Hidden Gems In This Neglected Bible Passage: Romans 16:1-16
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- You may be surprised by how relevant and applicable a simple section of greetings can be. God’s word was written to equip us for every good work and this passage is no exception. We’ll learn about women in ministry, some undesigned coincidences, and some great insights that might change the way you look at relationships with fellow Christians.
Let us always pray for Mike. The quality of his ministry is a gift to the Church in our time and he must be defended and lifted before our God.
Amen
20:45 He believes it's necessary to give women permission to have an opinion. He's pathetic.
@@ircjesselee I think your misunderstanding, he said if your a woman asking yourself can you correct someone with theological error or do you need a husband with you if so the answer he believes is that yes a woman can and no a husband does not need to be with her to do it.
@@savannah138
St. Paul knows the righteous way for women to behave in these regards.
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression".
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
AMEN!
Yes I pray he does more study into this topic as I have done. For I found that it was the Catholic church that watered down diakonos to mean just servant. Yet the first 3 centuries it was defined as "one who serves as a minister"......
And Junia there is multiple documents throughout the first 5 centuries confirming her both as a female and a Apostle like Papyrus 46.......
I'll tell you why I love your teaching "style" so much. You are unafraid to just simply say, "this is not biblical", and yet, your words are gentle.
Great t teaching
Amen to that.
Amen
Junia was a female Apostle as there is multiple documents throughout the first 5 centuries confirming thus. Papyrus 46 being one of them.....
@@kennethcadwell2124 Papyrus 46 contains parts of Paul's epistles. So, we have those in the New Testament! 🤪🤪
Also, whether Junia was a woman or not (and it seems she was), she and Andronicus were known among the Apostles, or known *to* the Apostles. That means they were both highly regarded among the Apostles. It doesn't actually say that either of them *were* Apostles
Why is it so important to you to be right in this, anyway?
I have a tendency of bowing head, closing eyes and praying when I hear "Let's pray" , so here I am at the end of the video and I hear myself saying out loud "Amen" at the end of the prayer. Made me laugh. We are together as a church everywhere & anywhere I guess. Thanks for another good teaching!
you are not alone.
I always pray at home with Mike 😊
I too bow my head, close my eyes and say "amen" right along with Pastor Mike, and all of you, my fellow Christians. We are a praying family and a nation wide if not world wide church body . ❤
Thank you for making these talks/sermons available on RUclips. That way you are serving so many more people than "just" your own congregation.
I always get something out of your sermons, be it encouragement, challenge, fresh insight into a Biblical doctrine... Thank you.
Thank you for this.
I am a single woman; my husband walked out on me and filed for divorce that went through without me ever signing or agreeing to anything so I am a divorcee.
I have shared the gospel with many and helped lead people to see errors in theology and now am enrolling in a Christian College after hearing God tell me to.
Women have so much value to offer and need to be honoured. There have been so many faulty teachings about men and women and how they should interact; in truth, all people are to be honoured and valued!
I didn't think a one sided divorce was possible in the west in this day. I'm in Canada, but I knew a couple that from decades back, where the husband could not get his ex (but technically still legal wife) to sign divorce documents. He and his commonlaw wife were forced to stay commonlaw, just out of vindictiveness, because his ex was commonlaw too. Go figure.
Amen sister peach Gods word!
@@saintejeannedarc9460 - it's similar to a civil law suit. There is a complainant and a respondent. One spouse sues the other. You don't have to respond, but you'll likely be in contempt of court and rules against in a preliminary ruling or summary judgement.
@@holychildofgod3778 Amen amen amen. the word of God is a lamp unto my feet.
@@holychildofgod3778 Deborah a Prophetess and Judge, Judith also who was placed by God in a leadership position...the women Paul describes for them to greet because the met in her house... especially 2 John.. very clearly. I'm not into names. But consider this we live in a world when *men* surrender the *birth rights* and become homosexual, transgendered and exchange their glory for another. In their grevious mistake...do you think all the gifts and talents God invested in the man will go to waste...no but the God that we serve will use anything. He used a donkey brethren Listen til this day, people are able to see signs in the sky why? Because God established it in order to communicate with men. Now Joel 2 says he will pour out His spirit upon all flesh and the old men...the young men...the maidens (women) will be prophesying...I love you. Lets continue to pray for one another!
I love pastor Mike , his wisdom and the way he clarify the Word of God its great. Thank you pastor Mike we prayed for you, God to increase you in wisdom and prosper you and your beautiful family in all good things. We love you
many years ago I did some writing. I had a terrific Christian lady friend well read in New Testament Greek.
On occasion I "picked her brain"...she was a great help to me.
I was actually stunned when I moved from the Bible belt and tried to find a church in New England and I couldn't find a church where they called one another "brother" or "sister". It does remind you that you are family in Christ's name, and makes you much closer as a congregation. There are too many things to separate us as it is.
what did they call each other then? all the churches i've been to in the northeast use those terms.
I've never been to a church who calls one another brother or sister. We've always just used people's names
@@bufficliff8978 Pretty common in Southern and Black churches
I am in New England and I’m from a church that we call each other “brother” and “sister”. Churches are small and hard to find tbh. Took me a while too to find somewhere
@@firedrakeillusional9862 I can confirm this.
Here in Hawaii we have a local tradition of greeting each other with a kiss on the cheek. It is mainly used from guy to older girl or between guys and girls around the same age. It definitely is not a sensual kiss, but more of a familial type of thing. Hawaiian culture totally understands what a holy kiss is.
Same in Europe... some places you do one cheek, both cheeks, or even 3 kisses going back and forth!
Same thing in Guatemala!
Same in Ethiopia!
@Patrick your HI's tradition is like that in the underground evangelical church back in the communist USSR 😉😉
Same in Chile! 🇨🇱
Hi I am from Namibia and finding great encouragement from your lessons delivered with great excitement for the Word and very easy to follow.. Preaching has become so watered down (even here) that it is really great to hear new voices rising with passion. Unfortunately American health and wealth ministry has been imported to Africa. We can only trust in God's sovereign plan.
Jackie Peddie i agree brother. I was recently at a church in uganda where the only thing the pastor talked about was how God was going to rain riches on the people. He then would ask people to give "seeds" and from what I understood the bigger the "seed" the bigger the wealth. He was also very much into faith healing and prophesy and would ask people for "help" in exchange for prophecy. A friend of mine gpt drawn into his deception for almost a year before he realized that the man was using his gift to extort money. We all must be very careful of these men. God bless
this has to be a worldwide issue....I am involved in the Latin American world, and it is the same, all over....this world....
