Thanks to Bespoke Post for sponsoring this video! New subscribers get 20% off their first box of awesome - go to bespokepost.com/pilotphotog20 and enter code PILOTPHOTOG20 at checkout.
It is first time I hear about that. While both were proposed to Poland. Most experts say to increase number of F-35. Poland has no money or reason to buy any of those two.
Everything is OK but my god that "inventive" name. F-15 Eagle II.. WTF?? Was that the best USAF can do? What about Golden Eagle, Bold Eagle, Super Eagle, etc, etc..... I don't know what's up with Pentagon's naming schemes in the last 20 or so years.. The perfect example is the venerable Hellfire missile with the coolest name ever. And the replacement is named JAGM, freaking acronym (Joint air to ground missile).. Come on... We can't forget the F-35 Lightning II of course.. Have you ever heard anybody referring to the F-35 as the Lightning? Nope.. The pilot community has adopted a much cooler name for the F-35, calling it The Panther. I'm afraid to think about the name for the NGAD fighter that will replace the incredibly named Raptor... What can we expect? F-23 Chicken? Dung beetle? Coo-coo? WTF??
@@joshafc41 agreed. Pretty much all of them. I was mainly commenting on the Meteor because it is the one weapon system that is better than anything the US currently fields.
In the end it'll all come down to what Poland deems is more important to it's strategy. I think the Eagle II has more going for it tactically, but the Typhoon makes more sense logistically. I'm leaning a bit more towards the Typhoon, but either way Poland is going to get a really amazing fighter regardless of which they choose.
Without ALE-55/ALE-70, the ALQ-249 (EPAWSS) is not likely 'digital stealth' good enough to get an F-15E to a distance where it can make use of it's payload superiority to do the deed with the likes of GBU-53. Once you get beyond the 10/2 cutoff the APG-82 doesn't help you and the F-15EX is still a 7-10m2 RCS airframe. AGM-158B/D are nice but they are also more than a 2 million, each. Similarly, while the DASS has TRD, without the full-up Praetorian mod, the Typhoon survivability package is not sufficient. And some parts of that system are UK only, under direct control of BAe without export through Eurofighter Gmbh. This is further aggravated by the lack of a standoff ARM. However; Typhoon has the SPEAR-3 which is, essentially, GBU-53 with a turbine and a genuine 100km capability, high or low. Thus it has the ALCM->GBU standoff option beat. The U.S. AARGM/SIAW kit is looking really good and would be a good fit (heavy missile, quite large but unlike AGM-88E/F, ejector launch capable) for the F-15EX but could also be brought in on the F-35 which also provides at least some DEAD options. Air to Air, without AIM-260, the Eagle is simply not competitive against the R-37M/R-77M. With it, the Meteor is still better but only once you accept the massive range:impulse variance in F-Pole. The ramAAM can get to distances comparable to the R-37M (for an EW protected fighter target) but most of that distance is going to be at an average Mach of 2.5 with only terminals at Mach 3+. The Mach 6.7 Axehead has an average Mach of 3.8 so, short of a massive improvement in EW (MALD-J or Swedish LALD) the Meteor is always going to be last to the A-pole. AIM-260 is worse, in that it is a Mach 5 class missile but only to max burn of 20-25nm, after which it has a Mach 3 midcourse to a (realistic) 40-50nm outer pole. Only if the AIM-260 or Meteor is qualified to the F-35, with Sidekick, will Poland be genuinely competitive, air to air, with the Russian MiG-31 and Su-35. It will likely be inferior, kinematically, to the Su-57 and S-400 with the 40N6, even then. The fact that the Typhoon has a genuine IRST should also not be ignored. On a purely geo-political level, Poland should remember 1939 and the desperate orders for Hurricanes and MS-406/D.520 which went unanswered. Having a little variety in your arms suppliers is never a completely bad idea. Logistically, doesn't matter, the U.S. has one of the best maintenance programs of any arms supplier and does so as a function of initial bed down contract. You will pay for the M&R guarantee because you won't get the jet without adequate 'NATO Plan' funded capabilities assurance. This includes quarterly threat updates and 24hr maintenance call centers with an engine and airframe representative usually in-country. Europe has nothing nearly so advanced and so their lower cost maintenance packages are not the deal they look to be. The big deal is going to be getting in on the ground floor of what I believe is going to be a major reshuffling/power struggle change in the dynamic of NATO, once Ukraine is not on the table and Biden is gone. Blowing up an allies' energy delivery system is just not done and if America is politely asked to exit SHAPE there will be big changes as the EU sets up it's own army and tries to bring some unity to the defense overhead. Streamlining the multiplicity of service commands into a common air force/navy/army/expeditionary system with shared logistics suppliers and competitive bid structures/buyouts will be a monumental change for Europe, well beyond what EADS tried to do. And about damn time. As a result of this, American companies will be increasingly locked out, even from being able to sub-contract European maintenance service/parts suppliers and that could make keeping American weapons systems functional a lot more difficult for countries with a large inventory of non-European weapons systems. Ukraine has basically become a giant Reset Button on East:West relations but it is also going to be a major driver on within-West assumptions of shared defense. If this comes with a breaking of the Dollar GRC status, being America's defense customer may flatly no longer be matter of practical concern as the bottoming out of the dollar purchasing power against things like exotic materials or subsystems/component sourcing may well destroy the America Inc. defense sales business model, altogether.
@@xyz-hj6ulyou’re saying all this like the F-35 fleet isn’t going to start turning Russian airbases and air defenses into scrap from the outset of any conflict. Russian aircraft will quickly lose their air defense bubble and will quickly find themselves operating without any real support. The F-15 is more than capable of defending Polish airspace while the F-35 does its thing. The Su-57 doesn’t even have enough units to form a full squadron and the S-400 has seemingly been defeated by every western missile platform in Ukraine.
I will point out that the engines are the same in the f-15ex as it is in the F-16. So as far as Logistics go you're reducing the number of engines that you have to deal with which when you factor in everything is a huge deal. So I don't think that the Euro fighter has the logistics edge that it may look like on the surface. *Edit for spelling and grammar
@@alexalbrecht5768 First off, I don't believe Russia intends to invade NATO Europe. For much the same reason that it wouldn't invade after 1956 when Blue Danube signaled the arrival of an independent deterrent for the Brits. The Vanguard and the Triomphant both make any real threat of loss or breakout by the knackered nag of the Russian Tank Force all but laughable and I frankly question where Poland is getting the money to create the largest armed forces in Europe which they don't intend to use. Europe is in a severe economic recession which looks set to become a semi-permanent depression because our LNG is expensive as hell compared to the old Russian gaseous equivalent. And Poland is not Germany with all that industrial profit to afford a real army/navy/air force. This is important because when Germany asked for pricing data, the number which was quoted to them was 240 million, per jet. Poland's version shouldn't be any better. Which means that they are going to be lucky to maintain anything like a 20hr per mission, per month, training schedule. The F-15EX is going to be significantly cheaper to own and operate (85 million and 25,000 dollars per flight hour). The Typhoon, well... We'll just have to see. It's on the back side of a four tranche order with 'two of everything' and thus you are not going to see it get much cheaper because economies of scale just aren't there. Having said all of this, the truth is that the F-35 is going to be the one which has the natively low signature to do actual 'digital stealth' and the F-35 pilots online have even bragged about it, calling it 'the wormhole generator' as a means to justify bringing in JDAM droppers to less than 15km for release. The problem is that this is not how IAMDS work. The ADGE is dispersed. The missile TELs increasingly are not even battery-site associated with an engagement radar but depend on 4-5 surveillance systems which blink and use cooperative engagement multistatic trackfile synthesis to fire missiles which have their own radar (9M96E2, 40N6) or IR seeker (9M100) that lock on after an inertial midcourse. These systems are not going to be amenable to stealth because stealth is both aspect and band dependent on effectiveness. Certainly an F-35 is not going to be covering for any F-15EX _or_ Typhoon which tries to penetrate to JDAM/SDB distance and as soon as you go JASSM, the range of the XR (900km) is so great that you might as well skip the bus platform and just ground launch it. 85 million dollars buys 40 JASSM ground launch variants, 240 million dollars buys 120 such missiles. If you have satellites. If you have VLO reconnaissance UAS, then wasting money on an offensive strike warfare capacity, given how bloody minded the Poles are, is escalatory in a crazed fashion when the other side is the world's top nuclear state. If the Russians come West they only have three COGs: Novo Sibirsk, St. Petersburg and Moscow before they are a dysfunctional society. All of which can be reached from the Atlantic coast. Any Atlantic coast. If the Russians let us take Ukraine, their primary west-based nuclear deterrent could be struck, inside 5 minutes, from any PrSM or LRHW TEL, stripping them of their nuclear option. Their offensive was for defensive purposes. The West helping Ukraine is for offensive purposes. Not least because, if the Russians leave, the Ukrainians will commit genocide on the Lughansk and Donetsk and Crimean Russian populations. I do not trust the Europeans not to find an excuse to start another war. It is in their blood. They slit each other's throats for amounts of land we wouldn't call a county, let alone a country. And having been proven suckers before, why wouldn't we come charging in to bleed, a third time? Give them a robust surface to air defense capability but a very limited (no multi-cruise missile carrying long range strike bombers, no stealth pathfinders to target those missiles onto mobile targets) and maybe, when Biden is gone from office, we find the strength to save our populations from the consequences to an economic as much as military defeat, in Ukraine. If Europe goes down hard, economically, there will be no one to PAY FOR another Grand Alliance to face the next military threat, whomever it may come from. My bets are on the millions of MENA now overrunning Europe and setting up a criminal insurgency threat of enormous proportions. The Poles are relatively safe from that, because the Visegrad States knew better than to be colonized by the terror which is Islam. Sobieski Remembers. But it sincerely looks like they are setting themselves up to run a one-state war against Russia and, as NATO members, that must never happen. Nor even be entertained as possible.
Starfighter (F-104) though Poland was behind the Iron curtain at the time, politics plays just as big of a role as the planes capabilities. Right now the bulk of the capable equipment has been the M777, Himars, Javaline and Starlink. This isn't to deny how good other systems are but in comparison between the CV90 and M3 Bradley Ukrainian crews seem to enjoy the Bradley over the CV.
I love the F-15 as they were the first aircraft i worked around at my first base. The EX is such a major leap in abilities. If a local manufacturing center can be established it would be the ultimate option. The Typhoon is also a powerful fighter. And with a local supplier and manufacturing partners it would be a better option.
Agree. F15 shouldn't even be an option. Rather a chose between Eurofighter and Gripen, as they both are produced close by and have as good and even better features than F15EX..
@@mikkorenvall428 Like why? Poland use F-35, F-16 and FA-50. Which each cover different category. Poland literally do not need F-15, Typhon or especially Gripen.
Typhoon in theory should be a better option yet recent geopolitical turmoils showed that neither Italy nor Germany(Spain is questionable too) are reliable military partners for Poland. In such case F-15 is better option - mostly because paradoxically Poland has more common interests in Europe with the US than with France or Germany.
@@TheRezro Becuase all of those aircraft that you listed are not masters of their trades. F35 is a deep strike aircraft and would be key for potential invasions, F16 is a great small air fighters however its single engine is its downfall. FA-50 is a multiroll aircraft just like the F35 and there isnt anything the F35 cant do and do it better due to it being stealth. An F15 and Eurofighter are planes made for air domination meaning poland has an aircraft built from the ground up specifically for air combat. Not only that though it also means the integreation of new armaments, for example if poland takes the Typhoon they have access to Stormshadow a great stealth cruise missile, Meteor which is currently natos best Air to air missile which uses a scram jet engine to hit higher speeds and travel much further then almost all American missiles currently and they also have access to brimstone which is practically a javelin missile but can equip 3 for pretty much every hard point giving the aircraft about 12+ anti tank missiles maybe more. Not to mention they would have 2 very close allies being Germany and Italy who manufacter parts for typhoon making logistics insanely easy.
@@ashleygoggs5679 Most air combat in Poland would take place on relatively short ranges. F-15 and Typhon are excellent. But they are needed for larger style of combat expected from US. Poland can't really afford too many types and F-16 gradually go out of production, with F-35 being its direct replacement. FA-50 is armed trainer, intended to light F-16 and F-35 from less important tasks.
@@SeeLasSee What allies? Do you mean western EU that can't wait until going back to business as usual with ruZZia so ru can rebuild their military faster? Or did you mean USA which WILL betray Poland just as they betray UA? USA does NOT want anyone to defeat ru, because USA is affraid of the consequences. So ru knows that they WILL get sth from ANY war, USA will make sure that the victim has NO possibilitty of winning. Screw such 'allies'!!!
