The Return of The Green Goblin: Spider-Man Clone Saga Conclusion | Comics Explained
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This channel was designed to assist in answering all of your questions about Marvel Comics and DC Comics in an easy to understand way.
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The Clone Saga or Spider-Clone Saga was a major story arc in Marvel Comics which ran from 1994 to 1996 involving many clones of Spider-Man. The story is one of the most controversial Spider-Man stories ever told.
I feel this is the best way to experience the clone saga
Completely agree.
Andrew MumboJumbo 100 percent
Short of reading it in serial month to month on my stomach as a kid in a sunbeam on the livingroom floor. This is as good as it gets.
And the less confusing way.
Killing Spider-Man's baby, just to make him still "young" is so tasteless
it's tasteless and really messed up
Dark Tales Production And renew your vows proofs that a dad peter parker could make a incredible story.
yup indeed but not also Renew your vows also there's the Spider-girl aka mayday Parker series who's also the daughter of peter parker and mary jane
They constantly fuck Spidey over like that from this, to his marriage to MJ. It's like despite everything he's been through Marvel doesn't want to really develop the character past what he's always been. I was really surprised when they made him rich.
They did even made Norman osborn poison MJ to make that happening.
I guess I'm one of the few people that really loved when they switched things up making Ben Spider-man. Have a fond place in my heart for that run.
You are not alone.
My personal fave.
I honestly wouldn't have minded Peter and Mary Jane moving away to leave Ben to be Spider-Man. My problem with it is that they tried to make Ben the original which basically would've meant all Peter's experiences since the first battle with the Jackal wouldn't have been him.
I love Ben Reilly, I just hate how they introduced him in such a bad story line
"There's a clone of Gwen Stacy that's pretending to be a clone, pretending to be a woman, pretending to be a clone." LMAO
What in the ever living hell was Marvel thinking.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
@SpeedyGeorgie 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
September 2019
Guess who's back....yes they're officially rolling Spider-Gwen into the main universe meaning Gwen Stacy's pretty much back from the dead and oh boy hopefully they forgot that clone of Gwen is still out there or things will get even more confusing
Making my head hurt.
Rob eats a steak like…"This is the BEST steak coming out of this steak house right now!"
"If GOD was making steaks right now this is what it would taste like!"
"Lemme tell you something maan, maan Lemme tell you something maan…This steak is the BEST thing coming out of this steak house right now!!!!"
Theendman i read this in his voice in my head 🤣
As was necessary for proper humor.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thanks for covering this series, Rob. I remember loosely reading the clone saga when i was a kid and i found it interesting back then. I just didn't think it was a glorified jumbled mess, until I saw your videos. But for some reason I always found Scarlet Spider to be interesting to me, even today. Hell i loved that one small story arc where Ben had the Carnage Symbiote for a time but then Peter helped removed it from his body.
While the story might be convoluted, I love the artist. Those giant eyes make Spider-Man look awesome. This and Ultimate Spiderman (Peter Parker) are my favorite versions of the suit. Oh, does anyone know who this artist is?
Tuba_G Mark Bagely he's the best Venom and Carnage artist in fact he was the 1st person to draw Carnage The Spider-Man PS1 Games used him for concept art
CyberNinjaZero Thanks!
Todd McFarline actually started drawing Spiderman's eyes bigger and is my favorite Spiderman artist
I always loved that too which made me sad when they got that talentless guy who who makes everything look like squares and shit to draw the conclusion. I can't recall his name, but he also did the last plant Hulk comic where he fights the Sentry. I can't stand his "art".
MrRoccoandhunter I love MacFarlane black suit spider man...spider man issue 13 and 14
The Spider-Man cartoon from the 90s handled this soooo much better
laith pendragon for real though
laith pendragon i was just thinking the same thing.
laith pendragon how did they deal with the Clone Saga?
Details....???
spider man the 1994 episodes 7 through 13 deals with clones and based around the clone saga
you dont have to watch the rest of the show to watch these episodes but i sugest it because the show
is realy goood
Thanks for giving us the abridged clone saga :)
Dude, great video series. I can't believe you managed to discuss so much and yet never even mentioned Spidercide, or The Nightmare Begins, or any of the other crazy bullshit that, as a kid, struck me as some of the most enjoyably dumb parts of the Clone Saga. I unironically love the Clone Saga in all its horrid glory.
