Good job MotoBob! Best reviewer, you can count on for 'true', latest news, technicaly, and expertly explained, as opposed to amateurs, not to mention AI.
Great run through. Seems logical move. Big weight save. No Desmo will mean much lower service cost for the average user with negligible/ no loss of power.
Not quite. They still enable very radical cam profiles (high lift, rapid opening and closing) at high RPM and with big valve diameters. This is the reason why they keep the system on their performance-oriented bikes and why all bikes in MotoGP have a sort of 'desmo' system, be it mechanical or pneumatic. There is just no way around it at the highest performance levels. The point here is that the timing on the new V2 is much milder due to desired engine characteristics one the one hand and due to emission laws on the other. Hence it was a rational decision to abandon desmodromic valves.
@MichaelKobler-yu6fy look at bikes from others like s1k, fireblade, R6... They use titanium valves and normal springs and if they really want to push it they use twin spring setup. But Ducati likes to keep things from the past similar to how they are keeping the v2 engine configuration when the rest of the industry is using inline twins.
@@arahyabayat1288 Sure, but you can only do so much. The V4R for example has a 16.500 rpm rev ceiling at 240.5 horsepower. That's more than 20 in excess of what the homologation bikes of Honda and BMW are making and precisely the reason for the RPM cap in the WSBK rules. Regarding the twins, that's a slightly different story. Inline twins have either a rocking couple or a primary imbalance of some sort, a 90°-V has neither. Hence there is no need for a balancer shaft and again, the 'natural' rev ceiling for the engine is higher and it is easier to keep it more responsive. That's putting things like aerodynamics aside, a V will always be smaller than an inline concept with the same displacement and amount of cylinders, which reduces drag. This was a famous advantage in the earlier days of superbike racing.
@@MichaelKobler-yu6fy idk if you can call pneumatic valves in the same category as desmo, and afaik Ducati are the only ones to use actual Desmodromic valves. Everyone else uses pneumatic valves, which replace valve springs with a gas piston to close the valves. Desmo runs off the cams so there is increased friction, not really similar at all tbh. Also: High RPM issues with valve springs are old news, solved decades ago lol. See the CBR 250rr with its 20k redline, or any of the modern 600s with 17-18k. Blows out the Panigales 16.5k. Ducati have solved the other aspects of rotating mass (mainly by the highly over square engine, and the V4 config) in litre bikes.
The reason for the more common valve train is that Desmo is redundant now that motors will have lower peak revs because valve timing overlap has to be eliminated to pass Euro5. Peaky motors will only be seen in track only bikes, street bikes will get better motors with more mid range and torque.
I'll keep praying for a Supersport V4 but this engine looks really cool. Yes, down on power from the SQ but I think this thing is going to be a hooligan of a powerplant. It brings in the top end the Testastretta is missing. The new race class between this and the R9 is going to be really fun.
@@roadsportsmedia well, suzuki has this performance in a V Twin engine that has a what now ? 20 years old design? And yes it has 100 cc more and it's heaver but it is also bomb proof in terms of reliability
Was just thinking a while ago how I'd love to see Suzuki enter the 900cc naked bike competition with a new V-twin, making at least 120 hp. Remember the good old days of the TL1000S? SV1000S? Honda's Superhawk? RC51? And when is Kawasaki ever going to build a sportsbike with a Vtwin?
@@exothermal.sprocket everybody's switching to parallel twins these days. They do have advantages, at least on the production cost side of thigs. Ducati is sticking to the V so I'll give them that :)
I own a new VStrom 650, love the engine. Would love them to lighten it and the bike by 25kg. Dream on. As for this new engine, I love it. Seems that they didn’t strive for stupid power numbers, but for an overall great flexible engine design. I hope it goes on to be a huge success.
Iremember seeing the torque curve for Mike Hailwood's 1978 TT winning Ducati and being astonished at how flat it was for a racing bike. It looks like Ducati have done it again.
Because for a street bike you don't need desmo, wet clutch și better and trellis frame yet beautiful is not competive anymore. People complain for years about maintenance for desmo valves and low intervals, Ducati listened and voila, something mainstream for everybody who wants Ducati. For purists, I am sure they will still make desmo engines but I don't know what can you do with a V4S/R on the street besides losing your license and boiling your balls.
Probably. Most motorcyclists love motorcycles. But Ducati owners love ducatis. And they’ll always be happy to chuck a disproportionate amount of cash down the drain.
