The Last Jedi: Five Years Later
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- Опубликовано: 19 сен 2024
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5 yrs later and the franchise hasnt healed fully yet
What scares me is that it may never…
What’s worse is that it has actually declined. Mando and Andor were nice, but a handful of good in a sea of bad is not enough.
It never will
@@mattiasfaust2746 I said it once I’ll say it again, the season 2 finale of the mandalorian united the fan base in a way the sequel trilogy could only dream of.
hasn't healed at all
It was impossible for me to even imagine that my, at the time, 35 year connection to the Star Wars universe could be irreparably damaged in some way. The Last Jedi made it possible.
So sad to see this as the end timeline for star wars
We deserve monetary retribution for the emotional devastation this movie unleashed on us dedicated fans!
Maybe they should get J.J. back to reset the timeline.
@@deepashtray5605 Everyone but J.J.
Yeah I'm not sure about Thor's take here. I know he's ever the diplomat in the fan base, but elements of a movie or story can be *objectively* bad. Breaking pre-established rules and lore set for the universe with inconsistencies is bad. Attempting to deconstruct a story or universe mid trilogy is bad. Having characters re-tread development, or having them behave completely counter to previous characterization without a catalyst, is bad. These are objective statements.
What the sequels didn’t understand is that the original six were about ANAKIN and his descent into evil, before redeeming himself by saving his son.
By not having Anakin in the sequels, and having Palpatine come back, it completely undermines his arc, and thus the SIX films…
It really does ruin the story of the Prequels and Originals
Facts
Yep. Should have been about anakin's grand children and the rise of the new republic.
Merchandising and Disney world doesn't lie. This movie is not that popular. It damaged the value of the franchise.
It stopped development of the EU which *was* good.
I don't consider it canon. I haven't spent a dime on star wars for 5 years. I spent about $100 per year from 1978 to 2017.
@@chasehedges6775 not just the story, but every action taken and sacrifice made by those Characters. And the underlying message and many basic principles of the start wars universe.
I was fine with Palpatine...but not in person. I remember when the trailer dropped, I thought he would just be in flashbacks or like a disembodied spirit influencing Kylo or something. Throwing him in was just a hail mary.
Only seen it once in theatres. Hated it so much that I vowed I'll never rewatch it. I've actually forgotten the movie now and it feels so good 😂
Same. ✌😕
Me too. 😎👍
Yep 🤣👏👏👏
I remember 5 min in, my GF was like, this is Star Wars??? Luke milking the lock ness monster…
I tried to give it an extra chance once. I didn't even make it to the B17s. Lol
I think that was the first time I've ever felt completely empty and unfulfilled after watching a movie, let alone a Star Wars movie. It was like I paid $15 to sit in a room for 2 and a half hours, surrounded by delicious food, having someone slap me every time I reached for something and then they threw that particular item in the trash instead, and I only left after everything was thrown away in the vain hope I'd be able to eat something.
Just like Luke throwing Anakin’s lightsaber over his shoulder off a cliff.
Luke: “Oh, you (the audience) thought I was going to ignite this and have something profound to say to Rey?”
*Throws lightsaber*
Luke: “eXpEcTaTiOnS sUbVeRtEd bitches!”
What’s more cringy about this scene is I think Ruin johnson was either trying to get a laugh or a shocked gasp out of the audience. Instead, he just got a lot of angry and confused faces 🤨😡
@@eddardstark6554 I don't get defenders of the lightsaber toss. It was clearly meant to subvert expectations and/or be played as a joke. Regardless of what you did to Luke, that's not how this scene should play out. The worst part about broken Luke is half the time he's not even taken seriously. the real way to toss the lightsaber would be dramatic and sad, not trying to be a joke
@@officialmonarchmusic Its executed the way it is so people will talk about it forever. I sometimes randomly think about tossing things over my shoulder like Luke.
@@officialmonarchmusic Exactly! Well said. Honestly though, the whole movie is like this in so many ways!
@@virgogaming6488 So Luke clenching his hands as he takes the lightsaber, turning around as he shows emotion, and hurling the lightsaber away wouldn't be as good as him casually tossing it over his shoulder for a joke
The biggest disappointment with this movie is that they had a full year to address the death of Carrie Fisher to salvage the overall trilogy and what would become Episode IX, and did nothing. Unlike every other Disney Star Wars movie that suffered from production problems or studio interference, Rian Johnson had zero interference and received full support to make "HIS VISION" which ended the film with no main villain, Luke dead, Leia effectively dead, and absolutely nothing to build upon for the third part of the trilogy, to the point where .... somehow Palpatine returned.
Of all the Star Wars movies that "needed" executive meddling, it was this one. But instead of repairing the flagship film series, Rogue One and Solo got all the meddling. Episode IX was dead before they even started production.
The entire sequel trilogy as a whole was dead before they even started production. There was no actual story being told. They were just cashing in.
@@bmcfonzie Yeah, The Force Awakens tends to be overlooked, since it is easily the best one of the 3 Sequels, but that one was Soo predictable and derivative, I knew what was going to happen in the first 15 min.
Thank you for your sacrifice, Thor. Watching this again so we don't have to
I still don’t understand why Disney treated Luke the way they did…the whole “subvert expectations” doesn’t resonate with me.
Disney didn't do that, Rian Johnson did.
@@vetarlittorf1807 And Disney let him do it.
kk DID
@@crossfire34 Disney doesn't tell Lucasfilm's directors what to do.
It’s called communist subversion destroy the things that your society holds dear and replace them this was always the plan Hollywood hates people like George Lucas a real nerd and one of us. It’s always been us vs them pick a side
There is only 1 scene in TLJ which I think is great.
The scene with Rey on the rock and Luke explaining the force to her.
I love this scene.
It shows what could have been if Luke really had trained Rey, how the relationship between them could have been.
When he tickled her palm? 😂
The thing with the little branch really made me laugh. Daisy' s reaction was true comedy.
I was more thinking about the scene where Luke explains the force.
Yeah, they could have formed a really good bond and her learning and training in the Force. Rey already being powerful might have worked had they shown her not knowing how to handle it and Luke teaching her how to control it. Rey could have had a good story of personal growth and development and overcoming her obstacles to become a capable female Jedi Knight but nope, they didn't show any of that and that makes me sad.
I can't believe Andor is greater than that entire trilogy.
That doesn't really speak well of andor, not hard to be better than this, and anything it is, isn't necessarily good because of it. It's just better than the worst. How does that make it good?
@@draconianemanations2785 He's making the point that a TV show that no one was really looking forward to that much turned out to be better than a highly-anticipated tentpole trilogy of blockbuster films. I guess nuance isn't your strong point.
@@christophernuzzi2780 oh I get it, I just think the show sucks, and the backdrop of everything else Star Wars sucking so bad doesn't make it look any better to me. Maybe to you and a few others, but not to me. So it's better crap than the other crap. Still crap. Imo anyways. Being better than some of the worst possible examples of Star Wars storytelling.. isn't really saying much. Hard not to be.
I taken shits better then the Disney Trilogy.
@@draconianemanations2785 Idk how you can feel that way. That show is the best show I've watched in years.
I remember how much in denial I was after seeing this movie. It was so jarring to go from my favorite theater experience (Rogue One’s Vader hallway sequence) to my least favorite (The entirety of Episode 8) in the span of a year. It took me forever to come to the conclusion that I just didn’t like a Star Wars movie, which was completely heartbreaking to young teenage me. I still haven’t gotten over it.
It bothered me as well until i realized that TLJ isn’t Star Wars. It didn’t want to be, wastes a ton of time showing how its not Star Wars, and is incompatible with every other movie on so many levels that the only conclusion is that its objectively not Star Wars, just a sci fi movie that has the wrong title and character names.
