there's a youtuber named Marsh who started with the first game published back in the 80s. he's almost at the year 2000. poor guy has suffered for our enlightenment
Damn, I was -just- rewatching your worst and best ending videos as soon as I saw Max was doing digital devil saga. Thank you both for being absolute great content creators.
I was gonna suggest the Persona 2 Duology, but damn that's a deep well. There's a lot to dig into with Strange Journey, especially with the different endings.
@@jyojitsukikage4508 While Persona in general had a Good Piece of Discussion regarding the General Consciousness but goddamn did i will be lying if the only thing that i remember from the Duology is Tatsuya's Suffering and Hitler.
While Redux has a shiny new lick of paint and some minor balance patches, the overall original themes are done dirty in Redux. Also all the characters were made younger, making them seem more immature in their decisions rather than backed by a life lived.
Damn, your wife has good taste bro Also, I love that you're doing more in SMT stuff. One of my all-time favorite game series Edit: I'd recommend either Nocturne or Strange Journey next. For me, Nocturne was what opened my eyes to the whole series (like a lot of people in the US, I imagine), and even though it hasn't aged perfectly, it's still good
I think Roalnd said it best in the 2nd game. The thing about Karma is that it goes around around and around till eventually it bites you in the ass. What we put out into the world is what we get back. The Avatar Tuner games were also the first Megaten Games I ever played. Has been a favorite of mine since.
Small detail that is often overlooked, the term for stone in referring to the petrified people in DDS2, in Japanese, is the same term as Salt stone, AKA Rock Salt. It's a small Sodom and Gomora reference.
At the beginning, when you asked what should you cover, I immediately thought "You'd enjoy DDS!" So I was happily surprised that that was the game you went with for this episode. Nocturne and Strange Journey are equally worth going for next, imo.
Props to your wife for recommending DDS, personal favorite of mine and something I recommend to just about everyone. It's one of the two games that really sparked my interest in Hinduism and Buddhism and helped me to form my own personal understanding and philosophy of how to live my life. The other game that got me to look into Hinduism/Buddhism was The Journeyman Project 3, btw. Substantially less depth, but an interesting look at the basic ideas of Buddism and the Samsara that might get you interested in learning more.
As a Hindu born, your analysis is spot on (and I learnt so much more) Hindu myth/philosophy is are criminally overlooked in general media and games. DDS is a rare game that uses it and does it brilliantly. I highly recommend reading/watching Ramayana or Mahabharata. Ramayana has an anime adaption with amazing Hindi voice acting.
My favourite SMT spin-off (including Persona, Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, Majin Tensei, Last Bible), and second fav game in franchise, only behind Strange Journey. This game NEED remaster !!!
(SPOILERS) One of my favorite story twists/elements was how AI Serph was a good person and AI Heat was a villain, while in the real world Serph was manipulating Sera and Heat was trying to protect Sera from him. I'm sure that concept has been done hundreds of times before, but seeing the reveal in the second game after going through the first game's journey really stuck with me. Humans are limited to their own perspective of events and unfortunately it's incredibly difficult for us to determine who is on our side and who is using us. Great video as always!
If the may rumor is true, they're bringing more Shin Megami Tensei games to the current systems and SMTV will be on Xbox and Ps5, I actually had to put down SMTV because of how horrendous it looks and runs on Switch.
Btw if you liked DDS's depth, I can't recommend its novel, Quantum Devil Saga, enough. One of the writers of the game had to stop her work in it very early on because of health issues apparently, but she later wrote QDS, which both fleshes out things already shown in the game incredibly and also has its own differences, most of which make the background story insanely better and a lot of it is because of ONE character: Shin Minase. In the game his role is given to Sheffield, who dies and only is confronted as a ghost, but Shin is an incredible antagonist and he's alive for the present events in QDS. He acts like he's superior to the Embryon, but he's a designer child, he was basically created as a trophy for his parents, this adds so much more to his "people are just tools" mentality.
Also! For which Megami Tensei you should do next either Nocturne or Strange Journey definitely! Strange Journey is more obvious with its appeal but Nocturne is the most consistent game with its story, themes, use of abstract real-world parallels and tone overall, its story is just overall more overlooked because it's subtle and doesn't spell every single detail out but it's the best imo, both have the best character writing for their alignment systems though
man i really LOVE the PS2 SMT games, these days it feels like Atlus wants to forget about these titles in pursuit of making Persona the most profitable game. its all about the money.
The trope of fighting God to prove one's worth has been done to the point of parody in games - it's so obviously there to justify a climactic final battle. But I always felt like it worked well in DDS because of the context of the story. Given that the inciting incident was Sera's sadness and disillusionment being communicated to God, it makes sense that a display of effort, determination, self-sacrifice and hope would move the needle in the other direction. That's my reading at least.
I would love to hear your analysis on Strange Journey and Strange Journey Redux. A lot of good things to dig into in that entry in the franchise. Humans. Nature. and the primordial mother.