Ducati's master Audi being entirely rational and getting rid of the 'complexity' of desmo. Trouble is, it was the desmo that made Ducati more than just another small 2 wheeler maker back in the 60s. So now they're just expensive bikes that happen to have Vs
it's also super interesting because since Audi took over Ducati, they actually fixed a lot of the maintenance and reliability issues with the desmo system and really improved on it. My new pani v2 is 15,000 mile service interval for the desmo service and the internals look much more robust. So think this is the issue with going uber-reliable.
But it brings new customers to the brand, case in point: me! I would never buy a bike with desmo because of the ridiculous service cost, considering all other bikes use springs and seem to do just fine. With the new direction on the Grandturismo I was finally interested in a Multistrada, which I ended up buying. I think Ducati is right and if they kept doing things just because of history they'd end up like Harley - nearly bankrupt.
@@Joes432 The service interval is a joke. The desmo service on my DVT Multi is 18k, it didn't make it to the second service before it shredded the con rod bearings. Quality, yeah right.
115/120hp is fine, provided that the overall package is much lighter than the outgoing ones. But can they offer a sub 170kg wet bike at a similar price range? A bit unlikely, I would say..
I hope we will see the new V2 at EICMA, I don't care about the new V4, I don't need 200hp on everyday roads, just the Ducati design and sound, and the V2 gives it all, 120Hp is quite enough... + i hope ducati goes back to doing tubular chassis on the Monster, the new Monster looks like any random japanese naked bike
Expensive, yes, but hard to maintain? Why do you say that, as the valve adjustment interval is much the same as the competition and there only two cylinders, not four.
@@rlsedition the guy doesn't know much about mechanics I guess. You can just do valve adjustments yourself, now it's even more easier being conventional valves. And as you said, only 2 cylinders.
Great "new stuff" video as always, thanks. Being cynical, I would suggest this is Ducati rationalising the engine range with a cheaper to manufacture engine. Ducati sales are in decline (-4.5% 2024 to date) as their range becomes hyper-expensive and traditional owners are staying with their trellis frames and desmo engines. Good one Audi. 😂
Hi,Thanks for the information, Bike features & build quality Any bike expert explain but You are one of the bike engine How is the actual work. Informative video Thanks sir, HAPPY DIWALI 🎉
i was thinking of selling my panigale v2 but now i might keep it to earn some profit. 30 hp less is a consideraable reduction in power. it will completely change the charcter of the [anigale. currently its a small and sharp track machine but looking at this new engine it seems to be sluggish cow😅😅
Won't be anything sluggish about it, I don't think you understand the difference between peak power (torque x RPM) and having that torque in the usable rev range. I bet 99% of Superquadro owners have never made use of the peak power figure.
@@sunny_sinku keep it bro, your bike is surely going to jump up in value now. I'm very confused by this move because I thought they wanted to compete in the new SuperSport category, but now they have a LESS powerful bike. I think the WSBK regulations do penalize high power as a handicap so maybe that's why. This new engine will make very similar figures to Yamaha's R9, so likely there is gonna be some benefit in this category to high torque and less power (but I personally can't see what at this point haha)
I actually ordered my V2 as soon as there were rumors out that this was the direction they were headed with the V2. Idk that we’ll even see the new bike this year… the one that came is a 2025, obviously the same as last years model. Idk, I feel like it’s just the right amount of power for the street, tbh. I want power when I want it, and use it pretty often. If I want to gap someone, I want to do it properly 😂
I think it is a good move from Ducati. We will see this engine in new versions of the Monster, V2 Multistrada, Hypermotard, Supersport etc. But there is a dilema here. What about the current expensive V2 Streetfighter? I can't see a new version sharing the same engine and power as a new Monster. They would be too close to each other in performance and intent [a naked streetbike]. I don't know what Ducati will do. Will they drop the V2 Streetfighter altogether? It will be interesting to see what they do.
The old 848 Streetfighter was a great bike. People forget about that one and bang on about MT 09 's at 117 hp KTM 890R's 121 hp etc etc but the 848 Streetfighter trumps them all from all those years ago. It had a great chassis , good suspension and handled really well.
Great vid, best I've seen yet & very informative. I'm really interested in this & looking forward to the imminent reveal. Supposedly the 120bhp sporty version is set to replace the Panigale V2 & the Supersport but with a 115bhp version there couid still be separate models I guess. Either way this is potentially more appealing to me than the Panigale or Supersport. I'm looking for a sporty road bike but felt the V2 was more than I needed & the Supersport wasn't quite enough. I guess Ducati agree.
As a current SuperSport owner I've never felt the need for more power on the road, and I ride with all sizes/types of competitive street bikes. Now, on the race track it's a different matter entirely.
