They will add the $3000 supporter packs and maybe even higher. Why? Because there are idiots who buy the 480$$$ packs already, in great numbers. So why the hell not profit even more lol. It's just common sense. Literal garbage
@@Devon-hw6ih The last time they sold unique designs it was for $2500 and it was a stand-alone purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if they charged 5k now for POE2.
@@alexbarcan4705 i mean $480 for nothing advantage in a free game? that's like something fair if those who have money want to spend to maintain the game no?
@@trignite there will almost assuredly be a stash tab sale right after launch, but yes waiting for the sale will get the most value out of ur points, Currency tab is the main one and possibly map tab assuming the maps work similar to how they did in poe 1
Not to mention you get equivalent to 30 of credit to spend on the store anyway. So you're not really paying for anything extra, and use can use that to buy extra slots which just improves the experience.
It's not nothing, we are literally stealing from the company. There's no other game where you get so much content for free, no game comes remotely close..
IF that. idk $30 gets 300 points, with stash tabs costing 50, or i think 30 on sale, you can get alot. $30 is alot more than you would feel necessary to spend on tabs. All you "need" in reality is a currency tab. Everything else is completely convenience based with no real necessity. If you choose to collect maps, a map tab would help. If you choose to farm a different league mechanic then a tab for that mechanic would help. But on sales a currency tab is what? like $5? and the bundles you can get like 3 extra tabs or a quad tab for cheap.
That 25k was for content and probably made Quin 200 or 300k overall. His point is valid, that the $480 supporter pack is designed to prey on whales and addicts but of course it's designed to do that, those packs are probably a significant portion of the companies profits.
They will pay for the costs after about a month, so after that these holier than thou people will stop accepting money ? Or will they like parasites live of the stupidity of humans with no moral judgement ?
Nah hes is acutally right here. You can spend infinite money on the poe store and no game is worth that. That said, you dont need all that and as long as the stashtabs that make the game better and are needed to trade are not getting too expensive, its fine. I like to think of a generous business model (basically almost entirely f2p) with an awfull mtx shop (lootboxes, fomo, expensive).
@@iEATW0RLDSAs a warframe lover, DE's monetization is way worse, but at the very least you can start earning the currency via trading very quickly, and DE is on the same level of passion for their game as GGG so giving them money actually feels good
@@Zamai2137 Not really, if you think about it you at least can work towards having all the upgrades in Warframe, PoE doesn't let you pay for tabs with ingame currency, not even cosmetics.
Having expensive supporter packs is not predatory... is not needed its also called supporter pack for a reason if you feel the company has gave you value you may feel you want to support the company you "may" pay a supporter pack it wont give you any advantage to someone who paid 20 bucks in tabs. you know whats predatory shit when blizzard sold early access for a weekend... with a battle pass included for 100 bucks while 3 first seasons were horse crap and then if you did not expend the battle pass in 3 seasons to bad you lost it... or when they had no confirmation on the battle pass activation and on top of that they activate button highlighted automatically upon opening the store you could activate it by mistake. the loot boxes may be predatory indeed.
Even that is better when done by GGG, once you get an item from the mystery box, it won't drop again if you open more boxes. The items will start to repeat after you get one copy of everything in there.
I think that’s a really great comparison. When you make a F2P game there’s only so many business models that make sense while at the same time being equitable to the core of the gameplay.
Rich people basically buy the game and every league's development for everyone else. Let them do it, what's the problem? I know it's convenient for me to say this but it's true. I have a family member that has many dozens of millions. Let people like him pay the way, the interest people get in a day can pay for all their needs. An easy solution is a cosmetic store for accredited investors lol.
i recently came back to My childhood Favorite Cabal Online(typical Korea P2W MM0 and endgame exp like Poe mapping and gamble)! Now i feel like to be in Heaven playing Poe
Also keep in mind that regional prices exist. In CIS region it's around 210 usd for the max pack, which is kinda ok compared to average income over here.
Idk without the supporter packs they wouldn’t be able to expand the dev team as much as they did, and allow PoE 2 to get cooking at the same time as 1.
hell, without any way to support them the game would shut down. What are they going to do, make the characters cost to play? I wanna play a witch, oh its a $480 paywall. OR MAYBE, just MAYBE, offer the playerbase you've gifted thousands of hours of entertainment for free the OPTION to support your work going forward. Quin is just braindead.
@@RigRacers I think his point was that a limited time $480 pack with excusive items is predatory. Some people who should not be spending that kind of money will buy it anyway because they don't want to regret not getting it later. GGG need to make money, but they'd still recoup their costs and line their wallets with only the $30 tier. It's the top selling game on steam and it's not even out yet. We can love a game/company and still be critical of them. I think these checks are important. Blizzard was once the most beloved developer on earth; anyone can fall.
@@unrighteous8745 thats the peoples fault. have self control. its not the companies job to intentionally stupid-proof their profits. That 1% of idiots who buy everything just because, are the people who keep these free-to-play games afloat. & if you spend thousands of hours enjoying a game for free, the reason you buy it means nothing, if you have the money you should support the people who gave you that happiness free of charge.
@@RigRacers Hmm... I don't agree with this line of reasoning. "thats the peoples fault. have self control. its not the companies job to intentionally stupid-proof their profits." By this logic, should we legalize hard drugs and gambling? Should we include children in that too? Some people are born with less self control than others, should we deem it their fate to be taken advantage of? I'd much rather put restrictions on how predatory companies can be. And by the way, I know GGG is very tame compared to a lot of other companies out there. However, there are also some free to play games that have less predatory business models ($480 is a lot of money, and it's just a start). --- "That 1% of idiots who buy everything just because, are the people who keep these free-to-play games afloat." They don't keep them afloat, they make them rich. Again, not talking about GGG specifically here, but keeping them in line is in our best interest. --- "if you spend thousands of hours enjoying a game for free, the reason you buy it means nothing, if you have the money you should support the people who gave you that happiness free of charge." These companies make money. That's how they keep putting out content. The reason PoE is free is not because of the benevolence of the developers, it's because it's a business model that makes more money in the long term. You get more people trying the game, and more potential customers for the cash shop. F2P games make the most money for the least amount of effort. Again, not talking about GGG. The game looks amazing, and they've clearly put in a ton of effort, but I'd still rather they hear some criticism when they release these predatory FOMO bundles. I don't want to boycott the game, I want it to be the best game possible, and that means protecting vulnerable people.
@@unrighteous8745 From a marketing perspective, they don't use ANY FOMO tactics. They don't use ANY manipulation or desperation tactics as seen in many other F2P games. They don't constantly shove the stuff down your throat with timers and popups and dark patterns and creating a feeling of being apart of something. They simply create the cosmetic, its on the store. If you don't go and LITERALLY seek out the store yourself with the intent of seeing what they are selling, you would NEVER know its even there. So no, business giving optional, healthy, and very good value support paths of ALL budgets, is NOT predatory. You can support with $5, you can support with $500. Thats up to you, the LITERAL GROWN ASS ADULT, to decide and control. the literal GOAL of a BUSINESS is to make MONEY. OFFERING a product on rotation is NOT predatory just because a very small % of addicted, no self-control, no restraint idiots want to spend all of their money on everything released. It's optional for a reason. If you can't allow yourself the OPTION of spending money on OPTIONAL things, maybe you should get off of the game and touch grass, get your shit together. Blaming the extremely generous and extremely lenient completely optional sales tactic of "SUPPORTER packs" is just ignorant logic. You like game? support dev. If you dont? dont. its THAT simple. They have to make money to keep developing. It's a fcking business, not a charity. Grow up and control yourself or just don't play the game, NOBODY is forcing ANYONE to do or buy or support anything because it is a COMPLETELY free game with very very little FOMO selling on 99% of offers.
Path Of Exile is free to pay But jokes aside, extra stash tabs and specialised tabs (e.g Currency, Maps, Fragments) feels necessary if you are playing seriously
if you are seriously playing the game you should spend money. Where does this mentally that a company spend 6y developing something awesome and it should be 100% free?