The death of Ben Reilly is one of the best stories i have read, in the end he didn't even know if he was a clone but he didn't hesitate for a second to jump in front of that glider. Also to my knowledge he has stayed dead so it was actually a real death in superhero universe, something that is usually pretty rare. I personally liked the character and didn't mind that he was the main focus for a while in the comics, made the death more meaningful when he was finally axed off.
I love that you handled this garbage in a "quick, fast, and in a hurry" manner. Thanks for another great explanation
This was great. I stopped reading comics just as the clone saga started so never got to find out what happened. After all these years, I get a lovely rundown of what happened. Love your work!
Thank you for "cutting a swath through" the clone saga to provide us with the core of the story. Normally I prefer detailed storytelling, but this story did get super crazy.
if the clones dissolve when they die.. then why is there a clone skeleton in the hole?
haha they needed a quick way out, thats why. That or that osborn just killed a random person dressed it up like spiderman and said it was a clone, pfft old comics, best not look into it too much hahaha
BECAUSE THAT'S THE ORIGINAL PETER PARKER. e'rybody else is a clone. Been sayin' it for years.
#clonesdontleavebones
jayjay sevilla God awful writing. That explains everything about clone saga
It was actually Miles Warren, And The Jackal was the clone, Wait... But then why was it wearing a Spidey outfit?!?!?!? I got nothing...
Daaaaamn. This...was...crazy. I own a few of these comics as a kid. I picked an interesting time to start reading Spiderman. Thanks for clarifying the second Clone saga. R.I.P. Ben Riley.
I had a few of these comics when they came out... and i had no idea what was going on. Thank you for explaining, it's nice to finally understand most of it.
If I wore a hat I'd take it off to you. You have a mastery of story telling and ACCURATELY transferring information. This is how it happened in the books in order with minimal if no narrative liberties.
Dude! Thanks bunch for this 4-episode run of the original clone saga!
Dunno if you'll manage to read this now tho, considering this comment is kinda a few months late to your vid post :p
Yet I just really wanted to leave you a heartfelt thank-you-note:
This was without a doubt one of the best youtube explaining runs I've watched; I'm especially thankful to you because you managed to summarise and pick out the essential points of a rather complicated saga that I have neglected for so long.
Honestly up until now I was only familiar with the later iterations and reinterpretations of this arc and I could never understand or agree with why marvel always tried to reincorporate this arc in more recent versions; which for me have always made me feel like they were the weaker plot-points of any spider-verse version (as in spiralling a straightforward coming of age superhero story outta *clusterfuck* control).
But now thanks to you I feel like I have a better hindsight and understanding of why the original clone saga has had such a quintessential contribution and impact to the natural progression/growth of the spider-man character (albeit also being a prime example on how comic book story arcs are only to often cursed with good potential that leads to bad execution because of milking the cow too much)!
These vids of yours have rewaken in me a fondness and appreciation for the original spider-man comic run that I was only vaguely familiar with due to the 90's animated cartoon series. Because up until now what I personally viewed as my preferred cannon version, solely because of what I was familiar with, was the ultimate-spiderman (comics) storyline :D
Again, thank you for your work and wish all the best! Will be awaiting your next vids with much anticipation!
Cheers
Thanks, Rob. I'm not a Spider-Man reader and this was quite informative.
I spoke with Tom Lyle (co-creator of Scarlet Spider) at a convention last year and he wished Marvel would have stuck to their guns and kept Ben.
He either wanted the story to end with the trail and have Ben take over one of the books as Scarlet Spider or after the reveal of Ben being the original, just stick to it and not backing down.
Good luck on the move Rob! Keep up the great content!
After this, could you please do The Real Clone Saga?! It was a retelling of the Clone Saga as it was originally intended.
yup and i love real clone saga
Allen Babylon ?
Good job Rob i finally understand this crazy arc of spider-man.
Fantastic series! This went really well IMO. I subscribed and am loving the channel. Would you ever consider covering Identity Crisis? I used to try and collect back issues from that arc and back issues of "Slingers" whenever I could find them but I never got the whole story!