Agreed.
I side with ‘So Uncivilised’ on this one; it is and anti-trilogy, and this one in particular was deliberately anti-StarWars.
That’s why I don’t loose sleep on it. As far as storyline and arc are concerned, these movies don’t exist.
And all the live action we are getting is a way to retcon the worst bits.😁
fr it had to sit with me for a while before i even realized i didn’t like it
Fr
I feel ya on the “denial” thing. 😞 I thought I liked it at first, but as I analyzed it….I’ve realized it’s a very problematic film. I absolutely hate it.
I’m happy for people who got something out of it, though. 🤷♂️
I saw tlj in theater with my mom and she cursed the second time I have ever herd her say a curs word in 35 years about what they did with Luke. Tried to watch it with my dad later on as he wanted to see if it was as bad as everyone said it was and we just sat back and complained about how bad it was until we turned it off halfway through and watched a new hope to reset our brains
I'll never forget the despair I felt as the hopeful Star Wars theme came on and the credits rolled. I think the emotional experience is something people don't talk about a lot and why it's so hated. People can argue back and forth about the plot holes and character arcs all day, but in the end... there's just no movie that's made me feel such a profoundly negative emotion. I could tell by the music and way the characters were talking that I was supposed to be feeling hopeful and excited about the future, but I felt absolute despair like I was watching someone I loved die, for nothing.
Completely agree. I've also never had such negative feelings come on after just watching a movie. Those feelings lasted a very long time too. I just try not to think about it, but if this abomination of a film comes up in conversation, I have to throw in my 2 cents. Just awful. Can't believe it was greenlit
You pretty much nailed it.
Rian likes his themes and messages, and usually that works for him. Every other one of his movies has the exact same issues that TLJ has: Plot conveniences, inconsistencies, the same type of comedy, the same explicit way of explaining the theme, characters becoming stupid for the sake of progressing the plot, etc. Yes, even highly praised movies like Knives Out.
But his movies, while failing to challenge people in the intellectual aspect, still manage to strongly resonate with them in the emotional aspect, because his messages are always things people in general agree with, and his characters tend to be charismatic and likeable (while not necessarily being complex). That's why his movies work almost universally...except The Last Jedi.
The reason why TLJ was the one Rian Johnson movie that was divisive was not because it was better or worse than his other movies, it was because it was a Star Wars movie.
I'm not saying that Star Wars needs to be intelligent, or that Rian Johnson is necessarily a bad writer. I'm just saying that since he doesn't care about making a consistent and logical story, and he only cares about themes that emotionally resonate with people, he's never fully gonna achieve connecting with SW fans, because to do that, he'll have to create something logically consistent with the one thing Star Wars fans are emotionally attached to: The rest of the franchise. And that's something Rian Johnson cannot do.
Basically, Rian Johnson is a one-trick pony, but that trick doesn't fully work with Star Wars. He would need to get out of his comfort zone, and start worrying about consistency and world building to make it work...Which is funny, since "getting out of its comfort zone" is the one thing people said he did for Star Wars.
Ironic, isn't it?
Well spoken! I started to really appreciate the movie once I accept that there are some inconsistency issues. I know not everyone can overlook the flaws but I can, and ended up loving this one as time goes by cuz the message really stuck to my heart.
TFA has same problems with being intelligent and consistent, and lacking world-building, but it's not controversial, why?
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I think it is, it's just that TLJ overshadows it. TFA is such a shallow, hollow cash grab of a film, I can almost not resent RJ for wanting to include some actual meaning in his episode. Hard to build something truly grand upon such weak foundations, to be sure.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о That's a good point. And I think the reason for that is the presentation.
TFA was friendly towards fans. When it broke rules, it did it with fanservice, or as a mystery that could be solved later.
"Rey is really powerful with the Force with no training...but maybe this will be explained in the next movie!"
"After Return of the Jedi, Han Solo shouldn't be a smuggler anymore...but you liked it when Han was a smuggler in A New Hope and Empire, right? Please like me!"
Meanwhile, TLJ didn't help its case by being inconsistent while simultaneously making you feel like an idiot for caring about in-universe rules. It made the flaws more obvious, and didn't give any room for something to be fixed later.
"You think Luke is in this island for a reason consistent with his character? Nope! Fuck this lightsaber."
"You think Snoke is an important character that will explain inconsistencies with Anakin's prophecy and create some world building? Nope! He's just some guy and he's dead now"
Basically, TFA was more a promise than a movie. It was basically saying "yes, some things here are very bad, but there are still more movies coming", and then TLJ just said "I'm not fixing any of the issues and I'm creating even more, fuck you".
@@chungyang9925 the message really didn't stuck to my heart at all with so much contradiction and inconsistency
I've only been able to watch this twice. Every time I think about it I realize even more lore or logic is broken for no reason. It's like someone went on a mission to mess up the canon as much as possible in a single movie.
That's exactly what they did. Realizing that, I suppose, is step one. Step two is puzzling over why. I could offer my own speculation, but I think it's all rather obvious these days and it's better if people draw their own conclusions. Hint: it's politically motivated. ✌🐸
Check out ‘So Uncivilised’ channel.
He makes it make perfect sense, and then you can properly dismiss it and never give it another thought!!😁
it's not just the lore. it's (for me) seeing my childhood hero dragged through the mud. I don't even mean the "character assassination." but that scene where he's milking a space lizard and sucking the warm slop all over his face. then he looks into the camera with this spiteful scowl. that right there was like a slap in the face. wtf is going on here? it's cool that you make a movie I don't like, but this is just rubbing my nose in it. iunno. viscerally dislike that movie.
@@daneg It was to show how depressed Luke had become, how far he'd fallen from grace in his own eyes.
@@virgogaming6488 I really don't need explanation of themes and motifs for a SW movie. Michael Bay's movies have scenes in them that are supposed to evoke empathy and so forth all the time. it doesn't make them any less garbage. the scene's intent has literally nothing to do with how it affected me, and that effect is what I commented on. 😉
100%, you nailed it with the “profound with not for” line. Rian Johnson’s whole MO is taking a genre and trying to show he’s the smartest guy in the room with it. Here he was given the genre “Star Wars” and made something that looked like Star Wars, sounded like Star Wars, was called Star Wars, but was philosophically opposed to Star Wars. On it’s own, it isn’t bad, but as the middle component of a new Star Wars trilogy and the 8th installment in a 9 episode saga, it truly was. It is a contained, self-important story playing with some Star Wars ideas, jettisoning others, and inventing lesser ones to fit and fill his personalized take on the story. People hate the movie because it so obviously reeks of that level of hubris, without ever demonstrating a respect to the material that might have endeared the audience to his changes. At very least he broke the “Promises, Progress, Payoff” foundations of storytelling with hilarious abandonment, as if only he were in on the joke of how flippant he could handle the universe while still turning out a tentpole film. Well, good job Rian, nicely down, now where the hell is our 2nd Star Wars film?
What later became clear is Kathleen Kennedy was too little of an actual Star Wars fan to tell the difference, and saw all the hallmark iconography of a Star Wars film and said, “yep, we got a winner.” Mark Hamill who was the only one with an understanding of Star Wars and whose input was damn clairvoyant, was silenced because Rain Johnson is first and foremost a Rian Johnson fan, and Kathleen Kennedy was first and foremost an executive type producer-not a creative type-and yet for all that is worth, failed to produce a plan they could even execute.
Five years later and it's still the only Star Wars movie that I haven't watched more than once.
I didnt even make it to the second half of the film, I walked out of the theater.
You watched rise of skywalker twice? Why?
