Academic Criticism of the Winx Club || Winx Controversies P.2
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Is Winx Club bad for you??? 👀👀👀
It’s tea-time again!!! In this video, I bring you a discussion of some of the academic criticism levelled at Winx. Obviously, I am a mere layman, compared to these people who are experts in their fields, so I’m only coming at this from my perspective of having grown up with Winx… And I’m also really looking forward to seeing your opinions on these points!
Most of the papers I looked at were on the older side, and I was focusing on my own experiences as a child, so I didn’t really use post season 3 in my analyses, but obviously later seasons have their own serious issues, and please don’t hesitate to bring them up too!
I had a lot of fun editing my last video, and I’m really sorry that this one doesn’t hold up to it in terms of editing, visual jokes, and energy. Not my best work… 😔
Also, let me know what you think of the channel intro! (I fully understand if it’s just annoying…😅)
Thinking of a Barbie-related video next…👀
Welcome: 00:00
Intro: 00:43
Disclaimer: 01:13
Diversity: 02:10
Subverting stereotypes: 05:10
Identification: 07:04
Impact of violence: 10:50
Body proportions: 13:01
I get really off-track, and start talking about the state of Barbie in the year of our Winx 2022: 16:47
“Concluding” ramble: 17:35
Outro: 20:28
Bibliography: 21:08
#winxclub #winx #aisha #layla #bloom #flora #stella #musa #tecna
I believe in Flora/Igor supremacy.
(Ok, this one is kind of a mess.)
Welcome: 00:00
Intro: 00:43
Disclaimer: 01:13
Diversity: 02:10
Subverting stereotypes: 05:10
Identification: 07:04
Violence: 10:50
Body proportions: 13:01
I get really off-track, and start talking about the state of Barbie in the year of our Winx 2022: 16:47
“Concluding” ramble: 17:35
Outro: 20:28
Bibliography: 21:08
Also, I’m really sorry I came for the millennials...🥺🥺🥺please don’t write a song about it🥺🥺🥺
They've definitely got a point especially with Aisha being a stereotypical sporty black girl, which has been a point of irritation for me in the past as a black woman myself BUT I also as a black girl really appreciated Aisha's social struggles because I saw myself in her in that way. I really liked her character development though, she seemed much less one-note than Bloom, for example. She's a princess, clearly really intelligent (speaks all those languages), loves her family, and takes the role of princess seriously.
she started off as a dancer, femenine and a sweet princess, not only that but her bond with musa for feeling like an outsider was so special and then they turned her whatever she is now
It's interesting that while Keke Palmer resembled so much like the original Italian voice for Layla, Laura Lenghi...
the CINELUMÉ ON THE OTHER HAND chose a sweet girl voice for Layla which I prefer as an interesting contrast to her personality. Italian Bloom despite her fiery personality is a sweet girl too. ❤
And cute
@@gan5383h
regarding winx body type, it never bothered me as a kid. but what i can confidently say is that the impact was still there. i remember going through winx cosplay albums online and reading TONS of negative messages left by girls my age because the models were "too fat" and "ugly". and all those models were perfectly fine, they just didn't have their ribs removed and slight bbl done to their hips
That's a really good point, actually... I hadn't thought of it at all.
Tbh, all my body issues started with Winx (and I loved the show and still think fondly of it.)
@@valdavermillion4545 hm
@@foodham3277 h
I think the main problem comes in when these stereotypes or archetypes are used against their respective demographic irl,whereas the black girl is seen as the sporty one would be equated to more masculine and less girly and feminine therefore less seen as a Girl/Woman.
What I liked about winx & bratz(& imo where witch & allot of others failed)is that yea Aisha & Sasha were sporty but that was just a thing they liked to do it didn’t take away from there femininity,physically or mentally.
Interesting! I've just started to read the WITCH comics, so I'll be looking out for this. I've mostly seen praise for the characterisations (in terms of representation) in WITCH, so I hadn't noticed this around Taranee.
One thing I've noticed though is that WITCH kind of avoids femininity in a way that Winx really does not. Whilst researching I saw that Canepa & Barbucci called the direction WITCH took from the first issue "more feminine, less introspective", as if this hadn't been part of their original vision. Or I remember when I was little, people praising WITCH would highlight how "less girly and frivolous" it is. Do you have any thoughts on this as a wider thing in WITCH? (obviously, femininity in the context of Winx vs femininity in terms of womanhood and social status are different things: I don't mean to trivialise your statement in that regard.)
@@talkytilki i've read WITCH and they are less girly then Winx , but i dont think they reject their femininity ( at least from what i remember in the comics) i think its more toned down compared to Winx and i think this vision was more present in the tv series than the comics ( to appeal more to boys i think , even though there were many boys that watched Winx) . Its funny you said that in Taranee profile shes sporty but i only saw her playing sport once in the comics , and im like in issue 65
Good to know! I'll look out for that too then😁... The profile is from a magazine fact sheet type thing, I think, and the paper cites a similar profile if I remember correctly. Originally, I was going to make a point about that too; about comics, and magazines, and how that's a different medium, and a different approach to characterisation (in terms of "attributes are stacked").
@@talkytilki yea I don’t think witch itself had an agenda set on taranee or anything but it’s one of those tricky ropes you have to walk,like I’ve noticed a lot of doll/cartoon lines that’ll have 4-5 girls and the black girl is always the dancer/tomboy with the aesthetic to match,which isn’t a bad thing on its own because there are black girl tomboys but why can’t the black girl in cartoons & doll lines (they’re basically pipelined to each other lol)ever be the girly girl or the boho hippie girl etc , it becomes more annoying when every doll line seems to be doing it,that’s why Aisha stood out to me because she was somewhat a tomboy and athletic but she kept her femininity with her aesthetic overall.
@UCK-yfAlPO2v99Z6vzPC4SNg Totally agree !!!
