded in part of his video is basically the way how a company growing its business, it's so univeral and vague, and most importantly, the same process, the same philosophy can be applied to Game freak and even Nintendo itself.
@VideoGameStoryTime Basically what the lawuit is boiling down to (like boiling eggs for potato salad), is Nintendo & TPC are suing PocketPair for having BASIC GAME MECHANICS that every other game has as well that has been using the SAME EXACT MECHANICS way before Pokemon and Palworld started using it, so in turn by what it looks like already is a invalid and voidable lawsuit that should straight up get shrugged off and pushed to the side, and the patents Nintendo filed over them being invalid and revoked.
Probably more to the story with a lot of implication to society in general. I would ask both parties develop a basic game with should in 72 hours with their "new" young hires...according to judge direction and choice... The real question should it be a AI judge or the judge given an AI assistant?
The lawsuit is not trying to kill Palworld via money, hence the low money ask, but via the "Palworld must cease" clause, as SONY just made a joint enterprise with PocketPair.
Waiting for an open-world monster catching game in which you throw DND Dices as fruits and tame the monster with a nat20. That way you don‘t catch it and it isn’t a ball. To the patent of riding a monster. Let the monster just grab you and physically carry you to another place. That way you don’t ride it, you just get carried away to somewhere else by a monster.
Hope Pocketpair wins, because Monopolizing particular things as big as gaming is Illegal. They would be committing a literal crime. I'm not a Sony Pony at all and don't trust Sony, but if they can get Nintendo to shut up and let creativity soar if they are too lazy to do it themselves, then let them speak up.
Filing a lawsuit, for copyright infringement, on a patent that was filed AFTER the supposed infringement took place, 100% makes this a frivilous lawsuit, and Pocket Pair should countersue Nintendo.
Does Nintendo even have legal standing here? Putting aside the stupidity of patenting game mechanics, shouldn't the patent be invalid if something of that description already existed?
Wel... Spoon, fork, knife and scissors are one of the most patented things and the product improves very little between different models. But I still don't think it's right to patent something that already exists or to patent the same thing several times. We would need a better global patent system that would be more precise also and stricter on patent filings.
@@danielmalinen6337 Yeah, someone actually managed to patent the wheel. THE WHEEL. Let that sink in. The patent system is a joke, you can patent anything if you word it correctly.
I'm Japanese. Thank you for posting the video. It's very hard to defend Palworld in Japan, and so many people blindly support Nintendo. Palworld is quite hated due to the similarity of character designs and the CEO's immature remarks, and many people even consider the existence of the game to be evil. There is a trend of hating Palworld so much that a patent lawsuit is the only way to punish the game. Many Japanese people believe that Nintendo will only destroy rude companies and will forgive well-behaved companies. In other words, they seem to think that this lawsuit will not affect the game industry. I don't think people around the world will believe this. Even as a Japanese person, I feel uneasy. Nintendo may be planning to continue doing business without any explanation after defeating Palworld. Nintendo is responsible for obtaining patents and using them in court. I would like them to explain the reason for this behavior.
Yeah...this will never float. Especially if someone mentions the phrase "patent trolling" to Nintendo and mentions all the countries that have made that illegal.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a big part of the lawsuit is that Nintendo HAS been working on some big open-world Pokemon game, and seeing Palworld so successfully beat them to the punch has left them a tad peeved.
This isn’t between pocket pair and Nintendo…this entire thing is between Nintendo and their old rivals at Sony…had they not teamed up with them palworld would have been left alone
Quite literally they just flew to close to the sun Why couldnt they just use a non-sphere object for the catch mechanic Its easy as day to change the items and animations a bit
This is such a fraudulent abuse of the Japanese patent system, that if it gains any legal traction all game makers will be forced to preemptively file 100s of patents for every game mechanic they use, from jumping to menus to button combos. Not to actually get the patents approved, but just to have the failed applications with a date on them, so they can be used as a legal shield against patent snipers lodging after release.
I would highly recommend watching not only Moon Channel's videos on the legalities of Pokemon and its respective owners, but also Did You Know Gaming's recently released Lawyers vs. Pokemon Fan Games video. It's a good insight on how Pokemon's legal actions are caused.
WEEEELLLL if you look into when these were filed, some are as early as 2021 (arguably 2022 since it was December) and came into effect in 2023. Palworld did release the first trailer 3 years ago, which would make it 2021. So there is a chance Nintendo forsaw Palworld getting bit and just wanted to stop their growth
I could see them changing the mechanics and the lovely PocketPair APPROVED modding community just adds it back. Either that or just before the lawsuit is concluding, the source code just HAPPENS to be leaked and fans keep the game going with unofficial updates and mods.
9:26 Remember when Sun&moon came they said they would bring all the Pokemon there cause they are working on animations and new models and in reality, they just used a new shader?
No one would complain if Pokemon would put in more effort in their games... As much as I love Pokemon, I will say the games on the Switch do feel under cooked. They need more time to make their games; better graphics, more stories(perhaps a darker tone), maybe new designs for pokemon, etc.
I hope the courts acknowledge the timeline. Like, if something existed before, in so many other scenarios the thing from before is grandfathered in. If the patent didn't exist at that time, they couldn't be actively infringing on it. For all we know, they could have done the research to see what things were and weren't registered and felt comfortable using things that weren't which should have been safe.
It being an attempt to retroactively enforce a patent on a product that was already released before it was filed should get the lawsuit tossed. Not doing so sets an impossible precedent for all companies worldwide.
I come back to Ark Survival Evolved, its mods, and the myriad of "Ark clones" that rose up over the years. arceus is an Ark Clone with pokemon combat. Palworld is an Ark Clone without the pokemon combat and instead using a streamlined and way more fun tame combat system compared to ark. none of those game has ANY innovation in their aim, capture, mount, movement, or collision detection. I've seen those mechanics in modded Ark back when they introduced cryopods into the game and some modders went full ARKMON. it was YEARS before arceus was even announced, let alone had its patents sent for review by the incompetent patent offices of the US and Japan that let companies re-patent things in 2020 that were already a patent back in 1996 and had expired with no new information or technology involved(hexagonal beads in 3D printing, and pretty much any patent I have seen Nintendo and Capcom produce in recent memory).
My mind went to exactly this when I heard that Nintendo was suing over the fundamental mechanic of "throw ball catch monster". I didn't end up playing much Ark, but the Cryopod feature definitely stuck out to me as encompassing the same basic idea.
@@creater20225 yes, apparently you can't post links but there is a pokeball mod and several other mods from 2017 that add those things which would invalidate the patent as those are international public domain concept that are more than 2 years older than the patent request for the PARENT PATENT of the discussed patents(which is actually from 2020-2021 and not 2024, that is why this lawsuit can exist).
