Real comment this time bc the video deserves it: thoughts on DS3 and covenants. I try not to let my nostalgia take over, but I’ve been playing more DS3 lately and yeah it’s still great. The combat is the perfect mix of kinetic and methodical, and the unspoken champion is its well designed stamina bar that seems perfectly in tune with the number of actions you need to take to deplete a phantom’s HP bar. It’s a flawed game for sure, in fact going back has highlighted that the balance of weapons is really not great (for invaders). Embered health and super high mobility/good defensive options forces reds to always think about maximizing damage and range, and unfortunately many weapons simply do not meet that demand. (Obviously ER has this same issue, but it is linked primarily to variables like Rune Arcs and OL phantoms instead of an Ember, which was the fundamental opt-in/requirement for PvP.) Furthermore, I like that projectiles are much more limited in DS3, but the friction of spellcasting is much too high - most notably they seem out of line with the otherwise well balanced stamina economy, especially when casting with a hybrid weapon-catalyst. In MANY, many ways I think ER actually HAS improved on stuff from DS3, at least in those respects. But despite my complaints, I think DS3 really hit the nail on the head when it comes to melee fundamentals in a way that is hard to replicate, which you already have heard from me a thousand times. It’s a game I really really enjoy even to this day, and I don’t think that’ll ever change. But it also proves that covenants won’t fix ER, because for me covenants aren’t the draw of DS3 - *DS3* is. The combat. The atmosphere. The fun weapons with their own identities and combat strategies. The tight bond of the single player and multiplayer ecosystems. The weird, quaint, but heartwarming respect I get from other players who are just happy to do PvP (seriously, I think I got more bows and happy gestures from random hosts/phantoms in a couple days of DS3 invading than two years of ER invading). Where covenants DO play a big role in prior games is in the feeling of online community, through both coinvasions and all other forms of multiplayer interaction. Some of this may not return in ER, especially with the more limited player cap. What would be much more impactful for ER would be changes to the Taunter’s Tongue to encourage its use (I’ve always wanted it to improve rune/item drops from enemies to encourage players to use it when going through the legacy dungeons). As a system to improve activity, covenants are laid on top of the game’s fundamentals, but changing the underlying components like Furlcalling Fingers/TT will always be far more game-changing. After this long spiel, I still think I see more value than you in DS3’s covenants, but I see their benefits as more ephemeral than most people do. I think it’s core to the soul of a game to have one or two “hubs” for community interaction and multiplayer. Invading in Elden Ring is SUCH a lonely and solitary experience compared to DS3 - something we tend to forget the longer we spend away from Lothric - and it’s not just the much maligned player count issue. Having a place where you can count on finding people actually interested in PvP, a place where you can count on a coinvader at least showing up at all, maybe even a place where people can start forming rivalries and friendships and just feeling invested at all in ER’s PvP commmunity - that’s what would be most game-changing about covenants. All that said, I haven’t touched ER in a month or two, and after all I’ve struggled to enjoy the game, I don’t think I’m really the target demographic anymore. But I would still very much enjoy covenants if only to know there’s a place to interact with other players in a way that feels more impactful than just: fighting the same Kevins with the same OL phantoms in the same open fields, and leaving the experience feeling nothing in particular. I think that I’d enjoy even the most barebones of covenants, and it would be even nicer for all the new players onboarded by ER who are currently afloat on Reddit or Discord trying to find some way to connect to other players, and wishing there was a better way to do that in-game. That’s the core component missing from ER’s multiplayer identity, and covenants might go some way to addressing that. (P.S. I’d also hope for something better than DS3 covenants, but honestly I think people are just afraid to ask for more. Because, frankly, expecting even the bare minimum from ER’s multiplayer systems seems like a doomed effort from the start. If we’re going full wishlist mode tho, the possibilities do open up - but they get increasingly unlikely too)
Also side note, the fights from 12:30 onwards had me at the edge of my seat, especially against that TT duo in Leyndell. Great job on those, they were nail biters and you showed off some very clean play
😮💨 I have nothing really to add here other than I do hope DLC can add some elements that bring more people back. May not be everyone’s game, but it would be great for community (including you Fel) to be enriched by some returns.
I feel what you're saying about covenants providing a sense of community among invaders, and you're right, invading in Elden Ring IS a very lonely experience. While the near and far invasion search is crucial for keeping activity alive, I also think it contributes to this feeling of isolation, because you're constantly getting shipped off to some unknown location instead of the invasion area you are currently sitting in. I will say I'm still quite baffled by how Fromsoft took steps towards building out real invader hubs like Volcano Manor and Mohgwyn Palace before just gutting the covenant aspects of those locations. I do think places like Volcano Manor would go a long ways to actually being a hub for invaders instead of just the grocery store at which invaders swing by to pick up their infinite fingers. As always, very much appreciate your thoughts and responses on these videos especially when you don't quite agree with all my points, you always manage to point out a blind spot or point of view that I hadn't quite considered. I feel very fortunate to have someone who puts as much thought and care in their words in my comments section
I general I dislike the idea of achievements in games, but yeah, I don't want to force people with an offline connection to grind through 5 billion Silver Knights again lmao
one idea I had for improving Covenent in a future game was to give each a unique passive buff for both pve and pvp. In pve or when you the host, the buff can be active while using an ember or ruin arc like item. In pvp the buff is automatic so long as your perform the task of your Covenent, ie: if u rosaria's finger, buff only when invading, and if u sunbro, buff only when summoned for help, not when doing somthing else like invading as a sunbro. These Covenent buffs essentially act as greatrunes, but u can use them in pvp even when not the host, (mind u the 25% flat health buff is common for all regardless of covenent when u use the ember like item, only the host can use this, no 25% health bonus for summons and invaders) Some unique buffs could be: 1. Sunbros get a healing buff to their miracles and flasks, they get a passive healing aura that heals companions when close (note does not heal the user, just nearby allies, like that one dress in elden ring) 2. Invader covenet gets a bootleg bloodborne rally mechanic, since they always getting ganked, I thought this would be fitting for them 3. Mad phantoms could get health regen for every kill, useful since they can kill enemies in the world unlike typical invaders (i would personally completely rework them so that there is actually an incentive to summon them) Another system id like is a sin system, so when u do somthing cringe like invade someone successfully or kill innocent merchants or perform tasks thats against your Covenents goals, like invading as a sunbro, u rack up sin that paints u as a target to the adjudicators (darkmoon Covenent), repeated offense will also lower ur rank in the covenant making some offerings void. Another thing would be the reward scheme for the covenant. Make it a shop with differnt teirs, each teir have new sets of items like reskin armor, weapons, new ash of wars, spell varients and rare consumables, even spirit ashes, all paid with the Covenent item that way people can just get what to want and ignore what they dont like. This will make them more commited to the Covenent and the get worthwhile rewards for their efforts rather than somthing random like in ds games
A fellow Onryō, nice. Mine's "Inaba Onryō Yōtō", and as the name would suggest, it's a very edgy bleed build. He's supposed to be a disciple of Okina, who died in dishonor, and because of that wanders around as a ghost seeking a proper death. (Yōtō is often used to describe a cursed blade) Anyway, I love the idea of a catacombs/cave covenant, just to spice those places up a bit
Been playing Fromsoft since dark soul 1. I am a pve player, i co-op the game with friend and we make roleplay/ themed team together. The only game i actually went and do actual PVP / invasion was DS3 solely because of the Covenant. I havent touch elden ring PVP much yet and the reason is for me there is nothing in it for me, i get invaded and enjoy getting invade but i dont invade myself cause there is nothing to strive for, no acheivement, no reward. I can go into arena for PVP match even. Covenant gave reward for pvp instead of just exp. It was not perfect but it was a Gateway that made me enjoy it and i end up doing 'arena' Pvp at Pontiff. Covenant wont stagnate the game it will bring PVE player to test PVP out of nescessity or desire. Worked so good for me i cant be the only one. I Agree on one thign however, IF they make covenant, make them change mechanic of the game like Spear of The church did or the Rat Covenant. Put one that reward helping PVE player boss sure why not. Give every kind of player something thats always good. I dont dismiss your points, just throwing my perspective as a PVE player, i enjoyed the video.