I have very many stances on this, for starters as a kid the body of the Winx Girls never once at ALL bothered me, and this is coming from someone who was and still is very overweight. Their body or how thin they were never at once crossed my mind, I never stopped to think "they look so good, why don't I look like that?" In fact, I got that vibe more or so from live action films. It was more about the outfits, the hair, the extravagance of it all that caught my attention.
I grew up with Winx club and I'm thankful. This cartoon taught me that you can be feminine, like cloths, fashion and still kick a§§. It also push me to value female friend ship.
Also, Aisha was my first black representation. Being a black girl growing up in France and watching barbie, I thought only white blond girls could be pretty. Watching Aisha, I thought "Oh, you can be pretty and black". So yeah, Aisha fit the black sporty girl stereotypes, but she wasn't only that. At least, I don't remember her this way and I didn't perceived her that way. For me, she was the socially awkward girl who had a hard time making friend. Her fear of loneliness resonated with me,and the way she overcomed it inspired me.
Still, I have to admit that the Winx club body types negatively influenced me. I began to compare myself to them and thought my belly was fat, and that I was fat in general, when in reality I was pretty slim. But putting all the blame on Winx is way to easy. It wasn't only them. The fact being skinny means being beautiful was reinforced everywhere around me. The top model, the tv stars, the other cartoons... If I would have encountered conter exemple, it wouldn't have that effect on me.
Ah, thank you for sharing. Yes, I think regardless of how much or how little negative impact Winx's body type has, it doesn't negate the importance for all different types of body representation. There is an artist - Prince Ivy - who has a Winxspired comic about fairy OCs with different body shapes, and it's all really pretty. So, the art style isn't necessarily an excuse.
I totally agree with that, especially for the bodytype. I grew up with Barbies and other toys or characters which weren't realistic and never cared about the body itself. It was more about the hair, the eye color, the clothes... I feel like some people constantly try to search problems everywhere. I think that the ones who absolutely want to find a representation of themselves are young adults, and not kids. Kids tend to focus on other details.
I remember getting some book from the library called 'A for Alice' and the author thought it was really relatable how the MC was beating up her Barbie doll she got for her birthday because it was too skinny. I read that as a kid like "0_o I wanna beat up the MC." NOT relatable.
@Monkey fr kids don't care about or understand politics and "social issues"
Even as an adult I cringe at that kind of stuff in fiction/media aimed at kids/young people. And it's kind of the reason I can't stand adult oriented media either.
Lol, remember when Adults hated Barbie so much they funded a boring ass doll named Lammy who's all gimmick was being 'not Barbie'. The doll had no hook for a child to be interested in it. It was just a boring lady in plain clothes designed by people who are obviously not doll designers. It was so dumb.
I’m half white and latina but thick
@@monkey6207I saw one for bratz
Cloe is not any more of a shopaholic than the other bratz, she is actually a sporty, anxious girl Cornelia is not boy crazy either, and doesn't have a bubbly personality
Well mga keeps switching jade and cloe personalities
i was fully obsessed with winx club when it came out. i was 7 at the time. personally, i never aspired to have a body like they did. as a kid, i didn’t think about that kind of thing when i was watching cartoons. i definitely did think about it when i would watch live action stuff, though.
I remember just thinking their shirts were weird. Like Bloom's, you just wanna pull it down. Why did the men draw it so high up and weird? The men who designed the outfits were a little weird. But their weight is not the issue.
I never...literally never thought to compare myself to Winx, barbie, or any character I liked as a kid
Now I think the defense vs violence thing is interesting especially when compared to male super heroes because it reminds of how people view especially black women when they speak up as being aggressive whereas a man is just being assertive and bringing order, and like maybe it's that we as a culture view women especially white women as innocent, and when that woman is a child they're super innocent so when these girls think defensive magic is cool instead of the ability to grow a plant with magic it conflicts with what we want these girls to be like. And I don't know why a girl would think that shields and the ability to freeze an enemy is cool, maybe it's a cool super power that they can imagine their toys have or maybe there's a cycle of bullying and such powers would come in handy to avoid such conflict.
As a kid I always wanted destructive powers to protect myself. It probably stemmed from me being physically abused by my parents and feeling weak and defenseless. So imagining having super powers and beating the bad guys up in a cartoon inside my head brought me some type of comfort as a weird coping mechanism. Idk about these other young girls though, could be just a preference of superpower types. As a kid I always preferred powers that were using the mind to cause damage and flying/levitating so the characters are invincible and untouchable. (Sorry for the trauma dumping)
Some fun and quirky info on the W.I.T.C.H. characters from a fan of both the show and comics: Taranee used to be more nerdy at the start of the W.I.T.C.H. comics and the cartoon, and it comes as a huge surprise that she plays Basketball, when she's never exhibited that in either of the two mediums (as far as I remember). I do know that later on in the comics, she takes up dancing, though, so that character archetype was eventually fulfilled. Also, her transformation outfit has always looked very sporty, despite Taranee herself not starting out as a sporty character.
Also, Cornelia in the comics was more of a bossy stern type of character, pedantic and straightforward. A cold beauty of sorts, while they changed her up a bit in the cartoon to be the beauty queen.
And Will was an emo.
Hey! I think we spoke of this under my last WITCH video, but the idea that Taranee is a basketball player is from companion material. I have been trying to track this down, because it is very interesting: There is a significant difference between how the WITCH characters are marketed vs what they are actually like in the comics or the show. This is in a way in contrast to Winx where characters are marketed within their specific aesthetics, niches, and even stereotypes, but within the text these stereotypes subverted (e.g., Stella being a ‘popular blonde’, but the text actually exploring why she is the way she is). Essentially, both franchises as products are interested in superficial coding and stereotypes as a way to sell the product, but the texts themselves approach character building in different ways.