@@timg5603 that's the false "prosperity gospel" which only serves to enrich the "false Pastor" and the leadership of the church.
Yeah, that "seed faith". thing is BOGUS 😂
I really appreciate your integrity and restraint. I think it would greatly benefit you to visit nations where gender roles are not really an issue and women are doing church planting, discipline, lead pastors/co-pastors. I think the North American church wastes a lot of time and energy arguing about roles which ultimately detracts from Christ.
I found this very respectful and useful so I'm not saying this is a waste of time but as a female with a strong gift of teaching and speaking, my spirit is tired of gender roles being an issue to debate. I also have no ambition of being an elder, I really don't care but there are many effective women elders and pastors in other nations. I believe there wouldn't be churches as in gatherings of believers without them.
Bingo!
Going to church is not the end; it is a means to an end: fellowship-with God and with one another, and I don' t just mean home study groups, a good start, but also gatherings where there is fervent discussion and ministry to one another as in 1 Peter 4.10. This end is seldom met. I am a Bible teacher but never functioned that way in a church bt rather taught the bible for 15 years in a college as a Humanities. I felt that teaching was my natural calling, but could not function that way in a church, but God opened a way and I was very glad to be used that way.
meggy8868, I pray that you would pray for more clarity about your wonderful call to God's ministry. God indeed raises up women to proclaim His word in this day to believers and unbelievers. This is the Promise of the Father. .... You mentioned you never functioned "that way" in a church.... I believe you're allowing cultural considerations to have preeminence over Christ and His commission. Christ doesn't wait for approval from His male disciples when He gives Living Water and His Gifts to women. He doesn't wait for His male disciples to overcome their cultural ideas for other races, gender, past sins, professional occupation, egos etc..
@@dianawilliams6700 The Bible says though that women cannot preach / teach men in the church,1 Tim 2.11-14, 1 Cor 14.33-37. This was something I've struggled with as well, as it's not a cultural thing, but a command from God. I think the only time we can is when men aren't obeying God's command for them to lead and lead correctly, but I have no basis for this except using other contexts as precedents, such as Abigail. We cannot ignore parts of the Bible just because we don't like them or they don't fit what we'd like culture to be; we must always choose the instruction of the Word over the fatuous dictates of culture.
@@snopureI understand that this post of yours was from at least a year ago. I just felt a probing of the Spirit to tell you that the Scriptures that you shared does not include preaching. It only says that women are not to teach men or usurp authority over the men. You are not the only person who has grouped preach, and teach together. However, they are two separate distinct callings of God as part of the five fold ministry listed in Ephesians chapter 4. ❤
I agree those are missing from most churches. I’d like to see more of it, and more ministering to communities as well, and for people to take John 14:12 more seriously. Very few will even agree that Jesus actually meant what he said. Most try to dismiss it. Jesus has very high expectations of his followers. He isn’t looking for a bunch of benchwarmers that just want a spot in heaven, and don’t do much, if anything, beyond that.
@@snopure Yes, I've never fought those verses and just let God open whatever doors I can walk through and be of service.
Also, re: the kissing thing, it brought back memories of a youth speaker many years ago saying that the difference between a holy kiss and an unholy kiss is about 5 min.
Lol. They gender-separated the early church pretty early because people were misbehaving during the holy kiss.
I thought it was using your tongue ;) lol!
A kiss only takes about 5 seconds.
So the difference between a Holy kiss and an unholy kiss is more like someone coming up to you and the kiss being ( 5 ) [ seconds ] too long. . . 🤨
It is incorrectly translated as "kiss" and is supposed to be greeting XD.
Or a kiss on the cheek would fit today, (and it would be good to have that return, as few do that in greeting in the US, anyway), though throughout history people did give a peck on the lips. That’s not even a full second of lip contact, unless they’d not seen each other in a long time...
Thank you! I’m a woman if the name didn’t give it away. I was called into ministry! I knew about the women who were serving as I have had to defend my calling to others. I didn’t know the same name was used in both verses. The funny thing, I never wanted to be a lead pastor. I would love to write, travel, teach/preach, and I would love to do apologetics and debate!
Deacons are to be MEN.
"12 Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well."
1 Timothy 3:11-12 (ASV)
Wives and children thus obedient and under the husbands' rule.
@@thewatcher96 you keep saying that. Where did this say let only men be deacons? It didn't. It says the men to be servants in the church have one wife and be a great leader in their homes. God can use whom he pleases to preach His word. Dont quantify or limit My Father based on your limited fragile masculine viewpoint.
Thank you for your service in the Kingdom sister. The counsil that put together the Bible severely undermined the importance of women in leadership and struck many out of the scriptures because they never wanted a female pope. How shameful. Christ himself said he will pour out his spirit upon ALL flesh and that all that follow him will do what he did and greater. He didn't say only the men. The 1st century church wouldn't have made it without women as many were called to lead and preach the word. And thank God for Mary Magdalene who believed Jesus rose from the dead when her male counterparts denied it was possible even when Christ said he would. Maybe this is why God called women to lead the early church. We are more humbly susceptible to His messages.
@@robertomontanez1163 i read the same Bible you did and studied beyond and never found what you're saying. Provide scriptures evidence with proper context.
@@SDGirl05 stated, " Where did this say let only men be deacons?"
"8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well".
1 Timothy 3:8-12 (KJV)
HTH.
"Let the chips fall where they may. That's an old salsa analogy." I'm dying LOL. Always good teaching, Mike
Hahaha 😁😄
Actually probably a tree-felling or carpentry analogy. Lol 😄😄👍
If Junia was not an apostle, that's ok with me, but I have a problem with one of your arguments against Andronicus and Junia being apostles: You said "how come we've never heard of them before?" I would like to point out that of the 12 apostles that Jesus hand-picked, we hardly hear anything of Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, James of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, or Judas of James (Acts 1:13). Neither do we hear of Matthias after Acts 1:26. Acts mainly follows the ministry of Paul, especially after his ministry begins. My claim is that Luke (or whoever wrote Acts) certainly researched or otherwise knew the events of the early church, but as it grew, was involved with Paul's ministry and so the events he traces are those connected to Paul.