cant watch rn but thats an absolutely goated thumbnail. Edit: now watched and can say that old thing good, new thing bad with certainty. Thank you for reaffirming this mindset :)
Thank you Rofo. Surprise surprise I agree with everything you’ve said. Also. I really really really want Gravelording back. Maybe make it a catacombs only thing to actually add challenge to those areas. Great video Rofo, and I WILL be stealing the Onryo title for a character in the future
Steal away, I share these builds so that people might take inspiration and create their own weirdo builds and then hopefully one while running through a thousand Kevins while invading I'll encounter of one you beautiful folk and your strange beautiful builds
Thank you Rotor the Gyrocopter. More flavor from covenants would be great. Both from a roleplay and gameplay perspective. Fromsoft is clearly capable of creating covenants such as the gravelords or rats that have fun, weird multiplayer mechanics. I'd love to see more in that vein for over different colored invaders.
We'll see about whether that's something that's important to Fromsoft, it has been nearly a decade since we got really in depth or game changing covenants, but I'm holding out hope tbh
Thank you ROBO The GRUYERE for not baiting us with stupid titles. Covenants are not a total fix for the PvP. I am tired of people presenting it as if they are. Lack of covenants is a gripe I have. I couldn't disagree more with you about DS3 covenants when it comes to functionality. They majorly impacted the MP imo. I think the functionality of covenants is important. Similar to solo host invasions, it encourages people to interact with the multiplayer. It creates more invaders and people who enjoy PvP who otherwise would not have tried it. It is important that there are various introductions. I think my first DS3 invasions were as an Aldrich Faithful in 2017. This definitely did have a direct impact on my enjoyment of the game. That being said, making covenants strong on the RP side of things is something very desirable. I do see that people want that. It's something I see with new invaders especially. I would love to see that. You are right. The player cap will almost certainly not increase. Without a player cap increase, it will severely limit the impact of covenants. Even if both these things happened (as unlikely as that is), there are still fundamental challenges to the MP system and mechanics that make invading quite frustrating. The poise thing... the powerstancing thing... you are so right. So right on both of those. I feel like the feedback of "poise is turned off" and "powerstancing should return" really got to them. I would love to talk about that more at length. I have a lot to say on that topic. Thanks for the great video!
I definitely didn't give DS3 covenants enough credit for what they did do well with onboarding new players to invasions, but I just think they wouldn't fit into a game without a substantial player cap like Elden Ring. I would absolutely love another covenant that actually encourages new and inexperienced players to participate in PVP though
Hey man i just found your channel and i really like your videos so good work. Ive been wanting to get into souls pvp and invasions and have determined that the most active game seems to be elden ring. The problem is i really dont enjoy invading in elden ring because of the 2 player requirement for the enemy. Do you have any tips or builds that could help me get started and maybe later down the road I’ll be able to learn more and make my own builds. Thanks and keep on making videos.
My thing as a mostly offline player who got into souls in like 2020/2021 is that covenants are just long ass farms locking cool spells and Items I want in DS3. DS1 is fine as drop rates are not the worst in that game.
i only clicked because you coded the phantom thumbnail in description respect for using a talisman to look like host in invasions, i wish we could do this with no talisman, this would actually save the whole pvp, probably adding it in dlc
Thank you for the good thumbnail. Thanks four thumbnail. Thnx 4 thicks. The thicks appreciate your thumb nail care, because you have filed this one. Your profile picture led me to believe that you might not have them pampered. In fact, I thought they would be shattered after countless hours of raw fingered parries. Ever never thought about your nails until you pointed them out, actually. I'm pleasantly surprised. Thanks for coming to the appointment earlier than expected. Come again!
ROBO The GRUYERE does it again. I disagree with you vehemently about the Ds3 covenants but we’ve already discussed this. I don’t really think Covenants have been a roleplaying consideration since DS2, like you said, and DS3s were more functional in that they got more players together into one place at one time. Seeing as how we have a 4 player limit, they wouldn’t really accomplish much of that anyway. Besides, coinvasions are as good as dead, outside of playing with your friends. And isn’t that what most of us want anyway?
Covenants like blues you never get summoned into but always have to fight as a red, or aldritch which gave the advantage of no friendly fire but your teammates were always silly goobers so it didn't help. Honestly covenants didn't add much to the game and most invasions were the same cookie cutter boring formula anyway
MIYAROFO MUSASHI 👺 Also, did we come to similar build ideas in these videos haha? I’m listening to you talk about Shura in Sekiro with the Omen Cleaver/offhand Wakizashi like “I’m just like him IRL for real 🫨.” Fortunately for me, I’m not looking for covenants to fix PvP because I don’t need PvP to be fixed. If From decides to pull out some sort of super secret plan to revamp everything and finally blow us away with a suddenly incredibly balanced and best it’s ever been system, great! But I really just want more flavor (same as you). I don’t expect it but I would like it and yea Rats 🐀/blue invader 🧢 covenant I can get behind Mr. Gruyère. Now I need to go read and engage with Fel’s dissertation, so I’ll see you there.
LMAO when your video came out I was like "oh no I just made the same video but Blue Flavored" (magic damage) I'm very much with you in the same boat as that I've come to terms with the current state of PVP, and if Fromsoft decides to throw some crazy changes our way I'm all for it but I'm also not waiting for something change before I can enjoy the game.
I think the thing what made ds3's paired weapon movesets so good, was how they were all almost completely unique. Sure you had shittier sellswords, or dancer's sellswords, but each had their own niche, dancer's being in the bin. Ds3's weapons were so memorable, with interesting movesets and properties, elden ring hasnt enough in the moveset variety and balance department.
i would like a mercy covenant like the white masks to be in the game. you invade the host and kill them, the hosts don't lose anything but gain extra red/blue flasks
Y'know what'd be cool though? A full on war between Bloody Fingers and Finger Hunters. It'd start with one Invader then another then a Hunter and so on until its a 5v5 and none of them aren't even over lvl150 so they have like actual unique builds.