@@TimberlyPLSo if you play a mobile game and after playing a while it says you can pay money to speed up your game play isn't that a little pay to win? And then pay a little more for a little more convenience which adds up to game efficiency. It's not up front about you need to purchase this or you are going to be majorly gimped. I could barely get to end game on 4 regular tabs these days. It's not even close to free to play out of the box if you want to be on any sort of level playing field.
@@baytownoutlaw9992Why shouldn't a free mobile game start asking for money to continue? That's the problem. It's how it disguises the fact you have to pay to be on a level playing field.
@@EWGFenjoyer You don't get it. You're paying money for an in game advantage. In an online PVE game that matters a lot. Most of us just spent the money and don't care but if you are a new POE 2 player and someone told you it's F2P but your playing ability is gimped if you don't spend money that feels like a mobile game trying to fleece you instead of telling you up front you need to pay to play.
It's an excellent point that it made perfect sense when they were a small company where they lived off the support of the playerbase. But as soon as they were bought by Tencent, they should have dialed down the costs of MTX massively. Personally I have played since 2014, and I buy a 60 dollar pack every year, and probably not more than that.
That makes no sense The cash injection that Tencent did essentially gave them the rights to have control of the Chinese version of the game it was a one-time thing. So they get all of the funding that comes from the Chinese version while GGG get the funding that comes from the Western version so yeah they still need to make money to keep our version going. And yeah there would be no Path of Exile 2 if Tencent didn't do the deal but to be fair grinding gear games was able to get Tencent to do what they did and back down on any thoughts of controlling both versions something that very few companies would have been able to do. It just shows that they didn't sell out our version is still pure.
Honestly, they could make a $1,000,000 supporter pack and I would support it still, so long as it isn't pay to win. Nobody has any obligation to buy cosmetics in any game, so the pricing isn't really predatory at all. Liquor stores aren't predatory, even though alcoholism is a huge issue. Control yourself. I should also add that "Pay to Win" and "Pay to Play" are very different.
@@EAZUP I definitely don't have that kind of money. :P I will say though, I would rather give $100 to a free game made by a company as good as GGG than spend $70 on a game that is made by a company that only cares about getting my money.
To be fair, it does say "Supporter Packs," so given that the game is free, it is a free game with no other way to really generate money. Especially given that the game is constantly being worked on. It would make sense if they dropped the game and left for there to be a cap. But given that the game is always getting something new, i believe it is a fair trade.
I've spent $850 USD on Path of Exile over the years and played for a whopping 4,000 hours. When you do the math, that's about $0.21 per hour of gameplay. 🕒💰 For less than the cost of a cup of coffee per hour, I've experienced countless epic boss fights, perfected my builds, and immersed myself in an ever-evolving world. 🌟🔥 This game proves that quality entertainment doesn’t have to break the bank. Shoutout to Grinding Gear Games for delivering so much value! 🙌 How much have you spent on your favorite game, and do you think it’s been worth it? Let’s hear your stories! 🚀 #PathOfExile #GamingValue #EpicHours
@@Dharnthread a big excuse for a business to make money? what would you prefer? a $100 dog shit diablo 5? with the same monetization pattern in game after the $100? shit devs, shit management, shit implementation, shit seasons, etc? or the opposite of all of that and you NEVER have to pay a dime?
@@RigRacers "Ah, the irony of someone taking time out of their day to craft a snarky reply about my hashtags-only to accuse me of needing to touch grass. The self-awareness must’ve been on cooldown, huh? 🥱 But hey, since you’re clearly invested in policing comment sections, maybe next time you can drop some constructive criticism instead of this low-effort, grass-deprivation analysis. Or better yet, go work on your own hashtag game, champ. 💅 #TouchGrassChallenge #KeyboardWarriorChronicles #HashtagMaster #LivingRentFree"
@@baytownoutlaw9992 I've got plenty of stash tabs. But do you not see how it would give an advantage in a trade league and ssf at the higher level? It obviously doesn't really matter to newer players
@@baytownoutlaw9992 I think PoE is perfectly fair in how it's monetized for the record, but a player with proper tabs has a significant speed and convenience advantage over somebody without tabs that does indirecty lead to an advantage in drops, because of the sheer amount of time you'll save over time on not having to do nightmare stash and map management and that you can instead spend just playing the game.
@@Ulti ok my argument to that is if you don't have the cash to buy a tab every few weeks until you get what is needed for comfortable gameplay, you probably need to be doing something else besides games come on $15 to $30 is all thats needed if that can't be accomplished in a few weeks you shouldn't be on a game.
I actually really respect Quin's take here. I think it shows he has good morals. A lot of people saying they don't care about people being taken advantage of or exploited because they're "stupid" or whatever, those people are either young, uneducated, or just plain selfish. People out there aren't their own authors, you have to be heartless to not care about a fellow human being that has a weakness that is being exploited. It's up to the people with the power to exploit to abstain from doing so. It's sad that modern culture is built around glorification of predation on others. It used to be people would look up to those with power that protect the weak, not exploit them.
Not that he is wrong, but why the fuck do I watch 30 minutes of takes that are so obvious that its even cringe to speak them out loud. And there are only like 3 of them across these 30 minutes, just every single one overexplained.
I don't actually mind the big supporter packs. The money goes into improving the game and making poe2. I never spend more than like 60 bucks on the packs, but anything to make the game better. I just hate they locked the artbook behind the 480 dollar pack, that's my only concern.
In any game that has a trade economy, 'pay for convenience' is a nice way to obscure pay to win such that the player base feels that its necessary to have but somehow different to buying a win. PoE1 premium vs not for trading is great example of pay to win that is obscured by pay for convenience. Many PoE streamers and even the comments of this video describe the currency tab and at least 1 premium as a minimum if you plan to participate in the economy. The game is designed around the economy. In my mind this very clear relationship means that for the game to truly be pay for convenience, every player would need to have a free currency tab and at least 1 premium trade tab. If people ask if they should play it I will always say, "Sure but you'll probably have to spend around £30-50 for the loot to be manageable because of the stash tabs." I think I only have around 3000hrs on record for PoE1 though so I'm probably just way to casual to be the target audience though, which is fair.
Imagine thinking completely optional purchases in a fully free game is "predatory" when there are games like iRacing that cost $3000+ for every car/track and have a $110+/year subscription just to used the service. With just 300,000 players, if everyone bought everything, they would make almost 1 billion dollars, where minecraft needed to sale 300,000,000 copies to get $2.5 billion. 1000x sales for almost = profit. THAT is greed, THAT is predatory. Simply offering your loyal fanbase, who you give decades of playtime to for free, optional convenience sales and MTX to support you, is if anything, extremely consumer friendly. Quin is just ignorant to reality sometimes.
ya I dont care for the fomo part of it imo, Like I would definitely love to get the delve supporter pack when I started playing cause I didnt see the need or felt it was worth it till I went "damn I wanted that"
A friend of mine once asked me why I spend a lot of money on cosmetics that I will eventually would not use in a free-to-play game. I then asked her why she spent a lot of money taking chances on a character in a free-to-play gatcha game. She smile and said “Yeah, true.”
Most People forget that the Supporter Packs are priced with the equivalent of the Premium Currency they contain, everything Cosmetic is an Extra on Top. Other Games just slap you with 40$ Cosmetics and thats it. Here you can at least get some StashTabs or other Stuff on Top of it. But i agree with the FOMO Factor of them
They are not a starter company, they don't need you to do that. they are calling their MTX packs - supporter packs, because dumb assess like you need to pay up so they can build their houses, buy cards and so on. Remember they are owned by their chinese overlords called Tencent which is one of the biggest companies in the world, so they literally dont need any type of support. The world is full of idiots, thank God for you that exists, so others can profit of your asses
I think GGG are really wise. Having a 'pay what you value' model means they never have to have internal discussions through the lens of profit. They will either do high quality, good work and get rewarded, or not.
