@@GambitMan Yes i posted a link to a game i played on Lichess in which a lot of pieces were left hanging on both sides and neither of us were fond of taking them. I don't think it was a high level game but it was one of the craziest and most fun games i ever played. Sacrifice galore. 😅
Hmm ok I really wanna see so why don’t we do this: you paste here the characters after the slash in the url, and then I’ll construct the url (by adding “lichess.org/“ before your characters) and paste it here for everybody? Lol
Just realized I forgot to include the Lichess Study link to the Sneider Attack in the description as I do for all my opening videos!! So sorry, just put it in there. Also I'll leave it here :) lichess.org/study/Dfr8EvFW
Just watched this video about an hour ago, and my opponent just played into it: they immediately blundered after bc4. They played g6, after which qe5+, picking up the rook. Thanks for your videos on these gambits, they are a lot of fun! 🕶
In the falkbeer countergambit there is a sideline called the blackburne attack which is a counter counter gambit, and if you reach it from the froms gambit move order that would make it a counter counter counter gambit :)
The falkbeer countergambit can be a counter-countergambit, but only if reached with the move order 1.f4 e5 (From’s gambit) 2.e4 (reaching the Kings gambit, which is now countergambitting From’s gambit) …d5 (reaching the falkbeer countergambit which countergambits the kings gambit which in turn is countergambitting From’s gambit)
Hahaha okay I’ve got a counter-counter-countergambit for you there actually! It’s called the “Hinrichsen gambit”: 1. f4 e5 (gambit) 2. e4 (c-gambit) d5 (cc-gambit) 3. d4 (ccc-gambit) Thoughts? Apparently it’s a real opening, arguably legitimate. I guess we could get one more “c” if somehow black does not make any of the three pawn captures available to them in this position :)
@@GambitMan this is one of the wilder positions I’ve seen for sure. I’m looking at the lichess database and it looks like in that position c5 has been played 434 times out of 25,630 (adding one more c) and in the position after c5, c4 offering the c pawn as well has been played 74 times adding another, for a final position of a counter-counter-counter-counter-countergambit. It’s pretty hard to get on the board, but even though the lichess engine really likes black I think it looks pretty confusing for beginner and intermediate players. What’s funny is the two most common responses at that point are f5 and b5, gambitting another pawn. Beyond that it seems to just enter meme territory from what I can tell unfortunately.
There is a counter-countergambit in the king's gambit, the Hinrichsen gambit against the Falkbeer countergambit (against the king's gambit) which goes: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.d4... (Stockfish says -0.9) The funny part is that there exists an unnamed counter-counter-countergambit with 3... f5 (Stockfish says +0.9) Even then, white can play a counter-counter-counter-countergambit with 4.c4... (Stockfish says -1.1) If you want to continue the madness, you can try 4... c5 or 4...b5, which are both 4x(counter-)countergambits, but they aren't as sound according to Stockfish (+1.9 both of them).
I played today the Von Popiel in OTB rapid game (15+10) and won vs a much higher rated opponent! I dont have the game written but I remember it went something like 1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 g6 5. Qd2 e3 6. Bxe3 Ng4 7. Bf4 Bg7 8. O-O-O O-O 9. f3 Nf6 10. Bh6 Nc6 11. Nge2 a6 12. h4 b5 13. h5 b4 14. Ne4 Nxe4 15. fxe4 Qd6 16. hxg6 Qxg6 17. Bxg7 Kxg7 and from here I don't remember exactly. I didn't converted the best so the game lasted much longer But I think I always had a decent advantage
the closest thing I can think of to a counter counter gambit would be in the englund gambit, there's this tricky line as white with d4 e5 dxe5 Nc6 Nf3 Qe7 Bf4 Qb4+ Nc3, where they countergambit the c4 bishop but get a tricky position and win the a8 rook, so I tend to avoid it with Qxb2, going back to a +2ish position instead of keeping equality with Qxf4, allowing Bd2 transposing into the main line where they tend to know less theory as they are used to the Nc3 line
Great video! And there actually is a counter-counter gambit, which is in the london system. 1.d4 d5 2. Bf4 c5 (steinitz counter gambit) 3.e4 (morris counter gambit) which is basically a counter counter gambit. Btw, what is the response in the von popiel to 3... c5 and 3...f5?
