I don't know much about No. 1s, but it would be hard to believe the sling attachment band could be tightened enough to constrict the barrel. Tom, you've probably already thought of this, but I would think it more likely some kind of anomaly (pitting, copper buildup, rifling gouged up in the process of cutting, etc.) would cause the tightness you experienced. And that maybe you should scope the bore (I'd be surprised if you haven't already done this).
Hi Tom my name is Simon from Australia. As I’m sure you know, as a former British colony, we love our .303’s. I have owned a 1950 Longbranch for 10 years and have shot many targets and animals with it, it loves .310 projectiles specifically Core Lokts and PowerPoints. I just bought the same Ruger No 1a as you, although mine is in excellent condition it didn’t come out of a box like yours! I shall endeavour to give you feedback on my shooting experiences with the Ruger No1a 303, but thank you for doing so much of the work! Gotta say I woulda been happy with your IMR 4064 groups with the Speer 150’s in your earlier video. Just for info our Woodleigh brand .303 projectiles here in Australia are .312. Also I think your North American load data’s are extremely conservative, even for Enfield .303’s, our equivalent IMR 4064 is ADI AR2208, you can google the ADI website for some extra info if you like. Thanks again for your excellent videos!
So a couple of things here I want address. As a fan boy of single shot rifles I have to point out one inherent issue with the Ruger #1. That issue is the harmonics of the barrel due to the way the fore end are attached. In fact the are a handful of gunsmiths who specialize in correcting this issue. Next bore to bullet diameter issues is nothing new to the 303 British in general. For those of us old-timers of the hand loading world have dealt with for years. Now many have went with casting there own bullets. It works for targets, but shorts it in hunting effectiveness. The other solution we discovered is far more simple, yet hard for me to make people understand in my poor ability of clearly written word. But if you wish I will try my best to come back and elaborate, or do a video of my own addressing the subject. Mountain man
It's worth checking out Randy Selby's comments on the Ruger #1 forend and hanger design, and how he gets these rifles to shoot well by stabilizing the hanger with a rounded screw and thereby free floating the rest of the barrel. Seems like an easy alteration and well worth a try!
The constriction due to the barrel band is probably exacerbating the problem. You may have to lap that portion to the same diameter as the rest of the barrel for uniformity.
Having your slug fetch up partway down could very well be your issue with that gun. If you slugged it down just a couple of inches, before the tight spot, pushed it out from the breech end then measured that, theoretically you would have two different measurements with the barrel slightly increasing in diameter on the muzzle end of the restriction. I would think that would cause accuracy and pressure issues as well with an increase in gas bypassing the bullet outboard of the restriction. I have a 30-06 that I loaned my brother-in-law and he kept it behind the seat in his pickup for about a year. At some point before I got it back a small mud dauber got in the end of the barrel and built a nest. I found it and cleaned it out before I shot it but you could see erosion down about 3 inches from the end and the accuracy with the same loads went from a 1 moa rifle to a 3 moa rifle with the same load and the deviation was all over the place like the bullets! Anyway, great series and I look forward to your next installment!
Interesting series. Great channel! It seems this may be a Ruger problem!?! The .314" bore diameter measurement is only for the tight spot, with the remainder being (variously?) larger. Suggest slugging from the breach, reversing before the known tight spot and carefully feeling for any others. What then? Lapping or a rebarrel? Warranty replacement? It may be that dimensions are already too large for commercially available projectiles.?. Certainly, that barrel band did no favors for that elegant 1-A barrel! We await your next installment in this saga. Great channel!
Hi Tom, Simon from Oz again. Just had my 3rd range trip with the Ruger No1, after some pretty demoralising results I epoxy bedded the hanger and free floated the barrel (I’m not a collector) I tried many hand loads today and I shot a 1.020” 3 shot group at 100m in pretty windy conditions with 44.00gns of ADI AR2208 with Hornady Interlocks at .312” i went all the way up to 45.00gns to test for pressure and I never saw any signs so 44.00gn should be really safe, (yes it is above published) my rifle definitely seems load sensitive. As you have mentioned the rifle is “snappy” when running warm loads, at more than a 44.00gn load it was very uncomfortable on the bench. I only use a front bag, no rear rest or lead sled. Thanks for the great channel!!!
You could try an even faster powder than 4064, 4895 or even 3031, to obturate your bullet base to the bore sufficiently, or increase your neck tension/crimp. It could be also that heavier bullets with longer bearing surface might be what you need. Good luck on your quest.
To cause the bullet to expand out into the rifling 'properly', I've been convinced a faster powder is better. According to the SIERRA loading manual, IMR 3031, H4895 and a couple other current powders are faster burning (based on the maximum velocities verses the powder charge). That sounds reasonable to address the problem of filling the barrel. I would have to endorse zipp6808's suggestion of examining the constriction point. If the bullet is constricted at any point, it will NOT expand to fit the grooves. I have a .303 British chambered Ruger No 1. Initial trials indicated IMR 4350 (which is a relatively slow powder) gave rather consistent velocities. This was using the 174 grain Hornady 3130 type bullet. I'll have to shoot that rifle a bit more - I've been working on other stuff - and see if I get results worthy of mention. I will add I like your channel, finding it quite illuminating and reasonable. Very few seem to show actual information.
The comment discussed in this video and the issues revealed in this video are the reasons 303 British was never a popular chambering in the US from what I understand. I sold firearms for a while and some very nice rifles passed through the shop in 303 British. No one wanted them even for the collector's value of the firearm. It was the only situation where I witnessed the shop take a loss on collectors grade/high grade firearms just to get those rifles off the books. Sad but true....
