A crisis of the imagination | Aaron Bastani Meets Rutger Bregman
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- "Taxes" was the word on everyone's lips after the annual Davos conference this year. The man who had dared utter it amongst the financial elite was Rutger Bregman, a Dutch historian whose no nonsense savaging of the establishment brought him viral fame.
His latest book 'Utopia for Realists: And How We Can Get There' argues the case for a Universal Basic Income, Open Borders, and a 15-hour Work Week. Aaron sat down with him to unpack some of the ideas in the book and discuss the utopia that Bregman sketches out.
Special thanks to Blake House Filmmakers Cooperative.
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Aaron's biceps desperately trying to escape the oppression of his sleeves.
Like a boob crop top that teases a view of the nipples. Quite stimulating I guess.
I agree. A failure of the imagination. Dr. Paul Farmer talks about this in what he sees in his work with patients in Haiti. He says this "failure of the imagination" is linked to this idea that some lives matter less than others. I think that's the real issue, and why we have such disparities in wealth and income and healthcare and dignified jobs and housing--you name it. Because there is this idea that some lives matter less than others, and also that people are poor or sick because of some moral failing on their part, rather than the fact that they just lack the cash to deal with health problems or housing or whatever. We need to change this way of thinking if humanity is going to survive, honestly.
Margarita Failure of the imagination is called Greed.
Aaron can single handedly start the revolution with those guns.
LOL. Yeah.
Got his lil shirt rolled up like popeye, just needs a cobb pipe, sailors hat and an anchor tattoo, hahahhaa.
17:30 - I can second that. The single most naturally gifted person I ever met. Brilliant, just brilliant. Went into banking. What a complete waste.
Wow great interview, congrats Novara.
Rutger Bregman is one fascinating dude! 👌👍
The Green Party were talking about UBI in1986.
Excellent interview. Aaron does a very good job here and Rutger Bregman is consistently interesting.
I always love to hear what Rutger Bregman has to say
Rutger Bregman is very impressive here. Well handled interview.
I am skeptical that we could just go back to the good old days of social democracy. I mean even if it could get rid of homelessness, poverty, hunger etc. in wealthy western countries, it still wouldn't touch the global imperialist capitalist system that we have in which the rich western countries extract all the wealth from so called third world countries impoverishing them further and further. Also historically this welfare capitalism really just came as a response to the socialist countries which provided all the basic human services and filled the basic needs so capitalism in the west had to at least try to do the same. I certainly appreciate what Rutger is doing and of course those things which he talks about would be a step in the right direction for now.
Yes I can imagine us going waayyy beyond this...but this is a good start.
It's amazing to see how good independent interviewers have become compared to the news media formats. Keep up the great work, mate!
suns out guns out
If this is the outer limits of radicalism, then are we fucked? Modest UBI, a 50s style financial sector, companies that actually pay there taxes? We need more than this...
Cracking interview. Big topics. Great questions.
Excellent, thoughtful and informed interview. Most of the questions were challenging without being dismissive or closed minded- Aaron should teach journalism.
Another great interview, very interesting.
Cheers.
I've never been a fan of "We need to tax the rich" strategies on the left: it means conceding a bit too much of the economic ground to the right. That said, Messr. Bregman's "appearance" on Tucker Carlson was absolutely hysterical.
Looking forward to this.
@@Dannzzx It implicitly assumes that the fundamentals of the system are OK. This is in general a bad idea; the real question is why should we have a system in which one class is in charge of the distribution of what another class produces, not what the tax rate should be. Compare it to the cause of the abolitionists - the question was how to abolish slavery, not how to improve the lives of slaves while keeping slavery in place at any cost.
However, when you face a huge crisis in the system, the state fixing it by taxing the only people who actually have the money is usually how it must go.
Jack Gordon
Even as electoral politics it's unnecessary, or maybe even dangerous because it leads directly to the rich blackmailing us saying words to the effect of "well you need us to pay our taxes to fund your public goods."
Until we get rid of that assumption we can't really be shot of the useless fuckers.
@@chinaski2020
I'm saying that taxation doesn't constrain state spending, *resources* do, and if there's one thing we know for sure, it's that the rich generally are too thick to be much of a resource.