DDS is such a cool series, it's really disappointing it hasn't had a remastered port like Nocturne got. usually when recommending SMT games i suggest that people start with earlier titles just because of game mechanics. P5 has a lot more flair and is easier to play in some ways than P1 & 2, or even P3 for instance. if you're interested in deep stories more than anything, id go for Strange Journey next. it's not as deep as DDS, but it was a really exciting play for me at the time it released and i still remember it very fondly.
ah Digital Devil Saga, one of my favorite games and among the most overlooked titles in the SMT series, glad to see it covered. Ideas for other SMT titles to be covered: - Persona 2 Innocent Sin & Eternal Punishment (it's a multifaceted take on the old coming of age story) - SMT 3 (Nocturne) or 4 (ultimatum of conflicting philosophies on what the world ought to be based upon)
I would recommend you look into Quantum Devil Saga, a light novel series which is the true "complete" version of DDS' plot, granted that most of the books are presently untranslated. DDS was originally intended to be mostly written by Yu Godai, but she was forced to leave production before the plot was fully complete due to illness, and so longstanding MegaTen staff members like Kazuma Kaneko stepped in and filled in the rest. What we got in DDS is the complete story of the Junkyard, but ultimately only the broad stokes of Yu Godai's original intent for the real world, with much of the narrative connective tissue missing. There's a lot of details in DDS which are just sort of _there_ and unexplained or otherwise don't make complete sense, such as Angel being intersex and Sera's mother (as you touch on in the video) which are much more fleshed out in the QDS novels. There's also even more philosophical navel-gazing. It's a good series, with my one grievance being that Godai is a fuckin' fujoshi and it shows. Although frankly speaking Nocturne will probably be more up your alley when you get down to brass tacks, due to its plot being centered on the pursuit of rather extreme ideological strains, I second the numerous voices encouraging you to play SMT Strange Journey next. But remember, play the original game first, not Redux. Redux is an entirely different experience. Granted, the original Strange Journey might just kick your ass, but it's worth it. We shall see. Devil Survivor, Nocturne, SMTIV... all good choices following that. But let's stick to Strange Journey for now.
Yeah DDS is the one SMT game I recommend to people who wanna start somewhere good in the franchise. Its just.... great. Both the story and the gameplay is solid and the music man, the music, chef kiss.
Thank you so much for playing my second favorite game of all time, after FF9. The growth from data on a computer to being one with god is such a transcendent and powerful evolution that it gave me an understanding and greater care for existence. Everything is important from the smallest insect to the greatest god, we are all one. The next game I suggest is SMT 3 or Strange Journey; Redux. I recommend watching 1 and 2 first.
I think you should do the Raidou duology next. They may not be as lore heavy, but they're still fun to dabble around considering their surprising link to SMT as a whole and Persona, being like the 'bridge' for them.
Cannot empathize more on the challenge of which SMT game to start with. They are all godly. I personally suggest playing SMT2. It may be old and pretty infuriating at times, but I think it is the best at introducing the recurring concepts of the series. But really, all of them are fantastic and ocean deep in lore, references to culture, religion and mythology, etc. Only thing I would be wary about is playing 4 or 5 too early, as I think the conflict in those is better appreciated after playing more of the older ones
I pretty much love everything about this game - the cell shading presentation, the amazing OST, the characters and their struggles, the slick customization system, etc.
I think this game was a near-perfect match for your style of content, Max! While I recognize and agree with the many recommendations for Strange Journey, I personally would REALLY like to hear your thoughts on Devil Survivor: Overclocked.
It would be cool to see SMT 4 and Apocalypse looked at. I think they should be packaged in one video, because Apocalypse feels more or less like an answer to SMT 4. But, as others have said, it's best if you look at SMT 1 or 2 first.
"Deeper than Persona?" My good man, more than half of the games in the whole SMT franchise are deeper than that. Especially if we're talking about the newer Persona titles...
your analysis has convinced me to try out digital devil saga. I recommend giving Devil Survivor Overclocked a try! It's pretty friendly to newcomers (just don't neglect your strength), and has quite a few fascinating endings (which are easy to achieve thanks to new game+ turning the game into a cakewalk). Looking forward to more of your work!
Another lovely analysis, I do enjoy the story of DDS! I was expecting more references with Brahman but I do like the info on Hinduism I didn't know that it had a concept that paralleled Buddhism's nirvana. The idea of accepting everything in both physical and spiritual sounds quite elucidating! Now the SMT game that I would like to suggest for philosophical analysis is Devil Survivor due to how the story centers around more Western religious concepts while having the characters develop as they try to survive the crisis at hand.
Hinduism goes very deep my friend. We hindus follow tha Sanatan Dharm Or the one that don't have any beginning nor end. Buddhism is not actually a different religion, it's just that west are incapable of understanding the concepts of School Of Thoughts. Buddhism or Bodhi dharm according to first few students of Buddha. Moksha is taking the extreme way of meditation and self control to open your upper most chakra(wheel or the junction of nerves), from where Kundalini which is not an physical thing, it is an astral fluid that surrounds our astral form which is strengthened as we mediate and severe our ties with the material world. Hope that like these concept, please read Vedanta written by Adi Shankaraachaary who has written the atma-brahman concept, that we have a fragment of the brahman thus we are all equal in his eyes ( both creator's and Death's eyes).
@@bearberserkerDon't worry there is no another spelling it is just that english is not that good to write hindi Or especially sanskrit, in English there is very few vowels to match the notes that our mouth, 'a' = अ 'aa'= आ, where अ comes behind the end of very word, you can observe yourself like saying WATER you have a 'a' vowel sound. धर्म in English is Dharma in writing but Dharm in saying. Similarly, कर्म in English is written Karma but actually pronounced Karm. This shows how much English is not that good of a communication language that people think it is. No offense though but this is truth.
When they mentioned Moksha, I immediately thought of Ai: The Somnium Files since that term comes up a lot in the sequel. It's really interesting how many of these Asian games can share religious culture and ideas like that.
Nocturne is good not only as a game still, but I think about its story fairly often. It has me thinking about what kind of world I would like to see. The minimalist style of storytelling really works for this game too.
Loved that you read the concept of atma-brahman, please read Adi shankaraachaary's Vedanta which though not emotionally philosophical but has a lot of philosophies which inspired great scientists like Niel Bohr and Einstein.
