Overanalyzing Monster Design in Gothic and Gothic Remake
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- @Audio-Man
Today, we'll take a look at how monsters in Gothic are presented and how Gothic Remake seems to reimagine them. Enjoy!
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/ theaudioman
#gothic #gothicremake #monster
Video where I analyze armors and locations, as well as the color palette:
ruclips.net/video/l_jmOrbpGv4/видео.html
Remove the novice's armband, now you are worthy to wear the Guru's vestments. 9) May the SslLleEepeEer be with us!!!)))
There is such a question to the voiceover, about what kind of creatures inhabit the Mine Valley. Picking mushrooms at night in the forest, I came across the cry of an Owl. I understand that it was created for atmosphere and immersion. And since I was really playing at night, it was about 02.00 at night, I almost shit myself. The question is: - Is there 1 Owl in Gothic? 8)
Do the developers know that the magic of Adanos (lightning) has no resists?
Hey, do you remember the cave in the fields of Onar the landowner from Gothic 2? Beetles - "field predators" - settled in this cave. There is what you call a "web" in this cave. However, most likely, it is saliva, secretions for housing construction, feeding larvae. (in addition to the substance contained in mandibles as a poison.)
The part about being able to identify how strong an enemy is simply by looking is so interesting to me. Nowadays we have numbers or skulls showcasing how strong enemies are (which is so immersion breaking), or even worse like in Elden Ring where the same enemy can one shot you simply because he's from high level location and sometimes there's no way to tell how strong he is until it might be too late.
I hate these skull indicators. They really take me out of the experience.
The skull indicator in Elex is one of the prime examples of Piranha Bytes not knowing what used to make their games good.
Shhh. Quietly. This suggests that the piranhas created Gothic 1, but when they created it, they did not understand what they created. And stupidly copied it. Analysis on this channel can help them learn how to analyze. What if they get smarter? 🤣
Also in Elden Ring the same monster type appears several times throughout the game with huge differences in strength.
I still really like Elden Ring, but they definitely had too less monsters and a far too big world in comparison.
Gothic is a masterpiece. It's a shame it doesn't have as many fans as it deserves.
Definitely.
That thing with the red eyes is somehow penetrant? I mean: it would be ok to integrate a species with red-glowing eyes. But man, if about half the animals have them, it is an inflation.
And you are absolutely right to state: the original design helped one to get what enemy you can take on and which one you cannot. If that gets lost, then it is another lost key game aspect and not just merely a question of design.
I really hope that the Remake devs heed to this feedback.
Also, about the goblins and their armor.
In this christmas short they either have heads the same size as humans, or they are good smiths - looking by how well the helmet fits on that goblin.
Hey i just want to thank you for making these videos about Gothic remake, i really hope the devs will stay as close as possible to the original design and worldbuilding without removing or changing things that may be "outdated" for them.
I hope so too. From all my conversations with them, I see the passion that they have for this project, and the respect that they have for the original, so I'm fairly optimistic.
many modern games have this problem where they overdesign a creature or a piece of armor. Giant and and giant bugs are scary enough without adding a bunch of teeth on them . New scavengers look more like predator dinosaurs then herbivore birds.
Absolutely captured one of my biggest complaints of the remake demo in general. It seems the team is trying to veer towards more a fantasy looking art style, where-as the original looked more tame and wanted the animals and armors to blend in with the surrounding world.
As a kid I'd buy a scroll to transform into a Snapper or a Shadowbeast and walk around the forests, getting a look at other animals and see how they behave.
It's fascinating, isn't it?
It's also interesting how every "humanoid" species in Gothic 1 and 2 (orcs, goblins, trolls) have very clearly features of primates, essentially implying those are the result of other paths of primate evolution that went in similar way as the hominid one.
This is stark contrats with most of humanoid species in other settings which either are looking like modified humans directly or looknig like completly different creature got human body plan. This is looking more plausible for human-like species that exist alongside humans and not are descending or created by humans.
That's a very good point! Goblins seem to look as if the has barely split from lizards, which are so prevalent in Gothic.