I would much prefer every game company did F2P with optional donations than say £60 for a game that caused loads of stress and redundancies etc because the company is run like a factory
if you play something for 100 hours+ you should feel a little bit obligated to pay for something, the whole concept of this game is free needs to have a limit also, im kind of in a shock that the developers didn't raise the bar of this, again if you play something for 100+ hours and using their servers in what world people even discuss not paying for anything? I mean it can be as little as 20$ and if you don't have that and yet you have that many hours in gaming then you have yourself a problem if you are in mature age, you are literally wasting your life, at least this streamers make money and get sponsors and im sure they pay the biggest support packs because they can afford.
It would be fun if they had merch store. Though I would assume that maintaining it would be another issue on their plate. Using more of a "dropship" model of merch selling (via supporter packs) is probably more efficient.
The thing that feels more predatory is Tencent owning all of their shares. Poe China is already significantly more P2W than global. The moment the money slows down, Tencent is gonna step in with the P2W.
See i never understand why people say PoE is P2W even without paying anything u get more stash tabs then D4 🤣and then u can pay extra to make it more convenient but u rly dont actually need it and the funny part is anyone who pays 30€ for the early access gets enough MTX currency to buy all the stash tabs they need on top of the access key. Like i and many people i know played the game for a long time without any extra stash tabs u rly should never feel the need for it during the entire campaign anyway and even early endgame u wont rly need a premium stash tab they mainly become interesting when u rly start to grind maps to just ease ur life with auto sorting and pricing for trade.
You say $480 is too much for a supporter pack, but it just makes me think about how much money I've spent on games and companies that were a lot worse, and didn't care nearly as much for the consumer. Blizzard for instance, I don't even want to think about how much money I've invested into WoW since 2008. Poe is free, the content releases are free, the updates and added systems are free.
Let's trade: Add $3000 supporter pack and remove Kirac's Vault Pass. I don't think it's games issue that it lets a player spend tons of money for cosmetic stuff. The comparison to Terraria isn't realy accurate since PoE is actual live service and paying $5 and then playing for thousands of hours would just not be sustainable. But then if you buy gametime for some time period some ppl will get the opposite FOMO - i gotta play the game as much as possible and finish it ASAP so i don't have to buy next time period and i can save some money. Plus i wonder how much would like yearly subscription be to cover for everything just by itself, without any MTX. I havn't heard of or figured out a payment method for PoE i would see rather than the existing one. If rich ppl buy cosmetic $3k supporter pack: Good for you and ty for paying for me. If poor ppl buy cosmetic $3k supporter pack: Too bad and ty for paying for me.
It also is a very complex game for new players and people in general i think to really start and get into properly without some sort of true commitment and dedication. Meaning that if the game has a sub or pay to enter style of barrier to entry it would make it that much harder for the average person to get in and try the game to see its for them. In this way its less predatory to them and offers more risk to the developers possibly getting nothing out of that customer for the purpose of making a business game product. If the game were a more simple generic MMORPG and launched with a sub price it would have likely died years ago. Given its scale and strong by its nature barrier to entry given its complexity. I personally think that If the whales are going to "buy them anyway", I see it as a small price to pay for the larger player base to be granted the luxury of getting to play the game. Saying that it is predatory to market toward whales while still offering the larger crowd the similar if not same experience I think is a testament to the games quality that those people are "STILL" willing to pay out money, even if they feel they really do NOT need to. Like if you are wealthy and are capable of purchasing such large packs in the first place, I would consider it the lesser of two evils to raise the price of them for those players than offer any other sort of "predatory" method for the everyday player. This is probably the only true way to monetize a game, keep it free to play, and still come out on top without any major worries for financial stability for your company and product.
The only thing about the stash tab stuff. They really really need to make currency tabs baseline with PoE2. Most people can without all the specialities tabs. The game is just objectively worse without a currency tab
I agree with the whale hunting take. Its bullshit we justify 480$ packs. Any cosmetic in a videogame shouldn't be behind a 100+ paywall. When league released its 500$ skin Riot rightfully took an L by the the larger gaming community when PoE had been doing it for 10 years. Now with regional pricing gone it's impossible for some countries to even afford the cheaper packages.
3:25 he literally says 'big dick packs' like you know his brain is all about flexing wealth and status and thats somehow the devs fault for exploiting that? Its exploitative in the same way black friday is exploitative people who dont know what they are getting/doing are going to fall 'victim' to their own hubris.
I bought the $100 supporter pack for $45 because of the regional pricing and still got 1000 points to spend on the shop. I have well over 8k hours on the game and spent like $250 before. If i wasnt living in a third world country i would have spent a lot more.
Bad take from Quin. When a developer time and time again put a lot of effort in development and try to listen to their playerbase then they deserve the money. Its not predatory. I think I have spent 400-500 us dollars on this game and played it for 4000 hours. Thats 0.125 dollars per hour. If that is not well spent money I do not know what is.
Pay to WIN, not pay to play. It exclusively refers to purchasing advantages over other players. It has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of the game. Bank tabs are the only thing you can purchase in PoE that give you any sort of advantage. When you consider the game is free, and the total cost of that advantage equals the cost of your average game, I would argue there is NO pay to win in PoE at all because it is reasonable to consider the cost of those tabs just a price tag for the game once you have decided you like it. And even then, you can avoid purchasing them and not be excluded from anything in the game. PoE does not have pay to win mechanics, period.
I could spend 480 on a single suit and wear it to places I like to regular and you like the way you look. and doing that can be addicting. Designers created stuff for these packs, and you wear them in a place you like to regular and you like the way you look. It’s not predatory, it’s just supply and demand
I don't like the "I was just lazy so i bough it" argument. You can say it about p2w too, for example: I was too lazy to grind, so I bought materials for rl money (p2w). Stash tabs might be qol, veeery low on p2w scale and non predatory in comparison to what we currently have in games, but imo they should still get rid of it.
I'm one of those that almost always buys the $480 pack, eventually. I am OK with their pack pricing, but the pricing on the visual mtx in the store are hands down predatory. Prices should be about 1/2 of what they are. I have even bought the same packs more than once because I wanted more points to spend on those seasonal loot boxes, chasing an armor set. I have 15-20 PoE t-shirts and ... 5 hoodies? Matter of fact, I'm wearing the Searing Exarch t-shirt right now.
POE is not pay to win, but maps, currency and 4 more stash tabs are the entry fee to run the game smoothly. The same idiots that buy the $480 pack without having the means, if there was no $480 pack would buy something else stupid, like a car they can't afford, or a house, or something else. GGG is not responsible for ppl with bad spending habits, they are responsible for making a good game without exponential p2w mechanics, only an entry fee.
I think about it this way: whatever a solid stack of stash tabs costs, that's what the game costs. There's also the option to play for free. I will say i don't actually like F2P games with cosmetics purely because they're obviously making design decisions based on the fact they want to sell cool cosmetics seperately, but that's a trade off for the free option i guess. I'd rather pay $10-15 per month and have cooler designs in the base game, but I'm probably the minority.
It's absolutely worth getting the stash tabs after when you get into it. Just so QoL. And all your mtx will transfer between poe and poe2 when possible
They should honestly just charge like $70 for the entire game and thats it. No stash tabs, cosmetics or whatever else. Cosmetics are always so cheesy in games like this... It defeats the whole purpose of looting cool items... D4 does it and is the main reason I quit playing. I dont want to have to pay 25 dollars or whatever for a skin that looks cooler than everything that drops in game... Plus paid DLC expansions are fine. Thats another way to make a lot of money...
I can't believe the amount of outrageous losers i see in the comments crying about adults doing as they wish with their money. I can't imagine spending $500 on a 'supporter pack' for a F2P game ... but if there is a market for it, it will exist.