Just to provide the distinction between the shura and the onryō, the main difference is the reason why each kills. An onryō kills because of a reason. They are vengeful spirits that seek to enact vengeance (usually involving copious amounts of bloodshed) to right the wrongs done to them. A shura kills without reason. A shura is actually a Japanese way of referring to Asura; power-hungry "demons" that act as a force of destruction. This is the night-and-day difference between Mizu and Shura-kiro: Mizu starts the killing as vengeance. She wants to put the only four people that resulted in her conception to the sword, because of the pain she had to go through in her life. And because she is, at least symbolically, an onryō, her vengeance is blind. Because the onryō do not just want justice, they want to be satisfied, their methods are cruel and often petty. The men that protect Fowler's castle, for example, are cut down with little regard because they are in the way of the vengeance and that is reason enough. The reason she does the unspeakable is exactly that; her victim's life is in the way of vital information for revenge, so snap goes the neck. She takes no joy in the killing. Because a ghost need not be happy, only appeased, "...only satisfied.". Sekiro in the Shura path forsakes his reason for the bloodshed. At first he had reason to kill; to protect Kuro's wellbeing. But after his father tells him "Ok new plan; take the boy, kill everyone." he faces against Emma. Emma who guides your path, aids you with the wounds you sustain, and helps stave off dragonrot, is to be put to the sword. She was one of very few true friends you make along this journey, but "The father's word is absolute", and so you cut her down like a dog. And then it hits you. You liked it. You found it satisfying to see the life drain from her eyes, fun even. And when you see Isshin ready his blade, you are just buzzing to put him to the sword, too. And it's even more fun. You didn't even do it because he's in the way, or because you hate him, you just wanted to kill him to see if you could. Then your father shows up and you let him live, for a while. But you've never killed a great shinobi before... That's also rather tragic that you probably let Kuro live because killing him wouldn't be fun enough for you. An onryō is driven by malice and hatred; they believe their murder is justified. A shura is driven by joy, they do not need a reason for their murder other than "It's fun" and it makes them stronger (see Sekiro reaching for the black mortal blade as well as the red one). That's also what makes Shura so much more terrifying; you can reason with onryō as long as you are not the mark and stop being an obstruction. You can't reason with Shura; once it sets its eyes on you, it'll kill you with a glee and not a drop of hatred for you in their heart. These two could not be different, so I think using magic damage instead of fire adds an extra dimension to this build (Yeah, it's a whole tome passage; I'm a sucker for feudal Japan and winged hussars and instead of writing my book, I'm procrastinating harder than George R.R Martin at the moment, so bear with.) Know the difference, Grofold the Yharwyrm, and great video as always. Your lore-inspired buildcrafting is the reason I love your videos and the game. Edit: I had to retype some of the text that was originally italics because YT just straight up deleted those parts.
Even the mouthbreathers of DS3 were miles above what is present in ER. Just a simple co-invader already adds much needed variance and chaos to these experiences yes also when they turn on you, though in this game even a single other red is rare. I seriously believe that if they don't add covenants or at least raise player limit in the DLC to 5 this multiplayer will turn into a ghost-town way sooner than DS3 did. The arena didn't patch things as they hoped for because at its core invasions are what everyone comes to these games for, you can do do isolated PvP everywhere else.
The hole in my heart isn't covenant shaped it's dead multiplayer in record time shaped. Elden ring having no solo host invasions and the Seamless coop mod killed any chance pvp had on pc. Soon after release i had longer searching times for invasions than Ds3 toward the tail end. Crazy having to spam search for 10 minutes straight only to end up in a 1v3 shit show invasion and then do it all again. This is what killed ER PVP for me. Covenants wont fix this even if we got them multiplayer on PC will still be on life support. I don't know how playstation is but i suspect a lot more activity and the quality of invasions is probably better too because on PC the people who aren't ganking are likely using the seamless coop mod.
Oh my god are we still parroting the same "dead game" and "multiplayer on life support" phrases from popular streamers? All of the invasions you're seeing here were collected on like a weeknight, on PC. Despite the multiple claims of Seamless Co-op "ruining" activity on PC, this has never really been the case in my experience, I've never really struggled to get invasions. Activity is plentiful at mid ranges, I'm not sure what it's like at meta but anywhere from rl40-90 is a constant stream of invasions for me. Every Fromsoft game's PVP gets claimed to be "a dead game", especially DS3. You're well within your right not to like PVP in this game which I understand, but activity isn't a real issue
I only had/have "DS3 best PVP" nostalgia because I only played it in 2020 first time, and barely got to PVP at all, really enjoying what I got just before the servers were shut down for 7 months. It's less nostalgia and more resentment.
Good Video man. I mean the varré Questline is kinda like a covenant bc mogh invented the blood travel that we know as Invasions. I like it without covenants but the rewards for killing the host are kinda bad.
Shout out to the area where you get invaded 4 different times by NPCs who have formed a covenant dedicated to invading other tarnished with the demigod whom the player can form a covenant dedicated to invading other tarnished with (it's not a covenant PVP area)
This is all true, while I would love covs, there's a couple big asterisks there obviously one being that they alone will not make this a perfect invasion game, no amount of fun player colors will reduce moonveil damage. But also, based on the very homogeneous nature of DS3 covs, even if they did implement ER covs, I doubt they would be even the slightest bit interesting. I would love a game with a bunch of distinct and nuanced covenants, but I know that that's not going to happen OR*** Maybe MAYBE we are in the timeline where Miyazaki himself reads this exact comment and decides to implement all the features I want and all my dreams come true!! (anything is possible if u believe)
I still think covenants would be an amazing addition if they change invasions a little bit and give you the option to make it more even ground. The reason I liked covenants in dark souls was because they gave a goal for people who didn’t usually play pvp and got me into pvp. But we already disagree about wanting solo invasions and power stancing because I love those. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting something old because they have some great mechanics in their old games and it’s okay for people to want that just like it’s okay for people to want change.
I think it's very reductive to say that we, the players, don't know what we want because when we do get what we want it turns out terrible (like with passive poise and powerstancing). Because we do want these things and we know they can be good, because they were implemented well before. We wanted passive poise back because it fixes issues like DS3's arrows and bolts/unreactable attacks like dagger/curved swords always staggering you no matter what. We wanted powerstancing because it's fun to use two weapons together at once, not just alternating between the two, and Dark Souls 2 did it pretty well. We want covenants back because Fromsoft has had great ideas and are often cool to be a part of (tying your build to a covenant like Darkmoons/Princess Guards, Gravelords, Rat King, Brotherhood of Blood's aesthetic rewards, Vilebloods and Executioners' adversarial relationship, etc.). The issue isn't that we don't know what we want, or that we shouldn't ask for old things. The issue is that From Software just doesn't know how to, or doesn't want to balance things properly. You could make so many changes by just editing the Regulations. You could make 2-handing way better than powerstancing. You could slow down Fallingstar Jaw's AoW so that it can't be spammed as much. You could reduce tracking on rapiers so that they don't spin 360º to hit you. You could do so much, so easily, but From doesn't want to do that. Balancing isn't easy, but it's not that damn hard to realize for instance, that 2-handing is worse than 1-handing or powerstancing by virtue of losing your offhand. Coming up with good ideas is also not easy, but it's not that hard to make covenants interesting by combining everything they made so far. Alone, their covenant mechanics kinda suck, but together they could be so, so much more. Would you not love it if entering a covenant imposed limits (can't enter this or that area), offered unique benefits and drawbacks (using x category of spells granted them a 10% damage bonus; or you had super buffed Spear of the Church stats as an invader but couldn't heal or get a coinvader), and it granted you access to specific visual and mechanical differences (Generic Buff adds fire damage if in covenant A, but magic damage if in covenant B, etc; covenant A sets your character's head permanently on fire like Harald Knights, covenant B adds blue magic floating motes around your character, etc.) The things covenants add don't have to be huge, they just have to be enough to matter and be desired. If they added a covenenant that only gave you an aura, that would be cool and serve a purpose. But if all that a covenant does is give you a staff that is inferior to every other staff on every possible build, then that covenant might as well not exist (but even then you could edit the stats such that it's actually desirable).