Funny enough the countries that made up the British Empire that actually used the Lee Enfield series do not agree with you about the.303 . The fact that Ruger, a secondary manufacturer, was apparently incapable of making good .303 barrels, is nothing to do with the competence of the round.
My previous Ruger #1 in .300 win mag would do about 1.5 at 100 yards, (26 in medium Sporter with barrel band). but I chalked most of that up to flinch factor from it being abusive toward me, being a skinny runt who likes big calibers.. Also the trigger was standard and probably on the heavy side. "Frontier Western Heritage" channel--- He had two different calibers, Winchester and browning, 38.55 was having chronic accuracy problems. Said he got 8-10 inches down the barrel and the slug just dropped. Same he said with his .45-70 Browning. He Had no similar problems with Uberti .44-40
Tom, Ruger wants to sell their rifles in European (GB included) countries too, where their barrels have to undergo official proof by a proofhouse. So their barrels have to conform to CIP minimum dimensions for .303 British barrels. The CIP dimensions are: minimum bore 7.70mm = .303", minimum groove 7.98mm = .314". If a .303 British marked and chambered barrel, even a custom one, does not meet these minimum diameters it will be rejected by the proofhouse, be it Liege, Suhl, Ferlach or London, and be sent back to the maker. BTW, the maximum bullet diameter is 7.92mm = .312". This loose fit, by todays standards, between minimum groove and maximum bullet diameter is a common problem not only with the .303, but with many others of the early smokeless miltary cartridges, f.i. the 6.5x53R Mannlicher, 6.5x54 M-Sch. At the time the dimensions were set, bullets were long and heavy with thin jackets, smokeless rifle powders were relatively fast burning. To keep pressures at bay, cartridge/ barrel designers often depended on the long, round nose bullets to slug up on firing. My own number 1 in 303 British that I’ve had and have hunted with since it was first released in 2010, is load sensitive. The best accuracy was with a Woodleigh 215 grain RNSP bullet (.312”) propelled by a max charge of Varget powder. This bullet uses a soft copper jacket and bonded soft lead core which “bumps up” on firing. My standard hunting load for this rifle uses the Hornady 174 grain RNSP propelled to 2400 fps using Varget powder.
Ruger makes some great guns but the number #1 can be very hard to get them to group without handloaded ammo! Still love the gun and one of Bill’s best guns designed!
Tom so glad to see the gun videos back i missed them terribly. I love guns and i love shooting guns but until i whatched your videos i never really got to indepth with them. Now after seeing your videos i have bought a cronograph to check my velocity on my guns and might finally order the turret caps for my leupold scopes. I agree with some of the other commenter that the barrel band might be your issue it makes since. One last thing you said in the video you would leave a link for the guy you suggested but i can't find it.
Will, I just added the link and thanks for letting me know it wasn't there! And I'm glad you're going a little deeper into setting up your guns. I think that really adds to our enjoyment of shooting and makes us better marksmen and hunters.
I have a Ruger No. 1 in 375 H&H. Beautiful rifle but crazy making. Once I found a load that was reasonably accurate and within acceptable velocity range I just stopped. The Ruger No. 1 will break your heart.
Interesting but I don’t know about all this. Your 303 shot significantly better on the lead sled. Also Ruger #1s are famous for vertical stringing from the hanger/fore-end setup. I’d focus on holding that rifle when you shoot it, either down on the scope or actually hold onto it like when you shoot offhand. Or just use the sled although I know you think it might somehow cause some damage. This and float the rifle fore-end which has been required on all 3 of the #1s I’ve owned. Just seems like those fundamentals aren’t in place yet.
Your rifle is .3145 at the tightest point. Probably under the sling swivel. The rest is .315 or .315+. Hawk bullets makes a 150 grain .316 diameter bullet. Problem there is once any bullet passes your swing swivel it is going to be .3145. Fire lap that barrel and get rid of the tight spot. Then use the Hawk .316. If you decide to do this you better check your chamber throat diameter to insure it can release a .316 with factory brass.
The bullet deformation under pressure is crucial to rifle accuracy. I can give you case and point. I have a 45-110 that shoots a bore diameter paper patched bullet. The lead alloy is critical to accuracy. Too hard of a bullet and the bullet will not deform enough to grip the rifling and the accuracy goes to hell. So much so that the 545 grain bullets will key hole at 100 yards. So my suggestion would be to use a very heavy bullet that will still stabilize at your velocity. 170 to 180 grain gas checked and sized to .315” A heavy bullet in a hard alloy gas checked to .315 should work quite well. If you can find some large diameter jacketed bullets that would be best. And despite what some may claim you can resize a jacketed bullet.
No if you want accuracy that Ruger barrel is knackered ,and 303 does have 311 grouve depth and 303 bore . Medford rifling was rounded on the edges , Enfield rifling has squared off edges . Down here in Australia the no1 rugger is expensive but notorious bad grouper . You could get a correct sized bore barrel and have a good shooter or get a custom gass checked bullet mould made and shoot over sized projectiles .
You're welcome Sir! Glad I could help. When I loaded .303, I used RL15. Being a double base, as is cordite, I got wonderful accuracy from my No4Mk2 with .311 and .312 bullets. I duplicated the old Mk7 load velocity of 2440 fps For " Emmagees" ( machine guns) the Brits used the Mk7Z load which was single base to avoid the extreme erosion found with cordite. The Mk7 bullet was an open based fmj which also helped obdurate the bullet.
