Oh yeah almost certainly! But I wanted to find the minimum possible number, not the "minimum achievable while playing the game like a sane person" haha. I will say that the things I learned in this video will change how I play a standard game start and probably make it look like the start you're envisioning. That said, when I checked after I finished recording it was only about 2.5 hours so it wasn't that bad. If I wasn't patient I wouldn't be playing W&R
I start similarly to this. I start with similar buildings except I use one apartment, import citizens into that one building (110) and those citizens build the kindergarten, waste stand, culture, school, sport, small fire station, monuments later, and eventually the headquarters and factory - buildings in that order. And I micromanage the building and the workers just like you do. Hint: I use the 'other buildings' button a lot - tell your citizens where to go, then set that other buildings button on your residential buildings to 0% and your citizens will go to every other X% building first and then only to go 'other buildings' if your set buildings are full. Then you don't need to worry about whether they're balanced or not unless you see complaints (another reason to only start with one building - only one building to check your citizen's opinions on). You can easily build buildings this way, or just set the bus stop as 0% instead. When people start appearing in other buildings or your bus stop, you know that you have surplus people. Easy. You found out that the cheapest priced vehicle isn't necessarily the ACTUAL cheapest, and that's actually the case with most of the vehicles. You need to weight up carry capacity with both price and time, because firstly, as you also discovered, fuel needs to be taken into consideration and the small truck would have cost you a heap of fuel - a lot more fuel than a larger one would have, even being that close to the border. And had you bought the larger covered hull that would have worked for both store and factory - so being stingy there also cost you money. Generally the middle group ends up being the better value. The other consideration is time. Stuff gets more expensive over time, so the longer you take to build and get your workers making money, the more expensive stuff is - particularly if you have citizens who are using stuff, so pushing up the price for stuff they use. And you definitely don't want to wait a year and a half before they move in! I use ONE 110 people building - the best quality one, and I fill that with 40 experts and the rest normal workers. And that's what I start with and these citizens build everything from then on except the absolute starting necessities - shop, electricity, heating and waste, and clinic. I use this building instead of lots of small ones because it actually works out CHEAPER in the end - one building and everything else is cheaper - sewage and water only make one occasional trip instead of many, and if you're smart you only need two waste bins (one large and one small), and I use the free dumps too. My particular minimalistic rule is that those people are the ONLY people I ever import, they start with absolute minimum and I don't use border workers from that point on. My whole republic is thus related to them - it's a 110 people gene pool from then on 🤣. Yes, it's slow, but very rewarding, because you have to manage those people VERY well to keep them happy and reproducing, with enough education, and working efficiently. It requires some micromanagement at the beginning, even with the university research (you need to build the university pretty quickly to ensure the maintenance of expert workers) switch between teaching and researching, but it's doable for those with patience. To me this is the real challenge of the game. Hard mode isn't really that hard if you just keep inviting more citizens whenever you need them (build a factory, invite more workers) - kind of feels like cheating really - you can always get out of trouble if you can always just cheatingly invite more workers every time you expand or when something goes wrong, instead of optimising those you already have. The hard part is keeping the ones you already have working optimally, making them efficient and working with them to build your republic. Hard mode is actually fairly easy if you can simply keep inviting more people 🤣. And it's unrealistic too.
Thanks for the insight! Ironically I played a game start very similar to this using the lessons from this video, but starting with one 110 person flat instead of the super cheap ones. But then just as I got my second residential building set up, I got a 7.9 scale earthquake which knocked the first one down, leaving me with an 18 person republic haha. So be careful with that! All this discussion of whether small vehicles are efficient has got me thinking, so look out for test video on that at some point!
@@OptingOut Hehe, that'd hurt! I don't reckon you could recover from 18 people 🤣. I play hard mode with the exception that I turn disasters off. I like the building and management challenge, but I don't like random destruction of my work.🙂 PS: I'd be interested to see a good test on which vehicles are the most cost effective for early game. I'm betting it's the middle ground ones. Although speed has a case too. I buy the biggest and slowest 35k dump truck for getting gravel from the border, but I use the faster trucks for delivering it to the worksites.