@@renthegigglefox the vanilla cryopod is an ultraman summon, which doesn't let you capture a dino from far away, you need to freeze them from up close, but some people all the way back in 2017 already made pokeball versions of those that you can throw.
While I don't agree with the way they are going about it. Pocket games had wanton disregard for copyright and other people's work. Being any more of a direct copy of Nintendo's IP would have actually been more work, since they would have to reference the original images rather than work from memory. And Palworld wasn't even their most egregious example. The patent claims might be bad, but if Pocket Games is declared innocent then it would open the flood gates for anybody to make knock off games no matter how egregious, possibly even sell a mod of a game as their own independent work.
@AnonymOus-ss9jj nah, there is nothing about copyright in this, is not how this work lmao, and If Nintendo wins, every studio will start patenting, because even if something is already made, it can be patented by others for some reason(wow had 3d capture and mounts way before Arceus) so everyone will be afraid of adding things to their games, inspiration is good for everyone, pokemon once was a dragon quest copy and paste.
@@AnonymOus-ss9jj If they'd had a copyright case, they would have brought a copyright case. They could not win fair, so they cheat. People have been making "knock off games" since the dawn of gaming. Most of the biggest franchises on the planet knocked off something else to get there.
If they had evidence of patent infringement material, I would have hoped it would be something along the lines of "Palworld was made using a game developing engine created by Game Freak and owned by Nintendo + the Pokemon Company without consent." That could have had some merit since it would be an engine within their rights; though, I don't see how Pocketpair good get anything like that without hacking or collaborating with hackers. And Nintendo isn't like Epic Games, where they release their engines to the public for anyone to use. Yeah, this is petty if they are simply suing them over a gimmick that's just a common thing in gaming anyway. Even the Megami Tensei series and Dragon Quest predating Pokemon when it comes to monster capturing mechanics. Though throwing a ball to do it was different. But still, attempting to buy the company would make more sense than a patent infringement lawsuit.
If The Pokémon Company has a problem with open world games that have a "ball capture" mechanic, then the simple solution would be to remove the balls and tame creatures by befriending them directly, and honestly, trying to patent riding creatures around an open world is ridiculous.
Someone should inform the UN Human Rights Court that Nintendo has patented the practice of good sleeping habits to represent one's own well-being and health. It is something so vital and mandatory for people that it should never be allowed to be patented and Pokemon Sleep, Alarmo or anything else is never a sufficient justification for patenting sleep.
3:22 They’re only doing this because Palworld is Pokémon like. I doubt they would ever try to sue wildcard studios over either of their ARK games which have the riding a tame in the open world as a major key game mechanic.
Me [Semi-Jokingly]: Maybe make a video on how "we" as the consumer, can tell both the Pokémon Company and Nintendo, to "F*CK OFF". They are progressively getting worse as companies... Opinions from here: Back in the day Pokémon as a game was simpler and a hell of a lot more fun. Catch creatures, raise creatures, battle creatures, evolve creatures, collect badges and complete a "PokéDex". Then do it again with "MORE" creatures. Then again with yet more creatures. Then the DS with updated graphics and I'm bored of the games that followed. Red/Blue/Yellow are classics, the humble beginnings. Gold/Silver/Crystal were hugely improved and in colour. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald were also great with a whopping 386, but started the major problem - EVENT Pokémon! From then on it hasn't been the same, though the music has been great here and there...
I did some light digging regarding the patents. While PocketPair is the immediate one affected, if Nintendo wins the lawsuit their case and jurisdiction negatively affects at least 30-40 other companies. The companies affected right after the lawsuit would be Sony, The Walt Disney Company, and Marvel. As for the other companies, a majority of which are game developers, however some are animation studios, car companies, and even the US Military, as they themselves have game developers.
I can't say I know anything about Japanese law outside of having played Ace Attorney, but it just doesn't seem like a thing that should be possible, patenting something and then suing someone who already did it before the patent was even applied for. I don't think patenting video game mechanics at all should be a thing, but even then, if this gets through, I feel like PocketPair should be entitled to many many millions of compensation for failing to file the patents before releasing Legends Arceus was announced and making them waste their time making a game they can no longer sell.
I was going to say if it's the pokeball issue then it's not that big a deal. Palworld just needs to buy up Temtem and use their Temtem disk or card thing. but Palworld kind of already has an inworld solution. You have a launcher in game that shotgun blast Pal spheres so easy dunk on that. The riding Pals in world however is where I can't see an easy solution. Either A) You can place a checkpoint somewhere and a Pal flies you there via a menu system, which is just teleportation. OR B) Instead of the Pal coming out of the ball, aspects of the pal appear on the player. Like you get Direhowl's paws and the player runs at the stats that your Dire howl has. Or you get a set of Nitewing's wings and fly at their stats. However, none of that works if Pokemon gets the injunction to stop Palworld from operating.
Couple things. The patent from 2024 are child patents from a parent patent taken 2020? Maybe even 2017? Thing is, the patent is effective since the date of the parent patent. That is way before even palworld was in production. Second, Nintendo was letting this go until Pocketpair took a deal with Sony. A bug corporation with the resources to actually screw Pokemon trademark and a company that is willing to do it at the cost of their "protege", Pocketpair This has more comoany drama in it and it is a really fun thing to watch. However, one thing to keep in mind. As long as you don't screw with the trademark they are very chill. Since Japanese laws are pretty clear, Japanese companies have little to fear from fan work and games. Thus they sue less.
"Not having patents at the time of the release of palworld" Welcome to patent 101 you should always keep your cards hidden and show them when the time comes
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Just a note, Genshin Impact had "throw a ball in the open world to capture an animal" mechanics before Arceus did.
Umm..... From what I see from Genshin. Your not swinging your arm to throw a ball. It don't even look like a ball after fire out. It more of a energy particle fire out of your hand instead. It don't even shake after capture. You can't even ride capute animal at all.
Well this not going work for nintendo sue genshin at all. It have to be really precise and identical on copying some one ideal. I would go with Craftpoia instead for better example on this instead.
Craftopia (made by Pocket pair) had the exact same mechanics 1.5 years before Legend Arceus released.
@@SimpleLifeUwUtoo bad they didn't patent it.
They could've sued pokemon for all their worth 😂
@@rajabutathem patenting that means they get the ire of the Japanese people loyal to the Pokèmon franchise.
@@rajabuta Thank god they didn't now any game can use the concept. Patenting game mechanics is so evil no popular game aaround today invented any of its concepts, the closet you you can come is halo inventing using the second joystick to aim and the first to move thank the lord they didnt patent that with how halo has fallen off imagine what microsoft would do with that.
Hold on, Nintendo patented "jumping on a monster to ride it"? Have they not heard of Monster Hunter before?
or every MMORPG that has come out in the past that has mounts which there is alot
I know literally any game with mounts would fall under this patent.
@@TheFlameSlayer Final Fantasy 1 for example. Basically any game with a mount.
they have to sue them as well.....