I’ve seen slight bore diameter differences between British and Indian pattern Lee Enfield's. Indian pattern seems to be slightly larger however that’s only on the rifles I have it may not be the case on every rifle.
I'd be willing to bet that 303 will shoot cast with much better ability to fit a bullet 1 or 2 thou over groove diameter. You'll struggle to get a factory jacketed bullet fat enough that shoots well. Of course thats a whole other rabbit hole to go down. Best wishes at getting your project to a point you are happy with it. You seem committed to getting done so I'm sure you'll get there.
Been my experience that my personal guns including my #1 in 300 win mag shoot better with a leaded barrel , the groups improve after running 20 or more rounds . I appreciate your patience with the one your working with ! its a beauty , hopefully you can get a round under 2 inches at a 100 and enjoy hunting with it !
I remember seeing information about a chelian mauser i have, apparently back then, in Europe they had a different way of measuring their rifles. I don't remember exactly but it's different than today.
Tom, since you are reloading as is try shooting hard cast lead bullets. I have been shooting bullets from Montana Bullet Works, they have a 195G .303 British custom sized .313, .314, .315. they are coated and have a copper gas check. Perhaps not a perfect hunting round but shooting a handful at the range could answer some questions. I can't recommend load data but Monta Bullet supply might help. I am shooting lightweight .303 in a SKS that has a .313 bore, the larger dia, does help accuracy.
the standard military projectile is 174 grains at .312 or 5/16 diameter not .311 both should work in your barrel but I think that barrel band constriction is giving you a wrong diameter I would do another slug but do not go passed that constriction. I think you will find the diameter much larger so send that rifle back to be re- barrelled.
You need real soft jacketed bullets. I have some .311 supersoft 180 gr yellow color I call them bananna bullets they are intended to flatten out easily.
When you slugged your barrel and you had a tight spot, That is the culprit! You can't have a spot that shrinks the bullet and then opens up while the bullet is supposed to be guided till it leaves the crown. That's why it is so detrimental to screw up the crown, the last thing to touch the bullet before it's on it's own. In your case the bullet is loose in the barrel from the tight spot till the end. Essentially the tight spot is the end, the crown, of the barrel and the rest of the barrel is there to screw up the accuracy. The bullet probably isn't going to obturate any more, that far down the barrel. I'm surprised it's not keyholing. Just my thoughts and I'm nobody.
Have you looked at the distance between the case mouth to point where the rifling engages the bullet? My #1 International in 7x57 has a very long chamber, and until I started seating bullets further out, to minimize the jump to the rifling, I couldn't get an acceptable size group either. Since both the 303 British and the 7x57 were originally loaded with long heavy bullets, I'm guessing Ruger cuts their chambers (in these two calibers) long to accommodate any old heavy bullet loads that are still out there. Also, having to make that jump may explain your pressure losses. I don't use a chronograph, so that's just speculation on my part.
This might be a long shot. I would check the flash hole size on the brass to see if there the same size. I had a rifle chambered in 7.62x39 that had muzzle velocity that was all over the place with no reason.. Turns out the flash holes were not the same size, some were huge, some were small.. Hope this helps..
Iv found that No. 1's and alot of single shot rifles are bag sensitive , so bagging is a major variable, try bagging back closer to the frame to reduce barrel up pressure
the tight spot at the barrel band sounds to be the problem ,as improbable as it sounds maybe try removing it and re sl;ug ,the tube must have been consistent before the band was fitted ,also with enfields theres a lot of chamber length variation ,may be not with the ruger but i would do a chamber cast to see if chamber meets rifling ,i realise your after factory type ammo ,bein a tight ass ozzi a lot of us load hard cast w\w using gas checks ,only using 4198 or the ADi equivalent not really pushing above about 2200fps sized to ,314 \ .315, the larger lead seems to keep the fps up using the slower powder i have a lee die,314 drops about ,315 my enfields all vary on the chamber throat length ,shells are kept for each seperate rifle
It would be interesting to see what heavy cast bullets might do regards accuracy. IMR 4895 and cast lead bullets works accurately for my .303. Maybe, just maybe the barrel needs a good barrel doctor's assessment as to what might work best.
That’s good Tom. Thanks. But what if the bore (lands) are narrower in the middle, like at the sling band and wider at the muzzle? Is that not a loose fit, causing accuracy issues? Good video
Hello Tom. Great video as usual. I have a question. Last week you mentioned the rifle barrel expands outward when it heats up. If your scope mounts are attached to the barrel will it change your scope settings due to the barrel expanding? It seems to me that would possibly raise the scope cross hairs as the barrel expands.
That rifle needs to go back to Ruger for a replacement barrel. That level of innaccuracy is unacceptable for a rifle that costs as much as those #1's do. That rifle should shoot at least 1 inch groups at 100 yards all day with quality ammo.
Your detective work explains SOME of the problems you are experiencing, but No. 1's are notorious for being difficult to make accurate because of the forend hanger design.
I don't think bullet obturation really works as well with smokeless powder as black powder. For one in black powder they were using lead not copper jackets. And black powder is a explosive smokeless is a propellant. You won't get the same hard knock for obturation. I really don't think you're ever going to see great accuracy out of that barrel until you lapp it and find the correct bullet diameter for it. If it were me I think I'd either cast bullets and paper patch them or make a swagging die to take a .323 dia. Bullet down to .317 but going more than .006 in sizing is not very good for a jacketed bullet. The easiest thing would be to re barrel it for .312 bullets or sell it. And get one in 30.06 or 7x57. IMHO
Interesting, I have a 1955 No. 4 Mk2, obviously post war. I purchased it unfired... I load Hornady 0.312" 174Gr Match, or Sierra MatchKings also 174Gr. I use BL(C)2, which IIRC was the powder used in the Mk7 loadings. I use 43 grains, for about 2500fps, very close to the service load. YMMV. Velocities over the chrono were very much identical, maybe +/-12fps. With the original irons, and using a Lead Sled, I can easily achieve 1.5" groups at 100 yds. You may want to give BL(C)2 a try. Now I must slug my barrel, there's no need, I'm just curious! Nice, thorough investigation. Thanks! P.S. For the Ruger, try cast 220 grain lead? That will obturate easily, and the velocities should reduce chance of leading.