I was going to say "same," but when I thought about it, I only watched RoS once (it's just dumb) and Solo...which I didn't hate or anything. I thought making Maul's survival official in the movies was dumb and a massive undercutting of one of the better moment from the Prequels. but the movie itself wasn't bothersome even if it wasn't very compelling for me. TLJ and RoS though. eh. I don't ever need to see those again. 1. insulting, 2. nonsensical.
@@ryanb9749 because I know deep down some TLJ stans feel what we felt with TROS and that shit sustains me
@@andresu8167 I would've done the same but was there with a friend.
I remember asking myself as I was leaving the theater, “did i like that?”
I left the theater after the second viewing genuinely angry at what they had done. I still havent seen episode 9
Youre not missing anything. If you hated 8, 9 would destroy your soul.
I say 8 via pirate ship with friends. Hated it, we got mad a few times through out the movie. We decided to watch episode 9 as a comedy via the seas again. TROS is probably the worst movie I've ever seen. Honestly, it's so stupid, it's rushed. It's just action, action, coincidence followed by more coincidences & stupid action. It's absolutely atrocious. I still blame JJ more than Rian (even before Ep 9 was released) for fucking up these movies with his stupid setup in ep7
I watched the movie a total of three times, I’ll admit: Twice in theatres, a third time on BluRay right before TROS came out.
After the first time I just felt numb and confused.
After the second time, and I went into it knowing what to expect, my consensus was: „I get what they were trying to do. It’s just that I hate it.“
The third time I was actively annoyed by a movie that was deliberately making fun of me, a fan who tries to care, who is trying to get invested. It’s like it was saying: This is why you were wrong for liking Star Wars. This is why this Movie is superior to the flawed movies you grew up with.
Haven’t watched it since, nor do I plan to.
I want to remember Luke Skywalker as a hero of the new republic, one of the founders of new Jedi order, and first of all, the best husband and father.
It's best for us to erase this from memory. In my mind, the franchise ended in EP6 and everything is better.
Just like superman ... oh wait supermsn is boring, better make him evil
@@motor4X4kombat i don't think so.
@@Skywalker20239 then why the fuck making superman evil is fun? Isn't that a bigger travesty than making luke a bitter old man?
@@motor4X4kombat Evil superman is lame. Luke Skywalker saved Darth Vader from the dark side. Luke will never tried to kill his nephew. Luke will tried to teach Ben how not turn to the dark side. Luke always been a living reminder what a Jedi Knight is, he even helped Mara Jade became a Jedi Knight.
I still whole heartedly believe that Ruin starwars Johnson had a secret hatred of the franchise and took the job just so he could write the worst movie in cinematic history just to shit on starwars fans
What I suspect about people who don't worry about lore at all is that they either don't understand the degree to which we do or don't believe we really do and think we're just using it as a excuse to complain and that we must really be upset about something else. Maybe it's just that they've never personally found a piece of media or art that mattered all that much to them. When people like that end up making the creative decisions and it leads to misfires, I'm not sure they always understand what they did wrong even when we tell them, which can make them bitter and defensive.
As it stands right now, I can't help but feel like it's a choice between a continuity that exists mostly in books where after ROTJ Luke Skywalker's life gets a little convoluted and silly but he's also able to realize the potential that was promised in the original movies while his friends and The Force are with him.
..or one where he goes downhill and dies alone on a rock.
Or the third option where ROTJ is just The End of the story.
I‘m fine with the Movies, but the post-ROTJ EU is a fascinating what-if of what did happen after „Happily ever after“. And for all the weird shit that went down, the EU absolutely did many things right, including Luke rebuilding the Jedi Order in a new, improved fashion.
Since you know me to a fair degree, and probably heard me mention before on Discord that I consider TLJ an "okay" film, I figured I could toss my helmet in the ring and make my personal case for my opinion. I enjoyed watching "hate" and deconstructive videos about TLJ back in the day just because they were entertaining, but they never really insulted my feelings, and I maintain my feelings to this day. So this is what I have to say:
My favorite parts of Star Wars has been the video games, namely KOTOR and KOTOR 2, along with Jedi Fallen Order. As fans may know, the KOTOR games developed a piece of lore-building where 2 Force-Sensitive beings could become attached unknowingly or accidentally due to Fate, and that it could lead to interesting character dynamics between them. I'm a big fan of the Force Bonds between Revan and Bastilla, and between Meetra and Kreia. One is a bond that leads to romance, the other just leads to a very complex mentor-apprentice connection. But Force Bonds were consigned to Legends lore, and we never saw it anywhere else in the films. So when Rian Johnson hints at a Force Bond between Kylo and Rey, that got me super excited. It gave me expectations of possibly a romance between them like Revan and Bastilla, or some sort of unique addition to the Prophecy of Balance to the Force, that they would have to team up to fight a bigger threat. I thought this was a wonderful addition to the world of Star Wars. Regardless of anything else in that movie, this single aspect got me so interested in the film, I went on youtube to find people to talk about it. Instead, I found a lot of people criticizing the film (albeit fairly), and that's what actually led me to finding your channel. Funny how things turn out!
The Rise of Skywalker unfortunately undid all my love for the Force Bond when JJ Abrams made it a phenomenon possible only once ever, the Force Dyad, and it didn't have the same function of dependence as the Force Bonds in KOTOR. I was hoping Rey would get mortally wounded the moment she stabbed Kylo, making her realize they needed each other for something bigger. So, all that dampened all my excitement for the trilogy at large, since we weren't going to get anything close to KOTOR. That's all I wanted to say about that.
There are many interesting ideas posed by all the ST movies but none of them are picked up and taken properly.
Except not only would a romance between those characters not work but you don’t understand what balance means. Balance is not Sith.
@@emberfist8347 canonical Revan/Bastilla story didn't support Jedi-Sith blend, it became a mutual redemption story instead.
The sequel trilogy muddles up the lore so much I didn't question what was happening in Rise of Skywalker, it didn't matter at that point what was playing on the big screen.
That's a fascinating take, my love of Kotor and Kotor 2 is why I loathe this movie.
I can’t believe it’s been five years since the worst theater experience of my life.
Legit was put off by the subversions, then Leia gets blown off into space, and magically lives and gets back to a ship. That was when I became utterly flabbergasted, it was the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen, makes the prequels look tame by comparison.
Seems more like 20.
I walked out angry.
Well almost but led to ROS which was THE worst SW film ever. Weird that SW now includes a brilliant series like Andor.
@@aishaalamoudi599 who exactly are you talking to? You responded to my comment, but I think you were responding to what I said
I've listened to Mauler's videos on it more than I've seen the film. I'm satisfied.
Well what makes the movie particularly bad is that Mauler can make such detailed videos and still no go over problem with the film. It is a gift that keeps on giving.
GhostLink92 His videos are the only worthwhile thing that came from TLJ. As an aspiring writer, hearing his arguments and references makes me work harder to avoid pulling a TLJ(or Doctor Strange 2) in writing absolute garbage.
It’s still really bad even after having five years to reflect on it.
Thursday, December 14th, 8:00PM, the first showing of 'TLJ'. I was there. First SW premiere NOT sold out, which struck me odd. Within 15 minutes of this film people had already walked out. The couple next to me kept asking aloud, "WTF?!?", every two minutes, which was exactly how I felt. At the Leia Poppins scene, they walked out, cursing. There was an uproar when Luke faded into the wind. More people walked out. At the end only about five patrons started clapping, quickly realized no one else was, and immediately stopped. Some guy called out, "Glad YOU enjoyed it!" The grumbling, the silence, the shock on people's faces, that was the absolute WORST cinema experience I've ever had. I stayed until the credits ended and when I walked past the manager's office on the way out, many people were asking for refunds. The first words out of my mouth at the end were, "I don't give a flying fuck what happens in part nine now." Just glad I didn't pay for my ticket.