-cough- minecraft -cough-
correction: the pokeball patent from 2024 is a refiled, divided, smaller part of a bigger patent from 2021
BUT Poketpair also have a game from 2020 which also used a throwable capture device
Also if im not mistaken, the 2021 patent was after the Palworld reveal trailer. So to me it seems that when they saw the trailer for the game they decided to put all these patents just to kill every competitor because they HATE making and improving a Pokémon game. This infuriates me
@dergrive88 yeah but when craftopia came out in 2020 it has everything from throwing an object to capture something, riding a creature and much more. They have everything way before pokemon did their own patent. On top of that craftopia and palworld are own by pocketpair which gives Nintendo a big L for this
@dergrive88 they did other petty lawsuit that doesn't involve gaming companies the worst petty lawsuit they did when a group of people was doing charity by selling custom made Nintendo controllers made to help sell them to use the money for charity to help the children hospital and cancer program but Nintendo saw this got mad and sue them and won the lawsuit so that all that charity money goes to Nintendo instead of the children which is F-up, greedy and selfish of them. I want them to lose this lawsuit against pocketpair because they need to get stopped
"Throwing an object at a creature in 3D space" COD has to get rid of grenades now, nintendo patented it
You mentioned that it's a relatively low amount that they are charging Pocketpair for, and I suspect the reason is that they don't want Pocketpair to actually take this to court, but rather just settle up. I suspect that if they can get Pocketpair to just settle up then it effectively acts as Pocketpair admitting that Nintendo is right and it would set a precedent and legitimize the patents. But if Pocketpair can take it to court they have a fairly good standing in saying that Nintendo is wrong and effectively nullify those patents, and thus the floodgates would be open for people to make similar style games.
Don't people already make similar style games?
Take them to court
Make their patents invalid
Point and laugh
Plus the fact that taking it to court would likely be a lot more costly than just settling.
The characters of Pokomon have long been public domain. However, looking at the Japanese Patent Pictures, it is tied to a game console. I think the question is where did the license fees go to and Nintendo and Pokomon did not get their cut...Did they fire/layoff people during COVID quarantine? A lot of egos at play. If I were the judge I would ask whether Nintendo and Pokomon corporation can used their existing young people and infrastructure to develop a basic game in 72 hours with sound. PS. Looks like the standard patent trolls at work...people who don't contribute to overall development of the game...they have other patent in other industries... The show stopper is whether AI was used... An AI judge/assistant would be needed???
@@rgloria40 Japan has strict employment law. They did not terminate people during COVID not because they are good. But because they can't. But of course they use said misinformation happily and willingly to build their image.
The concept of a human throwing a ball at a creature to capture it in an open world environment was actually in Pocketpair's relatively unknown previous title Craftopia 1.5 years before Legends: Arceus released. So in reality, Pocketpair had standing to sue the other way around.
But they're not petty like that and they know that's not the point of a patent.
Could they sue Nintendo? Not that they'd win or have the finances to actually sue them successfully, the gesture itself may be enough.
@AkaiAzul At this point, I doubt it. Nintendo has the patent. But theoretically, they could have done to Nintendo what Nintendo has now done to them. But it's dirty.
@@AkaiAzul They technically could but Nintendo has WAY more time and money on their hands. The legal fees for lawyers and time in court would sky rocket over time.
@@AkaiAzul They cannot. Patent is not automatically granted to the first inventor, unlike copyright.
@@yukinankaPocket Pair invented it first, just didn't patten it.
tell me you are afraid of competition without telling me you are afraid of competition
@@psoslash
Of course they are afraid. Sony signed a deal with them, and while Pocket Pair does not have the funds to make an entire franchise, Sony does.
Sony is taking the opportunity to take a bite out of Nintendo. I mean, Sony is not doing well on console sales, and their IPs are barely recognizable since they never nurtured. Wonder why PocketPair is nowhere close to Sony's game division?
Fun is we get to see something that rarely happens: Two big companies duking it out in the legal battlefield over the Pokemon trademark.
I would argue that it’s not even competition since the two games don’t exist on the same system. I don’t see any world where palworld can actually take some of Pokémon’s sales away from Pokémon because owning palworld doesn’t deincentivize someone from also buying Pokémon
@kyallon1213
Except Palworld looks a lot like Pokemon, so the damage is more on the trademark than the sales.
When your average mother is unable to tell the difference, and she sees a monkey with a machine gun, she won't buy pokemon thinking they are the same franchise.
@ the average mother isn’t picking out video games for her kid, the kid picks out the video games that they want. If a kid wants Pokémon, then their mother would never even see Palworld because that games are on separate systems.
@kyallon1213
??
So, the mother does not go around the store to check the game the kid picked is safe? Or she is isolated from any kind of news or mentions or depictions of palworld?
Talk about unlikely.
That lawsuit is so malicious and greedy.
All because Nintendo is upset that someone made a more interesting, different version of something they haven't changed in decades.
They literally did change the series with the last two games, but sure.
@@ScarftailThe last two games… the one that ran at 15 fps, and the pair where they were so glitchy that they had an equal comparison to launch Cyberpunk.
@@makotoyuki9498 I think they meant PLA.
SWSH did nothing innovative for the franchise. It took ideas from earlier projects and dumbed them down.
PLA wasn't open world, it was a linear progression game. Also finding wild pokemon outside of traditional battle methods isn't new, Pokemon Snap for the N64 exists.
SV did do something new for the franchise, made a game so bad that even the DLC couldn't fix it.
@@megaman37456 The first one I was referencing was PLA, it ran horribly, but was a new take for the Pokémon series. The second one, as you guessed was SV, which had so much potential but failed at making a halfway decent game, and the one where hurried it next to the worse running DLC.
@@makotoyuki9498did you even play the game? it ran pretty well
Incredibly lame and will stifle innovation on a genre that desperately needs it. If Pocket Pair crowd-funded this I'd immediately support them.
It won't. These are patents..
And Nintendo can just not enforce them. Here, their hand was forced by Sony.
@@Big_Dai sony dont own palworld, they are just partners
@@Big_Dai Nintendo's hand wasn't forced at all. This just Nintendo being their usual asshat selves.
@@derick5295 True, but Sony is kinda hurting for a good franchise under their wing.
They have the capitol and studios to super charge Pocket Pair to turn Palworld into something bigger.
It's very telling that Nintendo isn't going after Pocket Pair financially. You can tell they're after an injunction and setting the precedent.
@@horrorfan117 yeah, the charge is nothing, but Nintendo want to shut Palworld down, I really want that sony at least help pocket pair
Dude. you failed to see that those 3 patents are filed AFTER palworld's release. And the Killer parent patent those 3 patents are updates to is filed by 2021 but the game mechanic was invented by Pocketpair for Craftopia released in 2020. the riding mechanic was also used by Pocketpair in craftopia
Many patents have been filed after things have been release. It’s because of the copying that one files patents for. The patent office then investigates who did what first, then decides if the patents get approved.