Out of the sovereignty of God, we have everything we need in the Bible, the Word of God, but there are ministries we never hear of, ministries that are foundational to the Church, the ekklesia. Revelation 21:14 tells us "the twelve" apostles are the foundation stones of the heavenly Jerusalem. Jesus says "you also shall sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19:28 & Luke 22:30) and their work was so important it was not desirable for them to "neglect the word of God to serve tables".
I accept that Andronicus and Junia may simply have been well known TO the apostles, but if the ministries of most of the 12 are something we don't hear much of, I consider it sufficient that Romans 16:7 is all we hear of the apostleship of Andronicus and Junia.
@ Knight of christ Please note that at least church history records / legends are there regarding the Twelve Apostles.
But absolutely nothing of that sort is there regarding Andronicus or Junia . If they were really outstanding Apostles or at par with the Twelve , it would not have been so .
Your argument lacks force at this point .
I agree. What was included would eventually have to be limited, just like in an acceptance speech, for example. What others did for the person speaking go well beyond the noted things. Just because they’re not expounded upon, doesn’t diminish what they do. There’s just a limit to how much detail records can include,. Also, it’s small thinking to assume that all the records kept of what was done are known, or that records per se were kept at all, or in as great a detail as the work done, which quite obviously they wouldn’t be, even today people’s records aren’t always fully known.
There are not many balanced men of God on this planet like this brother right here. May you remain in Him until the very end.
Hey Mike, I hate to see division in a church (the congregation/gathering), I've just taken the decision to leave my local, hope it's the right decision, it's kept me awake at night all week and I feel unsettled, however, when copies of "the shack" are being handed out to new comers, when home groups become a place to abuse speaking in tongues to make others feel uncomfortable/inadequate and the new pastor agrees to marry a divorced couple but then starts sending the female inappropriate text messages..... Something in my heart tells me to run for the hills and find another local church, this is lying heavy on my heart and I've been really troubled, your advice/comments will be very much appreciated, thank you for your fab online ministry, I'm a recent tuner in and loving it!! It's great that technology means the message can reach right round the globe ..... In the twinkling of an eye !!
Hazel Bowen Hey Hazel I hope that Mike responds!
If I were in your situation my heart would cry out for the lost sheep! But I would be angry with the wolf that is deceiving the sheep. I believe that it is right to feel anger and a sense that 'This is wrong' but we certainly need to be in prayer and ask God to guide us.
It's a big thing to deal with and it sounds like you. Need support from other believers who see the problem and be able to meet with someone in church leadership and address your concerns in the most loving way possible.
But if you have already left the church....find believers locally to support and comfort you. I know the deep hurt that it can cause and no doubt there is plenty of pain that needs to be healed.
Stephen Thompson Hello Stephen, thank you for your very good advice and kind words, you obviously understand my situation. I have remained in fellowship with members of the church that I used to hang out with, we are continuing with our home bible study and discussion, I have no issue with any of the church members, I am troubled by what I see ..... in them being taught false doctrines, an extremely liberal, charismatic new leadership and corruption that has crept in through the back door, I know it sounds dramatic but some of the home group practices are bordering on occultism and new age mystic nonsense, I don't want to be confrontational, it's not in my nature but I'm still angry at what I see happening, others have noticed too but don't seem to want to confront these issues so I decided it's best if I leave quietly without a fuss and look for a new church family, I will be doing my research first though... That's for sure, don't want to get into church hopping! Thanks again for your support and best wishes from grey, rainy England!
RUN AWAY,,. Churches will always have some things wrong,, but ultimately remember the scripture does not say avoid those who cause division, but avoid those who cause division, contrary to the doctrine you have received. IE, get away from those divisive people preaching false doctrine, the shack would surfice. I remember as a young believer reading in foxes book, a story ( not sure if its true) of the Apostle John finding himself in a meeting where they were preaching a heresy. He got up tore his clothes and shouted " O please Lord don't destroy me with these people" and ran with all his might away. I think sometimes God himself will ask you to strip away all the religion, all the theology, all the church activities, and simply approach a situation as a man with only a conscience, .. The whole shebang is that we believe unto righteousness, its not a strange spiritual awakening, but a solid belief unto righteousness, get away, get far away, and don't look back..
Grant Holland Grant thank you for your reply and words of support, it's great to receive these responses to my post because it encourages me through a situation where I had some doubt regarding my decision. I'm feeling more confident as each day passes that it most definitely was the right way to go but I guess I'm feeling most disturbed in the knowledge that these lovely people are being sucked in by this garbage, it's tragic! I sent the guy who's been handing out "the shack" an email last night with an attached RUclips critique of this book/film and explained that I'm very concerned he is promoting this heretical nonsense, I've been diplomatic and humble in my approach and said I am praying for him that he may see what he's doing is wrong and he needs to stop. I've also spoken to one of the deacons at the church who is going to "have a word"..... We shall see but I'm still seeking a new church, that doesn't mean I don't care for those that I've left behind, thanks again, God Bless.
Don't worry, everyone goes through this, its just a test of your faith. Mostly if you are a more mature believer it would be important for those young believers looking to you, not to defile their conscience. They need a solid foundation, and giving new converts such a controversial book is like giving a new born a shot of rum to see the effect. The doctrinal foundations, just about every single one from Hebrews 6, is challenged in that book. Also if the pastor is engaging in such sketchy activity, he can be rebuked by the elders, and come under discipline for a season, but if he continues like a celeb pastor for the sake of conscience you cant remain.. Keep well, unity can only come inside the actual person of Jesus,
When I was a missionary in India, the women there did not lack for things to do in ministry. I would say they worked harder than any, yet none of them took leadership roles or teaching positions.
If women are really struggling with what they can do, I would suggest starting in prayer, for not only can prayer itself be a ministry, but it can also open you to the calling of the LORD. I would then suggest that you look into passages like Matthew 25:31-46; Acts 9:36-42; and 1 Timothy 5:9-10. Do these things and you will never want for something to do in ministry.
How come Paul didn't specify gender with the five fold ministry in Ephesians? Hint: because anyone can in those offices. Why? Hint: there is neither Jew nor gentile in the body of Christ because women don't get a "pink Holy Spirit" and men don't get a "blue Holy Spirit". There are many gifts, but ONE SPIRIT. People need to take those churches history into account.
