Chakotay's Maquis Raider VS Sulu's USS Excelsior - Both Ways - Star Trek Starship Battles
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- #startrek #starships #startrekbridgecommander
Today we are going to put Chakotay's Maquis Raider against the USS Excelsior.
Will the Excelsior be able to deal with the much smaller ship, or will the technological gab be too big?
Played in Star Trek Bridge Commander Kobayshimaru.
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Now if this were a pre dominion war TNG era Excelsior, I think it would have fared far better than an Excelsior using torpedoes, phasers and shields from one hundred years ago..
My point i was going to add. You took a ship that is 2330's and rearmed it to at least modern prewar excelsior 2360's if not to Ambassador specs, and pitted it against 2290's Excelsior which in terms of weaponry is the same as 1701-A *except 2 more shots in front and 2 aft but same TMP torpedoes". Thats why my comment is to put it up against ambassador.
Ohh My !
2:21 “She’ll fly apart!”
“Fly her apart, then!”
That's why Eddington was able to disable the USS Malenche in that one episode "For the Uniform" which was an Excelsior Class Starship!
Too be fair regarding the Malenche. Eddington attacked it with THREE raiders and not just one.
They attacked when the shields were down if I remember correctly
One must remember star fleet weren’t chest thumpers . They upgrade the old ships over the years .
@@haroldchase4120 Upgrades are relative. But for sure the TNG era Excelsiors have Type IX Phaser Banks which though well below Type IX arrays to say nothing of Type Xs, are probably, easily, twice as powerful as Sulu's Excelsior's Type VIII banks.
It's a shame he didn't end the Defiant with all on board going boom with the ship.
Would have been better then going after the other ship.
Captain Sulu, recommend transporting all of our Tribbles to the enemy ship!
Amazing! I never would have believed that the raider could have taken an Excelsior class.
It must have been the firepower, maneuverability, and the human factor.
The Excelsior has it outclassed on every other level.
Edit: Now I wish that they could have salvaged the Raider in Voyager. That thing could have greatly increased their survival.
We also would have had two captains. 😄
Hikaru Suku would have been DEAD and buried long before Chakotay was an itch in his father's trousers Badger!!!!
Not really Leonard McCoy was still around during TNG, and Sulu was a bit younger than him. So it's not hard to believe that he could have done so. >>According to the chronology, Sulu was born in 2237. This would have made him 28 and 32 at the beginning and end of TOS respectively. --- In Star Trek, Captain Hikaru Sulu sponsored Chakotay's entry into Starfleet Academy in 2344 against his father's wishes.
@@HacksignKT The math doesn't work because Chakotay's was 42 when he joined voyager crew in 2373. Doubt Chakotay was 12 or 13 when he joined star fleet. To many different dates out there. The Sulu thing makes for a good story, but not very likely.
@@ace1gl well that's from a trek site...
Emperor Sulu: @2:38 Chakotay: Yeah? Well, your shields are as weak as the ¥. Emperor sulu: AAAAAHHH
Unfortunately, you're thinking of Demora Sulu, not Hikaru Sulu, she was captain of the Enterprise B. Still, cool concept though.
That's what I thought!
This proves why The Maquis were such an effective fighting force. They were small, fast, nimble making them near impossible to lock on to, while packing an outsized punch. And when you factor in Cardassians were thought to be mildly behind the Federation and the Klingon Empires in technology, it was no wonder they were a outright terror for the spoon heads.
The Maquis struck at the right time.They actually weren't doing a lot of damage until the Klingon Invasion when the Cardassians were forced to withdraw most of their forces from the DMZ.
Dam too OP Ty for the video and LLAP!