@rlsedition Completely understand. Not planning on doing any track days etc so that's not an issue for me personally. I don't actually think it's underpowered tbh & it's just my personal preference that I wanted a little more if possible, but not as much as the V2.
@rlsedition Very true, but from what I've read this new bike is also going to be significantly lighter than the Supersport too. However, no evidence of that tbh just internet rumours.
I dont think these 2 versions will be it. Crossing my fingers for the return of the baby superbike R (Panigale V2 R sounds nice). Wouldnt take much to get back up to the ~155HP based on piston speeds and BMEP, and it will come from a lighter + less expensive + lower maintenance engine. I love this move from Ducati.
We'll see about a higher HP version of this engine. You're assuming it could easily go to 150 HP or so like the old Superquadro, but that engine was entirely different in design, much of which helped produce all the extra power.
The golden age of the motorcycle is past. Not because every year we pay more and get less, which we do, but because the manufacturers are abandoning everything that inhibits profits. We’re left with a “smooth, bland vanilla pudding” world where all our choices start to look the same… designs highly optimized for profitability.
Is progressive valve timing vs stepped valve timing more a matter of “character” or performance? Personally, I loved the bipolar performance of my VFR when it kicked in at 6800 rpm and ran calm below it . . . character!
There are two things at play here. Ducati only uses intake timing advance/retardation to adjust the valve overlap. This is something that you want to do gradually, for each given load and RPM, there is an optimal valve overlap to 1.) provide a smooth response of the engine and 2.) keep emissions in check. VTEC or ShiftCam work entirely different, they change to a different cam profile, which of course changes overlap as well, but also the complete opening/closing timing and usually the valve lift as well. This can't be done gradually for obvious reasons.
@ I’ve also been intrigued by Suzuki’s VVT, I believe it’s been used used in the GSX-R1000 since 2017. It seems to be an effective and relatively simple design using an all-mechanical cam-phasing system. Capitalizing on centrifugal force to alter the valve timing as engine revs increase makes sense to me. Why this was never used in Suzuki’s 90° SV an and V-Strom models remains a mystery.
@@UncleWally3 The problem is that it is purely depending on centrifugal force, which means RPM. The newer systems can be more or less freely programmed, but at least also include throttle position as an input parameter, which together with the RPM drastically influences the flow characteristics during gas exchange. Necessity and cost. An SV650 does not need more power or torque anywhere for the target audience, it is a delightful package as it is. Same for the V-Strom I suppose, although I don't particularly liked those when I rode them.
It seems like Ducati is "removing" the V2 lineup from a performance standpoint. And they will make something to compete with bikes like Aprilia RS660 or Yamaha R9 ish. With 110+ hp Middle weight "cheap" sportbikes. I can see that happening and just keep the Panigale V4 and SF V4 as flagships. Because an Monster and SF with same engine doesn't make any sense to me.
Hydraulic cam phaser on the intake cam operating with oil pressure cavity. Same stuff used on the automotive market. Pump oil into a cavity, advances cam timing. Pump oil into the opposite cavity, retards cam timing.
Looks like VW Group has begun streamlining it's production, to lower manufacturing costs. Same thing they did with the Golf engine E888, which has become an engine that exists in multiple different platforms, including their performance offerings..
The connection to VAG is a financial one, with some shared technological expertise. Ducati is responsible for their own development and designs, ultimately. Similar as Kawasaki borrowed technological expertise from the gas turbine industry for their H2 motorcycle, but it was a Kawasaki design ultimately.
For a company to take this changes they know what they are doing. You sit there and buy if you want or not. There are people who want reliable engine but Italian
Ducati needs to stop making new engines, and learn how to make a Vtwin that doesn't spit out it's con rod bearings after 29k miles. I will never buy a "new" Ducati motor again.
This is a backward step IMO. Assuming they dumped the old engines to meet emission standards 🤔 Ducati seems to be slowly turning into ugly Japanese bikes.
Answer me this - why is it that Ducati motoGP bikes are faster than the competition down the straights? It couldn't have anything to do with Desmo, could it, as all but Yamaha use the V4 engine design?
@@JohnBrown-vn2qw Not necessarily, as another brand using desmodromics would make them a copycat, never a good thing for marketing. Most likely Ducati is abandoning desmo on their "cooking" (versus performance) models to save costs for themselves and customers (maintenance).
@@JohnBrown-vn2qw But Mercedes doesn't make/sell motorcycles and their only car with this feature was the rare and expensive 300 SL of the '50s, whereas Ducati applied desmo to almost every bike they sold.