Thanks for explaining it all!
Killing Peter's baby was the worst moment of my comic book reading life! I remember staying in denial, thinking the baby had been kidnapped or something. I stopped reading Spider-Man comics after that! :(
The baby lived. Osborn kidnapped her. Her name is May...she had a comic book that Marvel couldn't kill. It was cancelled 3 times and flushed out so much more of this story.
@SLUG BOY Just Google Spidergirl or Mayday parker...Great set of books!
the baby gets kidnapped by the nurse and brought by her to europe - all that was planned the norman osborn and is reveald on the last page of the amazing spider-man 418 - part 3 of the final clone chapter "Revelations" - the guy from the video is wrong - denial :b i also stopped reading a few issues after ben died.
I don't understand why everyone is so upset over this. sure it's sad, but no more sad than the death of gwen stacy. so many parents experience the grief of a stillborn child, the same way others experience the death of the person they love. why is one ok while the other is in bad taste?
@@myth86715 it did not even die - there is a twist on the next page but the creator of this video apparently did not read it
Do you remember the part in the series when peter started the black costume with a jean jacket over top of it. I thought it was so badass, at the time...
Wait so you’re telling me after Ben Riley and Peter Parker had the fight in the first clone saga the real Peter Parker got knocked out and changed his name to Ben Riley and the clone lived on as the regular Peter Parker up until the second clone saga where it was all revealed that peter Parker was Peter Parker and Ben Reilly is Ben Riley instead of Peter being Ben and vice versa? Norman Osborn says “ it’s just a prank bruh”
I think Norman Osborn's hair is supposed to have waves but it looks like horizontal cornrows
that's bothered me for years
Hey Rob I love all your videos but after trying to follow all these clone saga videos got my head hurting bad!!!
It's sad when you realize how much of this was done to please Speculators, Shock Value, Writers and Editors that wanted to be lazy or focus more on their Passion Projects (Looking at you Bob Harris since it was your desire to have Onslaught published first rather then finishing the clone saga, and you Joe Quesada for "THAT STORY WHICH DOES NOT EXIST") and simply because the Marketing Department was afraid of fan backlash, the Clone Saga could've ended with rave reviews and gone onto become a classic, but the Marketing guys being afraid of alienating those speculators or core fans led to a convoluted mess. Whole reason I have a soft spot for the Clone Saga is my first comic was Web of Scarlet Spider #1, a Clone Saga book. But looking back there were some high lights Venom had a pretty good run during the Clone Saga era
Thanks for doing what you do Rob! Rob Corps!
You've done a tremendous job making sense of the Gordian Knot that is the clone saga! Thanks for punishing your brain for our benefit 🤣
Didn't see that anyone else has mentioned this, so I figured I would. At 11:32 “...the Teen Titans were his predicessor..."
That's not quite accurate.
Amazing Fantasy #15 August 1962 Amazing Spider-Man #1 March 1963
Brave and the Bold #54 July 1964
'ol webhead had been adventuring for a full year and four months before the Teen Titans made the scene
Keep up the great work man!
I would've liked it more if you actually touched on Spidercide, who's supposed to be the clone of a clone from what i understand. We see him in a few of the panels you show, but his actual role in the story was never really fleshed out
This was Awesome!
Really enjoy your content. Could you add episode numbers to make it easy to pick up on content that was missed. I don't know where to start with this clone sags :(
I actually really liked Ben Riley I think if someone took it over today with a more cohesive, straightforward plot it could be really good.
I wish Ben Reilly could have survived. He was a good character despite the majority of the Clone Saga sucking so hard.
I loved Ben Reilly Spider-Man. Scarlet Spider was one of my favorite versions of Spider-Man.
...he's still dead? He's actually dead? For real?
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 He was dead for over 20 years. Dan Slott brought him back a few years ago in The Clone Conspiracy (the third clone saga) which was actually good. As of a few months ago Ben is Spider-Man again, because Peter's on life support after getting injured in a fight.
I'd dare to say regardless the middle of the story the end was really fitting and enjoyable.