@@blam9360 Paul doesn't mention gender in the Epistle to the Ephesians, because he had already spent *over two years* there establishing the Church and putting things in order (Acts 19:8-10), and then *left Timothy* there, to straighten out any issues (1 Timothy 1:3). Including making sure that women did not take positions of leadership, or teaching roles (1 Timothy 2:11-15).
I thank God I was a member of a church that was pastored buy a lady and she was an exceptional Pastor!
No Thanks Mike made it clear that the pastoral/ teacher and leadership role is not for a women and the Bible backs it up that you can’t be a Pastor if your a women
@@claudiabailey5302 Sooo, does the Bible prohibit women from being prophetesses.??
@@claudiabailey5302 if women REALLY can't be pastors, why didn't Paul say that when I gave the 5 fold ministry in Ephesians 3? Totally different letter.
1. Junia is a woman's name in the Roman era. Junia Secunda, was an ancient Roman woman who lived in the 1st century BC. She was married to the triumvir Marcus Aemilius Lepidus. No man was called Junia in Ancient Rome.
2. There is no Jewish translation of a man's name into "Junias", it does not exist.
3. Joanna is a Jewish name and Junia is the Roman equivalent of Joanna.
@@alexhamilton624 Junia is indeed a woman. People should accept the Bible and not "add" to it.
Mike, I’ve done considerable research on this topic and the topic of women’s role in ministry. This interest came on the heels of seeing too many unusual things in the former circles of ministry I use to be personally affiliated with, such as Bethel, IHOP, etc.,
I commend you on the accuracy of your presentation and spirit by which you spoke!
Blessings!
I'm living across the street from IHOP right now. Weird place.
@@TheFreedomDefender good place.
@@victorvanvyver6394 its not for me.
@@TheFreedomDefender you can see their 24 hour online, prayerroom on RUclips. So you don't have to guess what they do.
@@victorvanvyver6394 I used to be on staff.
Beautiful!! I knew what Paul said about not permitting women to teach is not what people understand today. But (SOME) men love to use this Scripture, justifying their pride.
Rosanna Miller *Some men.
Bryan Bridges absolutely!! Thank you, precious brother in Christ, Amen.
I stand corrected and thankful.
Rosanna Miller There was no need to thank me, I just standing up for me, I mean men. XD
God bless you, sister.
Huh?
I disagree, Paul said in Timothy that a woman should not teach in the church, and he was clear why. A woman can teach other woman how to be good wives and moms. Paul says a woman must not have authority over men. It's Gods order of things... not ours. We should submit to God and His authority over us... woman can't be pastors or elders. The bible says so
Women have always been specially used by God in the Bible.
The list is significant, Deborah in the Old Testament, being a Judge & leader was used greatly. She had the enabling, loving covering of her husband.
Phoebe, was highly respected & seemed to be used in the capacity of a deacon.
Mary, Priscilla, Martha, Abigail, Ruth, Anna, Esther, etc. etc.
God bless the many men & women who were & are used mightily by God, both in the Bible & today !!!
Ra Marduk, yes, Jezebel played a role of ungodliness & unrighteousness, & most of all the spirit of Jezebel is a spirit of wanting 'power & control' absolutely nothing like the Godly women of the Bible!
Also remember Ra Marduk, men also, can & do have the spirit of Jezebel, not at all Godly in either a man or a woman !!!
@Ra Marduk
Proverbs 18 : 2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.
Apostle Paul was not concerned about offending people because he wasn’t a wimpy preacher. I’m amazed at how many preachers apologise for what scripture says. Incredible.
@Kevin Belgrove no thanks
Mike - having served in a vast number of ministries in the church I have never limited where I believe women can serve. I do feel heartbreak over so many people saying women cannot be pastoral preaching leaders. The sense that I can pastorally lead and teach kids and youth, but that there is suddenly a divide for adults seems ridiculous. Women teach all the time and use pastoral skills all the time. My calling is to teaching and writing, that may or may not be at the front of a church, I'm still waiting for God to guide me about where that will be while I continue at Bible College! I felt this whole discussion so hard the last 20 years in seeing so little opportunity and knowing God's calling, and thinking God must have made a mistake in giving me this calling or in making me a woman. But God doesn't make mistakes. I tried to ignore the calling for many years, experienced dark depression, had kids, continued in serving but the calling still remains.
@@robertomontanez1163 women teach men how to lead every day. Children learn most their skills from their mothers, especially with so many absent fathers. If a woman cannot teach a man how to be a man, then equally a man cannot teach a woman how to be a woman - that seriously cannot be your argument. As to the Genesis accounts... Genesis 1 Carrie's no hierarchy, no separation and no order to human kind... both are man in the image of God, both created after the animals and considered good, both given the mandate to be the image or representative of God to the rest of creation, both told to care for creation, both told to multiply and fill the earth. If we are going to go by the Genesis 2 account then yes the man was created first and the woman second as (an equal) partner. If Genesis 1 priority is used that humanity are the crowning glory of creation because they are created last then woman is the crowning glory required for God to say His creation is good and complete which it was not before Eve because God says it is not good for man to be alone. If Genesis 2 priority is used, as you suggest to indicate the man is the most important, then creation and the cosmos is more important the humanity and should be given control of humans. If all of your assumptions lie in the Genesis 3 account then that is a whole different discussion. And the reason I suggest Genesis 2 still maintains Eve as equal partner is because God creates one fitting to Adam, not a single animal, many of which could merely help Adam do his work, were a suitable partner. What Adam required was an intellectual equal, someone to procreate with to fulfil the mandate of filling the earth, and someone he could walk through life with and share his life with as one.
As to the passage in Timothy, the passage which is the one everyone pulls out, must be read in context of the New Testament in its entirety. Paul does not have issue with women and commends many women for their roles in leading house churches. The problem Timothy was facing which Paul is addressing is disorderly church services. Paul is likely seeking to ensure that only people who have had access to proper learning are able to teach, rather than asking questions constantly to learn during the service. Paul entrusted one of his letters to Phoebe to deliver to the churches, to read it for them and interpret Paul's words as necessary, meaning she must have known Paul's teaching well, and been trusted to teach the mixed sex churches she was visiting, therefore she would have been teaching men. It is difficult with letters in that we do not know what was said and written to Paul concerning Timothy's situation, but it is interesting that of the absolute mandate is for women to not teach men, then why do Jesus nor any of the other letters mention it!