Mobile games aren't mostly paid by whales . Using the one guy on Diablo Immortal who spent 100k , people on his individual server paid more for battlepasses then all the whales combined . Whales are a big influx but aren't the people buying battle passes every month like clockwork. Huge number of battle pass Andys make up majority of income, Tencent makes 80% off bpass and cosmetics in their games including Glory of Kings which is among most played in history of games.
I spent like 50$ in total and I got all the stash tabs that I might want. I dont have all of them but I think I have enough where its not too troublesome aside the divination card one. Im kinda sad losing my job just as poe2 release andI cant join many people as I need to tighten the belt specially I am not in the US and the conversion of it is really high in my country. Still, I am no veteran of this game. I started on last necro league on its last week and everything was handed over to me. I didnt know crafting, or majority of things. The last league was my official entry to the game and it was a blast. Its it free to play. The game is free to pay. Get 2 quad tab I think that will help a lot already. The game is amazing. If I have the funds, I would buy that 480$ too just to pay for the amount of fun I had in poe1.
It’s funny when people complain about a game that cost 100 bucks. Defend a game like Poe that it’s free but spend 2-3k on it. lol. Love the game I just find this mentality hilarious.
free game, 0 barrier to entry, optional spending to support the devs after thousands of hours of free gameplay vs non-optional spending AND the same monetization tactics in the game after the $100 price tag AND the game is SHIT. Sure, theres a comparison. It's just not the one you think.
Are the prices high? Yes, very* - GGG could make certain things more affordable, but the business model is working for them, people are buying stuff. There is no reason for them to reduce prices, and the fact they have the best ARPG now and will up themselves with POE 2 tells us something.
I just dont understand some people. Its like talking to a brick wall that makes problems in it's own head. PoE is NOT a p2w game although you do have QoL stuff for money. Now, you get a FULL game with a LOT of content for FREE(not a trial like wow or other games). You CAN spend money on it but dont need to(i got addicted in harvest and havent bought anything until ritual/ultimatum). Ill repeat. Its NOT a trial for a game. You get the same exact content for free of charge. Dropping couple of dollars down the line to make your experience better + supporting guys that make a damn good game and give free updates (instead of paid dlc bullshit) is not that big of a deal
Quin I love ya work man but you gotta understand that yeah they could get by with a lower cap on the supporter packs but all this excess profit allows for 1) simultaneous upkeep of both poe1/2. 2) very likely a MUCH faster headstart in the development of poe 2. 3) the likelihood that they can pour money into FUTURE projects and on that note why wouldnt we want a company that has proven time and time again that they can make an AMAZING product in an industry of wolves that we know at this point in time we can trust.
I don't think they are doing anything bad, whoever has money and wants to buy something, will buy it, I bought myself something that was interesting, in 10 years I spent $45 and that's not much at all, but how much money did I spend in 12 years of playing WoW????..... I don't think anyone will sell their last pair of underwear to buy a pack for $480 I don't know what the problem is, do you think the game should be exclusively free? They're just trying to make money too, they need to pay the developers for 10 years, Karl, they've been releasing a free game for 10 years, here they're releasing some mind-blowing content, and if I were rich, I'd buy it once for $10,000 to support the developer who's been giving joy in a free game for over 10 years
I did the 219 version. I don’t care if GGG already made it. Have you seen POE2? They put in ridiculous hard work and it shows. What’s 219 to me if I get 500 hours out of poe2? That is Pennies for that much entertainment… and it guarantees that game stays around. No brainer in this case for me.
crazy how people will twist their opinions depending if it's about something they like vs hate. yes PoE is P2W by definition. no it doesn't really matter because the "free" game is basically freeware, you're supposed to "buy" the game by getting stash tabs. i'd much rather spend $100 on PoE "box price" than $70 on d4.
About $2k a year for literally every big dick supporter pack whale hunting collection = predatory $25k in a couple of weeks for a mobile game you play for less than a month before uninstalling forever = fine Classic takes Quin, keep it up!
Is not pay to win, but the experience without stash tabs being new is horrible while u are progressing, u at least need the currency and maps stash tabs for enjoy the game, anyway that's just like 20-30 dollars, and with the coins that u received+ the key for 30 dollars, and u can buy that and a bit more...
The $3000 supporter pack better come with a Chris Wilson lapdance at Exilecon.
They will add the $3000 supporter packs and maybe even higher. Why? Because there are idiots who buy the 480$$$ packs already, in great numbers. So why the hell not profit even more lol. It's just common sense. Literal garbage
I heard maybe unique item slated for an increase
@@alexbarcan47051000s of hours they get out of it. How dumb is that.
@@Devon-hw6ih The last time they sold unique designs it was for $2500 and it was a stand-alone purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if they charged 5k now for POE2.
@@alexbarcan4705 i mean $480 for nothing advantage in a free game? that's like something fair if those who have money want to spend to maintain the game no?
$20 to get stash tabs in poe or $100 in d4 to only get 5 hmmmm
You mean Alt+D4?
You get the stash tabs of everyone else playing D4 though.
D4? Isn't that just a trash POE like?
@@eterra9585 what a monkey ass comment. You're probably a hater IRL too.
@@clyp0001 This is such an underrated statement, bravo! 👍
If you are new, just buy the currency tab on launch with the points you got with the key and hold the rest of the points until you need it
People keep saying the tabs go on sale so wouldnt it be best to wait for those
@@trignite there will almost assuredly be a stash tab sale right after launch, but yes waiting for the sale will get the most value out of ur points, Currency tab is the main one and possibly map tab assuming the maps work similar to how they did in poe 1
@@trigniteThey regularly do weekend stash tab sales, generally the weekend following or the weekend after league launches.
@@trigniteyeah, sales are like every two weeks, so it's the best option to get all the necessary tabs, and some extra ones too with those last $10
Buy a premium tab too if you want to list items for trade.
Paying 30 for a game that gives you so many hours of entertainment is nothing
True. I've only played POE for about 70h and payed nothing. Now i will pay for early access. They deserve it.
Not to mention you get equivalent to 30 of credit to spend on the store anyway. So you're not really paying for anything extra, and use can use that to buy extra slots which just improves the experience.
It's not nothing, we are literally stealing from the company.
There's no other game where you get so much content for free, no game comes remotely close..
IF that. idk $30 gets 300 points, with stash tabs costing 50, or i think 30 on sale, you can get alot. $30 is alot more than you would feel necessary to spend on tabs. All you "need" in reality is a currency tab. Everything else is completely convenience based with no real necessity. If you choose to collect maps, a map tab would help. If you choose to farm a different league mechanic then a tab for that mechanic would help. But on sales a currency tab is what? like $5? and the bundles you can get like 3 extra tabs or a quad tab for cheap.
Or u wait till comes out and u pay 0
Ive got 1000 hours in the game and I've spent around 500 bucks. 50 cents an hour for a hobby is cheap.
thats dumb
@@Turican76 I've got 3k hours on $30. 1 cent an hour still not good enough for you?
@@Turican76 Without people spending any money there would be no game. It is only _free to play_ *_if_* some people pay.
@@Turican76 Nah, youre dumb and a leech.
@@Turican76isn't it dumber to pay $100 for an incomplete game? Which also has mtx in game.
lol complains about a cosmetic only optional pack, meanwhile spent 25k on diablo immortal 🤣🤣
You know what you sign up for installing a mobile game. This market gets unsuspected people. Not to hard bud
Sperg he is
'We should improve society somewhat'. 'Yet you participate in society. Curious!'.
His probably spent more on POE
That 25k was for content and probably made Quin 200 or 300k overall. His point is valid, that the $480 supporter pack is designed to prey on whales and addicts but of course it's designed to do that, those packs are probably a significant portion of the companies profits.
Quin doesn’t seem to realize that they need to recoup the development costs of this massive game they’re about to release.
ok
They will pay for the costs after about a month, so after that these holier than thou people will stop accepting money ?
Or will they like parasites live of the stupidity of humans with no moral judgement ?
Massive FREE game, lol.