Agreed. And if you want a Vtwin to make horsepower, they have to be oversquare and have a good rev ceiling. This usually means pretty soft mid-range, which is being solved with variable valve timing. It's interesting to see all the geniuses scoffing at this new engine which they haven't heard, seen, touched, felt, or ridden. Tells me the ability for people to read specifications and connect that to realistic experience is wholly lacking.
Regardless of any stats I think we all have to celebrate any new ICE developed and released by a major manufacturer.
EV's are dying... Look at VW and the feilds of unsold EV's.. So yes, i agree with you, we should celebrate :D
Good job MotoBob! Best reviewer, you can count on for 'true', latest news, technicaly, and expertly explained, as opposed to amateurs, not to mention AI.
Great run through. Seems logical move. Big weight save. No Desmo will mean much lower service cost for the average user with negligible/ no loss of power.
My 2019 Multi twin is 160 hp at crank, crazy power, more than I need. ✊
Disappointed with the power figures of the new V2, the old V2 had more power and torque which was brutal❤
At this point desmo valves are useless. Back in the day springs couldn't keep up because we didn't have good enough alloys for springs but now we do.
Not quite. They still enable very radical cam profiles (high lift, rapid opening and closing) at high RPM and with big valve diameters. This is the reason why they keep the system on their performance-oriented bikes and why all bikes in MotoGP have a sort of 'desmo' system, be it mechanical or pneumatic. There is just no way around it at the highest performance levels.
The point here is that the timing on the new V2 is much milder due to desired engine characteristics one the one hand and due to emission laws on the other. Hence it was a rational decision to abandon desmodromic valves.
@MichaelKobler-yu6fy look at bikes from others like s1k, fireblade, R6... They use titanium valves and normal springs and if they really want to push it they use twin spring setup. But Ducati likes to keep things from the past similar to how they are keeping the v2 engine configuration when the rest of the industry is using inline twins.
@@arahyabayat1288 Sure, but you can only do so much. The V4R for example has a 16.500 rpm rev ceiling at 240.5 horsepower. That's more than 20 in excess of what the homologation bikes of Honda and BMW are making and precisely the reason for the RPM cap in the WSBK rules.
Regarding the twins, that's a slightly different story. Inline twins have either a rocking couple or a primary imbalance of some sort, a 90°-V has neither. Hence there is no need for a balancer shaft and again, the 'natural' rev ceiling for the engine is higher and it is easier to keep it more responsive. That's putting things like aerodynamics aside, a V will always be smaller than an inline concept with the same displacement and amount of cylinders, which reduces drag. This was a famous advantage in the earlier days of superbike racing.
@@arahyabayat1288 Parallel twins are cheaper to produce, but require balance shafts to quell vibration while 90-degree v-twins are naturally balanced.
@@MichaelKobler-yu6fy idk if you can call pneumatic valves in the same category as desmo, and afaik Ducati are the only ones to use actual Desmodromic valves.
Everyone else uses pneumatic valves, which replace valve springs with a gas piston to close the valves. Desmo runs off the cams so there is increased friction, not really similar at all tbh.
Also: High RPM issues with valve springs are old news, solved decades ago lol. See the CBR 250rr with its 20k redline, or any of the modern 600s with 17-18k. Blows out the Panigales 16.5k. Ducati have solved the other aspects of rotating mass (mainly by the highly over square engine, and the V4 config) in litre bikes.
Sounds great, much lighter, new clutch, new DQS2.0. Ducati is making something interesting 👍
The reason for the more common valve train is that Desmo is redundant now that motors will have lower peak revs because valve timing overlap has to be eliminated to pass Euro5.
Peaky motors will only be seen in track only bikes, street bikes will get better motors with more mid range and torque.
Finally a TL1000R ENGINE ON A DUCATI
I pray ever night before I go to bed that Suzuki would release a refreshed TL1000R… I do love riding my ‘02 model while I wait though!!
I'll keep praying for a Supersport V4 but this engine looks really cool. Yes, down on power from the SQ but I think this thing is going to be a hooligan of a powerplant. It brings in the top end the Testastretta is missing. The new race class between this and the R9 is going to be really fun.
Will you kindly explain why you need a Supersport V4 when there is a Panigale V4?
@ the supersport is a sports touring bike. Confusing, I know. Ducati’s naming, not mine
weight aside, looking at the specs of this makes me respect even more the venerable suzuki 1037 CC V twin.