With the corrupt PiS Government gone, I assume Poland will rather reenvigorate its ties with EU. With the corruption and autocratic tendencies gone, EU will pour 100s of Billions into Poland. The US is strong and all, but it won't do that.
@@heinzkabofke6791 I think you fail to see how Poland sees itself in security matters; Poland trust the US to have its back, it doesn't trust the EU (Germany) to have the same commitment; especially with how Germany was hesitant towards Russia
@@delfinenteddyson9865 In the end, Poland will pay it with EU-Money as biggest beneficiary of the EU. So they should at least make sure that their welfare money stays in the EU.
the typhoon is also proven in action in saudi arabia where it has carried out thousands of strike missions, the saudis like them so much they have ordered another 64!, it is easy to work on and very reliable!
Hey, just a small comment on the Polish air force arsenal. Aside from the f16 and soon to come f35, Poland is also buying the korean FA-50, we are going to have around a dozen of them coming in the next few years. But overall you have made a great and entertaining video. Thanks.
I'm interested in seeing what Poland does with the FA-50. It might make Boeing put some teeth in the T-7 Redhawk. I love Polish programming .... well..... I love Kingdom Come : Deliverance
@@rapidsqualor5367 plane to transport potatoes, a cheap plane for everyday air policing, chasing down lost missiles or Iranian drones, not so much for combat but for supporting roles
@@stupidburp Yup, it's a replacement for soon decommisioning Su-22 and MiG-29. Practically it's for air-policing missions and advanced jet training. Poland bought K-239 (instead of HIMARS) due to delivery times, costs, lack of offsets (even for ammunition) and potentially restrictions for use (what we're seen in last months in Ukraine.), so Poland doesn't bought for now only american sorties.
Both are very good. I would choose the Typo hokn fir one reason, the fact that Poland will have spares and back-up close at hand. They will also be able to contribute towards further development of the newer models in the future.
Id say, the Euro fighters are better Option for Poland while the F15 can do pretty much everything the Euro fighter can do and typically better at it. It can't do one very important thing. And that's take off from short runways or roads I guess that only matters if poland is still worried about Russia's Ballistic and cruise missile capability. And their ability to take out their planes before they can take off that's crucial to Poland's plan to combat Russian invasion I think having the ability to have your entire Air Force. Be able to take off from improvised runways. It's very important at least in Poland situation considering the fact that they border their enemies.
@@jordanmascarenhas7974 F fifteen e x usually requires eight thousand to ten thousand feet of runway to take off The Euro fighter Typhoon typically takes 2500 to 3000 feet are runaway to take off. That's a pretty sizable amount. In my opinion, obviously, this would vary depending on how much the aircraft is carrying. But considering the fact that everybody sees the F15EX as a missile and bomb truck. I don't see it taking off on short or improvised runways anytime soon.
@joshafc41 with the limited amount of open source material that's out there for both the aircraft I think it's pretty easy to see that the F15 Has an edge over the Euro fighter in both air-to-air and air to ground. The F15 can fly higher, faster and farther than the Euro fighter Typhoon can. It has more Pylon's on the jet giving it the ability to carry more munitions per sortie It Can carry significantly more internal fuel. It has a significantly higher max, take off weight. Higher thrust to weight ratio. The Euro fighter is good at some things. It's just not better at them than it is the F15. It's more maneuverable and they can take off from improvised runways. That's all I can think of.
@@AmirShafeekIt's literally just a function of loading. Takeoff roll is proportional to weight^2. A clean light F-15A at (29000 lb) will lift off in 400 feet. The main reason the EF rated takeoff roll is shorter is mostly because it has a lower max payload.
The F-15 Eagle platform has been one of the most successful ever fielded. The F-15 Eagle II puts even that monster to shame. Longer range, better systems, greater capabilities. Merely HAVING them will cause any enemy to hesitate to commit/expose their air assets to that thing’s prowess.💯 However, if it’s my strategy, I’d pick the Typhoon. Here’s why: 1. The extra range on the EX is nice, but not really necessary. 2. Having an open source code is a HUGE advantage, operation-wise. 3. It can use a larger suite of weapons, which will aid both procurement and costs. 4. Given their other air attack assets, the Typhoon offers more upside for air superiority/defense. 5. While both are runway queens, I’d bet the Typhoon is a bit more rugged than F-15EX. Given Poland’s proximity to their biggest threat, this should be considered.🧐 Strictly my opinion, and the decision should be decided based on the strategy of defense, or attack. If they want to be more offensive, that means more American weapons. The F-15EX might be better for a more offensive approach.🤷🏾♂️
you do know that almost every european fighter built in the last 75 years has 2 engines, right? in fact, its the americans who make the most single engine fighters.
😅😅 Fighters that have yet to see combat; Eurofighter. Fighters with a 105 W to 0 L combat record; F-15E. Hmmm, let me think.... 😅😅😅 I worked on the computer systems for the conformal fuel tank modifications to the F-15E in the mid-eighties for 3 years as a consultant to McDonnell Douglas. The F-15E is a beast, twin-engined, huge range of 1,200nm thanks to the conformal fuel tanks, rapid climb rate 50,000 ft/min, 60,000 ft high ceiling, and a speed of Mach 2.5, which makes it the world's fastest fighter jet, air supremacy, all weather, 2 seater. No one has ever shot one down because our pilots are the best and the F-15 is a flying tank. The F-15EX is as tough as a fighter plane can get.
@@elessartelcontar9415, well… I wanted to be humble, but that IS a damning stat.😁 Again, I think the strategy should dictate the choice. Given the terrain of most of Poland, I’d go with a more offensive strategy. Mobility isn’t really a problem. There aren’t as many natural features to aid defense, anyway. Not like Ukraine. That means EAGLE IIs, baby!😜 The only issues to work out are logistical. That can change a weapon’s suitability, even for a mission it was designed to perform. The Typhoon removes THOSE issues (only) as it can fire a few weapons the Eagle II can’t…yet. However, the decision must be made now. The ubiquity of that plane in that region, logistics pressures are eased. In truth, both planes are popular. However, defense as the main strategy, wartime conventional wisdom holds that the more local a thing is made, the easier it is to find parts to repair said thing. This strategy invites attempts at attrition.🧐 Again, the strategy should be considered, before that choice can be well made.🤷🏾♂️
There was zero mention as to whether Poland would get the AESA radar with their typhoon. Kinda the biggest question regarding what their typhoon will come with. Moreover, maybe a mention of how a typhoon armed with Meteor has a longer stick for killing manoeuvring targets than anything else on the planet right now
I'd imagine any new Typhoons would come with modern AESA, look at the ones sold to middle Eastern countries and the newer variants recently purchased by European countries, they all have AESA's as far as I'm aware.
@@AB-gi3qy don’t think any production typhoon is flying with one yet. They have tested them. But introducing them into typhoons I don’t think I’d a thing yet. There are 3 different sensors. The UK AESA being the most sophisticated. Those have not been put into trench 3 RAF typhoons yet. Also the Germans don’t have one in their typhoons either I don’t think
The F-15EX Eagle II would integrate seamlessly with the F-35’s hive mind concept. It’s one reason why the USAF has decided to order the F-15EX. It’ll act as missile truck guided by F-35s & AWACS. While maintaining its legendary air superiority & close air support roles.
The USAF didn't "decide" to buy it, the USAF never wanted it. The Pentagon made them buy them when it was run by a former executive of Boeing (No corruption here!). As usual the public is propagandized and the military is forced to pay for welfare programs so executives holding stocks in defense companies get filthy rich.
@@davedevonlad7402All of the American aircraft are data linked this way. The F-15 II is another crony-capitalism project for the Pentagon stock holders.
F-15 never fought a decent opponent by which I mean an air superiority fighter of the same generation, so all these promo talks in documentaries about the awesomeness of F-15 are just hot air. The early F-15 variant was an utter joke compared to Tomcat which clearly showed when Eagle was unable to shoot down a Mig-25 interceptor/recon jet over Israel without first luring it into lower altitude, and this changed only with AMRAAM missiles available a lot later after Eagle introduction into service. Personally, I think that Gripen E with Meteor missiles would be a far better fit for Poland considering experiences in Ukraine where even Mig-29 were found quite formidable as long as they were not destroyed on airfields, which both Mig-29 and Gripen E can deal with by operating from improvised airfields for which most of the US jets outside things like F-18E/F Superhornet aren't build for well enough. Just consider that Poland is a nation with a similar GDP to Sweden yet on an overspending spree as if planning to follow Greece's path to insolvency... If Poland wants to do the right thing to complement the F-35, they can just buy the Gripen E and perhaps ask for a stronger variant of the licensed engine used in the Gripen E from the US, so they can keep cozy relations with the US government by making purchasing choices that allows them to be a customer for a long time instead of going bankrupt...
@@IonorRea The F-15 fought in the 91 Gulf War which everything from Fox Bats to MiG 29s. The F-15 has a more accomplished record than the F-14 and easily outlived it.
Access to all the Software,.. (no black boxes) is a huge advantage I think, also the EF2000 is a more modern design than the F-15, I wonder what Acceleration, Climbrate, Topspeed,.. a EF with the newer EJ270Engines with 120kN trust would have, also the new EW capabilities of the Tranch-5 Typhoons should be quite outstanding, think Poland should get a 'Tranch-6' EF with all that new engines and features.
The typhoon is an excellent fighter but the F-15 EX Eagle 2 is loaded with far more advantages than you could even list in this video edition. Poland would get 20000 hours of max capability .
I struggle to see many where it beats the latest versions of the Typhoon being flogged conclusively. Happy to be proven wrong, but other than sheer number of hard points I don’t think it’s the superior platform.
It really is wild that the F-15EX has such a powerful radar, but doesn't have competitive BVR missiles to take full advantage of it (yet). @@guitar7279
@@rickwalker2 F-15 EX II can carry 22 missiles, while Typhoon can carry upto 8 missiles. The F-35 can tell F-15 EX II where the dangers are with it's stealth, radar and IRST capabilities and F-15 can just launch missiles towards that direction.
It's the other way around even the F15 ex lags behind the current version of the Typhoon in many areas. The upgrades in the pipeline for the Typhoon will give it additional capabilities the F15 ex can only dream of.
The F-15 EX and the F-35 systems interchange. Imagine the Eagle II’s powerful AESA radar honing in on an air defense system from a stand off range while the F-35s sweeps in with that info and stealth to destroy it. Then the F-15s come in with their remarkable bomb carrying capability to destroy whatever the air defense was protecting. That is an integrated system.
The Eurofighter would have it just the same, after half a year. The smartest choice is always their own economy; Eurofighters best for that, and it has much better thrust/weight, a bit of stealth, way higher surface ceiling and is way more maneuverable. It would win in a heads-on BVR confrontation and in a Dogfight. The F-15 would be better for large bombing raids. So question is: Air Superiority or Bombing ?
also possibel with the eurofighter, just needs certification from us and software update as with most nato standardized system + the companies do that also as a + point for selling them to get more buyers as the integration is easy same with israeli systems and many of korean,japanese, singapore systems
If Tusk becomes new president, he could lean to Europe again and choose the Eurofighter. If the political renewal in Poland doesn't work out it will be the F-15EX.
The F-15EX is now the fastest documented combat aircraft currently flying, it also has high weapons load of any combat fighter in world from air to air to air to ground munitions and has a new helmet mounted HUD, next gen combat computer/data link, along with next gen AESA radar.
have we forgotten about the Russian Mig-25 and Mig-31 (Mach 3 capable but with a complete engine change) which are seen on satellite photos stationed in Crimea I believe.
MIG 25 and MIG 31 are Interceptors. They fly fast and high, that's it. They can't Dogfight and they are not set up for ground attack or carrying enormous payloads.
@@Grouse2275 sustained speed IS important when we are talking about BVR which the F-15EX most definitely will be fulfilling. Having the launch aircraft have as high a speed and altitude as possible gives your missile that much more range and energy. It literally adds on to the missile's performance and thus capable of out ranging enemies. This is useful today and in to the future as BVR becomes the norm especially with the F-35 being the stealth sensor system while the EX being a missile truck from far away.
Latest EF variant also has a powerful ASEA radar. Instead of pointing out capabilities on one side you should maybe compare the. This is not a "how much do you like America" contest.