Christian Slater had the bridge that day
😨Oh. My.. God.. eeh ouch lol . That was crazy Admiral.. like both ships, and never thought would tear the Sulu's ship like that gosh.. I think Sulu spit out his tea.. eeh gosh I always thought was disruptors not phasers on the Maquis well ok nice.. Also. Chakotay had B'Elanna with him so gosh.. And warp 9 wow.. gosh, missed a lot.. Yes Sulu would have thought something, but this was crazy. gosh still Well done Admiral.. I remember my models, not built the Excelsior, but good thing had 2 maquis, hmm cause went way overboard with the paint eeh.. lol !!😊🖖
Its like attacking an Abrahms tank with a hand gun.You simply cant hurt the raider with those old obsolete weapons.
I respectfully disagree with that analogy. I think the opposite is true: a modern gunboat* might have more sophisticated tech, but would you expect it to whip the Bismarck?
Of course not.
*Besides, so many of you good folks keep asserting that the Raiders have superior tech because...why? They were crude ships operated by a hard-scrabble terrorist organisation and, at best, were a rough match for Runabouts.
Even if they did have "Type IX phasers" -- which I'm pretty sure they didn't -- that doesn't mean much in and of itself. The phaser "type" only means that it is more efficient and can potentially handle more power per emitter.
That's great and all, but if you have a small ship with ten type 9 emitters, each rated at, say, 5 terawatts, you can expect a max burst of 50 terawatts, all guns blazing and such.
Then, you've got a ship equipped "only" with Type VIII, which are limited to 2 TW/emitter...but, surprise! This much bigger ship has 250 such emitters; thus, it outguns the little ship ten times over.
Those numbers are purely illustrative, but I hope you take my meaning.
@@augustusclaudiusvenorius6292 So you think standing in front of a tank with a pistol will end well for you?
@@_BLACKSTAR_ If I'm CPT. Miller shooting at that Panzer, near the end of "Saving Private Ryan," yes ;)
(Joking, of course ;).)
As I said, I don't think the modern tank vs. old handgun analogy is at all representative of a Maquis Raider from 2370 even against an Excelsior that's (arguably) 80ish years older. Could you explain why you think Trek tech progressed so radically that a ship which struggles with something as small as Sisko's Runabout would grossly outclass a TMP era battleship?
Naturally, a TNG era ship in a similar weight class would whip a TMP counterpart...but by how much? I see no evidence that TNG or DS9 era ships of comparable size are much more than an order of magnitude more deadly than their sister ships from the 2280s. Note, *comparable size.* The Raider is a pipsqueak. And there's little reason to assume it packs anything like state-of-the-art tech.
Chakotay's raider was a modified Peregrine class courier named the "Val Jean" (should be one word but I don't think Eddington let him borrow his copy of the book)
To be fair, Sulu's helmsman is used to working on a Russian sub. Couldn't expect him to avoid next generation torpedoes, really.
Mac ee raider? MAH.. KEY.. Maquis. 😁. Really enjoy your videos especially these..
Suggestion: Maquis Raider vs Cardassian Galor. Location: Badlands. Chakotay vs Gul Evek. Round Two! Fight!
A Galor Type II should win easily. In "Preemptive Strike" six Raiders were able to disable Gul Evek's ship after a long fight. But a single Raider should be no match. Chakotay was running for his life "Caretaker."
My own counter-point, in Operation Return we see the Galors' one-shotting the Fed Fighters, which use the same ship as the Maquis, with their *secondary* phaser banks. It will be hard to balance things. To have a chance the Val Jean needs more torpedoes.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 Prince Johano, report to your Throne Room! 😉
Torres said the Val Jean's weapons couldn't even "dent" Evek's ship's shields, and the Val Jean was considerably larger than a typical Maquis Raider.
