I definitely prefer my 4 1/2 over my 4 for precisely these reasons. It's more comfortable, more stable, and why not make a little less work for myself?
It's important to consider somebody's interest, or bias in what they're telling you. He gave a disclaimer which was appropriate. The material presented was pretty straight forward, equal, and didn't seem to obfuscate anything.
I couldn’t agree more. I bought a Woodriver plane from Rob and I’m completely satisfied. He spent a good 30 minutes in a video talking about setting up and tuning the plane properly. That’s a valuable resource.
I am well aware of your feelings on hand planes, which is why my first was a wood River 5-1/2 and i have no regrets ! And I still watched the video ! Lol
Hey rob! Love your work and the way you teach, wish I was able to take the class, but definitely think your time is more valuable working with vets, my family is a Mollitary family, mom was in the army, grandfather fought in WW2 . Anyway you’re a huge inspiration for me, I use every technique you teach, thank you. A bit of a dilemma, what’s the better choice? A skew block plane or veritas skew rabbit plane ?
I have the 5 1/2 and 4 1/2 per robs recommendation. They are great but the weight really wears me out due to physical limitation so I skipped the 4 and went straight to the 3. I haven’t had a ton of time with it but it feels very handy, similar to a 42.
I just picked up a Stanley No 5 1/2 for $15! The rosewood handle needs a repair but this will be a treat. I own a Stanley 4 1/2 but I have not bothered to fix it up.
I completely respect your opinion and agree with your reasoning on the 5 1/2 (I own one on the strength of that recommendation, thank you btw) but I feel like if you are looking for a smoothing plane to follow up the 5 1/2 jack plane you should skip the 4 and 4/12 and go to a 3. Yes it is small but not uncomfortable when held with a couple fingers extended and the small sole allows the plane to follow any undulations in the work. I find there is not enough difference between a 5 1/2 and a 4 for switching between them to be efficient.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking a use for a block plane I had not considered previously and given the smaller sole and iron on a block plane, an excellent idea to add to the arsenal.
Wide is generally good but as a counterpoint - I clicked on this because I was curious after recently using my Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 with a 55 degree high angle frog (same effect as a 10 degree back bevel) on a workpiece that mixes cherry, hard maple and wenge. I got that plane specifically for smoothing difficult grain, I keep the iron super sharp and even after backing off the iron and waxing the sole, it still had me thinking about getting a 4.
Rob's recommendation here seems to assume bench work, with both hands on the plane. In this case he is right, and the added weight is important. I feel the size of plane you choose has less to do with ones physical size, but more the kind of work the tool is employed in. In some applications I find I need to plane one-handedly, vertically, or even overhead. In such circumstances I do not heed comparisons to adolescence, or femininity, but happily reach for my No4 or dare I say it No3 and reserve the macho artillery for the bench.
I just came across this comment (Jan. 2024). Your comments are bang on. It’s personal preference and I enjoy my no. 4 for most smoothing with the thought that maybe a second iron might be nice for a scrub blade. Even though a no. 3 is frowned upon by many, I looking for one. An old Stanley is a Jewel and if not, buy a “Lie Neilson” if it’s with your budget. It will last a lifetime. Not sure why Cosman says he isn’t recommending Wood River when he sells the product. At one time in his career he was demonstrating and pushing Lie Neilson. 🤷♂️🇨🇦👍👨🦳
Thanks for the clear explanation. Am ready to buy the Wood River 5 1/2...wish you could sell it in the States. I thought I heard you might be able to do that when listening to your live stream on Saturday. If you can, let me know. Thanks!!
I had a no.4 Lee Valley but really didn't care for the norris style adjuster, so I sold it for more than I originally paid for it and purchased a Wood River 4 1/2 and absolutely love it.
I'm a relatively small framed male, I wear a medium glove and find my #4 to be just fine. I bought mine new in 1975, so it's not the worst plane Stanley ever made but the finish isn't as nice as a new Woodriver or an older Stanley.