If you change how you talk about state spending then the problem kind of sorts itself out: the state can invest in the various goods that make life worth living and the rich can sit there stroking their own egos pretending that they did anything until they die out as a problem.
@@chinaski2020
I'm aware that there are reasons for taxation under MMT (the first 2 are more commonly mentioned, but there's a third: 1) controlling inflation, 2) acting as a source of value for money and 3) achieving policy ends). We were talking electoral strategy though, and that *has* to start with pointing out that state spending is unrelated to taxation in order to allow us to start actually investing again.
Under the current assumptions about "tax and spend" every benefit is assumed to have a cost which means intellectually, we're systematically alienated from a substantial account of what the economy is, namely our ability to generate goods - whether those goods are material goods or social goods such as schools or the NHS.
That alienation in turn is precisely the reason why every discussion of any brand of socialism starts with "well that's nice and all, but how are you going to pay for it?" Until we break that particular part of the intellectual hegemony of the rich and their neoliberal stooges, we're not going to be able to get socialism.
@@chinaski2020
Agreed. At the moment I think the political picture on the left is pretty consistent, we just need to tidy things up around the edges intellectually and clear out some legacy talk that is causing problems.
It's a good sign that capitalism may be dying out, but clearly we're not out of the woods just yet.
GET THIS MAN IN CONTACT WITH JEREMY CORBYN
Adam explains who Jeremy Corbyn is and why you want Rutgers Bergman to get in touch with him. Otherwise your comment has the meaning of a fart to me. If you can’t be bothered I can’t be.
@@elsagrace3893You have the tone of a narcissist.Who thinks that everyone else is there to serve them,But I'll answer anyways.
The ideas that Rutger are putting forth are very valuable.Ideas such as: A 4 Day week, UBS , and universal Basic income so that no one is able to fall under the poverty line.
And i would like these Ideas to be part of the labour Manifesto,and that's why I would like Jeremy Corbyn to catch wind of these proposals.
elsa Grace ...what a weird comment. “If you can’t be bothered I can’t be” - Do you think every comment is directly addressed to you? Also, maybe become a bit more read on world politics if you don’t know who Corbyn is. Don’t expect everything to be fed to you.
JC's probably got a lot of time on his hands now tbh.
"We need a war economy mindset in peacetime to combat climate change" 👏
Thanks a lot for sharing. Interseting interview. 🙂🎸
His book arrived and then you published this video. How serendipitous !!
Fight corruption, close tax havens and tax the rich.
Beautiful, thanks.
Great interview
I like the pushback on Ubi. Good critical l critique of a person who's work I do generally respect
If we are talking about a crisis of imagination then we have to include in that the limitations of UBI and 15 hour work weeks. Any system that allows for the exploitation of labour and capital accumulation is fundamentally at odds with the liberation of humanity from capitalism. And it is humanity's liberation that we should be imagining, not the best way to mitigate capitalism's exploitation and oppression.
THANK you.
Excellent presentation of the facts 🎖🎖🎖
Thinking of what we are for, I am often drawn to the idea of polarity an dualism. Being against something has an opponent. Being for some thing is to nourish an alternative, a place, a world we can move to, in a minds and everything that follows: our words, our actions. It's similar to not rising in anger to a difficult conversation, catching rather than pushing, the pendulum that swings.
Opposition by its nature creates an opponent.
Imagination is an important component of opportunity. To be able to imagine an alternative helps to recognise the small unconscious steps towards an alternative.
It's like plowing a field. To pick a stable dream on the horizon. You cant walk the line staring at the floor.
"You must observe that I am not contending against their right to invent social combinations, to propagate them, to recommend them, and to try them upon themselves, at their own expense and risk; but I do dispute their right to impose them upon us through the medium of the law, that is, by force and by public taxes."
Looking through my venetian blinds. Dusting the past off of my mind. Seeing orange everywhere. I'd go to Patagonia - but it's harder there. I'll do anything to prove I care. Fascinated by good. Destroyed by evil. What is there to believe in?
@@MrPiccolop from the upbeat track "Ready for Drowning" by The Manic Street Preachers, off their 1998 album "This is my truth tell me yours" - that includes "If you tolerate this". I have actually been to Patagonia, and it is harder there actually xP - well especially so as I was there during an economic collapse in Argentina and you had people going through the bins to find food to eat.
