Faster game progression feels good. Especially when trying to get new people into the game. Telling my friends matches can last 50 minutes is a bit of a hard sell.
Yeah and if you consider higher on average mmr games, imagine lower ranks? Matches would go ON FOREVER in low mmr MM. I hardly games passing the 1h mark. Maybe it will be harder to comeback now but overall net positive for the game.
If they want to speed up the game, in my opinion, the best way is to add more significant timed objectives to the map that actively provide lane value. This needs to be significant enough to funnel teams into teamfights at specific times and provide guaranteed macro value to the victor. It also helps lower ranked players with bad macro decision making have a clearer objective towards victory. I also would not be opposed to the jungle working more similar to HotS where on top of providing economy they all push the nearest lane after you kill them. We already carry a bag around it would be interesting to be able to deploy that bag with the jungle creeps themselves in a lane or provide some sort of value outside of just soul economy. idk if this would speed up games but it would provide an interesting incentive to grab jungle specifically just before you are planning to push.
i dont think they want to speed up the game, cooldowns are very long and often dont get very short like other mobas, and they even increased cooldowns by 6% globally not too long ago. and the way theyve changed the objectives to ramp up over game duration rather than have a strong base line indicates to me they want longer games. i think they are just playing around with lots of systems while the game is still in alpha to get a great sense of how everything can work together
@@caiwitt5456 The thing is lower ranked game goes on forever because lack of knowledge and communication while higher ranked game end instanly once 1 team get a lead and didn't make a huge blunder on the map. I know game should be balance around better player but adding an easier obj to play around will make the average game better imo.
@@whyareyoureadingthis1947since this game is designed to bring non-MOBA players into their first MOBA by having very different micro gameplay, I definitely agree that helping out new players with clear objectives should be important. After all, part of the novelty of this game is that it is a MOBA but not your standard MOBA. Making it easier to grasp the macro gameplay is essential to not create frustrating ass games in both standard and ranked. Or else, if you get stuck in low MMR, it will be ABSOLUTE HELL.
@@Lucaz99 HotS is a good example of a moba with timed map objectives and the expected HotS game length is like 20-25 minutes in higher rank games and like 25-30 in lower. So only like 25% longer on the low end since eventually doing map objectives on most maps in that game tend to end the game even if your team really doesn't know how to click on structures.
@@FullOnGritz meanwhile every time teams can’t get it done in 20-30 min, all walkers eventually go down due to stronger minions, I know the game is gonna last 45-55 minutes until one team destroys in a team fight and gets the rejuv.
Mentioning Dynamo, I think people have been finding more builds for him rather than just relying on the unstoppable refresher. Maybe not viable for competitive, but there's some interesting stuff.
The community was also drifting more towards actives (at least at the lower level) but now I believe that has sped up and their relative power is a lot stronger. Last patch it was because a few knockdowns for Vindicta and Talon were necessary when laning against them, but now it showed players how much of an in-fight swing these items can get you. For example, Crippling Headshot is pretty much a no-buy for me now because why would you wait for a $6200 item to reduce bullet resist by 24% when you can buy Withering Whip + Bullet Resist Shredder for $2500 and get the same bullet resist reduction and save weapon slots if you're planning to go weapon build? Cold front accelerates farming a ton, Decay has some pretty good stats and contributes in almost any fight, Slowing Hex is a cheap way to open up a vitality slot for people who want to keep Enduring Spirit for its life steal, etc.
Been loving lash this patch. He gets going so early especially with headhunter and then you just snowball like crazy. Some of my highest soul lash games have been this patch just by virtue of the crazy snowball effect when he comes online early and you can get a couple kills
imo the thing that made the games faster most of all was the souls change around kills. Getting kills gives a *lot* of souls now, so it feels snowbally and like taking fights is your best economy, so it ends games faster
hey, this is one of the more impactful and informative videos ive seen from you! sounds like this is gonna be a solid patch for kelvin. if the increase in shop tempo is true, kelvin and other characters that get most of their value on 3K items should hopefully have more impact.
I'm only Emissary, but I definitely saw more deathballing cause of this change, and even after the nerfs on Sundays, but no one else seemed to realize what was happening 😅
I think the soul change is a move in the right direction but it makes pubs a nightmare sometimes. The farm difference between a team that is hard grouping and one that isn't can be a bit too big when playing with an uncoordinated team of randoms.
Im all for improving the speed of the game. My biggest issue is the lack of transparency in game. Meaning its not always clear if you're doing the optimal things without reading patch notes and following CCs... maybe there should be an in game income list like the incoming damage breakdown so players can get a better sense of how much each source is giving them at the time. Personally I prefer to push and defend objectives and dont understand how players are willing to sacrifice their guardian for urn or camps.
Ideally I think the point of Urn is to get bonus souls if you're ahead, or try to even the field if you're behind and already lost guardians. Like, it's also a bad idea to go mid if the enemy team is still alive to steal.
i think the souls change took things a little too far and made the game feel less competitive and strategy-oriented, but overall, i like the direction that this shifted the game in. laning phase is longer now and feels much more engaging than it used to be, but games still end quicker on average. while the actual values needed some adjustments, the general shift in game pace seems a lot better than it used to be.