I find it unlikely that Evek's Galor had shields much more than 10x stronger than the first flight Excelsiors; ergo, the Val Jean would still fare very poorly against Sulu's ship which, in turn, would mean your standard Raider would perform even worse.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold", right Retro? 😁
This is a perfect example of the fan programmers not getting this right. In no known Universe is a Maqui Raider going to hold up under a 23rd Century Starship in prolonged combat. There is a tech difference, but not as large as you would suppose not as overwhelming as shown here. In Voyager, when we first meet Chakotay, Tuvok and B'elanna in their Raider, they are taking a beating at the hand of a single Keldon, which are probably some of the Alpha Quadrant's weakest capital ships. In DS9 Dominion War, a lone Klingon Bird Of Prey was terrorizing one of these poor ships, and that was before they called in the Vor'cha, which was frankly overkill. Even the Defiant jumping in the fight couldn't save the Keldon, as she had taken too much damage from the Bird Of Prey to be saved by then.
So with that said, if Maqui raiders often were intercepted and taken out by Keldon's, I know for a fact a vessel with what B'elanna sarcastically told Chakotay "How do I get creative with an 39 year old REBUILT engine" ain't gonna be a threat for too long due to what superior tech phasers (which again according to B'elanna didn't put a dent in the Keldon's shields) and MICRO torpedos it had. That's right, it's clear whoever programmed this used full size starfleet torps on the raider, and that's why they hurt so much. You need to cut the damage output to 20% maybe 30% of the lowest rated Starship TNG torpedoes in the game to be accurate. Phasers can be TNG but should be even weaker than a Runabout, say at about 40% each bank. When both are used, it will reach 80% of a Runabout's strength, but due to inferior powerplant, cannot maintain the beam nearly the length of a Runabout.
Shield output also weaker than a Runabout by at least 1/2. Then put it up against the OG Excelsior. No way that' ship doesn't take damage even from a TMP phaser array..From a freaking Battleship level one too.
Be interesting to see it against a standard TNG Excelsior Class like U.S.S. Hood or Cairo
The original Excelsior is such a pretty ship. The Enterprise-B/Lakota model just looks awkward with all the extra bits glued on.
Good fight though. I wonder if Chakotays spirit guides taught him how to make the photons extra spicy???
Nice to see the NX configuration for the Excelsior. I LOVE that version of the ship.
Yup the Maquis ships are powerful. However Chakotay's ship was no match for a Cardassian Galore.
That’s a very good point, forgot about the Galor chase. To be honest, I was really hoping the Excelsior would win! 🖖
A squadron of half a dozen Maquis ships were able to disable Gul Evek's Galor Type II in the TNG episode "Journey's End." They were using photon torpedoes though. Three disabled the USS Milice, an Excelsior Class starship.
I love these space battles. I would love to see a Danube Class Runabout vs the Delta Flyer. That would be a good battle. I would definitely see the Delta Fiyer winning because of the Borg enhancements. Keep up the good work.
There is something off with those Maquis phasers. Those things only have Type VII Phasers. Excelsior is from the TMP era but those Type VIIs shouldn't do much against their shields. The photons are the game changer.
Seems kinda silly that Chakotay's ship even has weapons, seeing how it couldn't even beat a single Cardassian failure. I mean Galor.
"How are you supposed to hit this thing?" Maybe that's the point haha.
I also would like to see a Gul Evek vs. Chakotay rematch. Not sure if there are any proper Galor Type II mods yet, but for comparisons sake, we have some examples. Three Maquis Raiders disables the USS Maliche, an Excelsior Class starship in "For the Uniform." However, Eddington had an edge with a computer virus. In "Preemptive Strike" Gul Evek's Galor Type II is disabled after a long battle with what appears to be at least half a dozen Maquis Raiders armed with Photon Torpedoes. So it seems like 3-4 Raiders might be a decent match against a pre-War late 2360s Galor Type II.
Then again, the Dominion War Galors were one-shot killing the same Federation Fighters the Maquis use with their secondary disruptors. Chakotay's Val Jean had some serious plot armor to tank a hit from Evek's heavy SWD cannon.