You have to take into account the change in majority that just occurred. The previous government went into a rampage buying frenzy that is menacing the financial capacity of the country, for political reasons, and was anti-EU. The new majority is pro-EU and will have to restaure a reasonable budget, they will probably wish to renegociate some deals and take their time for their new orders. Poland cannot afford a mix of air superiority and air-to -ground planes, they need a multirole fighter. That suggests that the Eurofighter may be a better choice, but Poland will also hesitate to buy from Germany. I think no large order will be passed before many years, and that could actually be between F35 and Rafale rather than between F15 and Eurofighters.
Typhoon can be purchased from Italy or UK or Spain or Germany. Poles will decide which will be tge lead contractor and look for local participation offset plus participation in long term development eg Tempest.
True but the share of German-made components in the planes will remain as is (that's part of the agreement between partners) so that means Germany will have a say in Poland's Typhoons (as for example it is blocking Typhoons' sales to Saudi Arabia, although it would never block sales to a EU country of course), so politics may remain an issue, even if the new government is far more tolerant to Germany than the previous one. Under the current Eurofighter's consortium agreement, there is very little they could offer to Poland as counterparts, future Eurofighter's development currently is blocked unless Germany actually buys new planes, and that's not sure at all@@michaelmazowiecki9195
@@VoltaireVoltaire-zq4zh replacement Typhoon orders are being placed as the oldest ones end their service. I suspect further upgrades will take place as Tempest 5/6gen development costs become prohibitive. As for Germany's role German manufacturing is looking for firm orders. We are getting rid of the lunatic populist government of the past 8 years here in Poland and fully committing to both EU and Nato. Buying European makes both economic and political sense. The question is Typhoon or Rafale or Gripen.
yes it is, i really like the f15 but i'm biased as well being a brit and having worked on typhoon! they are both great aircraft and the polish government are on a win win whichever they choose
The smartest choice is always their own economy; Eurofighters best for that, and it has much better thrust/weight, a bit of stealth, way higher surface ceiling and is way more maneuverable. It would win in a heads-on BVR confrontation and in a Dogfight. The F-15 would be better for large bombing raids. So question is: Air Superiority or Bombing ?
@@lantinian The F15-EX is well behind completion for the murica AirForce, so it would be decades before they'll be exporting it to other countries. All they would realistically get is F15 Eagle.
I gotta go for the F-15EX, it's not only more compatible with the F-16s, F-35s, and AH-64s already bought by Poland, but it has a significantly longer service life....
@dne9394; Sir, that's what the F-35s were made for, to QB while using other assets to complete an extremely effective "kill chain". That been said, the F-35s are in the block 4 improvement meaning that like any new Weapons Platform it'll continue to get better and more effective as time passes by. Take care Sir.
That is a factor that seems a valuable insight. If the typhoon can help lead Poland into getting into getting into one of the joint 6 gen programs, then that would be helpful for their defense in the long term.
I look for: 1.Speed 2.Electronics 3.smallness 4.upgrade electronics 5.Start in every weather Stealth are to expensive to build in every time a new plane are build..😊
The F-15 has the radar cross section of a barn. The Eurofighter is a great air tonair and air to ground platform. The F-15X is basically a truck. It can complement other platforms such as the F-35, but I doubt its survivability in a modern conflict. The Eurofighter can survive much better in modern air war, with towed decoys and a good array of electronic countermeasures. Plus, it has been designed for the scenario, the polish wants to use it: air dominance against russian aircraft.
Poland bought FA 50 and F 35 in the last few years. Air Force does not want to introduce another type in logistics and will stay with 3 types after the withdrawal of SU's and MIG's
well the FA-50PL covers the Training and low cost Air Patrol, F-35 covers NATO and first strike, the 36 F-16 and 12 F-16D are a stopgap, SU-22 small bomber and Mig-29 multirole fighters, all 3 are in the end going out. 32 F-15EX cover more then the Typhoon and in the long run having 32 F-15EX heavy bomber/fighter is good thing as Poland feet will be 10 tactical squadrons 2 F-35, 3 FA-50, 2 F-15EX and 3 F-16 that will replaced with 3 KF-21PL
@@1BigBen Bielik and Orlik are covering training. FA 50PL will be light multi roll fighter with AESA radar. For F16 modernization is planned and its not a stopgap .If Poland buys more equipment, it will probably be another 16 F35s. And don't forget that 700 MLRSs are something for Poland that should perform tactically similarly to the A10 or SU 25
@@julianizydorczak5258 Bielik didn't go anywhere and Orlik is getting old, the FA-50 is the standard trainer for must modern fighter and reason behind 16 of them will be used as trainers for the F35, now PZL Mielec F-16PLV is still a big a question mark and unlike, but current Polish F-16 are Block 52 aircraft 2006-9 and could be upgraded with some part from PZL Mielec, KF-21PL would offered more than F-16PLV for the future for Poland. there are really just 3 tank killing CAS jets in the world SU 17/22/24 etc old and kept in the air with used parts only, it is EOL Panavia Tornado is being retired in 2024/25 ether going to Ukraine or be scraped A-10 staying in service, but will not be sold that is why Poland is buying 96 AH-64E Apache attack helicopters even with Rheinmetall F-35 production 32 +16 or +32 will take to much time even with PZL Mielec more F-16 will also take to much time Boeing says 3 to 4 years to delivered all 32 F-15EX there are 48 used Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1 coming to the used market it would be fasted way to get 2 new squadrons in training and to the air new Eurofighter Typhoon could take 4 to 10 year to delivered all 32 jet 2026 Poland could sign a deal for KF-21 with jet start coming between 2027-30 its not a easy choose today feet 36 F-16c, 23 Mig-29 and iffy 32 SU-22
If they want a point interceptor that can be used off highways and small fields dispersed the the Eurofighter is the choice, if they want air superiority and are not worried about their airfields id say the F15EX
@@Schupfnudel111maybe for dogfighting. The radar, speed, and payload capacity on the eagle make it the logical choice. That and the absurdly long airframe lifespan.
@@alexalbrecht5768The Typhoons Radar 2, BVR, ECM and electronic attack capabilities are all superior to what the F15 has to offer. Not to mention sustained supersonic performance.
@@joshafc41 The AN/APG-82(V) 1 uses proven components and is designed to make maintenance a non issue. What real advantage can the Captor E offer? The new fully digital EPAWSS system offers comprehensive ECM capabilities to allow the F-15 to dominate the skies. The marginal super cruise of the Eurofighter is still inferior to the ability of the F-15 to reach its target faster when the need arises. Time is of the essence when it comes to intercepting and destroying enemy aircraft. And as I mentioned before the airframe lifespan difference is immense. The F-15 is designed for a service life of 20,000 hours. That is more than 3 times the 6,000 hours of the Eurofighter. Why should Poland waste their money on a maintenance intensive fighter that will be out of service after a fraction of the operating time?
Ha! The mythical performance of the F-15! The Mach 2.5 speed it’s probably ever reached a handful of times with no payload! And how long can it sustain that speed? 5 minutes? There’s no way it covers long distances faster without supercruise. And that second magical number: the 20,000h airframe! That just says the airframe should survive a prolonged use. It doesn’t tell you how much it costs for all the rest to be in flying condition. Apparently the official number is $29,000 an hour. But until it is actually used, it’s just a guess. And who knows if it’ll be easy to upgrade. The airframe life on his own doesn’t mean that much…
The F-15 is the logical choice and the available payload/ordnance make it the smarter choice. I’m a big fan of the Typhoon, but the decision isn’t a tough one when you’re thinking about tomorrow’s war and fighting along side the F-35. I really like this video, Tog…it’s fantastic. I see you’re very close to 100K, congratulations! 🥳
No doubt the F-15 EX is a fantastic fighter aircraft. But the technology transfer/source code from Euro fighter is undeniable much better offer. So I will go with the Typhoon Euro Fighter.❤
"There's been a huge time gap in delivery acquisition of the F-15ex , From what I read the US is a year behind schedule in acquiring between 1-4 fighters.
Speaking of the F-15EX… did you notice that EX3, or F-15EX 20-0003 (or 20-003, not sure which), actually doesn’t have CFTs? it is also the first one to be built in final operational configuration, so that is probably a big part of it.. it flew its first flight I think…. last week? There are, I think, 6 EXs scheduled to be delivered between the last quarter of FY2023 and the first quarter of FY2024, 4 of them are joining EX1 and EX2 here at Eglin, probably joining the 40 FLTS, 85 TES, 422 TES, or the 59 TES, I know EX1 is assigned to the 40th FLTS, while I’m not sure where EX2 is assigned. The other 2 EXs to be delivered will go to Kingsley Field for the Oregon ANG. P.S.: see you guys in Frankfurt 😉
No European air force currently operates the F-15. With Eurofighter the clue is in the name. If Poland is looking at air superiority as its priority, then as it is so close to Russian bases, the Typhoon's rate of climb will be important as will it's helmet mounted cueing system for dog fighting. However, I suspect that as as happened in the past in Europe, the US will find a way to put some pressure on Poland to buy the F-15 (which would still be an excellent choice).
Suspect former Eastern European countries won't be as susceptible to US 'persuasion' . They remember living under communist rule before and will want planes quickly. For all the arguing going on, the US have only built 6 F15EX airplanes so far and Poland need to rearm now. I hope the UK just give Poland the tranch 1 Eurofighters with Meteors which they can give to Ukraine. Ukrainian pilots have been training with the RAF which could now make sense. Poland can buy the newer models with source code and upgrade them as they see fit. May also be an opportunity to join the UK, Italy and Japan on the Tempest program.
I don't think either aircraft offers any qualitative advantages over the other that are significant enough to make a huge difference to the decision, both offer broadly speaking the same capabilities. It'll all come down to politics and depends on whether they want to bolster ties with the EU and the UK or the US more.
its not even a competition, especialy geopoliticaly how good relations PL & US are ... And btw, after I red some stuff, how F-35 + F-15 EX should cooperate together, its not even a question anymore.
There is a huge amount of institutional knowledge behind the Eagle. Poland can also readily find retired AF personnel to train their people. Typhoon is a sexy beast indeed, but it is 100 victories to no losses like Eagle.
@@LeonAusteven the J-20 is 12 years old, the Su-57 is 13, and the F-35 is 17. The original design/first flight of a modern version of a 4.5/4++ is of little relative relevance compared to the relevance of the modernization of avionics and hardware
If it comes with the new AESA radar, and the other upgrades coming with the latest ordered versions, then the EF2000 is the more capable platform, esp. for interceptor role as there's no fighter out there atm which can match the acceleration and climb rate of the EF.
You failed there. Both the top speed and the climb rate of the F-15 are superior to the Eurofighter. The climb rate of the F-15 is 342 Meters per second. The Climb rate of the Eorofighter is 315 Meters per second. You kinda failed there.
@@wadopotato33 You do realize those figures are for completely different loading configurations, right? The F-15 figure is for a light and completely slick F-15C, not a fat combat loaded F-15EX. Meanwhile the EF figure is for a interceptor loaded configuration (which includes 6 msl + centerline drop tank) So please, come again...
The typhoon is awesome but I think Poland and their requirements would be better suited going for the eagle. They have stealth covered, they got the agile fighter covered with the vipers I’d go f15 but either would work great
Although the Eagle has a high 'dash' speed when clean. It can't 'supercruise' with a full warload, whereas the Typhoon can at around mach 1.5. The Typhoon can also almost anything in the US arsenal aswell as everything Europe has to offer.
We Gotta know the fact that F-15 is operated by many U.S major allies like South Korea, Japan, Israel and Singapore. Recently, Indonesia has selected F-15EX for the next gen fighter jet and Israel has also selected F-15IA to replace their old F-15s. Interestingly, South Korean Air Force operates their F-15K along with German made Taurus KEPD 350 cruise missile. When it comes to the weapon selection range I think there is no fighter jet like F-15 which can operate various weapons.
Typhoon would be my bet, in its most modern configuration its an excellent platform, especially with weapons like Meteor. Also Poland has a deepening relationship with thr UK which might play a part, they also might not want to put all their eggs in one basket with the Americans.
For air policing Poland's eastern borders the Eurofighter Typhoon is the better choice. First of all it only needs 300ft to takeoff vs 900ft for the F15EX. Same picture for landing with 700ft for the Typhoon and 3600ft for the F15EX. Furthermore the Typhoon has a much better climb-rate with 62600ft/m vs 50.000ft/m for the F15. The Typhoons are just as interoperable with the F35´s as The F15 , so no difference there. The fuel economy is much better for Typhoons. The Eurofighter is slightly more expensive per unit at 117m$ vs 94m$ for the F15EX with the EPAWSS. Both are excellent fighters, but for the purpose of establishing air superiority in combination with a F35 backbone, I believe the Eurofighter is a mature but still more modern platform that would integrate better with the Polish requirements and logistics.