So far I have a 4, 4½, 5, 6, 7, and a 8. I very rarely see fractional sizes in my area, especially the 5s. My No 3 is missing the tote and knob so I didn't count it in my list yet. 😥
Probably the wrong place to ask but I have a new shoulder plane and there does not seem to be any way to adjust the angle that the blade sticks through the sole so it is always proud on the right hand side looking down the sole. Do you cover that issue in any of your videos? (Which are excellent btw).
Odd question: on larger planes, why is the blade still oriented more towards the front than the back? I got to thinking about it the other day on my #7 after watching one of your videos. It seems like it would make more sense to have the same length of reference on both the front and the back of the plane, but then again, I don’t actually know anything lol
I think too much sole in front of the blade would cause you to follow a concave surface - when edge jointing for example. Because the sole would begin referencing off the dish before the blade has made contact.
Hey Rob I know you really like to use the ruler trick when sharpening your planes but I was wondering do I need to repeat the procces of polishing the tip of the back every single time I sharpen. And if so do I first work on the backbevel with a ruler or Do I first work on a regular bevel. Thanks big fan of your work.
Once you create the back bevel, after each sharpening you spend just a few seconds with the ruler to remove any burr. On a new blade, first create a back bevel on a 1k stone, then polish it on a 16k. Sharpen the bevel with micro bevels finishing with the 16k. few seconds on the back bevel, using the rule, to polish off any burr.
I don't think anyone doing a significant amount of work in wood (vs. planing off chatter) would prefer a 4 1/2, especially not the commercially made boutique versions now that are overweight. I started as most beginners will thinking that a heavier plane (wider, heavier, etc) was the answer to smooth....well, smoothing. The answer to productive smoothing is a lighter plane (but not so light that it's jarring) and proper use of the cap iron. It's more productive even removing planer chatter, but most people aren't going to plane enough removing chatter to really get an idea of why older planes and older infills didn't have boat anchor weight levels, despite the fat that they were used far more heavily than later planes. A norris 2 or a spiers open handle smoother is generally closer to a stanley 4 in weight than it is to any of the modern 4 1/2s (they're usually 3-4 pounds total). As far as room goes, put your finger aside of the blade, not under it.
What can you say about Veritas Custom #4 and Custom #4 1/2? They both have short blades which provides enough space for a hand. The only difference is blade width.
Got it. But extended width of the 4 1/2 shouldn't be a problem for an adult 90 kg man, right? At current moment I own Veritas low angle block plane, Dictum #4 (basically re-branded WoodRiver sold in Europe) and Veritas custom #5 1/2. I'm thinking of selling Dictum and changing it for one more Veritas custom plane - #4 or #4 1/2. I really like it's concept, but not quite sure which width should I choose.
By the way, the bulk of the vintage infill smoothers (at least of the more elegant types) are generally around 2 1/8" or 2 1/4" irons, smaller than a 4 1/2. One has to wonder why you'd conclude that the more popular sizes of planes were made for adolescents. People may have been shorter around 1900, but if you look at pictures of them, their hands certainly weren't smaller. I think your issue in understanding that (aside from teaching a lot of beginners who can't coordinate arms and shoulders providing momentum to a plane) is in the false assumption that you have to stuff your index finger under the blade.
When taking advice, consider the individual is giving you his/her opinion based on their experience with the tool. I happen to subscribe to the recommendations of Peter Sellers in the U.K., he has extensive experience as a professional woodworker and teacher but has no interest in selling tools, just excellent instruction. He favours the No.4 and a second modified No. 4 iron for scrubbing. If you want to “hog out”, then a Jackplane.
I have two woos river planes that are new. I am getting rust on the bottom what am i doing wrong? I am using 3 in 1 oil to keep lubricated. I live in south Ga. very high humidity
Ohioan here - also high humidity. #1 Keep your planes covered. Either use a plane sock or keep them in a drawer/cabinet. Don't leave them out in the open air. #2 I run a dehumidifier in my shop to keep the moisture in air to a reasonable level. It makes a HUGE difference. #3 Be sure to clean them after use. Wood shavings/dust carry and attract moisture. I blow mine off with an air nozzle. Then wipe them down with 3-in-1 oil.