You only need $0. No loans. No mods. Briefly enable cheats to get rid of all your cash, then turn them back off. Then, buy spent nuclear fuel until you get enough for a couple garbage trucks (I bought 37 casks at the start), use those to import hazmat and dump it into free dumps until you can afford to construct real dumps. Then, several kilometers away to avoid the pollution, you can build a small town with room & infrastructure for about 1100 citizens, then start a clothing factory, then a fabric factory, then you're off to the races and just playing a normal game. You should be able to bring in citizens as soon as the next spring rolls along. Just keep in mind things will be slooooow. I played until the start of 1968 and still struggled to keep my population at 1k -- an early small headquarters for keeping education up is critical. I had 700 immigrants (starting), 1731 births, 1668 deaths, and 118 escapes, and a population of 973 when I stopped playing. Maybe moving the clothing factory a little further would have helped with my death rate a little, too. Now that 1.0 is out with new buildings, I might try again and see if I can do better. I imported $8,035 in nuclear waste and $1,131,61 in hazmat over the whole time, but maybe less is necessary.
I also had some self-imposed rules to not use farming / gravel mining / etc, anything where vehicles just churn out 'free money'. Only trash allowed. Breaking that rule would make things much easier.
Huh yeah I hadn't thought of nuclear waste! I thought of hazardous waste, but only as far as having an incinerator as the starting industry, I didn't think of just storing it. It's an interesting way to go. I avoided the incinerator because of the space limitations making such a polluting industry non-viable, and also because I wanted to stick with the "traditional" progression of construction offices -> starter town -> productive industry and avoid cheese as much as possible. How long ago did you do this? I can't find the patch notes, but I could swear at some point they did something to stop nuclear waste import being very lucrative, and I know they dramatically nerfed how much hazardous waste you could import before the price adjustment makes it unworkable.
@@OptingOut I did it december 2023. I took a look today and the prices still seem about the same. The nuclear waste & hazmat import is indeed not very lucrative, but you can just.. keep doing it over time. Limiting it to 2 garbage trucks running keeps the supply&demand effect on price steady. You really can't do more than get a starter town off the ground, but that's all you need!
@@OptingOut Something else I forgot to mention: Different custom houses have different ratios of mixed waste mixed into their hazmat. You need at least 25% hazmat coming out, and I've seen it range from 15 - 30%. The only way to know, as far as I can tell, is to just start importing & dumping. So, you might want to 'scout' the map with cheats on, then start the same map over again when you know what ratio you can get.
@@WildlyStapled Oooh that explains so much! In my playalong tutorial series the incoming hazardous waste was 20% hazardous, but it didn't have any metal, aluminium, or construction waste. I had remembered it having 10% of everything before, but I guess that was probably just the roll rather than my assumption of an update. The "no hard waste" stuff in the playalong was still like 1400 roubles per load before the demand price depression, probably because there wasn't any valuable scrap pushing the price up. It's a mixed blessing for the tutorial because I was anticipating being able to use the incinerator output for a lesson on waste separation later in the series, but all I got out was ash haha
Yeah like Mikey-zx4vn said! I also switch off edge snapping with F4 and use the grid snapping for my parallel roads, in case you want to do that. The gui for these options is in the bottom right.
Nice idea for a video! However, it doesn't seem worth using such small vehicles to carry items for construction, it appears the difference in buying price is made up fairly quick in fuel consumption
Haha yeah later in the video I replaced the tiny open hull with a bigger one because it was so slow I was going to end up having to maintain vehicles before I had profits coming in. I'm not sure what way it would go if looking at fuel consumption though. Smaller vehicles mean more trips, but generally the smaller vehicles have lower fuel consumption too so it might still work out better. Maybe I could do a video testing that out.
Imo it is worth it when you have more construction offices. Many buildings require 1-2 tons of materials. I do have dedicated CO set with small dumpers, trucks, road cranes and microbuses used only for substations, small road segments etc. Saves fuel, road space and number of CO tasks they have to chose between. Vehicle repair cost is also proportional to initial vehicle cost, so small trucks are cheaper in that regard.
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I think you could build a functioning republic in under 400,000 rubles that wouldn't take 5 hours to make just enough prifit to count
Oh yeah almost certainly! But I wanted to find the minimum possible number, not the "minimum achievable while playing the game like a sane person" haha.