You can retroactively sue people if you get the patent first.
I guess nobody thought anyone would try to be so greedy to patent MOUNTING.
Is world of warcraft next? World of final fantasy? That game has riding.
it's not about who does it first its who paten first
Nintendo originally patented those ideas much earlier actually. The dates are just the result of approval system. The original date of effect is written on the patent paper if you read carefully. I know it’s confusing, but I’m sure that devs of palworld mentioned the later dates in their statement in purpose to get people confused as you are. I was too.
Also the idea is not just mounting or throwing balls at monsters. They are much more complex combinations of motions, calculations and effects.
Nintendo is just knowing their rights.
Doesn't he mention it at 4:45?
It's crazy to think that Temtem Came before Palworld, and Nintendo was OK with it being on the Switch. Not to mention, they're STILL safe from this patent because while you can still MOUNT yourself on your Tems, you can only throw Temcards in battle. And I think that's hilarious. Thanks for this. I needed this while I'm here being sick.
Not just other monster games... They are not going after any of the dozen of mobile games... even Dragon Quest's latest game was a monster collector/battler.
But if it is such a broad patent that patent essentially means they haven't been defending it for over 30 years.
They didn't sue World of Warcraft - Activision Blizzard Entertainment one of the largest games in the world when they added pet capturing involving throwing objects at weakened pets, pet battling and mounts in an Open World environment for over 15 years.
This is not Nintendo suing Pocket Pair, but basically Sony.. which acquired the game as a potential and ACTUAL rival!
The game you mentioned didn't sell as much, and had NOT received backing from a bigger company, nor has been able to advertise or create as much merchandise to sway the market. Sony made the first move, so this is a response.
@@boxhead6177to be clear Dragon Quest Moster is almost as old as pokemon.
@ZeroTaichi which makes the argument in 30 years they never defended their patent, or gave permission to others to use said patent, which means through inaction they forfeit their right to it.
@@boxhead6177 The patents in this case are fairly new, only made in the last few years.
They had nothing to "defend" in that regard the rest of the time.
Sony needs to back up Pocket Pair in this scenario. I really don't understand why Nintendo is doing this now, there are dozens of monster catching games on the Switch like Monster Hunter Stories and Dragon Quest Monster already,
Palworld was getting into merchandising and Nintendo can’t have that competition.
@@mittensfastpawFunny thing is that Monster Hunter also sells merchandise of their games too (yes, including Stories)
Since Capcom is also a Japanese company, I wonder how this will affect them and if they’ll do anything. 🤔
Monster Hunter Stories and Dragon Quest was sold on nintendo console so Nintendo themselves able to get some profits from it . Palworld however is not , and Sony partner with PP for future merchandise was what trigger the ever paranoid Nintendo .
simple nintendo are sore losers that cant make a new game no matter what they do all pokemon games are the same ignoring he new evolution way and new pokemons so they want to bully them because for them thats like they are better than us lets use laws to suck them dry
@grimlocked472 Many of the big-name developers and corporations are on good terms with each other over in Japan. Sony and Nintendo however have a bitter history going back to Nintendo backing out of that Playstation deal. The moment PocketPair signed up with Sony the fight was on.
If only game freak put as much effort making games as they did suing people
Fr.
Game freak did literally nothing here they weren't even mentioned in any of this lmao what are you on
Don't mess with pokemon fans, we don't know the difference between TPC, Gamefreak, and Nintendo!
It can be assumed GF are still working on upcoming pokemon titles. the lawsuit is coming from tpc and nintendo.
this is a joint lawsuit between tpc and nintendo .. gamefreak has nothing to do with this lmfao
What's wild to me is that most here in Japan have the opposite opinion on the situation in that they believe Pocket Pair is stealing, but most seem to be convinced the lawsuit is over copyright, when it's not.
Even Nintendo knows they don't got anything on copyright
@@rajabuta Yeah from what I heard, the lawyers on both sides already checked that.
The designs are different enough to be safe legally.
Japans is too indoctrinated
@@rajabuta they 100% do, but they would just change the designs in response. A patent will kill the game outright.
@@knightofcarrion7358 suing them for what basically amounts to 65k from a game that has profited more than 400 millions?
That sure shows how confident they are in this case huh xD
Yeah no. Nintendo is basically acting like a patent troll because they got no grounds on copyright infringement.
People seem to forget that palworld is a japanese game. They've had their bases covered. It's not like palworld is a chinese game where copyright laws are looser.
A good court would shame Nintendo for this.
As far as i can see it , this is mainly Nintendo retaliating against Sony. Nintendo could have filed the lawsuit any time in the last half a year , but they only did after Sony and Pocketpair announced their Partnership. So i think this is a Pokemon Company vs Palworld Company thing , and Patent rights are a pain to deal with , if Nintendo could have protected their TradeMark and ideas / concepts by filing a Copy Right Lawsuit they would have done so. Cuz nobody wants to deal with Patent Rights. That said i bet this Lawsuit was only made to setup a clear line that the other company is not allowed to cross.
If this actually has a major impact on the already existing Palworld , which had its Public outing before the Patents got secured by Nintendo , is yet to be seen.
Because as far as im aware , you cant retroactively do that in court .
But yeah it absolutely means that as long as Nintendo holds the Patents , there cant be a Palworld 2 or whatever in the future with the same patented mechanics.
You’re got the point, the real reason for this lawsuit!
Nintendo is clearly acting to defend itself from the impending partnership between Sony and Palword, because it knows full well that it absolutely cannot tolerate the existence of “Pokémon for PlayStation”.
They probably already heard something earlier this year, when they said they would “investigate”, but when their worst nightmare came true they had to act and reveal their trump cards.
Of course, it is also convenient for PocketPair to play the victim, the “small indie company” that is attacked by the “evil multinational”, and for this reason they were the ones who revealed the killer patents and the fine against them, but maybe it's just my imagination…
The idea that Nintendo can now destroy the global video game market by filing lawsuits left and right is completely absurd. In reality, Nintendo only acts if threatened by a real competitor (or an aspiring one) or if its intellectual property is used improperly, and Palword falls perfectly into this category. The novice developer or the TRUE "small indie company" have nothing to fear... until they decide to DELIBERATELY make a shameless copy of one of their games!
@@JuniorD99WD True
Its funny how most people from the west side with Pocketpair and people from the east side with Nintendo. Because they dont see the full picture.
Nintendo didnt lash out against other MonCollector games either , and that has nothing to do with the amount of money those others make.
The others simply didnt partner up with a Behemoth like Sony. Thats all there is to it.