One of the best points so far and it also could suggest that there is evolution at work in world of Gothic, something that is basically not present in any other fantasy world. Though on the other hand it somewhat stands at odds with theology of Gothic.
@@balin8252 Well, if a troll can be attributed to a cross between etty /bigfoot and kencong, then goblins no longer fit into an ordinary creature. Although in addition to this, there are semi-magical creatures in the game - harpies. Only women. The process of their appearance and reproduction is not clear.
@@balin8252 If harpies love mountains, then Xardas also likes to build a dwelling in the mountains... 😅😅😅 Who helps them with reproduction 😁😆
@@balin8252 No matter how the old necromancer beat against the stones, fluff and feathers continued to fly across the floor... It did not work out to create an heir for himself... For the truth remained the truth... Only harpies were born to harpies 😅🤣🤣🤣
I agree, they are trying too hard to make monsters monstrous while they should be animals.
I agree, I don't like the idea of making everyone some kind of monster. Scavenger is just some stupid bird, a tutorial creature, an easy hunt, doesn't need to look dangerous or scary. Now look at those muscles and strong tail, doesn't look easy hunt at all. Why bloodfly has monster head, it's just an insect, no need to make it look evil. Other ones are high level enemies so I don't mind them looking ominous. goblins are cool
I never interpreted the scavengers head as a skull, more like hardened skin/beak.
The high res renders are still kind of ambiguous, but I can see why the devs would make them like this. Still, I think it's not a great direction to go.
@@Audio-Man I think these birds have two styles of survival - running, and attack. But if the attack is part of the main strategy - nature had to create an analogue of a woodpecker from them. their beak strike should be lethal and substantial even for leather/metal armor.
A fellow english Gothic channel! Great content mate!
Thank you kindly :]
100% agree with you.
THQ devs should see this video!!
and WOW the two proposals are just ... perfect! scavenger exactly on point and the nose of the new goblin just great! hope it will be implemented in the final version of game.
big like!
Some of the devs have seen it. I talk to them occasionally. Also, thank you kindly for the comment 🙏
I've watched two of your videos about remake and I must agree that the two most concerning things are indeed monsters and the color palette. As for colors, the remake seems to be indeed dark and that's good but at the same time, it looks like these shades are more "dark and warm" (as ridiculous as it may sound) like some desert rather than "dark and cold" like more appropriate temperate climate with lots of forests. It also looks like it somewhat blends and instead of darker tones that can be distinguished from each other it all mixes together into that "beige, mad max-like (tho no offense to the mad max, it is an interesting franchise) mass with sand everywhere".
About monsters, I think you made a good point about how real and plausible they are in terms of the alternative timeline/evolutionary path and that they could basically exist or in fact existed in our world. I would add that for Gothic creatures it is basically a spectrum: At one end you have "animals" starting with wolves, boars, or maybe giant rats that are basically 1:1 to our world. Somewhat closer to the "monsters" spectrum there are scavengers, molerats, minecrawlers, snappers, and shadowbeasts. And then at the monsters spectrum, you have orcs, goblins, trolls, and at the end of it probably dragons, undead, and demons. Despite the fact that it is a spectrum there is still quite a clear distinction between "animal" and "monster" and it looks like they want to erase that distinction by making every creature more monstrous.
This is a great piece of commentary, sir, and I think that framing it as a spectrum is a really great way to look at it.
In general, a blood hornet and a crawler can become like that when a Sleeper moves into them. Only their eyes should turn green and not red, like demonic creatures.
One of the questions that remains open: - "Why did the creatures under the control of the Sleeper change and their eyes turned green?" And apocalyptic Templars / Seekers on the contrary with red eyes...
Super film :)
Bardzo dziękuję :]
I love when audio-man posts a new gothic video,I wished devs would put more content out there to be reviewed
Thank you kindly! Don't worry, I have some other videos planned, so I don't rely entirely on the news :]
The new meatbug is perfect. Cool take on these redesigns!
Thank you!