I have been growing interested in this topic since my WITCH & Winx video, because there are in fact a lot of curious decisions within the WITCH marketing: From starting off as a magazine that is interested in Esoterica, to a second ‘spin-off’ magazine that is basically a ‘girly’ celebrity magazine for teens (interesting especially when the creators themselves stressed that they were quite invested in WITCH not being ‘too feminine’), the decisions to ‘masculinise’ the product for the show adaptation, Disney’s reluctance to invest in the project for being ‘too witchy’, the whole Disney aspect of it itself, etc. I am slowly gathering intel on all these things (I won’t make a video on this until I am sufficiently acquainted with the franchise though, which means comics->show-> companion material in that order, and in that order only, because I am pedantic 😵💫).
I have started to reread the comics now, and it’s interesting what you’re saying about Cornelia, because that’s immediately what I was struck by: She is very much not the 'typical blonde girl’? So yes, my curiosity is peaked!
(sorry for the essay x)
@@talkytilki That's very interesting! I didn't know they were marketed like that at first, and it really is strange they made them very different in the final product.
Feel free to ask about certain things about W.I.T.C.H. if you like. I'm not really an expert on the marketing stuff, but I do remember a lot of the narrative stuff and how their powers progressed throughout the comic vs the TV show.
Yeah, it's very interesting, because Cornelia sometimes takes center stage instead of Will, so I assume that's why they tweaked her personality to be more of a natural leader type. There really is a lot of material and it's very interesting to see how these stereotypes are handled by both shows. I think Stella's path was more of a "ditsy shallow girl is actually also capable, caring and kind", while Cornelia's was more of a "perfectionist Ice Queen learns how to appreciate the people around her more".
I Watch Winx since I was 2 or my parents made me Watch them, but I never tought anything bad about It. Like I never wanted to be as slim as them or Barbie. Actually, when I was littler, I wanted to be beautiful, but growing up, that desire completely faded away. Well, I'm that type of girl that never really played with dolls, a nerd that loved playing anything, and loved seeing series like Winx, MLP, totally spies, I loved the designs of the girls, the story of the shows, the powers, I actually Always wished I could be a Fairy like One of the wings, I Just loved the concept of flying and be able to do magic.
to be honest, I've also never been bothered by winx's body type as a kid, since I was naturally skinny. When I watched winx as a kid, it really thought me more on never giving up and the power of friendship. It was really for entertainment only, but I'm glad that I grew up with that show.
Yeah, I don't get why politically correct people act like skinny people don't exist? Like the 'realistic barbie' picture. Uhh, speak for yourself.
I'm sure kids don't take body proportions too seriously in cartoons because, well... they're CARTOONS, exaggerations of proportions by definition. It's like anime, I'm sure every kid knows that the character's big colourful eyes are purely an artistic choice. Besides, when the show is about a magical world were fairies, monsters and the likes exist, most kids would understand that even the human's appearances are made to look unrealistic.That's how I felt when I was a child.
What DID rub me the wrong way was with live action shows and movies directed at teenagers, that, mind you, were "supposed" to represent a more realistic world with settings like highschool and such, and then you see all those teenage "girls" (who were actually grown women) talking about nothing but how you're supposed to be pretty by society's standards so you can get the boy. THOSE were the shows/movies that made me question my appearance, specifically the ones with the infamous "ugly duckling" cliche about a decent looking girl forced to change to a more acceptable appearance by specific beauty standards.
Sorry for my rant, but it angers me how people blame cartoons for children's conducts, since they completely miss the point about how it's mass media in general that sends those kind of messages, not just in animation.
I will say that Winx itself didn't necessarily impact my body image, but the culture around Winx did/how adults conceptualized Winx. One of the unfortunate core memories of my childhood is being 8, a bit chubby, and asking my mom if I could be Bloom for Halloween and her telling me my body type wouldn't fit the style. It's definitely more of an issue with my mom than anything else, but I can't help but wonder if there was a fairy that was bigger if she'd let me dress up as them. I remember that affecting me so intensely that I actually never considered dressing up as any of the characters again, and it makes me sad considering it was my absolute favorite show as a kid.
I don't really get the first papers comparing of Taranee and Aisha. They aren't really similar at all. Taranee isn't particularly sporty especially in the cartoon. Taranee's a bookworm, shes a little cowardly but her defining trait is intelligence, I'd say shes more similar to Tecna than any other Winx girl. Not to say that Aisha isn't an intelligent character, she is, but shes not a 'nerd' like Tecna or Taranee.
Hmmm. See, I was thinking the whole time I was making this video: Oh, maybe I'm not giving the papers enough credit? Surely, they know something I don't, they know better, this being their field and all...? But then there were things I kept coming across, where I knew that's just not true. Don't get me wrong, there were some really interesting things too (and maybe I'll talk about them too eventually), but then there are things like this. So... hmmm.
It feels like these "criticisms" are actually the ones enforcing stereotypes by blaming characters on traits (that they don't have). I only watched a few episodes of W.i.t.c.h., but just with that I could already tell that Taranee and Cornelia were different from Layla/Aisha and Stella respectively.
@Nana good point! It feels like they're complaining about an issue that isn't really there or trying to blame cartoons for things that the cartoons aren't really responsible for. What's wrong with being a black person who's into music or sports? Or beingva blonde girl who's into shopping and boys? Why is that a bad thing to be portrayed? I'd understand if it was used in a way to say "this character is a bad person because she's x and does y" but it's really not the case here. It's just some girls with interests that have nothing to do with their race. Archetypes/stereotypes maybe, but harmless imo. It would be actually problematic if it was "blonde girl who shops is dumb and superficial, don't be like her lol, being feminine and a girly girl IS BAD!" like some cartoons with alt girls tend to do, where the feminine girly girl is the bad one and the alt tomboy girl is the good one. Or if it was "black girl who's into sports/musuc is too masculine and ugly and not a real girl, don't be like her! No main male character wants to date her because of that lol" like some shows where the main girl is feminine and the bad girl who tries to take her bf/crush away from her is tomboyish/masculine (never seen this with a black girl tbh or in any show I watched but it probably exists since the inverse of it does, and ugly nerdy girl hitting on guy who doesn't like her played for laughs is a thing)
When I was I little kid, I never think about wanting to have Winx’s body type, all I ever thought was their outfits to have a inspiration of creating one and battle scenes since I’m like my father(we both like action and fighting scenes)
Honestly, I never saw the very skinny bodies of the characters as such. The universe has no larger women and it is never adressed (Fate, on the other hand...). If everyone is skinny, nobody is. Winx has no fat-shaming at all since that's just part of the artstyle. Neither glorified nor sexualized. The skinny bodies in Winx are like big eyes or hairstyles in anime, impossible and therefore unattainable.