One item that is not discussed in the comparison is crew manning. In an extreme, fast-paced, hostile environment, the extra crewman of the F-15 can provide a level of information assimilation which can help to minimize information overload and assist in situational awareness. Yes, I know that today's technology can help to mitigate information overload through the help of digital display helmets, and sensor fusion. Nevertheless, having that extra being to see the situation, to assimilate the information and 'cover their six' can be a very decisive factor in the fast-paced air threat and combat environment. Yes, there is the additional cost of manpower, training and additional aircraft weight, but I believe that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
F-15 is a 1970s aircraft. Typhoon is twenty years newer. However the F-15EX can launch heavy weapons up to 7000lb & 22ft long. Does Poland want such heavy weapons? If so, the F-15EX is the way to go. If Poland does not need weapons heavier than 2000lb then the latest tranche 4 Typhoon makes more sense.
I hope Poland will choose the EF Typhoon, it would strengthen the European relationships much more Next to the factories being really close by and possibly getting to manufacture some parts
But Poland is not very trusting of the French and Germans, Spaniards and italians, and I can see why. In fact, Germany was instrumental in the Ukraine war happening in the first place since the Germans kept buying Russian gas right up to the point where they simply could not anymore. I know France is not in the EF program, but placing an order on the EF is still to cast your lot with Europe, especially the Germans, and casting ones lot with Europe means having to rely on the French to a higher degree than if you just consistently cast your lot with the US. As it stands, IMO only a fool would trust the Germans and the French in a cold or hot war with Russia, so stick with the US and the UK. Far as I can tell, Poland has always adviced caution that just wasn't heeded. Fact of the matter is, If Poland or the Baltics ever end up in a cold or hot war with Russia, they will simply look to the US for aid, and not Europe. So politically, the F15 EX makes infinitely more sense while technically, the EF is probably as good if not slightly more modern even. But F15 EX is what makes the most sense regardless. The One Political selling point for the EF might be the UKs heavy involvement with it, and why are also an OKish ally to have, but nothing that compares to the US at the end of the day.
The USAF is the primary operator of the Eagle Ii and has deep pockets to fund. any new tech needrd to keep the jet updated. Thr Typhoon is funded by Consortium and by countries with small defense budgets. New tech will takeu h longer to incorporate, if at all. For example, how long did it take for the EF to get an AESA radar vs the Anerican jet?
This is literally a choice between the 2 best 4th gen fighter jets in the world. With its latest updates the Eagle 2 unquestionably the best 4th gen fight jet in the world. On top of this Poland already flies the American F-16 Viper and will soon be getting the F-35. The F-15 makes perfect sense. However, the Typhoon is a younger airframe and will likely have more updates before being retired. More than this though, the biggest argument for the Eurofighter is their agreement for total tech transfer to Poland. This could be a Huge open door to Poland starting its own indigenous air industrial base, or potentially even signing on to 6th gen efforts in the future. Both have a great argument but it depends on which direction Poland wants to go. Keep buying the best stuff in the world or start making world class fighter jets along with your European peers. It'll be interesting to see what they decide.
With reduced american interest in europe a local product would be a more futureprove path. The EX is to reliant on the sensor suit the US Airforce can provide for their planes but the polish Airforce would be hard pressed to provide that. A full kitted Tranche 3 Block 25 Typhoon seems to be the most logic pick.
It´s a tough choise Poland has to do, and I wish you all th best to find the best suited jet. Generation 4 or Generation 4.5+ how much stealth do you want to have... if you care about most ------->> EF Typhoon how much weapon do you want to take with you... if this is the most wanted fact -------->> F15EX when it comes to the cost efficiency I guess Gripen39 could be also a matter of choise and its stealth capability is also next to EF Typhoon. It´s not from me but I think it gets the point: If we are talking newest tranche Eurofighters, they are superior to anything outside of the F22/F35. There is some argument for the F15EX due to payload, though with its large radar signature and poorer performance I am skeptical. Eurofighters also carry meteor, which is another leg up over US 4th gens.
Both aircraft would do a very good job for Poland but I would probably go for the Typhoon if for no other reason than to diversify, can weapon systems like stormshadow and brimstone be used on the F15? The best US weapons could be employed by the 16's and 35's and the best European weapons by Typhoon. If you choose the F15 then you're entire airforce is reliant on one nation for resupply and spares. What happens if the US gets in a full shooting war with China, will this pipeline still be available to you, If Russia really wanted to go West that would be the point it would do it. As unlikely as it seems now, it's something you should be aware of when talking about the defence of your nation.
If Poland goes with Eurofighter, they will also have to buy all new Meteor/Euro missiles to go with it, it's not interchangeable with AIM-9, AMRAAM, and other US weapons
Even though F-15 is my favourite, I think EF would be better choice for Poland because of its missile. MBDA Meteor is far more superior then anything that Russia has on their jets. But if they can integrate Meteor with F-15 it would be the best pick
In there posision i would go for the typhoon. With the latest captor E radar and all the modern weapons. And the typhoon has 4 other euripwan operators. And poland could in the next decade be part of the tempest program.
@@damnbobthebuildersHe said that it was upgradable, meaning that it could be done in the future. And the F15 can't take off from improvise one runaways, which is crucial to Poland strategy to combat a Russian innovation.
@@AmirShafeek no it isn’t. If that was the case, everyone would opt for the Typhoon. Poland will already have the F35 and F16 which both can already take off from very short runways
@jordanmascarenhas7974 At the current moment, Poland is facing out there. Mig 29 so the F16 and F35. Are we becoming main stays of the Polish Air Force both of which are capable of taking off of short and improvised runways? We know that if Russia were to ever invade Poland they would hammer their air bases and airports. And so does Poland. I suppose you could be right because they operated the mig 29 and that can't take off of improvised runways and they're phasing it out, so it does make sense that they buy the F15. If you look at it from that way, Either Way, both of them are very capable jets. And would serve the Polish Air Force very well.
I was an aircraft nerd as a kid and saw a third size mock up of the Typhoon in the 70's it took developers so long to get it in the air because systems were outpacing what the manufacturer wanted to put in it so it was decided to just get it out there with the idea of adaptability. The F-15 has a tried and tested career, its a tough call....
Black box on US made aircraft where Poland could be denied the code is huge. I like the F15 "bomb truck" concept, but if they buy Tranche 3A or 4, I'd vote Typhoon
So correct me if I'm wrong this is a plane advert directed to youtube window shoppers devoid of any news story to attach to. Why just mention 2 planes then. Do pick and choose more if youre pulling them out of the hat anyways.
Poland is making 2 new squadron and Boeing has offered the F-15EX and the Eurofighter Typhoon availability is higher, KF-21 is still few years away and F-16 availability is slow due to F-16V and upgraded kits same as F-15EX SAAB doesn't have the production capability, Poland is already buying 48 FA50 and F/A-18 super Hornet production is ending in 2025, that is all the real jet fighter covered.
Poland has the F-16 already, so they are familiar with the F-110 engine, US missiles, and avionics. this is a significant logistic advantage and cost savings, which is always a consideration.. the APG-82 borrows from both the radars of F-22 and f-35, again more savings. unless the typhoons are significantly cheaper, it wouldn't make sense to procure a completely new logistic chain.
I think the Typhoon is better for its long term potential in Poland's defense industry. The Eagle 2, although excellent, precludes an American monopoly over the Polish Air Force.
The cost for the F-15EX Eagle II is approximately $90 million to $ 97 million for each aircraft depending upon production lot, about $7.5 to 14 million more than the newest price for an F-35A. If Poland is already getting F-35s that cost less, what does the F-15 bring to the mission that justifies the cost ‽ By the way, that is a rhetorical question.
Are you serious with that question? It bring the ONLY platform capable of carrying hypersonic missiles, up to 22 air-air missiles, plus greater range than the competition and a greater climb rate, dive rate and top speed, lower cost of acquisition and maintenance. It’s not even close. F-15X Eagle II for the win
@@jordanmascarenhas7974 I guess you didn’t read the last sentence. I am not disagreeing with you, but the actual answer is relatively complex and the two aircraft are not interchangeable. My take on it is the actual reason is due to some issues with the F-35, the most important one being that for the US military is that the F-15 production slots are available a lot earlier than F-35. There are a number of other issues, but it is not a simplistic this or that is obviously better.
All fighter planes have their strengths and weaknesses. Poland could decide to split the order and buy both planes. This way they could choose which one is best for a particular mission.
Since Poland uses the F16 already and has a fully set up supply and maintenance network for the F16 it would be smarter to purchase the F15 considering it streamlines the maintenance effort, the Eurofighter is also a great aircraft but there are large differences between European and American jets
Thanks to Bespoke Post for sponsoring this video! New subscribers get 20% off their first box of awesome - go to bespokepost.com/pilotphotog20 and enter code PILOTPHOTOG20 at checkout.
Bespoke Post definitely has some good 💩
Good video but you need to upgrade your mic, it sounds like you are talking through a phone. sorry to sound negative.
It is first time I hear about that. While both were proposed to Poland. Most experts say to increase number of F-35.
Poland has no money or reason to buy any of those two.
Surprising to hear the US is considering exporting the EX model, and not a country-specific down-graded version…..
Everything is OK but my god that "inventive" name. F-15 Eagle II.. WTF?? Was that the best USAF can do? What about Golden Eagle, Bold Eagle, Super Eagle, etc, etc..... I don't know what's up with Pentagon's naming schemes in the last 20 or so years.. The perfect example is the venerable Hellfire missile with the coolest name ever. And the replacement is named JAGM, freaking acronym (Joint air to ground missile).. Come on...
We can't forget the F-35 Lightning II of course.. Have you ever heard anybody referring to the F-35 as the Lightning? Nope.. The pilot community has adopted a much cooler name for the F-35, calling it The Panther.
I'm afraid to think about the name for the NGAD fighter that will replace the incredibly named Raptor... What can we expect? F-23 Chicken? Dung beetle? Coo-coo? WTF??
Eurofighter allows the use of SAAB / BAE / MBDA weapons that are very good - Storm Shadow, Brimstone, Meteor and RBS15 are fantastic weapons
With how hesitant Germany was towards Russia before the invasion, I doubt Poland will trust Germany.
Aim 260, Peregrine and others are on the very near horizon for US fighters as well.
@@niweshlekhak9646 ...it can be - and the F15EX is a incredible machine also !... just needs to be supplied with the very best missiles too !...
@@jfiery Most us weapons are already integrated on the Typhoon.
@@joshafc41 agreed. Pretty much all of them. I was mainly commenting on the Meteor because it is the one weapon system that is better than anything the US currently fields.
In the end it'll all come down to what Poland deems is more important to it's strategy. I think the Eagle II has more going for it tactically, but the Typhoon makes more sense logistically.
I'm leaning a bit more towards the Typhoon, but either way Poland is going to get a really amazing fighter regardless of which they choose.
Without ALE-55/ALE-70, the ALQ-249 (EPAWSS) is not likely 'digital stealth' good enough to get an F-15E to a distance where it can make use of it's payload superiority to do the deed with the likes of GBU-53. Once you get beyond the 10/2 cutoff the APG-82 doesn't help you and the F-15EX is still a 7-10m2 RCS airframe.
AGM-158B/D are nice but they are also more than a 2 million, each.
Similarly, while the DASS has TRD, without the full-up Praetorian mod, the Typhoon survivability package is not sufficient. And some parts of that system are UK only, under direct control of BAe without export through Eurofighter Gmbh.
This is further aggravated by the lack of a standoff ARM.
However; Typhoon has the SPEAR-3 which is, essentially, GBU-53 with a turbine and a genuine 100km capability, high or low.
Thus it has the ALCM->GBU standoff option beat.
The U.S. AARGM/SIAW kit is looking really good and would be a good fit (heavy missile, quite large but unlike AGM-88E/F, ejector launch capable) for the F-15EX but could also be brought in on the F-35 which also provides at least some DEAD options.
Air to Air, without AIM-260, the Eagle is simply not competitive against the R-37M/R-77M. With it, the Meteor is still better but only once you accept the massive range:impulse variance in F-Pole. The ramAAM can get to distances comparable to the R-37M (for an EW protected fighter target) but most of that distance is going to be at an average Mach of 2.5 with only terminals at Mach 3+. The Mach 6.7 Axehead has an average Mach of 3.8 so, short of a massive improvement in EW (MALD-J or Swedish LALD) the Meteor is always going to be last to the A-pole. AIM-260 is worse, in that it is a Mach 5 class missile but only to max burn of 20-25nm, after which it has a Mach 3 midcourse to a (realistic) 40-50nm outer pole.