@@JuniorD99WD The problem is that it sets a precedent for other games companies to patent games mechanics “just in case”. If *all* of the companies start doing this for fear of some other new company being more successful, big backer or not, then we’re looking at the death of innovation in gaming. Because from that point, all that matters is who has more money to win the suit
Nintendo didn't try to sue before because this is risky, if they lost, the patenta might be harmed, but with Sony trying to make their own "pokemon company" with the pal world brand, they are getting nervous and trying to at least stall. Or stop, or even just drag the company names through the mud to save face.
I saw something else cover this topic and yeah, Sony needs to F off so we can have our Palworld in legal peace.
"mounting animals/monsters is copyright"
Elden Ring, Assassins Creed, Minecraft, Monster Hunter, etc
so... if a make an open world game where i can ride around on horseback, I'm infringing a approved patent owned by Nintendo????!
If they have a horseback riding patent, yes.
But most likely, you can make such a game and Nintendo won't ever pay you any mind.
@@Big_Dai in the video they said Nintendo just asked for and got a patent for this though, but more so for mounts not specifically horse back riding. So many games have mounts tho its crazy nintendo is doing this.
In Japan yes, if you make it in the states, Nintendo would be laughed out of court.
@Big_Dai So a dev just needs to hope their game doesn’t become too successful for Big Nintendo to notice? That’s f***ing evil and it’ll ruin the industry.
This can ruin the gaming industry.
Imagine a world when every game company is racing to who can patent game mechanics the most... What a Tragedy 😢
Soon
It may be that we are already in that world. EA has started suing other game companies and studios for using the gacha mechanism and loot boxes.
This already happend its the 80s to 2010 some have expired some you dont even know that exist
Like the infamous namco patenting minigames on loading screens
@@CERISTHEDEV Wasn't that Namco?
@@X2011racer yeah ive confused the names
When I see companies sue other companies over a patent that they cant do the same idea feels petty to me. I prefer if both companies came togather and innovate and share ideas. I prefer when companies get along and share experiences That's my unpopular opinion.
its not unpopular at all
If Nintendo wins this - they'll be groundpounded by hundreds of other companies for patents and copyrights THEY infringed, but not been held accountable yet.
It should be mentioned that the patents were originally from 2021 and were just updated multiple times over the years.
Craftopia in 2020 before Nintendo's patents in 2021 says hello...
@@enjitanaka9020 Dragon quest and Yokai Watch and Digimon and Final Fantasy say hello too
But he said the patent was filed afterwords. That's misinformation if you're correct.
So if I file a patent for using monsters to battle other monsters, I should then be able to sue Nintendo and Gamefreak for millions, right?
if you get the patent in Japan then you could try but the court would most likely side with Nintendo regardless of you having the patent because Nintendo is an old and big companie which in Japans culture makes Nintendo a prestigious company that sould always be favored over newer and smaller companies.
yes, definetely but that's only if nintendo themselves didn't have that patent.
Wow. Talk about being petty. Honestly, Nintendo has a bit too much power in how they control the clone of their various game franchises.
Is taking advantage of legal means petty? Why do such systems exist in the first place?
If Nintendo has not made these patents first, some idiot would have come for them first! This is Nintendo protecting their golden-cow as well as attacking Sony's advanced of acquiring a game/company that can rival their empire.
Is taking advantage of legal means petty? Why do such systems exist in the first place?
If Nintendo has not made these patents first, some idiot would have come for them first! This is Nintendo protecting their golden-cow as well as attacking Sony's advanced of acquiring a game/company that can rival their empire.
@@Big_Dai Sony didn't acquire PocketPair, my god how many people actually are dumb enough to believe this? Sony Music *partnered with* not *acquired* Pocketpair to make Physical Merch like a trading card game, plushies, and even an anime.
megaman37456 And even if they did that wouldn’t justify what Nintendo is doing, this is unprecedented and could ruin gaming.
Nintendo is not the only company with an open-world monster catching game. Take these games as prime examples: Dragon Quest (Bandai), Digimon (Bandai), Yokai Watch, and Monster Hunter (Capcom)
I think dragon quest is "square enix" but yeah the point still tue same, the worst case scenario they can even sue any game with same mechanic. And the worse case this can apply to other game to. Like monster hunter with there "capture net", Final fantasy summoning mechanic, or any game with capture item, ride can tranform freely and any patent nintendo have.
None of those games use "throwing balls" to capture monsters.
@@YesThisIsCrass what if palworld made a cube instead that the shoot out of a cannon they can get away with thst
Nintendo needs to be forcibly reminded that the creature collector rpg subgenre is a SUBGENRE. They do not own the concept. They don't even do the concept WELL anymore!
Then if thats the case then sue ark, dragon’s quest, shimigami tensei, digimon since they wanna patent gameplay. D&D should sue them for using “EXP” leveling system since it was the first game to have a system like this.
didn't Palworld devs admit that they get some ideas from ARK Survival Evolved, the Pokemon portion is more design than game mechanic
I dunno, but making inspired and iterative projects should be okay.
ARK mods and even base ARK had the whole monster capturing by throwing objects for years now, with cryofreeze and soul orbs.
If PocketPair has to remove the mounting system from Palword, then Studio Wildcart may have to remove a similar mounting system from Ark, just because in that game too you also can mount, ride, demount and smoothly switch between these modes and even without loading screens. I hope that many game companies and studios would sue Nintendo against Nintendo's mounting system patent that claims Nintendo a monopoly on riding in video games.
And the UN Human Rights Court should sue Nintendo for patenting sleeping. Nintendo hasn't invented that people can practice good sleeping habits to promote their own well-being and health, and Pokemon Sleep and Alarmo aren't sufficient justifications for a patent that patents something vital and mandatory for people like sleeping.
The biggest threat here isn't the money, it's the injunction. Pocket Pair had huge plans for multiple properties of the Palworld brand, not just the game, but also an Anime series, which is why they are teaming up with Sony. Basically Palworld is starting to do what Pokemon did to get so big, and THAT's why this lawsuit happened. People use Nintendo's patents all the time in their games without asking first, and Nintendo usually doesn't care because those games never infringe upon the IP of Nintendo's properties, and they never get too big to be a threat to the company on their own.
But Palworld is different. This is a game who's creatures and capture mechanics are designed to poke at the bit of your brain that knows the Pokemon brand, but without being direct copyright ripoffs. Palworld is meant to be a Pokemon game that does it better than actual Pokemon, and you know what? It succeeded.
Japan doesn't see it that way though. They don't have a problem with IP monopoly because in Japanese culture, you're supposed to show respect to the biggest, richest company/entity on the block. Any sign of disrespect is to be met with swift retribution. Japanese courts know that Nintendo is a lot bigger than Pocket Pair, and so even if Pocket Pair would win this case legally, they will lose in practice, because the courts will just side with Nintendo out of respect for the bigger entity.
Which I think should change. They're supporting monopolies, and it's disgusting.
Craftopia 2020 Predates PLA with these mechanics. Nintendo can be ANhilated.