I’ll prob stream today after work! (New York time). I don’t really have a schedule (maybe I should make one), but if you follow me on twitch.tv/wgraif and then get the twitch app and enable notifications and all that, you should get notified every time that I go live! :)
Ah very interesting suggestion!! I definitely would have to disagree on the evaluation though. Here is my analysis. 1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 e5 4. Qh5 Nc6!? 5. dxe5 Nd4 (7/73 plays) 6. Qd1 Kind of humorous that white goes Qh5-Qd1 and is justified in doing so! But each side has only developed here one knight, and white's is threatening the e4-pawn which would put the first player up a pawn. White wants to first play Be3 to kick black's d4-knight, and so they need to find the only move here. 6... Bg4! (two out of the five games remaining in the Lichess database here have this move) 7. Nge2 Nxe2 8. Qxd8+ (deviating from the only remaining game in the database) Rxd8 9. Bxe2 +/- white has a very good advantage in the endgame, either just winning a pawn or at the very least being ahead in development 7... Nc6 is a tricky improvement, denying white a favorable exchange on e2, although black will still be worse in the endgame after 8. Qxd8+ Rxd8 9. Bd2 +/= White will castle long, both sides will capture an e-pawn, and white is for choice due to the development advantage :) Let me know your thoughts! -William
Thanks for your reply which is an improvement on Scheerer‘s line. After taking on e5 and e4 it looks pretty playable for both sides, probably more comfortable for White.
In John Cox's dealing with D4 deviations, he also gives 4...Nc6 but follows up with 5.exd Bb4+ 6.Bd2 g6 7.Qe2 Nd4 8.Qd1 Bf5 with a similar but seemingly stronger position for black than the Sheerer Bg4 line listed above. The Cox line continues 9.Be3 c5 10.Nge2 Qa5 and doesn't look appetizing for white. but much more wild and in spirit of your channel is the wild non-book 9. g4 Qh4 lines where black sacrifices a piece to cripple White's position, of course fish just says "equal" lol. Black could also play 9...Bd7 or e3 with seeming equality. Lastly not covered in the book but seems like a good safe similar position: 4...nc6 5.exd g6 6.Qe2 Nd4 7.Qd1 Bg7. Of course, quite possible that I forget all of this and blunder quickly 😅 @@GambitMan
actually there is ... 1e4c5, 2 d4 Mora Gambit ... d5!? reverse Albin counter Gambit or the scandinavian move order 1e4d5, 2d4 Blackmar Diemer gambit and here ... 2...c5 transposes to the same reverse Albin gambit against the queen gambit
Well you have this www.lichess.org/study/Dfr8EvFW But this is a good question! I really recommend to never “memorize” openings. I know tons of theory in the lines that I played in years of classical chess, necessary for making FM, but I never memorized one single move. I can replay any one of my games from over the years, but if you right now gave me a completely random series of chess moves, I could not remember it. There is no logic to them. And that’s what we need to remember. The purpose behind our moves. For example, in the Qxd4 line here, we remember the importance of hitting their queen because we want to go Qxe5+, or that we always want to go Bc4 in these lines to hit f7, and we know this idea of maneuvering out queen from h5 to f3 to d5 in order to get them on f7! These are ideas that we can apply to our own games, when our opponent could very well deviate from the moves we have prepared! We want to understand the position so that we can know why their deviations are bad (we covered all the *good* moves in the video) and punish them correctly. Yes, you’ll have to remember the first few moves at least - for example, after d4 d5 e4 dxe4 Nc3 e5 Qh5 exd4 Bc4 Qe7 you’ll have to remember to go Bg5 (and not Nd5, like in the Qf6 line, because this allows Nf6 for black), but once you get to those positions after trading on f6 and going Nd5 and o-o-o, you’ll remember the ideas presented in this video to attack and be able to combine them with your own good judgement during games!! :) those are my thoughts! Best of luck. -William
It's an older video, do you still play this? If i was black i would never take the pawn once you play Qh5. (i hope) i think i would rather protect that f pawn and play Be6 to prevent your bishop on c4 and go from there.