Only if the AIM-260 or Meteor is qualified to the F-35, with Sidekick, will Poland be genuinely competitive, air to air, with the Russian MiG-31 and Su-35. It will likely be inferior, kinematically, to the Su-57 and S-400 with the 40N6, even then.
The fact that the Typhoon has a genuine IRST should also not be ignored.
On a purely geo-political level, Poland should remember 1939 and the desperate orders for Hurricanes and MS-406/D.520 which went unanswered. Having a little variety in your arms suppliers is never a completely bad idea.
Logistically, doesn't matter, the U.S. has one of the best maintenance programs of any arms supplier and does so as a function of initial bed down contract. You will pay for the M&R guarantee because you won't get the jet without adequate 'NATO Plan' funded capabilities assurance.
This includes quarterly threat updates and 24hr maintenance call centers with an engine and airframe representative usually in-country.
Europe has nothing nearly so advanced and so their lower cost maintenance packages are not the deal they look to be.
The big deal is going to be getting in on the ground floor of what I believe is going to be a major reshuffling/power struggle change in the dynamic of NATO, once Ukraine is not on the table and Biden is gone. Blowing up an allies' energy delivery system is just not done and if America is politely asked to exit SHAPE there will be big changes as the EU sets up it's own army and tries to bring some unity to the defense overhead. Streamlining the multiplicity of service commands into a common air force/navy/army/expeditionary system with shared logistics suppliers and competitive bid structures/buyouts will be a monumental change for Europe, well beyond what EADS tried to do.
And about damn time.
As a result of this, American companies will be increasingly locked out, even from being able to sub-contract European maintenance service/parts suppliers and that could make keeping American weapons systems functional a lot more difficult for countries with a large inventory of non-European weapons systems.
Ukraine has basically become a giant Reset Button on East:West relations but it is also going to be a major driver on within-West assumptions of shared defense.
If this comes with a breaking of the Dollar GRC status, being America's defense customer may flatly no longer be matter of practical concern as the bottoming out of the dollar purchasing power against things like exotic materials or subsystems/component sourcing may well destroy the America Inc. defense sales business model, altogether.
@@xyz-hj6ulyou’re saying all this like the F-35 fleet isn’t going to start turning Russian airbases and air defenses into scrap from the outset of any conflict. Russian aircraft will quickly lose their air defense bubble and will quickly find themselves operating without any real support. The F-15 is more than capable of defending Polish airspace while the F-35 does its thing. The Su-57 doesn’t even have enough units to form a full squadron and the S-400 has seemingly been defeated by every western missile platform in Ukraine.
I will point out that the engines are the same in the f-15ex as it is in the F-16. So as far as Logistics go you're reducing the number of engines that you have to deal with which when you factor in everything is a huge deal. So I don't think that the Euro fighter has the logistics edge that it may look like on the surface.
*Edit for spelling and grammar
@@alexalbrecht5768
First off, I don't believe Russia intends to invade NATO Europe.
For much the same reason that it wouldn't invade after 1956 when Blue Danube signaled the arrival of an independent deterrent for the Brits.
The Vanguard and the Triomphant both make any real threat of loss or breakout by the knackered nag of the Russian Tank Force all but laughable and I frankly question where Poland is getting the money to create the largest armed forces in Europe which they don't intend to use.
Europe is in a severe economic recession which looks set to become a semi-permanent depression because our LNG is expensive as hell compared to the old Russian gaseous equivalent.
And Poland is not Germany with all that industrial profit to afford a real army/navy/air force.
This is important because when Germany asked for pricing data, the number which was quoted to them was 240 million, per jet.
Poland's version shouldn't be any better. Which means that they are going to be lucky to maintain anything like a 20hr per mission, per month, training schedule.
The F-15EX is going to be significantly cheaper to own and operate (85 million and 25,000 dollars per flight hour). The Typhoon, well... We'll just have to see. It's on the back side of a four tranche order with 'two of everything' and thus you are not going to see it get much cheaper because economies of scale just aren't there.
Having said all of this, the truth is that the F-35 is going to be the one which has the natively low signature to do actual 'digital stealth' and the F-35 pilots online have even bragged about it, calling it 'the wormhole generator' as a means to justify bringing in JDAM droppers to less than 15km for release.
The problem is that this is not how IAMDS work. The ADGE is dispersed. The missile TELs increasingly are not even battery-site associated with an engagement radar but depend on 4-5 surveillance systems which blink and use cooperative engagement multistatic trackfile synthesis to fire missiles which have their own radar (9M96E2, 40N6) or IR seeker (9M100) that lock on after an inertial midcourse.
These systems are not going to be amenable to stealth because stealth is both aspect and band dependent on effectiveness. Certainly an F-35 is not going to be covering for any F-15EX _or_ Typhoon which tries to penetrate to JDAM/SDB distance and as soon as you go JASSM, the range of the XR (900km) is so great that you might as well skip the bus platform and just ground launch it.
85 million dollars buys 40 JASSM ground launch variants, 240 million dollars buys 120 such missiles.
If you have satellites. If you have VLO reconnaissance UAS, then wasting money on an offensive strike warfare capacity, given how bloody minded the Poles are, is escalatory in a crazed fashion when the other side is the world's top nuclear state.
If the Russians come West they only have three COGs: Novo Sibirsk, St. Petersburg and Moscow before they are a dysfunctional society. All of which can be reached from the Atlantic coast. Any Atlantic coast.
If the Russians let us take Ukraine, their primary west-based nuclear deterrent could be struck, inside 5 minutes, from any PrSM or LRHW TEL, stripping them of their nuclear option.
Their offensive was for defensive purposes.
The West helping Ukraine is for offensive purposes. Not least because, if the Russians leave, the Ukrainians will commit genocide on the Lughansk and Donetsk and Crimean Russian populations.
I do not trust the Europeans not to find an excuse to start another war. It is in their blood. They slit each other's throats for amounts of land we wouldn't call a county, let alone a country. And having been proven suckers before, why wouldn't we come charging in to bleed, a third time?
Give them a robust surface to air defense capability but a very limited (no multi-cruise missile carrying long range strike bombers, no stealth pathfinders to target those missiles onto mobile targets) and maybe, when Biden is gone from office, we find the strength to save our populations from the consequences to an economic as much as military defeat, in Ukraine.
If Europe goes down hard, economically, there will be no one to PAY FOR another Grand Alliance to face the next military threat, whomever it may come from.
My bets are on the millions of MENA now overrunning Europe and setting up a criminal insurgency threat of enormous proportions.
The Poles are relatively safe from that, because the Visegrad States knew better than to be colonized by the terror which is Islam. Sobieski Remembers.
But it sincerely looks like they are setting themselves up to run a one-state war against Russia and, as NATO members, that must never happen. Nor even be entertained as possible.
Starfighter (F-104) though Poland was behind the Iron curtain at the time, politics plays just as big of a role as the planes capabilities. Right now the bulk of the capable equipment has been the M777, Himars, Javaline and Starlink. This isn't to deny how good other systems are but in comparison between the CV90 and M3 Bradley Ukrainian crews seem to enjoy the Bradley over the CV.
I love the F-15 as they were the first aircraft i worked around at my first base. The EX is such a major leap in abilities. If a local manufacturing center can be established it would be the ultimate option.
The Typhoon is also a powerful fighter. And with a local supplier and manufacturing partners it would be a better option.
Agree. F15 shouldn't even be an option. Rather a chose between Eurofighter and Gripen, as they both are produced close by and have as good and even better features than F15EX..
@@mikkorenvall428 Like why? Poland use F-35, F-16 and FA-50. Which each cover different category.
Poland literally do not need F-15, Typhon or especially Gripen.
Typhoon in theory should be a better option yet recent geopolitical turmoils showed that neither Italy nor Germany(Spain is questionable too) are reliable military partners for Poland. In such case F-15 is better option - mostly because paradoxically Poland has more common interests in Europe with the US than with France or Germany.
@@TheRezro Becuase all of those aircraft that you listed are not masters of their trades. F35 is a deep strike aircraft and would be key for potential invasions, F16 is a great small air fighters however its single engine is its downfall. FA-50 is a multiroll aircraft just like the F35 and there isnt anything the F35 cant do and do it better due to it being stealth. An F15 and Eurofighter are planes made for air domination meaning poland has an aircraft built from the ground up specifically for air combat. Not only that though it also means the integreation of new armaments, for example if poland takes the Typhoon they have access to Stormshadow a great stealth cruise missile, Meteor which is currently natos best Air to air missile which uses a scram jet engine to hit higher speeds and travel much further then almost all American missiles currently and they also have access to brimstone which is practically a javelin missile but can equip 3 for pretty much every hard point giving the aircraft about 12+ anti tank missiles maybe more. Not to mention they would have 2 very close allies being Germany and Italy who manufacter parts for typhoon making logistics insanely easy.
@@ashleygoggs5679 Most air combat in Poland would take place on relatively short ranges. F-15 and Typhon are excellent. But they are needed for larger style of combat expected from US. Poland can't really afford too many types and F-16 gradually go out of production, with F-35 being its direct replacement. FA-50 is armed trainer, intended to light F-16 and F-35 from less important tasks.
Seems like they have two pretty good fighters, both good options honestly.
Indeed. Poland is in a good position. Many allies, many friends, economic growth and better demographics than Germany.
@@SeeLasSee What allies? Do you mean western EU that can't wait until going back to business as usual with ruZZia so ru can rebuild their military faster? Or did you mean USA which WILL betray Poland just as they betray UA? USA does NOT want anyone to defeat ru, because USA is affraid of the consequences. So ru knows that they WILL get sth from ANY war, USA will make sure that the victim has NO possibilitty of winning.
Screw such 'allies'!!!
I think Poland wants to strengthen its partnership with the US.
The F-15 is the likely choice.
With the corrupt PiS Government gone, I assume Poland will rather reenvigorate its ties with EU.
With the corruption and autocratic tendencies gone, EU will pour 100s of Billions into Poland.
The US is strong and all, but it won't do that.
@@heinzkabofke6791 I think you fail to see how Poland sees itself in security matters; Poland trust the US to have its back, it doesn't trust the EU (Germany) to have the same commitment; especially with how Germany was hesitant towards Russia
It’s the only choice
they already bought F35A, Abrahms, HIMARS, Apache, etc. to US that's enough to strengthen its partnership
@@delfinenteddyson9865 In the end, Poland will pay it with EU-Money as biggest beneficiary of the EU. So they should at least make sure that their welfare money stays in the EU.
"It could be used as more than just a missile truck."
**proceeds to describe it being used as a missile truck**
the typhoon is also proven in action in saudi arabia where it has carried out thousands of strike missions, the saudis like them so much they have ordered another 64!, it is easy to work on and very reliable!
Hey, just a small comment on the Polish air force arsenal. Aside from the f16 and soon to come f35, Poland is also buying the korean FA-50, we are going to have around a dozen of them coming in the next few years. But overall you have made a great and entertaining video. Thanks.
I'm interested in seeing what Poland does with the FA-50. It might make Boeing put some teeth in the T-7 Redhawk. I love Polish programming .... well..... I love Kingdom Come : Deliverance
@@rapidsqualor5367 plane to transport potatoes, a cheap plane for everyday air policing, chasing down lost missiles or Iranian drones, not so much for combat but for supporting roles
The FA-50 will probably be used as combat capable trainers.
@@stupidburp Yup, it's a replacement for soon decommisioning Su-22 and MiG-29. Practically it's for air-policing missions and advanced jet training. Poland bought K-239 (instead of HIMARS) due to delivery times, costs, lack of offsets (even for ammunition) and potentially restrictions for use (what we're seen in last months in Ukraine.), so Poland doesn't bought for now only american sorties.
Both are very good. I would choose the Typo hokn fir one reason, the fact that Poland will have spares and back-up close at hand. They will also be able to contribute towards further development of the newer models in the future.
Id say, the Euro fighters are better Option for Poland while the F15 can do pretty much everything the Euro fighter can do and typically better at it. It can't do one very important thing. And that's take off from short runways or roads I guess that only matters if poland is still worried about Russia's Ballistic and cruise missile capability. And their ability to take out their planes before they can take off that's crucial to Poland's plan to combat Russian invasion I think having the ability to have your entire Air Force. Be able to take off from improvised runways. It's very important at least in Poland situation considering the fact that they border their enemies.