A lighter plane has its uses for me to take off bulges before using a bigger sized plane to flatten. Otherwise I agree that a heavier plane will make better cuts... as long as everything else is equal.
Force equal mass times acceleration. For some people they can have better control of lighter planes and I am one of those people. So if I want to feel the wood I sometimes may have a lighter plane.
Respectfully, I think your audio is mixed really hot in the high frequencies. You might also benefit from a different mic or different placement of a mic.
I definitely prefer my 4 1/2 over my 4 for precisely these reasons. It's more comfortable, more stable, and why not make a little less work for myself?
Frankly, you're putting out excellent free content. If people hammer you for recommending products you sell too bad for them.
Exactly.
Agreed. The WoodRiver planes are a great product. If the RUclips dregs of society get their shorts in a wad, then just ignore them, Rob.
It's important to consider somebody's interest, or bias in what they're telling you. He gave a disclaimer which was appropriate. The material presented was pretty straight forward, equal, and didn't seem to obfuscate anything.
I couldn’t agree more. I bought a Woodriver plane from Rob and I’m completely satisfied. He spent a good 30 minutes in a video talking about setting up and tuning the plane properly. That’s a valuable resource.
Rats, you said what I said better than I was going to. Have yourself another thumbs up.
I am well aware of your feelings on hand planes, which is why my first was a wood River 5-1/2 and i have no regrets ! And I still watched the video ! Lol
very sound advice and if a person has limited funds it makes it even more so, thank you Rob
no problem, Noel, thanks for the feedback
I totally agree, I converted my no.5 to a scrub plane, and use my 4 1/2 for smoothing and my 5 1/2 for flattening, one day I will buy that no.7 or 8
Thanks. Interesting to see the differences between old and new.
Thanks Rob! The smoother is the next plane on my list! Love my Wood Rivers btw every new plane i get has been Wood River!
Hey rob! Love your work and the way you teach, wish I was able to take the class, but definitely think your time is more valuable working with vets, my family is a Mollitary family, mom was in the army, grandfather fought in WW2 .
Anyway you’re a huge inspiration for me, I use every technique you teach, thank you.
A bit of a dilemma, what’s the better choice? A skew block plane or veritas skew rabbit plane ?
I have the 5 1/2 and 4 1/2 per robs recommendation. They are great but the weight really wears me out due to physical limitation so I skipped the 4 and went straight to the 3. I haven’t had a ton of time with it but it feels very handy, similar to a 42.
always exceptions to the rule, glad you find what works for you.
I just picked up a Stanley No 5 1/2 for $15! The rosewood handle needs a repair but this will be a treat. I own a Stanley 4 1/2 but I have not bothered to fix it up.
I completely respect your opinion and agree with your reasoning on the 5 1/2 (I own one on the strength of that recommendation, thank you btw) but I feel like if you are looking for a smoothing plane to follow up the 5 1/2 jack plane you should skip the 4 and 4/12 and go to a 3. Yes it is small but not uncomfortable when held with a couple fingers extended and the small sole allows the plane to follow any undulations in the work. I find there is not enough difference between a 5 1/2 and a 4 for switching between them to be efficient.
To each his own but I have never found a need for a 3 or 4. I have on occasion reached for a block plane to solve a problem in the middle of a board.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking a use for a block plane I had not considered previously and given the smaller sole and iron on a block plane, an excellent idea to add to the arsenal.
It is really down to personal taste. I use both a 4 and 4½ and just depends on what I am doing.
Wide is generally good but as a counterpoint - I clicked on this because I was curious after recently using my Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2 with a 55 degree high angle frog (same effect as a 10 degree back bevel) on a workpiece that mixes cherry, hard maple and wenge. I got that plane specifically for smoothing difficult grain, I keep the iron super sharp and even after backing off the iron and waxing the sole, it still had me thinking about getting a 4.
Great video Rob, Thank you
Rob's recommendation here seems to assume bench work, with both hands on the plane. In this case he is right, and the added weight is important. I feel the size of plane you choose has less to do with ones physical size, but more the kind of work the tool is employed in. In some applications I find I need to plane one-handedly, vertically, or even overhead. In such circumstances I do not heed comparisons to adolescence, or femininity, but happily reach for my No4 or dare I say it No3 and reserve the macho artillery for the bench.