Interesting idea! I only covered all the relatively common moves for black in this video, in addition to the engine recommendations. I beat a very strong player really quickly on stream a little while ago, in a nice game :) first one in this video ruclips.net/video/_oAvsBBoqB8/видео.html
Hey so that’s actually not the line recommended in the video. On move 7, white should just capture on c7 and is better. Trade on c7, Nxd4 o-o-o for instance :)
What’s your favorite countergambit? What about counter-countergambit? :)
Do you have links blocked completely or do you have them up for review first? :)
Hi, I believe that there should be no automated filters. Did you try to paste a link and it wouldn't let you?
@@GambitMan Yes i posted a link to a game i played on Lichess in which a lot of pieces were left hanging on both sides and neither of us were fond of taking them. I don't think it was a high level game but it was one of the craziest and most fun games i ever played. Sacrifice galore. 😅
What about a counter-counter-countergambit?
Hmm ok I really wanna see so why don’t we do this: you paste here the characters after the slash in the url, and then I’ll construct the url (by adding “lichess.org/“ before your characters) and paste it here for everybody? Lol
Since watching the von Popiel video, 73% winning with the white pieces. So fun to play.
Just realized I forgot to include the Lichess Study link to the Sneider Attack in the description as I do for all my opening videos!! So sorry, just put it in there. Also I'll leave it here :)
lichess.org/study/Dfr8EvFW
Just watched this video about an hour ago, and my opponent just played into it: they immediately blundered after bc4. They played g6, after which qe5+, picking up the rook. Thanks for your videos on these gambits, they are a lot of fun! 🕶
So cool!! Love these gambits, bro =)
LOL the bloopers at the end are great
In the falkbeer countergambit there is a sideline called the blackburne attack which is a counter counter gambit, and if you reach it from the froms gambit move order that would make it a counter counter counter gambit :)
Oo and what about the hinrichsen gambit? f4 e5 e4 d5 d4!? Maybe something similar is possible in the albin countergambit haha
@@GambitMan what about this insane1. e4 e5 2. d4 d5 known as the beyer
@@GambitMan me and my mate call this the Albin Albin Albin counter counter counter gambit
Excellent Video!
Thanks a lot!
The falkbeer countergambit can be a counter-countergambit, but only if reached with the move order 1.f4 e5 (From’s gambit) 2.e4 (reaching the Kings gambit, which is now countergambitting From’s gambit) …d5 (reaching the falkbeer countergambit which countergambits the kings gambit which in turn is countergambitting From’s gambit)
Hahaha okay I’ve got a counter-counter-countergambit for you there actually! It’s called the “Hinrichsen gambit”:
1. f4 e5 (gambit)
2. e4 (c-gambit) d5 (cc-gambit)
3. d4 (ccc-gambit)
Thoughts? Apparently it’s a real opening, arguably legitimate. I guess we could get one more “c” if somehow black does not make any of the three pawn captures available to them in this position :)
@@GambitMan and black in that position plays C5!?
losing immediately i might add, to dxe5
@@GambitMan this is one of the wilder positions I’ve seen for sure. I’m looking at the lichess database and it looks like in that position c5 has been played 434 times out of 25,630 (adding one more c) and in the position after c5, c4 offering the c pawn as well has been played 74 times adding another, for a final position of a counter-counter-counter-counter-countergambit. It’s pretty hard to get on the board, but even though the lichess engine really likes black I think it looks pretty confusing for beginner and intermediate players. What’s funny is the two most common responses at that point are f5 and b5, gambitting another pawn. Beyond that it seems to just enter meme territory from what I can tell unfortunately.