Saw it on a plane and people still walked out
You might have no ill will towards people who like TLJ , but as a prequel defender who used to point out and laugh at the bad parts of those movies while still liking them, I can honestly say I'm really starting to hate sequel defenders as they arrogantly resort to gaslighting/lying to justify their opinions instead of empathizing with others who differ. Its shitty behavior by the real 'toxic' part of the fanbase.
Uh. No. The toxic part of the fan base are those that say women shouldnt be involved in star wars. You can like or dislike whatever you want. When people say their biggest problem is that Luke wasnt in God-mode Im gonna push back and it isnt gaslighting.
@@stevebreedlove9760 I've never heard anyone say that. That's the type of strawman lying BS Im talking about. Either you were talking to a 12 yr old or a troll. Or you're just piggybacking off of lying strawman arguments.
@@stevebreedlove9760 No one is saying that though, perhaps you mean those that wanted better written female characters, and Luke not being a totally different character.
Absolute dumpster fire after 5 years
It's the film that made me lose faith in the franchise, it was just that bad. I pretty much consider the Sequels apocryphal, only 1-6 are canon, plus Clone Wars, I can care less about what they do with it now.
"For many, the most important and hardest thing this trilogy had to do was justify its own existence."
Correct. I don't hear others talking about this enough. But this is the most fundamental issue of the sequel triology. Not only did it not justify its own existence, it didn't even try to do so.
And TFA failed to do that
There is NO WAY that Luke would sit around moping while his sister and friends fight for their lives. George Lucas had a vision, but Disney (and the directors it hired) didn't give a damn. They wanted to do THEIR version of the story and knew that people would pay to see it no matter what. They wound up with the kind of movie where people walk out and say "well...... the special effects were good."
The vision George Lucas has of Luke being a hermit from his 2012 treatments, ala Apocalypse Now?
@@HisFlynessSTU2 ALLEGEDLY. Even if that was true, it wasn’t for the same reason.
It wasn’t even Rian who established Luke in exile in the trilogy, it was JJ. Rian just took it and gave it an explanation that didn’t make sense
First JJ made the decision the luke would go into hiding, not Ryan. So if you’re pissed at someone for luke hiding be pissed at JJ
Second I agree that not having a vision for the sequels was their biggest flaw. They don’t tell one cohesive story they tell 3 stories that are fighting with each other.
Third mystery boxes ruined the sequels. Fans decided what they wanted the answers to those mysteries to be, but the film makers had different answers that the fans refuse to accept.
@@harrambou9468 No JJ implied that Luke was trying to find some trump card in the first Jedi Temple. The script had Luke leviatating rocks when Rey found him.
The effects aren’t even good. The disappearing knife for one. And Yoda’s puppet is off.
I remember when my stepdad and I went to see TLJ in theaters, he fell asleep during the movie. True story. 🙃
And I think 3 years later, when I tried to rewatch it on Disney+, I was only able to get to the scene where Leia demoted Poe before I had to tap out from frustration. 😅
For Me,It Was When Leia flew through space,like superwoman
I fall asleep in the theater all the time. Are you sure it wasnt the pitchers of beer, and not the movie?
@@stevebreedlove9760 lol he doesn't drink, but I suppose to be fair it was late that evening and he is like 60+ years old.
But that misses the point; if you fall asleep during a STAR WARS movie, I think that's a real bad sign about the movie's quality and how engaging it is.
@@TurnedAgainstMe66 Ah yes, the infamous Leia Poppins. 😬 At least nobody, to my knowledge, has referenced Plo Koon surviving in space during the Malevolence arc to justify it. I doubt very much though that the people behind TLJ would have enough integrity to research, let alone reference, TCWc. Lol
I think the most frustrating part of TLJ for me on my first viewing was when that underworld codebreaker guy; said that the same company was selling fighters to the Resistance and First Order, and then furthermore when he sold out Fin and Rose to the First Order and his grand rebuttal to Find saying the Resistance will catch up with him as he walked away was "Maybe."
Like bruh... Firstly TIEs and X Wings have such different design philosophies I absolutely REFUSE to believe they come from the same manufacturer; and secondly these omnicidal maniacs just blew up an entire solar system or 5 the other day, he just sold out the only hope (as far as he knew) of stopping these goons for a lump sum (when the space Nazis could have easily killed him after he gave them what they wanted to know, might I add), and all he have to say for the possibility of facing consequences is MAYBE?!
The funny thing about it is, unless he died in the Holdo Maneuver, he totally did get away with it Scott free too. 🙃
@@TurnedAgainstMe66 I remember myself witnessing that, I legit was looking at the whole audience, utterly confused what I just watched, it's just so bullshit, makes the prequels look subtle.
I remember playing Jedi Outcast the first time, and that first cutscene with Luke was what convinced me how badly Disney missed the mark with Luke in The Last Jedi.
Can’t believe it’s been 5 years,Feels like yesterday to me,I remember all the promos,and now we know the full extent,and the mess.
So Uncivilised does such a great breakdown of this one in particular, but the (anti)trilogy as a whole.
Well done going back!🙏🏼
STORY TIME!
5 years ago, on Christmas, I was given a choice. My wife wanted to see greatest showman, I had been dying to see episode 8. Realizing I would probably like greatest showman anyway, I decided against last Jedi and I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT SINCE. Same goes for episode 9. Moral of the story: be selfless and you'll always be spared a worse fate.
Just watch the first 5 minutes lol
@@ryanb9749 I wouldn't be able to get past that cringy crank call lol
@@after-worknetwork6095 lol 😆 😂 🤣 That's where I stopped on my rewatch. It hurts
God how I envy you. I watched it in with my mother, who taught me film critique at her knee. I had the strong, desperate impulse to leave the theater at the prank call and especially when Luke tossed his father’s lightsaber, but I stayed out of morbid curiosity and have regretted it ever since. Thankfully I had the catharsis afterwards of staying up with my mom til 3 o’clock in the morning tearing it apart, absolutely ripping the writing to shreds. She was as mad as I was!
I think a lot of those people who like it or claim to like it do so because it makes them feel smarter, like they’ve convinced themselves they have seen some deeper meaning other people have missed.
Not really. Thats called an appeal to motive. Criticize the film not those who see something different than you.
Exactly that's how I feel they are narcistic like Johnson there is no message we have missed we just see threw the bs that's all.
Things I liked about TLJ: Snoke has an "Evil Plan" that he carries out, he cruelly manipulates Kylo like Han said he would, and dies because of overconfidence. When Finn says "I'm not going to let them win" was a emotional moment I could relate to.
Also the fight on Crait was cool
Edit: the second part I mean
After Force Awaken and Rogue One I was in full fan mode, I fully trusted Lucasfilm and Disney to deliver and respect the lore of Star Wars.
Last Jedi was the slap in the face that destroyed any trust I had for Lucasfilm. And when they started using the racism and sexism excuse for the backlash I was deeply insulted as a paying customer.
Now I dont get excited anymore. Im always expecting the worst until im proven wrong like for Andor
They learned they could blame fans for their failure. It's the ultimate tool at their disposal and they are not afraid to use it.
Force Awakens was still badly made too
@@harrambou9468 I was deeply concerned about Disney's trilogy about 45 minutes into the force awakens.. I kept thinking this is just the story from starwars rurposed and disguised as a sequel. Tlj just exposed how they had no actual plan for the trilogy after they did a soft reboot with the force awakens...
"Racism excuse" while they intentionally destroy Finn's future role in 8-9 in an awful attempt to appeal to eastern markets.