I hope Nintendo loses! That makes me mad they would do that.
Technically there are rules that apply that they shouldn't have even been allowed to follow a patent for these normal gameplay mechanics.
This is so unfair and if they win I hope the internet speak up and puts this to an end Game freak cannot get away with this
Riding a creature patent might not work, because many open world games have horse riding.
Plus that would be like patenting jumping, or drowning underwater. Something that exists in real life.
The way to not get sued by Nintendo and its associated companies is to have your base of operations housed in the United States and by doing so you would be under the United States copyright law instead of the shity Japanese copyright system which seems to allow a lot of shenanigans and bs loopholes.
Moon had a really good breakdown of the lawsuit and all the context behind it. His video basically boils it down to the old back-and-forth rivalry with Sony. Even though I'm a big pokemon fan and don’t care for
palworld at all, I hope Nintendo loses this lawsuit. Game mechanics shouldn’t be patented to begin with, and I hope the competition forces them to actually make good pokemon games again. As much as I love the series, SV was an absolute trainwreck and I'm crossing all my fingers that the extra time they’re spending on Legends Z means we'll get something more polished.
This is law used in a most evil way. This patent should have never been allowed. This is worse than WB and the nemesis engine. What’s next? Capcom patents 2-d fighters, Namco 3-d fighters, Microsoft flight simulation?
Step1: Patent catching animals or objects in an open world with the "Magic Pal Lasso"
Step2 : Change the Pal Sphere Mechanic to a Lasso fishing mini game style mechanic. Call it the FU rope.
Step 3: Tell Nintendo to get stuffed.
Also riding an animal/creature in an open world environment??? Red Dead, MGS5, You have so much "Prior Art" defence against that patent that it should be dismissed with prejudice.
Just one problem with the riding part. Most mounts won't help you fight, pokemon/pals do.
@@captainjoltz4929 Skyrim. The horses there can and will fight. Sometimes they run, but sometimes they will straight up fight, and even have damage values for doing so.
@@captainjoltz4929 don't forget about the ark dino mounts.
Plus pretty sure the "mount riding mechanic" falls under the same logic why they couldn't patent jumping, because it is a REAL WORLD mechanic.
So, they filed patents on two (or more) ideas that were in use long before they filed the patents by several other game companies. I kind of feel like the end result is that the patents should be assigned to the actual first users of each mechanic and Nintendo should have to 1) remove all of its infringing games and 2) pay horrendous damages to the new patent holders of their wrongfully filed patents.
Next, the patents should then be invalidated because these mechanics were already "in the wild", in use by multiple entities, and therefore should be considered in the public domain at this point. But I really want to see Nintendo eat a giant crap sandwich over this.
One interesting perspective on the matter that's been brought up recently is that it's highly likely this isn't really about palworld itself, but about sony; about how sony's partnership with pocketpair has worrying parallels with nintendo's initial partnership with gamefreak and how they may fear sony would take charge of marketing for the palworld IP and basically weaponize it by being intentionally confusing, either to leech of pokemon's existing popularity, or to damage it. Which tbf, is absolutely something sony would do.
And honestly, the fact that they didn't sue at all until the sony partnership was unveiled and yet, took until now to present an actual case, lends weight to this theory.
If this ends up being true, chances are they'd have left palworld well alone if not for that partnership, so, unfortunate victim here. Because while the method used to go after it is indeed as scummy as it gets, if it's to prevent greater damage from sony itself... I get it. I hate it, but I get it.
Sony just saw a chance to potentially make their own "pokemon company" and we'll, Nintendo is not going to let that happen without a fight of some sort, yeah.
Nintendo would get completely wrecked if they tried to do this in US courts. Things must be different in Japanese courts.
5:43 oh, no this may be worse, it’s not about the money, Nintendo is sending a message.
Imagine them spending all the money they did on these patents instead of spending it on fixing what's wrong with the Switch hardware. Imagine.
While we can agree Palworld doesn't have an original bone in its body, the game is still a wonderful Frankenstein of MANY excellent ideas that were mostly being squandered elsewhere.
If nothing else, I hopes this forces Pokemon Company to actually CARE about the Pokemon games, if even a little...
From what I understand, that was the basic idea behind Craftopia back at release.
"Wouldn't it be great if you could do all that stuff in one game?"
Putting game mechanics under a patent should be illegal. That being said, any judge in their right mind would throw this out immediately.
Nintendo and specifically the pokemom company has been really paintint itself in a bad light with the way they handle things, paired with how poor the new games are.. maybe its time to let the giant rest
There's another channel called "Moon Channel" and the guy who runs it is a lawyer. His recent video goes into a lot more detail but it can be partially summed up as follows:
Remember how Sony first got started with the PlayStation? It was originally going to be a Nintendo console before the two companies parted ways. But Sony was gearing up to OWN Nintendo, and Nintendo backed out of the merger. Follow the money and you'll find Palworld was partially funded by companies owned by Sony. Let that sink in. Sony and Nintendo are both Japanese companies. Judging them through a Western lens is always going to paint Nintendo as the bad guy. Looking at this lawsuit through an eastern lens, that's when the historical context between these two companies starts to shine light on the current situation.
Still makes nintendo a patent troll ngl.
So as a small company, you can't become popular? you can't ally with big companies or receive investments from others ? It's BS, what this Moon Channel guy concluded in part of his video is basically the way how a company growing its business, it's so univeral and vague, and most importantly, the same process, the same philosophy can be applied to Game freak and even Nintendo itself.
@VideoGameStoryTime Basically what the lawuit is boiling down to (like boiling eggs for potato salad), is Nintendo & TPC are suing PocketPair for having BASIC GAME MECHANICS that every other game has as well that has been using the SAME EXACT MECHANICS way before Pokemon and Palworld started using it, so in turn by what it looks like already is a invalid and voidable lawsuit that should straight up get shrugged off and pushed to the side, and the patents Nintendo filed over them being invalid and revoked.
Probably more to the story with a lot of implication to society in general. I would ask both parties develop a basic game with should in 72 hours with their "new" young hires...according to judge direction and choice... The real question should it be a AI judge or the judge given an AI assistant?
The lawsuit is not trying to kill Palworld via money, hence the low money ask, but via the "Palworld must cease" clause, as SONY just made a joint enterprise with PocketPair.
Waiting for an open-world monster catching game in which you throw DND Dices as fruits and tame the monster with a nat20. That way you don‘t catch it and it isn’t a ball.
To the patent of riding a monster. Let the monster just grab you and physically carry you to another place. That way you don’t ride it, you just get carried away to somewhere else by a monster.
Hope Pocketpair wins, because Monopolizing particular things as big as gaming is Illegal.
They would be committing a literal crime.
I'm not a Sony Pony at all and don't trust Sony, but if they can get Nintendo to shut up and let creativity soar if they are too lazy to do it themselves, then let them speak up.