I still need to get around to playing DDS (I have the games on PS2), but I wanted to mention that the Neutral ending from the first ever SMT game (SNES) is one that some folks look over, while it's the most logically sane conclusion (if there were a truly Universal force watching over us, it'd want us to make our own choices and not be forced to pick from a forced false dichotomy. Good taste in media as usual Max.
This is perhaps the best DDS video I've ever seen. I highly recommend SMT IV next. The whole Law Vs Chaos concept is deeply fascinated and rooted in gnostic philosophy, is it better to renounce free will and live in peace and order or live in a free world where violence dictates how much you can push your freedom? What would it be? Homo homini Deus or Homo homini lupus?
I would love to see you analize SMT 4 and 4 Apocalypse, and Soul Hackers. I love your videos but also if you can make longer breakdowns or story explained in full of these games, that would be fantastic
Ah yes… The Warriors meets The Matrix and Dark City but through a Japanese Lens!!! There’s definitely a case for this series to be remade/remastered if Atlus going about the whole “Remaster for Current Gen train”. Not just because of how great the story is (despite some stilted wacky dialogue in DDS1) but because it’s a series that NEEDS to be experienced at least once in life! Sure, it’s not as flashy (and patronizing) as P5 or as nuanced as Nocturne/SMT4, but DAMN is it such a wonderful, intuitive, and disturbing ride to go through! Edit: PS. The OST SLAPS just like any proper Atlus game oughta and THEN SOME! Muladhara, Boss Theme, and some others really sell the atmosphere and tone of the game WELL!
Wonderful video as always. Since you said you were a gnostic (and for your tendencie to love deep and profound stories) I HEAVILY recommand you reading Eden it's an endless world. It's a SF manga in 18 volumes that is terrifyingly relevant in our current societies with references to gnostics myths. Plus the art is gorgeous and the concept extremely well done.
I got to agree with many people here, Strange Journey is a game you will probably enjoy (it also has many science fiction references). The gameplay can be rough, I personaly like Devil Survivor 1 more... but it doesn't have a great breath of references.
The DDS duology was my introduction to SMT as a whole. I loved it so much that i pre-ordered Persona 3 special edition. Boy the games became like crack to me. The games soundtrack (especially the intro song "Alive") turned me into a huge fan of Shoji Meguro and Yumi Kawamura. The stories were truly something else.
Same here. Without digital devil saga I wouldn’t have realized how awesome smt was. Like strange journey or persona itself. Heck smt is why I love rpg to this day
Great video. I entered into SMT by playing SMTV and you got me more interested in paying the older ones. Also, I noticed you used music from Chained Echoes, which is a great game too btw.
I'd love to see you do Nocturne next as it's a very unconventional story and really leans into the "you'll have to piece this plot together" vibes kind of akin to how the Souls franchise handles it's lore. It's a very atmospheric title and I personally was grasped from word go as I explored the overworld.
Bravo! Thanks for covering two of my favorite games of all time, and drawing out their philosophical and religious significance. I'd suggest either Nocturne (Nietzsche, Gnosticism, Book of Revelation), Strange Journey, or Devil Survivor 1. I found these to be the most interesting on a philosophical level.
First time in any review / retrospective video I’ve ever been captivated by the non-spoiler section’s story. I usually skip to hear about the combat lol also, the art style for this game is so unique, that “dead behind the eyes” look should be a main staple in SMT, and I could tell it was in Nocturne before they remastered it and changed everything
Soul Hackers is a damn good game. Not the crap sequel though. The original. Oh, and Digital Devil Saga is honestly really good. I liked it a lot. But yeah, you'd need to get both games to fully enjoy or yeah, you're screwing yourself over. Oh, did you know there's a novel adaptation for DDS? Nice vid though. I think you're also the first person I've seen who talked about this from the Hindu perspective of the mythology. Cool analysis.
Nice! I've never gotten into the Shin Megami Tensei franchise for the same reasons, but I'm glad to have a good summary of the ethos. I thought that the idea of a simulation transcending into reality is a particularly cool thought experiment.
Isn't SMT already deeper than Persona? I mean, while Persona talks about human and social issues with others and themselves and the way we affect our social environment. SMT talks about human nature and its purpose itself, and the power of the ideas and philosophy to build a world after the former it's dying. Nonetheless, both of them, with Digital Devil Saga too, are gnosticism made videogame. They are based on esoteric current way of thought. With elements from mythology, magic and traditional philosophy mixed with a lot of modern streams of thoughts like existencialism, as a response to the core essentialism present in typical alignments of the franchise. Most of adventure videogames, RPGs and JRPGs overall, have magical and spiritual elements. But not much of them treats these topic with the protagonism and depth Megami Tensei does most of the times. That's what makes this occultism-focused franchise so special. Symbolism even more graphical.
Great video thank you for helping me understand some of the game themes. I think that your next game should be based about what you like the most about this game. Gameplay - SMT: Nocturne is the most similar. Story - Persona 2 Innocent sin and eternal punishment have the same writer. (You don't have to but you should play persona 1 before.) Also the optional bosses from DDS2 (The archangels) were sent to DDS2 World after the evvent of SMT 2, so if you want to know more about that play smt 1 and 2 but they are kinda outdated.
Angel being intersex also reflects the unity of male and female. Angel had not taken the path of enlightenment however, so they could not achieve godhood.
I am so fucking happy rn...def have a special attachment to this one out of all SMT games. Like you said, may not be the 'best' but it def might be the deepest...