to get people that wouldn’t engage in online features to try it out for items locked behind covenants. Because as of now there is little to no reason to try pvp. I just wish they would introduce covenants that changes how pvp works like gravelording could be sick in Elden Ring
Covenants (the ds3 style) definitely won't fix pvp, the devs themselves need to fix pvp. This game has been given minimal balancing efforts as far as pvp, but this is not surprising with fromsoft given their history. I expect little in the way of multiplayer adjustments, which definitely could mean no covenants. I hope that if they do they add like ds1 style covenants, I think those had a significant impact on multiplayer interactions because there was different motivation for different covenant players, and some of their matchmaking ranges had variation. Gravelord and Dragon stand out the most to me because they used white sign range instead of red sign range. DS1 had its own matchmaking problems though so the covenants were by no means perfect. Weapon matchmaking screws up most of this idea though because it cuts your range down by a lot. So I think they need a different solution this time (at least if they go for the ds1 style multiplayer covenants), since ER has weapon and RL matching, there's gotta be some kind of way they can implement a covenant with a unique matchmaking feature. Heck, I think they could even make solo hosting a covenant based option instead of using the taunter's tongue. Kind of like gravelord or rat king. I also very much enjoyed old darkmoon range, as remastered darkmoon range is infinitely up like red range is. Being a counter invader was an interesting concept. Or an anti-twink. It was kinda busted how far down a darkmoon could actually go though. But in any case, maybe there's a solution none of us have thought of yet.
I don't think anyone believes this much anymore. It's been over two years, people are exhausted. And it was always part cope anyway. Like you said, the real crux was 5 or 6 player limit allowing for 3v2 or 4v2 or whatever in at least some areas. That's not happening, as far as current evidence goes. So either there's a fundamental overhaul with solo invasions tied to covenants/runes/whatever (allowing for flow of new/casual players), or there's nothing but more of the same (as in, red man comes in and walks into an elden blender). There won't be a swamp and there won't be a gank city either. And actual cool stuff like gravelording and whatnot? Yeah that was first and last seen +10 years ago. I remember wondering if they would reinvent the gravelord concept for ER, it looked like the perfect time. Man... DLC will allow us to kick people though, so... yeah, let's get those forty bucks ready. And if there's PvP stuff? Boy, twice the happy feelz then!
Most clickbaity thumbnail/title I’ve ever seen, not watching. Hehe just kidding I’m a silly lil guy. But yeah beautifully said there man. Idk about the any rune arc for us thing but another invader one would be great though the mogh one has never really been that appealing to me
You had me up until "Invaders want PVP, so why not make them invadeable at all times?" No thanks, I already get enough grace duels from all the tunters. Don't need to be hosting them myself.
I'm sure streaming the game as frequently as you do increases the number of grace goblins that you get. As someone who pretty much never streams I really don't encounter them quite as frequently, and I'd honestly prefer it if they had actual incentives to be aggressive to me rather than play extremely passively in a massive open world
Thank you Rofo! 1. for not doing a zee oh storm type thumbnail bait 2. for reminding me that Gough's "thank you" stones were so much better than ER's prattling plates (like everything else in ER, a visual, audio, and gameplay downgrade) 3. for being honest. ER is not getting covenants because it's not how ER works. Souls is dead, the fire faded, just like it told us it would. Onward we go. "stop living in the past" "you'll go hollow" HYPOCRITE!
There are 51K ppl playing Elden Ring right now on Steam alone lol I've been getting non stop invasions all week leading up to this video. You may not like Elden Ring PvP but calling it a dead game is just being willfully ignorant
@@RofoTheGyrm oh yeah, sure calling me willfully ignorant when i tried all rune level invasion in southeast asia timezone for half an hour. And can't find anyone except the same mfs over and over and calling that game alive? You're insane.
Maybe leave the build talk till the end if you can't keep it short, skipping the first 5 minutes before getting to the point of the video is a bit stupid
the 'hurrr change good' argument is at least as lazy and bad as 'no changes'. fromsoft and players need to be more analytical than that if the sub-genre is going to continue to improve.
At no point did I say that change is inherently good, just that change is the natural evolution of things and something that Fromsoft is clearly committed to. I'm just advocating for embracing that change rather than putting effort towards demanding regression
@@RofoTheGyrm Some of the changes From made in ER are obviously regressions, like player counts and covenants. If your point is you don't like the discourse around the game, then we can agree to disagree. I can't help but wonder: if people were making big detailed critiques of the pvp in the souls games like some of the videos on yt about dark souls 2, would we be playing a better version of ER now?
I would really like to see bloodbornes covenant system return. I really liked the hunter of hunters, vilebloods vs church hunters all those interactions were very fun
Thank you rofo at the gym
Real comment this time bc the video deserves it: thoughts on DS3 and covenants.
I try not to let my nostalgia take over, but I’ve been playing more DS3 lately and yeah it’s still great. The combat is the perfect mix of kinetic and methodical, and the unspoken champion is its well designed stamina bar that seems perfectly in tune with the number of actions you need to take to deplete a phantom’s HP bar.
It’s a flawed game for sure, in fact going back has highlighted that the balance of weapons is really not great (for invaders). Embered health and super high mobility/good defensive options forces reds to always think about maximizing damage and range, and unfortunately many weapons simply do not meet that demand. (Obviously ER has this same issue, but it is linked primarily to variables like Rune Arcs and OL phantoms instead of an Ember, which was the fundamental opt-in/requirement for PvP.)
Furthermore, I like that projectiles are much more limited in DS3, but the friction of spellcasting is much too high - most notably they seem out of line with the otherwise well balanced stamina economy, especially when casting with a hybrid weapon-catalyst. In MANY, many ways I think ER actually HAS improved on stuff from DS3, at least in those respects.
But despite my complaints, I think DS3 really hit the nail on the head when it comes to melee fundamentals in a way that is hard to replicate, which you already have heard from me a thousand times. It’s a game I really really enjoy even to this day, and I don’t think that’ll ever change.
But it also proves that covenants won’t fix ER, because for me covenants aren’t the draw of DS3 - *DS3* is. The combat. The atmosphere. The fun weapons with their own identities and combat strategies. The tight bond of the single player and multiplayer ecosystems. The weird, quaint, but heartwarming respect I get from other players who are just happy to do PvP (seriously, I think I got more bows and happy gestures from random hosts/phantoms in a couple days of DS3 invading than two years of ER invading).
