So basically, they wanted a controlling stake in a championship winning team while adding nothing to said team. In other words, they were never serious about joining the grid.
The fact Porsche wanted Red Bull to hand over half of the entire F1 operation to a company that also owns Audi/Sauber as a direct competitor on the grid is utterly mind-blowing. Who at Porsche thought anyone would *ever* agree to that!?
afaik VAG owns porsche, audi, VW etc.. just because it a sister company/subsidiary, doesnt mean its like brother sister at home.. they operate just like a single individual entity.
Tbh, i don't believe they really meant to join F1. They probably just wanted some free publicity with, perhaps, a deal on the side: their demands were unrealistic and they knew it.
@@lattepus7888 Porsche AG is owned by VAG, but the Porsche/Piech family has a 53% stake in VAG. So it depends on what you mean by "Porsche". But true, Audi and Porsche has some health rivalry.
Things could change quickly for Redbull after Mateschitz death, you never know what the future holds, it could be the worst decision RB done. But I'm glad it didn't happen, now I can still "hate" on redbull! :D
For the last 25 years or so, whenever there are rumors about Porsche and F1, I always said: "I believe it, when it actually happens!" And every single time I've been proven right. In don't want to be right, I just am...
I think these teams are wary about major manufacturers bailing out on F1 so suddenly in years past, so not surprised teams like Red Bull and Mclaren would not relent to giving Porsche a majority stake.
I agree, especially with an engine manufacturer that has bailed out of F1 twice. RBR's name has become synonymous with victory, just as McLaren and Williams were in the 90s.
Also the cost cap rules and increased amount of sposorship money teams get from much higher attention F1 gets (DTS, celebrities' social media posts) means teams can actually make profits now so why would they sell.
2008 and 2009 was a great example of big manufacturers bailing out when Honda then bmw and Toyota all pulled out. That Honda team that left behind only survived due to Ross brawn and that incredible car that let button to the title where Mercedes then took over after. BMW left sauber on the brink of ruin only for Peter sauber to just about save the team. As for Toyota well they just stopped altogether and moved on to endurance racing and rallying.
Controversial opinion here, but I’m glad Porsche won’t be joining the grid. The arrogance they’ve displayed throughout this process is not what F1 needs. They thought they could just throw some money at Red Bull, rock up on the grid and start raking in the glory with race wins and championships without doing the hard graft. Why? Because they’re Porsche. No thanks, they can stick to their other motorsport programs.
@@royemerson97 no not at all, Ford are just there to help with the hybrid system and also a bit of advertising. Porsche wanted pretty much full control over every aspect of the team outside of just the power unit
Agreed, they have only ever wanted to join on their terms, which they cant do anymore as teams are in a much stronger negotiating position than in previous years. I am just hoping Honda can be cleverer than Porsche and stay in F1 with McLaren or Williams.
I still think Porsche was mostly acting like it was interested as a part of a larger VW group plan to extract maximum concessions from the FIA for Audi's bid. Since they could dangle the promise of two new manufacturers instead of just one. It should have been obvious that the offer they gave RB was something they would never agree too.
@@michaelskoomamacher5652 I get your point, I meant when a new team wants to join F1, the new constructor should add some value to it. GM can easily enters F1 through an existing team just like Ford. Adding a new team is tough, they mist convince the current constructors, Liberty Media and FIA.
Most of the new rules set in 26 was because of the lure of manufacturers, such as Porsche. Some could claim, because of Porsche's public interest, and later Audi. Only to see Porsche with egg on their faces because they wanted to come in, and throw cash, while telling everyone how to win. Maybe that would have worked in the past, and maybe in the future it will again , but for now the reason for the rules changes is looking silly, and probably won't be back
They thought it was the last decade where F1 was desperately in need of new manufacturers, in 2016 let's say that would've worked perfectly, but nowadays with the growth of F1, they don't need half assed interest
The pressure for more teams is growing and there aren't many other interesting entry chances, hyundai I really don't believe, Porsche bailed out and honda, of they enter it will be by buying alpha tauri, so it will be andretti or nothing
I think Scotts take here is spot on. Porsche misjudged their relative value and the relative value of an F1 team. Its Hubris, and F1 can well do without this attitude.
@@TheSlowoldman Not nowadays though. They're the old man talking about how they used to be good. "I'm still good! I just don't want to prove it." Lol ok Porsche
@Izumi Culture I would argue Porsche doesn't need F1.... I am an F1 fan and a Porsche fan.... it's just a simple truth. They are bargaining from a position of power, which F1 isn't used to. That in no way equates to fear to me, so I guess will just agree to disagree.
@@paulcruse The titles of Fernando Alonso/Renault in 05 and 06, Kimi Räikkönen/Ferrari in 07, Ferrari in 08, Lewis Hamilton/Mercedes in 08*, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19 and 20, Nico Rosberg/Mercedes in 16 and Mercedes in 21 speak against this.
@@T_Mo271 sure there's no benefit to existing teams but f1 as a whole? there's got to be a commercial benefit, American team, American driver in the US market. By the time 2026 roles round expect there to already be 4 or 5 races in the US
Under the current agreement, nothing happens in F1 without the teams agreement. And they don't see any benefit in adding more customer teams that will split the prize money.
I always found it strange that two companies under the same banner(owners) were really willing to spend that amount of money to be in F1. Didnt think it would happen
Now that Porsche are confirmed not joining could F1 grant Andretti their entry already. They can't seriously be waiting for Honda to come back for the nth time before letting Andretti be the 11th team??
They're waiting on the Hitech team with Mazepins money laundered through Dubai, so we'll have Nikita Mazepin back on the grid in the eventual 11th team
New teams or bust, not interested in any take overs. So I won't miss Porsche in the least, they never seemed like they were seriously interested anyway.
Not really sure how Porsche lost here. They wanted something under very specific circumstances that happened to not pan out, so they withdrew. I dont think Porsche need F1 and F1 doesnt really need Porsche. I also think a lot of Porsche fans find it much more alluring to see a car racing and then go to a dealership were they can buy a car that looks pretty much like that. You cant really buy an F1 car, which is why I dont think that F1 translated as much into sales as some other racing ventures might. Its only prestige, but it goes both ways obviously. You cant always win. I dont know, for me this just sounds like a bunch of business decisions. So what. Just dont get riled up about it.
The regulation changes were not about Porsche specifically, but about getting the VW group into the sport, which has happened with Audi. The cost and complexity of the MGU-H was a needless waste, and only Merc pretend otherwise. It also made life easier for RBPT, who have to take over the burden from Honda pulling out, partially because of the cost of the PU and the fact it isn't electric enough. I don't know why you would try to twist that.
I'm curious to find out, does anyone know whether Porsche made a move to buy out Alpha Tauri? If not, why not? That to me seemed like their most realistic opportunity outside of starting a project from the ground up.