Can I ask for why do you think like that? Because I love ducati but I work for Suzuki now. 😂
@@roadsportsmedia well, suzuki has this performance in a V Twin engine that has a what now ? 20 years old design? And yes it has 100 cc more and it's heaver but it is also bomb proof in terms of reliability
Was just thinking a while ago how I'd love to see Suzuki enter the 900cc naked bike competition with a new V-twin, making at least 120 hp. Remember the good old days of the TL1000S? SV1000S? Honda's Superhawk? RC51?
And when is Kawasaki ever going to build a sportsbike with a Vtwin?
@@exothermal.sprocket everybody's switching to parallel twins these days. They do have advantages, at least on the production cost side of thigs. Ducati is sticking to the V so I'll give them that :)
I own a new VStrom 650, love the engine. Would love them to lighten it and the bike by 25kg. Dream on. As for this new engine, I love it. Seems that they didn’t strive for stupid power numbers, but for an overall great flexible engine design. I hope it goes on to be a huge success.
Can't wait to see where this engine will land in, hopefully new Hypermotard ❤❤❤.
Iremember seeing the torque curve for Mike Hailwood's 1978 TT winning Ducati and being astonished at how flat it was for a racing bike. It looks like Ducati have done it again.
Can’t wait to see the models Ducati put this new engine in. Looks like a great compromise.
So trelis gone, dryclutch gone, desmo gone. Older model prices are going to explode in the used market
Single sided swingarm gone on the Panigale too
Because for a street bike you don't need desmo, wet clutch și better and trellis frame yet beautiful is not competive anymore. People complain for years about maintenance for desmo valves and low intervals, Ducati listened and voila, something mainstream for everybody who wants Ducati. For purists, I am sure they will still make desmo engines but I don't know what can you do with a V4S/R on the street besides losing your license and boiling your balls.
Hahahha nice comment bro you made laugh (honestly)@rhemyis
Probably. Most motorcyclists love motorcycles. But Ducati owners love ducatis. And they’ll always be happy to chuck a disproportionate amount of cash down the drain.
I'm pretty sure you can revert any ducati to a dry clutch
Ducati's master Audi being entirely rational and getting rid of the 'complexity' of desmo. Trouble is, it was the desmo that made Ducati more than just another small 2 wheeler maker back in the 60s. So now they're just expensive bikes that happen to have Vs
I love, and owend ducati but definitely agree.
it's also super interesting because since Audi took over Ducati, they actually fixed a lot of the maintenance and reliability issues with the desmo system and really improved on it. My new pani v2 is 15,000 mile service interval for the desmo service and the internals look much more robust. So think this is the issue with going uber-reliable.
But it brings new customers to the brand, case in point: me! I would never buy a bike with desmo because of the ridiculous service cost, considering all other bikes use springs and seem to do just fine. With the new direction on the Grandturismo I was finally interested in a Multistrada, which I ended up buying. I think Ducati is right and if they kept doing things just because of history they'd end up like Harley - nearly bankrupt.
You didn't get anything out of the desmo system so who gives a shit?
@@Joes432 The service interval is a joke. The desmo service on my DVT Multi is 18k, it didn't make it to the second service before it shredded the con rod bearings. Quality, yeah right.
Straight to the point- great vid. Would love to see your hands on test review of the GS 1300 ADV after riding it 3 weeks!
I like the v2 diavel, but ill never own a bike with timing belts
Lots of great changes, sounds like this'll be a ubiquitous and great all-around engine.
Man whichever engine they use they all heat a hell lot.
Depends on the model. The Panigale range is the worst-case scenario.
115/120hp is fine, provided that the overall package is much lighter than the outgoing ones. But can they offer a sub 170kg wet bike at a similar price range? A bit unlikely, I would say..
Great engine graphics.
I hope we will see the new V2 at EICMA, I don't care about the new V4, I don't need 200hp on everyday roads, just the Ducati design and sound, and the V2 gives it all, 120Hp is quite enough...
+ i hope ducati goes back to doing tubular chassis on the Monster, the new Monster looks like any random japanese naked bike
That's the trick box Ducati is in - make the engine lighter and simpler, but at the price of losing a unique feature (Desmo).
Offy valve system. About time. EICMA will be interesting especially if the new bikes are there as well. All good
Main thing to know, it's going to be expensive and hard to maintain so manual says bring to dealer. It's a 2 wheel ferrari.
Right! 🤣🤣🤣
Expensive, yes, but hard to maintain? Why do you say that, as the valve adjustment interval is much the same as the competition and there only two cylinders, not four.
@@rlsedition the guy doesn't know much about mechanics I guess. You can just do valve adjustments yourself, now it's even more easier being conventional valves. And as you said, only 2 cylinders.