Where covenants DO play a big role in prior games is in the feeling of online community, through both coinvasions and all other forms of multiplayer interaction. Some of this may not return in ER, especially with the more limited player cap. What would be much more impactful for ER would be changes to the Taunter’s Tongue to encourage its use (I’ve always wanted it to improve rune/item drops from enemies to encourage players to use it when going through the legacy dungeons). As a system to improve activity, covenants are laid on top of the game’s fundamentals, but changing the underlying components like Furlcalling Fingers/TT will always be far more game-changing.
After this long spiel, I still think I see more value than you in DS3’s covenants, but I see their benefits as more ephemeral than most people do. I think it’s core to the soul of a game to have one or two “hubs” for community interaction and multiplayer. Invading in Elden Ring is SUCH a lonely and solitary experience compared to DS3 - something we tend to forget the longer we spend away from Lothric - and it’s not just the much maligned player count issue. Having a place where you can count on finding people actually interested in PvP, a place where you can count on a coinvader at least showing up at all, maybe even a place where people can start forming rivalries and friendships and just feeling invested at all in ER’s PvP commmunity - that’s what would be most game-changing about covenants.
All that said, I haven’t touched ER in a month or two, and after all I’ve struggled to enjoy the game, I don’t think I’m really the target demographic anymore. But I would still very much enjoy covenants if only to know there’s a place to interact with other players in a way that feels more impactful than just: fighting the same Kevins with the same OL phantoms in the same open fields, and leaving the experience feeling nothing in particular.
I think that I’d enjoy even the most barebones of covenants, and it would be even nicer for all the new players onboarded by ER who are currently afloat on Reddit or Discord trying to find some way to connect to other players, and wishing there was a better way to do that in-game. That’s the core component missing from ER’s multiplayer identity, and covenants might go some way to addressing that.
(P.S. I’d also hope for something better than DS3 covenants, but honestly I think people are just afraid to ask for more. Because, frankly, expecting even the bare minimum from ER’s multiplayer systems seems like a doomed effort from the start. If we’re going full wishlist mode tho, the possibilities do open up - but they get increasingly unlikely too)
Also side note, the fights from 12:30 onwards had me at the edge of my seat, especially against that TT duo in Leyndell. Great job on those, they were nail biters and you showed off some very clean play
😮💨
I have nothing really to add here other than I do hope DLC can add some elements that bring more people back. May not be everyone’s game, but it would be great for community (including you Fel) to be enriched by some returns.
I wholeheartedly agree on them needing covenants but I only hope they aren’t linked to any achievements this time
I feel what you're saying about covenants providing a sense of community among invaders, and you're right, invading in Elden Ring IS a very lonely experience. While the near and far invasion search is crucial for keeping activity alive, I also think it contributes to this feeling of isolation, because you're constantly getting shipped off to some unknown location instead of the invasion area you are currently sitting in.
I will say I'm still quite baffled by how Fromsoft took steps towards building out real invader hubs like Volcano Manor and Mohgwyn Palace before just gutting the covenant aspects of those locations. I do think places like Volcano Manor would go a long ways to actually being a hub for invaders instead of just the grocery store at which invaders swing by to pick up their infinite fingers.
As always, very much appreciate your thoughts and responses on these videos especially when you don't quite agree with all my points, you always manage to point out a blind spot or point of view that I hadn't quite considered. I feel very fortunate to have someone who puts as much thought and care in their words in my comments section
I general I dislike the idea of achievements in games, but yeah, I don't want to force people with an offline connection to grind through 5 billion Silver Knights again lmao
one idea I had for improving Covenent in a future game was to give each a unique passive buff for both pve and pvp.
In pve or when you the host, the buff can be active while using an ember or ruin arc like item.
In pvp the buff is automatic so long as your perform the task of your Covenent, ie: if u rosaria's finger, buff only when invading, and if u sunbro, buff only when summoned for help, not when doing somthing else like invading as a sunbro.
These Covenent buffs essentially act as greatrunes, but u can use them in pvp even when not the host, (mind u the 25% flat health buff is common for all regardless of covenent when u use the ember like item, only the host can use this, no 25% health bonus for summons and invaders)
Some unique buffs could be:
1. Sunbros get a healing buff to their miracles and flasks, they get a passive healing aura that heals companions when close (note does not heal the user, just nearby allies, like that one dress in elden ring)
2. Invader covenet gets a bootleg bloodborne rally mechanic, since they always getting ganked, I thought this would be fitting for them
3. Mad phantoms could get health regen for every kill, useful since they can kill enemies in the world unlike typical invaders
(i would personally completely rework them so that there is actually an incentive to summon them)
Another system id like is a sin system, so when u do somthing cringe like invade someone successfully or kill innocent merchants or perform tasks thats against your Covenents goals, like invading as a sunbro, u rack up sin that paints u as a target to the adjudicators (darkmoon Covenent), repeated offense will also lower ur rank in the covenant making some offerings void.
Another thing would be the reward scheme for the covenant. Make it a shop with differnt teirs, each teir have new sets of items like reskin armor, weapons, new ash of wars, spell varients and rare consumables, even spirit ashes, all paid with the Covenent item that way people can just get what to want and ignore what they dont like. This will make them more commited to the Covenent and the get worthwhile rewards for their efforts rather than somthing random like in ds games
thank you mr recommended youtuber
Finally someone spitting facts; stagnation is defeat
I'm just on that Shinto Grindset
A fellow Onryō, nice. Mine's "Inaba Onryō Yōtō", and as the name would suggest, it's a very edgy bleed build.
He's supposed to be a disciple of Okina, who died in dishonor, and because of that wanders around as a ghost seeking a proper death.
(Yōtō is often used to describe a cursed blade)
Anyway, I love the idea of a catacombs/cave covenant, just to spice those places up a bit
I looooove that character lore, hell yeah
It’s not delusional!
I’m also pumped to actually watch this later and have more specific commentary 👏🏼 be back soon Le Gyrm 👏🏼
Are these DLC covenants in the room with us right now?
@@RofoTheGyrm I’m sitting in a room with Miyazaki right now and the covenants are here too. Every reward is a different Katana 👏🏼
@@RENDAN_iel AAHHHHHHHHHH
Thank you Rofo The Shmeegle 😅😊great video as always bro.
Been playing Fromsoft since dark soul 1. I am a pve player, i co-op the game with friend and we make roleplay/ themed team together. The only game i actually went and do actual PVP / invasion was DS3 solely because of the Covenant. I havent touch elden ring PVP much yet and the reason is for me there is nothing in it for me, i get invaded and enjoy getting invade but i dont invade myself cause there is nothing to strive for, no acheivement, no reward. I can go into arena for PVP match even.
Covenant gave reward for pvp instead of just exp. It was not perfect but it was a Gateway that made me enjoy it and i end up doing 'arena' Pvp at Pontiff. Covenant wont stagnate the game it will bring PVE player to test PVP out of nescessity or desire. Worked so good for me i cant be the only one.
I Agree on one thign however, IF they make covenant, make them change mechanic of the game like Spear of The church did or the Rat Covenant. Put one that reward helping PVE player boss sure why not. Give every kind of player something thats always good.
I dont dismiss your points, just throwing my perspective as a PVE player, i enjoyed the video.