Godspeed Spider-Man
Thank you soooooooo much for doing this. I got in to spiderman during the 90's as a child with the fox TV show, with xmen & fantastic 4. When I was an early teen, 99 to 2000, my dad found a comic shop were I could get 25 cent comics. At that point I was spending all the money I could on comics that looked cool & had never herd of. DC had me with green lantern Kyle Rayner & Superboy. But in this comic book shop I found this 25 cent holo cover clone wars spiderman comic that I couldn't pass up. I mean he was the first superhero I looked up to plus 25 cent for holo. Needless to say it was the prize of my collection haha. In addition I found the one with scarlet spider & spiderman going head to head plus one more. So I read them & found out about Peter being a clone, but never could find the end to this story. Now being 30 I am so happy, thanks to you, to finally get some resolve. You are the best. Love the channel, as well as Ben's too, big fan.
scriers is pronounced like cry... scry is to use divination to discover hidden knowledge or future events, especially by means of a crystal ball. Scriers are ones that do this.
You Still get 100% for great story telling!!
Since you covered the Clone Saga and Spider-Island are you going to go over Scarlet Spider (Kaine) and Dead No More: The Clone Conspiracy?
Also during the course of this saga Peter had lost his powers at one point but regained then during the last 3 or 4 chapters when Osborne came back.
Surprised panels like peter Parker losing his child is just forgotten and never brought up yet people complain about hydra captain America just let that sink in
16:19 You stand no chance against my GAINZ, SPIDER-MAN!
Just Some Guy with a Mustache i mean he does have man tits. No man can stand a chance against those
Just Some Guy with a Mustache *You again. I challenge thee to a duel!*
Your the best Rob!
This is REALLY screwing with my childhood... I thought this story was amazing when I was a kid but now it's really garbage... anyways...
I think this is part and partial to the enthusiasm of the story teller, Rob... when I watch your videos on DC comics, you're seriously hyped to tell us about them, it's really great but, your enthusiasm for Marvel is starting to wane! This all started as Marvel Explained and although you're doing that, man... I'm losing my luster for Marvel Comics! I know there are some dope stories out there, c'mon Rob... give the core your best man!!!
I remember when I read this and I liked that Ben Reilly was taking over and I got pissed when they just back peddled
Didn't marvel release a remastered/redone Clone Saga a few years ago? It was done by the same writing team and came up before Scarlet Spider. Did it retcon anything?
You mean The Clone Conspiracy? It was all about Ben Reilly becoming evil suddenly and cloning everyone Peter ever met. It was kinda average.
I really hated the ending for this story it was really bad and a complete slap in the face for people who wanted for peter parker and mary jane to have there baby mayday parker aka spider-girl could have been born in this main universe
Tevya Smolka Norman should've stayed dead
agreed Norman osborn should have stayed dead a long time ago
Tevya Smolka and they brought Ben back and now he's is a bad guy.......ugh.....
They turned him into a Lex Luthor/Hush hybrid. So weird. Unlike the common inquiry, Norman isn't or a criminal mastermind, a criminal mastermind would torture Peter with his secret but instead, he attacked and threw the guy's GF off a bridge because he didn't like how he got rid of his memories. A Criminal mastermind wouldn't give his secret identity to the Crimemaster. A Criminal Mastermind is like The Kingpin.
ItsMichaelReid Actually it was revealed in Untold Tales of Spider-Man that he never revealed his identity to the Crimemaster, he use a mask of JJ under his Goblin mask. Not mentioning that this idea of Norman being the most closest personification of evil in Spider-Man was concept sold for a long time after his death. He did tormented Peter with his secret back in the day thought, alhought for the time of that era (the 70s) some things were ridiculous.
Finally I understand the nightmare of the clone saga. Now I just gotta figure out how Ben & Kaine come back to life
hey Rob, could you do the ultimate clone saga? one of my favorite arcs in the ultimate spider-man. Bendis did a great job
If I remember correctly, the clone saga was what caused me to stop collecting not just Spider-Man comics, but all Marvel comics.
Dope shit dude as usual.
I remember originally the baby wasn't actually still born the dr worked for Norman and was raised away from them as a plot hole that got lost but also kinda tied to mayday spidergirl m2 books that they eventually got her back clone saga was a mess but not as awful as sins past
Great video!