📽🎞 I was happy and hyped after the Force Awakens,
I rewatched it in theaters 3 times!
....after the Last Jedi
everything changed.
Literally, that is exactly what happened to me. I also watched the 7th one 3 times in theaters and enjoyed it. I walked out of the Last Jedi confused. I thought, "well, there were a few good things, but WHAT did they do to Luke? Maybe they'll stick the landing with the next one." Then the teaser came out for 9, ND as soon as I heard the laugh at the end, I knew we were screwed. Still surprised just how bad that one was.
Other way round imo
I still say The Force Awakens is an alright film. The problem with it is that it relies on the other two movies in the trilogy to stick the landing (which they didn't).
@@JanelleWaz Force Awakens is a complete fucking mess in nearly every facet of writing, I'm sorry, but it's only like 15% better than TLJ at damn best.
I killed it.
I decided way back then, not to watch The Last Jedi until I got an idea of where they were going with the story once the 3rd film was released. Well, we all know what happened there. So I ended up never watching or even wanting to watch the last 2 films. Johnson lost me with the "your Snoke theory sucks" post and when the Luke tossing his lightsaber into the ocean "promotional" clip was released. The reviews cemented it. I have no time for a director who treats me with contempt.
Well said Thor. I've only rewatched the edited "improved" version that came out a while back since seeing it in theaters. No plans on rewatching Jake Skywalker anytime soon. I'll stick to the PT and OT.
I remember people forcing themselves to watch The Last Jedi over and over again until they liked it. There were a lot of content creators who admitted doing this.
The film that not only destroyed Luke Skywalker, but completely emasculated him, insulted everything he stood for, and replaced him with his not-daughter Mary Sue.
No it didn't
@@michaelknox3715 It did.
This is the toxic fan base referred to elsewhere. Calling Rey a mary sue but completely ignoring that Luke was able to do nearly impossible things with the force plus fly a sophisticated starfighter after a couple conversations with a hermit.
@@stevebreedlove9760 Rey's feats in her first film far exceeds Luke's though.
TLJ has aged like milk given the deeper impacts it had in dividing the fanbase and giving us the ingredients for the disaster that was TROS. Everything negative to say has been said thousands of times. The people who love it have firmly chosen their stance and won’t be convinced otherwise. That’s completely their right. In a way they’re the true winners because they’ll never be erased from canon at this point. Lucasfilm has to bend over backwards to tie in the sequels at the expense of other shows and media. There’s so many sequel tie in comics and books that make zero sense because the story they have to accommodate makes zero sense. Any story they tell is required to tie into them because Disney invested way too much for anything else to happen. That’s why I’ll never appreciate this movie but I don’t care if other people do anymore.
Ya and that also very reason it's hard to be invested in whatever they pump out as it leds towards something that had no plan/ plot holes/ a bunch of other problems that cant be fixed without a complete remake which will never happen. While I enjoy mando, bad batch, clone wars, vision, etc I don't feel e cited or really need to wat h lastest star wars show released in comparison I more excited for anime/ game or merch released.
Star wars is like secondary which is saying a lot.
In which your faced with 2 options ignore it as whole while enjoying what Disney pumps out or just move on to something else which wont give you a headache.
SW will never be the same. Not even Mando or Andor can change that
It's near the end of the canon timeline. Why would tlj ruin everything independent that takes place before it?
Mando was shit though?
And I got the bootleg version of The Mandalorian, Bob Iger’s company would never get a cent from me. Not even on Disney+.
I’m sticking to physical media.
Can we just move on from this?! we really trying forget it is existance
I wish we could but all roads lead to this movie.
I tried rewatching this a few months ago. I stopped after Rey and Kylo's first Force Discord call. Kinda sad too because I rewatched The Force Awakens without any problems. I haven't even tried to rewatch Episode 9.
I saw TFA twice in theaters. The first time I saw it I was so buzzed for new Star Wars that I barely noticed any flaws. The second time was a completely different experience...
Yeah, I hated TFA when I saw it in theaters, but upon rewatching it and knowing what to expect, I felt it was disappointing, but there was still a lot to work with to make a good story, and it wasn't a terrible film. Episodes 8 and 9 on the other hand are an insult to cinema, storytelling, and Star Wars.
TFA lacks substance, but imo, Harrison Ford really carries the movie to the extent that I really didn't care/notice how empty the Rey stuff was. with the exception of Rey miraculously discovering force powers superior to Kylo (both before and after he's injured), my complaints are minor. It was fine for being a light/nostalgic sff action movie. unfortunately, that last bit with Rey (so called mary sue moments) kind of opened the door to what would become a chasm full of lore-breaking plot moves.
To be fair, Luke and Vader had the force discord call ability
@@chromatinkiss they had a brief mental connection, like how Luke and Obi-Wan had in ANH, but not to the point they could see each other and interact with each other. The sequel trilogy really blew up the abilities via the Force that really anything could happen and there were no stakes anymore.
I immediately hated it on my 1st watch, and desperately went back a second time trying to give it another chance. You have to have the most surface-level of love for Star Wars to like this movie. "Hey man, it's got the music and the lightsabers and the force and the starship battles. What's not to like? That's Star Wars, you're just an entitled fan." It makes you wonder what would be too far for them. A 2 hour movie of Jar Jar just giving the finger to the audience? No, even that would still have the opening title crawl music and therefore they would love it.
My hot takes: 1) the Sequel trilogy should have served as a proper sequel to the OT story that addressed the PT’s broader narrative themes; 2) the “Luke” issue is actually rather minor compared to the issues with Rey’s character arc and the Finn/Poe plot.
I agree. And I’ll add one more. The sequels would have been much more cohesive, and given the franchise a place to go with new movies if they had embraced the last Jedi and made the duel of the fates movie instead of rise of skywalker.
@@maxhocks2006 100% i saw a video on that trashed script and its a shame we got RoS which didnt even feel epic.
I remember watching the movie and going, "that's... the end. The story's over."
Interesting to have a middle part of a trilogy act more as a conclusion and totally cut off the next movie at the knees.
Realistically, the second film was constrained by the first.
I had that feeling after the force awakens... I remember coming out and saying. So for their first movie in this new sequel trilogy they decided to remake a new hope?? What a joke... this trilogy was dead on arrival..
What this film did to further the story was blur the line between good and evil, and highlight the gray area in the middle, which is something we've had in the EU, but not very much at all on the big screen. On that same note, one is the best scenes is the code breaker explaining to a naive finn how the rebels and the empire buy their weapons of war from the same people
It’s grown on me since it came out. I don’t like all of it by any means, and there’s definitely some scenes that have me scratching my head, but as time has passed I’ve enjoyed the thematic and emotional aspects of this movie a great deal more.
Same. It isnt the best film. But it isnt the worst.
Finally someone with brains. Obviously is not the best star wars film but compare to how lifeless and unoriginal the abrams movies are this is the only decent sequel.
I’ve never walked out of a theatre where everyone was completely silent
I stand by: a bold, new, challenging story would be welcome by true fans. ....but NOT the pivotal second movie of a trilogy that not only was supposed to jive, but had to wrap up the entire saga! Not the time to throw a breaking ball. I think Rian would've gotten MUCH less hate if he was given one of the solo films. THAT was the correct venue to try new things.
Ironically the solo films are mostly nostalgia movies that don't try anything new
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I mean, Rogue One at least tried to show the darker side of the Rebellion...but that's about it really
I agree. Plus he could have had much more freedom to experiment in a solo film. Win win. To me this is Kennedy’s biggest failure. Not having a plan/vision for the trilogy.