The coffee cup in runway length needed is negligible. Look it up
@@jordanmascarenhas7974 F fifteen e x usually requires eight thousand to ten thousand feet of runway to take off The Euro fighter Typhoon typically takes 2500 to 3000 feet are runaway to take off. That's a pretty sizable amount. In my opinion, obviously, this would vary depending on how much the aircraft is carrying. But considering the fact that everybody sees the F15EX as a missile and bomb truck. I don't see it taking off on short or improvised runways anytime soon.
The F15 can do everything the Typhoon can do but better? The Typhoon is a superior air to air platform in every way.
@joshafc41 with the limited amount of open source material that's out there for both the aircraft I think it's pretty easy to see that the F15 Has an edge over the Euro fighter in both air-to-air and air to ground. The F15 can fly higher, faster and farther than the Euro fighter Typhoon can. It has more Pylon's on the jet giving it the ability to carry more munitions per sortie It Can carry significantly more internal fuel. It has a significantly higher max, take off weight. Higher thrust to weight ratio. The Euro fighter is good at some things. It's just not better at them than it is the F15. It's more maneuverable and they can take off from improvised runways. That's all I can think of.
@@AmirShafeekIt's literally just a function of loading. Takeoff roll is proportional to weight^2. A clean light F-15A at (29000 lb) will lift off in 400 feet. The main reason the EF rated takeoff roll is shorter is mostly because it has a lower max payload.
The F-15 Eagle platform has been one of the most successful ever fielded. The F-15 Eagle II puts even that monster to shame. Longer range, better systems, greater capabilities. Merely HAVING them will cause any enemy to hesitate to commit/expose their air assets to that thing’s prowess.💯
However, if it’s my strategy, I’d pick the Typhoon. Here’s why:
1. The extra range on the EX is nice, but not really necessary.
2. Having an open source code is a HUGE advantage, operation-wise.
3. It can use a larger suite of weapons, which will aid both procurement and costs.
4. Given their other air attack assets, the Typhoon offers more upside for air superiority/defense.
5. While both are runway queens, I’d bet the Typhoon is a bit more rugged than F-15EX. Given Poland’s proximity to their biggest threat, this should be considered.🧐
Strictly my opinion, and the decision should be decided based on the strategy of defense, or attack. If they want to be more offensive, that means more American weapons. The F-15EX might be better for a more offensive approach.🤷🏾♂️
F-15 is american way of thinking; "what's bigger, it's better".
Two-engine figher in european evironment is pure nonsense.
@@podunkman2709, then why do European nations build so many?🙄
Two engines is more about redundancy, than anything else.🤷🏾♂️
you do know that almost every european fighter built in the last 75 years has 2 engines, right? in fact, its the americans who make the most single engine fighters.
😅😅 Fighters that have yet to see combat; Eurofighter.
Fighters with a 105 W to 0 L combat record; F-15E. Hmmm, let me think.... 😅😅😅
I worked on the computer systems for the conformal fuel tank modifications to the F-15E in the mid-eighties for 3 years as a consultant to McDonnell Douglas. The F-15E is a beast, twin-engined, huge range of 1,200nm thanks to the conformal fuel tanks, rapid climb rate 50,000 ft/min, 60,000 ft high ceiling, and a speed of Mach 2.5, which makes it the world's fastest fighter jet, air supremacy, all weather, 2 seater. No one has ever shot one down because our pilots are the best and the F-15 is a flying tank. The F-15EX is as tough as a fighter plane can get.
@@elessartelcontar9415, well… I wanted to be humble, but that IS a damning stat.😁
Again, I think the strategy should dictate the choice. Given the terrain of most of Poland, I’d go with a more offensive strategy. Mobility isn’t really a problem. There aren’t as many natural features to aid defense, anyway. Not like Ukraine. That means EAGLE IIs, baby!😜
The only issues to work out are logistical. That can change a weapon’s suitability, even for a mission it was designed to perform. The Typhoon removes THOSE issues (only) as it can fire a few weapons the Eagle II can’t…yet. However, the decision must be made now. The ubiquity of that plane in that region, logistics pressures are eased. In truth, both planes are popular. However, defense as the main strategy, wartime conventional wisdom holds that the more local a thing is made, the easier it is to find parts to repair said thing. This strategy invites attempts at attrition.🧐
Again, the strategy should be considered, before that choice can be well made.🤷🏾♂️
There was zero mention as to whether Poland would get the AESA radar with their typhoon. Kinda the biggest question regarding what their typhoon will come with. Moreover, maybe a mention of how a typhoon armed with Meteor has a longer stick for killing manoeuvring targets than anything else on the planet right now
I'd imagine any new Typhoons would come with modern AESA, look at the ones sold to middle Eastern countries and the newer variants recently purchased by European countries, they all have AESA's as far as I'm aware.
@@AB-gi3qy don’t think any production typhoon is flying with one yet. They have tested them. But introducing them into typhoons I don’t think I’d a thing yet. There are 3 different sensors. The UK AESA being the most sophisticated. Those have not been put into trench 3 RAF typhoons yet. Also the Germans don’t have one in their typhoons either I don’t think
AIM-260 JATM launched from F-35. First hit first kill.
@@butterwaffeln not in production yet
@@zhufortheimpaler4041 already tested
The F-15EX Eagle II would integrate seamlessly with the F-35’s hive mind concept. It’s one reason why the USAF has decided to order the F-15EX. It’ll act as missile truck guided by F-35s & AWACS. While maintaining its legendary air superiority & close air support roles.
Typhoons do that already in the UK.
The USAF didn't "decide" to buy it, the USAF never wanted it. The Pentagon made them buy them when it was run by a former executive of Boeing (No corruption here!). As usual the public is propagandized and the military is forced to pay for welfare programs so executives holding stocks in defense companies get filthy rich.
@@davedevonlad7402All of the American aircraft are data linked this way. The F-15 II is another crony-capitalism project for the Pentagon stock holders.
F-15 never fought a decent opponent by which I mean an air superiority fighter of the same generation, so all these promo talks in documentaries about the awesomeness of F-15 are just hot air. The early F-15 variant was an utter joke compared to Tomcat which clearly showed when Eagle was unable to shoot down a Mig-25 interceptor/recon jet over Israel without first luring it into lower altitude, and this changed only with AMRAAM missiles available a lot later after Eagle introduction into service. Personally, I think that Gripen E with Meteor missiles would be a far better fit for Poland considering experiences in Ukraine where even Mig-29 were found quite formidable as long as they were not destroyed on airfields, which both Mig-29 and Gripen E can deal with by operating from improvised airfields for which most of the US jets outside things like F-18E/F Superhornet aren't build for well enough.
Just consider that Poland is a nation with a similar GDP to Sweden yet on an overspending spree as if planning to follow Greece's path to insolvency...
If Poland wants to do the right thing to complement the F-35, they can just buy the Gripen E and perhaps ask for a stronger variant of the licensed engine used in the Gripen E from the US, so they can keep cozy relations with the US government by making purchasing choices that allows them to be a customer for a long time instead of going bankrupt...
@@IonorRea The F-15 fought in the 91 Gulf War which everything from Fox Bats to MiG 29s. The F-15 has a more accomplished record than the F-14 and easily outlived it.
Access to all the Software,.. (no black boxes) is a huge advantage I think, also the EF2000 is a more modern design than the F-15, I wonder what Acceleration, Climbrate, Topspeed,.. a EF with the newer EJ270Engines with 120kN trust would have, also the new EW capabilities of the Tranch-5 Typhoons should be quite outstanding, think Poland should get a 'Tranch-6' EF with all that new engines and features.
100,000 subscribers!!! That’s amazing! Congratulations! It’s been a pleasure watching your channel grow. Thank you for the amazing content!
Both are good options, the eurofighter does have better air-to-air range with the meteor over an amraam, but the f-15EX can carry up to 20 missiles
The typhoon is an excellent fighter but the F-15 EX Eagle 2 is loaded with far more advantages than you could even list in this video edition. Poland would get 20000 hours of max capability .
OK but the eurofighter has access to more advanced missiles
I struggle to see many where it beats the latest versions of the Typhoon being flogged conclusively. Happy to be proven wrong, but other than sheer number of hard points I don’t think it’s the superior platform.
It really is wild that the F-15EX has such a powerful radar, but doesn't have competitive BVR missiles to take full advantage of it (yet). @@guitar7279
@@rickwalker2 F-15 EX II can carry 22 missiles, while Typhoon can carry upto 8 missiles. The F-35 can tell F-15 EX II where the dangers are with it's stealth, radar and IRST capabilities and F-15 can just launch missiles towards that direction.
It's the other way around even the F15 ex lags behind the current version of the Typhoon in many areas. The upgrades in the pipeline for the Typhoon will give it additional capabilities the F15 ex can only dream of.
The F-15 EX and the F-35 systems interchange. Imagine the Eagle II’s powerful AESA radar honing in on an air defense system from a stand off range while the F-35s sweeps in with that info and stealth to destroy it. Then the F-15s come in with their remarkable bomb carrying capability to destroy whatever the air defense was protecting. That is an integrated system.
The Eurofighter would have it just the same, after half a year.
The smartest choice is always their own economy; Eurofighters best for that, and it has much better thrust/weight, a bit of stealth, way higher surface ceiling and is way more maneuverable. It would win in a heads-on BVR confrontation and in a Dogfight. The F-15 would be better for large bombing raids.
So question is: Air Superiority or Bombing ?
also possibel with the eurofighter, just needs certification from us and software update as with most nato standardized system + the companies do that also as a + point for selling them to get more buyers as the integration is easy same with israeli systems and many of korean,japanese, singapore systems
Track record Eurofighter VS F15 ???
link 16 is a nato data interoperability standard. more than just the americans can interact in that way.
If Tusk becomes new president, he could lean to Europe again and choose the Eurofighter. If the political renewal in Poland doesn't work out it will be the F-15EX.
The F-15EX is now the fastest documented combat aircraft currently flying, it also has high weapons load of any combat fighter in world from air to air to air to ground munitions and has a new helmet mounted HUD, next gen combat computer/data link, along with next gen AESA radar.
have we forgotten about the Russian Mig-25 and Mig-31 (Mach 3 capable but with a complete engine change) which are seen on satellite photos stationed in Crimea I believe.
Forget about speed since it’s not a mission critical requirement and with any external load you’re limited anyway.
MIG 25 and MIG 31 are Interceptors. They fly fast and high, that's it. They can't Dogfight and they are not set up for ground attack or carrying enormous payloads.
@@Grouse2275 sustained speed IS important when we are talking about BVR which the F-15EX most definitely will be fulfilling.
Having the launch aircraft have as high a speed and altitude as possible gives your missile that much more range and energy. It literally adds on to the missile's performance and thus capable of out ranging enemies. This is useful today and in to the future as BVR becomes the norm especially with the F-35 being the stealth sensor system while the EX being a missile truck from far away.
Latest EF variant also has a powerful ASEA radar. Instead of pointing out capabilities on one side you should maybe compare the. This is not a "how much do you like America" contest.
You have to take into account the change in majority that just occurred. The previous government went into a rampage buying frenzy that is menacing the financial capacity of the country, for political reasons, and was anti-EU. The new majority is pro-EU and will have to restaure a reasonable budget, they will probably wish to renegociate some deals and take their time for their new orders. Poland cannot afford a mix of air superiority and air-to -ground planes, they need a multirole fighter. That suggests that the Eurofighter may be a better choice, but Poland will also hesitate to buy from Germany. I think no large order will be passed before many years, and that could actually be between F35 and Rafale rather than between F15 and Eurofighters.
Typhoon can be purchased from Italy or UK or Spain or Germany. Poles will decide which will be tge lead contractor and look for local participation offset plus participation in long term development eg Tempest.
True but the share of German-made components in the planes will remain as is (that's part of the agreement between partners) so that means Germany will have a say in Poland's Typhoons (as for example it is blocking Typhoons' sales to Saudi Arabia, although it would never block sales to a EU country of course), so politics may remain an issue, even if the new government is far more tolerant to Germany than the previous one. Under the current Eurofighter's consortium agreement, there is very little they could offer to Poland as counterparts, future Eurofighter's development currently is blocked unless Germany actually buys new planes, and that's not sure at all@@michaelmazowiecki9195
@@VoltaireVoltaire-zq4zh replacement Typhoon orders are being placed as the oldest ones end their service. I suspect further upgrades will take place as Tempest 5/6gen development costs become prohibitive. As for Germany's role German manufacturing is looking for firm orders. We are getting rid of the lunatic populist government of the past 8 years here in Poland and fully committing to both EU and Nato. Buying European makes both economic and political sense. The question is Typhoon or Rafale or Gripen.