Thanks Ruffles the Wyrm , great video! Did anyone tell you had a very unique name
Nobody has ever said that to me ever, in my entire life
cant watch rn but thats an absolutely goated thumbnail.
Edit: now watched and can say that old thing good, new thing bad with certainty. Thank you for reaffirming this mindset :)
Thank you I spent like 30mins making it
I know where that thumbnail is from 💀
thenk you chasethebro
Clicked on this video with less than 600 views not expecting much. Turns out I've found a real gem here. Keep up the good content broski.
Thank you Rofo. Surprise surprise I agree with everything you’ve said. Also. I really really really want Gravelording back. Maybe make it a catacombs only thing to actually add challenge to those areas. Great video Rofo, and I WILL be stealing the Onryo title for a character in the future
Steal away, I share these builds so that people might take inspiration and create their own weirdo builds and then hopefully one while running through a thousand Kevins while invading I'll encounter of one you beautiful folk and your strange beautiful builds
Thank you Rotor the Gyrocopter.
More flavor from covenants would be great. Both from a roleplay and gameplay perspective. Fromsoft is clearly capable of creating covenants such as the gravelords or rats that have fun, weird multiplayer mechanics. I'd love to see more in that vein for over different colored invaders.
We'll see about whether that's something that's important to Fromsoft, it has been nearly a decade since we got really in depth or game changing covenants, but I'm holding out hope tbh
Thank you ROBO The GRUYERE for not baiting us with stupid titles.
Covenants are not a total fix for the PvP. I am tired of people presenting it as if they are. Lack of covenants is a gripe I have. I couldn't disagree more with you about DS3 covenants when it comes to functionality. They majorly impacted the MP imo. I think the functionality of covenants is important. Similar to solo host invasions, it encourages people to interact with the multiplayer. It creates more invaders and people who enjoy PvP who otherwise would not have tried it. It is important that there are various introductions. I think my first DS3 invasions were as an Aldrich Faithful in 2017. This definitely did have a direct impact on my enjoyment of the game.
That being said, making covenants strong on the RP side of things is something very desirable. I do see that people want that. It's something I see with new invaders especially. I would love to see that.
You are right. The player cap will almost certainly not increase. Without a player cap increase, it will severely limit the impact of covenants. Even if both these things happened (as unlikely as that is), there are still fundamental challenges to the MP system and mechanics that make invading quite frustrating.
The poise thing... the powerstancing thing... you are so right. So right on both of those. I feel like the feedback of "poise is turned off" and "powerstancing should return" really got to them. I would love to talk about that more at length. I have a lot to say on that topic.
Thanks for the great video!
I definitely didn't give DS3 covenants enough credit for what they did do well with onboarding new players to invasions, but I just think they wouldn't fit into a game without a substantial player cap like Elden Ring. I would absolutely love another covenant that actually encourages new and inexperienced players to participate in PVP though
praying to papa nito for grave lords to be added to eldenring
Hey man i just found your channel and i really like your videos so good work. Ive been wanting to get into souls pvp and invasions and have determined that the most active game seems to be elden ring. The problem is i really dont enjoy invading in elden ring because of the 2 player requirement for the enemy. Do you have any tips or builds that could help me get started and maybe later down the road I’ll be able to learn more and make my own builds. Thanks and keep on making videos.
My thing as a mostly offline player who got into souls in like 2020/2021 is that covenants are just long ass farms locking cool spells and Items I want in DS3. DS1 is fine as drop rates are not the worst in that game.
i only clicked because you coded the phantom thumbnail in description
respect for using a talisman to look like host in invasions, i wish we could do this with no talisman, this would actually save the whole pvp, probably adding it in dlc
thank you Rimtim the Glinch
deceased
Thank you for the good thumbnail.
Thanks four thumbnail.
Thnx 4 thicks.
The thicks appreciate your thumb nail care, because you have filed this one.
Your profile picture led me to believe that you might not have them pampered.
In fact, I thought they would be shattered after countless hours of raw fingered parries.
Ever never thought about your nails until you pointed them out, actually.
I'm pleasantly surprised.
Thanks for coming to the appointment earlier than expected.
Come again!
what the hell
@@RofoTheGyrm ♥️
ROBO The GRUYERE does it again. I disagree with you vehemently about the Ds3 covenants but we’ve already discussed this. I don’t really think Covenants have been a roleplaying consideration since DS2, like you said, and DS3s were more functional in that they got more players together into one place at one time. Seeing as how we have a 4 player limit, they wouldn’t really accomplish much of that anyway. Besides, coinvasions are as good as dead, outside of playing with your friends. And isn’t that what most of us want anyway?
Covenants like blues you never get summoned into but always have to fight as a red, or aldritch which gave the advantage of no friendly fire but your teammates were always silly goobers so it didn't help. Honestly covenants didn't add much to the game and most invasions were the same cookie cutter boring formula anyway
MIYAROFO MUSASHI 👺
Also, did we come to similar build ideas in these videos haha? I’m listening to you talk about Shura in Sekiro with the Omen Cleaver/offhand Wakizashi like “I’m just like him IRL for real 🫨.”
Fortunately for me, I’m not looking for covenants to fix PvP because I don’t need PvP to be fixed. If From decides to pull out some sort of super secret plan to revamp everything and finally blow us away with a suddenly incredibly balanced and best it’s ever been system, great! But I really just want more flavor (same as you). I don’t expect it but I would like it and yea Rats 🐀/blue invader 🧢 covenant I can get behind Mr. Gruyère.
Now I need to go read and engage with Fel’s dissertation, so I’ll see you there.
LMAO when your video came out I was like "oh no I just made the same video but Blue Flavored" (magic damage)
I'm very much with you in the same boat as that I've come to terms with the current state of PVP, and if Fromsoft decides to throw some crazy changes our way I'm all for it but I'm also not waiting for something change before I can enjoy the game.
Thank you rambo the guerilla
(at work rn but ill watch the rest later ✅)
Thank you for making the thumbnail actually funny lol
Maybe the real Covenants were the friends we made along the way.
Thank you RanchTheGummyWorm
i too have been in my weeb era ever since watching blue eyed samurai. anyways thank you for your mercy rombo the gem
Thank you ROFFY!
I think the thing what made ds3's paired weapon movesets so good, was how they were all almost completely unique. Sure you had shittier sellswords, or dancer's sellswords, but each had their own niche, dancer's being in the bin. Ds3's weapons were so memorable, with interesting movesets and properties, elden ring hasnt enough in the moveset variety and balance department.
i would like a mercy covenant like the white masks to be in the game. you invade the host and kill them, the hosts don't lose anything but gain extra red/blue flasks
Increased phantom limit was the dream. Covenants would've just attracted more players to fill the new slots.
THANK YOU RAPHAEL
oh my god this might be the best one
Y'know what'd be cool though? A full on war between Bloody Fingers and Finger Hunters. It'd start with one Invader then another then a Hunter and so on until its a 5v5 and none of them aren't even over lvl150 so they have like actual unique builds.