@@barsnack7999 ok? Wtf is the point of this comment
Nah hes is acutally right here. You can spend infinite money on the poe store and no game is worth that.
That said, you dont need all that and as long as the stashtabs that make the game better and are needed to trade are not getting too expensive, its fine.
I like to think of a generous business model (basically almost entirely f2p) with an awfull mtx shop (lootboxes, fomo, expensive).
Josh spitting truth.
Blizzard made me angry, I stepped away from their games and suddenly gaming is fun again.
welcome to 2012 lol
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Quin wants the price to be static.
Think he just wants to argue with chat
not pay 2 win its pretty 2 wear :D
i dont think there is another game that monetizes as well as PoE does
Warframe is the only other game that comes to mind.
I mean, both of your comments make sense@@iEATW0RLDS
@@iEATW0RLDSAs a warframe lover, DE's monetization is way worse, but at the very least you can start earning the currency via trading very quickly, and DE is on the same level of passion for their game as GGG so giving them money actually feels good
@@Zamai2137 Not really, if you think about it you at least can work towards having all the upgrades in Warframe, PoE doesn't let you pay for tabs with ingame currency, not even cosmetics.
If you mean with regards to the player then yes.
Having expensive supporter packs is not predatory... is not needed its also called supporter pack for a reason if you feel the company has gave you value you may feel you want to support the company you "may" pay a supporter pack it wont give you any advantage to someone who paid 20 bucks in tabs.
you know whats predatory shit when blizzard sold early access for a weekend... with a battle pass included for 100 bucks while 3 first seasons were horse crap and then if you did not expend the battle pass in 3 seasons to bad you lost it...
or when they had no confirmation on the battle pass activation and on top of that they activate button highlighted automatically upon opening the store you could activate it by mistake.
the loot boxes may be predatory indeed.
Even that is better when done by GGG, once you get an item from the mystery box, it won't drop again if you open more boxes. The items will start to repeat after you get one copy of everything in there.
Star Citizen raises the whale bar, quite the grift.
I thought that game was just a tech demo like 10 years ago that never came out
bro just described any luxury brand anything that's limited
Forcing the IRL whales to buy luxury brands, so predatory!
I think that’s a really great comparison. When you make a F2P game there’s only so many business models that make sense while at the same time being equitable to the core of the gameplay.
Rich people basically buy the game and every league's development for everyone else. Let them do it, what's the problem? I know it's convenient for me to say this but it's true. I have a family member that has many dozens of millions. Let people like him pay the way, the interest people get in a day can pay for all their needs.
An easy solution is a cosmetic store for accredited investors lol.
i recently came back to My childhood Favorite Cabal Online(typical Korea P2W MM0 and endgame exp like Poe mapping and gamble)! Now i feel like to be in Heaven playing Poe
Also keep in mind that regional prices exist. In CIS region it's around 210 usd for the max pack, which is kinda ok compared to average income over here.
Idk without the supporter packs they wouldn’t be able to expand the dev team as much as they did, and allow PoE 2 to get cooking at the same time as 1.
hell, without any way to support them the game would shut down. What are they going to do, make the characters cost to play? I wanna play a witch, oh its a $480 paywall.
OR MAYBE, just MAYBE, offer the playerbase you've gifted thousands of hours of entertainment for free the OPTION to support your work going forward. Quin is just braindead.
@@RigRacers I think his point was that a limited time $480 pack with excusive items is predatory. Some people who should not be spending that kind of money will buy it anyway because they don't want to regret not getting it later.
GGG need to make money, but they'd still recoup their costs and line their wallets with only the $30 tier. It's the top selling game on steam and it's not even out yet.
We can love a game/company and still be critical of them. I think these checks are important. Blizzard was once the most beloved developer on earth; anyone can fall.
@@unrighteous8745 thats the peoples fault. have self control. its not the companies job to intentionally stupid-proof their profits. That 1% of idiots who buy everything just because, are the people who keep these free-to-play games afloat. & if you spend thousands of hours enjoying a game for free, the reason you buy it means nothing, if you have the money you should support the people who gave you that happiness free of charge.
@@RigRacers Hmm... I don't agree with this line of reasoning.
"thats the peoples fault. have self control. its not the companies job to intentionally stupid-proof their profits."
By this logic, should we legalize hard drugs and gambling? Should we include children in that too? Some people are born with less self control than others, should we deem it their fate to be taken advantage of? I'd much rather put restrictions on how predatory companies can be. And by the way, I know GGG is very tame compared to a lot of other companies out there. However, there are also some free to play games that have less predatory business models ($480 is a lot of money, and it's just a start).
---
"That 1% of idiots who buy everything just because, are the people who keep these free-to-play games afloat."
They don't keep them afloat, they make them rich. Again, not talking about GGG specifically here, but keeping them in line is in our best interest.
---
"if you spend thousands of hours enjoying a game for free, the reason you buy it means nothing, if you have the money you should support the people who gave you that happiness free of charge."
These companies make money. That's how they keep putting out content. The reason PoE is free is not because of the benevolence of the developers, it's because it's a business model that makes more money in the long term. You get more people trying the game, and more potential customers for the cash shop.
F2P games make the most money for the least amount of effort. Again, not talking about GGG. The game looks amazing, and they've clearly put in a ton of effort, but I'd still rather they hear some criticism when they release these predatory FOMO bundles. I don't want to boycott the game, I want it to be the best game possible, and that means protecting vulnerable people.
@@unrighteous8745 From a marketing perspective, they don't use ANY FOMO tactics. They don't use ANY manipulation or desperation tactics as seen in many other F2P games. They don't constantly shove the stuff down your throat with timers and popups and dark patterns and creating a feeling of being apart of something. They simply create the cosmetic, its on the store. If you don't go and LITERALLY seek out the store yourself with the intent of seeing what they are selling, you would NEVER know its even there. So no, business giving optional, healthy, and very good value support paths of ALL budgets, is NOT predatory. You can support with $5, you can support with $500. Thats up to you, the LITERAL GROWN ASS ADULT, to decide and control. the literal GOAL of a BUSINESS is to make MONEY. OFFERING a product on rotation is NOT predatory just because a very small % of addicted, no self-control, no restraint idiots want to spend all of their money on everything released. It's optional for a reason. If you can't allow yourself the OPTION of spending money on OPTIONAL things, maybe you should get off of the game and touch grass, get your shit together.
Blaming the extremely generous and extremely lenient completely optional sales tactic of "SUPPORTER packs" is just ignorant logic.
You like game? support dev. If you dont? dont. its THAT simple. They have to make money to keep developing. It's a fcking business, not a charity. Grow up and control yourself or just don't play the game, NOBODY is forcing ANYONE to do or buy or support anything because it is a COMPLETELY free game with very very little FOMO selling on 99% of offers.
Path Of Exile is free to pay
But jokes aside, extra stash tabs and specialised tabs (e.g Currency, Maps, Fragments) feels necessary if you are playing seriously
Just legit treat it as: you have a free demo that has all the content and then you can decide to buy the game (currency and fragment tabs)
if you are seriously playing the game you should spend money. Where does this mentally that a company spend 6y developing something awesome and it should be 100% free?
@@TimberlyPLSo if you play a mobile game and after playing a while it says you can pay money to speed up your game play isn't that a little pay to win? And then pay a little more for a little more convenience which adds up to game efficiency. It's not up front about you need to purchase this or you are going to be majorly gimped.
I could barely get to end game on 4 regular tabs these days. It's not even close to free to play out of the box if you want to be on any sort of level playing field.
@@baytownoutlaw9992Why shouldn't a free mobile game start asking for money to continue? That's the problem. It's how it disguises the fact you have to pay to be on a level playing field.
@@EWGFenjoyer You don't get it. You're paying money for an in game advantage. In an online PVE game that matters a lot. Most of us just spent the money and don't care but if you are a new POE 2 player and someone told you it's F2P but your playing ability is gimped if you don't spend money that feels like a mobile game trying to fleece you instead of telling you up front you need to pay to play.