Insane Genis vell vs Death seed sentry, Who do you guys think would win?
nice up for 3 sec!? so many refreshes today paid off
Marty M congratulations you're first
The fans were dopes.... Ben Reilly would have been fine and Peter's marriage would still exists.
@Jeremiah Ayeni :/ And that's why there is a big issue. I mean don't we all want Peter to be happy in the end and it doesn't matter who is behind the mask?
@Jeremiah Ayeni Not really a replacement but Peter's end was marriage and a family. Why rehash the same ... but in different ways? Plus the way they got them unmarriage was horrid.
The story was very interesting in my opinion, just poorly executed.
i vaguely remember reading the clone saga as an 11-year-old boy and being totally traumatized by it lol
I liked clone saga and I really liked Ben Reilly... in fact it's been hinted at time and again that he will return at some point... It's Spider-girl #1/2 it hints that he's still alive in that alternate future... So even though his body broke down Marvel can still bring him back... and here's how... It turns out the Ben Reilly that was killed by Green Goblin was in fact just one of the clones. But not just any clone... a clone of a clone... The clone of Ben Reilly which is why his body broke down upon death. He had all of Ben's memories etc... So he was Ben Reilly but yet he wasn't. This is how The Jackel becomes a major player once again. The Jackel cloned Ben Reilly immediately after his battle with Green Goblin. The Jackel then put the real Ben Reilly in stasis and let the clone essentially become Ben for the short time that he would, not knowing that the clone would save Peter and get impaled by the Goblin Glider. Jackel and Norman always knew that Norman would have his glider impale Peter, Then with Peter dead they knew that Ben would take over as Spider-man again and having the original Ben still around would be a way to truly screw with the character and the fans... but Ben (the clone) ended up sacrificing his life for Peter's. Which now changes their plans slightly. With all of the different retcons and alterations etc. the After Math of Secret Empire would be the PERFECT time to reveal this. Just my thoughts.
this is, oddly, better to listen to on long bike rides than music
I always long suspected that The Spider-Clone Saga was just Marvel's way of ret-conning the work of Todd McFarlane out of continuity. The story arc erases the stories laid out right after KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT... which is the EXACT starting point of McFarlane's run on The Amazing Spider-Man!
@Alan Doane I don't know about that. He brought Peter Parker into the adult world to keep him relatable to his adult fans. And he gave us Venom. McFarlane's run on Amazing Spider Man out sold Spider-Man sales from the 60's. That's why Marvel gave him free reign to start his own Spider-man title. But Marvel went corporate and the new boss drove away Marvel's top talents. That's why they left to form IMAGE COMICS. And Image out sold Marvel in it's first year! So Marvel started making tons of short-lived titles and variant covers, just to squeeze the indy comics off of the shelves.
I guess you are not going to touch on Aunt May's death, which was retconned by Byrne
rob i love the vids man can u do the ultimate marvel universe i know everything there is to know about 616
20:46 HEY ROB GREAT VIDEO LIKE ALWAYS, BTW BEN DIE LIKE THOSE ALIENS IN THE 1988-1990 TV SERIES WAR OF THE WORLDS
Rob, there was a spiderman story that came a little bit after clone saga wrapped up. I was just at the age when i was starting to buy comics and it was only at like 7/11 so it wasnt like they had back issues and ive always wanted to know what this one was about. Im not sure of the whole arc but i remember shock vs shock in spiderman. I have no idea what was going on there but ive always had that question nagging me when i think back on spiderman. If you know anything about this arc please do a video or put up a post with a quick explanation.
There should be a video on Ben Reilly as Spider-Carnage
thanks cause Lost track comics after the first secret wars,then started back around red hulk series,yo that was a long time out of it!lol
you need to do a video on the origins of the hobgoblin
So confrontation with Jackal, Spidercide and all other clones wasn't important to cover?
I loved this conclusion when I was a kid :D
Later on it turns out that norman was behind his aunt dying. He kidnapped her and replaced her with an actor that died. As for his child, I read that comic and it really really heavily implies that the child was either purposefully killed or kidnapped (left somewhat vague for future writers).
great job!
now can you explain the ANAD jackel story?
The Teen Titans were the predecessors of Spider-Man? I really think you have to do a bit of basic research on this. The first appearance of Spider-Man was a year or two before that of the Teen Titans, and they didn't really even become a group anyone paid attention to until the early 80s.