I remember a lot of people said that they love the laning phase and also when they're becoming superpower at late game. So they're trying to squeeze mid game by making laning phase longer and late game sooner. You don't waste time traveling across the map securing neutrals as they also moved them near the lane as well. So basically they intended to make you farm neutral along traveling between lanes and not jungling neutrals and then back to fight when you fed. People already complained about pure NPC farmers in this game, so that's probably why some people got upset that they must change their play style.
@@lewisbirkett4428 But the laning phase is the most engaging part of the game because everyone is not overpowered nor overwhelming yet you can still make good fights. You can also still move between lanes and help others who is struggling in a fight. During mid game is mostly a brawl fest on who's gonna be the one that can secure the urn or midboss. It's full of tug of war situation and it sometimes frustrating if no one dares to make a push and initiate a fight.
Theoretically this would buff denying a group. I have not tested this but say a 100% value of a single creep is 100. And my enemies are pushing me 2v1 and I deny a soul do I get 100? Or both thier 70+70= 140? If you get 140 that is the way to get the most souls in the game.
Love the even-headed way tou approach these patches, and your wait-and-see attitude! Too many just jump straight to "my first weekend of this patch tells me everything i need to know." Can you elaborate a bit on what a "less greedy" build looks like? The counter example of rushing a T4 item steers me a bit in the right direction, but just making. Is the idea to buy very frequently to ensure youre keeping pace with the lobby's purchases?
@BrainGeniusAcademy a less greedy build would focus on tier one and twos that upgrade to t3s and high power spike items like headhunter, mystic burst, toxic bullets, etc depending on character. Get one of those early and you can shred enemy players
I think they should've gone with some item that removes this 75% and gives you 100% but penalizes the jungle camps for the holders or something like that. It makes some kind of wave holding possible for power farmers or something.
Regardless of how they go about it, faster games is a great goal. It is a tough commitment for avg players to always need 45+ mins free to get a single game in. I personally think it's objectively better for any game's evolution to allow more 'reps' ie more games. Dota has obviously been wildly successful, but it's also been a barrier for a lot of players who have no desire or ability to play 45+ min games. With League even more so it could take 20 additional mins to complete a game from the point a losing team was realistically not going to win. Valve should continue to find ways to keep game time lower and to either emphasize the comeback and allow heavily winning teams better opportunities to close out faster.
Question: wouldnt the ideal be to have the carry person try to get 2 lanes worth of creeps after 8 minutes because its 1.5 souls for them and .75 for the other 2? Or if the 3 stay together, thats 1 lane worth of souls for each.
So the middle lanes are duo lanes, and the side lanes are solo lanes. How does the new soul-sharing mechanic work for the sidelanes? Do they split the same as for the middle lanes after 8 minutes?
I like the crazy viscous changes, now imagine if you could puddle punch while in cube, and/or punch off of it as a surface? Would be hard to code in the latter to be fair
Just self cast to punch in the 4 cardinal directions of the cube. Or possibly punch only out of the cube in the direction you are aiming but connection with a surface launches the cube.
@@kaos6684 is it a surface already?? Thats insane, and impressive if so. Not that it could be used in very many cases. Just kind of cool that his kit works together that way
Soul rebirth was such a flawed concept. they literally did what Dota did with aegis of the immortal back when it was a purchasable item. (was back in early dota 1 broken days, 3 charges of instantly respawn at the fountain when you die) which was then replaced by the respawn at your corpse effect and then removed and given only to roshan kills) Would be cool to see a Skeleton king esque hero though who has rebirth as an ability.
Yamato feels a lot stronger than she ever was after the rework and these changes. I am not playing in super high elo, in archon and oracle lobbies I dominate every single game. 12 wins in 15 games is crazy.
Im all for shorter game lengths, the 40+ average times before were hard for me to justify commiting to before since i also have a 5 month old to tend to as well 😂
Viscous seems actually broken I'm on a 20 and 1 streak with him, every single game I'm called slurs by the enemy team because the ball is so obnoxious. 😭😭😭
Hey! Could somebody suggest me some high mmr dynamo player to look at to get some inspiration on how to correctly build the hero? I'm having a lot of success in oracle level with a heavy healing/mobility build but I was wondering what pro level players are doing on the hero
@dylancrosby2451 i get a couple of 500 weapon items depending on lane, healing rite, endurance boots, extra charge, improved range, kinetic charge and healing nova in lane. Not necessarily in this order. After lane I usually get improved healing, warp stone, update boots and improved cooldown. Sometimes I delay improved cooldown to get some specific hero counter items like healbane, decay, slowing hex or knockdown. This is basically my core build, what I do next depends on how the game is going, sometimes I get some spirit items and update what I've already got, but most often I just get bullet and spirit resist and update them. I usually get 2 improvements in skill 1, then max heal. From there it depends on how the game is going. If I need dmg I'll finish maxing 1, otherwise I get one and two on the ult, then max 2 to get cd recuction. During fights I usually stay fairly in the back, try use 2 to save my teammates from enemy ults, disrupt with 1 and heal with healing nova and 3. If I notice the enemies are stacked or mispositioned I go in with warp stone and ult. In the early-mid game I roam the map keeping everyone healthy and trying to get some pickoffs, especially if i bought knockdown or slowing hex. The healing from healing nova and 3 boosted by healing booster is insane and can ez heal over 1k to the whole team in the span of 4 or 5 seconds, allowing for prolonged pushes and, if in winning position, to snowball the game easily I used to do refresher build but I noticed that in uncoordinated teams a more well rounded utility build was performing better and that my ult was better used reactively rather than proactively
Warden got 3 buff this patch, not sure how he was ruined ? +1 sprint, increased bullet velocity, and +50% spirit resist on base ult instead of unstoppable on ult T3. Even if you consider that unstoppable on ult T3 is better than 50% spirit resist on base ability: the unstoppable was only added during 2 weeks (added oct 24th, removed nov 7th), warden vas very strong before this. If you use majestic leap you don't need unstoppable when you reach T3. But in the early and mid game when you don't have majestic leap yet the extra spirit resist can come in handy
The fact that the least efficient way to farm is to be solo in a lane is just wrong, makes no sense for any MOBA. If they wanted the game to end faster through more souls, it would be easy to just give a flat increase to all soul sources.