It's an excellent point that it made perfect sense when they were a small company where they lived off the support of the playerbase. But as soon as they were bought by Tencent, they should have dialed down the costs of MTX massively. Personally I have played since 2014, and I buy a 60 dollar pack every year, and probably not more than that.
That makes no sense The cash injection that Tencent did essentially gave them the rights to have control of the Chinese version of the game it was a one-time thing. So they get all of the funding that comes from the Chinese version while GGG get the funding that comes from the Western version so yeah they still need to make money to keep our version going. And yeah there would be no Path of Exile 2 if Tencent didn't do the deal but to be fair grinding gear games was able to get Tencent to do what they did and back down on any thoughts of controlling both versions something that very few companies would have been able to do. It just shows that they didn't sell out our version is still pure.
You can map without tabs i did it for years. You dont need to pick up every card youll never complete the set of to enjoy the game
Why man ? If you like something , spend money on it. Make it even better.
Honestly, they could make a $1,000,000 supporter pack and I would support it still, so long as it isn't pay to win. Nobody has any obligation to buy cosmetics in any game, so the pricing isn't really predatory at all. Liquor stores aren't predatory, even though alcoholism is a huge issue. Control yourself. I should also add that "Pay to Win" and "Pay to Play" are very different.
If you got that much money.. buy stock in the company
@@EAZUP I definitely don't have that kind of money. :P I will say though, I would rather give $100 to a free game made by a company as good as GGG than spend $70 on a game that is made by a company that only cares about getting my money.
@Fwonkerz I'm with you on that.
To be fair, it does say "Supporter Packs," so given that the game is free, it is a free game with no other way to really generate money.
Especially given that the game is constantly being worked on.
It would make sense if they dropped the game and left for there to be a cap.
But given that the game is always getting something new, i believe it is a fair trade.
Superpacks are great. don't buy it if you don't want to. i am not a whale, i still bought a 480 pack for the hoodie and the signed concept art.
I've spent $850 USD on Path of Exile over the years and played for a whopping 4,000 hours. When you do the math, that's about $0.21 per hour of gameplay. 🕒💰
For less than the cost of a cup of coffee per hour, I've experienced countless epic boss fights, perfected my builds, and immersed myself in an ever-evolving world. 🌟🔥
This game proves that quality entertainment doesn’t have to break the bank. Shoutout to Grinding Gear Games for delivering so much value! 🙌
How much have you spent on your favorite game, and do you think it’s been worth it? Let’s hear your stories! 🚀
#PathOfExile #GamingValue #EpicHours
I've got 1200 hours and haven't spent a dime. I'm happy about that too
They're owned by Tencent these packs are just a big excuse at this point.
why tf did you drop hashtags like you're trying to get on the for-you page of tiktok? that does nothing in the comments brother, touch grass.
@@Dharnthread a big excuse for a business to make money? what would you prefer? a $100 dog shit diablo 5? with the same monetization pattern in game after the $100? shit devs, shit management, shit implementation, shit seasons, etc? or the opposite of all of that and you NEVER have to pay a dime?
@@RigRacers "Ah, the irony of someone taking time out of their day to craft a snarky reply about my hashtags-only to accuse me of needing to touch grass. The self-awareness must’ve been on cooldown, huh? 🥱
But hey, since you’re clearly invested in policing comment sections, maybe next time you can drop some constructive criticism instead of this low-effort, grass-deprivation analysis. Or better yet, go work on your own hashtag game, champ. 💅
#TouchGrassChallenge #KeyboardWarriorChronicles #HashtagMaster #LivingRentFree"
Extra stash tabs do not give you any kind of advantage in drops. You don't magically get some magic find increase because you have another bank tab.
Who said anything about drops? It gives you a competetive advantage
@@elantonelle How? Seriously if a stash tab is to much to ask you to buy for a game like this go sort your life out.
@@baytownoutlaw9992 I've got plenty of stash tabs. But do you not see how it would give an advantage in a trade league and ssf at the higher level? It obviously doesn't really matter to newer players
@@baytownoutlaw9992 I think PoE is perfectly fair in how it's monetized for the record, but a player with proper tabs has a significant speed and convenience advantage over somebody without tabs that does indirecty lead to an advantage in drops, because of the sheer amount of time you'll save over time on not having to do nightmare stash and map management and that you can instead spend just playing the game.
@@Ulti ok my argument to that is if you don't have the cash to buy a tab every few weeks until you get what is needed for comfortable gameplay, you probably need to be doing something else besides games come on $15 to $30 is all thats needed if that can't be accomplished in a few weeks you shouldn't be on a game.
I actually really respect Quin's take here. I think it shows he has good morals. A lot of people saying they don't care about people being taken advantage of or exploited because they're "stupid" or whatever, those people are either young, uneducated, or just plain selfish. People out there aren't their own authors, you have to be heartless to not care about a fellow human being that has a weakness that is being exploited. It's up to the people with the power to exploit to abstain from doing so. It's sad that modern culture is built around glorification of predation on others. It used to be people would look up to those with power that protect the weak, not exploit them.
this is why we are devolving as a species
if you spend thousands of hours playing PoE and you buy 1-2 $480 packs thats still cheaper than $70 games that you might get at most 20 hours.
shut up and take my money
Ok than pay some d4 dlc than if you are not so poor poe 2 bad lol
@@thunderdoom12why should he spend money on a objectively worse game? d4bad
@@thunderdoom12 D4 is garbage.
This game cost being p2w is the dumbest argument I have ever heard in my life from someone so confident about it.
Not that he is wrong, but why the fuck do I watch 30 minutes of takes that are so obvious that its even cringe to speak them out loud. And there are only like 3 of them across these 30 minutes, just every single one overexplained.
Us buying stash tabs for 20$ produced poe2 which already is the best ARPG even before release, which is a free game.
the kiwi pets are ABSOLUTELY an advantage tho, just look at them...
I don't actually mind the big supporter packs. The money goes into improving the game and making poe2. I never spend more than like 60 bucks on the packs, but anything to make the game better. I just hate they locked the artbook behind the 480 dollar pack, that's my only concern.
The money goes straight into Tencent's pockets.
7:20 its pay for convenience, like BDO. all they sell are menu/stash tabs and costumes. that's it.
In any game that has a trade economy, 'pay for convenience' is a nice way to obscure pay to win such that the player base feels that its necessary to have but somehow different to buying a win. PoE1 premium vs not for trading is great example of pay to win that is obscured by pay for convenience.
Many PoE streamers and even the comments of this video describe the currency tab and at least 1 premium as a minimum if you plan to participate in the economy. The game is designed around the economy. In my mind this very clear relationship means that for the game to truly be pay for convenience, every player would need to have a free currency tab and at least 1 premium trade tab.
If people ask if they should play it I will always say, "Sure but you'll probably have to spend around £30-50 for the loot to be manageable because of the stash tabs."
I think I only have around 3000hrs on record for PoE1 though so I'm probably just way to casual to be the target audience though, which is fair.
LET THE WHALES SWIM BRO, FREE THE WHALES
Imagine thinking completely optional purchases in a fully free game is "predatory" when there are games like iRacing that cost $3000+ for every car/track and have a $110+/year subscription just to used the service.
With just 300,000 players, if everyone bought everything, they would make almost 1 billion dollars, where minecraft needed to sale 300,000,000 copies to get $2.5 billion. 1000x sales for almost = profit.
THAT is greed, THAT is predatory. Simply offering your loyal fanbase, who you give decades of playtime to for free, optional convenience sales and MTX to support you, is if anything, extremely consumer friendly. Quin is just ignorant to reality sometimes.
ya I dont care for the fomo part of it imo, Like I would definitely love to get the delve supporter pack when I started playing cause I didnt see the need or felt it was worth it till I went "damn I wanted that"
You can buy 1 million copies of Terraria and it will cost you 5 millions, you can create 1 million PoE accounts and will cost you zero.
whales would be angry if there wasnt a 3k pack.