Sounds like the 4064, being a faster powder, is giving you the minimum shot start pressure to sufficiently obturate the bullet. Are there jacketed bullets with thinner jackets that might perform better? Just spitballing. This is reminiscent of cannon gunnery troubleshooting class at Ft Sill.
I have a question for you . If gas is escaping around the bullet, shouldn’t that lead to heavy copper fouling? A look through the bore scope would be interesting.
Hi Tom. Great video cheers! I've shot 303s for donkeys years both factory and reloads. Best results have been hand loads using the Hornady 150gr .312 . Tried Sierra MKs .311. They were terrible in my mint No4 Longbranch, chopped SMLE with a Westley Richards bbl, Parker Hale No4. None of them shot them well. I have shot cast 314s but didn't play around with the load enough to get any great results, they were ok 👍. Here in NZ for decades the 303 was like the 30/06 for you guys. They were chopped and shot and certainly did the trick! Around 2" groups are generally the best I can manage anyways. Good luck with the Ruger 👍
I would have been curious about the diameter of the Parker Hale Sporter. How did it work out after correcting the scope mount? I’ve got an old 1917 Enfield in .30-06 that gives good accuracy with .303 / .311 flat base bullets, and it slugs .311 dia. My Lee Enfield No1 Mk3 will also shoot inside 3 inches with the same bullets, and its military iron sights-good enough for all practical purposes!
Why did the lead slug get tight in the bore when it got down to where the sling stud was clamped around the barrel is it possible that that clamp is causing enough pressure to deform the inside dimension of the bore?
That's quite a bit of work to get that rifle to shoot well when I know you have other rifles that will do the same trick with less hassle. It must have sentimental value to you.
If the bore is constricted part way down it, wouldn't that create a potential for poor accuracy as the bullet is gets compressed smaller than the rest of the bore?
So are you stuck with shooting cast bullets now do they even make a jacketed bullet in .314? I would think you would be pushing the pressures limitations to try to get a .312 bullet to squash that much maybe its just going to be a 2" inch group gun?
Whatever the problems are with Ruger barrels (real, but usually adequate for fun & hunting), the Number 1 can have challenges with forend/hanger/ barrel contact/ other. You are judging this No. 1 Ruger with other rifles shooting for small group. Like bolt actions. Even among bolt actions there can be wide variation in group consistency. You picked one of the toughest model guns to assume it can shoot small groups with even hand loads. You’re beyond your level of knowledge and expectations. Slugging the bore/ rifling will do nothing to improve group size. It will only give you one indication of barrel. Nothing changes, nothing improves. Take it to a licensed (FFL 01) professional full time Gunsmith and pay him to rebarrel the No.1 with a good quality barrel, machined, fit & installed correctly and then pay him or her to resolve the No.1 forearm issue. No barrel flutes, no fancy stuff on muzzle end, no exotic nothing. Just a properly machined, chambered, fit & installed quality barrel. Also pay Gunsmith to make a scope base that extends back over the receiver for proper scope mounting. The new barrel & forend are the key. Stop playing around trying to get that factory stock No.1 a bench rest rifle. You won’t with that particular barrel on it . If you have a factory No.1 .303 that is tack driver; good for you. But this barrel obviously throws them. Pay Gunsmith to rebarrel it . Advice from Gunsmith.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
I've got to give u props for being so patient with a rifle that may or may not shoot as good as you want
I don't know much about No. 1s, but it would be hard to believe the sling attachment band could be tightened enough to constrict the barrel. Tom, you've probably already thought of this, but I would think it more likely some kind of anomaly (pitting, copper buildup, rifling gouged up in the process of cutting, etc.) would cause the tightness you experienced. And that maybe you should scope the bore (I'd be surprised if you haven't already done this).
Hi Tom my name is Simon from Australia. As I’m sure you know, as a former British colony, we love our .303’s. I have owned a 1950 Longbranch for 10 years and have shot many targets and animals with it, it loves .310 projectiles specifically Core Lokts and PowerPoints. I just bought the same Ruger No 1a as you, although mine is in excellent condition it didn’t come out of a box like yours! I shall endeavour to give you feedback on my shooting experiences with the Ruger No1a 303, but thank you for doing so much of the work! Gotta say I woulda been happy with your IMR 4064 groups with the Speer 150’s in your earlier video. Just for info our Woodleigh brand .303 projectiles here in Australia are .312. Also I think your North American load data’s are extremely conservative, even for Enfield .303’s, our equivalent IMR 4064 is ADI AR2208, you can google the ADI website for some extra info if you like. Thanks again for your excellent videos!
Tom, I hope you are well and that you haven't given up on the rifle. Even the ones we can't completely sort out will teach us something.
Tom, we miss you.