I disagree that faster games is the main goal. While that is an outcome, one of the other big outcomes is intrateam play, and less overall solo farming. Ganking, and pushing lanes with multiple people is prioritized rather than solo jungle farming.
You can disagree but when I asked the devs if the goal was faster games, the answer I got was "Yes, that's the goal". We can speculate about other goals of course, but yeah
Hard farming jungle never really worked though. It was always occasional and felt REALLY bad. This change isn't going to make people who insist on hard farming suddenly group because they were ignoring the numbers before.
Really do not like this change. I think it encourages grouping up in 3+ man groups only ~10 mins into the game. There's nothing more infuriating than being pushed by that many people early in the game. If they want to speed up games, increase the overall amount of souls creeps/jungles give, or increase the scaling. Giving over 100% of a creep's soul total because multiple people killed it is really stupid to me. There's enough teamfighting in the game as is, encouraging it heavily after 8 mins is a bit annoying
If people are grouping as 3 it’s a waste, they get the same total souls as if they were grouping with 2 but if they were grouping as 2 the third person could be generating farm elsewhere. So you can just defend 2v3 and have your third getting an advantage elsewhere, not unlike how you’d handle 2 people grouping in lane by trying to defend 1v2 before except its easier defending 2v3 than 1v2.
@@jonathanrussell6525it is still much better souls than before nov 8th update so not that big of an opportunity cost to team net worth unfortunately. basically as soon as a team gets 1 guardian down they are sure to then take down the rest of them.
@@jonathanrussell6525i think this assumes that the other 3 solo players are soaking up the rest of the farm. I would say a 3 man with 3 solos in the other lanes is optimal
There's a lot of teamfighting that feels forced by players for no reason other than to Mid-fight/Cod deathmatch/KDA-chasing while ignoring everything else. It seems like they're just adding a reason to ARAM to see if it feels right. I don't think it will feel right but this iteration is going to go the way of the dino soon anyway. Balancing the forever midfighting and pro play is weird because now it's economical for a coordinated 3 man deathball to control the middle lanes Post-lane. The value of the Mid-temple cannot be underestimated and will be contested more than usual. Solo queue 3-squads will typically stay in one of the middle lanes for extended periods of time which still stagnates the average player's game. The devs have said they want shorter games. This accomplishes shorter games for all parties. Maybe we'll see a roaming role open up beside Dmg Carry and Hard Support that switches between their 2-man squads since the third player isn't griefing their teammates if they show up. They'll soak the wave with the 2-man and leave to soak/fight with the other 2-man. If this change feels right, then I think a roaming support or a jungle tank will be the one to make it happen. A sufficiently fast Kelvin (for example) could provide fast support to the inside and outside lanes without losing soul efficiency. I'm definitely open to liking gameplay changes even if they don't seem great at a glance.
@@thedofflin If you're in a game of economy then one should assume your solo teammates are farming. Not everyone playing the game respects this but you really can't micromanage your teammates into doing literally the only job left they have to do.
Idk im still not a fan of the change even with the reduced effect. It promotes sort of selfish carry playstyle. If a carry decides he wants the full 100% soul then feeds, it feels like it's screwing you pretty hard as your team average would be down ~15%. So youll have people flaming each other for not playing deathball or vice versa. It also buffs barriers/nerfs armors which isnt so bad but barrier was already stronger imo
Souls were shared since the beginning of the game, carries didn't cry eventhough they were sharing equally 100% value. Now they share 150% value so it's better than before.
@zilliq-qz5uw yes but if you solo instead of duo you get 100% instead of 75%(since the 150 is split). So you have carry incentive to solo(to come online 25% faster) but it hurts your teams overall souls(because waves are 100 instead of 150)
@@TheGingerjames123 Solo farming heroes farm faster and reconnect faster as a result. Someone needs to push the lane(s) opposite to the team before a teamfight otherwise they lose buildings to troops. 7, for example, would be able to take his 100% bounties by himself and reconnect when and where his team needs him: Standing between them rather than starting fights in front of them.
@@TheGingerjames123 I know this, but in your original message you said that the changes "promote a selfish solo carry playstyle" . Which it doesn't. The original patch REMOVED the solo carry playstyle completely and the 2nd patch brought it back in a milder version. The dev team is actively trying to avoid the solo carries complaining of lane soak by increasing lane sharing, yet you complain that the patch emphasizes this issue, it doesn't make sense
@zilliq-qz5uw I worded it weirdly, I guess, I meant that it seems like you have the old issue of selfish carry and the newer issue of solo is throwing. Instead of one or the other you have both problems persisting in this patch
I hate this Change. I was always pretty efficent hungry. Bit know i litterly have to force myself to perma soak lanes. And the stupiest thing is u cant get realy hold your lead anymore. If the enemy is pushed to there base the getting giga soul sharing and are back in the game for no reason. And dont forget that my team Delivered like 4 earns
I mean with the tweak a day or two ago you can still get more souls with one person in lane and one jungling than having both in lane, the gap is just narrower than it was before the big change.
