Workshop Heaven - Clifton 4-1/2 vs the 'wood from hell'
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Matthew Platt from Workshop Heaven (www.workshophea...) takes on the 'wood from hell' with a back bevelled Clifton 4-1/2 bench plane (www.workshophea....
Made in Sheffield using traditional methods and materials, Clifton planes are beautifully engineered tools.
Clifton plane castings are fully annealed - a process that introduces greater stability than weathering and introduces strength to the grey iron without any loss of stiffness - critical in an object that you want to remain as true as possible. After careful machining the bodies are precision ground and checked to 1.5 thou in order to ensure that they will be well within the British Standard of 3 thou by the time they get to the customer - wherever in the world they may be.
Each Clifton cutting iron is hand forged on a spring hammer from a huge bar of Sheffield carbon steel. The forgings are hot-struck with the makers mark, precision ground and carefully quenched and tempered to optimise the edge taking and retention qualities that hand forged Sheffield steel is famous for.
Indeed! One of the beautiful things about Richard's guides is that they all dictate square to the blade. If you want a camber or a skew you can create it with reference to a fixed repeatable position.
would be really cool to know what the "wood from hell' is...
Hi Charles, Thank you very much for raising this common misconception. Backlash is the iron shifting under load because it has been retracted into position rather than advanced into position. You can no more have a plane that is prone to backlash than a stone that is prone to breaking windows.
I have set this plane up to have about a turn and a quarter of hysteresis. This protects the system as a whole from storing tension which can cause broken Y levers or stripped threads.
Thank you! They are individually made by a toolmaker called Richard Kell from Northumberland. He also makes a range of other wonderful tools.
Hi, It's the Richard Kell No.3 Mk.2 Guide, beautifully handmade by a time served toolmaker and considering the incredible workmanship they are a snip. You can get by with freehand grinding and stropping but for honing I believe that using a guide produces noticeably better results.
As said there is no benefit in setting the cap iron very tight ... when there is a back bevel or for bevel up planes, but for normal planes i think it may help with difficult wood.
Just the way I was taught, if you want to control the surface you can decide whether to start or stop (either or both) with the cutting edge on or off the timber. This is much easier to do with individual intentioned strokes.
I've been having a similar discussion with David Charlesworth and having tried an extremely close set (like 1/32nd or better) cap iron on a Quangsheng No.3 I'm now convinced that you can achieve a similar effect. My preference remains with a second back bevelled iron though, as this effectively gives a cap iron set right on the edge. Either way you are exploring the boundaries of what is possible with a handplane and seeing some astonishing results.
Thanks for this information, which makes sense, now that you explain it. I did just wonder whether pulling the plane back along the wood, prior to the next stroke, would affect the edge of the blade (either for good or ill.)
There is in fact a benefit to setting the cap iron tighter instead of back beveling the iron - the wood would not look so dull and scraped as it does with a steep back bevel.
On reflection it would have been nice to do examples of different setups and techniques. In this case I only had a small sample of timber and when this stuff tears out it comes away in half inch lumps! Perhaps we should do another video with slightly less diabolical material and look at the effects of different setups?
Many thanks, Matthew
Thanks for that. I have a number 5 Clifton - best £150 I ever spent!
The perfect planer for me!
No wonder you had a big smile on your face those shavings looked like somthing you would take off end grain. Good job. Also nice honing guide, is that a Richard Kell guide?
In theory I suspect that it would increase the wear bevel on the underside of the blade and reduce the life of the edge. In practice I doubt if the difference would be that significant.
Why no skew on your passes? Trigonometrically you would lower your blade angle to less than zero degrees, resulting in a flat, smooth and fine shaving.
+StepCorn Grumbleteats Hi, In this case I'm aiming for the opposite - a steeper angle to encourage the shaving to break right at the cutting edge, the same principle is employed in the old infill smoothers and LN's higher pitch frogs. Skew would act against the effect of the steeper pitch and is therefore undesirable in this case, however it is a valid technique for lowering the pitch of a standard plane, reducing resistance and introducing a slicing action which can indeed help with patchy tearout on milder timber.
+Workshop Heaven Ltd Trigonometrically the angle reduction from skewing is really rather small, whereas the benefit of the slicing action can be significant.
I'm not sure, I think Rob got it from a pallet so it's hardly premium grade timber, some kind of rosewood perhaps?
Mathew, when I saw this video first I was impressed by that High End (pricey) Clifton of yours and thought that it's the "plane", mean no disrespect to it or you for buying it, on the contrary, I always stated: "if you can afford it, buy the best one".
Today at this point after I am a bit more "educated" I have no doubt in my mind that a well tuned plane and sharp blade is THE RIGHT answer to any kind of wood and I don't think that the WOOD cares for your plane brand !
If you ever followed Paul Sellers, he's using a #4 or #4.5 Bailey style plane at all times, nothing fancy and even says that it's the "original" blade not an exotic one but, if you look behind his back (in the videos) you can see in the back cabinets that he has
high-end planes except, he chooses not to present them in any video demonstration.
Best.
ronin4711
Hi Ronin,
You are quite right that you can get great results with secondhand planes.