Greetings from a loyal German follower
So a couple of things here I want address. As a fan boy of single shot rifles I have to point out one inherent issue with the Ruger #1. That issue is the harmonics of the barrel due to the way the fore end are attached. In fact the are a handful of gunsmiths who specialize in correcting this issue. Next bore to bullet diameter issues is nothing new to the 303 British in general. For those of us old-timers of the hand loading world have dealt with for years. Now many have went with casting there own bullets. It works for targets, but shorts it in hunting effectiveness. The other solution we discovered is far more simple, yet hard for me to make people understand in my poor ability of clearly written word. But if you wish I will try my best to come back and elaborate, or do a video of my own addressing the subject.
Mountain man
It's worth checking out Randy Selby's comments on the Ruger #1 forend and hanger design, and how he gets these rifles to shoot well by stabilizing the hanger with a rounded screw and thereby free floating the rest of the barrel. Seems like an easy alteration and well worth a try!
The constriction due to the barrel band is probably exacerbating the problem. You may have to lap that portion to the same diameter as the rest of the barrel for uniformity.
No
That's what I was thinking is the constriction at the barrel band has got to be causing an issue.
Having your slug fetch up partway down could very well be your issue with that gun. If you slugged it down just a couple of inches, before the tight spot, pushed it out from the breech end then measured that, theoretically you would have two different measurements with the barrel slightly increasing in diameter on the muzzle end of the restriction. I would think that would cause accuracy and pressure issues as well with an increase in gas bypassing the bullet outboard of the restriction.
I have a 30-06 that I loaned my brother-in-law and he kept it behind the seat in his pickup for about a year. At some point before I got it back a small mud dauber got in the end of the barrel and built a nest. I found it and cleaned it out before I shot it but you could see erosion down about 3 inches from the end and the accuracy with the same loads went from a 1 moa rifle to a 3 moa rifle with the same load and the deviation was all over the place like the bullets! Anyway, great series and I look forward to your next installment!
Damn brothers-in-law! 😊
I'll never buy one ruger 1,but in saying that, I've learn alot watching you.
Interesting series. Great channel!
It seems this may be a Ruger problem!?! The .314" bore diameter measurement is only for the tight spot, with the remainder being (variously?) larger. Suggest slugging from the breach, reversing before the known tight spot and carefully feeling for any others.
What then? Lapping or a rebarrel? Warranty replacement? It may be that dimensions are already too large for commercially available projectiles.?. Certainly, that barrel band did no favors for that elegant 1-A barrel!
We await your next installment in this saga. Great channel!
Hi Tom, Simon from Oz again. Just had my 3rd range trip with the Ruger No1, after some pretty demoralising results I epoxy bedded the hanger and free floated the barrel (I’m not a collector) I tried many hand loads today and I shot a 1.020” 3 shot group at 100m in pretty windy conditions with 44.00gns of ADI AR2208 with Hornady Interlocks at .312” i went all the way up to 45.00gns to test for pressure and I never saw any signs so 44.00gn should be really safe, (yes it is above published) my rifle definitely seems load sensitive. As you have mentioned the rifle is “snappy” when running warm loads, at more than a 44.00gn load it was very uncomfortable on the bench. I only use a front bag, no rear rest or lead sled. Thanks for the great channel!!!
Tom has taught me a lot on his channel and answered a lot of questions I had wondered about I love his channel for these reasons.
You could try an even faster powder than 4064, 4895 or even 3031, to obturate your bullet base to the bore sufficiently, or increase your neck tension/crimp. It could be also that heavier bullets with longer bearing surface might be what you need.
Good luck on your quest.
To cause the bullet to expand out into the rifling 'properly', I've been convinced a faster powder is better.
According to the SIERRA loading manual, IMR 3031, H4895 and a couple other current powders are faster burning (based on the maximum velocities verses the powder charge). That sounds reasonable to address the problem of filling the barrel.
I would have to endorse zipp6808's suggestion of examining the constriction point. If the bullet is constricted at any point, it will NOT expand to fit the grooves.
I have a .303 British chambered Ruger No 1. Initial trials indicated IMR 4350 (which is a relatively slow powder) gave rather consistent velocities. This was using the 174 grain Hornady 3130 type bullet.
I'll have to shoot that rifle a bit more - I've been working on other stuff - and see if I get results worthy of mention.
I will add I like your channel, finding it quite illuminating and reasonable. Very few seem to show actual information.
Tom you’ve shown more fortitude than I could muster attempting to correct a gun ready to drop off the nearest cliff lol
The comment discussed in this video and the issues revealed in this video are the reasons 303 British was never a popular chambering in the US from what I understand. I sold firearms for a while and some very nice rifles passed through the shop in 303 British. No one wanted them even for the collector's value of the firearm. It was the only situation where I witnessed the shop take a loss on collectors grade/high grade firearms just to get those rifles off the books. Sad but true....
Funny enough the countries that made up the British Empire that actually used the Lee Enfield series do not agree with you about the.303 . The fact that Ruger, a secondary manufacturer, was apparently incapable of making good .303 barrels, is nothing to do with the competence of the round.
My previous Ruger #1 in .300 win mag would do about 1.5 at 100 yards, (26 in medium Sporter with barrel band). but I chalked most of that up to flinch factor from it being abusive toward me, being a skinny runt who likes big calibers.. Also the trigger was standard and probably on the heavy side. "Frontier Western Heritage" channel--- He had two different calibers, Winchester and browning, 38.55 was having chronic accuracy problems. Said he got 8-10 inches down the barrel and the slug just dropped. Same he said with his .45-70 Browning. He Had no similar problems with Uberti .44-40
Tom,
Ruger wants to sell their rifles in European (GB included) countries too, where their barrels have to undergo official proof by a proofhouse. So their barrels have to conform to CIP minimum dimensions for .303 British barrels.