I don’t know why people are surprised by this. Porsche doesn’t need f1, if they do join the grid it’s because they simply are bored and want to. Everyone already knows Porsche makes fast cars so what f1 tech would actually make them better? Endurance racing fits them better. We know they can compete in a sprint but to see them push their engines to the max for 24 hours without a failure is much better marketing than anything that would come out of F1.
No, They would ruin F1 with their greedy exec who doesn't want the team to be competitive.. I mean Redbull operation is flawless in every sector, Pit Crew, Strategist, Car design.. Why would they want to Control it? I mean yes Redbull spent a lot of money training their pit crew to perform Zero Gravity Pit Stop.. But why they HATED that costly training? If not because they want All money Redbull spent on training should be in Porsche exec's pocket
Porsche buying racing point was never possible. RP were running Mercedes power units at the time, Porsche had no time or inclination to develop their own(still don’t by the look of it) and a Porsche owned team running Mercedes PUs? Can’t see anyone allowing that!
Maybe I'm not understanding the full scale of this, but why isn't Porche trying to buy into the Alphatauri team? There have been talks to sell the team anyway after Dietrich Mateschitz passed away
Alpha tauri uses all of red bulls resources. Same factory same wind tunnel etc. If Porsche were to buy AT they would have to use the red bull facilities which red bull would not allow. Porsche want a quick and easy deal for a team that is well planted in f1 that has all the factories and wind tunnels so Porsche do not have to build their own. Basically buy a team and control them stick a Porsche badge on the car and make millions is what Porsche are trying to do.
Surprised Porsche and Red Bull couldn’t come to terms over something involving Alpha Tauri but there you are. Hopefully now F1 has lost the main name it’s openly courted for years, they’ll be more open to other teams, like Andretti, who should already have the entry they want
Porsche wanted 50% decision making from the best Operational team on the grid.. From Pit Crew, Strategist, and car Design Redbull operates flawlessly.. So why they wanted to interfere that flawless operation? It's because clearly Porsche only wanted the money not the demanding task to build a midfield team, spend money and developing the team to the top.. And it means Redbull's ridiculous training cost would be cut.. Remember Redbull is the only team that willing to spend so much money just to perform Zero Gravity Pit Stop stunt to train their Pit Crew.. With Porsche control it would be More Beneficial for Porsche to use that money to feed on Porsche's exec..
@@kevinwho. Pfffttt.. So you are saying they did not train their pit crew at all? And somehow they consistently get the DHL best pit crew awards every year? I pointed out Zero G stunts to prove they trained their pit crew way beyond most teams doing.. Sure it's more of a marketing but to successfully do that stunt they've already trained their pit crew and it cost Redbull money.. The one thing that Porsche wanted to take from Redbull
@@naufalpahlevi8976 ?? I didn’t say any of that & I think you mean DHL fastest pitstop award which Ferrari have won, both of the races this year. Correlation does not mean causation, the zero g stuff is just marketing man it’s not that deep fanboy lol. Every F1 team train their pit countless of hours.
This all said I still don't get a few things. Is Audi playing its F1 game for marketing its almost fully electrified cars? As it plans to electrify its full line up. This doesn't really make any sense even when using carbon neutral fuels. What's the point? Secondly, Porsche, in my opinion, doesn't care if it gets into F1 as much as the video thinks it does. It has the best car sales in the world, it can't use its flat 6 engine in F1, it's developing its own carbon neutral fuels I guess at price of $100 million in Chile which is significantly less than gaining a stake in F1 team. I don't really see a point for Porsche to come into F1.
Porsche doing a deal with Red Bull sounds only good on the surface because in the overall scheme of things a very big clash of opinion will lead to a huge downfall for both. It's good that it didn't materialize. If it were say a struggling F1 outfit, I don't see any problem for Porsche to make their entry.
Porsche wanted to ruin F1, Porsche wants to make Redbull basically the new Ferrari who needs to wait The car Manufacturers Exec decision before making an action
KIA or someone should leak a rumour that they want to join F1 and then string reporters along for a couple of years for a bunch of free publicity and then just drop out.
I think people underestimate the money it takes to develop a world class engine , look at Honda they suffered for so long before getting on top of the project. Ferrari & Renault engine have been around for so long but still unable to compete
A major contributing factor to Honda's problems during their time with McLaren were the "size zero" engine dimensions demanded by Ron Dennis. It's quite telling that the moment Honda moved to Alpha Tauri and were told by Red Bull, "build whatever engine you want to build, we'll just build the car around it.", their fortunes changed dramatically, and after a year with Red Bull, Honda actually managed to scale the whole thing down to be even smaller than the size-zero design they struggled so much with. The engine was compromised from the start and would likely never have achieved the potential the redesign has had with the freedom afforded by Red Bull
No one should be sad with this.. Porsche clearly wanted Redbull to be the next Ferrari circus clown who every decision making needs to be halted until the car manufacturers exec approved that decision.. We already have Ferrari and Renault the most incompetent works team on the grid, We don't need to make Redbull as incompetent as them just because they need to wait Porsche's decision in their operation
Shame on both Porsche and F1. Porsche for the disgusting way they approached F1. And F1 for how they treat potential teams like Andretti. We have not had a new team for far to long. Audi is NOT a new team they just bought one.
The ‘solution’ is to allow Porsche to build the power units that Audi and potential customer teams would run. VW gets a works team, and Porsche gets a presence in formula one. But then Audi also has a prodigious pedigree and I’m more than happy to see them on the grid, though potentially the marketing profile is greater with Porsche involvement for the VW group
As a Porsche owner and fan of their other motorsport programs, I am glad Porsche did not join as f1 is a luxury not a reasonable investment, they will not sell extra cars by having f1 technology in it, everyone knows the endurance races are their thing and their pedigree in that regard is unmatched. Mercedes needs a 2.5 million car to beat a Porsche on the nordschleife so I don't think it is a big loss for Porsche. Not to mention for the f1 teams it makes no money. I don't see it as a big loss considering the the barrier of entry is so expensive, you might as well be robbed.
porsche don't need to join f1 because they already have enough success and reputation in so many other series. there's no need for porsche to join f1 for competition or advertising because their reputation precedes them and they have so many other successful projects, including a new hypercar
@@Pepe-dq2ib no but the point is that porsche are already working on this huge hypercar project that needs some improvements, throwing in f1 would compromise both
@@Pepe-dq2ib nice. I think it will take quite some time for any team to do that. The closest one was SCG back in Monza, but that was it. Can't wait to see the Sebring VoD later today.
Yeah, Porsche is big but they aren't bigger than Red Bull, so it was silly thinking their name carried that much weight that they could just demand and expect the teams to buy into that.....