I did develop anorexia later in my adolescense but that came from real life people. From peers bullying me, from people on TV I *could* look like because they were also humans, not cartoon characters.
i agree 100%, when i watched winx around ages 5-7, i only ever focused on their cute hairstyles and pretty outfits, and wanted to try their different styles. my weight and body image was never an issue for me or brought to my attention until i got older and family members and "friends" would point out how "fat" i was. only then i would get insecure, not from watching a cartoon which i knew wasn't real
I am surprised people focus on that trait, when their outfits designed by men are the more weird part of their designs. The body type is not the problem, but why is one of them in a bra? That was not designed by a woman for a woman.
@Monkey wait which one is in a bra? I personally think their clothes are normal and I see people dress like that these days all the time. And in the show itself no one really goes "oooh hot body" at any of the girls and we never get pervy weird shots of them so it never seems sexual to me.
Who cares about the bodies? Nobody complaining on "boys" cartoons about their muscles
@@monkey6207 the outfits are gorgeus
So, I am currently 19 and I love Winx Club (season 1-4) and I still watch it to chill out when things get out of my hands. And at some points I disagree about the critisism, but I also had to agree on serval points.
I liked how the Winx girls looked, and I never felt the need to become like one. Because I already looked like a mix of Flora and Bloom. But other cartoons and the enviorment I was in definitly influenced some of my issues about my looks. I wanted to be a blonde, blue-eyed, pale skin, petite girl just like Barbie, but not only because I was watching those movies, but also because my enviorment was enforcing that - as a Child I was taking drama classes, and even tho I desperatly wanted to have the main girl role, I was never picked. I always got the villain role because I was tall, tanned, dark eyes and hair, while smaller, blonde, pale girls were getting the princess role. But it wasnt directly Winx Club, since Winx had a much bigger diversity of features (except for body types), while Barbie was centric one beauty standard as the ultiminate one (while all the winx despite their different features, they were all hinted to be very beautiful, and having a lot of guys flirting with them). I honestly dont agree on the race stereotypes. I feel like in winx the characters may seem a little cliche, only to break those cliches (stella not being a dumb blonde/the fake blonde friend, but rather the most loyal and brave, and Aisha being emotionally vulnerable and having her breakdown moments and allowing her to show emotions). Musa also doesnt fit typical asian stereotypes (either submissive or a femme fatale), and is her own person with struggles, passion, personality and is definitly not created to please any man (even Riven).
So thats my take
on the body proportions. you're completely right about it being a style choice, the Winx art style/body proportions are HEAVILY based on fashion sketches, you know, the very rough exaggerated sketches fashion designers will draw of their designs before they start actually making the garment. The fashion industry is painted all over Winx, down to all the outfits being designed by real Italian fashion designers.
My desire to look like Bloom as a kid was centered on emulating the fashion, telling ppl i was a fairy and sitting in the sun because i heard that sun exposure could make my already reddish hair brighter.. none of which i think "corrupted my mind"
Potential hottake, but i think most of the crap winx and other girl-targeted media receive are just from people who are just negatively biased against girl media. No one care if a boy is obsessed with superman and cars, but if a girl is obsessed with Winx Club or SuperWhoLock then shes cringe and likes "problematic things". its so tired. Sometimes, the curtains are just blue because they are blue.
growing up watching Winx and Barbie movies, i never really cared about their body types. i believe its just solely the art style thing. i remember that i loved sketching the characters and always thought they looked cool, but i never assumed that that's what real people were supposed to look like. My fav girl has always been Musa - i don't remember the exact reason why I chose her but the important thing is that her physicality had nothing to do with my obsession with her. i also wasn't really trying to look like her. i'm eastern europian and Musa is east asian-coded so i wasn't attached to her because i saw myself in her (in appearance). i've noticed that every quality which i admired about Musa had already been in me - she's sweet, caring and empathetic, intuitive, loves music and apparently has the same personality type as me. and growing up Musa's color pallet has always been my fav and i used to buy blue/purple/bright-pink items and clothes. and thats pretty much as far as my Musa obsession went. i think people overthink the whole cartoon body-image thing wayy too much.
I’m so manifesting your growth as RUclipsr. ✨✨. Growing up I watched both Winx and W.I.T.C.H. It’s interesting to look back at it because my younger Twins sister are so invested in it so I occasionally watch it with them. I remember way back online there was this huge debated up wat about them. But from what I vividly remember it was always Cornelia and Stella pitted against each other. Cornelia was labeled as second strongest member from the cartoon, and Stella was the second most powerful fairy, But Iginio has stated on multiple occasions that Flora is the second strongest fairy. What I find extremely ironic is that their both nature fairies, fan favorites, supposedly the beautiful ones from the group and both have a somewhat bratty little sister. That’s just me being me.