The CIP dimensions are: minimum bore 7.70mm = .303", minimum groove 7.98mm = .314". If a .303 British marked and chambered barrel, even a custom one, does not meet these minimum diameters it will be rejected by the proofhouse, be it Liege, Suhl, Ferlach or London, and be sent back to the maker.
BTW, the maximum bullet diameter is 7.92mm = .312".
This loose fit, by todays standards, between minimum groove and maximum bullet diameter is a common problem not only with the .303, but with many others of the early smokeless miltary cartridges, f.i. the 6.5x53R Mannlicher, 6.5x54 M-Sch. At the time the dimensions were set, bullets were long and heavy with thin jackets, smokeless rifle powders were relatively fast burning. To keep pressures at bay, cartridge/ barrel designers often depended on the long, round nose bullets to slug up on firing.
My own number 1 in 303 British that I’ve had and have hunted with since it was first released in 2010, is load sensitive.
The best accuracy was with a Woodleigh 215 grain RNSP bullet (.312”) propelled by a max charge of Varget powder. This bullet uses a soft copper jacket and bonded soft lead core which “bumps up” on firing.
My standard hunting load for this rifle uses the Hornady 174 grain RNSP propelled to 2400 fps using Varget powder.
Ruger makes some great guns but the number #1 can be very hard to get them to group without handloaded ammo! Still love the gun and one of Bill’s best guns designed!
I'd lap the tight spot where the barrel band is out, with a lead lap and 220 grip lapping compound. It may help her some.
Tom so glad to see the gun videos back i missed them terribly. I love guns and i love shooting guns but until i whatched your videos i never really got to indepth with them. Now after seeing your videos i have bought a cronograph to check my velocity on my guns and might finally order the turret caps for my leupold scopes. I agree with some of the other commenter that the barrel band might be your issue it makes since. One last thing you said in the video you would leave a link for the guy you suggested but i can't find it.
Will, I just added the link and thanks for letting me know it wasn't there!
And I'm glad you're going a little deeper into setting up your guns. I think that really adds to our enjoyment of shooting and makes us better marksmen and hunters.
I have a Ruger No. 1 in 375 H&H. Beautiful rifle but crazy making. Once I found a load that was reasonably accurate and within acceptable velocity range I just stopped. The Ruger No. 1 will break your heart.
Haha, that’s where I’m at with my No1 in 303, I’ve managed to get just under 1 moa @100yds for 3 shots.
Such a wonderful collection of firearms you have. Thank you for sharing it with us!
Interesting but I don’t know about all this. Your 303 shot significantly better on the lead sled. Also Ruger #1s are famous for vertical stringing from the hanger/fore-end setup. I’d focus on holding that rifle when you shoot it, either down on the scope or actually hold onto it like when you shoot offhand. Or just use the sled although I know you think it might somehow cause some damage. This and float the rifle fore-end which has been required on all 3 of the #1s I’ve owned. Just seems like those fundamentals aren’t in place yet.
Your rifle is .3145 at the tightest point. Probably under the sling swivel. The rest is .315 or .315+. Hawk bullets makes a 150 grain .316 diameter bullet. Problem there is once any bullet passes your swing swivel it is going to be .3145. Fire lap that barrel and get rid of the tight spot. Then use the Hawk .316. If you decide to do this you better check your chamber throat diameter to insure it can release a .316 with factory brass.
The bullet deformation under pressure is crucial to rifle accuracy. I can give you case and point.
I have a 45-110 that shoots a bore diameter paper patched bullet. The lead alloy is critical to accuracy. Too hard of a bullet and the bullet will not deform enough to grip the rifling and the accuracy goes to hell. So much so that the 545 grain bullets will key hole at 100 yards.
So my suggestion would be to use a very heavy bullet that will still stabilize at your velocity. 170 to 180 grain gas checked and sized to .315”
A heavy bullet in a hard alloy gas checked to .315 should work quite well.
If you can find some large diameter jacketed bullets that would be best. And despite what some may claim you can resize a jacketed bullet.
No if you want accuracy that Ruger barrel is knackered ,and 303 does have 311 grouve depth and 303 bore . Medford rifling was rounded on the edges , Enfield rifling has squared off edges . Down here in Australia the no1 rugger is expensive but notorious bad grouper . You could get a correct sized bore barrel and have a good shooter or get a custom gass checked bullet mould made and shoot over sized projectiles .
You're welcome Sir! Glad I could help.
When I loaded .303, I used RL15. Being a double base, as is cordite, I got wonderful accuracy from my No4Mk2 with .311 and .312 bullets. I duplicated the old Mk7 load velocity of 2440 fps
For " Emmagees" ( machine guns) the Brits used the Mk7Z load which was single base to avoid the extreme erosion found with cordite. The Mk7 bullet was an open based fmj which also helped obdurate the bullet.
Great video. I like IMR 4895 -- it always seems to work for me.
This is so, so interesting. Best place to get the low down truth. Thank you! Superb!
Sounds like it's time to look in there with a bore scope!
I’ve seen slight bore diameter differences between British and Indian pattern Lee Enfield's. Indian pattern seems to be slightly larger however that’s only on the rifles I have it may not be the case on every rifle.
I'd be willing to bet that 303 will shoot cast with much better ability to fit a bullet 1 or 2 thou over groove diameter. You'll struggle to get a factory jacketed bullet fat enough that shoots well. Of course thats a whole other rabbit hole to go down. Best wishes at getting your project to a point you are happy with it. You seem committed to getting done so I'm sure you'll get there.