Bloodfly should have clasic black flylike eyes and no theeth. How can insect have teeth i dont like it.
Amazing video, Audio-Man! As a die-hard Gothic fan, I liked the new look of the Old Mine and armors, but I don't think the creatures needed to be reimagined so drastically. When I first played Gothic in the early 2000s, the most important thing for me was the believability of its wolves, molerats, and other beasts, which didn't look like stereotypical monsters from D&D-like games. The game didn't try to scare me on purpose with all these teeth and tongues on bloodflies and long legs on crawlers; instead, it had a perfect balance between fantasy and reality, and that balance is the most important thing that makes Gothic so atmospheric and unique compared to other RPGs of its time. If the guys from Alkimia won't get what exactly makes Gothic so special, the remake might be a complete disappointment for old fans like me.
Thank you, and I agree that it's a delicate balance to strike. However, the devs do gather feedback, primarily from the official Discord.
Gothic is one of the worst RPG game ever :)
top notch video
Thank you very much 🙏
Thanks
It seems that someone has lost his head from the coolness of this video, sorry. Don't take it to heart. 😉😅🤣
You have face of the real Audio-man.
Thank you. I think 😅
@@Audio-Man Drobnostka. Zacny materiał milordzie. Podaje dużo informacji dlaczego świat Gothic tak mocno odstaje od reszty wymiarów fantasy.
Dobre, świetne nawet.
Dziękuję bardzo, staram się 🙈 Przy okazji, wygodnie się ogląda w angielskim, czy może jednak wolałbyś polskie napisy? 🤔
@@Audio-Man Jakiekolwiek napisy to mój wróg rasowy. Więc używam ich tylko w ostateczności. Możesz przestać się wahać, dałeś czadu i naprawdę dobrze operujesz głosem i biegle władasz językiem Szekspira.
Jestem Komandor Audio-Man, a to jest mój ulubiony komentarz w Cytadeli.
Personally, i don't like the idea of giving snapper arms.
It seems like their (original ones) basic idea was taking theropod feature of big, strong head witrh small arms and double down for it: like you can guess thisa creature simply stopped using arms in any way so it disappeared, as they "put everything" in their giant mouth.
This wip remake one is looking just like a generic Jurassic Park raptor-like with some weird looking features.
Also, fun facttt: there were thorpods with quite simmilar body plan to those of Snappers Razors, together with vestigal arms (like, they were barely functioning, unlike arms of T.rex, which were functional and strong despite small size) - Abelisauridae.
This is incredibly interesting! I will forward this creature to the devs.
Phorusrhacos... - scavenger bird😅😂
Russian hackers, 🤣
Witcher Naccer's
McDonald's nuggets😇
@@Audio-ManI want pangolins in Gothic. I'll make myself a suit of armor out of them and go serve the druids.😉
As a gothic fan, yes, I don't like the new models (aside from the meat bug and maybe the minecrawler)
The meatbug really is perfect.
@@Audio-Man "Wait, the meat bug is perfect?"
"Always has been."
I love that comment lol
Great analysis . Gothic 1 and night of the raven are my favourite games of all time .
They did what The Witcher , From Software games , Mass Effect ( they riped gothic of) and 🤢elder scrolls🤮 are famous for . And if you ask me they did it much better .
Here is a new subscriber , i hope to see and hear more from you.
Thank you kindly!
@@Audio-Man do not thank me it was nothing .
Means quite a bit to me 👍
I love that you point out how G3 breaks with the story of G1 and 2! This is absolutely true and was one of the things that bothered me the most in the third part.
The developers now have the advantage (unlike the Piranhas) of knowing the whole story from the beginning. Hopefully they use this advantage and close logic gaps sensibly. For example, it would be great if they would align the orcs in Part 1&2 and the orcs from Part 3. The orcs from Part 3 a little less civilized and the orcs from the first two parts a little more civilized.
It would be great if the map increased, as originally planned by the piranhas, by 3 times. But some things from these ideas would change the perception a bit. For example, such as taming a creature and riding on mrakoris.