But moving from all this winx had a great impact, but I never saw myself wanting to be those girls. The episode that hurt was the one where the girls was being made fun of for her kinky hair. That hurt the little black girl in me. I also associated beauty with hair, wishing my hair was curly like most lighter skin women so I could always straighten, I was always happy when I got box braids because It gave of the illusion of longer hair, and wigs. I remember in middle school, I was trying to find research that black girls could be born with braids I was so desperate to find an excuse so I could have my hair in braids longer. But months and months has already passed. And what you said about their powers being more defense is a BEAUTIFUL thing that I hope they use in their live action that they are making. I think it’s interesting if you compare female characters to the winx. Look at Gwen Tennyson Ben 10 evolution Starfire from teen titans these are women who aren’t afraid of to get messy and use brute force and actually cause harm. And that’s perfectly fine and that same concept can be applied with W.I.T.C.H, I love that the winx intentionally hold themselves back and just get real violent in time of need. Wel that was my little Ted talk of some sort. I fully think that winx has the potential to become a huge IP like Marvel, DC, and Harry Potter. They just need someone who fully understand and respect the source material. Sorry mister young 😂🤭.
tysm🥺🥺🥺
It’s interesting what you say about female characters in other franchises: To be honest, I’m not always with the crowd that praises the ‘hyper-femininity’ in Winx (I feel like it’s a little superficial, and “consumer-ist” sometimes to praise Winx for being pink and sparkly when this was not done to empower, but to sell… especially considering how different aesthetically the 2001 version is), but I always appreciated the value that Winx does put on “feminine qualities”. I feel like there is a trend in female characters where they follow a ‘male model’ of empowerment, in the sense that they are lone wolves, battle weary, and STRONG TM. Which isn’t a negative (I would love to be self-sufficient, and have a massive sword to poke people away when they get too close), but Winx was refreshing in more subtle ways for me as a child when the emphasis was on their network and their close relationships to each other despite not always getting along (a lot of s2 is dedicated to this), their connection to nature (for example the Symphony of Nature, and Flora crying after always stuck in my mind), and Winx’s code of honour and mercy… I don’t know why; it always just stuck in my mind that they refused to harm soldiers or offered the WotBC redemption. So yes, when these studies threaten parents that Winx is going to teach their children nothing but to become violent skinny airheads, it rubs me the wrong way. That was not what I felt I received from it at all.
I also really appreciate that you shared your own struggles and experience. I’m really sorry that I didn’t see your comment earlier; I wouldn’t want you to think that I ignored it, when you were so candid.
I was always fat, but never compared myself to Winx. I just knew they're unreal, however I felt like I know them in reality and they were like friends to me. I still draw them. I'm thinking about making an Instagram with my drawings, but now I'm afraid of... Winx fandom.
It's impossible to make everyone happy. There will be people who compare themselves to Winx, and there will be people, who don't compare. It's all in our minds. In Polish language we have saying, that means more less this: there's no such born (human), who could please everyone (Jeszcze się taki nie urodził, co by wszystkim dogodził). And this fits to many other situations and people - artists, actors, directors, writers... It's impossible to predict who will react how to what. We can talk about it, but isn't it pointless?
There are some valid criticisms about Taranee in W.I.T.C.H. however the ones mentioned in the study you cited were kinda ???? In the comic, I don't think she was ever into basketball, also there were some issues that had the girls playing sports she was never the "sporty girl". She was the shy nerdy girl who was into classical music and photography. In the later arcs of the comic she did develop an interest in dance and and had a whole character arc where she enrolled into a dance school. You're absolutely right about that's how it is IRL, people can have multiple interests.
Hello! Yes, this is why I asked for help because I just don't know the other three properties as well as Winx. The more I learn about this study, the funnier it is, because they tried to argue about this narrative of stereotypes in these shows relating to physical appearance... by apparently assuming that these characters must fit these stereotypes solely based on their appearance??? (To be completely fair, this section is a small section out of a bigger paper which covers more than these properties, so it wasn't fair of me to treat it like a full argument on its own, but since this video's focus was Winx...) I will say though for Taranee, based on some googling I did whilst looking for graphics for the video, I did find stuff about her being 'the sporty one' of the group, and liking basketball specifically. These were magazine factsheets/interviews, and other quickfire promo material. So there does seem to be a disconnect between what she actually was written to be, and how she was marketed despite it all? But again, I'm not super familiar; do you have any thoughts?
It’s true. When I was younger the main thing that would make me think a character was pretty was if they had super long hair and wore pink! If you couldn’t guess my favorite was Flora haha
OMG I also red the Infernal Concoction comic and was absolutely IN LOVE with it - I’m so glad I’m not the only one to still remember this masterpiece 😍
I think the body type issue has a bit of a point, but it doesn't really give little girls enough credit to discern what is realistic. I definitely wanted to be as thin as the Winx at some point when I was around 7 years old, but then I took a look at the girls and women around me and quickly realized that the proportions weren't anything close to realistic, so I just settled with trying to grow out my hair.
The criticims of the characters having powers to fight with just feels so wrong to me, it reminds me of the whole video games incentivizing violence debate, it's started by people who have no idea what they are talking about and would probably wrap their kids in bubble wrap until the age of 18 if they were legally allowed to do so, leaving them entirely uprepared to face the real world with a healthy mindset.
I had already grown out of the target audience when Winx Club came out, but there was something quintessentially fun about magical girl fairies that pulled me in, despite not enjoying the voice acting and some story elements as much.
I felt internal conflict in having a view that had both admiration and criticism, and longed to see the full potential of the series realised, and this made the media extra compelling for me in some way. I find "love/hate" relationships with things to be even stronger than straight out admiration for a reason I haven't discovered yet.
As soon as you mentioned the topic of violence I remembered as a kid I would always make my dolls engage in violent behaviour through flying,spells and sounds of explosions simply because I saw it in Winx and I found it entertaining but in a cool way
Lucy being implicitly considered ugly just because she was different from the rest of them 💔
I'm so sorry but she is ugly 💀 also she was evil and mean a lot of times, so that made it hard to digest her. Until she finally redeemed herself and apologized to Mirta who always accepted her, loved her, took care of her, and worried about her despite her behavior. Her looks were never brought up though.