@@ihavewaited90daystochangem51 then i would advice you to make not so quick googling and checr source dates and also remember that there are 2 porsches AG and SE
While it's seems fair game to laugh at Porsche for wasting everyones time and ending up with nothing , Honda deserves a good old laugh as well, HRC staff went through hell with McLaren, partnered with Redbull have the most powerful/reliable power unit on the grid and nobody wants to partner with them because they are aware Honda is a pull the plug type of manufacturer. Its so bad the McLaren are interested in Redbull Ford power units than tl team up with their old nemesis.
A few years ago Porsche did actually make its own F1 engines even tested them since Porsche higher up said no F1 they pulled the plug and transfered their personnel to Audi. Porsche right now may want to focus on Endurance racing I mean Audi pulled the plug on its LMDh program to make way for F1 while the LMDh program got transfered to Lamborghini. Ferrari can focus on its hypercar because the cost cap benefitted them in the long run instead of firing people from their jobs they can reroute it to other motosport programs while giving factory support to teams. I mean the hypercar program is done in conjuction with AF Corse. I doubt Mclaren will ever have a LMdh or a hypercar program because Mclaren is just not big as Ferrari also i doubt privateers would be successful as they were in the 80s and 90s. Mclaren won Lemans in 1995 with a privateer car i doubt that success will be repeated especially today.
I never want to hear porsche in f1 until they have two cars lined up for the season opening race. Every rumour of sale or team going bust is going to have ppl saying ohh porsche could buy them, even if it’s a terrible prospect and has ridiculous circumstances.
Porsche seem to do this every 10 years. If they really wanted to be F1 they could be with a re-badge Audi engine, Buy in by paying a % towards the Audi engine project. They also had Andretti as a potential partner who probably would go have been flexible if it meant getting into F1. The rebranding and taking control of an F1 team (were they going to provide an engine, they seemed to want Red bull to build an engine and car) for a bit of cash wouldn't really appeal to an established F1 team as there is little to no benefit.
Lol. If Andretti in that hypothetical case accepted, then the Andretti brand is lost in F1. Since Porsche would take a major part of that team and name it to itself after some time. Being a f disaster…
What Porsche should have done with Red bull is bid for 100% of Red Bull power trains and used those facilities to build its own independent engine. That would have been successful.
Williams and McLaren might not be winning Championships anymore , but someone buying them and then Changing their names would be a tragedy if it ever happened I am glad that Williams got to keep their name after getting sold , and did not get renamed to something like "Dorilton Capital Racing"
F1 is in a great place...now, but it's mind boggling that teams like McLaren (incompetent clown show) and Williams (permanent back marker) are willing to live on nostalgic history and continue to be basically non-competitive. The sport will not continue to grow if 2-3 teams continually dominate, the Drive to Survive phenomena will wear off by 2026...
If only there were a feeder team currently at the back of the grid that are moving from Italy to a more convenient spot in the UK & are also changing their name because the brand isn't selling...
Why? What are Porsche even bringing to the table at this point? A rebadged Audi PU and a bunch of corporate meddling from Stuttgart. At that point Williams would be better off just buying customer PUs off Audi directly.
Porsche wanted too much but had too little to bargain with. Who in their right mind goes to RB and treats them as if they were Williams? They don't need rescuing, no team really does anymore, and I'm sure they didn't want to buy into a car that's on the back of the grid.
The moment that they announced they didn't want to either build a brand new engine or build a new team, I knew their participation was worthless. I really thought Audi was gonna be the less likely brand, yet their intent to actually contribute with a brand new engine changed that.
Porsche didn't "blow it", they just don't have the interest in pursuing the deal further. F1 doesn't have much offer Porsche that it doesn't get from other forms of racing.
Porsche: So once we' own the team Red Bull: When you have a stake in our team. Porsche: We will be in charge Red Bull: You will provide financial, technological and logistical support as we continue to run the team. Porsche: We will dictate the direction of the company, hire drivers and make engineering decisions. Red Bull: Red Bull will decide the direction of the company, Christian Horner will control hiring and Adrian Newey remains in charge of all engineering decisions. Porsche: We fear there is a language barrier issue. We are giving you our specific instructions and you are not following them, are our instructions unclear? Red Bull: No, your requests have been perfectly clear...
Phenomenal video right here. Manufacturers need to commit to joining F1 and respect the sport enough to have a long term plan. Kudos to Ford, Cadillac and Audi👏
I used to talk to someone relatively high up in Porche (high enough that they would be in regular contact with head office). They constantly agitated to get into F1, and will be furious they let this slip. Guess that's what happens when you try to do it on the cheap and with an assumption of the high ground.
Kind of a good thing since if Porsche joins F1 and makes their own engines and power terrains, it's basically over for any F1 team 💀 It's gonna be the least competitive sh ever with them winning for the next 20 years 😭😭
The Haas business model is based on buying most of the car from Ferrari. Porsche won't do that, and Ferrari likely wouldn't sell them parts. Haas doesn't have the staff or facilities to build an entire car from scratch including a power unit.
In all fairness to Porsche, they have a reputation they need to uphold. In pretty much every racing series they either are currently or often have been the dominant force. It doesn't make sense for them to start with anyone other than the most dominant team. Building up a team to dominate a sport like this is a decade-long effort (according to Lawrence Stroll), and even Porsche's expertise wouldn't produce a clean-sheet design that's immediately at the top of the grid.
Would have loved them with Williams & have a modern take on the Rothmans livery on the cars,but it is what it is,hopefully Andretti are also out if a big name like Porsche isnt here then i dont see why they would let a low name in.
But Andretti is committed in making an eleventh team, and they have GM backing. Porsche wanted to buy a part in a successful team and to have decision power in said team, which is not enough for anyone in the grid currently
I was really excited at the prospect of a Porsche F1 team. Only seeking a sponsorship deal and not wanting to run an actual race team has negatively skewed who and what I thought Porsche were.
It makes zero sense that they didn't go after Williams. They are owned by a private equity firm and clearly want to cash out. RB or Mclaren never made any sense.
If they're coming in as a Power Unit supplier or a works team, all they had to do was look at what happened to Honda. All the success they have right now isn't worth the embarrassment of the McLaren debacle. It's been years, and now they're winning, and in my mind I still see Honda as a shit brand. Audi is about to find out the true price of F1.
Honda a shit brand ? Honda's issue before joing up with RedBull wasnt of their own doing. It was McLaren's philosophy of size Zero and the fact that Honda joined after the hybrids were already developed anc they werevplaying catch up from the start. Well they caught up and with the WINGS RedBull ga e them they flew by Ferrari and even better the WOKEcedes Benz too !!