I just hope something, anything new is added to PvP in the dlc, but pretty good points in this vid
Just to provide the distinction between the shura and the onryō, the main difference is the reason why each kills. An onryō kills because of a reason. They are vengeful spirits that seek to enact vengeance (usually involving copious amounts of bloodshed) to right the wrongs done to them. A shura kills without reason. A shura is actually a Japanese way of referring to Asura; power-hungry "demons" that act as a force of destruction.
This is the night-and-day difference between Mizu and Shura-kiro:
Mizu starts the killing as vengeance. She wants to put the only four people that resulted in her conception to the sword, because of the pain she had to go through in her life. And because she is, at least symbolically, an onryō, her vengeance is blind. Because the onryō do not just want justice, they want to be satisfied, their methods are cruel and often petty. The men that protect Fowler's castle, for example, are cut down with little regard because they are in the way of the vengeance and that is reason enough. The reason she does the unspeakable is exactly that; her victim's life is in the way of vital information for revenge, so snap goes the neck. She takes no joy in the killing. Because a ghost need not be happy, only appeased, "...only satisfied.".
Sekiro in the Shura path forsakes his reason for the bloodshed. At first he had reason to kill; to protect Kuro's wellbeing. But after his father tells him "Ok new plan; take the boy, kill everyone." he faces against Emma. Emma who guides your path, aids you with the wounds you sustain, and helps stave off dragonrot, is to be put to the sword. She was one of very few true friends you make along this journey, but "The father's word is absolute", and so you cut her down like a dog. And then it hits you. You liked it. You found it satisfying to see the life drain from her eyes, fun even. And when you see Isshin ready his blade, you are just buzzing to put him to the sword, too. And it's even more fun. You didn't even do it because he's in the way, or because you hate him, you just wanted to kill him to see if you could. Then your father shows up and you let him live, for a while. But you've never killed a great shinobi before...
That's also rather tragic that you probably let Kuro live because killing him wouldn't be fun enough for you.
An onryō is driven by malice and hatred; they believe their murder is justified.
A shura is driven by joy, they do not need a reason for their murder other than "It's fun" and it makes them stronger (see Sekiro reaching for the black mortal blade as well as the red one).
That's also what makes Shura so much more terrifying; you can reason with onryō as long as you are not the mark and stop being an obstruction. You can't reason with Shura; once it sets its eyes on you, it'll kill you with a glee and not a drop of hatred for you in their heart.
These two could not be different, so I think using magic damage instead of fire adds an extra dimension to this build
(Yeah, it's a whole tome passage; I'm a sucker for feudal Japan and winged hussars and instead of writing my book, I'm procrastinating harder than George R.R Martin at the moment, so bear with.)
Know the difference, Grofold the Yharwyrm, and great video as always. Your lore-inspired buildcrafting is the reason I love your videos and the game.
Edit: I had to retype some of the text that was originally italics because YT just straight up deleted those parts.
THANK YOU for posting this, this is extremely helpful! Really appreciate this info, thank you!!
@@RofoTheGyrm Real talk, I had this video-essay esque speech prepared in my head for months waiting for the perfect moment to strike. I was so ready.
Even the mouthbreathers of DS3 were miles above what is present in ER. Just a simple co-invader already adds much needed variance and chaos to these experiences yes also when they turn on you, though in this game even a single other red is rare. I seriously believe that if they don't add covenants or at least raise player limit in the DLC to 5 this multiplayer will turn into a ghost-town way sooner than DS3 did. The arena didn't patch things as they hoped for because at its core invasions are what everyone comes to these games for, you can do do isolated PvP everywhere else.
The hole in my heart isn't covenant shaped it's dead multiplayer in record time shaped. Elden ring having no solo host invasions and the Seamless coop mod killed any chance pvp had on pc. Soon after release i had longer searching times for invasions than Ds3 toward the tail end. Crazy having to spam search for 10 minutes straight only to end up in a 1v3 shit show invasion and then do it all again. This is what killed ER PVP for me. Covenants wont fix this even if we got them multiplayer on PC will still be on life support. I don't know how playstation is but i suspect a lot more activity and the quality of invasions is probably better too because on PC the people who aren't ganking are likely using the seamless coop mod.
Oh my god are we still parroting the same "dead game" and "multiplayer on life support" phrases from popular streamers? All of the invasions you're seeing here were collected on like a weeknight, on PC. Despite the multiple claims of Seamless Co-op "ruining" activity on PC, this has never really been the case in my experience, I've never really struggled to get invasions. Activity is plentiful at mid ranges, I'm not sure what it's like at meta but anywhere from rl40-90 is a constant stream of invasions for me.
Every Fromsoft game's PVP gets claimed to be "a dead game", especially DS3. You're well within your right not to like PVP in this game which I understand, but activity isn't a real issue
Mine is just invading the same people who taunter's tongue at meta then after 3 to 5 beat downs they left.
Thank you Foryo Thigh-Gin
I only had/have "DS3 best PVP" nostalgia because I only played it in 2020 first time, and barely got to PVP at all, really enjoying what I got just before the servers were shut down for 7 months. It's less nostalgia and more resentment.
Good Video man.
I mean the varré Questline is kinda like a covenant bc mogh invented the blood travel that we know as Invasions. I like it without covenants but the rewards for killing the host are kinda bad.
Shout out to the area where you get invaded 4 different times by NPCs who have formed a covenant dedicated to invading other tarnished with the demigod whom the player can form a covenant dedicated to invading other tarnished with (it's not a covenant PVP area)
It's all the trappings and telltale signs of a covenant area without any of the covenant -_-
This is all true, while I would love covs, there's a couple big asterisks there obviously one being that they alone will not make this a perfect invasion game, no amount of fun player colors will reduce moonveil damage. But also, based on the very homogeneous nature of DS3 covs, even if they did implement ER covs, I doubt they would be even the slightest bit interesting.
I would love a game with a bunch of distinct and nuanced covenants, but I know that that's not going to happen
OR*** Maybe MAYBE we are in the timeline where Miyazaki himself reads this exact comment and decides to implement all the features I want and all my dreams come true!! (anything is possible if u believe)
I still think covenants would be an amazing addition if they change invasions a little bit and give you the option to make it more even ground. The reason I liked covenants in dark souls was because they gave a goal for people who didn’t usually play pvp and got me into pvp. But we already disagree about wanting solo invasions and power stancing because I love those. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting something old because they have some great mechanics in their old games and it’s okay for people to want that just like it’s okay for people to want change.
Why oh why couldn't we have gotten a Dragon Cult Covenant😢 p.s for me it's all about the roleplayability
We're really out here just trying R in our PGs
Thank you rofothegym
Good vid
thank
I think it's very reductive to say that we, the players, don't know what we want because when we do get what we want it turns out terrible (like with passive poise and powerstancing). Because we do want these things and we know they can be good, because they were implemented well before.
We wanted passive poise back because it fixes issues like DS3's arrows and bolts/unreactable attacks like dagger/curved swords always staggering you no matter what. We wanted powerstancing because it's fun to use two weapons together at once, not just alternating between the two, and Dark Souls 2 did it pretty well. We want covenants back because Fromsoft has had great ideas and are often cool to be a part of (tying your build to a covenant like Darkmoons/Princess Guards, Gravelords, Rat King, Brotherhood of Blood's aesthetic rewards, Vilebloods and Executioners' adversarial relationship, etc.).