These studies feel like cherrypicked and not being very dug deeper. Especially the body type one.
I have a relative who suffered from anorexia because food was the only thing she could control in her life at the time (her father was a raging alcoholic) and Winx was not the cause.
The diversity one might be about the fact that some features of dark skinned women are seen as less feminine due to euro eurocentric white beauty standards (I speak as an Italian fair skinned woman so maybe I'm bit far off) but just like you said the interests of dark skinned women are just a part of who they are. They don't take away their femininity, especially in Aisha's case.
The thing about violence is just the Italian way of saying "television is a bad teacher". Fantasy violence is much different and the only hint of REAL violence is in season 1 when Musa slaps Icy out of impulsiveness. Children are exposed to real violence via abusive parents and teachers, bullying, news outlets, and tv itself in those daytime talk shows, boiling down to "tv bad, book good".
The only criticism that can be truly applied to the Winx Club are the vast commercialism and the constant heteronormativity (but still we see in the first and second season that not every main character does not get the lover).
Here in Italy we had huge case where homophobic psychologist Vera Slepoj who caused gay panic to parents of those male kids, who watched Sailor Moon because she said they would become homosexual by just watching the Sailor Starlights transforming from males to females. And when you think about that the father of psychology, Sigmund Freud, wrote to a worried mother that her son's homosexuality was just a variation of heterosexuality, you know you just tried throw some shit to the wall to see if something sticks. Just my two cents
Freud is the father of psychoanalysis not psychology.
I don't see what's wrong with violence in self defense. What's so bad about that?
@@monkey6207 It's oversensitivity, some people can't stand any form of violence for personal reasons, but they take it too far by demanding the censor any representation of violence. You can blame irresponsible parents who blame their children's conducts on TV and social media instead of their actual parenting
Good point about heteronormativity. There was so many potential lesbian couples or characters that could've been better off single. Mirta and Flora, Mirta and Lucy, Flora being single, Musa being single because Riven is repulsive, Musa and Aisha (Nabu wasn't a bad guy but he met her first by stalking her 💀), Bloom being single because her and Sky don't make sense to me, Stella and Bloom if Brandon wasn't a good boyfriend to Stella. I nevdr watched anything past season 4 but heard people talking about some guy named ron and another guy named nex being good for each other but idk
@@user-bx8sj6qm3w Absolutely!! I hated most of the male characters in Winx Club precisely because they were just the obligatory boyfriends. They were all so booooring too. The only ones I liked were Brandon and Timmy because they at least had distinct personalities and good chemistry towards their girlfriends. If i had the chance to rewrite Winx Club, I would get rid of all the specialists except those two
Biggest problem i see is that they show them as those 16 year old girls that look like anorexic, only males have „norma” body styles. Yes, we sometimes see bigger people, but they’re just background characters and from as far as i remember only adults. It’s just like barbie, showing little girls that this is how 16 year old and adults female should look like… super slim and bigger body parts that are appearing for male… This is what others me the most, i dont expect fat people to be main character but the whole Alfia (i hope i spelled it right) and the witch school have only super slim body.
The thing that also bothered me in one episode is when trix used spell on one girl hair to change it to afro and everyone acted as it was the most ugly hair style ever, when actualy it’s very beautiful!
I feel like if Winx were a show we all hated we would wholeheartedly agree to the critique of it enforcing unrealistic beauty standards. But because we love it we want to shield it from criticism lol
I think we can all agree on one thing. A tleast it isn't Hogwarts.
Also, one last thing. Here we are having W.i.t.c.h. and Pretty Cure giving black air force energy with theri incredible fight scenes while the Winx are constantly in Totally Spies style restraints. Why?
Ngl as a little girl (and a bit) until this day i sort of reflect my appearance on them, but sides after I got to know why they're like that (Ps: their based of fashion sketches) and til this day that sort of reflected on me,
but i do COMPLETELY agree with you on the aspect that they`re meant to be stylized and not a reflection of our own reality
Thank you for sharing, and like I said, I think it's important for us as a fandom to know: Because I think some people, like myself, were lucky enough to be protected from more overt body image messaging in media until they were older, and had grown out of Winx. But at the same time, like I said, stylised or not, it is not a coincidence that the Winx look like "the ideal woman", and things like this can lay the foundations of our perception of the world as the children. It's tricky. As an adult, I really like the extreme look of the Winx as an iconic recognisable style, but it doesn't negate any negative impact it had, especially as it was intended for children. But I can only talk from my perspective, so I appreciate you sharing 💖
@@talkytilki i gotta think u 2 for sharing & listening as well,you really bring in some points in ur vids that i haven`t seen in other channels,so i gotta thank u instead🧚
I'm assigned male at birth and I played with dolls way into my teenage years, the idea that I'll never look like the dolls I played with or that I found their body shape to be something I should/could aspire to is only something that dawned on me as a kid I my aspirations would be either more superficial (long hair, esthetic, jewelry) or more subtle (the way they moved, danced in their transformation scenes, held their hands in certain scenes, the way they spoke)
Their positions look so much more sexualised now that I'm older, I'm wondering how harmful (psychologically) it is for young girls to emulate a body language that has sexual undertones where those tones are only sexual to those who know what it means and most kids are unaware of what they are portraying 🤔
I personally as a child felt the need to aspire to be as “sexy” as animated female character designs were. I wanted a cinched waist and huge hips and huge bust, but it wasn’t about skinniness for me yet by that point. It was the extreme curves
Long hair, a form of beauty? Idk man, why does everyone say they’re a girly think? I like longer hair (including medium hair) because it’s more interesting, not because it’s “girly”
I'm so happy the fandom is still active to this day
As a child it never occured to me that I was supposed to aspire to look like a character from the show. Speaking as a man, I just really liked the show and didn't boder to think about that I was supposed to strve to be like on of the guys. Personally I doubt this is any different from girls who watched the show.