I just came across this comment (Jan. 2024). Your comments are bang on. It’s personal preference and I enjoy my no. 4 for most smoothing with the thought that maybe a second iron might be nice for a scrub blade. Even though a no. 3 is frowned upon by many, I looking for one. An old Stanley is a Jewel and if not, buy a “Lie Neilson” if it’s with your budget. It will last a lifetime. Not sure why Cosman says he isn’t recommending Wood River when he sells the product. At one time in his career he was demonstrating and pushing Lie Neilson. 🤷♂️🇨🇦👍👨🦳
Thanks for the clear explanation. Am ready to buy the Wood River 5 1/2...wish you could sell it in the States. I thought I heard you might be able to do that when listening to your live stream on Saturday. If you can, let me know. Thanks!!
I had a no.4 Lee Valley but really didn't care for the norris style adjuster, so I sold it for more than I originally paid for it and purchased a Wood River 4 1/2 and absolutely love it.
Bruce Stuart I hear that a lot Bruce. The Stanley adjusters were proven over a long time of professional use.
Yes, I'm a firm believer in stick with what works.
Great info! Thanks Rob.
Good information Rob, thanks for sharing it.
Great explanation as always Rob
I’ve never even seen a hand plane in our wood shop at school lol 😂 all power tools
How can I get a 4.5 in Uganda and at how much plus shipping costs?
I'm a relatively small framed male, I wear a medium glove and find my #4 to be just fine. I bought mine new in 1975, so it's not the worst plane Stanley ever made but the finish isn't as nice as a new Woodriver or an older Stanley.
As long as it works that is the main thing. I have older Stanley planes and more modern Stanley planes.
Helped a lot, Thanks!
The plane whisperer has spoken.
Thanks Rob.
And the Stanley #1 was made for illegal sweat shops?
How come this type of hand plane isn't common in uganda?
So far I have a 4, 4½, 5, 6, 7, and a 8. I very rarely see fractional sizes in my area, especially the 5s. My No 3 is missing the tote and knob so I didn't count it in my list yet. 😥
I am working on a 5 1/2.
I like to smooth out with my stanley 5.1/2
Probably the wrong place to ask but I have a new shoulder plane and there does not seem to be any way to adjust the angle that the blade sticks through the sole so it is always proud on the right hand side looking down the sole. Do you cover that issue in any of your videos? (Which are excellent btw).
with such limited lateral adjustment in a shoulder plane you sometimes have to grind the blade to match the sole.
Odd question: on larger planes, why is the blade still oriented more towards the front than the back? I got to thinking about it the other day on my #7 after watching one of your videos. It seems like it would make more sense to have the same length of reference on both the front and the back of the plane, but then again, I don’t actually know anything lol
I think too much sole in front of the blade would cause you to follow a concave surface - when edge jointing for example. Because the sole would begin referencing off the dish before the blade has made contact.
4.5 it is...thanks!
Video request: Can you do an unboxing/set up video for a 92 shoulder plane, like the ones you've done for the larger planes?
Hi Nathan, I will put it on the list however there is not much to it besides sharpening the blade.
Hey Rob I know you really like to use the ruler trick when sharpening your planes but I was wondering do I need to repeat the procces of polishing the tip of the back every single time I sharpen. And if so do I first work on the backbevel with a ruler or Do I first work on a regular bevel. Thanks big fan of your work.
Once you create the back bevel, after each sharpening you spend just a few seconds with the ruler to remove any burr. On a new blade, first create a back bevel on a 1k stone, then polish it on a 16k. Sharpen the bevel with micro bevels finishing with the 16k. few seconds on the back bevel, using the rule, to polish off any burr.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking thanks appreciate it
I don't think anyone doing a significant amount of work in wood (vs. planing off chatter) would prefer a 4 1/2, especially not the commercially made boutique versions now that are overweight.
I started as most beginners will thinking that a heavier plane (wider, heavier, etc) was the answer to smooth....well, smoothing. The answer to productive smoothing is a lighter plane (but not so light that it's jarring) and proper use of the cap iron.