@jonathanrussell6525 Isn't that good? You're incentivised to assign lanes as a team to later game carries while mid game duelists splitpush side lanes. Mid lanes are already important due to map control. Opposing teams will try to stop them from free farming and contest mid lanes leading to rotations and teamfights.
@@saintyoo It would make almost the entire game revolve around controlling those lanes, it'd be more like 2D tug-of-war than a massive city with objectives spread throughout. It would be worse than both the recent systems already used in the game.
This patch, specifically the change to how soul sharing works is a massive step in the wrong direction, sincerely hope it gets reverted ASAP and people who are shilling for it realise there are many, more healthy ways to promote faster games with more action rather than removing all negatives to death balling ASAP.
@sc065 yes, first week I placed archon 3 with 6w 1L, 2nd week archon 4 with 5w 2L, and finally most recent archon 6 with 6w 1L. I do not understand why I am so low elo.
Why is nobody talking about how they absolutely fucking ruined custom cross hairs. I have over 10k hours with the SAME cross hair across different games, and now I can't?? Fucking why????
@eirin481 literally cannot make the Crosshair WITHOUT a gap now. It feels fuckin awful and like I said, I have over 10k hours with a bright green (very small) plus sign with no gap in the middle. What a weird ass change to make for no reason at all.
@@ravenzkilla mine is practically invisible; if you're on windows, look up the custom crosshair plugin for game bar, then disable mouse click-through at the top iirc its the only good free custom crosshair solution i've found for every game that isn't dry erase marking a dot on my screen at this point lol
I have decided to take a break from the game because of this update. Even with the reduction from 200% to ~150%, I tried optimistically to enjoy DeadLock but it is way too frustrating. I could write an opinion essay about why I personally believe this was bad for the game but it is a playtest so I am sure the developers will look at player feedback and data (maybe even a heatmap). Anyway good-luck-have-fun to everyone else playing!! 🥲 A big thank you to Deathy for the educational content. ❤
i fuck with the thumbnail heavy
of course you do
:D
yo goober congrats on making it to finals bro that was fucking sick
thanks man
Bait for viscous mains
Faster game progression feels good. Especially when trying to get new people into the game. Telling my friends matches can last 50 minutes is a bit of a hard sell.
Yeah and if you consider higher on average mmr games, imagine lower ranks? Matches would go ON FOREVER in low mmr MM. I hardly games passing the 1h mark. Maybe it will be harder to comeback now but overall net positive for the game.
I think 30-35 minutes is a sweet spot. I don't like when games are 25 minutes or less. They feel very one sided
I don't like it. Many games feel more snowbally now. Either hard win or hard loss. Feels like less back and forth now, less chance for comebacks
Soul Rebirth was basically impossible to balance so I see why they removed it permanently
Klo...noa....
Nothings permanent in early access
I'm looking for them to add buy back mechanics.
I was thinking of an item but that is one time use. Once you use the rebirth its just the stats.
They can allow Rebirth to the guy who deposits the URN at hp based on which Urn deposited 😅
If they want to speed up the game, in my opinion, the best way is to add more significant timed objectives to the map that actively provide lane value. This needs to be significant enough to funnel teams into teamfights at specific times and provide guaranteed macro value to the victor. It also helps lower ranked players with bad macro decision making have a clearer objective towards victory.
I also would not be opposed to the jungle working more similar to HotS where on top of providing economy they all push the nearest lane after you kill them. We already carry a bag around it would be interesting to be able to deploy that bag with the jungle creeps themselves in a lane or provide some sort of value outside of just soul economy. idk if this would speed up games but it would provide an interesting incentive to grab jungle specifically just before you are planning to push.
i dont think they want to speed up the game, cooldowns are very long and often dont get very short like other mobas, and they even increased cooldowns by 6% globally not too long ago.
and the way theyve changed the objectives to ramp up over game duration rather than have a strong base line indicates to me they want longer games.
i think they are just playing around with lots of systems while the game is still in alpha to get a great sense of how everything can work together
@@caiwitt5456 The thing is lower ranked game goes on forever because lack of knowledge and communication while higher ranked game end instanly once 1 team get a lead and didn't make a huge blunder on the map. I know game should be balance around better player but adding an easier obj to play around will make the average game better imo.
@@whyareyoureadingthis1947since this game is designed to bring non-MOBA players into their first MOBA by having very different micro gameplay, I definitely agree that helping out new players with clear objectives should be important.
After all, part of the novelty of this game is that it is a MOBA but not your standard MOBA. Making it easier to grasp the macro gameplay is essential to not create frustrating ass games in both standard and ranked. Or else, if you get stuck in low MMR, it will be ABSOLUTE HELL.
@@Lucaz99 HotS is a good example of a moba with timed map objectives and the expected HotS game length is like 20-25 minutes in higher rank games and like 25-30 in lower. So only like 25% longer on the low end since eventually doing map objectives on most maps in that game tend to end the game even if your team really doesn't know how to click on structures.
@@FullOnGritz meanwhile every time teams can’t get it done in 20-30 min, all walkers eventually go down due to stronger minions, I know the game is gonna last 45-55 minutes until one team destroys in a team fight and gets the rejuv.