Benjamin Franklin did his best work after he retired. He retired 46 and went on to discover electricity and then he got involved in politics. He was able to do that because he had money, which gave him the freedom to do what he liked.
He had A LOT of money and was a natural born genius.
Tax the rich a UBI plus UBS for the planet, no military spending.
he's right about everything here
Giving people money is all well and good. But more importantly we should give them power.
Brilliant
UBS addresses specific needs of low income households and working people. UBI might feel good in your pocket, until your landlords ask for more rent and business raise prices of essential services to pocket all of your gains for themselves. Better to have those same commodities subsidised by the state.
It is obvious that like the factory workers of the xix we have to fight the people that want to continue to explore workers, the lake of popularsuport that ubi and Small workweeks is prove that they in schools media and companies have done the job well of formating the masses to their will, guys like bregman are truly a bless
Establishment's thinking, and those with the wealth and the income, is that Affordable UBS/UBI will likely leave everyday people with too much time on their hands to care about the injustices and inequality around them dragging them down leading to large scale protests like those that occurred throughout the 60s and 70s into the 80s.
Meaningful balanced education and work roles in-hand with affordable housing, utilities and transportation should be the driver for a balanced affordable after-work social life, retirement at 40 to focus on giving something back to society whilst spending more time doing things that are affordable to do.
In the 70s I worked hard and played hard. I never once felt there were injustices and inequalities around me enough to drag me down but into the 80s and 90s and into the 21st century i see these more and more.
Establishment want people to be focused on "struggle" "making ends meet" or "I'm alright mate" "I'm out for myself". The fear it seems is "What if everyday people weren't struggling, weren't focused dawn to dusk on making ends meet? What then? Maybe they'd have time on their hands to be up-in-arms at the injustices and inequality surrounding them. Maybe their numbers would be frightening? Maybe we'd be left with no choice but to give up our corrupt ways, give up the inbalanced wealth and incomes?
We have these lotteries where obscene wealth is the carrot yet there are no guaranteed winners. Lotteries with 10 guaranteed millionaire winners every week, where you only get to win once in your lifetime. Each winner then is guaranteed a UBI. Put a million in an escrow account, a retiree lives off the interest, the million is still there for the next retiree.
There are ways and means. It's the Establishment having the drive to deliver that is missing.
I'm not convinced Aaron is up to speed on where we are at.
The Power of new Working Class Institutions MUST be built from the ground up by Working Class People and transparent. UBI must be dealt out and instituted by Working Class People.
Informative conversation!
BBC “set up” a discussion with Rutger Bregman and a couple of elitist asses, Rutger was far too respectful IMO during that particular “set up”.
Looking through the comments a lot of people have a problem with UBI: Lack of imagination?
Cook the rich.
im just glad im not the only one distracted by the massive gun in the room
to get a handle on a what the jobs worthy bankers and lawyer framework means, read Bleak House and Little Dorrit.
There was no recession in the 70s? Need a source for that. Definitely interesting if true.
Surprised he can sit down after his This Week beating
Oh I forgot to say where you can get my concepts for the new system I commented on. Look for my videos on RUclips. It is my name from comments. With the capital M, inside the orange circle.
While this conversation is somewhat more than a little interesting. This guy who wrote a book about lack of imagination. Is still lacking in the very thing he writes about and talks. We are in a time and period that can for once and for all give us all globally. A real life and a true economy. With levels of technology and science. All of the people can have basic nessecities and more. Without the calculations of money being the base of an economy. Which will foster human growth in intelligence, emotions, and imagination. It would correct the awful flawed ideas of what too many assume to be real. The earth gives freely, but humans put a cost to. To live in this society that I allude to here. Would make being good care takers of the earth naturally evident. This system would vastly drop stress and worry. Instead promote imagination, hope, and excitment for a boundless new tommorow.. Where true human potential would be to out do the present and reach new levels of accomplishment. As the main focus of life would be to learn, evolve, and grow. We're dreams will be only a matter of natural efforts, happily pursued. We're family and community is of real natural value. And the words and emotions like love, pride, and value. Will have a vercerail meanings. We're companionship and relations will come not through fabrication, but develope wholly and naturally, with almost no effort.. A true and lasting pairing of what is called marriage. And so, so much more. Inequality would be a bad phase in a horrfic and insane system. That held us in bondage & servitude. And held us collectively in a tragically static semblance of fear ridden nightmare.