It's more productive even removing planer chatter, but most people aren't going to plane enough removing chatter to really get an idea of why older planes and older infills didn't have boat anchor weight levels, despite the fat that they were used far more heavily than later planes. A norris 2 or a spiers open handle smoother is generally closer to a stanley 4 in weight than it is to any of the modern 4 1/2s (they're usually 3-4 pounds total).
As far as room goes, put your finger aside of the blade, not under it.
Welcome to have and voice your opinion David but state it more in that light, "your opinion".
Hi Rob, I don’t think you’re line of tools are available to purchase here in Ireland but can I get it in UK? Cheers
Here you go; wood workers work shop, website:
woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/collections/woodriver
Apologies to you bank balance! 😂
We ship planes everywhere but the US.
Ok this is clear. Very interesting video. this is helpful for me. Thanks
You are welcome.
What can you say about Veritas Custom #4 and Custom #4 1/2? They both have short blades which provides enough space for a hand. The only difference is blade width.
I much prefer the traditional look of a hand plane, owing that to Stanley. not interested in anything else so not fair to comment.
Got it. But extended width of the 4 1/2 shouldn't be a problem for an adult 90 kg man, right? At current moment I own Veritas low angle block plane, Dictum #4 (basically re-branded WoodRiver sold in Europe) and Veritas custom #5 1/2. I'm thinking of selling Dictum and changing it for one more Veritas custom plane - #4 or #4 1/2. I really like it's concept, but not quite sure which width should I choose.
By the way, the bulk of the vintage infill smoothers (at least of the more elegant types) are generally around 2 1/8" or 2 1/4" irons, smaller than a 4 1/2. One has to wonder why you'd conclude that the more popular sizes of planes were made for adolescents. People may have been shorter around 1900, but if you look at pictures of them, their hands certainly weren't smaller. I think your issue in understanding that (aside from teaching a lot of beginners who can't coordinate arms and shoulders providing momentum to a plane) is in the false assumption that you have to stuff your index finger under the blade.
what kind of person measures hands on old pictures to make a yt post?
When taking advice, consider the individual is giving you his/her opinion based on their experience with the tool. I happen to subscribe to the recommendations of Peter Sellers in the U.K., he has extensive experience as a professional woodworker and teacher but has no interest in selling tools, just excellent instruction. He favours the No.4 and a second modified No. 4 iron for scrubbing. If you want to “hog out”, then a Jackplane.
You must mean Paul Sellers?
Are those WRs v3?
I have two woos river planes that are new. I am getting rust on the bottom what am i doing wrong? I am using 3 in 1 oil to keep lubricated. I live in south Ga. very high humidity
Ohioan here - also high humidity. #1 Keep your planes covered. Either use a plane sock or keep them in a drawer/cabinet. Don't leave them out in the open air. #2 I run a dehumidifier in my shop to keep the moisture in air to a reasonable level. It makes a HUGE difference. #3 Be sure to clean them after use. Wood shavings/dust carry and attract moisture. I blow mine off with an air nozzle. Then wipe them down with 3-in-1 oil.
try a US equivalent of this www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-machine-wax-400g-101582
ronnie chauncey robcosman.com/collections/planes/products/wr-plane-socks
Never deal with rust again!
Like any other iron product, lack of maintenance yields rust.
A lighter plane has its uses for me to take off bulges before using a bigger sized plane to flatten. Otherwise I agree that a heavier plane will make better cuts... as long as everything else is equal.
Force equal mass times acceleration. For some people they can have better control of lighter planes and I am one of those people.
So if I want to feel the wood I sometimes may have a lighter plane.
Aren’t the Wood River planes based on the heavier Stanley Bedrock series? That would partially explain the discrepancies in mass.
They are, I dont have a Stanely 6041/2 but I do have a 604. I will weigh it and report the finding.
What has happened to your breathing? I hope you’re not sick
still kickin!
Respectfully, I think your audio is mixed really hot in the high frequencies. You might also benefit from a different mic or different placement of a mic.