IMO the best mainline game that puts everything what SMT is about , it's Strange Journey. Solid Character, Good Story , Alignments Matter, Choices matter and you have some notable differences between Route and Great Dungeons. I think Redux is fine to play , but if you want the original vision DS version is the way. Devil Survivor Overclocked is my favorite tho. Think the story is great. But i would recommend you to play Shin Megami Tensei V as one of your first SMT games .... Playing after other games makes SMTV looks terrible in comparasion.
I think one that stood out the most is how hopeful the ending is. Let's be real, it's an SMT game, played like an SMT game, and as bleak as an SMT game, yet it has such a bright ending and that makes it even more satisfying
@@DragonKingX78 There's nothing I want more than that. I love all SMT games and the spin-offs, but I found DDS at the perfect time in my life for it to become irreplaceable
DDS is my favorite SMT title. I bought it on PS3 when rumors about the store would shutting down were going around so I finally got it. Had no knowledge of the game and never touched a persona game the only SMT game I played was Devil Survivor so I thought I'd give it a try and don't regret it at all. Honestly wish I had got this game on ps2
I love DDS so much. I want a remastered pack ( I want both in one package because they have that thing games did in the era of memory cards where if you had a save from the previous games where you did a specific thing you got something in a different game)
0:37 Catherine is atlus, but is it considered to be in the SMT universe? I didn't think it was, but I would be stoked if it is. Catherine Full Body is one of my favorite games.
there's a youtuber named Marsh who started with the first game published back in the 80s. he's almost at the year 2000. poor guy has suffered for our enlightenment
Marsh getting traction as a SMT youtuber makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. He's a great story teller, too.
That man has played last Bible so we won’t have to, truly suffering for us
Sub to Marsh!
Don’t forget that Marsh had also played the best SMT game ever: Jack Bros.
This guy’s shitposts are of impeccable quality
Oh yeah it's finally here! Digital Devil Saga deserves more love
You do great work Max!
Oh no way it’s Tony4-*Beyond good and evil*…
I mean… Tony4You. Big fan
Tony is also a based Max fan!?!?!? Let's goooooooo
Damn, I was -just- rewatching your worst and best ending videos as soon as I saw Max was doing digital devil saga.
Thank you both for being absolute great content creators.
overrated ah game
DDS duology is absolutely phenomenal glad to see people talk about these games!
DDS being so overlooked is tragic. Genuinely amazing game.
I agree, very underrated game.
Especially the ost, this game has one of the most badass soundtracks
I will say DDS1 story is really good but in the context of it being a prequel to DDS2. if it was stand alone though it would be just alright.
If you release game in same month with Resident Evil 4, Shadow of Colossus and God Of War, no wonder this game was overshadowed.
@@brub1738 that's why it's not stand alone lol
Strange Journey is definitely worth doing. It also deals with AI and science fiction while also flavoured with themes of morality and sin.
this
Arhtur is the best robot/AI in megaten imo.
I was gonna suggest the Persona 2 Duology, but damn that's a deep well. There's a lot to dig into with Strange Journey, especially with the different endings.
@@jyojitsukikage4508 While Persona in general had a Good Piece of Discussion regarding the General Consciousness but goddamn did i will be lying if the only thing that i remember from the Duology is Tatsuya's Suffering and Hitler.
While Redux has a shiny new lick of paint and some minor balance patches, the overall original themes are done dirty in Redux.
Also all the characters were made younger, making them seem more immature in their decisions rather than backed by a life lived.
Damn, your wife has good taste bro
Also, I love that you're doing more in SMT stuff. One of my all-time favorite game series
Edit: I'd recommend either Nocturne or Strange Journey next. For me, Nocturne was what opened my eyes to the whole series (like a lot of people in the US, I imagine), and even though it hasn't aged perfectly, it's still good
Yeah, really do enjoy this game series.
She do lol, great games
I think Roalnd said it best in the 2nd game. The thing about Karma is that it goes around around and around till eventually it bites you in the ass. What we put out into the world is what we get back. The Avatar Tuner games were also the first Megaten Games I ever played. Has been a favorite of mine since.
DDS1+2 are still my favorites of the Megaten games.
Small detail that is often overlooked, the term for stone in referring to the petrified people in DDS2, in Japanese, is the same term as Salt stone, AKA Rock Salt. It's a small Sodom and Gomora reference.
At the beginning, when you asked what should you cover, I immediately thought "You'd enjoy DDS!" So I was happily surprised that that was the game you went with for this episode. Nocturne and Strange Journey are equally worth going for next, imo.
I agree, both those games would make good choices for the next vids.
Props to your wife for recommending DDS, personal favorite of mine and something I recommend to just about everyone. It's one of the two games that really sparked my interest in Hinduism and Buddhism and helped me to form my own personal understanding and philosophy of how to live my life.
The other game that got me to look into Hinduism/Buddhism was The Journeyman Project 3, btw. Substantially less depth, but an interesting look at the basic ideas of Buddism and the Samsara that might get you interested in learning more.
Yes, love the DDS games.
"deeper than persona" 💀
he’s not wrong
As a Hindu born, your analysis is spot on (and I learnt so much more)
Hindu myth/philosophy is are criminally overlooked in general media and games. DDS is a rare game that uses it and does it brilliantly.
I highly recommend reading/watching Ramayana or Mahabharata. Ramayana has an anime adaption with amazing Hindi voice acting.
You should check out Strange Journey, I think you’ll find the themes of that game to be extremely interesting on an existential level
My favourite SMT spin-off (including Persona, Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, Majin Tensei, Last Bible), and second fav game in franchise, only behind Strange Journey. This game NEED remaster !!!
I agree, needs... no deserves a remaster.