This is the second time that Porche/VW has left a partner standing at the altar. It was VW that wanted hybrid engines in F1. They partnered with Williams when the new engine specification was being developed. William's stonewalled on their behalf. Some of the engine suppliers were open to hybrids others like Ferrari were against it. Over nearly two years the discussions went on with everyone eventually agreeing on hybrid power trains. VW walked away without a deal with Williams. William's had no hybrid engine deal. Although Merc were prepared to supply Williams with engines Maclaren would not allow it. Once Dennis left and Merc got their own team, a deal was done. VW's concession to Williams was to take the mechanical kers (flywheel) that Williams developed.
So Formula 1 changed it's rules to accommodate Porsche, but won't allow Andretti on the grid even though Andretti has jumped through every single hoop placed in it's path. Make it make sense.
@@RoyMatzem Do you have a link to where Andretti has been granted that position on the grid? I can't find anything that says that it's been approved by the FIA or F1.
@@EchoMirage72 They didnt granted position to anyone... They opened to 2 new teams enters in 2026, the interesed have present they offer until June, so far only 1 team presented; Andretti. So its Andretti vs nobody. How they can lose?
I think Porsche doesn't care that much to be honest. In the sense that they are not very desperate to get in, they won't get in if they are not happy with the conditions
This was redbull playing games to get the engine advantage they been fucking around with for the past couple years. Insane how they’ve been allowed to get away with it. Creating “redbull powertrains” while renting all the Honda staff who’ve built F1 engines for years and now getting an engine manufacturing advantage because ford(the essential title sponsor) is a “new engine manufacturer”. Disgraceful from the FIA
Redbull will never be making its own engine. Redbull powertrains was just a nice overhyped cope from redbull. The engine themselves they were developing were already having problems lets not forget delays also you got to test the engine to see if it will work. Redbull gave the finger to Porsche only to realise their powertrains program will cost a lot of money to develop now Ford came and bailed their asses. Its pretty insulting how redbull got away with it.
4:35 is telling - teams would rather settle for mediocrity as long as it produces cash flow than cede control in a venture that takes risk to be more successful. That will entrench the top teams.
i've been saying it but porsche only wanted to partner with the top team. Now that only losing teams would be interested in any partnership, they dont want in to F1
They really should have gone the new entry route. Even if they didn't share a power unit, they definitely could have taken components from Audi Sauber to build the chassis and body work. But that's just my take
So basically, they wanted a controlling stake in a championship winning team while adding nothing to said team. In other words, they were never serious about joining the grid.
Ramadhan Mubarak, Souldry.
They would add money
@@0AFonseca nah, Red Bull already bigger than Porsche
@@LSchelvin71 you actually believe this dont you
The most Porsche thing Porsche could do tbh
The fact Porsche wanted Red Bull to hand over half of the entire F1 operation to a company that also owns Audi/Sauber as a direct competitor on the grid is utterly mind-blowing. Who at Porsche thought anyone would *ever* agree to that!?
Def not red bull who valued their independence since the beginning
afaik VAG owns porsche, audi, VW etc.. just because it a sister company/subsidiary, doesnt mean its like brother sister at home.. they operate just like a single individual entity.
Tbh, i don't believe they really meant to join F1. They probably just wanted some free publicity with, perhaps, a deal on the side: their demands were unrealistic and they knew it.
@@lattepus7888 Porsche AG is owned by VAG, but the Porsche/Piech family has a 53% stake in VAG. So it depends on what you mean by "Porsche". But true, Audi and Porsche has some health rivalry.
Things could change quickly for Redbull after Mateschitz death, you never know what the future holds, it could be the worst decision RB done. But I'm glad it didn't happen, now I can still "hate" on redbull! :D
The last time Porsche failed this hard, they were building the VK 45.01 (P).
💀
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McLaren TAG were Porche
For the last 25 years or so, whenever there are rumors about Porsche and F1, I always said: "I believe it, when it actually happens!" And every single time I've been proven right. In don't want to be right, I just am...
All hail the Prophet of the New dawn of motor sport KeK!
I think these teams are wary about major manufacturers bailing out on F1 so suddenly in years past, so not surprised teams like Red Bull and Mclaren would not relent to giving Porsche a majority stake.
I agree, especially with an engine manufacturer that has bailed out of F1 twice. RBR's name has become synonymous with victory, just as McLaren and Williams were in the 90s.
That wasn't the reason why. The dealbreaker for them was to lose 50% control for not much else in return
@@phawxhunter Knock Kock: Honda
Also the cost cap rules and increased amount of sposorship money teams get from much higher attention F1 gets (DTS, celebrities' social media posts) means teams can actually make profits now so why would they sell.
2008 and 2009 was a great example of big manufacturers bailing out when Honda then bmw and Toyota all pulled out. That Honda team that left behind only survived due to Ross brawn and that incredible car that let button to the title where Mercedes then took over after. BMW left sauber on the brink of ruin only for Peter sauber to just about save the team. As for Toyota well they just stopped altogether and moved on to endurance racing and rallying.
Controversial opinion here, but I’m glad Porsche won’t be joining the grid. The arrogance they’ve displayed throughout this process is not what F1 needs. They thought they could just throw some money at Red Bull, rock up on the grid and start raking in the glory with race wins and championships without doing the hard graft. Why? Because they’re Porsche. No thanks, they can stick to their other motorsport programs.
💯 well said
Isn’t ford doing what you described? lol
@@royemerson97 but they didn't ask for 50% of red bulll. that's the difference.
@@royemerson97 no not at all, Ford are just there to help with the hybrid system and also a bit of advertising. Porsche wanted pretty much full control over every aspect of the team outside of just the power unit
Agreed, they have only ever wanted to join on their terms, which they cant do anymore as teams are in a much stronger negotiating position than in previous years. I am just hoping Honda can be cleverer than Porsche and stay in F1 with McLaren or Williams.
I still think Porsche was mostly acting like it was interested as a part of a larger VW group plan to extract maximum concessions from the FIA for Audi's bid. Since they could dangle the promise of two new manufacturers instead of just one. It should have been obvious that the offer they gave RB was something they would never agree too.
Very likely
Hopefully this will make F1 and the grid more willing to accommodate andretti Cadillac
Not likely. F1 as in liberty media probably wants it to happen, it's the current teams that aren't all that happy with it.
The problem with GM is they are not willing to build a new power unit, maybe Honda can complete their trio
@@sam-nariman6236 and that's a problem now? *winks at Aston and Alfa*
Yes please
@@michaelskoomamacher5652 I get your point, I meant when a new team wants to join F1, the new constructor should add some value to it. GM can easily enters F1 through an existing team just like Ford. Adding a new team is tough, they mist convince the current constructors, Liberty Media and FIA.
I'm wondering why Porsche didn't try to buy Alpha Tauri..
Or alpine, williams, haas, etc.
Prolly wanted to get into the sport, and be at the top right away
because as the video said, they want a convenient deal. They basically want to piggy back an already winning team, instead of building/raising one.