It wasn’t bold or new. KOTOR II did a better job at deconstructing the franchise because it also reconstructed it
I agree with this statement. They should have never touched legacy characters. Would be much better if new characters faced the imperial remnant with Luke, Leia, Han etc having minor roles for "passing the sceptre" to new characters and actors.
6:24 I mean you could say that for ANY story that came after Return of the Jedi, not just in Disney, but back in Legends, or anything.
I used to Love Starwars, Before the Dark times, Before the
Sequel Trilogy
I felt like I’d just been dumped by the love of my life after I walked out of that cinema from watching that thing. It injured me.
It wanted to be Kotor 2 and was instead the last season of game of thrones.
That sums it up perfectly.
The Last Jedi is the first movie in theaters that I have ever see people booing very aggressively. People where still off the Marvel high at the time. When Luke threw the lightsaber at the beginning of the film, people laughed like "ohhh silly Luke!!" like he was gonna do some trick with the lightsaber. Then he didn't and everyone got quiet and nervous. Then it went downhill from there with each boo getting louder than the previous one. The person next to me was passed out drunk he reeked of booze (I can't believe he had the right idea all along). I will never forget that surreal experience.
Whatever flaws TLJ has, it is the only modern SW movie that is still worth talking or joking about five years later. In that way it is very much like the prequels, or in the same place. The Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker, I honestly don't remember a thing about those movies. There's just nothing there.
The Last Jedi:
1) it has the same plot elements as ESB. They are out of order and they are poorly implemented.
Kanto Bite = Cloud City
Thief guy = Lando
Space Chase = Asteroid Field
Crayt = Hoth
Ray Parent = Luke's parent.
Etc.
They copied homework but did such a bad job that it's almost unrecognizable. All the elements are there (even surrogate Tauntauns), but poorly executed like how Snoke is just Admiral Ozzel. (Does that make Phasma Veers or Needa?)
2) New elements are bad toys.
Snowspeeders > Skiffs
AT-AT > New AT-AT.
Luke has 4 costumes > Rey changed her hair
Hoth Lego Sells out > Haven't seen TLJ set recently
3) In the Last Jedi, everyone is bad at their job so the adventure can happen. For example, the movie happens because the captain shot the base on the planet first instead of the Radius, because . . .
In ESB, bad things happen as a result of Cause and effect. All the bad things that happen in ESB because, as already established at the start of the movie, the Falcon's Hyperdrive failed. Because the hyper drive failed they flew into the asteroid Field, resulting in a space chase.
Because they flew into the astroid field they went to Bespin. Because they went to Bespin Han got tortured. Han go tortured to lure out Luke. Because Han was tortured Lando betrayed Vader, etc.
4) The Empire was a credible threat. The First Order is not.
5) How did Luke get to Ankto without an Astromech droid to act as the Nav computer in Red 5?
I waited an entire year to see this movie. I dodged spoilers like Neo dodges bullets, and then I smoked Mmy once a year special blunt. When I read the first sprawl after the title, I understood that I would not enjoy this movie if I used Mmy brain; IMO: "The first order reigns!" is stupider then: "somehow Palpatine returned", because it came first and set the bar lower then anything else in Star Wars(canon or EU).
I enjoyed Mmy first time watching the movie, but I had to *ACTIVELY SUPPRESS* Mmy ability to think. Though there was one moment.. so bad... that I had to pause the film and calm Mmyself down so I could enjoy it... *"The Milk Scene"!* Still, I managed to calm Mmyself down, and actually really love the movie.
When it ended, I went: "that was the best Star Wars movie I've ever seen!"; Then the comparison made Mme actually start using Mmy brain, so I thought of Empire Strikes Back. Then I said: "No, it's the second best movie!", but I had to keep thinking about it; and more I thought about it, the lower Mmy opinion got. Until finally I remembered: *"THE MILK SCENE",* and I felt scandalized by a movie I had just praised as being the best thing I have ever seen minutes before!
It was then I decided I hated the film, and I thankfully went online to see if anyone shared Mmy opinions; and I found the beautifyl Mahler rant. I watched all ten hours, and I felt more seen, validated, and accepted by Mahler's rant then any other thing in Mmy life!
I have dedicated Mmyself to hating this film, then loving it unconditionally, just so I could turn around and hate it with such a fiery and undying passion! I have every scene memorized, I have wrote doz3ns of essays on the subject and I have destroyed every fiber of this creation so thoroughly that I cannit argue with people who love it anymore; because it would just be cruel to humiliate the thing they love.
*Betrayal,* is a trigger for Mme and Mmy C-PTSD. I was loving Disney Star Wars, and giving them nothing but the benefit of the doubt and unconditional adoration and love; and then they stabbed Mme in the heart with this abomination! I will never forgive this.
I watched TLJ 4 times opening week, more times than any other SW movie, because I was in so much denial of how badly they damaged everything from the Lucas era…intentionally. Still remember jumping on Thor’s discord opening night and discussing how horrible we all felt about it. Dark times…
Oof that’s rough.
I honestly am sad this movie even came out and I didn’t even see it after watching the rehashed “A New Hope” came out.
The way Disney has people surviving lightsaber impalements, they could’ve easily brought back Snoke instead of Palpy for the last movie. So he actually didn’t die in this movie.
As with every Star Wars movie I went on opening day. Within the first minute I became uncomfortable with decisions made and never had a chance to recover when decision after decision wore me down. When it was over I left the movie shaking. When I got to my car I wept with emotional exasperation. The depression that followed was horrible and caused me to skip solo completely until it was available to watch at home. I tried to watch it a second time but couldn’t endure it realized that i had ptsd because of it. I’m not proud of that but it does show how important our stories are to us. They shape us into the people we are.
Damn bro I feel you on a deep level. Also within the first minute I was left... not sure ‘uncomfortable’ is the word for me-I’m a quick draw/judge-it was an outright “no.” Physical rejection, like after a bad organ transplant. But those moments kept coming, and each one made me feel more ill than the last. I left the theater also shaking, out of rage and disgust and betrayal of the highest order. How could he do that with something so precious? How could he treat a vision as pure as Star Wars with such undisguised cynicism? And how could someone like *that* possibly have been given the keys? I raged all night at the injustice, at the shame of the missed point, but it was the lost chance that got me in the end.
I didn’t cry in the car. I cried in my bed, a few times over the following weeks, when, in the darkness and the silence, I faced the death of my dream, of George’s fairy tale: the public demise of the Modern Myth-no longer something to be believed, but to be mocked; inverted and cast aside.
I never saw Rise of Skywalker. Never saw Solo. Watched the Mandalorian about a year after it came out. And with Kenobi, the last insult, spit on the grave, it’s over, it’s finally all dead to me. I still have my 6 films, immortal and endless; my children will still have those that story. But the phenomenon is finished. The living thing, once created, has been destroyed.
@@TheCapedWanderer the one thing that gives me hope is different story tellers can tell the same story differently. After all it’s a long time ago in a galaxy far away. The last Jedi was told by a twit telling the story to children with disabilities and was trying to be funny instead of telling the real story. I’d imagine a ww2 vet would talk about his war stories with his war buddies than with his grand kids
@@TheCapedWanderer You should give Andor a shot. It’s the best Star Wars of the Disney era.
@@eyeheartsushi2212 Absolutely not. I’m sorry, I know you mean that sincerely. But my connection to the Force is severed. I don’t care if Andor’s good. I don’t care if the dialogue is well-written or if the cinematography is evocative or if the characters are compelling. It’s over. It is... too late for me, my son.