Having said that, only a very small percentage of them are as well designed and specified as a Clifton and those that are (Norris, Spiers, etc) tend to command high prices too. Good quality tools tend to hold their value much better than cheap ones.
Paul is an experienced craftsman and knows exactly what he is looking for - I'll bet he walks away from hundreds of planes for every one he buys. Not all secondhand planes are in sufficiently good condition and many of the new 'budget' planes are both absolutely dire and unsuitable for upgrading.
For new woodworkers dipping their toe in, a good condition pre 1960's Record 5-1/2 with a tungsten blade is an excellent starting point. Clifton planes tend to be something that people aspire to, or invest in once they are more committed to the craft.
Cheers,
Matthew
Hi Matthew
In a way I tend to agree with you on some of the things you mentioned.
Yes, I know the say: "it hurts only once" when you buy new, you mentioned the commitment, which is important here, if you're not, there is no point to invest in a high priced tool that you don't intend to use "forever"! Unless you have money to burn, then all options are open.
My idea was for people who want to start but not sure if they're committed, a good
"fixer-upper" is a good experience also for someone who is interested to maintain a tool after he invested time to bring it to par and latter on, buy the best that you can afford.
You're right about there is a lot of "garbage" on the used market, if you're lucky you can still find some good stuff out there.
BTW, you mentioned a Record with Tungsten blade, I never knew there are blades like that for handplanes, care to show me one if you have?
OK, now I know, it's Tungsten Steel blade, in the US if you say Tungsten it immediately associates with Carbide which would be interesting to have, specially "sharpen", you would need to use a diamond honing plate.
Thanks for the +1.
Best...
ronin4711
Hi Ronin, Thanks for your reply. Another point worth noting is that this is a smoother, hence the recommendation to start with a jack. If you are going to invest in a decent new plane, it kinda makes sense for it to be the one that you save for the final finish and let the old beater do the donkey work.
This is probably the reason why there are so many old No.4's around, jacks get used to death while smoothers and try planes tend to be best when young or very well cared for.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend older planes to beginners, over here there are some really nice woodies around with plenty left in them too. I use an old wooden coopers plane for scrubbing work, it only has about half an inch of the hand forged blade left but it will still probably see me out.
Cheers,
MP
Thanks for your reply.
Thanks for this interesting video. I notice that you are careful to lift the plane off at the end of each stroke and then place it down for the next. Why do you do this? Is it to prolong the edge on the blade, or is there some other reason?
Don't know what wood that is but I got some hard maple that's like planning a rock. Thanks for the video
That's an ugly piece of wood, but a beautiful hand plane. And I really like the honing guide. Looks like with two wheels spaced apart beside the blade it provides a very stable platform for honing.
What type of sand paper did you have attached to the glass?
+Andrew Wolfe
Hi, thanks for your question. It's adhesive backed 3M lapping film (now supplemented with 3M microfinishing film in our sharpening kits) - much more durable than wet and dry.
I like that honing jig. Who makes it?
Excellent!, can you tell me where I can find the sharpening device and what plane are you using?... thanks!
What is that tool with the wheels you use when sharpening your iron? seems alot easier than trying to guess the hoaning angle free hand
We're not sure, but the consensus seems to be that it is some kind of Indian rosewood. It is without doubt the worst timber I have ever had the misfortune to try and work with - imagine balls of cotton wool in a cast iron matrix and you're not far off.
Are the chip'breaker and nose'piece sold separately to retro'fit non'Clifton planes_
Hi David,
Clifton have subsequently developed a single piece cap iron with a hollow ground back that achieves the same ends; i.e. a fully supported iron without introducing any bending forces. They also have a slightly hardened leading edge which makes them easier to prepare. Details here: www.workshopheaven.com/hand-tools/hand-planes/plane-irons-and-accessories/clifton-plane-irons-accessories.html
How do the clifton cap irons fit with classic stanley's? I'm in the process of restoring my wife's great-grandfather's 606, and am looking for options to replace the cap iron and blade. His old blade is still immaculately sharp, but has at most one or two sharpenings before it hits the centre gap, so I want to preserve it and its cap iron, and get a modern set to keep the plane working. Leaning to Ray Iles' for the cutter, to preserve the stanley profile, but not sure if they even make cap irons.
Hi Karl,
A Ray Iles RI023S would drop straight in with no adjustments needed other than adjusting the frog position, QS or Clifton cap iron will also fit straight on with no problems. Original bedrocks are worth keeping as original as possible as their value is only going in one direction.
Workshop Heaven Ltd This ones value is all sentimental. My wife's mother's father's father's favourite plane. I'm just keeping it in trust until my son is old enough to understand and use it responsibly.
Don't get me wrong, thought long and hard about how to treat it, but having talked to my MiL, it would honour the original owner the most to set it to work again.
What type of wood is that?
It's certainly hellish.
+doobysnacks +JgHaverty I think it's some kind of Indian rosewood that came from a pallet. Horrible stuff.
I've never seen that honing guide before. Who makes it?
+UreaSmith
Hi, It's a Richard Kell No.3 Mk2, deceptively simple but very cleverly designed and beautifully engineered.
Thanks for the reply Mathew. I'm going to look into that. I've been practicing freehand but must confess I'm getting inconsistent results.
what kind of timber is that ?
what kind of wood?