Great "new stuff" video as always, thanks. Being cynical, I would suggest this is Ducati rationalising the engine range with a cheaper to manufacture engine. Ducati sales are in decline (-4.5% 2024 to date) as their range becomes hyper-expensive and traditional owners are staying with their trellis frames and desmo engines. Good one Audi. 😂
Hi,Thanks for the information,
Bike features & build quality
Any bike expert explain but
You are one of the bike engine
How is the actual work.
Informative video
Thanks sir,
HAPPY DIWALI 🎉
I hope it’s in the new 950 super sport. I will take one!!
Except it will be an 890 now.
@ they had me at cheaper service costs
EICMA is starting soon. Better get some sleep Bob while you can :)
i was thinking of selling my panigale v2 but now i might keep it to earn some profit. 30 hp less is a consideraable reduction in power. it will completely change the charcter of the [anigale. currently its a small and sharp track machine but looking at this new engine it seems to be sluggish cow😅😅
Won't be anything sluggish about it, I don't think you understand the difference between peak power (torque x RPM) and having that torque in the usable rev range. I bet 99% of Superquadro owners have never made use of the peak power figure.
As a selling point I would keep it, but later get the more torque engine.
@@rudigor7842it’s also roughly 10kg lighter
@@sunny_sinku keep it bro, your bike is surely going to jump up in value now.
I'm very confused by this move because I thought they wanted to compete in the new SuperSport category, but now they have a LESS powerful bike. I think the WSBK regulations do penalize high power as a handicap so maybe that's why.
This new engine will make very similar figures to Yamaha's R9, so likely there is gonna be some benefit in this category to high torque and less power (but I personally can't see what at this point haha)
I actually ordered my V2 as soon as there were rumors out that this was the direction they were headed with the V2. Idk that we’ll even see the new bike this year… the one that came is a 2025, obviously the same as last years model. Idk, I feel like it’s just the right amount of power for the street, tbh. I want power when I want it, and use it pretty often. If I want to gap someone, I want to do it properly 😂
I think it is a good move from Ducati. We will see this engine in new versions of the Monster, V2 Multistrada, Hypermotard, Supersport etc. But there is a dilema here. What about the current expensive V2 Streetfighter? I can't see a new version sharing the same engine and power as a new Monster. They would be too close to each other in performance and intent [a naked streetbike]. I don't know what Ducati will do. Will they drop the V2 Streetfighter altogether? It will be interesting to see what they do.
No counter rotating crankshaft is a shame, thought this tech from the V4 would be used more now.
Counter-rotating? You mean backward rotating.
To have a counter-rotating thing, you have to have a pair of things rotating.
Glad the desmo is gone. Service costs were one of the main downsides of Ducati ownership.
The only Italian thing I own is a Beretta, I have yet to learn if it was a good idea.
Italian made berettas are always a good idea!
Have one. Never failed
@@goldie6579 my US made one was a piece of crap unfortunately. They had a lot of quality issues while moving manufacturing to Tennessee.
Our engineers decided to rotate cylinders back a little to put them even closer to riders crotch.
Sacrifices must be made in the name of performance 😂
Save my butt
😂😂😂
"Even closer"
As opposed to what, exactly? Ducati's engines have always had the rear cylinder canted backward from straight vertical.
@@exothermal.sprocket Don't you think Ducati is rotating engine to reduce the wheelbase?
Please, MOTOBOB, please, Ducati is pronounced Doocati and not Djoocati.
848 testaretta is 135 HP
The old 848 Streetfighter was a great bike. People forget about that one and bang on about MT 09 's at 117 hp KTM 890R's 121 hp etc etc but the 848 Streetfighter trumps them all from all those years ago. It had a great chassis , good suspension and handled really well.
2007 S4R/S was 130 as well I think.
Great vid, best I've seen yet & very informative. I'm really interested in this & looking forward to the imminent reveal. Supposedly the 120bhp sporty version is set to replace the Panigale V2 & the Supersport but with a 115bhp version there couid still be separate models I guess. Either way this is potentially more appealing to me than the Panigale or Supersport. I'm looking for a sporty road bike but felt the V2 was more than I needed & the Supersport wasn't quite enough. I guess Ducati agree.
As a current SuperSport owner I've never felt the need for more power on the road, and I ride with all sizes/types of competitive street bikes. Now, on the race track it's a different matter entirely.
@rlsedition Completely understand. Not planning on doing any track days etc so that's not an issue for me personally. I don't actually think it's underpowered tbh & it's just my personal preference that I wanted a little more if possible, but not as much as the V2.
@@ragerider6283 What we don't know is if riders would feel the +10 HP difference versus the Testastretta.