The issue isn't that we don't know what we want, or that we shouldn't ask for old things. The issue is that From Software just doesn't know how to, or doesn't want to balance things properly. You could make so many changes by just editing the Regulations. You could make 2-handing way better than powerstancing. You could slow down Fallingstar Jaw's AoW so that it can't be spammed as much. You could reduce tracking on rapiers so that they don't spin 360º to hit you. You could do so much, so easily, but From doesn't want to do that. Balancing isn't easy, but it's not that damn hard to realize for instance, that 2-handing is worse than 1-handing or powerstancing by virtue of losing your offhand.
Coming up with good ideas is also not easy, but it's not that hard to make covenants interesting by combining everything they made so far. Alone, their covenant mechanics kinda suck, but together they could be so, so much more.
Would you not love it if entering a covenant imposed limits (can't enter this or that area), offered unique benefits and drawbacks (using x category of spells granted them a 10% damage bonus; or you had super buffed Spear of the Church stats as an invader but couldn't heal or get a coinvader), and it granted you access to specific visual and mechanical differences (Generic Buff adds fire damage if in covenant A, but magic damage if in covenant B, etc; covenant A sets your character's head permanently on fire like Harald Knights, covenant B adds blue magic floating motes around your character, etc.)
The things covenants add don't have to be huge, they just have to be enough to matter and be desired. If they added a covenenant that only gave you an aura, that would be cool and serve a purpose. But if all that a covenant does is give you a staff that is inferior to every other staff on every possible build, then that covenant might as well not exist (but even then you could edit the stats such that it's actually desirable).
Thank you Roblox the Gamer
to get people that wouldn’t engage in online features to try it out for items locked behind covenants. Because as of now there is little to no reason to try pvp. I just wish they would introduce covenants that changes how pvp works like gravelording could be sick in Elden Ring
Covenants (the ds3 style) definitely won't fix pvp, the devs themselves need to fix pvp. This game has been given minimal balancing efforts as far as pvp, but this is not surprising with fromsoft given their history. I expect little in the way of multiplayer adjustments, which definitely could mean no covenants. I hope that if they do they add like ds1 style covenants, I think those had a significant impact on multiplayer interactions because there was different motivation for different covenant players, and some of their matchmaking ranges had variation. Gravelord and Dragon stand out the most to me because they used white sign range instead of red sign range. DS1 had its own matchmaking problems though so the covenants were by no means perfect. Weapon matchmaking screws up most of this idea though because it cuts your range down by a lot. So I think they need a different solution this time (at least if they go for the ds1 style multiplayer covenants), since ER has weapon and RL matching, there's gotta be some kind of way they can implement a covenant with a unique matchmaking feature. Heck, I think they could even make solo hosting a covenant based option instead of using the taunter's tongue. Kind of like gravelord or rat king. I also very much enjoyed old darkmoon range, as remastered darkmoon range is infinitely up like red range is. Being a counter invader was an interesting concept. Or an anti-twink. It was kinda busted how far down a darkmoon could actually go though. But in any case, maybe there's a solution none of us have thought of yet.
thank rampaflamptin
One of the best yet
I don't think anyone believes this much anymore. It's been over two years, people are exhausted. And it was always part cope anyway. Like you said, the real crux was 5 or 6 player limit allowing for 3v2 or 4v2 or whatever in at least some areas. That's not happening, as far as current evidence goes. So either there's a fundamental overhaul with solo invasions tied to covenants/runes/whatever (allowing for flow of new/casual players), or there's nothing but more of the same (as in, red man comes in and walks into an elden blender). There won't be a swamp and there won't be a gank city either.
And actual cool stuff like gravelording and whatnot? Yeah that was first and last seen +10 years ago. I remember wondering if they would reinvent the gravelord concept for ER, it looked like the perfect time. Man...
DLC will allow us to kick people though, so... yeah, let's get those forty bucks ready. And if there's PvP stuff? Boy, twice the happy feelz then!
thanks tofu the gyat!
Oh my god that's excellent
Most clickbaity thumbnail/title I’ve ever seen, not watching. Hehe just kidding I’m a silly lil guy. But yeah beautifully said there man. Idk about the any rune arc for us thing but another invader one would be great though the mogh one has never really been that appealing to me
thank you rufus the goofus
They hated him for he spoke the truth
You had me up until "Invaders want PVP, so why not make them invadeable at all times?" No thanks, I already get enough grace duels from all the tunters. Don't need to be hosting them myself.
I'm sure streaming the game as frequently as you do increases the number of grace goblins that you get. As someone who pretty much never streams I really don't encounter them quite as frequently, and I'd honestly prefer it if they had actual incentives to be aggressive to me rather than play extremely passively in a massive open world
Thank you Rofo!
1. for not doing a zee oh storm type thumbnail bait
2. for reminding me that Gough's "thank you" stones were so much better than ER's prattling plates (like everything else in ER, a visual, audio, and gameplay downgrade)
3. for being honest. ER is not getting covenants because it's not how ER works. Souls is dead, the fire faded, just like it told us it would. Onward we go.
"stop living in the past"
"you'll go hollow"
HYPOCRITE!
I will say that I'd love the Prattling Pates if they were just louder, I can barely hear them over the ambient sounds of the game without music lmao
Yay
yippee
Nah, no thank you (I'm evil)
Thank you Ōdachi weeb rofo
arigato
Elden Ring dies faster than any souls games before it.
There are 51K ppl playing Elden Ring right now on Steam alone lol
I've been getting non stop invasions all week leading up to this video. You may not like Elden Ring PvP but calling it a dead game is just being willfully ignorant
@@RofoTheGyrm oh yeah, sure calling me willfully ignorant when i tried all rune level invasion in southeast asia timezone for half an hour. And can't find anyone except the same mfs over and over and calling that game alive? You're insane.
@DarkspiritLyllianaTV I just got 8 invasions in the last hour at rl80, you might just be smooth brained
@@RofoTheGyrmoh yeah, maybe i should do a compilation of me just spamming invasion items since i am smooth brained huh? You little shit.
Yeah that's exactly what you should do, prove to the world that you are indeed capable of pressing multiple buttons in the correct order lmao
Maybe leave the build talk till the end if you can't keep it short, skipping the first 5 minutes before getting to the point of the video is a bit stupid
Nah
the 'hurrr change good' argument is at least as lazy and bad as 'no changes'. fromsoft and players need to be more analytical than that if the sub-genre is going to continue to improve.
At no point did I say that change is inherently good, just that change is the natural evolution of things and something that Fromsoft is clearly committed to. I'm just advocating for embracing that change rather than putting effort towards demanding regression
@@RofoTheGyrm Some of the changes From made in ER are obviously regressions, like player counts and covenants. If your point is you don't like the discourse around the game, then we can agree to disagree.
I can't help but wonder: if people were making big detailed critiques of the pvp in the souls games like some of the videos on yt about dark souls 2, would we be playing a better version of ER now?
Thank you roofus the guy, you are a breath of fresh air for the Elden ring pvp nerds like myself
I would really like to see bloodbornes covenant system return. I really liked the hunter of hunters, vilebloods vs church hunters all those interactions were very fun