Ok Rob... Why the hell did you skip the entire trial? With carnage and all of this. Also the spidercid? You can't just show us another spiderman and tell: "this is just another part of clone saga". I know you've talked about it but those explanations are just not enough! I know he entire story and I think this is not the exaples the fans are willing to skip!
Rob, I would dig a little more info perhaps a series on the kaine spiderman.
The cool thing is, what ended up happening was, The clone saga is the best thing coming out of DC Rebirth right now
Found this on CBR.com...."After some time had passed and he had received some hints that perhaps his baby had not died after all, Peter discovered that Osborn did have “May” in his custody, so Peter quickly rushed to go save his baby. He fought through a series of obstacles before finally getting to the room where “May” was being held in “Peter Parker: Spider-Man” #97 (by Howard Mackie, John Romita Jr. and Scott Hanna) and discovered that the May being held was not his daughter (who actually was stillborn) but Aunt May!"
Great video, but here's a thought. If all clones break down to a soupy mess when they die, wouldn't that mean that the body that was tossed into the smokestack was 'not' a clone... Given that the body was still there to be found later, it was after all a skeleton with the Spiderman costume on right? I guess we can chop it up to being a plot hole, or we can face the fact that this current Spiderman is indeed a clone as well lol
Anyone else curious how different Spider-man would be today if they decided to make Ben take the mantle while Peter gets to go on and make a family?
Loved this story
I have read and re-read the storyline leading to Norman's return well over a dozen times. Not once did I ever read it as the baby being still born. Norman is handed the baby when he is revealed. The baby is alive and I have always held out hope it is the loose string that can undo "the spell"
Even busy mad scientist must find a time for McDonald's xD
what about the may day spider-girl story?
Some of the stuff about Norman's return was retconned recently by Nick Spencer. Most of it is still true though.
Also you left about the part about Gaunt. Which, sure wasn't important, but was kinda cool because he ties into Norman's origin story.
Rob, I meant to say well done on working through the mess of this story.
Review the Gathering of the Five.
Thanks for the clone saga bruh👍
If clones break down into dust when they die, who was it that was found in the smokestack? Also are you going to cover Maximum Carnage?
Im curious. Are you going to finish superior spiderman? I hated that comic so much but the final issue floored me and it turned out to be one of my favorite titles.
Okay since we're on the topic of good ideas leading to absolute shit storms, can you cover the Dark Knight Returns saga (Dark Knight Returns, Strikes Again and Master Race)?
TEVINRBEEZY When did Master Race come out?
Bravo Alley It started in November 2015 and just ended this month
Woah! They didn't kill off the Parker baby. Osborne had the baby essentially switched and put the child with some evil Nanny. It's been a while since I read the original story. But I remember Kaine tracking the baby down in the end of the Clone Saga. But then they all disappear from comics until Kaine returns years later. And no mention is made at all of it.
I remember reading this trade when I was in middle school
Not one of my favorite stories but it did raise G Goblin to another level
Green Lantern HG they glorified evil
I have that Osborn diaries comic, its really good. that why I like the clone saga. and Kaine
redblackkaine 2099 The Diaries was just the clean up crew for the disaster that was The Clone Saga. It tried so hard to make Norman's comeback make sense.
ItsMichaelReid if you read the issue before reading the clone saga you'll love it and appreciate it more than if you read the clone saga first. that's what I did and I appreciate the issue, and it works as just the life of Norman in all the years he was gone almost perfectly. thank you for replying.
"Norman is not responsible for the death of Aunt May...Norman is not responsible for the death of his daughter".
Yes he was.
He totally was.
"Aunt May" was an actress that he hired after he kidnapped the real May, then he poisoned the actress and she went to her grave playing the role (this was a retcon and yes, it's just as insane as it sounds)
The baby died stillborn because Osborn had Mary-Jane poisoned for the express purpose of killing that baby. There was even a fan theory for years that his agent had actually abducted said baby but it is now generally accepted that she is gone (this happens in THAT EXACT STORY YOU ARE REVIEWING; Peter doesn't know that his daughter is dead yet when he is fighting Norman Osborn)