I will say that the things I learned in this video will change how I play a standard game start and probably make it look like the start you're envisioning.
That said, when I checked after I finished recording it was only about 2.5 hours so it wasn't that bad. If I wasn't patient I wouldn't be playing W&R
I start similarly to this. I start with similar buildings except I use one apartment, import citizens into that one building (110) and those citizens build the kindergarten, waste stand, culture, school, sport, small fire station, monuments later, and eventually the headquarters and factory - buildings in that order. And I micromanage the building and the workers just like you do. Hint: I use the 'other buildings' button a lot - tell your citizens where to go, then set that other buildings button on your residential buildings to 0% and your citizens will go to every other X% building first and then only to go 'other buildings' if your set buildings are full. Then you don't need to worry about whether they're balanced or not unless you see complaints (another reason to only start with one building - only one building to check your citizen's opinions on). You can easily build buildings this way, or just set the bus stop as 0% instead. When people start appearing in other buildings or your bus stop, you know that you have surplus people. Easy.
You found out that the cheapest priced vehicle isn't necessarily the ACTUAL cheapest, and that's actually the case with most of the vehicles. You need to weight up carry capacity with both price and time, because firstly, as you also discovered, fuel needs to be taken into consideration and the small truck would have cost you a heap of fuel - a lot more fuel than a larger one would have, even being that close to the border. And had you bought the larger covered hull that would have worked for both store and factory - so being stingy there also cost you money. Generally the middle group ends up being the better value. The other consideration is time. Stuff gets more expensive over time, so the longer you take to build and get your workers making money, the more expensive stuff is - particularly if you have citizens who are using stuff, so pushing up the price for stuff they use. And you definitely don't want to wait a year and a half before they move in! I use ONE 110 people building - the best quality one, and I fill that with 40 experts and the rest normal workers. And that's what I start with and these citizens build everything from then on except the absolute starting necessities - shop, electricity, heating and waste, and clinic. I use this building instead of lots of small ones because it actually works out CHEAPER in the end - one building and everything else is cheaper - sewage and water only make one occasional trip instead of many, and if you're smart you only need two waste bins (one large and one small), and I use the free dumps too.
My particular minimalistic rule is that those people are the ONLY people I ever import, they start with absolute minimum and I don't use border workers from that point on. My whole republic is thus related to them - it's a 110 people gene pool from then on 🤣. Yes, it's slow, but very rewarding, because you have to manage those people VERY well to keep them happy and reproducing, with enough education, and working efficiently. It requires some micromanagement at the beginning, even with the university research (you need to build the university pretty quickly to ensure the maintenance of expert workers) switch between teaching and researching, but it's doable for those with patience. To me this is the real challenge of the game. Hard mode isn't really that hard if you just keep inviting more citizens whenever you need them (build a factory, invite more workers) - kind of feels like cheating really - you can always get out of trouble if you can always just cheatingly invite more workers every time you expand or when something goes wrong, instead of optimising those you already have. The hard part is keeping the ones you already have working optimally, making them efficient and working with them to build your republic. Hard mode is actually fairly easy if you can simply keep inviting more people 🤣. And it's unrealistic too.
Thanks for the insight! Ironically I played a game start very similar to this using the lessons from this video, but starting with one 110 person flat instead of the super cheap ones. But then just as I got my second residential building set up, I got a 7.9 scale earthquake which knocked the first one down, leaving me with an 18 person republic haha. So be careful with that!
All this discussion of whether small vehicles are efficient has got me thinking, so look out for test video on that at some point!
@@OptingOut Hehe, that'd hurt! I don't reckon you could recover from 18 people 🤣. I play hard mode with the exception that I turn disasters off. I like the building and management challenge, but I don't like random destruction of my work.🙂
PS: I'd be interested to see a good test on which vehicles are the most cost effective for early game. I'm betting it's the middle ground ones. Although speed has a case too. I buy the biggest and slowest 35k dump truck for getting gravel from the border, but I use the faster trucks for delivering it to the worksites.
You only need $0. No loans. No mods.