Jesus clearly respected women, allowing many to follow him and sit at his feet to learn, a privilege on given to teacher's disciples. Not only that but the women are the first at the tomb and the first given the instructions to go and tell everyone Jesus' message, to be bearers of kingdom news, to share the gospel, to tell the men all that they had seen and heard. In a culture where women weren't even allowed to testify in law because their testimony was not accepted, it seems interesting that Jesus gives them this task. The women are invited into the role of disciples. It may beg the question of why Jesus did not have women amongst the 12... but this would have made controlling Jesus' timetable difficult. Only men were disciples at this time, and these 12 were to reflect the 12 tribes which had all been men. If Jesus had women as disciples, he would have been under more constant watch by the Jewish authorities, and therefore been harder to teach the disciples how to follow, and the people of their need to repent and see the kingdom was at hand, and to know that their God was dwelling with them. The authorities would have sought to change God's plan, at least with men only he would have been just another one of many wandering teachers - admittedly one claiming to be God and performing signs and wonders but the authorities seem slow to recognise these and constantly ask to see signs of His identity.
@@kathymiller4332
"Let us hear the conclusion of the matter...."
How many women Apostles did Christ appoint?
Answer NONE!
How many women of the Twelve Disciples were women?
Answer! NONE!
So you women, must obey St, Paul's instructions and STOP fighting God's declared Will.
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
Now, regarding the false teaching for the emancipation of women in the Christian fraternity.
Such 21st-century beliefs are in contravention and defiance of the Lord's command for women to remain silent in the church assemblies.
"As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God's people),
34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also says.
35 But if there is anything they want to learn, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to talk in church [ for her to usurp and exercise authority over men in the church].
36 What! Did the word of the Lord originate with you [Corinthians], or has it reached only you?
37 If anyone thinks and claims that he is a prophet [filled with and governed by the Holy Spirit of God and inspired to interpret the divine will and purpose in preaching or teaching] or has any other spiritual endowment, let him understand (recognize and acknowledge)
that what I am **writing to you is a command of the Lord**.
38 But if anyone disregards or does not recognize [ that it is a command of the Lord], he is disregarded and not recognized [he is one whom God knows not].
1 Corinthians 14:33-38 (AMPLIFIED ,BIBLE)
Thus if any insist on disregarding the Lord's command for a woman's silence they have become "One whom God knows not"
Which is a most undignified and ungodly position any man or woman could possibly find themselves.
For Christ ordianed St. Paul's instructions make it quite plain that women are forbidden to teach men and must not usurp their God given authority.
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression"
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
As for wives and their Divinely appointed permanent position in regards to their husbands.
"22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. "Ephesians 5:22-24 (KJV)
Thus complete obedience "in everything" to husbands, just as the church is called to be completely obedient to the laws and instructions of Christ and his personally ordained Apostles.
Now from St. Peter:
"You married women, be submissive to your own husbands [subordinate yourselves as being secondary to and dependent on them, and adapt yourselves to them], so that even if any do not obey the Word [of God], they may be won over not by discussion but by the [godly] lives of their wives,
2 When they observe the pure and modest way in which you conduct yourselves, together with your reverence [for your husband;
you are to feel for him all that reverence includes: to respect, defer to, revere him-to honor, esteem, appreciate, prize, and, in the human sense, to adore him, that is, to admire, praise, be devoted to, deeply love, and enjoy your husband]."
1 Peter 3:1-2 (AMPLIFIED BIBLE)
And St. Peter again:
"5 For it was thus that the pious women of old who hoped in God were [accustomed] to beautify themselves and were submissive to their husbands [adapting themselves to them as themselves secondary and dependent upon them].
6 It was thus that Sarah obeyed Abraham [following his guidance and acknowledging his headship over her by] calling him lord (master, leader, authority).
And you are now her true daughters if you do right and let nothing terrify you [not giving way to hysterical fears or letting anxieties unnerve you]."
1 Peter 3:5-6 (AMPLIFIED BIBLE)
Those women and wives who refuse to comply with the Lord's commandment for their silence in the church assemblies are not the true "Daughters of Sarah" but counterfeits who are trying to subvert other women into disobeying Christ's personally ordained Apostles, and their unchanging instructions for the true and faithful Daughters of Almighty God.
For the Lord Christ has well stated....By their fruits shall you know them".
@@robertomontanez1163
"Let us hear the conclusion of the matter...."
How many women Apostles did Christ appoint?
Answer NONE!
How many women of the Twelve Disciples were women?
Answer! NONE!
So women, must obey St, Paul's instructions and STOP fighting God's declared Will.
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
Now, regarding the false teaching for the emancipation of women in the Christian fraternity.
Such 21st-century beliefs are in contravention and defiance of the Lord's command for women to remain silent in the church assemblies.
"As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God's people),
34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also says.
35 But if there is anything they want to learn, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to talk in church [ for her to usurp and exercise authority over men in the church].
36 What! Did the word of the Lord originate with you [Corinthians], or has it reached only you?
37 If anyone thinks and claims that he is a prophet [filled with and governed by the Holy Spirit of God and inspired to interpret the divine will and purpose in preaching or teaching] or has any other spiritual endowment, let him understand (recognize and acknowledge)
that what I am **writing to you is a command of the Lord**.
38 But if anyone disregards or does not recognize [ that it is a command of the Lord], he is disregarded and not recognized [he is one whom God knows not].
1 Corinthians 14:33-38 (AMPLIFIED ,BIBLE)
Thus if any insist on disregarding the Lord's command for a woman's silence they have become "One whom God knows not"
Which is a most undignified and ungodly position any man or woman could possibly find themselves.
For Christ ordianed St. Paul's instructions make it quite plain that women are forbidden to teach men and must not usurp their God given authority.
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression"
1 Timothy 2:10-14 (KJV)
As for wives and their Divinely appointed permanent position in regards to their husbands.
@@earnestlycontendingforthef5332 You seem to have the impression I don't know how to read the bible, that I have not read these verses repeatedly, and that I need to have all the text written out for me. None of that is true. I have read these verses many times, in multiple translations.
Kathy!
If you have read the verses repeatably then obey them and all will be well, and you will be showing Spiritual integrity by so doing and pleasing Almighty God in the proccess.