I loved the video! It was really interesting to see your analysis ! it would be wonderful to have a part 3 ! Are you interested in doing a video talking more about your favorite winx club comics? I am interested in reading them , i just dont know if they are all worth it, but thank you for another video !
I have plenty of Winx controversies I'm ready to dish out (and some are already scripted which is nice), and yes, I'm absolutely going to make a video about my fave comics, as well as the alternative canon of the comics themselves (some really cool stuff there about the Trix for example, or Princess Tecna and the robot revolution👀). Thank you for your interest!
btw i'm binge watching your channel rn :D i love it so much💕
Yay! Thank you! I'm super glad you're enjoying it 💖💖💖
The most influential parts of Winx Club for me wasn't the storyline or the representation or even the bada$$ moments the main 6 had, but the scenes where we see the boys fighting or sparing. I remember seeing them and thinking it would be cool to learn how to use swords and other things we see them use instead of wanting to have a partner like them. As for the body type for the animation style Winx took on, I admired the girls and how beautiful they looked to me but never felt jealous or wanted to look physically like them. The artstyle chosen heavily influenced my early art and still does have some rein over it now. In hind-sight it may have been the undiscovered lesbian and tomboy in me -with some serious Internalized-Homophobia- that made me enjoy shows "meant for boys" that (in *my* opinion) were better in action, style, and plot. However I still greatly enjoyed it to the point that I started drawing my favorite characters from the show from memory (that was a big thing for me as when I was little I only drew something when I was hyper-fixated on it. - perks of undiagnosed ADHD - and tended to run around and try to climb things, out of spite for the fact that I was told, by many people, that girls are supposed to be more delicate and cautious. Which is not related to any cartoon or animated series at all). In conclusion I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. While there are a couple of good points being made in these papers they fail to look at main details and logistics. A magical girls show is meant to be just that, a show that puts female clichés and archetypes into a fantasy setting with no real link to reality. Not a harmful thing that children happen upon and makes them think they need to change themselves to be more like them both physically and personality wise.
Edits were just some small meaning-less things like half of my comment being in bold because of the way I originally censored a word with asterisks(yes that's what the little stars '*' are called)
i love that at 4.58 you used pics of a turkish girl group called Hepsi !!! it was nostalgic to see that and im kinda amazed that u know them haha
I'd like to make a vid about them at some point...
@@talkytilki please do !!! i can help if u want anything i was like their #1 fan haha
4:43 I'd would argue that as a kid, you relate to characters because A) they either look like you B) have the same interests as you C) you want to be like them
Honestly when i was a kid i was obsessed with winx and yeah i didnt care that mucch for the bodies my parents were worried abt it but i was yeah they dont have a stomac as jokes but tbh im a gay dude so that may be a reason
i dont care about body type in dolls, i care about the shoes fitting every doll tho.
Okay first off I want to clarify that Winx club was one of the most positive impacts a cartoon series has ever had on my life and I definitely do not think it is bad for anybody secondly your hopes for the Barbie brands returning back to princess and the puppeteer quality or ideas that I can 100% support very based 💜👊👍👋✌️😁💜🙏🍿💜
also Hay Lin and musa are super different
Fascinating interesting informative video on the history of the Winx Club franchise from Cartoon Movies Books 📖 etc.
as a kid, i wasn't a big fan of the winx because to me they seemed like a group of mean girls. the types of people who would bully people like me probably. but this is just child-mes perception and not my main problem with the series.
one of my concerns about the winx when i see this as an adult is not that their bodies look obviously unrealistic/cartoonish, but their outfits. combined with the *ahem* suspicious camera angles, it gets a quite uncomfortable to watch the underage girls fight enemies in skimpy shorts and miniskirts.
while the cartoonish body types probably don't affect children, the kids will try to look like their heroes in other ways, aka dressing like them.
this is the point where the outfits of fictional cartoon characters turn into a real life problem.
Body types? Really? I don’t know why anyone would be bothered with that.
Also, 13:52, you said “And what 6 year old girl would like to grow up to be as a woman” meanwhile me who’s a teen and a transmasc XD
But I guess, I used to be a 6 year old girl XD
Also some comments point out there’s a lot of sus moments like 8:12 I know a lot are jokes though
Please make a part 2
What child compares themselves to an idealized doll... That doesn't make any sense unless someone else is already comparing them to an idealized body....
winx club is TERRIBLE !! ! the AUDACITY it made me go through CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT and SELF DISCOVERY ?? ?? ?that i am sapphic and like WOMEN ?
i want to be flora. winx club is so important to me, i grew up with it and it will forever have a special place in my heart. omg i just remembered that song of the whales exists. . time to relive my childhood !! !
Flora does not represent a real female in any way, like, at all.
@@monkey6207 i meant i want to be her as in like .. . i want her hairstyles and her fashion sense and i want to be a motherly friend surrounded by plants. . .
18:13 Oh I WILL be purchasing. Do you have any more info for those who wanna read this?
Hey! Ok, so the book will be in Italian (La nazione Winx: Educare la futura consumista) and is by N. Marini-Maio and E. Nerenberg. There were several release dates given for it, but it's still not out as far as I can tell. Tbf it's often like this for academic publications. But in the meantime, the authors have written plenty, including on Winx, and in English too if you have access to academic databases. This is one of them: Marini-Maio, N. and Nerenberg, E., 2020. The 'angelification' of girls: Winx Club as a neo-liberal Catholic project. Journal of Italian Cinema & Media Studies, 8(1), pp.23-41
x
I don’t like Taranee all that much
Interesting video!
I'm super curious what you meant by 'catholic propaganda' on the show. I don't remember that at all, what were you meaning?