Eagle II is the way to go. A highly refined version of an incredible plane.
a lot of bias going on in these posts, americans of course batting for f15
@@brianpreval5602 Well, I can't vote for the F-16XL now can I 😁
yes it is, i really like the f15 but i'm biased as well being a brit and having worked on typhoon! they are both great aircraft and the polish government are on a win win whichever they choose
The smartest choice is always their own economy; Eurofighters best for that, and it has much better thrust/weight, a bit of stealth, way higher surface ceiling and is way more maneuverable. It would win in a heads-on BVR confrontation and in a Dogfight. The F-15 would be better for large bombing raids.
So question is: Air Superiority or Bombing ?
@@lantinian The F15-EX is well behind completion for the murica AirForce, so it would be decades before they'll be exporting it to other countries. All they would realistically get is F15 Eagle.
I gotta go for the F-15EX, it's not only more compatible with the F-16s, F-35s, and AH-64s already bought by Poland, but it has a significantly longer service life....
Yep, 20000 flight hours for each airframe is insane
The F-15EX is a great compliment to the F-35. The F-35 can run QB, using the F-15EX as a missile truck. Now the F-35 is leveraged to its maximum.
@dne9394; Sir, that's what the F-35s were made for, to QB while using other assets to complete an extremely effective "kill chain". That been said, the F-35s are in the block 4 improvement meaning that like any new Weapons Platform it'll continue to get better and more effective as time passes by.
Take care Sir.
If choosing one of them gives Poland an inside track to get a gen 6 aircraft, then they will choose that one.
That is a factor that seems a valuable insight. If the typhoon can help lead Poland into getting into getting into one of the joint 6 gen programs, then that would be helpful for their defense in the long term.
@@mill2712 Yep. The US did not export the F-22, so I don't think the US will let the NGAD fighter to be sold to Poland.
I look for:
1.Speed
2.Electronics
3.smallness
4.upgrade electronics
5.Start in every weather
Stealth are to expensive to build in every time a new plane are build..😊
The F-15 has the radar cross section of a barn.
The Eurofighter is a great air tonair and air to ground platform. The F-15X is basically a truck. It can complement other platforms such as the F-35, but I doubt its survivability in a modern conflict. The Eurofighter can survive much better in modern air war, with towed decoys and a good array of electronic countermeasures. Plus, it has been designed for the scenario, the polish wants to use it: air dominance against russian aircraft.
Sir, that radar cross-section statement is an insult to barns everywhere!
Poland bought FA 50 and F 35 in the last few years. Air Force does not want to introduce another type in logistics and will stay with 3 types after the withdrawal of SU's and MIG's
well the FA-50PL covers the Training and low cost Air Patrol, F-35 covers NATO and first strike, the 36 F-16 and
12 F-16D are a stopgap, SU-22 small bomber and Mig-29 multirole fighters, all 3 are in the end going out.
32 F-15EX cover more then the Typhoon and in the long run having 32 F-15EX heavy bomber/fighter is good thing
as Poland feet will be 10 tactical squadrons 2 F-35, 3 FA-50, 2 F-15EX and 3 F-16 that will replaced with 3 KF-21PL
@@1BigBen Bielik and Orlik are covering training. FA 50PL will be light multi roll fighter with AESA radar. For F16 modernization is planned and its not a stopgap .If Poland buys more equipment, it will probably be another 16 F35s. And don't forget that 700 MLRSs are something for Poland that should perform tactically similarly to the A10 or SU 25
@@julianizydorczak5258 Bielik didn't go anywhere and Orlik is getting old,
the FA-50 is the standard trainer for must modern fighter and reason behind 16 of them will be used as trainers for the F35, now PZL Mielec F-16PLV is still a big a question mark and unlike, but current Polish F-16 are Block 52 aircraft 2006-9 and could be upgraded with some part from PZL Mielec,
KF-21PL would offered more than F-16PLV for the future for Poland.
there are really just 3 tank killing CAS jets in the world
SU 17/22/24 etc old and kept in the air with used parts only, it is EOL
Panavia Tornado is being retired in 2024/25 ether going to Ukraine or be scraped
A-10 staying in service, but will not be sold
that is why Poland is buying 96 AH-64E Apache attack helicopters
even with Rheinmetall F-35 production 32 +16 or +32 will take to much time
even with PZL Mielec more F-16 will also take to much time
Boeing says 3 to 4 years to delivered all 32 F-15EX
there are 48 used Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1 coming to the used market
it would be fasted way to get 2 new squadrons in training and to the air
new Eurofighter Typhoon could take 4 to 10 year to delivered all 32 jet
2026 Poland could sign a deal for KF-21 with jet start coming between 2027-30
its not a easy choose
today feet 36 F-16c, 23 Mig-29 and iffy 32 SU-22
I'm 50/50 on this, the latest upgrades on both aircrafts make the even more lethal. But i'm leaning towards the typhoon for Poland's situation
Also- so close to 100k subscribers! I’ve been waiting for this channel to take off.
POLAND in 10 years will be superpower , Poland is the shield of Europe. , good bless POLAND. greeting from CANADA.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
If they want a point interceptor that can be used off highways and small fields dispersed the the Eurofighter is the choice, if they want air superiority and are not worried about their airfields id say the F15EX
The EF is clearly the one for AIR Superiority. Not the Eagle?
@@Schupfnudel111maybe for dogfighting. The radar, speed, and payload capacity on the eagle make it the logical choice. That and the absurdly long airframe lifespan.
@@alexalbrecht5768The Typhoons Radar 2, BVR, ECM and electronic attack capabilities are all superior to what the F15 has to offer. Not to mention sustained supersonic performance.
@@joshafc41 The AN/APG-82(V) 1 uses proven components and is designed to make maintenance a non issue. What real advantage can the Captor E offer? The new fully digital EPAWSS system offers comprehensive ECM capabilities to allow the F-15 to dominate the skies. The marginal super cruise of the Eurofighter is still inferior to the ability of the F-15 to reach its target faster when the need arises. Time is of the essence when it comes to intercepting and destroying enemy aircraft. And as I mentioned before the airframe lifespan difference is immense. The F-15 is designed for a service life of 20,000 hours. That is more than 3 times the 6,000 hours of the Eurofighter. Why should Poland waste their money on a maintenance intensive fighter that will be out of service after a fraction of the operating time?
Ha! The mythical performance of the F-15! The Mach 2.5 speed it’s probably ever reached a handful of times with no payload! And how long can it sustain that speed? 5 minutes? There’s no way it covers long distances faster without supercruise.
And that second magical number: the 20,000h airframe! That just says the airframe should survive a prolonged use. It doesn’t tell you how much it costs for all the rest to be in flying condition. Apparently the official number is $29,000 an hour. But until it is actually used, it’s just a guess. And who knows if it’ll be easy to upgrade. The airframe life on his own doesn’t mean that much…
I see you at 99.9K - Congrats in advance to 100k!
Thank you!!!! Very, very close.
The F-15 is the logical choice and the available payload/ordnance make it the smarter choice. I’m a big fan of the Typhoon, but the decision isn’t a tough one when you’re thinking about tomorrow’s war and fighting along side the F-35. I really like this video, Tog…it’s fantastic. I see you’re very close to 100K, congratulations! 🥳
@@M3rl1n177 Finland doesnt have F-15s. The backbone of the Finnish Air Force is F/A-18 Hornet.
Meteor and Scalp are probably at least as useful as their american counterparts...
No doubt the F-15 EX is a fantastic fighter aircraft.
But the technology transfer/source code from Euro fighter is undeniable much better offer. So I will go with the Typhoon Euro Fighter.❤
"There's been a huge time gap in delivery acquisition of the F-15ex , From what I read the US is a year behind schedule in acquiring between 1-4 fighters.
They're up to six now I think.
Speaking of the F-15EX… did you notice that EX3, or F-15EX 20-0003 (or 20-003, not sure which), actually doesn’t have CFTs? it is also the first one to be built in final operational configuration, so that is probably a big part of it.. it flew its first flight I think…. last week? There are, I think, 6 EXs scheduled to be delivered between the last quarter of FY2023 and the first quarter of FY2024, 4 of them are joining EX1 and EX2 here at Eglin, probably joining the 40 FLTS, 85 TES, 422 TES, or the 59 TES, I know EX1 is assigned to the 40th FLTS, while I’m not sure where EX2 is assigned. The other 2 EXs to be delivered will go to Kingsley Field for the Oregon ANG.
P.S.: see you guys in Frankfurt 😉
I know the F15EX will be stationed in Klamath Falls Oregon at Kingsley Field. All F15EX pilots will receive their flight training there.
No European air force currently operates the F-15. With Eurofighter the clue is in the name. If Poland is looking at air superiority as its priority, then as it is so close to Russian bases, the Typhoon's rate of climb will be important as will it's helmet mounted cueing system for dog fighting. However, I suspect that as as happened in the past in Europe, the US will find a way to put some pressure on Poland to buy the F-15 (which would still be an excellent choice).
Suspect former Eastern European countries won't be as susceptible to US 'persuasion' . They remember living under communist rule before and will want planes quickly. For all the arguing going on, the US have only built 6 F15EX airplanes so far and Poland need to rearm now. I hope the UK just give Poland the tranch 1 Eurofighters with Meteors which they can give to Ukraine. Ukrainian pilots have been training with the RAF which could now make sense. Poland can buy the newer models with source code and upgrade them as they see fit. May also be an opportunity to join the UK, Italy and Japan on the Tempest program.
I think it comes down to cost. Unfortunately, the F-15 EX costs more, even though it offers greater capability.
F-15EX for sure baby, not even close imo
Congrats on 100k tog! You deserve every bit of those subscribers.
Eurofighter typhoon is not heavy weight category. Its medium omnirole platform compared with Raphael, gripenE, F16 block70, mig35 etc.
After the 100 Billion euros Europe gave Poland they better buy European
Europe needs a European platform developed for the European theater. The F-15 EX allows long-range and heavy payload missions, though.
thats a good dilemma to be in
I don't think either aircraft offers any qualitative advantages over the other that are significant enough to make a huge difference to the decision, both offer broadly speaking the same capabilities. It'll all come down to politics and depends on whether they want to bolster ties with the EU and the UK or the US more.
The Eagles have some difficulty to catch bats while the Eurofighter seems to have the air superiority role capability from the beginning to the end.
its not even a competition, especialy geopoliticaly how good relations PL & US are ...
And btw, after I red some stuff, how F-35 + F-15 EX should cooperate together, its not even a question anymore.
There is a huge amount of institutional knowledge behind the Eagle. Poland can also readily find retired AF personnel to train their people. Typhoon is a sexy beast indeed, but it is 100 victories to no losses like Eagle.
Both old 4.5 gen
@@LeonAusteven the J-20 is 12 years old, the Su-57 is 13, and the F-35 is 17. The original design/first flight of a modern version of a 4.5/4++ is of little relative relevance compared to the relevance of the modernization of avionics and hardware
This shouldn’t really be a hard choice.
If it comes with the new AESA radar, and the other upgrades coming with the latest ordered versions, then the EF2000 is the more capable platform, esp. for interceptor role as there's no fighter out there atm which can match the acceleration and climb rate of the EF.
You failed there. Both the top speed and the climb rate of the F-15 are superior to the Eurofighter. The climb rate of the F-15 is 342 Meters per second. The Climb rate of the Eorofighter is 315 Meters per second. You kinda failed there.
@@wadopotato33 You do realize those figures are for completely different loading configurations, right? The F-15 figure is for a light and completely slick F-15C, not a fat combat loaded F-15EX. Meanwhile the EF figure is for a interceptor loaded configuration (which includes 6 msl + centerline drop tank) So please, come again...
F-15EX is custom designed to work with F-35A. Typhoon is a wonderful option as well. What a great problem for Poland to solve!
The typhoon is awesome but I think Poland and their requirements would be better suited going for the eagle.
They have stealth covered, they got the agile fighter covered with the vipers I’d go f15 but either would work great
congrats on 100,000
Thank you!
Is the Eurofighter in production? Is the F-15?
I believe both are right now, thanks for commenting!
The F15 is definitely the superior plane and with its incredible load out and high top speed makes it a no brainer.
top speed hasn't been important for 50 years
Although the Eagle has a high 'dash' speed when clean. It can't 'supercruise' with a full warload, whereas the Typhoon can at around mach 1.5. The Typhoon can also almost anything in the US arsenal aswell as everything Europe has to offer.