Star Wars is very special to me, and I can spot the real thing a mile away. I’m glad people can enjoy a well-made series that takes place in the universe, but I cannot. What I require is a straight myth-a fantastical yet believable tale of human tragedy and triumph, set against the most extravagant tapestry imaginable, riddled with symbols, drowning in life at once alien and deeply familiar. Do you think I will find that in Andor? Extremely doubtful. No Jedi? Put it this way: I wouldn’t watch Andor if everything Disney had done had been great; I’m certainly not going to watch it just because it was all shit.
As someone who did love the movie, it’s complicated to fully explain why I love it. I should note, I am more of a movie guy rather than a Star Wars guy. My favourite film of all time is Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and I consider the original trilogy to be masterworks, but it’s exactly as you said, I’m not massively hung up on the greater details and how a story fits into canon, the same way a historical film isn’t ruined for me if there’s an inaccuracy here or there.
For one thing, the cinematography is excellent, seriously, Steve Yedlin deserved an Oscar Nomination for his work on this film. The scene on Krait, especially. Chef’s kiss. The music is also awesome, but then again, when is it not? It’s John Williams, the man has never done bad work. The acting was pretty good for the most part, I personally feel it’s one of Mark Hamill’s best performances and I do genuinely like the stuff it does with the characters. I love the idea that Rey is just some nobody from some random nowhere. I think that’s great. You don’t have to be part of a dynasty to be a hero in this universe. I like the conversations between Rey and Kylo, I like the death of Snoke in throwing people for a loop, I understand the whole thing with Holdo and Canto Bight is a bit controversial, I don’t have a problem with them. I think Leia’s stuff is really nice (even if it was a bit weird knowing she had sadly passed on) and that Yoda scene. “The greatest teacher, failure is.”
Now, I do get why people don’t like the movie, and that’s fine, movies don’t have to cater to everyone, that’s how you get something like The Rise Of Skywalker, a movie I’m not particularly fond of. But, I personally think it is a great film, made by one of my favourite up and coming Directors, which gets more hate than I really think it deserves.
Granted, maybe it’s just the contrarian in me, I don’t know.
Thanks for writing those thoughts down. I don't see eye to eye with the OP about TLJ but I respect where he's coming from. I still love the film, both as SW and as a story in film, and am one of those who couldn't get on with RoS, finding it a bit of a mess. My brief messy thoughts. :)
I remember a few months ago, I watched the movie with my best friend since he has only heard from me how terrible it is, and it was also 4 years since I last saw it back in theaters. It's just as bad, if not worse than I remember it. I remembered why I hated it and found new things to hate. The only thing that made the movie worth it was laughing at its failure with my best friend.
I will still always hate The Last Jedi and it was the nail in the coffin for why I focused primarily on the EU even more and kept modern canon at the sideline.
I’ve started re reading the legends books again too.
The Rule of Two-Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams
I'm sure it's been mentioned countless times already, but KOTOR 2 managed to be both a great sequel and "deconstruct" Star Wars and the previous game in the series. I'm sure someone could make a whole video essay on why that is and why The Last Jedi failed at that.
Honestly I understand why they changed Luke. If he was still the same optimist he was in Return Of The Jedi there was zero reason to go into hiding and cut himself off from the Galaxy. This wasn’t a situation like agora where he needed to hide because his enemy was in complete control of the Galaxy. So given the setup left by JJ it makes sense. It also allows him to have an arc over the course of the movie rather then just being a on r note cameo.
That being said the Disney Trilogy and the EU shouldn’t exist. For his victory in ROTJ to be complete he should have had a happily ever after ending instead a constant stream of battles until finally dying.
Hey Thor, I actually try to watch all Star Wars movies at least once a year, but the last time I saw the last Jedi was a couple of years ago. I guess I’ll have to rewatch it once more. On another note, I’m kind of excited to see what’s coming in the next couple of years in regards to Star Wars movies, given the excellent quality of the current show Andor
Kotor 2 will always be a better deconstruction of the Star Wars universe, themes, philosophies, and general tropes it uses.
I left the theatre deflated and even angry primarily due to the central message of “obey authority”. This is the antithesis of the original trilogy.
Wait. The central theme is "obey authority?" Can you please provide examples? Im not sure we saw the same movie.
@@stevebreedlove9760 The mutiny subplot.
Well… before I explain why I consider this the best Star Wars movie since the Original Trilogy, I need to give some context here:
When I saw The Last Jedi in theaters, it was the last movie I ever watched with my father. He was at the end stages of ALS at the time and our family was simply in the darkest depths of despair. So when we saw Luke Skywalker, this symbol of hope, be reduced to a broken shell of a man, it hit home hard and seeing him redeem himself in the end before fading into the sunset… what can I say, it touched a nerve. I think the theme of the film was to persevere and move forward in the wake of great loss.
I remember looking to my dad asking him what he thought of the film and with his one good hand, he was able to give a thumbs up.
I will never forget this memory as long as I live - and to be honest, I haven’t seen the film since because I’m afraid I will see its flaws and my memory will be tarred.
Now with all that out of the way, there are objectively good things about the movie. Yes the visual style is spectacular, but in terms of filmmaking, I feel like this was the first Star Wars film in decades to do something different. As you said this trilogy had to justify its own existence. I liked Force Awakens but it was essentially the same as the original 1977 film. Also how many more films do we need to see with hour long CGI lightsaber fights and long boring talks about the dark side (yeah I’m not a fan of the prequels FYI - I feel they already destroyed the Star Wars story for me). Hearing Luke discuss how the force doesn’t belong to the Jedi or The Sith added a new twist to the lore that wasn’t so black and white and how Kylo Ren tries to manipulate Rey with that mindset was interesting.
Now I can understand some of the sillier moments being criticized for sure - the most glaring problem for me was Benecio Del Toro’s character and kind of made that whole side quest (even if I did enjoy it) pretty much pointless. And unfortunately The Rise of Skywalker hit the panic button and abandoned some of the more interesting ideas that could have been expanded all for Palpatine 3.0.
Long story short, I guess my judgement on the film is clouded by personal experience and having not seen the film in a while, I’m in no position to give a review in retrospect, but those are my thoughts.
Apathy is the right word. I’m done with the sequels. I tried, I really did. I got through several viewings of TFA and TLJ before I finally accepted how bad they were, and quite enjoyed raging on about them (and I’m glad eating up all the RUclips content I could find on TLJ led me to your channel).
But I’m just, done. I’m genuinely jealous of anyone who can enjoy them, but I have no interest even debating them anymore. Disney has virtually abandoned them, and now that they’re in the past even the vociferous defenders are nowhere to be found (hence my conspiracy theory that much of the support for them was from sock puppet accounts but I digress). The trilogy failed conclusively at everything it attempted to do. The only thing that interests me about them, as an on-again, off-again writer, is the writing lessons you can learn from performing autopsies on the sequels.
I personally think the Holdo manoeuvre makes sense in context. For the entire first half of the movie (and retroactively TFA), we are shown that Snoke first and foremost is flashy and arrogant. His hologram in TFA presents him as a giant, he goes around wearing a golden robe, has this stupidly large ship, sadisticly decides to play with his "food" by staying behind the resistance fleet letting them to run out of power one by one rather than just quickly sending some destroyers ahead to surround them and seems to have taken no caution to the possibility of his aprentice betraying him, even though it's known to basicly be the norm for dark side users.
Spending ressources at things mostly for show is completely and consistently in character for Snoke. Hyperspace ramming only does the giant amount of damage it does because the target ship happens to be gigantic like no ship we have seen so far (or at least in the movies). Imagine if the First Order had stuck to swarms of standard size and maybe super star destroyers; ramming cruisers going into hyperspace would have no effect against a decentralised fleet. But Snoke felt the need to inflate his military muscles for show and that's why it ended up popping like a balloon. It's even also a pretty common theme in the OT with the death stars.