Wait, I could swear that greater involvement of private companies in society would guarantee greater freedom.
How crazy.
Filing a lawsuit, for copyright infringement, on a patent that was filed AFTER the supposed infringement took place, 100% makes this a frivilous lawsuit, and Pocket Pair should countersue Nintendo.
Does Nintendo even have legal standing here? Putting aside the stupidity of patenting game mechanics, shouldn't the patent be invalid if something of that description already existed?
Sounds like you need to read on patents.
@@Big_Dai Well, a quick search for "can you patent something that already exists?" would seem to indicate that I am right.
@@timschommer8548 In the west, yes. In japan, not so much.
Wel... Spoon, fork, knife and scissors are one of the most patented things and the product improves very little between different models. But I still don't think it's right to patent something that already exists or to patent the same thing several times. We would need a better global patent system that would be more precise also and stricter on patent filings.
@@danielmalinen6337 Yeah, someone actually managed to patent the wheel. THE WHEEL. Let that sink in. The patent system is a joke, you can patent anything if you word it correctly.
I'm Japanese. Thank you for posting the video.
It's very hard to defend Palworld in Japan, and so many people blindly support Nintendo.
Palworld is quite hated due to the similarity of character designs and the CEO's immature remarks, and many people even consider the existence of the game to be evil.
There is a trend of hating Palworld so much that a patent lawsuit is the only way to punish the game.
Many Japanese people believe that Nintendo will only destroy rude companies and will forgive well-behaved companies.
In other words, they seem to think that this lawsuit will not affect the game industry.
I don't think people around the world will believe this. Even as a Japanese person, I feel uneasy.
Nintendo may be planning to continue doing business without any explanation after defeating Palworld. Nintendo is responsible for obtaining patents and using them in court. I would like them to explain the reason for this behavior.
Isn't this the texbook definition of a patent troll?
Yeah...this will never float. Especially if someone mentions the phrase "patent trolling" to Nintendo and mentions all the countries that have made that illegal.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a big part of the lawsuit is that Nintendo HAS been working on some big open-world Pokemon game, and seeing Palworld so successfully beat them to the punch has left them a tad peeved.
This isn’t between pocket pair and Nintendo…this entire thing is between Nintendo and their old rivals at Sony…had they not teamed up with them palworld would have been left alone
I find it interesting that Tem Tem and Cassette Beasts are fine, but Palworld is crossing the line.
Quite literally they just flew to close to the sun
Why couldnt they just use a non-sphere object for the catch mechanic
Its easy as day to change the items and animations a bit
This is such a fraudulent abuse of the Japanese patent system, that if it gains any legal traction all game makers will be forced to preemptively file 100s of patents for every game mechanic they use, from jumping to menus to button combos.
Not to actually get the patents approved, but just to have the failed applications with a date on them, so they can be used as a legal shield against patent snipers lodging after release.
It's wild to me you can file a patent after said patented thing already exists in the public and then sue on that. Feels super corrupt.
Nintendo: We've made a new patent : Having playing characters and usable cursors.
I would highly recommend watching not only Moon Channel's videos on the legalities of Pokemon and its respective owners, but also Did You Know Gaming's recently released Lawyers vs. Pokemon Fan Games video. It's a good insight on how Pokemon's legal actions are caused.
WEEEELLLL if you look into when these were filed, some are as early as 2021 (arguably 2022 since it was December) and came into effect in 2023. Palworld did release the first trailer 3 years ago, which would make it 2021. So there is a chance Nintendo forsaw Palworld getting bit and just wanted to stop their growth
I can't wait for Pocket Pair to pull an uno reverse or something
I could see them changing the mechanics and the lovely PocketPair APPROVED modding community just adds it back.
Either that or just before the lawsuit is concluding, the source code just HAPPENS to be leaked and fans keep the game going with unofficial updates and mods.
As a pokemon fan....Nintendo/Pokemon are just being despicable
The first time Nintendo really gets challenged and they sue the competition. Dishonest and dirty behavior. Disrespectful and dishonorable.
I think he's right that it's not about money, I think it's about precedent for future petty suits
9:26 Remember when Sun&moon came they said they would bring all the Pokemon there cause they are working on animations and new models
and in reality, they just used a new shader?
No one would complain if Pokemon would put in more effort in their games...
As much as I love Pokemon, I will say the games on the Switch do feel under cooked. They need more time to make their games; better graphics, more stories(perhaps a darker tone), maybe new designs for pokemon, etc.
I feel like the patient would be taken away from Nintendo and The Pokemon Company. This seems like something that would be too vague
I would just like people to know that, in Spawnwave's newest video, it's mentioned that the patents actually go back to 2021
Palworld is cooked guys
Taking petty, pathetic and anti competition to another level.
And yet nobody blinked when the Nemesis system got patented.
I hope the courts acknowledge the timeline. Like, if something existed before, in so many other scenarios the thing from before is grandfathered in. If the patent didn't exist at that time, they couldn't be actively infringing on it. For all we know, they could have done the research to see what things were and weren't registered and felt comfortable using things that weren't which should have been safe.
Saw this coming. They were waiting until the developer made a viable profit to rob from them.
The patents in a nutshell:
1. Throw a grenade
2. have a pet
3. ride a horse.
I can imagine the rush of publishers patenting their mechanics all around the world
It being an attempt to retroactively enforce a patent on a product that was already released before it was filed should get the lawsuit tossed. Not doing so sets an impossible precedent for all companies worldwide.
7:47 These are divisional patents. Original versions were filed in 2021, so Nintendo unfortunately does have a proper case here.
I wish more people online would realise this.
Except they don't...because of craftopia. Has similar systems, came before the patents. There, prior art.
@@DakumunDahBat Similar ball catching systems, sure. But I'm more worried about the patent for contextual mounting.
The Pokemon Company didn't have a problem with this when Monster Hunter Stories came out with riding a monster in an open world.
I come back to Ark Survival Evolved, its mods, and the myriad of "Ark clones" that rose up over the years.
arceus is an Ark Clone with pokemon combat.
Palworld is an Ark Clone without the pokemon combat and instead using a streamlined and way more fun tame combat system compared to ark.
none of those game has ANY innovation in their aim, capture, mount, movement, or collision detection.
I've seen those mechanics in modded Ark back when they introduced cryopods into the game and some modders went full ARKMON.
it was YEARS before arceus was even announced, let alone had its patents sent for review by the incompetent patent offices of the US and Japan that let companies re-patent things in 2020 that were already a patent back in 1996 and had expired with no new information or technology involved(hexagonal beads in 3D printing, and pretty much any patent I have seen Nintendo and Capcom produce in recent memory).