@rlsedition Very true, but from what I've read this new bike is also going to be significantly lighter than the Supersport too. However, no evidence of that tbh just internet rumours.
@@ragerider6283 Well, we should know more on Nov. 5, when the 2025 bikes receiving the new engine are released.
I dont think these 2 versions will be it. Crossing my fingers for the return of the baby superbike R (Panigale V2 R sounds nice). Wouldnt take much to get back up to the ~155HP based on piston speeds and BMEP, and it will come from a lighter + less expensive + lower maintenance engine. I love this move from Ducati.
We'll see about a higher HP version of this engine. You're assuming it could easily go to 150 HP or so like the old Superquadro, but that engine was entirely different in design, much of which helped produce all the extra power.
The golden age of the motorcycle is past. Not because every year we pay more and get less, which we do, but because the manufacturers are abandoning everything that inhibits profits. We’re left with a “smooth, bland vanilla pudding” world where all our choices start to look the same… designs highly optimized for profitability.
It's to compete with the r9 and that new class of bikes.
Seems like this will be the closest thing to a decent/proper Duc since the Desmoseidici.
i love V2s
I hope this come with a new hypermotard, that bike a new update
Is progressive valve timing vs stepped valve timing more a matter of “character” or performance? Personally, I loved the bipolar performance of my VFR when it kicked in at 6800 rpm and ran calm below it . . . character!
There are two things at play here. Ducati only uses intake timing advance/retardation to adjust the valve overlap. This is something that you want to do gradually, for each given load and RPM, there is an optimal valve overlap to 1.) provide a smooth response of the engine and 2.) keep emissions in check.
VTEC or ShiftCam work entirely different, they change to a different cam profile, which of course changes overlap as well, but also the complete opening/closing timing and usually the valve lift as well. This can't be done gradually for obvious reasons.
@ I’ve also been intrigued by Suzuki’s VVT, I believe it’s been used used in the GSX-R1000 since 2017. It seems to be an effective and relatively simple design using an all-mechanical cam-phasing system. Capitalizing on centrifugal force to alter the valve timing as engine revs increase makes sense to me. Why this was never used in Suzuki’s 90° SV an and V-Strom models remains a mystery.
@@UncleWally3 The problem is that it is purely depending on centrifugal force, which means RPM. The newer systems can be more or less freely programmed, but at least also include throttle position as an input parameter, which together with the RPM drastically influences the flow characteristics during gas exchange.
Necessity and cost. An SV650 does not need more power or torque anywhere for the target audience, it is a delightful package as it is. Same for the V-Strom I suppose, although I don't particularly liked those when I rode them.
So, the next SF V2 may "only" have 120bhp? Hmmmm.
20 year later, Ducati finally built a RC51 BIKE
Man I wish I hadn't sold my panigale 959
I would also rather have them ditching the belt drive and leave the Desmo alone!
Have they addressed oil leaks? Are they still persisting to use that black gasket goo sealant instead of REAL gaskets?
That 'black goo' is used by all the big hp engine builders.
@@Conky769not true, do your research
It seems like Ducati is "removing" the V2 lineup from a performance standpoint. And they will make something to compete with bikes like Aprilia RS660 or Yamaha R9 ish. With 110+ hp Middle weight "cheap" sportbikes.
I can see that happening and just keep the Panigale V4 and SF V4 as flagships.
Because an Monster and SF with same engine doesn't make any sense to me.
I'm a ducati lover but as a 950 owner I am doubtful I'll like this one as much as the testastretta
I have MTS950 and I like mid range torque but sometimes I feel not enough high revs like real ducati's madness power.
Variable valve timing is better. Valve springs is better. Lighter overall engine is better. Lower cost manufacturing (no Desmo) is better.
Also, no belts! Finally
@@roadsportsmedia But this new motor won't have much more top end (HP).
Are both of those it’s replacing desmo?
Yes.
Your videos are always so entertaining and interesting! It's a real pleasure to watch them.♀️🌽🥦
Most people that complain dont ride there bikes so it does not matter what motor is in it they just talk alot about horse power 😂😂
Yeah, but why did they wait till I'm in my 70s to do this? LOL
Does ivt means vvt technology
Variable valve timing probably, same tech principle the bmw 1000ccm uses to maximize power delivery
Hydraulic cam phaser on the intake cam operating with oil pressure cavity. Same stuff used on the automotive market. Pump oil into a cavity, advances cam timing. Pump oil into the opposite cavity, retards cam timing.
Electric superbikes are ❤
Looks like VW Group has begun streamlining it's production, to lower manufacturing costs. Same thing they did with the Golf engine E888, which has become an engine that exists in multiple different platforms, including their performance offerings..