I want a path of exile themed gaming PC with a $3000 supporter pack.
A friend of mine once asked me why I spend a lot of money on cosmetics that I will eventually would not use in a free-to-play game. I then asked her why she spent a lot of money taking chances on a character in a free-to-play gatcha game. She smile and said “Yeah, true.”
This will be My first time playing POE, what stashes should I buy with the points I get with the key knowers?
All you really want are the stash tabs, and you really don't "need" them
Most People forget that the Supporter Packs are priced with the equivalent of the Premium Currency they contain, everything Cosmetic is an Extra on Top. Other Games just slap you with 40$ Cosmetics and thats it. Here you can at least get some StashTabs or other Stuff on Top of it.
But i agree with the FOMO Factor of them
Pays $400 after 400 hours of game time - $1 per hour back to the devs
They are not a starter company, they don't need you to do that. they are calling their MTX packs - supporter packs, because dumb assess like you need to pay up so they can build their houses, buy cards and so on.
Remember they are owned by their chinese overlords called Tencent which is one of the biggest companies in the world, so they literally dont need any type of support. The world is full of idiots, thank God for you that exists, so others can profit of your asses
still dumb
For someone dont have money, yes@@Turican76
The product is literally that good. Not predatory at all, you don't have to buy it.
@@hulkhogansgianttaint9451 you don't have to buy it, but then you will play at the end of 2025, while everyone else will play on 6th dec. Makes sense?
I think GGG are really wise. Having a 'pay what you value' model means they never have to have internal discussions through the lens of profit. They will either do high quality, good work and get rewarded, or not.
I would much prefer every game company did F2P with optional donations than say £60 for a game that caused loads of stress and redundancies etc because the company is run like a factory
The economy runs off foolish spending. Let 'em do it.
30 bucks EA is pay to lose, we'll be wiping for days and weeks straight and that's beautiful.
if you play something for 100 hours+ you should feel a little bit obligated to pay for something, the whole concept of this game is free needs to have a limit also, im kind of in a shock that the developers didn't raise the bar of this, again if you play something for 100+ hours and using their servers in what world people even discuss not paying for anything? I mean it can be as little as 20$ and if you don't have that and yet you have that many hours in gaming then you have yourself a problem if you are in mature age, you are literally wasting your life, at least this streamers make money and get sponsors and im sure they pay the biggest support packs because they can afford.
It would be fun if they had merch store. Though I would assume that maintaining it would be another issue on their plate. Using more of a "dropship" model of merch selling (via supporter packs) is probably more efficient.
need to call my mom to tell her my game has more skill tree then her dinner KEKW
The thing that feels more predatory is Tencent owning all of their shares. Poe China is already significantly more P2W than global. The moment the money slows down, Tencent is gonna step in with the P2W.
People haven't heard of whales spending on Rise of Kingdom is a perfect example.
See i never understand why people say PoE is P2W even without paying anything u get more stash tabs then D4 🤣and then u can pay extra to make it more convenient but u rly dont actually need it and the funny part is anyone who pays 30€ for the early access gets enough MTX currency to buy all the stash tabs they need on top of the access key.
Like i and many people i know played the game for a long time without any extra stash tabs u rly should never feel the need for it during the entire campaign anyway and even early endgame u wont rly need a premium stash tab they mainly become interesting when u rly start to grind maps to just ease ur life with auto sorting and pricing for trade.
You say $480 is too much for a supporter pack, but it just makes me think about how much money I've spent on games and companies that were a lot worse, and didn't care nearly as much for the consumer. Blizzard for instance, I don't even want to think about how much money I've invested into WoW since 2008. Poe is free, the content releases are free, the updates and added systems are free.
Let's trade: Add $3000 supporter pack and remove Kirac's Vault Pass.
I don't think it's games issue that it lets a player spend tons of money for cosmetic stuff. The comparison to Terraria isn't realy accurate since PoE is actual live service and paying $5 and then playing for thousands of hours would just not be sustainable. But then if you buy gametime for some time period some ppl will get the opposite FOMO - i gotta play the game as much as possible and finish it ASAP so i don't have to buy next time period and i can save some money. Plus i wonder how much would like yearly subscription be to cover for everything just by itself, without any MTX.
I havn't heard of or figured out a payment method for PoE i would see rather than the existing one. If rich ppl buy cosmetic $3k supporter pack: Good for you and ty for paying for me. If poor ppl buy cosmetic $3k supporter pack: Too bad and ty for paying for me.
It also is a very complex game for new players and people in general i think to really start and get into properly without some sort of true commitment and dedication.
Meaning that if the game has a sub or pay to enter style of barrier to entry it would make it that much harder for the average person to get in and try the game to see its for them.
In this way its less predatory to them and offers more risk to the developers possibly getting nothing out of that customer for the purpose of making a business game product.
If the game were a more simple generic MMORPG and launched with a sub price it would have likely died years ago.
Given its scale and strong by its nature barrier to entry given its complexity.
I personally think that If the whales are going to "buy them anyway", I see it as a small price to pay for the larger player base to be granted the luxury of getting to play the game.
Saying that it is predatory to market toward whales while still offering the larger crowd the similar if not same experience I think is a testament to the games quality that those people are "STILL" willing to pay out money, even if they feel they really do NOT need to.
Like if you are wealthy and are capable of purchasing such large packs in the first place, I would consider it the lesser of two evils to raise the price of them for those players than offer any other sort of "predatory" method for the everyday player.
This is probably the only true way to monetize a game, keep it free to play, and still come out on top without any major worries for financial stability for your company and product.
the endgame is unplayable without stashtabs
False. You need to stop picking up every trash rare you see.
@@jadetrentrichards255 4 stash tabs? seriously? i can't even fit currency in it.
@@iulianbercaru5540 ignore the white knight
@@planetdustbowl4825 what?
Focus on high currency only, you can exchange hips of other currency with divine orbs so why do you bother to pick everything.
Pay2wear bro, not pay2win
The only thing about the stash tab stuff. They really really need to make currency tabs baseline with PoE2. Most people can without all the specialities tabs. The game is just objectively worse without a currency tab
I agree with the whale hunting take. Its bullshit we justify 480$ packs. Any cosmetic in a videogame shouldn't be behind a 100+ paywall. When league released its 500$ skin Riot rightfully took an L by the the larger gaming community when PoE had been doing it for 10 years. Now with regional pricing gone it's impossible for some countries to even afford the cheaper packages.
Cant be pay to win if its not a competitive pvp game
60 IQ take
@planetdustbowl4825 only mild mental disability thats nice of you
3:25 he literally says 'big dick packs' like you know his brain is all about flexing wealth and status and thats somehow the devs fault for exploiting that? Its exploitative in the same way black friday is exploitative people who dont know what they are getting/doing are going to fall 'victim' to their own hubris.
just because i can buy a mageblood for $6 doesn't mean poe is pay to win!
I bought the $100 supporter pack for $45 because of the regional pricing and still got 1000 points to spend on the shop. I have well over 8k hours on the game and spent like $250 before. If i wasnt living in a third world country i would have spent a lot more.
One time pay vs recurrent pay
makes a big difference
Bad take from Quin. When a developer time and time again put a lot of effort in development and try to listen to their playerbase then they deserve the money. Its not predatory.
I think I have spent 400-500 us dollars on this game and played it for 4000 hours. Thats 0.125 dollars per hour. If that is not well spent money I do not know what is.
RECURRING PAYMENT AUTHORIZED ON 09/22/2017 PATH OF EXILE
Pay to WIN, not pay to play. It exclusively refers to purchasing advantages over other players. It has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of the game. Bank tabs are the only thing you can purchase in PoE that give you any sort of advantage. When you consider the game is free, and the total cost of that advantage equals the cost of your average game, I would argue there is NO pay to win in PoE at all because it is reasonable to consider the cost of those tabs just a price tag for the game once you have decided you like it. And even then, you can avoid purchasing them and not be excluded from anything in the game. PoE does not have pay to win mechanics, period.