5:46 Sulu would only encounter the USS Lakota in another quantum reality
Chance are sulu would with drawl and seek enough help to redress the balance of fire power and protection. That would be the wise thing to do. Their scanners would show how powerful the enemy weapons are
That Maquis Raider is quite overpowered compared to the old Constitution and Excelsior. As I saw that you chose the Lakota instead, I thought: "Yeah. Chakotay is toast after that. Quantum torpedoes are too much for that ship to take". As a request, I'd like to see a fight of a Danube Class against the Delta Flyer. I think these two shuttlecraft are quite close in pure combat skill. Both have torpedo launchers and are very maneuverable. It's like: Which series has the better shuttlecraft?
I would assume the Delta Flyer is more capable. They have enhanced their systems with borg tech and all the fancy stuff. Custom build thing.
@@Gentleman...Driver The Delta Fyler is a slightly newer design. I admit that. But I still think, it's a quite even match. Maybe a Danube Class Dominion War refit with Quantum torpedoes would be a nice idea.
No, the raider isn't overpowered. Maquis raiders were very durable ships on screen, and armed with type 8 phasers and photon torpedoes they would have swiftly taken down old 22nd/23rd century ships.
@@ReneMKW We have never seen runabouts firing quantum torpedoes. It was also mentioned that they are using micro photon torpedoes. So a much smaller type of torpedo probably. The Delta Flyer also had gravimetric (borg) torpedoes. 😀This is really a nerdy conversation, but I like it.
@@Gentleman...Driver If I recall correctly, Seven installed some sort of photonic missiles with borg technology enhancements on the original Delta Flyer. But these were never used again later. And I guess the Flyer has micro torpedoes, too. Where should they store all these big (normal) torpedoes? Suspended in a trnsport buffer? Unlikely. In later episodes you always see the standard photon torpedo if the Flyer uses one.
I would like to see 5 TWoK Miranda against One Dominion war variant Nebula .
I can't remember if this has been done but how about we find out how many TNG shuttlecraft will it take to destroy the Enterprise D. Connected or separated both configurations and both ways would be interesting. I do believe that there are some shuttle classes that have photon capabilities. P.S. Love your videos and I hope your graphics card can handle this request haha.
Poor Zulu. 😢 Retro Badger is evil 😮
I'd like to see Sulu and kirk vs Picard and the Enterprise D
Love this "advanced small ship vs obsolete bigger ship" theme where the advanced ship still fares better, it's far more realistic and to my liking than "for balance reasons a scout will never defeat a battleship" some games and mods do.
Holy torpedo tracking, Batman. Like, none of the Excelsior's or Enterprise's torpedos tracked onto the target and hit. Not sure if that would have made much of a difference or anything... but, dang. Oh, well. Captain Benteen (Leah Brahms' twin???) saved the day!!! Huzzah!
How about a maquis raider and an Intrepid against a Yeager class ship.
Sulu, and George Takei are two of my favorite people. Not politically, artists are all thumbs when it comes to anything practical.
The Maquis need supplies so they go full Robin Hood against the one with the deepest pockets. But can 10 Maquis Raiders make off with the GRAND NAGUS’s latinum???
Oh my........... does that mean they don't have aft torpedo's anymore if they do have?!
No warp engine?
Well seeing as the Lakota dominion war refit could easily destroy Sisko's defiant its no surprise it destroyed that criminal's ship.
As for Sulu and Kirk's ship losing we are talking about TNG era tech vs. Original series movie era tech.
It's no wonder the criminals won.
The game had the Maquis raider way over powered on photon torpedoes, when at best, it should have had only a few at most, more realistically for its tiny size.
Retro
You should do the excelsior VS the Excelsior refit
I think the size and power differential is far too staggering for the Maquis to ever overcome. And besides, who says the Maquis ship has significantly more advanced tech, anyway? They were a ragtag group that struggled to cobble together ships which weren't much (if at all) superior to Danube-class Runabouts.
Captain Keogh thought of the Maquis vessels as "lightly armed shuttlecraft", though I imagine he was referring to the fighters and not the raiders, which should've been much stronger. Even so, an old cruiser should still duff them up.