@@Kaimax61 like Ford lol
Alpha Tauri is not for sale, thats why
Most of the new rules set in 26 was because of the lure of manufacturers, such as Porsche. Some could claim, because of Porsche's public interest, and later Audi. Only to see Porsche with egg on their faces because they wanted to come in, and throw cash, while telling everyone how to win. Maybe that would have worked in the past, and maybe in the future it will again , but for now the reason for the rules changes is looking silly, and probably won't be back
Hopefully is.
They thought it was the last decade where F1 was desperately in need of new manufacturers, in 2016 let's say that would've worked perfectly, but nowadays with the growth of F1, they don't need half assed interest
Now I hope Andretti gets a team.
Nah F1 will keep throwing them to the kerb whilst chasing the uninterested manufacturers
@@Wizzkidwas it’s so messed up
@@kevinkevin6542 It pisses me off so much
The pressure for more teams is growing and there aren't many other interesting entry chances, hyundai I really don't believe, Porsche bailed out and honda, of they enter it will be by buying alpha tauri, so it will be andretti or nothing
Andretti will get the 11th team, but how soon, thats a inflating big question
I think Scotts take here is spot on. Porsche misjudged their relative value and the relative value of an F1 team.
Its Hubris, and F1 can well do without this attitude.
using attitude and F1 in the same sentence
you must be joking
F1 was always about attitude
youre right of course, but still
cant find a more pretentious thing than F1
Porsche was never going to enter F1 they wanted the free advertising, they do it every few years.
Yep. Every 4 years in fact, Ming.
@Izumi Culture Porsche is far from the laughing stock of the Motorsport industry....... that is just not true. They have a very storied history.
@@TheSlowoldman Not nowadays though. They're the old man talking about how they used to be good. "I'm still good! I just don't want to prove it." Lol ok Porsche
@@go-away-5555 You need to do a bit more research if you think Porsche is resting on it's laurels.....
@Izumi Culture I would argue Porsche doesn't need F1.... I am an F1 fan and a Porsche fan.... it's just a simple truth. They are bargaining from a position of power, which F1 isn't used to. That in no way equates to fear to me, so I guess will just agree to disagree.
I could only imagine such a deal with AlphaTauri, but not with Red Bull.
Yeah they were rumors about redbull selling alpha tauri
But you need Ross Brawn or Adrian Newey to win in F1
@@paulcruse The titles of Fernando Alonso/Renault in 05 and 06, Kimi Räikkönen/Ferrari in 07, Ferrari in 08, Lewis Hamilton/Mercedes in 08*, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19 and 20, Nico Rosberg/Mercedes in 16 and Mercedes in 21 speak against this.
Thank God F1 teams value and respect others aspects too and may it continue to be so.
Yes.
I can't wait to see how they come up with reasons to deny Andretti now that the preferred entry they were courting for years shrugged and gave up.
F1 simply doesn't want Andretti. There's no benefit to them. They're happy with 10 teams.
@@T_Mo271 sure there's no benefit to existing teams but f1 as a whole? there's got to be a commercial benefit, American team, American driver in the US market. By the time 2026 roles round expect there to already be 4 or 5 races in the US
Under the current agreement, nothing happens in F1 without the teams agreement. And they don't see any benefit in adding more customer teams that will split the prize money.
@@T_Mo271 F1 might not want an 11th team but it seems the fans do. Fans are the ones that pay the bills.
No, not really. It's the sponsors and the broadcast advertising where the money is.
I always found it strange that two companies under the same banner(owners) were really willing to spend that amount of money to be in F1. Didnt think it would happen
Now that Porsche are confirmed not joining could F1 grant Andretti their entry already. They can't seriously be waiting for Honda to come back for the nth time before letting Andretti be the 11th team??
Thats quite original.
F1: He he Honda goes rum rum
They opened entries for two new teams, they wouldn't need to reject Andretti to accept Honda.
They're waiting on the Hitech team with Mazepins money laundered through Dubai, so we'll have Nikita Mazepin back on the grid in the eventual 11th team
@@-TheUnkownUser you think?
New teams or bust, not interested in any take overs. So I won't miss Porsche in the least, they never seemed like they were seriously interested anyway.
Agree. Porsche only good on FIAWEC or IMSA but pathetic on F1.
At this point, I'm probably going to be dead by the time Porsche ever enters F1.
Yea me too. Been waiting for a long time
Writing was kind of on the wall after the Red Bull talks fell apart
Agree.
Not really sure how Porsche lost here. They wanted something under very specific circumstances that happened to not pan out, so they withdrew. I dont think Porsche need F1 and F1 doesnt really need Porsche. I also think a lot of Porsche fans find it much more alluring to see a car racing and then go to a dealership were they can buy a car that looks pretty much like that. You cant really buy an F1 car, which is why I dont think that F1 translated as much into sales as some other racing ventures might. Its only prestige, but it goes both ways obviously. You cant always win. I dont know, for me this just sounds like a bunch of business decisions. So what. Just dont get riled up about it.
Great news. Now they can concentrate on the WEC and GT racing
The regulation changes were not about Porsche specifically, but about getting the VW group into the sport, which has happened with Audi. The cost and complexity of the MGU-H was a needless waste, and only Merc pretend otherwise. It also made life easier for RBPT, who have to take over the burden from Honda pulling out, partially because of the cost of the PU and the fact it isn't electric enough. I don't know why you would try to twist that.
I'm curious to find out, does anyone know whether Porsche made a move to buy out Alpha Tauri? If not, why not? That to me seemed like their most realistic opportunity outside of starting a project from the ground up.
Alpha Tauri is not for sale. What RedBull is considering is whether to move them to Milton Keynes or stay at Faenza.
They wanted a top team, instant progress and development right away.
I don’t know why people are surprised by this. Porsche doesn’t need f1, if they do join the grid it’s because they simply are bored and want to. Everyone already knows Porsche makes fast cars so what f1 tech would actually make them better? Endurance racing fits them better. We know they can compete in a sprint but to see them push their engines to the max for 24 hours without a failure is much better marketing than anything that would come out of F1.
They should've brought Racing Point back when they out of financial
No, They would ruin F1 with their greedy exec who doesn't want the team to be competitive..
I mean Redbull operation is flawless in every sector, Pit Crew, Strategist, Car design.. Why would they want to Control it? I mean yes Redbull spent a lot of money training their pit crew to perform Zero Gravity Pit Stop.. But why they HATED that costly training? If not because they want All money Redbull spent on training should be in Porsche exec's pocket
Porsche buying racing point was never possible. RP were running Mercedes power units at the time, Porsche had no time or inclination to develop their own(still don’t by the look of it) and a Porsche owned team running Mercedes PUs? Can’t see anyone allowing that!