Finally, you gave me a clear understanding of 'greeting each other with a holy kiss'. I knew it was cultural and it wouldn't apply directly to our own culture, but it clicked, now it makes sense. Thanks!
Hi Mike,
Something that I found helpful in changing the usage of the word "church" in regards to people not to a physical location is adding the word "building" when speaking of the location. It is simple but it worked for me. I have also started referring to the people as the congregation or the people when inside the building. lol
This was such a great message. Thank you For being so consistent in the Word.
Because I spend a LOT of time in the Word. Never take anyone else’s word for it.
@Patrick Montgomery you seem like someone desperately seeking attention
There’s no scriptures in the Bible that God called a woman to preach or teach the word of God or they got called a woman apostle or bishop or deacon or pastor if you do these things you are in error you are going against the word of God you are lying on God and you will find yourself in hell if you don’t repent
@@vegeta3394 amen brother judgement awaits these liars
CHURCH means people...
NOT building.
keep proclaiming this message...
Louder!!!!!🙌🏼
Actually, it can mean either or both, depending on how it's used! Example: Turn right at the church (building) on the corner. Our church (people) is cooking and delivering meals to anyone who calls and is in need of food. In the English language, most words have multiple meaning, not just one!
@@karenpierce6424 but the biblical meaning only refers to a group of people, not a building. Our culture has added the definition of "building the church meets at", but the original biblical meaning is only the people.
It's very similar to calling your home "family".
It's like saying "my family has family time at family", instead of saying "my family has family time at home".
Church means Ecclesia in the original [an assembly of called-out ones].
I've never heard anyone make a list of names so interesting and meaningful. A lot to think about. Thank you for sharing.
We cannot "save" anyone, but God saves souls. We as God's servants are called to "win" souls into Christ. "Whoever win souls is wise."
So Christ in us saves others.
@@afkcnd2395 I am only God's vessel to sow seeds (the word of God) to others. The power of God brings the increase. It's all of God and none of me.
@@lorielogan1816 Well humility is a good thing but we must stay biblical.
If it was all of God it wouldn't be a good work, they would be no reward.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:4
There is a reward for saving souls therefore its a good work, you have your part in it. But you only work because God created the will in you.
There are plenty of verses on this, Paul called Christians he's work.
@@afkcnd2395 One plants, another sows, but God brings the increase. Be blessed!
@@afkcnd2395
1 Corinthians 3:6-8
6. I have planted, Apollos have watered; but God gave the increase.
7. So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither is he that watereth; but God giveth the increase.
8. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one; and every man shall receive his reward according to his own labour.
That is why I said it is ALL of God who brings the increase. God does not need me, but I need him. He can choose anyone he decides to do his will but he receives all the glory. Amen!
Love that final application. It’s honouring to the Lord if we see our bothers and sisters with eyes of faith, letting their strengths and successes in the Lord jump out at us, and their shortcomings be covered by the blood that we know will guide them into growth. I want to see who God is making you into, not your old self, even though I know there is still a daily battle.
Good stuff! The church I attend we refer to each other as brother/sister. I love it! We are siblings in Christ.
I wonder about titles because Paul said "greet the brethren by name." In my opinion, titles only address a portion of the person, where their name addresses the entire person. It's like the name of Jesus addresses ALL His titles. That is my take. We may all be brothers and sisters but each person is unique and different. I think it would drive me crazy to hear everybody being called brother or sister. It seems so impersonal.
@@graftme3168 Nah you’re overthinking it.
@@justchilling704 I didn't have to overthink it, it just rubs me wrong.
Excellent teaching and insight the Church has taken for granted today. Thanks for the simplicity shown to a very complex issue today.
I have been looking through his videos for a couple of weeks and I have to say that I am extremely impressed with his wisdom and understanding from such a relative young pastor!
I like it "Christians are noble people"
Listening from Tanzania Nov. 2021
One of the problems with deacons and deaconesses from a modern perspective is the misnomer in some churches of calling what the early church called "elders" as "deacons". An elder is a church leader, in the role of making decisions for the church body. Deacons are those who serve the needs of the body in practical ways.
The whole problem to begin with is that the Greek word only became defined as "a servant" in the 3rd century by the RCC.......
Before that every usage I could find was that of "one who serves as a minister".........
@@kennethcadwell2124 what is the RCC? Thanks.
@@annlowry9841 RCC is the Roman Catholic church........
The Protestant churches started (Reformation movement) to counter the false teachings of the RCC. However to this day some Protestant churches still hold to some of the corruption the RCC did.......
@@kennethcadwell2124 ohhhhh...i feel so stupid now 😂😂😂. I should have figured that out. Thanks.
@Kenneth Cadwell do you mind sending me an article or study on either this specific word being manipulate by the RCC, or the topic as a whole? Just interested to learn more :) thanks!
I enjoyed that so much, like the way Mike dug through scripture to see deeper
"One day I'll do a talk from the passage in Timothy you are all thinking of right now." Please! Your teaching is balanced and well researched. As someone who works in evangelism and apologetics I'm always being asked to speak in different places - mostly outside of churches but occasionally within. I have trouble trying to work out where the line is. I've been doing ongoing personal study on the topic, but many books seem to have completely contradicting things to say about the original Greek and the context.
Help a sister in Christ out. I'd appreciate your take.
@Patrick Montgomery are you a Christian?do you understand the Holy Scriptures
@@justsobritish kind of echoed on Paul. But looking at old testament it wasn't so restricted. Looking as jesus he had Mary Magdelen. There is a warning about treating woman well as we are cosharers in heaven. We are not supposed to lead that's all. Decon is about right.
@@Odo-so8pj Ohhh Tammy. I appreciate your response. "We're not supposed to lead, that's all" I wish that answer clarified everything.. Alas: Not supposed to lead - how and where? Is that in a secular context or a church context? Is it just in marriage or within the church as a whole (I've heard it argued that Timothy is talking about marriage here not necessarily about church leadership). Women can prophesy in church (implied in 1 Cor. 11:5). And Philip’s daughters prophesy (Acts 21:8-9) but what is new testament prophecy? Some say it's the same as teaching. Is it? What is the difference? When it says authority (authentein) in Timothy is that oppressive authority or is it good leadership (some say the Greek says different things on that)? What about leading a church service? Did Lydia lead a service in her own house or not? Not to mention the whole deacon issue. The description of a deacon is a husband of one wife (1 Tim. 3:8-13) yet Phoebe is a deacon. Why did Paul not use a gender neutral description? Why did Paul not specify that women could be deacons too? What does a deacon even DO? Can a deacon preach? Can a deacon make decisions about the wider church, same as an elder? Administer sacraments? I have more questions but I’ll leave this as a starting point.