Like a few other ships that we couldn't care to mention, the raider in _Val Jean_ guise could take a fair amount of punishment from Gul Evek's Galor, no doubt thanks to a mixture of B'Elanna Torres's ingenuity and plot armour.
Torpedoes track better when you increase sensors.
Just saying! 🙃
Those torpedoes are overpowered, they shouldn’t have done that much damage to the Lakota’s shields
Love the Excelsior class and her variants Wabi-sabi design style she is beautiful 😊...great as all ways RB 😀
How about the Cardassian(sp) ships(predominon war refit) vs. the USS Phoenix?
I would have loved to have seen that fight instead of just a couple of icons on the D's monitors.
Plays make a video warbird versus Galaxy class but in original Bridge Commander it will be cool to see How you handle original Bridge Commander
and these torpeodes on the federation/maquis raider are micro torpedoes...
They use both micro and regular photons, though with very limited numbers.
Chakotay vs cpt Garrett
There needs to be a Maquis class Raider transport ship kind of along the lines of the delta class flyer . Everything the marquis wanted to design a transport ship if they were still marquis.
Then again this is sulu. Sulu would proabbly cheat somehow. He was known to bend the rules.
Excelsior under Sulu would have been around 2292-ish. The Maquis raider, even with more modern weapons, I don't think has the same power output, so the fight should have been harder for the raider.
That's my 2 dilithium pieces.
I completely agree buddy. The Maquis raider is too powerful. I think it only had micro torpedoes. Look at how it struggled with the Galor in voyager as well. I’m hoping to find a more canon version. I think the excelsior would have won. 🖖
you know RBG is in trouble when he says I think..... IMO..... BTW ,if Sulu got Cdr Chakotay in StarFleet he was retired and not on the Excelsior... Maybe Excelsior 2.0, rumor has it....TOS to Next Gen/ DS9/Yovager 80 plus years apart... on a side not, before Star Trek Hidden Evil was released to public, i was a Beta Tester... i had cheat codes and it played good... 25 yrs ago...
its stupid to assume the excelsior would have never gotten weapons upgrades so of course its gonneloose if its still using movie era weapons
Hmmmmm... 🤔 The Raider, if i remember wasn't very big, and i thought 🤔 they had the less powerful Micro- Torpedoes...
Yes, I’m beginning to think it’s a wee bit over powered. I doubt it had that many torpedoes as well. I think the excelsior would have been able to shrug it off in reality 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming I believe they were about the same size as a Runabout class Shuttle....
Phaser dont work as well when a tractor is locked look at the defiant tow that vorcha that was trying to kill them.
if the proxima got its arse handed to it by the raider, then excelsior stands no chance
No way a maquis raider holds its own against an excelsior class
Maybe try it with the commissioned Excelsior and not the prototype/experimental version? Maybe that would make a difference....
Well spotted 😉. I didn’t have the model to hand whilst making the video 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming it's the aft bit just behind the shuttle bay and the single impulse deflection crystal that gives it away. 😀
Is it me or does the raider look a little like a klingon bird of prey...
How good are the raiders against the galore class as that's what marquis used to fight but they hit and run a lot so guessing galore stronger. You know what to do retro
Marquis Raider vs Defiant?
How about 3 raiders vs 1 defiant.....
The movie era photons are so slow and inaccurate.
That seems a little unbalanced. I'm not buying phasers having little effect.
Something isn’t balanced right. I’m gonna go with “mmno…” on this one.
I'm just curious how such a small ship is carrying 60 torpedoes?
From what people have said, they are most likely micro-torpedoes. Still, 60 is a bit of a stretch 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming if they are micro-torpedoes then they shouldn't have that much kick. If we go by the DS9 tech manual then they should be 13.3 cm long so they couldn't carry that much anti-matter. They were designed for runabouts and are for anti shuttle combat. These were acting like full sized torpedoes against the Excelsior.
That thing was badly overpowered.
If a connie can survive hits from the doomsday machine, it can beat this crap
This stupid thing was no match for a Gaylor class.