Maybe I'm not understanding the full scale of this, but why isn't Porche trying to buy into the Alphatauri team? There have been talks to sell the team anyway after Dietrich Mateschitz passed away
Alpha tauri uses all of red bulls resources. Same factory same wind tunnel etc. If Porsche were to buy AT they would have to use the red bull facilities which red bull would not allow. Porsche want a quick and easy deal for a team that is well planted in f1 that has all the factories and wind tunnels so Porsche do not have to build their own. Basically buy a team and control them stick a Porsche badge on the car and make millions is what Porsche are trying to do.
Surprised Porsche and Red Bull couldn’t come to terms over something involving Alpha Tauri but there you are. Hopefully now F1 has lost the main name it’s openly courted for years, they’ll be more open to other teams, like Andretti, who should already have the entry they want
Porsche wanted 50% decision making from the best Operational team on the grid.. From Pit Crew, Strategist, and car Design Redbull operates flawlessly.. So why they wanted to interfere that flawless operation?
It's because clearly Porsche only wanted the money not the demanding task to build a midfield team, spend money and developing the team to the top.. And it means Redbull's ridiculous training cost would be cut.. Remember Redbull is the only team that willing to spend so much money just to perform Zero Gravity Pit Stop stunt to train their Pit Crew.. With Porsche control it would be More Beneficial for Porsche to use that money to feed on Porsche's exec..
@@naufalpahlevi8976 happy ramadhan 2023, Naufal. From Purwanti Allan.
@@naufalpahlevi8976 lmao relax rb fanboy. The zero g stuff is for marketing not training lol
@@kevinwho. Pfffttt.. So you are saying they did not train their pit crew at all? And somehow they consistently get the DHL best pit crew awards every year?
I pointed out Zero G stunts to prove they trained their pit crew way beyond most teams doing.. Sure it's more of a marketing but to successfully do that stunt they've already trained their pit crew and it cost Redbull money.. The one thing that Porsche wanted to take from Redbull
@@naufalpahlevi8976 ?? I didn’t say any of that & I think you mean DHL fastest pitstop award which Ferrari have won, both of the races this year. Correlation does not mean causation, the zero g stuff is just marketing man it’s not that deep fanboy lol. Every F1 team train their pit countless of hours.
This all said I still don't get a few things. Is Audi playing its F1 game for marketing its almost fully electrified cars? As it plans to electrify its full line up. This doesn't really make any sense even when using carbon neutral fuels. What's the point?
Secondly, Porsche, in my opinion, doesn't care if it gets into F1 as much as the video thinks it does. It has the best car sales in the world, it can't use its flat 6 engine in F1, it's developing its own carbon neutral fuels I guess at price of $100 million in Chile which is significantly less than gaining a stake in F1 team. I don't really see a point for Porsche to come into F1.
Porsche doing a deal with Red Bull sounds only good on the surface because in the overall scheme of things a very big clash of opinion will lead to a huge downfall for both. It's good that it didn't materialize. If it were say a struggling F1 outfit, I don't see any problem for Porsche to make their entry.
Porsche wanted to ruin F1, Porsche wants to make Redbull basically the new Ferrari who needs to wait The car Manufacturers Exec decision before making an action
KIA or someone should leak a rumour that they want to join F1 and then string reporters along for a couple of years for a bunch of free publicity and then just drop out.
I think people underestimate the money it takes to develop a world class engine , look at Honda they suffered for so long before getting on top of the project. Ferrari & Renault engine have been around for so long but still unable to compete
A major contributing factor to Honda's problems during their time with McLaren were the "size zero" engine dimensions demanded by Ron Dennis. It's quite telling that the moment Honda moved to Alpha Tauri and were told by Red Bull, "build whatever engine you want to build, we'll just build the car around it.", their fortunes changed dramatically, and after a year with Red Bull, Honda actually managed to scale the whole thing down to be even smaller than the size-zero design they struggled so much with. The engine was compromised from the start and would likely never have achieved the potential the redesign has had with the freedom afforded by Red Bull
F1's idea of more cars on the grid is nothing more than lip service until it actually happens.
They messed up when they thought they would buy 50% shake on redbull and replace Horner with Seidel lol
They messed it up whole lot further.
Both Audi and Porsche in F1 never really made sense to me in the first place.
unfortunately it's kinda sad but it's very tough restriction they are
No one should be sad with this.. Porsche clearly wanted Redbull to be the next Ferrari circus clown who every decision making needs to be halted until the car manufacturers exec approved that decision..
We already have Ferrari and Renault the most incompetent works team on the grid, We don't need to make Redbull as incompetent as them just because they need to wait Porsche's decision in their operation
AimanFitri0IV, have u watched news yesterday that Setsuna Yuki has a new VA in the form of Coco Hayashi? I call her as LoveLive's Max Verstappen.
Shame on both Porsche and F1.
Porsche for the disgusting way they approached F1.
And
F1 for how they treat potential teams like Andretti.
We have not had a new team for far to long. Audi is NOT a new team they just bought one.
The ‘solution’ is to allow Porsche to build the power units that Audi and potential customer teams would run. VW gets a works team, and Porsche gets a presence in formula one. But then Audi also has a prodigious pedigree and I’m more than happy to see them on the grid, though potentially the marketing profile is greater with Porsche involvement for the VW group
Porsche seemingly only good on Sportscar racing.
As a Porsche owner and fan of their other motorsport programs, I am glad Porsche did not join as f1 is a luxury not a reasonable investment, they will not sell extra cars by having f1 technology in it, everyone knows the endurance races are their thing and their pedigree in that regard is unmatched. Mercedes needs a 2.5 million car to beat a Porsche on the nordschleife so I don't think it is a big loss for Porsche. Not to mention for the f1 teams it makes no money. I don't see it as a big loss considering the the barrier of entry is so expensive, you might as well be robbed.
porsche don't need to join f1 because they already have enough success and reputation in so many other series. there's no need for porsche to join f1 for competition or advertising because their reputation precedes them and they have so many other successful projects, including a new hypercar
they beat toyota in hypercar?
@@Pepe-dq2ib no but the point is that porsche are already working on this huge hypercar project that needs some improvements, throwing in f1 would compromise both
@@Pepe-dq2ib nice. I think it will take quite some time for any team to do that. The closest one was SCG back in Monza, but that was it. Can't wait to see the Sebring VoD later today.
This dude is high on copium 😂
@@Pepe-dq2ibthey did beat toyota in LMP1 numerous times
Good, leaves a more plausible option for Andretti Cadillac! 👍
Yeah, Porsche is big but they aren't bigger than Red Bull, so it was silly thinking their name carried that much weight that they could just demand and expect the teams to buy into that.....