The recent patches have taken my averages from 7 minute lane 50 minute game to 13 minute lane, 40 minute game. I kind of like the change?
I agree, less individual solo farming, more 2-3 player lane pushes, shorter games, all good in my book
Yeah this is much better. Lane was starting to feel too short, and no one wants games longer than 40 mins
what kind of games are u playing where u have 50 or 40 min games avg and 13 min lanes
@@porochu8871 what games are you playing where you don't?
Your average game was 50 minutes?
Yamato with metal skin, return fire, and refresher has become an absolute menace
Silence Glyph looking mighty fine right now
@@ARClegendAlways has been. Silence is busted in any skill-using games.
@@ARClegend honestly curse might be necessary, because if you pop silence, they pop metal skin, and by the time that wears out they can ult again
Love the excalidraw presentation style
Thank you so much, I didn't really understand the soul sharing system but this helped a lot.
Great stuff as always Deathy!
now its a race for whoever can have the most refreshers!!
Team fight meta, actively turning this game into Overwatch
@@NieR-002 basically every moba is based around team fights
my games seem to be who's team can rush their 3k core midgame team fight winning items, like headhunters and rescue beams.
Mentioning Dynamo, I think people have been finding more builds for him rather than just relying on the unstoppable refresher. Maybe not viable for competitive, but there's some interesting stuff.
tbh, dynamo can absolutely slap with his 1st skill and his gun is a truck
The community was also drifting more towards actives (at least at the lower level) but now I believe that has sped up and their relative power is a lot stronger. Last patch it was because a few knockdowns for Vindicta and Talon were necessary when laning against them, but now it showed players how much of an in-fight swing these items can get you. For example, Crippling Headshot is pretty much a no-buy for me now because why would you wait for a $6200 item to reduce bullet resist by 24% when you can buy Withering Whip + Bullet Resist Shredder for $2500 and get the same bullet resist reduction and save weapon slots if you're planning to go weapon build? Cold front accelerates farming a ton, Decay has some pretty good stats and contributes in almost any fight, Slowing Hex is a cheap way to open up a vitality slot for people who want to keep Enduring Spirit for its life steal, etc.
Been loving lash this patch. He gets going so early especially with headhunter and then you just snowball like crazy. Some of my highest soul lash games have been this patch just by virtue of the crazy snowball effect when he comes online early and you can get a couple kills
imo the thing that made the games faster most of all was the souls change around kills. Getting kills gives a *lot* of souls now, so it feels snowbally and like taking fights is your best economy, so it ends games faster
Good quality vid! Nice infos and well explained!
hey, this is one of the more impactful and informative videos ive seen from you!
sounds like this is gonna be a solid patch for kelvin. if the increase in shop tempo is true, kelvin and other characters that get most of their value on 3K items should hopefully have more impact.
I'm only Emissary, but I definitely saw more deathballing cause of this change, and even after the nerfs on Sundays, but no one else seemed to realize what was happening 😅
I think the soul change is a move in the right direction but it makes pubs a nightmare sometimes. The farm difference between a team that is hard grouping and one that isn't can be a bit too big when playing with an uncoordinated team of randoms.
Has been a nightmare for me since this patch queueing with my friend.
Im all for improving the speed of the game. My biggest issue is the lack of transparency in game. Meaning its not always clear if you're doing the optimal things without reading patch notes and following CCs... maybe there should be an in game income list like the incoming damage breakdown so players can get a better sense of how much each source is giving them at the time.
Personally I prefer to push and defend objectives and dont understand how players are willing to sacrifice their guardian for urn or camps.
Post game graphics have all the descriptions you are asking, plus you can even compare with other players.
you'll understand as you play more. it'll become inuitive.
Ideally I think the point of Urn is to get bonus souls if you're ahead, or try to even the field if you're behind and already lost guardians. Like, it's also a bad idea to go mid if the enemy team is still alive to steal.
complaining about transparency in a game thats in alpha... while not reading the patch notes.... are you fr? lmfao
Whiteboard is great btw
i think the souls change took things a little too far and made the game feel less competitive and strategy-oriented, but overall, i like the direction that this shifted the game in. laning phase is longer now and feels much more engaging than it used to be, but games still end quicker on average. while the actual values needed some adjustments, the general shift in game pace seems a lot better than it used to be.
Good outcome but hate how they did it
I remember a lot of people said that they love the laning phase and also when they're becoming superpower at late game. So they're trying to squeeze mid game by making laning phase longer and late game sooner.
You don't waste time traveling across the map securing neutrals as they also moved them near the lane as well. So basically they intended to make you farm neutral along traveling between lanes and not jungling neutrals and then back to fight when you fed.
People already complained about pure NPC farmers in this game, so that's probably why some people got upset that they must change their play style.
@@n_core eh I dislike laning phase I like when it's over and the map opens up and the game really starts so I dislike squeezing midgame
@@lewisbirkett4428 But the laning phase is the most engaging part of the game because everyone is not overpowered nor overwhelming yet you can still make good fights. You can also still move between lanes and help others who is struggling in a fight.
During mid game is mostly a brawl fest on who's gonna be the one that can secure the urn or midboss. It's full of tug of war situation and it sometimes frustrating if no one dares to make a push and initiate a fight.
The Blackboard is good
Thanks for this. Was still playing with old Meta mindset and was getting rolled.