(SPOILERS)
One of my favorite story twists/elements was how AI Serph was a good person and AI Heat was a villain, while in the real world Serph was manipulating Sera and Heat was trying to protect Sera from him. I'm sure that concept has been done hundreds of times before, but seeing the reveal in the second game after going through the first game's journey really stuck with me. Humans are limited to their own perspective of events and unfortunately it's incredibly difficult for us to determine who is on our side and who is using us.
Great video as always!
It goes to show that despite our best intentions, we cannot control how others perceive us.
Considering the two princes story from the first one, the reveal was legit. Heat rules
And then we get Serph and Heat confrontation in the EGG, and Heat is slapped in the face witht that reality check.
@dadan dan best part is that it is somewhat alluded throughout the game. Why would heat be so angry and jaded. Something was awry
It goes to convey the message that people are inherently good or bad, they grow up fueling certain attitudes untill the end up choosing a stand.
No way! You play as Max Derrat from RUclips before receiving a mark in Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga
Honestly SMT is the type of series where jumping in based on your gut usually can't hurt
They're all fairly unique from each other
They are unique, would be nice if all the games were on current consoles/systems.
@@DragonKingX78 most of them can be emulated without any issues on an android phone. thats what ive been doing. best part is its all free
If the may rumor is true, they're bringing more Shin Megami Tensei games to the current systems and SMTV will be on Xbox and Ps5, I actually had to put down SMTV because of how horrendous it looks and runs on Switch.
@@wodensthrone5215 SMT5 better be on PS4 as well.
@DragonKingX78 Nah, we really need to start leaving old technology behind, it's hindering the full potential of newer tech.
DDS is my favorite SMT series so far! Strange Journey is up there too but oh man, I found both the DDS games really hit me deep.
Yes both DDS games are awesome.
Instant like! I never finshed DDS but its setting and themes are extremely fascinating.
Btw if you liked DDS's depth, I can't recommend its novel, Quantum Devil Saga, enough. One of the writers of the game had to stop her work in it very early on because of health issues apparently, but she later wrote QDS, which both fleshes out things already shown in the game incredibly and also has its own differences, most of which make the background story insanely better and a lot of it is because of ONE character: Shin Minase. In the game his role is given to Sheffield, who dies and only is confronted as a ghost, but Shin is an incredible antagonist and he's alive for the present events in QDS. He acts like he's superior to the Embryon, but he's a designer child, he was basically created as a trophy for his parents, this adds so much more to his "people are just tools" mentality.
Also! For which Megami Tensei you should do next either Nocturne or Strange Journey definitely! Strange Journey is more obvious with its appeal but Nocturne is the most consistent game with its story, themes, use of abstract real-world parallels and tone overall, its story is just overall more overlooked because it's subtle and doesn't spell every single detail out but it's the best imo, both have the best character writing for their alignment systems though
man i really LOVE the PS2 SMT games, these days it feels like Atlus wants to forget about these titles in pursuit of making Persona the most profitable game.
its all about the money.
Atlus wants to forget about everything that is not Persona 3+. Older games be damned.
Thank you, I finished this game years ago but now I fully understand it.
The trope of fighting God to prove one's worth has been done to the point of parody in games - it's so obviously there to justify a climactic final battle.
But I always felt like it worked well in DDS because of the context of the story. Given that the inciting incident was Sera's sadness and disillusionment being communicated to God, it makes sense that a display of effort, determination, self-sacrifice and hope would move the needle in the other direction.
That's my reading at least.
I would love to hear your analysis on Strange Journey and Strange Journey Redux. A lot of good things to dig into in that entry in the franchise. Humans. Nature. and the primordial mother.
I second that. Especially with the hidden boss in Sector Grus
The DDS duology are some of the most underrated games of all time
Very underrated.
Smt is funny for its preference toward the neutral path. It crosses through so many games that the player should strive for neutrality
Your wife has great taste.
DDS is such a cool series, it's really disappointing it hasn't had a remastered port like Nocturne got.
usually when recommending SMT games i suggest that people start with earlier titles just because of game mechanics. P5 has a lot more flair and is easier to play in some ways than P1 & 2, or even P3 for instance. if you're interested in deep stories more than anything, id go for Strange Journey next. it's not as deep as DDS, but it was a really exciting play for me at the time it released and i still remember it very fondly.
I agree, they should have remastered them by now....especially since Nocturne has the same engine and DDS already has voice acting.
ah Digital Devil Saga, one of my favorite games and among the most overlooked titles in the SMT series, glad to see it covered.
Ideas for other SMT titles to be covered:
- Persona 2 Innocent Sin & Eternal Punishment (it's a multifaceted take on the old coming of age story)
- SMT 3 (Nocturne) or 4 (ultimatum of conflicting philosophies on what the world ought to be based upon)
I agree, the DDS games are a favorite and very overlooked.
I would recommend you look into Quantum Devil Saga, a light novel series which is the true "complete" version of DDS' plot, granted that most of the books are presently untranslated. DDS was originally intended to be mostly written by Yu Godai, but she was forced to leave production before the plot was fully complete due to illness, and so longstanding MegaTen staff members like Kazuma Kaneko stepped in and filled in the rest. What we got in DDS is the complete story of the Junkyard, but ultimately only the broad stokes of Yu Godai's original intent for the real world, with much of the narrative connective tissue missing. There's a lot of details in DDS which are just sort of _there_ and unexplained or otherwise don't make complete sense, such as Angel being intersex and Sera's mother (as you touch on in the video) which are much more fleshed out in the QDS novels. There's also even more philosophical navel-gazing. It's a good series, with my one grievance being that Godai is a fuckin' fujoshi and it shows.