Perhaps the developers will not forget about the possibility of resurrecting Yu'Berion with a specially prepared potion, but in one of the variants he seems to die altogether.
Regarding the fangs of the scavengers. You ever seen the mouth of swans or ducks or geese? They do have fangs and pretty nasty ones. So, a scavenger with fangs makes absolutely sense.
I'm not saying it's physically impossible, I'm saying it was not the case on the terror bird species that served as an inspiration for the scavengers, nor was it the case on the scavengers themselves. It feels tacked on, really.
In nature, everything develops naturally. With such teeth, there is no need to peck when you can tear with your teeth. The teeth of this bird are too hypertrophied. The image indicates a Predatory lizard. Based on the name, it feeds on carrion, not fresh meat.
so... who pulls all those carts? also in g1 there is book about mounted warfare so there should be some domesticated animals that people can ride
I 100% agree with what you said. It's kind of sad for me that these elementary building blocks of a believable world and immersive atmosphere are gotten wrong so much in game developing.
I hope that devs will see this. I was okay with the design, but you clearly see things is deeper levels than me. And now i appreciate origina PB devs even more :D
Thank you 🙏 The devs actually do watch my videos. We talk sometimes.
100% u r right
i hope they will see it and make it better
Your critiques are on point, and I dearly hope the new devs listen to it and correct their mistakes. Some of the new creatures look very generic and out of context for Gothic, especially the scavenger and the mine crawlers. In fact, the mine crawlers - previously giant ants with an almost realistic look with the exception of its square-shaped "teeth" - now look like a different type of animal entirely. Like a spider that's trying too hard to be a knock off of Cloverfield monster designs, which even in their movies are quite bland.
Unlike most modern remakes that don't care at all about the original game's intent, such as the Demon's Souls fiasco, I have a slight hope that this one might turn out okay.
I didn't liked bloodflies very much, they seems too armored (they are not SO strong, it would be ok if there is a normal version and an armed one) and also it looks too much like an alien creature.
for the most part I disagree only with the scavengers, always perceived them as cursed reptiles that only slightly resemble chickens, and about the fact that he has two variations do not see anything wrong, as the original already has a kind of "young" scavengers, which are no different from normal scavengers, and on this compare with cubone, I say, that the same motif can be seen in the original design, there it was clearly seen that the beak is one with what also covers the eyes, indicating that it is some sort of outgrowth, and the same clearly happens with the presented design for the remake, but I agree that he should add a second paler color for the skin and of course sharpen the beak
Gothic monsters remind me of the SW Dark Foces games, they are so similair it's uncanny
Gothic did go through a space stage where basically monsters all looked like aliens, like a fantasy game set on an entirely alien planet but with a medieval society on it. The molerat, the scavenger and the biter are the biggest reminders of this stage.
@@Audio-Man Hmmm intresting, almost as if they tried to do a Darkforces at first.
The new monster designs are terrible. Generic fantasy goblins and the bloodfly is nothing short of comical. Like they tried to hard to make it seem intimidating, but it just looks cringe AF. Its stinger legit looks like a plunger. The original desgins were innovative and iconic. Idk how the old camp looked so true to the original and the monster designs look so untrue and rly just bad. They need to rework these completely.
Gothic 3 ruining the worldbuilding in the Gothic universe... Thank you for calling it out!
It bothered me more than the actual state of the game, back when it came out!
In Gothic1 the monsters are not REAL animals (which have gone through a different evolution in the parallel universe).
But in Gothic1 (2001) the monsters are two things:
- Eurojank (repiloids (monitor lizard, snapper, ...), bleeding zombies, harpies, golem, lurker, shadowwalker, ...)
- the metaphorical representation of humans, which are hordes race (minecrawler, goblin, orcs, wolves, skeletons, troll, swamp shark)
The only population in Renaissance Germany represented as human beings are the Ruhr Poles (West Slavs), everything else is represented metaphorically as hordes, suggesting later mass husbandry, and abroad: mass suicides, mass fallen soldiers, mass panic.