@@getmilked6216 3... f5 there is perfectly playable
There is a counter-countergambit in the king's gambit, the Hinrichsen gambit against the Falkbeer countergambit (against the king's gambit) which goes: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.d4... (Stockfish says -0.9)
The funny part is that there exists an unnamed counter-counter-countergambit with 3... f5 (Stockfish says +0.9)
Even then, white can play a counter-counter-counter-countergambit with 4.c4... (Stockfish says -1.1)
If you want to continue the madness, you can try 4... c5 or 4...b5, which are both 4x(counter-)countergambits, but they aren't as sound according to Stockfish (+1.9 both of them).
At 28:24 or so can black try to plug the center by playing f5 to hold e4 ???
I played today the Von Popiel in OTB rapid game (15+10) and won vs a much higher rated opponent! I dont have the game written but I remember it went something like
1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 g6 5. Qd2 e3 6. Bxe3 Ng4 7. Bf4 Bg7 8. O-O-O O-O 9. f3 Nf6 10. Bh6 Nc6 11. Nge2 a6 12. h4 b5 13. h5 b4 14. Ne4 Nxe4 15. fxe4 Qd6 16. hxg6 Qxg6 17. Bxg7 Kxg7 and from here I don't remember exactly.
I didn't converted the best so the game lasted much longer But I think I always had a decent advantage
Love it!!!! :) video coming soon on my live-streamed win vs IM on attacking vs fianchetto setups in the VPG!
the closest thing I can think of to a counter counter gambit would be in the englund gambit, there's this tricky line as white with d4 e5 dxe5 Nc6 Nf3 Qe7 Bf4 Qb4+ Nc3, where they countergambit the c4 bishop but get a tricky position and win the a8 rook, so I tend to avoid it with Qxb2, going back to a +2ish position instead of keeping equality with Qxf4, allowing Bd2 transposing into the main line where they tend to know less theory as they are used to the Nc3 line
Great video! And there actually is a counter-counter gambit, which is in the london system. 1.d4 d5 2. Bf4 c5 (steinitz counter gambit) 3.e4 (morris counter gambit) which is basically a counter counter gambit. Btw, what is the response in the von popiel to 3... c5 and 3...f5?
Do you have a streaming schedule? I'd love to catch you live sometime.
I’ll prob stream today after work! (New York time). I don’t really have a schedule (maybe I should make one), but if you follow me on twitch.tv/wgraif and then get the twitch app and enable notifications and all that, you should get notified every time that I go live! :)
I have been using the Bushgas and doing good , but have not mastered it thats for sure
Apart from 8..Qg6 and Qe7, there is also Qf5, isn‘t it?
Scheerer in his book on the BDG recommends 4.Nc6 as almost winning for Black, 5.de5 Nd4
Ah very interesting suggestion!! I definitely would have to disagree on the evaluation though. Here is my analysis.
1. d4 d5
2. e4 dxe4
3. Nc3 e5
4. Qh5 Nc6!?
5. dxe5 Nd4 (7/73 plays)
6. Qd1
Kind of humorous that white goes Qh5-Qd1 and is justified in doing so! But each side has only developed here one knight, and white's is threatening the e4-pawn which would put the first player up a pawn. White wants to first play Be3 to kick black's d4-knight, and so they need to find the only move here.
6... Bg4! (two out of the five games remaining in the Lichess database here have this move)
7. Nge2 Nxe2
8. Qxd8+ (deviating from the only remaining game in the database) Rxd8
9. Bxe2 +/- white has a very good advantage in the endgame, either just winning a pawn or at the very least being ahead in development
7... Nc6 is a tricky improvement, denying white a favorable exchange on e2, although black will still be worse in the endgame after
8. Qxd8+ Rxd8
9. Bd2 +/=
White will castle long, both sides will capture an e-pawn, and white is for choice due to the development advantage :)
Let me know your thoughts!