Have several with Cordite. Interesting stuff. Still go bang!
Interesting results from the lead slug Tom, thanks again for your report.
Been looking forward to this episode. Ruger No. 1 is my favorite rifle and I am excited to see it get worked out!
Been my experience that my personal guns including my #1 in 300 win mag shoot better with a leaded barrel , the groups improve after running 20 or more rounds . I appreciate your patience with the one your working with ! its a beauty , hopefully you can get a round under 2 inches at a 100 and enjoy hunting with it !
I remember seeing information about a chelian mauser i have, apparently back then, in Europe they had a different way of measuring their rifles. I don't remember exactly but it's different than today.
back in the day Ruger farmed out their barrel production and had really inconsistent barrels, some rifles would not shoot no matter what you did
Tom, since you are reloading as is try shooting hard cast lead bullets. I have been shooting bullets from Montana Bullet Works, they have a 195G .303 British custom sized .313, .314, .315. they are coated and have a copper gas check. Perhaps not a perfect hunting round but shooting a handful at the range could answer some questions. I can't recommend load data but Monta Bullet supply might help. I am shooting lightweight .303 in a SKS that has a .313 bore, the larger dia, does help accuracy.
Good info Tom , thanks God bless and have a great time figuring out out the puzzle of the oddities of your rifle now
the standard military projectile is 174 grains at .312 or 5/16 diameter not .311 both should work in your barrel but I think that barrel band constriction is giving you a wrong diameter I would do another slug but do not go passed that constriction. I think you will find the diameter much larger so send that rifle back to be re- barrelled.
You need real soft jacketed bullets. I have some .311 supersoft 180 gr yellow color I call them bananna bullets they are intended to flatten out easily.
When you slugged your barrel and you had a tight spot, That is the culprit! You can't have a spot that shrinks the bullet and then opens up while the bullet is supposed to be guided till it leaves the crown. That's why it is so detrimental to screw up the crown, the last thing to touch the bullet before it's on it's own. In your case the bullet is loose in the barrel from the tight spot till the end. Essentially the tight spot is the end, the crown, of the barrel and the rest of the barrel is there to screw up the accuracy. The bullet probably isn't going to obturate any more, that far down the barrel. I'm surprised it's not keyholing. Just my thoughts and I'm nobody.
I have to admit, you have more patience than me. I think I would be moving on
Have you looked at the distance between the case mouth to point where the rifling engages the bullet? My #1 International in 7x57 has a very long chamber, and until I started seating bullets further out, to minimize the jump to the rifling, I couldn't get an acceptable size group either. Since both the 303 British and the 7x57 were originally loaded with long heavy bullets, I'm guessing Ruger cuts their chambers (in these two calibers) long to accommodate any old heavy bullet loads that are still out there. Also, having to make that jump may explain your pressure losses. I don't use a chronograph, so that's just speculation on my part.
Great information Tom. Love the mystery.
This might be a long shot. I would check the flash hole size on the brass to see if there the same size.
I had a rifle chambered in 7.62x39 that had muzzle velocity that was all over the place with no reason..
Turns out the flash holes were not the same size, some were huge, some were small..
Hope this helps..
Iv found that No. 1's and alot of single shot rifles are bag sensitive , so bagging is a major variable, try bagging back closer to the frame to reduce barrel up pressure
Sounds like you need to get casting for this rifle Tom ;)
Come to the dark side :D
the tight spot at the barrel band sounds to be the problem ,as improbable as it sounds maybe try removing it and re sl;ug ,the tube must have been consistent before the band was fitted ,also with enfields theres a lot of chamber length variation ,may be not with the ruger but i would do a chamber cast to see if chamber meets rifling ,i realise your after factory type ammo ,bein a tight ass ozzi a lot of us load hard cast w\w using gas checks ,only using 4198 or the ADi equivalent not really pushing above about 2200fps sized to ,314 \ .315, the larger lead seems to keep the fps up using the slower powder i have a lee die,314 drops about ,315 my enfields all vary on the chamber throat length ,shells are kept for each seperate rifle
Thanks Tom, interesting as always!
Some of the early cordite loads have a sealed overpowder wad,was this to help obturate the projectile.
Awesome video! I really learned quite a bit.
It would be interesting to see what heavy cast bullets might do regards accuracy. IMR 4895 and cast lead bullets works accurately for my .303. Maybe, just maybe the barrel needs a good barrel doctor's assessment as to what might work best.
That’s good Tom. Thanks. But what if the bore (lands) are narrower in the middle, like at the sling band and wider at the muzzle? Is that not a loose fit, causing accuracy issues?
Good video
Hello Tom. Great video as usual. I have a question. Last week you mentioned the rifle barrel expands outward when it heats up. If your scope mounts are attached to the barrel will it change your scope settings due to the barrel expanding? It seems to me that would possibly raise the scope cross hairs as the barrel expands.
Have you considered hammer bullets designed for 303 British that are supposed to work in loose bores as well as tight bores
That rifle needs to go back to Ruger for a replacement barrel. That level of innaccuracy is unacceptable for a rifle that costs as much as those #1's do. That rifle should shoot at least 1 inch groups at 100 yards all day with quality ammo.
Your detective work explains SOME of the problems you are experiencing, but No. 1's are notorious for being difficult to make accurate because of the forend hanger design.