I could spend 480 on a single suit and wear it to places I like to regular and you like the way you look. and doing that can be addicting. Designers created stuff for these packs, and you wear them in a place you like to regular and you like the way you look.
It’s not predatory, it’s just supply and demand
I played a mobile game for like a year and a half. There were people in my clan that said they had spent over $10k on the game. It's mind-boggling.
I don't like the "I was just lazy so i bough it" argument. You can say it about p2w too, for example: I was too lazy to grind, so I bought materials for rl money (p2w). Stash tabs might be qol, veeery low on p2w scale and non predatory in comparison to what we currently have in games, but imo they should still get rid of it.
I'm one of those that almost always buys the $480 pack, eventually. I am OK with their pack pricing, but the pricing on the visual mtx in the store are hands down predatory. Prices should be about 1/2 of what they are. I have even bought the same packs more than once because I wanted more points to spend on those seasonal loot boxes, chasing an armor set. I have 15-20 PoE t-shirts and ... 5 hoodies? Matter of fact, I'm wearing the Searing Exarch t-shirt right now.
Nobody is forcing the whales to buy cosmetics, it's totally up to them
POE is not pay to win, but maps, currency and 4 more stash tabs are the entry fee to run the game smoothly. The same idiots that buy the $480 pack without having the means, if there was no $480 pack would buy something else stupid, like a car they can't afford, or a house, or something else. GGG is not responsible for ppl with bad spending habits, they are responsible for making a good game without exponential p2w mechanics, only an entry fee.
I think about it this way: whatever a solid stack of stash tabs costs, that's what the game costs. There's also the option to play for free.
I will say i don't actually like F2P games with cosmetics purely because they're obviously making design decisions based on the fact they want to sell cool cosmetics seperately, but that's a trade off for the free option i guess. I'd rather pay $10-15 per month and have cooler designs in the base game, but I'm probably the minority.
It's absolutely worth getting the stash tabs after when you get into it. Just so QoL. And all your mtx will transfer between poe and poe2 when possible
They should honestly just charge like $70 for the entire game and thats it. No stash tabs, cosmetics or whatever else. Cosmetics are always so cheesy in games like this... It defeats the whole purpose of looting cool items... D4 does it and is the main reason I quit playing. I dont want to have to pay 25 dollars or whatever for a skin that looks cooler than everything that drops in game... Plus paid DLC expansions are fine. Thats another way to make a lot of money...
Ethical? Come on the market sets the price.
I can't believe the amount of outrageous losers i see in the comments crying about adults doing as they wish with their money. I can't imagine spending $500 on a 'supporter pack' for a F2P game ... but if there is a market for it, it will exist.
Mobile games aren't mostly paid by whales . Using the one guy on Diablo Immortal who spent 100k , people on his individual server paid more for battlepasses then all the whales combined . Whales are a big influx but aren't the people buying battle passes every month like clockwork. Huge number of battle pass Andys make up majority of income, Tencent makes 80% off bpass and cosmetics in their games including Glory of Kings which is among most played in history of games.
People who call this p2w. You win against who? It's pay to get stash tabs.
I spent like 50$ in total and I got all the stash tabs that I might want. I dont have all of them but I think I have enough where its not too troublesome aside the divination card one. Im kinda sad losing my job just as poe2 release andI cant join many people as I need to tighten the belt specially I am not in the US and the conversion of it is really high in my country. Still, I am no veteran of this game. I started on last necro league on its last week and everything was handed over to me. I didnt know crafting, or majority of things. The last league was my official entry to the game and it was a blast. Its it free to play. The game is free to pay. Get 2 quad tab I think that will help a lot already. The game is amazing. If I have the funds, I would buy that 480$ too just to pay for the amount of fun I had in poe1.
It’s funny when people complain about a game that cost 100 bucks. Defend a game like Poe that it’s free but spend 2-3k on it. lol. Love the game I just find this mentality hilarious.
have you considered composing your comments in english?
@@saqu_1 Have you considered constructing a thought
free game, 0 barrier to entry, optional spending to support the devs after thousands of hours of free gameplay
vs
non-optional spending AND the same monetization tactics in the game after the $100 price tag AND the game is SHIT.
Sure, theres a comparison. It's just not the one you think.
Are the prices high? Yes, very* - GGG could make certain things more affordable, but the business model is working for them, people are buying stuff. There is no reason for them to reduce prices, and the fact they have the best ARPG now and will up themselves with POE 2 tells us something.
I just dont understand some people. Its like talking to a brick wall that makes problems in it's own head.
PoE is NOT a p2w game although you do have QoL stuff for money. Now, you get a FULL game with a LOT of content for FREE(not a trial like wow or other games). You CAN spend money on it but dont need to(i got addicted in harvest and havent bought anything until ritual/ultimatum).
Ill repeat. Its NOT a trial for a game. You get the same exact content for free of charge. Dropping couple of dollars down the line to make your experience better + supporting guys that make a damn good game and give free updates (instead of paid dlc bullshit) is not that big of a deal
League of legends is actually p2w, but people say it isn't.
I think most gamers are just clueless as to what p2w actually is.
think about it, 30$ early access; which == in game currency for the stash tabs Quinn is talking about. its basically buying the full game
Quin I love ya work man but you gotta understand that yeah they could get by with a lower cap on the supporter packs but all this excess profit allows for 1) simultaneous upkeep of both poe1/2. 2) very likely a MUCH faster headstart in the development of poe 2. 3) the likelihood that they can pour money into FUTURE projects and on that note why wouldnt we want a company that has proven time and time again that they can make an AMAZING product in an industry of wolves that we know at this point in time we can trust.
5:28 people that are bad with money will just find something else to waste it on. GGG is a gaming company, not your parent.
Eat like Jude Law in Gattaca to buy supporter packs is wild 🥴
I don't think they are doing anything bad, whoever has money and wants to buy something, will buy it, I bought myself something that was interesting, in 10 years I spent $45 and that's not much at all, but how much money did I spend in 12 years of playing WoW????.....
I don't think anyone will sell their last pair of underwear to buy a pack for $480
I don't know what the problem is, do you think the game should be exclusively free? They're just trying to make money too, they need to pay the developers for 10 years, Karl, they've been releasing a free game for 10 years, here they're releasing some mind-blowing content, and if I were rich, I'd buy it once for $10,000 to support the developer who's been giving joy in a free game for over 10 years
I did the 219 version. I don’t care if GGG already made it. Have you seen POE2? They put in ridiculous hard work and it shows. What’s 219 to me if I get 500 hours out of poe2? That is Pennies for that much entertainment… and it guarantees that game stays around. No brainer in this case for me.
I'd agree with Quin's take on 480$ pack if not for the fact that you get 480$ worth of points + all the cosmetics from the pack
"Cannot not buy it" is likely one of the worst takes I've heard on cosmetic mtxs ever...
crazy how people will twist their opinions depending if it's about something they like vs hate.
yes PoE is P2W by definition. no it doesn't really matter because the "free" game is basically freeware, you're supposed to "buy" the game by getting stash tabs.
i'd much rather spend $100 on PoE "box price" than $70 on d4.
You can call it predatory, but their money Is whats going to drive GGG to keep it up.
Let them spend so we can reap the rewards for free.
About $2k a year for literally every big dick supporter pack whale hunting collection = predatory
$25k in a couple of weeks for a mobile game you play for less than a month before uninstalling forever = fine
Classic takes Quin, keep it up!
Is not pay to win, but the experience without stash tabs being new is horrible while u are progressing, u at least need the currency and maps stash tabs for enjoy the game, anyway that's just like 20-30 dollars, and with the coins that u received+ the key for 30 dollars, and u can buy that and a bit more...
If you make it to maps you owe GGG money for entertaining you.