Although frankly speaking Nocturne will probably be more up your alley when you get down to brass tacks, due to its plot being centered on the pursuit of rather extreme ideological strains, I second the numerous voices encouraging you to play SMT Strange Journey next. But remember, play the original game first, not Redux. Redux is an entirely different experience. Granted, the original Strange Journey might just kick your ass, but it's worth it. We shall see.
Devil Survivor, Nocturne, SMTIV... all good choices following that. But let's stick to Strange Journey for now.
Really hope they finish translating QDS. Only reason I havent read then yet is because I ccant read them all in one go
SMT is full of interesting stuff and I'm glad to see such a cool game from the series being covered here. Game really deserves more love.
I agree, this games series really deserves more love.
Yeah DDS is the one SMT game I recommend to people who wanna start somewhere good in the franchise. Its just.... great. Both the story and the gameplay is solid and the music man, the music, chef kiss.
They are awesome games.
Thank you so much for playing my second favorite game of all time, after FF9. The growth from data on a computer to being one with god is such a transcendent and powerful evolution that it gave me an understanding and greater care for existence. Everything is important from the smallest insect to the greatest god, we are all one.
The next game I suggest is SMT 3 or Strange Journey; Redux. I recommend watching 1 and 2 first.
I think you should do the Raidou duology next. They may not be as lore heavy, but they're still fun to dabble around considering their surprising link to SMT as a whole and Persona, being like the 'bridge' for them.
Oh right also forgot to mention, the ending of DDS makes sense too with the name this game had in Japan. "Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner"
Cannot empathize more on the challenge of which SMT game to start with. They are all godly.
I personally suggest playing SMT2. It may be old and pretty infuriating at times, but I think it is the best at introducing the recurring concepts of the series.
But really, all of them are fantastic and ocean deep in lore, references to culture, religion and mythology, etc. Only thing I would be wary about is playing 4 or 5 too early, as I think the conflict in those is better appreciated after playing more of the older ones
I pretty much love everything about this game - the cell shading presentation, the amazing OST, the characters and their struggles, the slick customization system, etc.
Yeah really wish we got more games in this series. I love the combat/skill system.
The writer for Digital Devil Saga is Satomi Tadashi, and he's also the person who did the writing for Persona 1 and 2, as well as The Caligula Effect.
I think this game was a near-perfect match for your style of content, Max!
While I recognize and agree with the many recommendations for Strange Journey, I personally would REALLY like to hear your thoughts on Devil Survivor: Overclocked.
It would be cool to see SMT 4 and Apocalypse looked at. I think they should be packaged in one video, because Apocalypse feels more or less like an answer to SMT 4. But, as others have said, it's best if you look at SMT 1 or 2 first.
"Deeper than Persona?"
My good man, more than half of the games in the whole SMT franchise are deeper than that. Especially if we're talking about the newer Persona titles...
your analysis has convinced me to try out digital devil saga. I recommend giving Devil Survivor Overclocked a try! It's pretty friendly to newcomers (just don't neglect your strength), and has quite a few fascinating endings (which are easy to achieve thanks to new game+ turning the game into a cakewalk).
Looking forward to more of your work!
DDS is like 10 times deeper than persona. A true masterpiece. Also, Bat sucks.
I agree, DDS rules, and Bat sucks.
Also, Ananta sucks
Yes. One of my favorite SMT games. Enjoyable gameplay, just the right amount of challenge, and my favorite art direction in the franchise.
It's still my favorite.
Kazuma Kaneko is an amazing artist he did the character designs for Persona 2 and his demon designs are cool.
Another lovely analysis, I do enjoy the story of DDS! I was expecting more references with Brahman but I do like the info on Hinduism I didn't know that it had a concept that paralleled Buddhism's nirvana. The idea of accepting everything in both physical and spiritual sounds quite elucidating! Now the SMT game that I would like to suggest for philosophical analysis is Devil Survivor due to how the story centers around more Western religious concepts while having the characters develop as they try to survive the crisis at hand.
Hinduism goes very deep my friend. We hindus follow tha Sanatan Dharm Or the one that don't have any beginning nor end. Buddhism is not actually a different religion, it's just that west are incapable of understanding the concepts of School Of Thoughts. Buddhism or Bodhi dharm according to first few students of Buddha.
Moksha is taking the extreme way of meditation and self control to open your upper most chakra(wheel or the junction of nerves), from where Kundalini which is not an physical thing, it is an astral fluid that surrounds our astral form which is strengthened as we mediate and severe our ties with the material world.
Hope that like these concept, please read Vedanta written by Adi Shankaraachaary who has written the atma-brahman concept, that we have a fragment of the brahman thus we are all equal in his eyes ( both creator's and Death's eyes).
@@troyeteryx4921 That's intriguing! Also, is the term Dharm or Dharma?
@@bearberserker Yes, Chinese can't pronounce sanskrit properly therefore words like Dharma and Sansara turned into Dhama and samasara.
@@troyeteryx4921 Okay, it's just your previous comment wrote Sanatan Dharm and I was curious if that is another spelling for Dharma.
@@bearberserkerDon't worry there is no another spelling it is just that english is not that good to write hindi Or especially sanskrit, in English there is very few vowels to match the notes that our mouth, 'a' = अ 'aa'= आ, where अ comes behind the end of very word, you can observe yourself like saying WATER you have a 'a' vowel sound.
धर्म in English is Dharma in writing but Dharm in saying. Similarly, कर्म in English is written Karma but actually pronounced Karm. This shows how much English is not that good of a communication language that people think it is. No offense though but this is truth.