So the screenshots of "Monsters" released by Alkimia Interactive are a complete off-topic:
Anyone who expects Eurojank from the remake, that is: REAL animals that have undergone a different evolution in the parallel universe, has not been shown any animals.
Anyone who expects gothic from the remake, that is: REAL historical people or real races living today who are metaphorically represented as hordes, has not been shown any symbolic metaphors.
Consequently:
Alkimia Interactive are not small children who can be raised by "feedback" or by a "community".
Alkimia Interactive have already proven that they are adults, that they can only miss a complete theme, meaning they can't build anything.
AND: Their showcase trailer has already completely flopped, has not aroused any international interest.
AND: Embracer Group's share price is almost back to where it was in 2019 because they are objectively just failures.
The video is great, explains the fauna of Gothic really well and what makes it so great. However - while I do appreciate the tips for the devs what to change and I dislike the bloodfly the most, as you do - I think that you're too harsh with some aspects of these redesigns. Especially with the Scavenger I'm very open to the changes they make because they look good and the Scavenger still doesn't look a big-ass monster completely destroying you. It still looks like a minor enemy, mostly due to its size (we meanwhile saw in a screenshot) and while it's more reptilian than the original Scavenger, it still got that "happy bird face". Goose do have teeth or at least something similar, I wouldn't mind that detail too much. In my opinion the Scavenger would still be pretty perfect if they made the tail shorter. The black colour or the exoskeleton don't bother me... while they are the weakest monster in the world, they are still dangerous... so they should look like it. I also don't need the goblin to have that animal-like mouth like the original had. Small changes like that are ok if they fit the overall design concept better.
The difference between a young or full grown animal in Gothic is just a size-factor I think. You say that those protrusions for the scavenger make it *more* confusing however. Animals with horns in real life can easily be distinguished from their parents because of their horns. Just take a look at rhinos. The children barely have a single stub where the adults have two obvious horns. Lion cubs are another example. cubs have no mane, adult males do. Granted, lionesses are just scaled up.
The devs have said since that these are just variations between singular specimen, not adult and young scavengers.
@@Audio-ManWill they mate in nature? I do not know if the term "honeycomb" refers to blood hornets? I want to see how hornets are born from the honeycomb in the game. I want the female troll to be stronger and more vicious than the troll. 😅🤣
There aren't enough nests and eggs in these nests to be completely realistic. Although some creatures may be viviparous. But let's assume that in addition to creeping, eggs can be found in all kinds of lizards, scavengers, blood hornets.. And to complete the picture, two digger rats love each other at sunset, well, everyone needs to go to the toilet. let the earth and forests be covered with poop. 😂😂😂And if we found troll grass, then we would have enough reserves of this grass for the whole game. 😇
Because a creature weighing 3 tons likes to eat well... 😅🤣😇
The alchemist's dream is taking a bath in troll droppings...😄😁
Hey, just nit-picking here ;-). Since scavangers are birds it means that they are also dinosaurs. Cuz birds are dinosaurs.
Basically the snappers are based upon the velociraptors from Jurassic Park, since they look similar and they form packs, even though those same velociraptors from the movies are not based upon the true velociraptors but on the Deinonychus instead.
True velociraptor are very very small.
The scavengers are based on terror birds, though, which do not have teeth. Not to mention, even if they did, the scavengers never had teeth in the games themselves, which are the primary source here.
@@Audio-Man Yes yes I know. I was just nit-picking the fact that birds belong to the dinosaur family. In fact they are called avian dinosaurs while T-Rex and the others are called non avian dinosaurs. ;)
Anguirus
Hello ! iam not too hyped about remake because iam playing Returning mod for G2 for years now and i think that G1 remake cant lick the toes to that ... thx for nice video !!!
I think there's a LOT of things that Returning did wrong. The difficulty made the whole mod a slog, it was packed with really unnecessary things and the graphic changes made the art style really incoherent. I'd encourage you to give the Remake a shot, it could turn out to be really great.
13:15 looks like it has teeth in mouth
Good video
Thank you!