My mind went to exactly this when I heard that Nintendo was suing over the fundamental mechanic of "throw ball catch monster". I didn't end up playing much Ark, but the Cryopod feature definitely stuck out to me as encompassing the same basic idea.
there where mods that basicly turned ark into pokemon survival
@@creater20225 yes, apparently you can't post links but there is a pokeball mod and several other mods from 2017 that add those things which would invalidate the patent as those are international public domain concept that are more than 2 years older than the patent request for the PARENT PATENT of the discussed patents(which is actually from 2020-2021 and not 2024, that is why this lawsuit can exist).
@@renthegigglefox the vanilla cryopod is an ultraman summon, which doesn't let you capture a dino from far away, you need to freeze them from up close, but some people all the way back in 2017 already made pokeball versions of those that you can throw.
So a patent of dubious validity due to prior art, that palworld might have a grandfather clause for? This is sketchier than I expected.
if nintendo wins the gaming industry will became patent hell
There have already been some pretty awful gaming patents, but these would take the cake.
@timogul yeah, and I can see it becoming a snowball and starting a patent war, sadly
While I don't agree with the way they are going about it. Pocket games had wanton disregard for copyright and other people's work. Being any more of a direct copy of Nintendo's IP would have actually been more work, since they would have to reference the original images rather than work from memory. And Palworld wasn't even their most egregious example. The patent claims might be bad, but if Pocket Games is declared innocent then it would open the flood gates for anybody to make knock off games no matter how egregious, possibly even sell a mod of a game as their own independent work.
@AnonymOus-ss9jj nah, there is nothing about copyright in this, is not how this work lmao, and If Nintendo wins, every studio will start patenting, because even if something is already made, it can be patented by others for some reason(wow had 3d capture and mounts way before Arceus) so everyone will be afraid of adding things to their games, inspiration is good for everyone, pokemon once was a dragon quest copy and paste.
@@AnonymOus-ss9jj If they'd had a copyright case, they would have brought a copyright case. They could not win fair, so they cheat. People have been making "knock off games" since the dawn of gaming. Most of the biggest franchises on the planet knocked off something else to get there.
Trying to control a massive portion of the gaming industry and crush creative freedom via a BS system? (Patents) This is yakuza behavior.
If they had evidence of patent infringement material, I would have hoped it would be something along the lines of "Palworld was made using a game developing engine created by Game Freak and owned by Nintendo + the Pokemon Company without consent." That could have had some merit since it would be an engine within their rights; though, I don't see how Pocketpair good get anything like that without hacking or collaborating with hackers. And Nintendo isn't like Epic Games, where they release their engines to the public for anyone to use.
Yeah, this is petty if they are simply suing them over a gimmick that's just a common thing in gaming anyway. Even the Megami Tensei series and Dragon Quest predating Pokemon when it comes to monster capturing mechanics. Though throwing a ball to do it was different. But still, attempting to buy the company would make more sense than a patent infringement lawsuit.
If The Pokémon Company has a problem with open world games that have a "ball capture" mechanic, then the simple solution would be to remove the balls and tame creatures by befriending them directly, and honestly, trying to patent riding creatures around an open world is ridiculous.
they will also soon be patenting health bars, menus, boss battles, crafting items, and dodging
How not to get sued by Nintendo: Step 1 don't be successful. If they don't notice you, you'll survive.
Someone should inform the UN Human Rights Court that Nintendo has patented the practice of good sleeping habits to represent one's own well-being and health. It is something so vital and mandatory for people that it should never be allowed to be patented and Pokemon Sleep, Alarmo or anything else is never a sufficient justification for patenting sleep.
Nintendo is such a jerk.
I've said it before. I'll say it again. Patents shouldn't exist. You do not own ideas. I can think whatever I want.
3:22 They’re only doing this because Palworld is Pokémon like. I doubt they would ever try to sue wildcard studios over either of their ARK games which have the riding a tame in the open world as a major key game mechanic.
Me [Semi-Jokingly]: Maybe make a video on how "we" as the consumer, can tell both the Pokémon Company and Nintendo, to "F*CK OFF". They are progressively getting worse as companies...
Opinions from here:
Back in the day Pokémon as a game was simpler and a hell of a lot more fun. Catch creatures, raise creatures, battle creatures, evolve creatures, collect badges and complete a "PokéDex". Then do it again with "MORE" creatures. Then again with yet more creatures. Then the DS with updated graphics and I'm bored of the games that followed. Red/Blue/Yellow are classics, the humble beginnings. Gold/Silver/Crystal were hugely improved and in colour. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald were also great with a whopping 386, but started the major problem - EVENT Pokémon!
From then on it hasn't been the same, though the music has been great here and there...
I did some light digging regarding the patents. While PocketPair is the immediate one affected, if Nintendo wins the lawsuit their case and jurisdiction negatively affects at least 30-40 other companies. The companies affected right after the lawsuit would be Sony, The Walt Disney Company, and Marvel.
As for the other companies, a majority of which are game developers, however some are animation studios, car companies, and even the US Military, as they themselves have game developers.
Patents should not be able to be filed for video games this is just ridiculous
I can't say I know anything about Japanese law outside of having played Ace Attorney, but it just doesn't seem like a thing that should be possible, patenting something and then suing someone who already did it before the patent was even applied for.
I don't think patenting video game mechanics at all should be a thing, but even then, if this gets through, I feel like PocketPair should be entitled to many many millions of compensation for failing to file the patents before releasing Legends Arceus was announced and making them waste their time making a game they can no longer sell.
I was going to say if it's the pokeball issue then it's not that big a deal. Palworld just needs to buy up Temtem and use their Temtem disk or card thing. but Palworld kind of already has an inworld solution. You have a launcher in game that shotgun blast Pal spheres so easy dunk on that. The riding Pals in world however is where I can't see an easy solution. Either A) You can place a checkpoint somewhere and a Pal flies you there via a menu system, which is just teleportation. OR B) Instead of the Pal coming out of the ball, aspects of the pal appear on the player. Like you get Direhowl's paws and the player runs at the stats that your Dire howl has. Or you get a set of Nitewing's wings and fly at their stats. However, none of that works if Pokemon gets the injunction to stop Palworld from operating.
Couple things.
The patent from 2024 are child patents from a parent patent taken 2020? Maybe even 2017? Thing is, the patent is effective since the date of the parent patent. That is way before even palworld was in production.
Second, Nintendo was letting this go until Pocketpair took a deal with Sony. A bug corporation with the resources to actually screw Pokemon trademark and a company that is willing to do it at the cost of their "protege", Pocketpair
This has more comoany drama in it and it is a really fun thing to watch. However, one thing to keep in mind. As long as you don't screw with the trademark they are very chill. Since Japanese laws are pretty clear, Japanese companies have little to fear from fan work and games. Thus they sue less.
"Not having patents at the time of the release of palworld"
Welcome to patent 101 you should always keep your cards hidden and show them when the time comes
Pokémon has such a lame version of flying, just gliding 😂😂