When they mentioned Moksha, I immediately thought of Ai: The Somnium Files since that term comes up a lot in the sequel. It's really interesting how many of these Asian games can share religious culture and ideas like that.
Nocturne is good not only as a game still, but I think about its story fairly often. It has me thinking about what kind of world I would like to see.
The minimalist style of storytelling really works for this game too.
Yeah, works for that game.
Loved that you read the concept of atma-brahman, please read Adi shankaraachaary's Vedanta which though not emotionally philosophical but has a lot of philosophies which inspired great scientists like Niel Bohr and Einstein.
I still need to get around to playing DDS (I have the games on PS2), but I wanted to mention that the Neutral ending from the first ever SMT game (SNES) is one that some folks look over, while it's the most logically sane conclusion (if there were a truly Universal force watching over us, it'd want us to make our own choices and not be forced to pick from a forced false dichotomy. Good taste in media as usual Max.
Another gosh darn banger! That you for introducing me to this stuff. Day four of asking for you to talk about “On The Silver Globe”.
This is perhaps the best DDS video I've ever seen. I highly recommend SMT IV next.
The whole Law Vs Chaos concept is deeply fascinated and rooted in gnostic philosophy, is it better to renounce free will and live in peace and order or live in a free world where violence dictates how much you can push your freedom? What would it be? Homo homini Deus or Homo homini lupus?
I would love to see you analize SMT 4 and 4 Apocalypse, and Soul Hackers.
I love your videos but also if you can make longer breakdowns or story explained in full of these games, that would be fantastic
Ah yes… The Warriors meets The Matrix and Dark City but through a Japanese Lens!!!
There’s definitely a case for this series to be remade/remastered if Atlus going about the whole “Remaster for Current Gen train”.
Not just because of how great the story is (despite some stilted wacky dialogue in DDS1) but because it’s a series that NEEDS to be experienced at least once in life! Sure, it’s not as flashy (and patronizing) as P5 or as nuanced as Nocturne/SMT4, but DAMN is it such a wonderful, intuitive, and disturbing ride to go through!
Edit:
PS. The OST SLAPS just like any proper Atlus game oughta and THEN SOME! Muladhara, Boss Theme, and some others really sell the atmosphere and tone of the game WELL!
I just want HD remasters of both games as one set for PS4, PS5, Switch, PC, etc.
Bruh, the dream came true. The DDS is one hell of a lore/myth pit. The video is rad, thank you very much!
Wonderful video as always. Since you said you were a gnostic (and for your tendencie to love deep and profound stories) I HEAVILY recommand you reading Eden it's an endless world.
It's a SF manga in 18 volumes that is terrifyingly relevant in our current societies with references to gnostics myths.
Plus the art is gorgeous and the concept extremely well done.
I got to agree with many people here, Strange Journey is a game you will probably enjoy (it also has many science fiction references). The gameplay can be rough, I personaly like Devil Survivor 1 more... but it doesn't have a great breath of references.
The DDS duology was my introduction to SMT as a whole. I loved it so much that i pre-ordered Persona 3 special edition. Boy the games became like crack to me. The games soundtrack (especially the intro song "Alive") turned me into a huge fan of Shoji Meguro and Yumi Kawamura. The stories were truly something else.
Same here. Without digital devil saga I wouldn’t have realized how awesome smt was. Like strange journey or persona itself. Heck smt is why I love rpg to this day
DDS 1 & 2 is such a great game. It’s a personal favorite of mine.
Still my favorite of the SMT(and related) games.
I really like the SMT franchise, my first one was Devil Summoner
My fist was Persona 1 and Nocturne was my first mainline game.
Glad you liked Digital Devil Saga, it's one of the best Atlus games imo and deserves more love♥
Deserves a lot more love....it will be a miracle if they even acknowledge it during the SMT30th anniversary.
Great video. I entered into SMT by playing SMTV and you got me more interested in paying the older ones. Also, I noticed you used music from Chained Echoes, which is a great game too btw.
I would like to play SMT5...maybe one day if it gets ported to PS4.
@@DragonKingX78 Let's just hope they do.
I'd love to see you do Nocturne next as it's a very unconventional story and really leans into the "you'll have to piece this plot together" vibes kind of akin to how the Souls franchise handles it's lore. It's a very atmospheric title and I personally was grasped from word go as I explored the overworld.
It's a good game, still prefer DDS.
So glad you covered the this. DDS is my favorite in the SMT and criminally underrated.
Very underrated.
Bravo! Thanks for covering two of my favorite games of all time, and drawing out their philosophical and religious significance.
I'd suggest either Nocturne (Nietzsche, Gnosticism, Book of Revelation), Strange Journey, or Devil Survivor 1. I found these to be the most interesting on a philosophical level.
First time in any review / retrospective video I’ve ever been captivated by the non-spoiler section’s story. I usually skip to hear about the combat lol also, the art style for this game is so unique, that “dead behind the eyes” look should be a main staple in SMT, and I could tell it was in Nocturne before they remastered it and changed everything
You can thank Kazuma Kaneko for the awesome character design.
just got these on my steam deck can’t wait to enter this rich world
So have you played them yet?
@@DragonKingX78 yeah i started them they run amazing and look great upscaled on pcxs2 gameplay is fun and interesting
Every smt game is amazing and its my all time fav game series and I personally highly suggest you get into it
Soul Hackers is a damn good game.
Not the crap sequel though. The original.
Oh, and Digital Devil Saga is honestly really good. I liked it a lot.
But yeah, you'd need to get both games to fully enjoy or yeah, you're screwing yourself over.
Oh, did you know there's a novel adaptation for DDS?
Nice vid though. I think you're also the first person I've seen who talked about this from the Hindu perspective of the mythology. Cool analysis.