My new hero😍
How does UBI not just fuel inflation and make all prices rise, thereby negating its power?
Jay Fortran there will be an adjustment, nothing that can’t be overcome with simple pricing controls for community staples. luxury items might become more expensive as a result but I think overcoming poverty is slightly more a better goal then “cheap crap for everyone”.
Could the UBI acceptance in the 60s and 70s be something to do with Friedman?
"Slack in the economy with lots of people who wanted to contribute" is like a peak-liberal way to say massive reserve army of labour who were compelled to sell their time in order to survive. Lol
I prefer Job Guarantee, with a very wide description of 'job' such as described by Bill Mitchell, to UBI. More positive and motivational.
Anyhow, great interview.
Wealth...
Taxes...
_Wealth taxes_
Maybe we need a solution that risks the imagination of a new type of possibility. ™
👍🏼👍🏼
Great interview Aaron but next time move the camera facing you one meter to the left because that black stripe growing out of your head bugs the living shit out of me as a freelance cameraman/photographer lol.
This guy comes across as a liberal! Simply because it sounds like he supports capitalism!
He has said that he doesn’t want to end capitalism he wants to fix it
Bench the rich.
Check out Erik Olin Wright's related project 'real utopias'. He has free .pdfs on his site
I like the idea of UBI but wouldn't it just give the businesses the excuse to pay even lower wages? Also, what would stop landlords, energy companies etc just increase their prices wiping out the benefit, keeping the poor, poor still?
I think UBI on it's own would not work in practice, the idea requires a more socialist economy, high taxes on the rich, social housing and publicly owned energy companies etc. A large swathe of public housing would mean private landlords could not charge too much, or price themselves out, and you'd have to trust the publicly run energy companies to provide energy at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, socialist policies don't always work in a capitalist economy. But the argument is, that a capitalist economy only works for a small number of people, and so we need a huge shift in the countries thinking, back to the left. I'm not holding my breath though.
@@elboobio5920 I completely agree
UK needs improved education first, then We can talk about UBI. People often don't really know their own abilities and talents, and just waste time on chasing cheap pleasures, because they're locked in shitty life.
I like Bregman quite a bit, but let’s not pretend he understands the intricacies of most of his own proposals. This wouldn’t be the first time he has quoted studies with dubious methodological standards. The interview would be better if the questions were confined to the history of these policies, which is what he has an expertise in (and keeps returning to anyway).
Wait... does Rutger fancy you, Aaron?
Rutger, generally I love the perspective that you bring but feel that your statement about 'the 25%' and striking may miss the point'. Wider society may well not notice their 3 day absence but the wealthy that they represent certainly would.
good if 12
GOOGLE MURRAY BOOKCHIN
Thinking people's Pewdiepie
It annoys me that Aaron won't challenge Rutger when he's chatting bs...
like when?
Do you even lift bro?
How is that relevant here?
aragornthebrave humans gotta human.
"RUSSIA UKRAINE WAR"? BY PROFESSOR WALTER VEITH AND MARTIN SMITH YOU TUBE POWERFUL POWERFUL UNMISSABLE WATCH FROM SOUTH AFRICA ❤️👍🏽🙏🏾
Rutger Bregman needs to watch his back. if Mossad aren't already after him they will be soon. I admire him and hope the people who care about him keep him safe.
Aaron's arms are so lickable
What is Rutger Bregman's stance on Andrew Yang? I mean he is the candidate that is par for the course on every thing he is talking about. Advocates for UBI that will bring everyone to poverty line or higher, worked for years in distributing quality young people from top universities to startups, and also as a main pillar of his policies discusses moving away from GDP and headline unemployment as a measure of our economic health. Rutger, please stop saying no one is talking about it!! You have a major Presidential candidate in the United States discussing and running on all of these things at yang2020.com
Stanford Swanson and a year later still no one cares who Andrew Yang was or is, there are bigger issues. We do know who Rutger Bergman is though.