Briefly enable cheats to get rid of all your cash, then turn them back off. Then, buy spent nuclear fuel until you get enough for a couple garbage trucks (I bought 37 casks at the start), use those to import hazmat and dump it into free dumps until you can afford to construct real dumps. Then, several kilometers away to avoid the pollution, you can build a small town with room & infrastructure for about 1100 citizens, then start a clothing factory, then a fabric factory, then you're off to the races and just playing a normal game. You should be able to bring in citizens as soon as the next spring rolls along. Just keep in mind things will be slooooow. I played until the start of 1968 and still struggled to keep my population at 1k -- an early small headquarters for keeping education up is critical. I had 700 immigrants (starting), 1731 births, 1668 deaths, and 118 escapes, and a population of 973 when I stopped playing. Maybe moving the clothing factory a little further would have helped with my death rate a little, too.
Now that 1.0 is out with new buildings, I might try again and see if I can do better. I imported $8,035 in nuclear waste and $1,131,61 in hazmat over the whole time, but maybe less is necessary.
I also had some self-imposed rules to not use farming / gravel mining / etc, anything where vehicles just churn out 'free money'. Only trash allowed. Breaking that rule would make things much easier.
Huh yeah I hadn't thought of nuclear waste! I thought of hazardous waste, but only as far as having an incinerator as the starting industry, I didn't think of just storing it. It's an interesting way to go.
I avoided the incinerator because of the space limitations making such a polluting industry non-viable, and also because I wanted to stick with the "traditional" progression of construction offices -> starter town -> productive industry and avoid cheese as much as possible.
How long ago did you do this? I can't find the patch notes, but I could swear at some point they did something to stop nuclear waste import being very lucrative, and I know they dramatically nerfed how much hazardous waste you could import before the price adjustment makes it unworkable.
@@OptingOut I did it december 2023. I took a look today and the prices still seem about the same. The nuclear waste & hazmat import is indeed not very lucrative, but you can just.. keep doing it over time.
Limiting it to 2 garbage trucks running keeps the supply&demand effect on price steady. You really can't do more than get a starter town off the ground, but that's all you need!
@@OptingOut Something else I forgot to mention: Different custom houses have different ratios of mixed waste mixed into their hazmat. You need at least 25% hazmat coming out, and I've seen it range from 15 - 30%. The only way to know, as far as I can tell, is to just start importing & dumping. So, you might want to 'scout' the map with cheats on, then start the same map over again when you know what ratio you can get.
@@WildlyStapled Oooh that explains so much! In my playalong tutorial series the incoming hazardous waste was 20% hazardous, but it didn't have any metal, aluminium, or construction waste. I had remembered it having 10% of everything before, but I guess that was probably just the roll rather than my assumption of an update.
The "no hard waste" stuff in the playalong was still like 1400 roubles per load before the demand price depression, probably because there wasn't any valuable scrap pushing the price up. It's a mixed blessing for the tutorial because I was anticipating being able to use the incinerator output for a lesson on waste separation later in the series, but all I got out was ash haha
You seem to have some sort of grid locking thingy on. Is it a mod or is it somewhere in the setting? If it's a mod, I'm curious what's its name :)
Tap F1 once to enable the grid, tap it again to enable locking to grid :)
@@Mikey-xz4vn awesome, I shall try that. Thanks!
Yeah like Mikey-zx4vn said! I also switch off edge snapping with F4 and use the grid snapping for my parallel roads, in case you want to do that.
The gui for these options is in the bottom right.
Nice idea for a video!
However, it doesn't seem worth using such small vehicles to carry items for construction, it appears the difference in buying price is made up fairly quick in fuel consumption
Haha yeah later in the video I replaced the tiny open hull with a bigger one because it was so slow I was going to end up having to maintain vehicles before I had profits coming in.
I'm not sure what way it would go if looking at fuel consumption though. Smaller vehicles mean more trips, but generally the smaller vehicles have lower fuel consumption too so it might still work out better. Maybe I could do a video testing that out.
Imo it is worth it when you have more construction offices. Many buildings require 1-2 tons of materials. I do have dedicated CO set with small dumpers, trucks, road cranes and microbuses used only for substations, small road segments etc. Saves fuel, road space and number of CO tasks they have to chose between.
Vehicle repair cost is also proportional to initial vehicle cost, so small trucks are cheaper in that regard.