-William
Thanks for your reply which is an improvement on Scheerer‘s line. After taking on e5 and e4 it looks pretty playable for both sides, probably more comfortable for White.
In John Cox's dealing with D4 deviations, he also gives 4...Nc6 but follows up with 5.exd Bb4+ 6.Bd2 g6 7.Qe2 Nd4 8.Qd1 Bf5 with a similar but seemingly stronger position for black than the Sheerer Bg4 line listed above. The Cox line continues 9.Be3 c5 10.Nge2 Qa5 and doesn't look appetizing for white. but much more wild and in spirit of your channel is the wild non-book 9. g4 Qh4 lines where black sacrifices a piece to cripple White's position, of course fish just says "equal" lol. Black could also play 9...Bd7 or e3 with seeming equality. Lastly not covered in the book but seems like a good safe similar position: 4...nc6 5.exd g6 6.Qe2 Nd4 7.Qd1 Bg7. Of course, quite possible that I forget all of this and blunder quickly 😅 @@GambitMan
actually there is ... 1e4c5, 2 d4 Mora Gambit ... d5!? reverse Albin counter Gambit or the scandinavian move order 1e4d5, 2d4 Blackmar Diemer gambit and here ... 2...c5 transposes to the same reverse Albin gambit against the queen gambit
How to remember all of this ?
Well you have this
www.lichess.org/study/Dfr8EvFW
But this is a good question! I really recommend to never “memorize” openings. I know tons of theory in the lines that I played in years of classical chess, necessary for making FM, but I never memorized one single move. I can replay any one of my games from over the years, but if you right now gave me a completely random series of chess moves, I could not remember it. There is no logic to them.
And that’s what we need to remember. The purpose behind our moves. For example, in the Qxd4 line here, we remember the importance of hitting their queen because we want to go Qxe5+, or that we always want to go Bc4 in these lines to hit f7, and we know this idea of maneuvering out queen from h5 to f3 to d5 in order to get them on f7! These are ideas that we can apply to our own games, when our opponent could very well deviate from the moves we have prepared! We want to understand the position so that we can know why their deviations are bad (we covered all the *good* moves in the video) and punish them correctly. Yes, you’ll have to remember the first few moves at least - for example, after d4 d5 e4 dxe4 Nc3 e5 Qh5 exd4 Bc4 Qe7 you’ll have to remember to go Bg5 (and not Nd5, like in the Qf6 line, because this allows Nf6 for black), but once you get to those positions after trading on f6 and going Nd5 and o-o-o, you’ll remember the ideas presented in this video to attack and be able to combine them with your own good judgement during games!! :) those are my thoughts! Best of luck.
-William
At some point the counter gambits become a game of refusing material
Critical is 4...Nc6.
It's an older video, do you still play this? If i was black i would never take the pawn once you play Qh5. (i hope) i think i would rather protect that f pawn and play Be6 to prevent your bishop on c4 and go from there.
Interesting idea! I only covered all the relatively common moves for black in this video, in addition to the engine recommendations.
I beat a very strong player really quickly on stream a little while ago, in a nice game :) first one in this video
ruclips.net/video/_oAvsBBoqB8/видео.html
After 4.Dh5 Sf6! 5.De5:+ Le7 6.Lf4 Sc6 7.Lb5 00 8.Lc6: Ld6! 9.Dg5 bc: what has white achieved? A worse position is all that comes to mind.
Hey so that’s actually not the line recommended in the video. On move 7, white should just capture on c7 and is better. Trade on c7, Nxd4 o-o-o for instance :)
More critical is 4.Se4:
D4 against falkbeer
This is normal teori