@@justsobritish quick response to one of your questions: in the Koine Greek the masculine is often used as generic, including both male and female.
@@justsobritish I am crushed to hear Mike say that. I now feel that God does not love me as much as he loves my brother. I don't necessarily WANT to be a pastor, but why would God deny me if I did? Am I only good enough to sponsor a male pastor financially, or serve the darned coffee?
I had a dream of the number 16 then the words ROMAN- in searching studies on RUclips I came across your video! Insightful💯
Please do a sermon on 1 Timothy. It's one of the only passages I can't get my head around
First Timothy wasn't written for everyone to understand. It was was written specifically for the church leaders. First Timothy is a personal letter and a handbook of church administration and discipline from Paul to Timothy (a young leader (minister).
Does anyone know if he ended up doing one yet? I agree
Dr. Craig Keener deals with the woman apostle passage on a Remnant Radio episode and shows that although not without question, the reference is to these people being apostles and not just known By the apostles. This section of scripture (Romans 16) pretty much supports women in ministry.
Hi. Well I'm 7:47 into this video & Mike is just rambling. Trying to figure out what his point actually is. People, please remember that we hold no man's brilliance higher than the Lord's wisdom....
Don't be nitpicky please have patience
Good morning Tim. Thanks for the reply, but I don't believe I was being nitpicky. Was merely making a point. I have listened to and watched many of his videos and mike tends to do this. I don't know if he's just trying to fill in time or if he feels he needs to explain his brilliance. Either way, I apologize if I offended you. I'm curious though, what is your take on this video and the topic Mike was covering?
D MO, if you’re not being fed, go elsewhere to be fed: The food Pastor Mike serves is good and your take is interesting but of little use to anyone.
@Kevin Belgrove I'm not sure what your argument is. Spit it out
@Kevin Belgrove I'm not sure what your argument is . Are you just babbling?
I loved this. Thanks pastor Mike
What we need to understand is that the statement" noted among us" does not denote same as. You can be noted among those whom are present yet not be of the same work.
When I was setting up for the book of synonyms that I'm writing, I found this chapter and the meanings of the names became very interesting to me. The meanings of the names were very interesting to me.
Excellent teaching. I loved all of it! I loved the part toward the end about the Holy Kiss. It reminds me of when Judas kissed Jesus. I do think it could be a kiss on the cheek. Many times, men greet men and they kind of air kiss on both sides of their faces. It is like a hug and a gesture of love and friendship. That is why Jesus was so upset with Judas. He acted like he was his friend while stabbing him in the back.
Jesus wasnt upset with judas he knew beforehand who would betray him .that's why he said do what you have to do quickly
The son of pedition was lost so that scripture might be fulfilled
This custom is practiced on my mother's side of the family I was adopted into. It's not uncommon in Middle Eastern practice either. Usually, it's a greeting and kiss peck on the cheek.
That was really beautiful, I hope one day to center my church life around Christ like the first guys did, like Paul, Phoebe and Alexander. And they are basically normal people, no mega prophets, no super christians, and some not even Jews. Just with love and passion for Christ, doing what they can, and occasionally being, like, named in the credits. ( lol )
that is the amazing thing, about these types, of studies...they seem to be Biblical....but the results, of the study...are no where to be found....
@@philipbuckley759 Please be a little plainer, can't quite get the true meaning from what you are saying !
Mr Winger, I have listened to several teachers over the years and beleive me when I say you rank up in the top. It's nice to see someone teaching the bible with a true desire for people to learnand and not just promote an agenda. Was curious about what bible you were reading out of ?
Keep up the good work !
I'm pretty sure it's the ESV.
Believe*
I am so glad I stumbled on this teaching. You made the teaching so clear. I appreciate your humble tone when there were things that you were not sure or should I say could not prove biblically one hundred percent. I think its so important for people to know that when things are not a hundred percent clear to us in the Bible, its ok. We are ALL forever learning and growing with expectation for clarity in Christ. Again thank you for a wonderful teaching it was great!
Mike, dude, you are mistaken about Junia. Scholarship has confirmed that she is a woman and that she was an apostle. In the future, when you have time, these works should settle the lingering doubts you seem to have.
Eldon Jay Epp, Junia: A Female Apostle for the definitive book treatment.
The articles by Richard Cervin, Linda Belleville, and Richard Bauckham have demonstrated this beyond a reasonable doubt. The church fathers, not known for their egalitarian views, confirm her apostleship and femaleness.
Come join the table with good scholarship. We have better biblical cookies!
Mr Winger has really opened my eyes to lots of Biblical stuff !!
Holy kiss means not that of lustful kiss of the world is practicing but an expression of brotherly or sisterly love...
21:23 when the pastor was interviewing me for a situation I was going through he left the door ajar slightly so that people could walk by and see what was going on. I think this is more than appropriate in all situations of mixed company.
its forbidden for women/girl to lead the church but its not prohibited to for them to preach
We call each other brother and sister because we are born of God and God is now our Father.
More damage to “the church” has been caused by using the phrase “going to church” than any other seemingly innocuous phrase among the church.
It reduces the Christian life to an event that happens one day of the week, puts the ministry of Christians in the hands of a select few, limits the gift of each person, and denies them the opportunity to genuinely mature and experience Jesus in greater ways.
It has empowered unbelievers to confine us to a building ie “Christianity is ok for you to observe in church, but don’t practice it out here.”
Lastly, because we have reduced church to a place we go, many pastors have reduced evangelism to: “invite a friend to church” and discipleship has become a 40-50 minute sermon each Sunday.
30:00ff, You say that we've never heard of them elsewhere. If they were well known apostles, why aren't they mentioned in Acts and the other letters? However, neither are Thomas, Thaddeus, James son of Alphaeus, Matthew, Simon the Zealot, Judas son of James, Andrew (even Andrew the brother of Peter), and Matthias, Judas's replacement. The only original eleven apostles that are mentioned in Acts or any of the other letters are Peter, James and John, and this sparingly. Only Peter, John and Matthew have letters and or Gospels attributed to them while James the brother of John is mentioned once in Acts when he's executed in Acts 12. In other words, after the initial list of all the eleven apostles midway through Acts chapter one, appx 70% of the eleven (twelve counting Matthias), are never heard from again throughout the rest of the NT. So it shouldn't surprise anyone that Andronicus and Junia aren't mentioned in elsewhere.