They are probably the most successful manufacturer in motorsport ever so I'm not sure where this is coming from but I get what you mean
They are bigger than redbull, not just red bull racing, but the whole energy drink company
@@nsp585
A quick googling will reveal that you're wrong by several billions lmao
@@ihavewaited90daystochangem51 then i would advice you to make not so quick googling and checr source dates and also remember that there are 2 porsches AG and SE
@paper plane expand your horizons. You will be very pleasantly surprised!
wow this vid was stretched content wise for that 8 min mark
welcome to half of RUclips's content :(
I am more curious on how Honda is gonna be joining in 2026 , I think it’s with either Mclaren Or Andretti or both
Probably with McLaren, since Andretti is already commited with Cadillac.
@@kristoffermangila Cadillac will just suply the badge, so they could still use a rebranded Honda,
Andretti won't be in F1 lol
While it's seems fair game to laugh at Porsche for wasting everyones time and ending up with nothing , Honda deserves a good old laugh as well, HRC staff went through hell with McLaren, partnered with Redbull have the most powerful/reliable power unit on the grid and nobody wants to partner with them because they are aware Honda is a pull the plug type of manufacturer. Its so bad the McLaren are interested in Redbull Ford power units than tl team up with their old nemesis.
A few years ago Porsche did actually make its own F1 engines even tested them since Porsche higher up said no F1 they pulled the plug and transfered their personnel to Audi.
Porsche right now may want to focus on Endurance racing I mean Audi pulled the plug on its LMDh program to make way for F1 while the LMDh program got transfered to Lamborghini.
Ferrari can focus on its hypercar because the cost cap benefitted them in the long run instead of firing people from their jobs they can reroute it to other motosport programs while giving factory support to teams. I mean the hypercar program is done in conjuction with AF Corse.
I doubt Mclaren will ever have a LMdh or a hypercar program because Mclaren is just not big as Ferrari also i doubt privateers would be successful as they were in the 80s and 90s. Mclaren won Lemans in 1995 with a privateer car i doubt that success will be repeated especially today.
Audi LMDh program was not transferred to Lamborghini. Lamborghini was a separate project ever since the beginning.
I never want to hear porsche in f1 until they have two cars lined up for the season opening race.
Every rumour of sale or team going bust is going to have ppl saying ohh porsche could buy them, even if it’s a terrible prospect and has ridiculous circumstances.
Porsche seem to do this every 10 years. If they really wanted to be F1 they could be with a re-badge Audi engine, Buy in by paying a % towards the Audi engine project. They also had Andretti as a potential partner who probably would go have been flexible if it meant getting into F1. The rebranding and taking control of an F1 team (were they going to provide an engine, they seemed to want Red bull to build an engine and car) for a bit of cash wouldn't really appeal to an established F1 team as there is little to no benefit.
Lol. If Andretti in that hypothetical case accepted, then the Andretti brand is lost in F1. Since Porsche would take a major part of that team and name it to itself after some time. Being a f disaster…
If Porsche had a re-badged Audi engine, this would be them accepting Audi as superior
They did blow it. But they're probably better off without F1. Why not just keep building on their successes?
Meh, we'll take Audi
Finally quattro F1 cars
I hope Audi also looses the bid because I don’t want to see Alfa Romeo go
@@dontaskmewhy266 it has already won "the bid" (which to be clear wasn't the case) F1 and FIA have already accepted their entry
@@dontaskmewhy266 Alfa Romeo was only the name. nothing more
@@mutantgeralt I’m aware. I’m just saying I don’t want it to go not that it would change anything
What Porsche should have done with Red bull is bid for 100% of Red Bull power trains and used those facilities to build its own independent engine. That would have been successful.
Is anyone else fed-up of teams buying existing teams? We want additional teams!
Teams don't want extra teams, so manufactures need to buy existing team. Its the teams fault. I to demand Andretti on the grid with a new team!
Williams and McLaren might not be winning Championships anymore , but someone buying them and then Changing their names would be a tragedy if it ever happened
I am glad that Williams got to keep their name after getting sold , and did not get renamed to something like "Dorilton Capital Racing"
Audi already is in and let's face it, Andretti/Cadillac in F1 is something racing fans in general would very much like to see.
F1 is in a great place...now, but it's mind boggling that teams like McLaren (incompetent clown show) and Williams (permanent back marker) are willing to live on nostalgic history and continue to be basically non-competitive. The sport will not continue to grow if 2-3 teams continually dominate, the Drive to Survive phenomena will wear off by 2026...
If only there were a feeder team currently at the back of the grid that are moving from Italy to a more convenient spot in the UK & are also changing their name because the brand isn't selling...
Porsche Williams would be brilliant for both parties
Why? What are Porsche even bringing to the table at this point? A rebadged Audi PU and a bunch of corporate meddling from Stuttgart. At that point Williams would be better off just buying customer PUs off Audi directly.
This makes andreti entry more likely.
Yep. But even that its 30/70.
Not really
Nah
@@purwantiallan5089 Why? They are the only candidate so far, and the line deal is June. its 99/1 already
@@RoyMatzem I think the same, especially after general motors came in.
Such a good looking car livery though, a shame it won't see the light of day.
So this opens up a spot for Cadillac Andretti!
Yes. The only one left right now.
No it doesn't. Porsche never intented to join as an 11th team.
Nope. Both VW group never intended to make new team.
Bet they would have used something like Rodge's shaker to fis porpoising problem.
Porsche wanted too much but had too little to bargain with.
Who in their right mind goes to RB and treats them as if they were Williams? They don't need rescuing, no team really does anymore, and I'm sure they didn't want to buy into a car that's on the back of the grid.
It’s easy. Lance Stroll sells his Aston Martin stake.
The moment that they announced they didn't want to either build a brand new engine or build a new team, I knew their participation was worthless. I really thought Audi was gonna be the less likely brand, yet their intent to actually contribute with a brand new engine changed that.
F1 should do anything to get Porsche into F1.
They have and Porsche still said errr no!
This is good in a way because we'll be able to see their continued presence in the WEC.
That Audi livery is sick.🥰
Porsche didn't "blow it", they just don't have the interest in pursuing the deal further. F1 doesn't have much offer Porsche that it doesn't get from other forms of racing.
Porsche: So once we' own the team
Red Bull: When you have a stake in our team.
Porsche: We will be in charge
Red Bull: You will provide financial, technological and logistical support as we continue to run the team.
Porsche: We will dictate the direction of the company, hire drivers and make engineering decisions.
Red Bull: Red Bull will decide the direction of the company, Christian Horner will control hiring and Adrian Newey remains in charge of all engineering decisions.
Porsche: We fear there is a language barrier issue. We are giving you our specific instructions and you are not following them, are our instructions unclear?
Red Bull: No, your requests have been perfectly clear...
Awesome 😂
Phenomenal video right here. Manufacturers need to commit to joining F1 and respect the sport enough to have a long term plan. Kudos to Ford, Cadillac and Audi👏
Redbull should stick with Honda. Going with Ford could lead to disaster.