Liked the presentation, maybe in the future you could use chapters to split the sections as well :D
Theoretically this would buff denying a group. I have not tested this but say a 100% value of a single creep is 100. And my enemies are pushing me 2v1 and I deny a soul do I get 100? Or both thier 70+70= 140? If you get 140 that is the way to get the most souls in the game.
But urn also awards ability points right?
So it still has value.
"Most people that watch me are higher in ranked"
Meanwhile me down in initiate 5 crying....
Love the even-headed way tou approach these patches, and your wait-and-see attitude! Too many just jump straight to "my first weekend of this patch tells me everything i need to know." Can you elaborate a bit on what a "less greedy" build looks like? The counter example of rushing a T4 item steers me a bit in the right direction, but just making. Is the idea to buy very frequently to ensure youre keeping pace with the lobby's purchases?
@BrainGeniusAcademy a less greedy build would focus on tier one and twos that upgrade to t3s and high power spike items like headhunter, mystic burst, toxic bullets, etc depending on character. Get one of those early and you can shred enemy players
makes life as support much easier. It feels like I'm not stealing farm from hard carries.
Really well said video with insight from the devs! Recommended to my friends :)
Had the longest game so far on this patch: 1h, 500k souls on both teams and one player hitting 100k.
I think they should've gone with some item that removes this 75% and gives you 100% but penalizes the jungle camps for the holders or something like that. It makes some kind of wave holding possible for power farmers or something.
10:19 he invents a new number
Thank you for expanding my brain Mr. Deathy
Is there any difference between the inner lanes vs the outer lanes now? Can you immediately go 3 man in one of the outer lanes at minute 0?
yeah i think the blackboard stuff suits your content c: great analysis
Is that a 15 minutes short? Or it's just RUclips bug, and I got it in shorts reel?
Blackboard is great!
thank you coach!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regardless of how they go about it, faster games is a great goal. It is a tough commitment for avg players to always need 45+ mins free to get a single game in. I personally think it's objectively better for any game's evolution to allow more 'reps' ie more games. Dota has obviously been wildly successful, but it's also been a barrier for a lot of players who have no desire or ability to play 45+ min games. With League even more so it could take 20 additional mins to complete a game from the point a losing team was realistically not going to win. Valve should continue to find ways to keep game time lower and to either emphasize the comeback and allow heavily winning teams better opportunities to close out faster.
Question: wouldnt the ideal be to have the carry person try to get 2 lanes worth of creeps after 8 minutes because its 1.5 souls for them and .75 for the other 2? Or if the 3 stay together, thats 1 lane worth of souls for each.
So the middle lanes are duo lanes, and the side lanes are solo lanes.
How does the new soul-sharing mechanic work for the sidelanes? Do they split the same as for the middle lanes after 8 minutes?
the splits are the same across the lanes it doesnt change solo or duo. did you watch the video? he literally has a chart
All lanes are the same, you can hop on the zipline and decide that a side line is now a duo lane if you want to
nice editing
I like the crazy viscous changes, now imagine if you could puddle punch while in cube, and/or punch off of it as a surface? Would be hard to code in the latter to be fair
Just self cast to punch in the 4 cardinal directions of the cube. Or possibly punch only out of the cube in the direction you are aiming but connection with a surface launches the cube.
While you can't punch in cube, you can punch first and then cube since there's a delay. It also works as a surface for punch!
@@kaos6684 is it a surface already?? Thats insane, and impressive if so. Not that it could be used in very many cases. Just kind of cool that his kit works together that way
@@dasuberpanda No you can set up punch on a different surface to punch your cube he means
@@FullOnGritz cube actually does work as a surface i tested it
Im personally struggling with Yamato because everyone else seems to get online earlier
Yamato comes online early. I recommend watching some FredTheFinch if you need Yamato tips.
What Lash build do you use - considering these changes to the games tempo? I.e. reg. Greediness
Deathball Meta ❌️
Goo Ball Meta ✅️
what software you using? looks like better mspaint
excalidraw
braindead game. it was already incredibly low skill but this takes it to the next level
Soul rebirth was such a flawed concept. they literally did what Dota did with aegis of the immortal back when it was a purchasable item.
(was back in early dota 1 broken days, 3 charges of instantly respawn at the fountain when you die) which was then replaced by the respawn at your corpse effect and then removed and given only to roshan kills)
Would be cool to see a Skeleton king esque hero though who has rebirth as an ability.
Yamato feels a lot stronger than she ever was after the rework and these changes. I am not playing in super high elo, in archon and oracle lobbies I dominate every single game. 12 wins in 15 games is crazy.
She is overpower ed, enjoy while you can ! The nerf hammer is coming soon
Im all for shorter game lengths, the 40+ average times before were hard for me to justify commiting to before since i also have a 5 month old to tend to as well 😂
i’m a fan of the blackboard
Great video
when your base gets sieged everyone in it gets souls from minions ?
Trooper soul reward is AOE based so anybody close enough will profit from it
Big fan of faster games
Viscous seems actually broken I'm on a 20 and 1 streak with him, every single game I'm called slurs by the enemy team because the ball is so obnoxious. 😭😭😭
Same bro im actually 26-1 with him haha
It is broken, not to mention that his right click does half your hp.
Hey! Could somebody suggest me some high mmr dynamo player to look at to get some inspiration on how to correctly build the hero?