My problem with The Last Jedi was in how it treated the Rebellion, or Resistance, I suppose, as being completely disposable and extraneous to the overall story being told. You have Holdo being a very bad flag officer, which is bad, but not unforgiveable if there's a reason behind it. Tallie being introduced as a stylish new pilot character, flying an A-Wing to boot, who is killed offscreen in a ridiculous way. Ackbar gets even worse treatment, he should be one of the three greatest figures of the Rebellion and it is barely acknowledged when he dies. Finn tries to do something heroic to save his friends and the Resistance and is prevented from doing so in a way that seems like it should be fatal and with very little good reason.
The OT treated the Rebellion as the heroes that they had to be. Every pilot who died did so in a meaningful way, doing something great. The Last Jedi kills the Resistance so hard that it can fit in the Falcon and the movie clearly doesn't care about their sacrifice, it is all just window dressing. I think that Rian Johnson has a pretty good handle on Star Wars lore, but he clearly didn't understand that the heart of the OT, for many of us who wanted to be Wedge Antilles in an X-Wing, a bridge officer on a Corellian Corvette, or one of the commandos down on Endor was that the Rebellion mattered and that Luke Skywalker wouldn't have been able to take down the Empire without them. The Last Jedi knows thinks that those rebels don't matter, so it disposes of them accordingly.
The Last Jedi, coincidentally also became The Last Star Wars movie I watched.
5 years later and Rian is still working on his new Star Wars trilogy. Let's see what the next 5 years hold.
You and me both.
😂😂😂
I thought he got booted out of there, unless I missed the joke.
The damage this movie did to SW is irredeemable.
It’s hard to let the past die when all roads lead to Jake Skywalker.
Honestly, a lot of the IDEAS in this film don't seem so bad. They just did a poor job of delivering the goods.
The idea of a jedi being disillusioned with the order and wanting it to die isn't bad (heck, Dooku's arc in Tales of the Jedi handled it great). The problem was that it was Luke doing it, and these actions go against everything he stands for as a character.
Using a "Holdo Maneuver" could work if it was properly set up, needing some super-rare, super-expensive material that's incompatible with weapons and shielding so it's super vulnerable and will kill the whole squad protecting it if it gets blown up and a longshot even if it does work (even introduce a few ships earlier that attempted it and failed, etc), basically set up legit reasons it might be worth the trade-off. But they didn't do that.
The idea of Finn taking a new character along for a mission and having them run into war profiteers could work. They could set-up moral quandaries (ie, have them say that they have no choice but to leave the slaves, animals, etc because it will take too much time, and then they make it back to the others just in time and then throw in a line about how if they had been 'putting out small fires' they would have outright lost the war, showing how sometimes soldiers have to make the hard decision. But Rian decided to let the characters have their cake and eat it too.
The character of DJ could have been interesting, but they did nothing with him. The idea of Poe learning to be more cautious could have worked, but Holdo was poorly written, and many of Poe's risky decisions paid off. The idea of Kylo trying to recruit Rey could work, but Rey was able to deflect it like it was nothing. Snoke having all of these ridiculously strong mind powers could work (sort of like a dark version of a jedi mind trick), and do a lot in episode 9, but Snoke can't do that when he's dead. The idea of Leia using the force could work, (heck, Legends did a decent job with it) but it needed more foreshadowing and explaining, and more bewildered reactions from others.
I feel Rian is the type of guy who can make legendary moments but doesn't think about the substance behind the proper set-up (although if what I heard about Knives Out is correct, he's improved drastically). I feel that was the issue. Rian had ideas for great moments but didn't think about the needed implications.
The Sequel trilogy never existed, there is always the Original Trilogy, the Clone Wars (both versions), and the Prequel trilogy.
Agree mostly. I also include rogue one. I consider it better than the ewok half of the 3rd movie.
Andor is also good
What about mando?
@@Milothemighty10 haven't seen it. Strong reluctance to give Disney a dime as long as Kk is there. They have andor for free on Hulu and I thought I'd see it but couldn't make it thru an episode because it felt like a pointless waste of time.
Maybe someday when they officially remove the three Disney sequels from Disney cabin I might
@@macmcleod1188 I highly recommend it but ya I see where your coming from if Star Wars is to improve kennedy must go…
This may not be true for everyone but I’ve noticed that a lot of people who like this movie had only recently become Star Wars fans because it was suddenly mega popular again at the time it came out. While this trilogy was happening, there were people on social media that I knew for a fact didn’t used to be Star Wars fans suddenly posting about Star Wars. While people who really don’t like this film have been following this franchise since they were kids however long ago that might have been. Again, probably not true for everyone but I have noticed that.
I remember when I watched it at the movie theatre, afterwards I was so confused about what I’d just seen, for good and bad
Now 5yrs have passed since it’s realise and unfortunately there is more bad than good.
The only people I knew who liked TLJ were not into the mythos of Star Wars. I was throughly disappointed and confused after seeing it.
I rage quit Star Wars after Last Jedi. Only positive thing I'll say about about that abomination is that it was the biggest red pull I've ever gotten.
Just kinda glad the trilogy is over and most people seem to have unanimously agreed not to talk or really remember it. It happened it was all bad and now it’s gone.
One thing I can’t understand is why so many people got mad that Luke didn’t get off his ass and leave the planet with someone who he literally just met. Like if this was literally any other movie or tv character you’d be fine with it but apparently Luke doesn’t get to be a grieving hermit. “Luke wouldn’t just abandon the force” because Luke hadn’t screwed up on such a massive scale before
I’m still heartbroken, crushed, and deflated from my one viewing on December 14, 2017….Remember the lies….Empire was hated when it released…people will love it in time…we’re the ones with the problem…I’ll never forgive them…
Have you guys seen that clip from "A Stupid and Futile Gesture" when Domhnall Gleeson's character resigns, he walks out very politely saying: "Good luck, F you, good bye". Somebody commented: Domhnall walking out from Star Wars after getting his paycheck from Disney. 🤣
Good for you, man. I don't think I could do it. I'll rewatch the Holiday Special again and get a good laugh. All this movie would do is put me in a bad mood.
I saw it in theaters with my ex-wife. I wanted to love this movie but I left speechless, trying to defend it in my head. I looked at my spouse and was only reminded of the horrors I had witnessed in TLJ. I couldn't do it anymore, so we divorced. Rian Johnson ruined my marriage. My children have split households because Rian needed to subvert my expectations. He subverted my children's expectations of a happy childhood.
😳
your opinion is objectivly the best
Dude wtf? 🤨
The Last Jedi has one of the most important ideas for the franchise as whole: we may love the past, respect the past, remind the past but not live in the past
5 years later and I still think it sucks. I’ve tried to watch it many times and still find myself huffing at scenes and turning it off. I just can’t do it and the more I watch it, the more I dislike it.
I haven't watched it since I saw it opening weekend, it just sucked all the enthusiasm I had for this franchise. If I ever somehow watch it again, I'm not going to as part of the Star Wars marathon, 1-6 are the only canon films.
0:15 "My original thought or plan was to watch it again and make some long-form video, where I go scene by scene in an effort to dissect it as fair as I can, looking for both good and bad things that I may have missed or overlooked in my previous viewings".
You almost become a member of the LLLLLLOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG form video essayists. long form video essays is where a person(s) goes through a piece of media frame by frame, second by second, page by page, minute by minute, etc.
Fine work Thor. I like the angle you took. Far more interesting than another examination of what’s wrong with the movie. At this point I think all of us who don’t like it are well aware of why. I enjoyed your different approach
The sad part is I gave it a shot I legitimately did