They can't stick with Honda. Honda are leaving F1 (again) which is why Red Bull have set up Red Bull Powertrains.
This is sad!
Why? This is a good news
We don't need another Car Manufacturers who Loves to be mediocre like Porsche, Ferrari, Alpine..
Great video and great comments. Didn't realize the extent of those pulling for Porsche.
I think people just want more teams. I don’t know of any sport that doesn’t want to expand except F1.
F1 certainly is the definition of exclusivity. A global sport with only 10 teams.
@@Al_Camino77
I used to talk to someone relatively high up in Porche (high enough that they would be in regular contact with head office). They constantly agitated to get into F1, and will be furious they let this slip.
Guess that's what happens when you try to do it on the cheap and with an assumption of the high ground.
Kind of a good thing since if Porsche joins F1 and makes their own engines and power terrains, it's basically over for any F1 team 💀 It's gonna be the least competitive sh ever with them winning for the next 20 years 😭😭
Still find it astonishing that VW were prepared to invest in 2 independent F1 programs
Porsche is owned by VAG but they pretty much do what they want without VAG getting involved.
Thats interesting.
I think Haas could be a great option for Porsche to choose like Audi did with Sauber
Not sure ☠️
The Haas business model is based on buying most of the car from Ferrari. Porsche won't do that, and Ferrari likely wouldn't sell them parts. Haas doesn't have the staff or facilities to build an entire car from scratch including a power unit.
they don't wanna do the hard work.
If Porsche is so desperate to join F1 they should found a new team. Get 11 constructors on the grid
In all fairness to Porsche, they have a reputation they need to uphold. In pretty much every racing series they either are currently or often have been the dominant force. It doesn't make sense for them to start with anyone other than the most dominant team. Building up a team to dominate a sport like this is a decade-long effort (according to Lawrence Stroll), and even Porsche's expertise wouldn't produce a clean-sheet design that's immediately at the top of the grid.
Would have loved them with Williams & have a modern take on the Rothmans livery on the cars,but it is what it is,hopefully Andretti are also out if a big name like Porsche isnt here then i dont see why they would let a low name in.
Andretti has GM behind them. Depending if Cadillac is willing to commit to a full works team, Andretti might still be a viable option.
But Andretti is committed in making an eleventh team, and they have GM backing. Porsche wanted to buy a part in a successful team and to have decision power in said team, which is not enough for anyone in the grid currently
I was really excited at the prospect of a Porsche F1 team. Only seeking a sponsorship deal and not wanting to run an actual race team has negatively skewed who and what I thought Porsche were.
Porsche needs a change in attitude at the top. They'll never be in F1 ever again if they continue to treat the sport with such a lack of care.
They got greedy wanting 50% stake. Their brand is strong, but not that strong.
It makes zero sense that they didn't go after Williams. They are owned by a private equity firm and clearly want to cash out. RB or Mclaren never made any sense.
They dont want backmaker team
@@gadboyz3705 McLaren is not exactly leading the pack...
@@RodrigoMadriz never said they went to McLaren LOL
If they're coming in as a Power Unit supplier or a works team, all they had to do was look at what happened to Honda.
All the success they have right now isn't worth the embarrassment of the McLaren debacle. It's been years, and now they're winning, and in my mind I still see Honda as a shit brand.
Audi is about to find out the true price of F1.
Honda a shit brand ? Honda's issue before joing up with RedBull wasnt of their own doing. It was McLaren's philosophy of size Zero and the fact that Honda joined after the hybrids were already developed anc they werevplaying catch up from the start. Well they caught up and with the WINGS RedBull ga e them they flew by Ferrari and even better the WOKEcedes Benz too !!
This is the second time that Porche/VW has left a partner standing at the altar. It was VW that wanted hybrid engines in F1. They partnered with Williams when the new engine specification was being developed. William's stonewalled on their behalf. Some of the engine suppliers were open to hybrids others like Ferrari were against it. Over nearly two years the discussions went on with everyone eventually agreeing on hybrid power trains. VW walked away without a deal with Williams. William's had no hybrid engine deal. Although Merc were prepared to supply Williams with engines Maclaren would not allow it. Once Dennis left and Merc got their own team, a deal was done. VW's concession to Williams was to take the mechanical kers (flywheel) that Williams developed.
in my opinion Porsche Do Not need F1
6:42 - right front wheel man pushing the tires hoping to move the car faster lol
So Formula 1 changed it's rules to accommodate Porsche, but won't allow Andretti on the grid even though Andretti has jumped through every single hoop placed in it's path. Make it make sense.
What you talking about? F1 already announce 12 teams after 2025, Andretti is allowed already...
@@RoyMatzem Do you have a link to where Andretti has been granted that position on the grid?
I can't find anything that says that it's been approved by the FIA or F1.
@@EchoMirage72 They didnt granted position to anyone... They opened to 2 new teams enters in 2026, the interesed have present they offer until June, so far only 1 team presented; Andretti. So its Andretti vs nobody. How they can lose?
@@RoyMatzem You literally just said that Andretti was going to be on the grid in 2025.
@@EchoMirage72 I litterally said "after 2025" which is 2026...
Did not make sense for VW to have two teams, and Red Bull already had an engine designed, what would Porsche do?
I think 1 member of the VW group on the grid is enough. Let Hyundai(maybe) and Andretti/Cadillac in
I think Porsche doesn't care that much to be honest. In the sense that they are not very desperate to get in, they won't get in if they are not happy with the conditions
This was redbull playing games to get the engine advantage they been fucking around with for the past couple years. Insane how they’ve been allowed to get away with it. Creating “redbull powertrains” while renting all the Honda staff who’ve built F1 engines for years and now getting an engine manufacturing advantage because ford(the essential title sponsor) is a “new engine manufacturer”. Disgraceful from the FIA
Redbull will never be making its own engine. Redbull powertrains was just a nice overhyped cope from redbull. The engine themselves they were developing were already having problems lets not forget delays also you got to test the engine to see if it will work. Redbull gave the finger to Porsche only to realise their powertrains program will cost a lot of money to develop now Ford came and bailed their asses.
Its pretty insulting how redbull got away with it.
The livery in the thumbnail is 🤩
4:35 is telling - teams would rather settle for mediocrity as long as it produces cash flow than cede control in a venture that takes risk to be more successful. That will entrench the top teams.
i've been saying it but porsche only wanted to partner with the top team. Now that only losing teams would be interested in any partnership, they dont want in to F1
I'm glad the RB-Porsche deal fell through
Two engines made by Volkswagen and then rebranded as Audi and Porsche is what I thought would have happened due to reduced start up cost.
They really should have gone the new entry route. Even if they didn't share a power unit, they definitely could have taken components from Audi Sauber to build the chassis and body work. But that's just my take