I'm having a lot of success in oracle level with a heavy healing/mobility build but I was wondering what pro level players are doing on the hero
What build are you running? Have you tried linepro updated?
@dylancrosby2451 i get a couple of 500 weapon items depending on lane, healing rite, endurance boots, extra charge, improved range, kinetic charge and healing nova in lane. Not necessarily in this order. After lane I usually get improved healing, warp stone, update boots and improved cooldown. Sometimes I delay improved cooldown to get some specific hero counter items like healbane, decay, slowing hex or knockdown. This is basically my core build, what I do next depends on how the game is going, sometimes I get some spirit items and update what I've already got, but most often I just get bullet and spirit resist and update them.
I usually get 2 improvements in skill 1, then max heal. From there it depends on how the game is going. If I need dmg I'll finish maxing 1, otherwise I get one and two on the ult, then max 2 to get cd recuction.
During fights I usually stay fairly in the back, try use 2 to save my teammates from enemy ults, disrupt with 1 and heal with healing nova and 3. If I notice the enemies are stacked or mispositioned I go in with warp stone and ult. In the early-mid game I roam the map keeping everyone healthy and trying to get some pickoffs, especially if i bought knockdown or slowing hex.
The healing from healing nova and 3 boosted by healing booster is insane and can ez heal over 1k to the whole team in the span of 4 or 5 seconds, allowing for prolonged pushes and, if in winning position, to snowball the game easily
I used to do refresher build but I noticed that in uncoordinated teams a more well rounded utility build was performing better and that my ult was better used reactively rather than proactively
haze and warden have been ruined in this patch
Warden got 3 buff this patch, not sure how he was ruined ? +1 sprint, increased bullet velocity, and +50% spirit resist on base ult instead of unstoppable on ult T3.
Even if you consider that unstoppable on ult T3 is better than 50% spirit resist on base ability: the unstoppable was only added during 2 weeks (added oct 24th, removed nov 7th), warden vas very strong before this.
If you use majestic leap you don't need unstoppable when you reach T3. But in the early and mid game when you don't have majestic leap yet the extra spirit resist can come in handy
The fact that the least efficient way to farm is to be solo in a lane is just wrong, makes no sense for any MOBA. If they wanted the game to end faster through more souls, it would be easy to just give a flat increase to all soul sources.
I disagree that faster games is the main goal. While that is an outcome, one of the other big outcomes is intrateam play, and less overall solo farming. Ganking, and pushing lanes with multiple people is prioritized rather than solo jungle farming.
You can disagree but when I asked the devs if the goal was faster games, the answer I got was "Yes, that's the goal". We can speculate about other goals of course, but yeah
Hard farming jungle never really worked though. It was always occasional and felt REALLY bad.
This change isn't going to make people who insist on hard farming suddenly group because they were ignoring the numbers before.
Really do not like this change. I think it encourages grouping up in 3+ man groups only ~10 mins into the game. There's nothing more infuriating than being pushed by that many people early in the game. If they want to speed up games, increase the overall amount of souls creeps/jungles give, or increase the scaling. Giving over 100% of a creep's soul total because multiple people killed it is really stupid to me. There's enough teamfighting in the game as is, encouraging it heavily after 8 mins is a bit annoying
If people are grouping as 3 it’s a waste, they get the same total souls as if they were grouping with 2 but if they were grouping as 2 the third person could be generating farm elsewhere. So you can just defend 2v3 and have your third getting an advantage elsewhere, not unlike how you’d handle 2 people grouping in lane by trying to defend 1v2 before except its easier defending 2v3 than 1v2.
@@jonathanrussell6525it is still much better souls than before nov 8th update so not that big of an opportunity cost to team net worth unfortunately. basically as soon as a team gets 1 guardian down they are sure to then take down the rest of them.
@@jonathanrussell6525i think this assumes that the other 3 solo players are soaking up the rest of the farm. I would say a 3 man with 3 solos in the other lanes is optimal
There's a lot of teamfighting that feels forced by players for no reason other than to Mid-fight/Cod deathmatch/KDA-chasing while ignoring everything else. It seems like they're just adding a reason to ARAM to see if it feels right. I don't think it will feel right but this iteration is going to go the way of the dino soon anyway.
Balancing the forever midfighting and pro play is weird because now it's economical for a coordinated 3 man deathball to control the middle lanes Post-lane. The value of the Mid-temple cannot be underestimated and will be contested more than usual.
Solo queue 3-squads will typically stay in one of the middle lanes for extended periods of time which still stagnates the average player's game.
The devs have said they want shorter games. This accomplishes shorter games for all parties.
Maybe we'll see a roaming role open up beside Dmg Carry and Hard Support that switches between their 2-man squads since the third player isn't griefing their teammates if they show up. They'll soak the wave with the 2-man and leave to soak/fight with the other 2-man. If this change feels right, then I think a roaming support or a jungle tank will be the one to make it happen. A sufficiently fast Kelvin (for example) could provide fast support to the inside and outside lanes without losing soul efficiency. I'm definitely open to liking gameplay changes even if they don't seem great at a glance.
@@thedofflin If you're in a game of economy then one should assume your solo teammates are farming. Not everyone playing the game respects this but you really can't micromanage your teammates into doing literally the only job left they have to do.
i really don't like the new patch. I liked having Objective based gameplay (urn etc) and the risk/reward of soloing in a lane.
what is this whiteboard app?
that is excalidraw :)
@@Deathyfab thanks! good stuff btw. you’re my go to for all things DL!