We Gotta know the fact that F-15 is operated by many U.S major allies like South Korea, Japan, Israel and Singapore. Recently, Indonesia has selected F-15EX for the next gen fighter jet and Israel has also selected F-15IA to replace their old F-15s. Interestingly, South Korean Air Force operates their F-15K along with German made Taurus KEPD 350 cruise missile. When it comes to the weapon selection range I think there is no fighter jet like F-15 which can operate various weapons.
Twenty years ago it would have made sense to get the F-15 but now the Typhoon is just superior and it can dogfight.
The EX are very different then the F-15 in the old days.
Typhoon would be my bet, in its most modern configuration its an excellent platform, especially with weapons like Meteor. Also Poland has a deepening relationship with thr UK which might play a part, they also might not want to put all their eggs in one basket with the Americans.
9 mins on the F-15, 3 mins on the Typhoon. :)
Either aircraft would be a win-win situation. Poland can't pick a lesser aircraft between these two.
Picture an F15 taking off in defence of it's borders. With orders from the US not to fire on anything outside it's borders.
That's more a scenario one would imagine with the German Typhoon but alright.
Either choice will be more than a match for what they might encounter.
For air policing Poland's eastern borders the Eurofighter Typhoon is the better choice. First of all it only needs 300ft to takeoff vs 900ft for the F15EX. Same picture for landing with 700ft for the Typhoon and 3600ft for the F15EX. Furthermore the Typhoon has a much better climb-rate with 62600ft/m vs 50.000ft/m for the F15. The Typhoons are just as interoperable with the F35´s as The F15 , so no difference there. The fuel economy is much better for Typhoons. The Eurofighter is slightly more expensive per unit at 117m$ vs 94m$ for the F15EX with the EPAWSS. Both are excellent fighters, but for the purpose of establishing air superiority in combination with a F35 backbone, I believe the Eurofighter is a mature but still more modern platform that would integrate better with the Polish requirements and logistics.
One item that is not discussed in the comparison is crew manning. In an extreme, fast-paced, hostile environment, the extra crewman of the F-15 can provide a level of information assimilation which can help to minimize information overload and assist in situational awareness. Yes, I know that today's technology can help to mitigate information overload through the help of digital display helmets, and sensor fusion. Nevertheless, having that extra being to see the situation, to assimilate the information and 'cover their six' can be a very decisive factor in the fast-paced air threat and combat environment. Yes, there is the additional cost of manpower, training and additional aircraft weight, but I believe that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
Clearly Eurofighter is a better choice by a wide margin.
HMMMM, I believe the Eurofighter Typhoon is less costly to buy & maintain. Strange, the Saab Gripen E is not considered, why.
F-15 is a 1970s aircraft. Typhoon is twenty years newer. However the F-15EX can launch heavy weapons up to 7000lb & 22ft long. Does Poland want such heavy weapons? If so, the F-15EX is the way to go. If Poland does not need weapons heavier than 2000lb then the latest tranche 4 Typhoon makes more sense.
I hope Poland will choose the EF Typhoon, it would strengthen the European relationships much more
Next to the factories being really close by and possibly getting to manufacture some parts
But Poland is not very trusting of the French and Germans, Spaniards and italians, and I can see why. In fact, Germany was instrumental in the Ukraine war happening in the first place since the Germans kept buying Russian gas right up to the point where they simply could not anymore. I know France is not in the EF program, but placing an order on the EF is still to cast your lot with Europe, especially the Germans, and casting ones lot with Europe means having to rely on the French to a higher degree than if you just consistently cast your lot with the US. As it stands, IMO only a fool would trust the Germans and the French in a cold or hot war with Russia, so stick with the US and the UK.
Far as I can tell, Poland has always adviced caution that just wasn't heeded. Fact of the matter is, If Poland or the Baltics ever end up in a cold or hot war with Russia, they will simply look to the US for aid, and not Europe. So politically, the F15 EX makes infinitely more sense while technically, the EF is probably as good if not slightly more modern even. But F15 EX is what makes the most sense regardless. The One Political selling point for the EF might be the UKs heavy involvement with it, and why are also an OKish ally to have, but nothing that compares to the US at the end of the day.
Especially as regardless they'll be paying for it with EU money
The USAF is the primary operator of the Eagle Ii and has deep pockets to fund. any new tech needrd to keep the jet updated.
Thr Typhoon is funded by Consortium and by countries with small defense budgets. New tech will takeu h longer to incorporate, if at all. For example, how long did it take for the EF to get an AESA radar vs the Anerican jet?
That's true but the current funded upgrades in the pipeline for the Typhoon are more advanced than either F35 or F15.
This is literally a choice between the 2 best 4th gen fighter jets in the world. With its latest updates the Eagle 2 unquestionably the best 4th gen fight jet in the world. On top of this Poland already flies the American F-16 Viper and will soon be getting the F-35. The F-15 makes perfect sense. However, the Typhoon is a younger airframe and will likely have more updates before being retired. More than this though, the biggest argument for the Eurofighter is their agreement for total tech transfer to Poland. This could be a Huge open door to Poland starting its own indigenous air industrial base, or potentially even signing on to 6th gen efforts in the future. Both have a great argument but it depends on which direction Poland wants to go. Keep buying the best stuff in the world or start making world class fighter jets along with your European peers. It'll be interesting to see what they decide.
I suppose the best pick depends on what capabilities Poland is going for but I’m leaning on them picking the F-15 regardless.
Eurofighters hands down.
With reduced american interest in europe a local product would be a more futureprove path. The EX is to reliant on the sensor suit the US Airforce can provide for their planes but
the polish Airforce would be hard pressed to provide that. A full kitted Tranche 3 Block 25 Typhoon seems to be the most logic pick.
It´s a tough choise Poland has to do, and I wish you all th best to find the best suited jet.
Generation 4 or Generation 4.5+
how much stealth do you want to have... if you care about most ------->> EF Typhoon
how much weapon do you want to take with you... if this is the most wanted fact -------->> F15EX
when it comes to the cost efficiency I guess Gripen39 could be also a matter of choise and its stealth capability is also next to EF Typhoon.
It´s not from me but I think it gets the point:
If we are talking newest tranche Eurofighters, they are superior to anything outside of the F22/F35.
There is some argument for the F15EX due to payload, though with its large radar signature and poorer
performance I am skeptical. Eurofighters also carry meteor, which is another leg up over US 4th gens.
The dialog sounds like it was written by the marketing department of Boeing and read by a bored computer.
Poland is in the EU so be smart and get into the Eurofighter family.
Both aircraft would do a very good job for Poland but I would probably go for the Typhoon if for no other reason than to diversify, can weapon systems like stormshadow and brimstone be used on the F15? The best US weapons could be employed by the 16's and 35's and the best European weapons by Typhoon. If you choose the F15 then you're entire airforce is reliant on one nation for resupply and spares. What happens if the US gets in a full shooting war with China, will this pipeline still be available to you, If Russia really wanted to go West that would be the point it would do it. As unlikely as it seems now, it's something you should be aware of when talking about the defence of your nation.
Also the risk of an anti Nato President like Putin's pal, Trump.
If Poland goes with Eurofighter, they will also have to buy all new Meteor/Euro missiles to go with it, it's not interchangeable with AIM-9, AMRAAM, and other US weapons
The new fighter chosen by Poland must offer what the existing F-16 and F-35 cannot offer. The F-15 EX seem to be the better option.
Typhoon is the best bet as by 2035 the 'Tempest' will be flying too,- a 6th Generation. Locally built.
Even though F-15 is my favourite, I think EF would be better choice for Poland because of its missile. MBDA Meteor is far more superior then anything that Russia has on their jets.
But if they can integrate Meteor with F-15 it would be the best pick
They will most probably get the new AIM-260 for both the F-35 and F-15. Though it shouldn't be a problem to integrate most NATO weapons if need be.
In there posision i would go for the typhoon. With the latest captor E radar and all the modern weapons. And the typhoon has 4 other euripwan operators. And poland could in the next decade be part of the tempest program.
I think the Typhoon, as it was developed as a totally upgradable bed for all future avionics
Have you seen a f15ex cockpit, it’s basically a f35 display
@@damnbobthebuildersHe said that it was upgradable, meaning that it could be done in the future. And the F15 can't take off from improvise one runaways, which is crucial to Poland strategy to combat a Russian innovation.
@@AmirShafeek no it isn’t. If that was the case, everyone would opt for the Typhoon. Poland will already have the F35 and F16 which both can already take off from very short runways
@jordanmascarenhas7974 At the current moment, Poland is facing out there. Mig 29 so the F16 and F35. Are we becoming main stays of the Polish Air Force both of which are capable of taking off of short and improvised runways? We know that if Russia were to ever invade Poland they would hammer their air bases and airports. And so does Poland. I suppose you could be right because they operated the mig 29 and that can't take off of improvised runways and they're phasing it out, so it does make sense that they buy the F15. If you look at it from that way, Either Way, both of them are very capable jets. And would serve the Polish Air Force very well.
I was an aircraft nerd as a kid and saw a third size mock up of the Typhoon in the 70's it took developers so long to get it in the air because systems were outpacing what the manufacturer wanted to put in it so it was decided to just get it out there with the idea of adaptability.
The F-15 has a tried and tested career, its a tough call....
Black box on US made aircraft where Poland could be denied the code is huge. I like the F15 "bomb truck" concept, but if they buy Tranche 3A or 4, I'd vote Typhoon
So correct me if I'm wrong this is a plane advert directed to youtube window shoppers devoid of any news story to attach to. Why just mention 2 planes then. Do pick and choose more if youre pulling them out of the hat anyways.
Poland is making 2 new squadron and Boeing has offered the F-15EX and the Eurofighter Typhoon availability is higher, KF-21 is still few years away and F-16 availability is slow due to F-16V and upgraded kits same as F-15EX
SAAB doesn't have the production capability, Poland is already buying 48 FA50 and F/A-18 super Hornet production
is ending in 2025, that is all the real jet fighter covered.
Poland has the F-16 already, so they are familiar with the F-110 engine, US missiles, and avionics. this is a significant logistic advantage and cost savings, which is always a consideration.. the APG-82 borrows from both the radars of F-22 and f-35, again more savings. unless the typhoons are significantly cheaper, it wouldn't make sense to procure a completely new logistic chain.
Polish F-16 Jastrząb have PW not GE engines.
@@witoldw1539 i thought they had a mix of block 50s and block 52s. Little more research shows as of now they are all 52s so you are correct
The Phoon all Day long
Can't go wrong with either. The financial evaluation should decide
I think the Typhoon is better for its long term potential in Poland's defense industry. The Eagle 2, although excellent, precludes an American monopoly over the Polish Air Force.
"Unparalleled " use of the word 'Unparalleled '.
The cost for the F-15EX Eagle II is approximately $90 million to $ 97 million for each aircraft depending upon production lot, about $7.5 to 14 million more than the newest price for an F-35A.
If Poland is already getting F-35s that cost less, what does the F-15 bring to the mission that justifies the cost ‽ By the way, that is a rhetorical question.
Are you serious with that question? It bring the ONLY platform capable of carrying hypersonic missiles, up to 22 air-air missiles, plus greater range than the competition and a greater climb rate, dive rate and top speed, lower cost of acquisition and maintenance. It’s not even close. F-15X Eagle II for the win
@@jordanmascarenhas7974
I guess you didn’t read the last sentence. I am not disagreeing with you, but the actual answer is relatively complex and the two aircraft are not interchangeable. My take on it is the actual reason is due to some issues with the F-35, the most important one being that for the US military is that the F-15 production slots are available a lot earlier than F-35. There are a number of other issues, but it is not a simplistic this or that is obviously better.
All fighter planes have their strengths and weaknesses. Poland could decide to split the order and buy both planes. This way they could choose which one is best for a particular mission.
The Typhoon should be called The Catfish. That's what it looks like.
Typhoon just because of ease of integration and training due to other nato nation's using the same platform
Since Poland uses the F16 already and has a fully set up supply and maintenance network for the F16 it would be smarter to purchase the F15 considering it streamlines the maintenance effort, the Eurofighter is also a great aircraft but there are large differences between European and American jets
yay new upload
I didn’t know Poland already had F-35’s . If that’s the case the choice is obvious then it’s the F-15 EX .
The EgL was the best ever in its generation and with these upgrades, the typhoon is not even close!
Then you must not be able to do proper research.