Ok, so, I sensationalised a little bit with 'propaganda' 😶🌫️, but there is a paper I didn't get a chance to get into, about how a lot of the imagery in Winx (especially transformation sequences) borrows from Western mysticist art, and the iconography of female saints (in specific contrast to predecessors like Sailor Moon), and how the ethics and morality of the story are rooted in Catholicism (no surprise there, Italian show), but also how the franchise itself is a Catholic-Entreprenurial project (I don't really know how to explain this because I'm not even sure I understand it 😅, but basically Winx as a product combines the mission of social welfare [through extensive charity work, and messaging about social issues, e.g. environmentalism, etc.] with consumer desire [insane merchandising, and playing into sensibilities, e.g. fashion].) It's at the very least an interesting read, if you want to check it out: [Marini-Maio, N. and Nerenberg, E., 2020. The 'angelification' of girls: Winx Club as a neo-liberal Catholic project. Journal of Italian Cinema & Media Studies, 8(1), pp.23-41.]
@@talkytilki Thanks for clarifying, I read the essay. Yes it seems to be saying that Pigini, one of the founders of Rainbow, was a Catholic priest involved in Catholic Entrepreneurial projects (like helping the animation industry to grow in that part of Italy).
It claims the iconography in the transformations (which seems to mean their wings) is reminiscent of angels or saints in Western iconography. (I was confused as to why this was 'in contrast' to Sailor Moon, since I thought she too has wings in that cartoon?)
Then it went on to say the Catholic morals Winx promotes are "the environment, health and nutrition", but these are not specifically Catholic morals.
Therefor I don't think it's entirely fair to say there is Catholic propaganda in the cartoon (in fact, I only remembered a lot of contradictory things to Catholicism in it).
As a Catholic, I don't think that's what Winx was going for. Because the way they dressed was not exactly modest, they were materialistic, and there were references to Wicca etc. (maybe just in the dub), which are not exactly Catholic morals. Yet it seems to want to be archetypical or moral or transcendent. If it wanted to be Catholic specifically, it keeps tripping over itself.
But I think there are universal themes in the cartoon that make it appeal to many.
H!
I love Winx but what I find problematic about it is the abundance of gender stereotypes in it. The guys are the fighters, the girls are the fairies. The whole social dynamic between the girls and the boys is very stereotypical. like every other show of that time Winx is just super duper heteronormative
I've never seen witch , however i wouldn't say Sasha was sporty ( Cloe however was ) , nor that Cloe was a boy crazy gossip , all of the totally spies and bratz , who are literally called the girls with a passion for fashion , are ' shopaholics ' , the description does match stella hoever she does grow and become less superficial and ' gossipy ' , ( jade more so then Cloe ) , i don't recall Alex taking a particular interest in music however both the winx girls and the bratz are in a band , and Musa { not layla ) is the fairy of music , however all of the main characters in both shows love music ( in Bratz sasha does so more then the others , yes ) HOWEVER yasmine and flora on the other hand are very similar characters in my opinion and they are both the latina/hispanic characters ( debatable on yaz , some say middle eastern some say latina however i will just go off of the live action bratz where she and her family speak spanish ), there's also the matter of Musa and Jade ( and mandy if she counts , not a main character but important still ) and how as far as i am aware their race is the only thing they have in common , i guess in totally spies Alex could be seen as a token character , in winx half of the cast is made of people of colour however the other half is white ehich yes could be an issue and it could have been more diverse ( plus Bloom and stella where more the main characters and are white ) however , they are based on the most popular female celebrities at the time , and unfortunately most of them were white , BUT BRATZ HAD EVERY SINGLE MC BE A DIFFERENT RACE ... anyways , i think that they were pretty diverse shows esp for the 2000s since a lot of other things from the time were very white with some stereotypical black people and not many other races were represented , but anyways that's just my humble opinion.
That study sounds like it was just drawing a conclusion to stir up controversy
are you swedish? i noticed some clips and pictures have swedish text on them lol
Looking back at these black character i never associated them. Taranee was the nerdy and insecure. Alex was energetic and goofy, Aisha was a bad ass and sensitve and shasha was fashionable and sarcastic. Even the blonde one isn't that accurate. Stella is superficial/Love fashion and kind , clover is superficial and boycrazy, clohé was superficial and dramatique, cordelia was snobish and delicate. And each show had a really superficial character to contrast the character and make a point bewteen fasion love and vanity : Mandy, Chimera, Mitzi, Tweevil Twins etc...
Hi can you link me the papers? 😊
Hello! They're all listed at 21:08. I had them stored already, so I don't have live links to them, but they will show up if you look them up on Scholar. 😊
Thank you so much I saw your video like 4 times and I always missed it
I am suprised that you did NOT touch on Winx being thinner than Barbie's of 1959 to 2015 I mean I love Winx girls being fashion skecth like look but it would be cool if we see some fat characters
honestly, the only way i try to look like the winx is the long hair lmao
I am half white and latina and have wide nose and bigger
After watching your video I’m sure you are a Turkish girl lmao your accent sounds gorgeous btw
17:29 I see nothing wrong with these dolls
That early 2000s quality 👌👌👌I miss them so much 🥺
the desenitization argument has never held watter. look at any study of thhat theory and it never actually hold that exposure to violant media caused a person to be violent. you always have evendence of violent behavior before the exposure to siad media.
I am a transgender woman but I don’t want to look like them. But i will say Winx has saved my life a few times.
As you mentioned Barbie... I seem to remember that someone made somewhere a evolution of Barbie. A hulking, roided up female brute, who wields a shotgun, breaks bones as bountyhunter/mercenary/enforcer in the Congo and who goes on a rampage trough her town looking for a former friend who told her secret crush lies about her. She is called Barboss and her drunk partner, a sniper and explosives specialist is called Kendoom. They both fight against evil and Tiffaniras forces of preppy beauty-mutants, who wants to collect peoples money to fund her expensive beauty surgerys and her coke parties.
Has this ever existed or did I imagine hose things???