More GOO BALL content please 😂
split pushing is weaker now i don't like that
Idk im still not a fan of the change even with the reduced effect. It promotes sort of selfish carry playstyle. If a carry decides he wants the full 100% soul then feeds, it feels like it's screwing you pretty hard as your team average would be down ~15%. So youll have people flaming each other for not playing deathball or vice versa. It also buffs barriers/nerfs armors which isnt so bad but barrier was already stronger imo
Souls were shared since the beginning of the game, carries didn't cry eventhough they were sharing equally 100% value. Now they share 150% value so it's better than before.
@zilliq-qz5uw yes but if you solo instead of duo you get 100% instead of 75%(since the 150 is split). So you have carry incentive to solo(to come online 25% faster) but it hurts your teams overall souls(because waves are 100 instead of 150)
@@TheGingerjames123 Solo farming heroes farm faster and reconnect faster as a result. Someone needs to push the lane(s) opposite to the team before a teamfight otherwise they lose buildings to troops. 7, for example, would be able to take his 100% bounties by himself and reconnect when and where his team needs him: Standing between them rather than starting fights in front of them.
@@TheGingerjames123 I know this, but in your original message you said that the changes "promote a selfish solo carry playstyle" .
Which it doesn't. The original patch REMOVED the solo carry playstyle completely and the 2nd patch brought it back in a milder version.
The dev team is actively trying to avoid the solo carries complaining of lane soak by increasing lane sharing, yet you complain that the patch emphasizes this issue, it doesn't make sense
@zilliq-qz5uw I worded it weirdly, I guess, I meant that it seems like you have the old issue of selfish carry and the newer issue of solo is throwing. Instead of one or the other you have both problems persisting in this patch
I kinda hate how it is rn.
same it killed my enjoyment of the game and map
Fair the soul change is fucking nuts
they already reverted it. Souls spilt again
@@FloppaTheBasednah they split to more than 100%
@@FloppaTheBasedthey partially reverted it
@@FloppaTheBased deathy needs to pump these videos out faster
instead of 100% with two people, it's 75%, which is still pretty high.
RIP BOZO
SMOKIN ON THAT SOUL REBIRTH PACK
I hate this Change. I was always pretty efficent hungry. Bit know i litterly have to force myself to perma soak lanes. And the stupiest thing is u cant get realy hold your lead anymore. If the enemy is pushed to there base the getting giga soul sharing and are back in the game for no reason. And dont forget that my team Delivered like 4 earns
I mean with the tweak a day or two ago you can still get more souls with one person in lane and one jungling than having both in lane, the gap is just narrower than it was before the big change.
@jonathanrussell6525 yeah...i changed. Im a new Person. Im just running around and perma ganking with lash😂 two 20kill Games....was fun
@@dragskope1431 Lmao nice XD
Why not have double the number of minions in the duo lanes? Get rid of these confusing rules and always split souls.
Because if one person farms that lane instead of two now they’re getting gigafed.
@jonathanrussell6525 Isn't that good? You're incentivised to assign lanes as a team to later game carries while mid game duelists splitpush side lanes. Mid lanes are already important due to map control. Opposing teams will try to stop them from free farming and contest mid lanes leading to rotations and teamfights.
@@saintyoo this is where the game will eventually end up but the playerbase is honestly to bad to do that right now
@@saintyoo this guy has never played a moba
@@saintyoo It would make almost the entire game revolve around controlling those lanes, it'd be more like 2D tug-of-war than a massive city with objectives spread throughout.
It would be worse than both the recent systems already used in the game.
nice
This patch, specifically the change to how soul sharing works is a massive step in the wrong direction, sincerely hope it gets reverted ASAP and people who are shilling for it realise there are many, more healthy ways to promote faster games with more action rather than removing all negatives to death balling ASAP.
Archon 6
Win more than you lose? Archon 6. Forever.
@sc065 yes, first week I placed archon 3 with 6w 1L, 2nd week archon 4 with 5w 2L, and finally most recent archon 6 with 6w 1L. I do not understand why I am so low elo.
The urn is the perfect distraction from winning the game, great design
Where is the hero/build meta update? How will I know who to play?! Lol
good balance for overwatchers, but bad for those who want to create a build
This patch is just pur shit. All moba players know.
L patch + game fell off = LLOCK
Why is nobody talking about how they absolutely fucking ruined custom cross hairs. I have over 10k hours with the SAME cross hair across different games, and now I can't?? Fucking why????
how?
@eirin481 literally cannot make the Crosshair WITHOUT a gap now. It feels fuckin awful and like I said, I have over 10k hours with a bright green (very small) plus sign with no gap in the middle. What a weird ass change to make for no reason at all.
@@ravenzkilla mine is practically invisible; if you're on windows, look up the custom crosshair plugin for game bar, then disable mouse click-through at the top iirc
its the only good free custom crosshair solution i've found for every game that isn't dry erase marking a dot on my screen at this point lol
Then dont play....This isnt a relevant issue
first
I have decided to take a break from the game because of this update. Even with the reduction from 200% to ~150%, I tried optimistically to enjoy DeadLock but it is way too frustrating.
I could write an opinion essay about why I personally believe this was bad for the game but it is a playtest so I am sure the developers will look at player feedback and data (maybe even a heatmap).
Anyway good-luck-have-fun to everyone else playing!! 🥲
A big thank you to Deathy for the educational content. ❤