The connection to VAG is a financial one, with some shared technological expertise. Ducati is responsible for their own development and designs, ultimately. Similar as Kawasaki borrowed technological expertise from the gas turbine industry for their H2 motorcycle, but it was a Kawasaki design ultimately.
This is not going to be superquadro replacement. Not with the drop in HP.
Most importantly, let's see how does it feel and sound! Because Monster 937 was a huge disappointment in this aspect...
0:39 new engine v2 your ducati
❤❤❤
Ducati losing Desmo like some of us did years ago...
Am i the only one that noticed at 4:17 that there are a little too many valves??? 4 on both intake and exhaust side?
How long will it be before Daddy's (VW) financial woes impact the kids (Ducati) future?
Don’t Ducati refer to there engine range as ‘L’ twins?
Yes but it’s purely marketing. A 90 degree twin is still a V configuration.
@@gpzfan5272 now it's not even oriented on the horizontal plane (rotated up by 20°) so it's even less of an L hahaha
So they canned desmodromic valves for V-TEC????? Good shit ducati. You let audi turn you into honda.
You're confusing variable valve timing with dual cam lobes.
For a company to take this changes they know what they are doing. You sit there and buy if you want or not. There are people who want reliable engine but Italian
Stop les Vtween vive v4 !
A little late on this one, Blob.
V or L ?????
Costings clearly driving these decisions…
Testatretta/Desmo is an amazing engine. This new one is nothing special anymore- typical VW/Audi /German rubbish taking over our Ducati
4:57 They shorten 1st & 2nd gear because it lost hp & torque, don’t be fooled. 🙄🤣🤣🤣
No DESMO No Ducati 😕👎
Of course you’d speed up the video, because people love hearing the weird trashy high-pitched sound it created
I’m only interested in what Honda have new for 2025
Me too, waithing for the new CRF300 L Rally andNC750X DCT. Would love a CRF 450L Rally but not there.
Then why are you even here?
@@tonymarsh8436 because moto Bob also covers Eicma Honda reveils
@@tonymarsh8436Because we need a good laugh 😂
So much electronics 🤮
I need a new v2 diavel, the v4 too fcking ugly...
All i heard was........SLOW, CHEAP, LESS RELIABLE, BORING, OVER PRICED😂
Right! 🤣🤣🤣
I suppose you'd like people to be amused by your broken ears.
Ducati needs to stop making new engines, and learn how to make a Vtwin that doesn't spit out it's con rod bearings after 29k miles. I will never buy a "new" Ducati motor again.
Well, mine didn't spit out anything so far and neither did I hear of anything. What was the mode of failure on your bearings?
trash whats the point paying so much more money for same power as an mt09 and will be heavier than an mt09 still
This is a backward step IMO. Assuming they dumped the old engines to meet emission standards 🤔 Ducati seems to be slowly turning into ugly Japanese bikes.
about time they get rid of that desmo garbage
Answer me this - why is it that Ducati motoGP bikes are faster than the competition down the straights? It couldn't have anything to do with Desmo, could it, as all but Yamaha use the V4 engine design?
@@rlsedition if there were an advantage to using it other manufactures would. and eventually ducati is getting rid of it for a reason.
@@JohnBrown-vn2qw Not necessarily, as another brand using desmodromics would make them a copycat, never a good thing for marketing. Most likely Ducati is abandoning desmo on their "cooking" (versus performance) models to save costs for themselves and customers (maintenance).
@@rlsedition another brand using desmo would be copying ducati? ducati copied mercedes then.
@@JohnBrown-vn2qw But Mercedes doesn't make/sell motorcycles and their only car with this feature was the rare and expensive 300 SL of the '50s, whereas Ducati applied desmo to almost every bike they sold.
Lower power notwithstanding, at least it's not a cookie cutter parallel twin
This engine is L2 and not V2.
How ugly is that engine. How dull. Ducati once offered the most beautiful engine and not just aesthetically.
first
Go sck cck
@@titancodm1098😂
@@titancodm1098 hahahaha best comment from 2024
Good riddance to Desmodromic valves,,,,, ridiculous valve servicing costs
Agreed.
And if you want a Vtwin to make horsepower, they have to be oversquare and have a good rev ceiling. This usually means pretty soft mid-range, which is being solved with variable valve timing.
It's interesting to see all the geniuses scoffing at this new engine which they haven't heard, seen, touched, felt, or ridden. Tells me the ability for people to read specifications and connect that to realistic experience is wholly lacking.