Would love to have a remaster of both titles in one. Such a great story.
Nice! I've never gotten into the Shin Megami Tensei franchise for the same reasons, but I'm glad to have a good summary of the ethos. I thought that the idea of a simulation transcending into reality is a particularly cool thought experiment.
OMG please more of this franchise my fren
Devil survivor overclocked is a must play. Do that next 🙏
Angel is a hermaphrodite by biological definitions, not intersex. Or at least I've understood they're not the same thing.
DDS, strange journey and Devil Survivor have the best stories.
Isn't SMT already deeper than Persona? I mean, while Persona talks about human and social issues with others and themselves and the way we affect our social environment.
SMT talks about human nature and its purpose itself, and the power of the ideas and philosophy to build a world after the former it's dying.
Nonetheless, both of them, with Digital Devil Saga too, are gnosticism made videogame. They are based on esoteric current way of thought. With elements from mythology, magic and traditional philosophy mixed with a lot of modern streams of thoughts like existencialism, as a response to the core essentialism present in typical alignments of the franchise.
Most of adventure videogames, RPGs and JRPGs overall, have magical and spiritual elements. But not much of them treats these topic with the protagonism and depth Megami Tensei does most of the times. That's what makes this occultism-focused franchise so special.
Symbolism even more graphical.
I have only played one SMT game personally, Devil Survivor 2, I would like to see an analysis of SMT 3: Nocturne, SMT 5, and SMT: Strange Journey.
Great video thank you for helping me understand some of the game themes.
I think that your next game should be based about what you like the most about this game.
Gameplay - SMT: Nocturne is the most similar.
Story - Persona 2 Innocent sin and eternal punishment have the same writer. (You don't have to but you should play persona 1 before.)
Also the optional bosses from DDS2 (The archangels) were sent to DDS2 World after the evvent of SMT 2, so if you want to know more about that play smt 1 and 2 but they are kinda outdated.
Angel being intersex also reflects the unity of male and female. Angel had not taken the path of enlightenment however, so they could not achieve godhood.
I am so fucking happy rn...def have a special attachment to this one out of all SMT games. Like you said, may not be the 'best' but it def might be the deepest...
It's the best
It's the best.
It’s the best
@@t_bone2145 ong
I KNEW IT WOULD BE DIGITAL DEVIL SAGA
you and Tony4u
Love the DDS games.
The fact your lovely lady is a huge gamer is an absolute win! 🥇 keep up the content my man
Do Rond- jkjk, Strange Journey (DS) and SMT IV are probably the choices I'll give, those are the SMT that I usually recommend
IMO the best mainline game that puts everything what SMT is about , it's Strange Journey. Solid Character, Good Story , Alignments Matter, Choices matter and you have some notable differences between Route and Great Dungeons. I think Redux is fine to play , but if you want the original vision DS version is the way.
Devil Survivor Overclocked is my favorite tho. Think the story is great.
But i would recommend you to play Shin Megami Tensei V as one of your first SMT games .... Playing after other games makes SMTV looks terrible in comparasion.
It doesn't have cute waifus so no one cares, too bad since it is my favorite game from all SMT franchises.
I agree, great games, though could use more cute waifus.
@@DragonKingX78 nah argilla is all I need lol
a wife that loves shin megami tensei, what a fortunate man you are
the ones i got to know/date are like the f monsters of that game
DDS?!?!?HELL YEAH
YESS I’ve been waiting for this day. I LOVE the lore and details and implications everywhere in digital devil saga. Best smt game
I agree, best SMT games.
I think one that stood out the most is how hopeful the ending is. Let's be real, it's an SMT game, played like an SMT game, and as bleak as an SMT game, yet it has such a bright ending and that makes it even more satisfying
Far more positive then most endings for a Megaten game.
The DDS duology will always be my favorite RPGs. I've been thinking about them for over a decade
Still waiting for HD remasters for those games.....maybe one day.
@@DragonKingX78 There's nothing I want more than that. I love all SMT games and the spin-offs, but I found DDS at the perfect time in my life for it to become irreplaceable
Ugh- we get it- ur in love lol
But at least she has great taste in video games and has prompted u to make some great content
Max, you inspire me to be a better version of myself
DDS is my favorite SMT title. I bought it on PS3 when rumors about the store would shutting down were going around so I finally got it. Had no knowledge of the game and never touched a persona game the only SMT game I played was Devil Survivor so I thought I'd give it a try and don't regret it at all. Honestly wish I had got this game on ps2
I wish they were on PS5, PS5, Switch, etc.
I love DDS so much. I want a remastered pack ( I want both in one package because they have that thing games did in the era of memory cards where if you had a save from the previous games where you did a specific thing you got something in a different game)
That would be cool.
Very nice video. It's been about 13 years since I've played DDS. Thanks for the refresher and elucidation.
It would be nice if Atlus would let us play these games on currents consoles/systems.
I would recommend Devil Survivor Overclocked it’s a great game and I like the characters and endings.
Finally a Digital Devil Saga video
It has been a while.
OMG finally Digital Devil Saga is getting some attention !! A big thankyou to Mrs Derrat from me
It's about time.
Please play SMT 4, or try out SMT 3 Nocturne. Imo they have good internal depth to ask the question of what is paradise/ freedom?
Happy this game is getting more recognition
Both games need more love along with most of the rest of the franchise.
Check out Devil Survivor 1 and 2. Great games that explore what happens when humans deal with disaster and impeding doom.
0:37 Catherine is atlus, but is it considered to be in the SMT universe? I didn't think it was, but I would be stoked if it is. Catherine Full Body is one of my favorite games.