I don't think bullet obturation really works as well with smokeless powder as black powder. For one in black powder they were using lead not copper jackets. And black powder is a explosive smokeless is a propellant. You won't get the same hard knock for obturation. I really don't think you're ever going to see great accuracy out of that barrel until you lapp it and find the correct bullet diameter for it. If it were me I think I'd either cast bullets and paper patch them or make a swagging die to take a .323 dia. Bullet down to .317 but going more than .006 in sizing is not very good for a jacketed bullet. The easiest thing would be to re barrel it for .312 bullets or sell it. And get one in 30.06 or 7x57. IMHO
Interesting, I have a 1955 No. 4 Mk2, obviously post war. I purchased it unfired... I load Hornady 0.312" 174Gr Match, or Sierra MatchKings also 174Gr.
I use BL(C)2, which IIRC was the powder used in the Mk7 loadings. I use 43 grains, for about 2500fps, very close to the service load. YMMV.
Velocities over the chrono were very much identical, maybe +/-12fps.
With the original irons, and using a Lead Sled, I can easily achieve 1.5" groups at 100 yds. You may want to give BL(C)2 a try.
Now I must slug my barrel, there's no need, I'm just curious! Nice, thorough investigation. Thanks!
P.S. For the Ruger, try cast 220 grain lead? That will obturate easily, and the velocities should reduce chance of leading.
Sounds like the 4064, being a faster powder, is giving you the minimum shot start pressure to sufficiently obturate the bullet. Are there jacketed bullets with thinner jackets that might perform better? Just spitballing. This is reminiscent of cannon gunnery troubleshooting class at Ft Sill.
Tom, I hope everything is OK with you.
It is Tod and thanks for your concern. I've just been busy drying in the addition on the new house.
I have a question for you . If gas is escaping around the bullet, shouldn’t that lead to heavy copper fouling? A look through the bore scope would be interesting.
Hawk bullets for the next step?
Hi Tom. Great video cheers! I've shot 303s for donkeys years both factory and reloads. Best results have been hand loads using the Hornady 150gr .312 . Tried Sierra MKs .311. They were terrible in my mint No4 Longbranch, chopped SMLE with a Westley Richards bbl, Parker Hale No4. None of them shot them well. I have shot cast 314s but didn't play around with the load enough to get any great results, they were ok 👍. Here in NZ for decades the 303 was like the 30/06 for you guys. They were chopped and shot and certainly did the trick! Around 2" groups are generally the best I can manage anyways. Good luck with the Ruger 👍
2" groups are the reason 303 never made it in the US. If it's not shooting under an MOA, most people won't keep the rifle.
@@tacticalmattfoley fair enough, but do people ditch their Garands and 30/30s? 🤔😉
I would have been curious about the diameter of the Parker Hale Sporter. How did it work out after correcting the scope mount?
I’ve got an old 1917 Enfield in .30-06 that gives good accuracy with .303 / .311 flat base bullets, and it slugs .311 dia. My Lee Enfield No1 Mk3 will also shoot inside 3 inches with the same bullets, and its military iron sights-good enough for all practical purposes!
9:20 Using Mitus, you will be fine :D
Why did the lead slug get tight in the bore when it got down to where the sling stud was clamped around the barrel is it possible that that clamp is causing enough pressure to deform the inside dimension of the bore?
That's quite a bit of work to get that rifle to shoot well when I know you have other rifles that will do the same trick with less hassle. It must have sentimental value to you.
So at this point you will probably have to either use oversized lead bullets or get a new barrel or rifle..correct?
If the bore is constricted part way down it, wouldn't that create a potential for poor accuracy as the bullet is gets compressed
smaller than the rest of the bore?
What if you use a faster powder to create more initial pressure?
So are you stuck with shooting cast bullets now do they even make a jacketed bullet in .314? I would think you would be pushing the pressures limitations to try to get a .312 bullet to squash that much maybe its just going to be a 2" inch group gun?
1885 Winchester all day #1's are very finicky..
is that tight spot going to cause irregular pressures?
Maybe more fouling will make up the difference
early 30 cal rugers had a 311 Grove diameter most inaccurate rifles I had the Displeasure of owning
Look like a Wallhanger to me, buy a different cal. 😊
Been hunting the Ruger 303 for a long while now. Check out my channel for 303 hunting Videos
You hand load anyway, ever thought of patching a smaller bullet? Muzzle loader comments got me thinking.
Whatever the problems are with Ruger barrels (real, but usually adequate for fun & hunting), the Number 1 can have challenges with forend/hanger/ barrel contact/ other. You are judging this No. 1 Ruger with other rifles shooting for small group. Like bolt actions. Even among bolt actions there can be wide variation in group consistency. You picked one of the toughest model guns to assume it can shoot small groups with even hand loads. You’re beyond your level of knowledge and expectations. Slugging the bore/ rifling will do nothing to improve group size. It will only give you one indication of barrel. Nothing changes, nothing improves. Take it to a licensed (FFL 01) professional full time Gunsmith and pay him to rebarrel the No.1 with a good quality barrel, machined, fit & installed correctly and then pay him or her to resolve the No.1 forearm issue. No barrel flutes, no fancy stuff on muzzle end, no exotic nothing. Just a properly machined, chambered, fit & installed quality barrel. Also pay Gunsmith to make a scope base that extends back over the receiver for proper scope mounting. The new barrel & forend are the key. Stop playing around trying to get that factory stock No.1 a bench rest rifle. You won’t with that particular barrel on it . If you have a factory No.1 .303 that is tack driver; good for you. But this barrel obviously throws them. Pay Gunsmith to rebarrel it . Advice from Gunsmith.
And even then there’s no guarantee; but, it should be MUCH better than what you are chasing
Buy a new barrel, probably trouble gone. 😊