I have a question. I know of a woman who founded more than 300 churches in Honduras, winning the souls and
establishing leadership in each local church. She laid the groundwork, the doctrine is Biblically sound and the fruit is good. Those churches are thriving and reproducing. Is she now a false minister and those churches false churches because she is a woman?
There is neither jew nor gentile. Man or woman. Old or young but all are one in Jesus. The leading of the Holy Spirit is not to be diminished by religious men and women. "Determine between your selves whether or not it is good to serve man rather then God, but for me I shall serve the Lord."
Do children receive a different Spirit then the elders? Do Jews get a better Spirit then the gentiles? Do men have better listening skills to the Holy Spirit then women? If one speaks of her self then she has no business being in ministry. However the same can be said of men as well.
If she isn’t following the Bible then yes. It tells women not to preach but to teach the kids. Head of the kids is the woman , head of woman is man and head of man is Christ
@@robertomontanez1163 when led by the Holy Spirit children can teach. The youngest king was an eight year old. However, will we have ears to hear what the Spirit says?
In regards to saying, the Holy Spirit is restrained or rather 'restricted' is *excuse me* but garbage.
It was bold women that spoke with authority in the Holy Spirit, laying hands on me to delivered me from homosexuality.
The woman that discipled me, used to be a witch. It was the love of Jesus that touched her life. She left the demonic power that she had. Now standing in the authority of Jesus the Messiah, through the Spirit of God, walks in deliverance ministry. She, her daughter, 2boys, and myself. Whether it be casting out an unclean spirit of homosexuality, fear, confusion, self righteousness, manipulation, bitterness, etc. The same commission was given to any that believe. Salvation and the GoodNews of the "Kingdom of Heaven" or the "Reign of God" is within who ever asks and believes.
We have witnessed the Father move several times in our lives. Whether it be deliverance for a Luciffarian, an Atheist, or even a Christian. We have seen so many be delivered from oppressive and possessive spirits.
I warn and erge you not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit! The Pharisees said that Jesus casts out demons through the name of Beelzebub because he laid hands on the sick and cast out devils.
Through the same Holy Spirit, these wonderful sisters in Messiah and myself have layed hands on the sick and cast out demons. *And even raised a boy from the dead (this one happened before I met them. However I did get to meet the boy that was raised from the dead).* It's the Spirit of God who lives and dwells inside of us.
The Pharisees blasphemy the Holy Spirit by claiming it was demonic power. They slandered the gift of God as though it was unclean.
"But if you Blasphem of the Holy Spirit this will not be forgiven of you in this life or the one to come." -Jesus
Blasphemy is to slander the name or character of God.
Example: God is really okay if you break His commands there is grace.
*Blasphemy*
The Spirit of Grace empowers us to walk out righteousness that we couldn't because we once were enslaved to the law of sin in the flesh.
3 times in my life have different prophets ministered to me saying you will Lead many to Christ. Once when I was 13. He, the Prophet spoke and laid hands on me saying, "You will lead many to Christ." I thought to myself, "oh, that's nice. But, no thank you. I don't like to talk to people and I would rather observe people and listen. Then be in the spot light." 😅 8years later another lays hands on me and speaks the same thing and then I remember what I dismissed all those years ago. Only this time I was able to realize that it was a prophetic word and expounded upon. The prophet spoke as though it was God Himself speaking to me. Calling me 'little lamb'... only my mother called me that.
He said, ("Just as you have been my little lamb for all these years. I am raising you up to be a lion to seek out the lies of the enemy to destroy and Lead many.") A year later another prophecies the same thing. 2 years later as I am Leading a bible study of mixed people. A catholic young man gets all huffy and starts to say, "the apostles died out who can teach us. Are you an apostle? Have you had hands lain on you?" And the Father reminded me. ("I said you shall Lead many.") I responded, "I know I know."😒
Then again He said to me, ("I said you shall Lead many.") Then I stoped and said, "you did".
He then asked, ("is this not a position of office I have call you too"?)
I didn't want it to begin with but, through 3 prophets and God confirming 3times who am I and who are you to deny the voice of God.
"A kingdom divided against it's self can not stand." -Jesus
Why would the devil speak to me and lead people to Jesus. And cast out devils by devils? Is the devils desire that we obey and desire a relationship with God? To lead people to walk in righteousness? And to submit and surrender there whole life to Jesus? No. The adversary the devil is seeking like a lion whom he may devour. Kill, steal, and destroy. Not to heal, cast out them self and guide them to righteousness.
Again clamming that the Kingdom of God and the works of It, is of an unclean spirit,is blasphemy. Blasphemy of the Holy spirit.
You have not blasphemed, if I understood you correctly. But I wright to you in warning, to be careful not to stumble. I care for you brother, may the Father lead you and guide you by His Holy Spirit and His Word. Not by a man. SHALOM brother.
@Kevin Belgrove Amen Brother. I also use the name Yeshua. I am not a sacred namer. I have seen the Ruach HaQodesh heal in the name of Jesus many times.
If I had went to Mexico, people would call me Raquel. And similar in Hebrew. In French 🤷♀️ IDK. But I guarantee it is different. Will I be offended if someone calls me by another name that means Rachel, No.
There is power in the Name(Character) of Messiah.
You probably already know this brother. But, Hebrew is a action based language. The word, "name", in Hebrew is שם "shem". And this means character. So, when someone's named "Caleb" כלב it means loyal, the character of a dog.
"Rachel" רחל means lamb of Elohim, character of a little lamb.
"Yehoshua" יהשוע the character of Yehovah.
Is His name mystical, No.
But there is power behind the character of Yeshua. Belief in who He is and what He has done. The first and last, what He was and is and is to come.
When speaking to mainstream chriatianity. Normally I us the name Jesus.
-Blessing brother, Shalom.
@Kevin Belgrove You speak of things you do not know. I also had a Spirit of self righteousness. Thinking in the Scriptures and obedience I would have salvation. It was Jesus/Yeshua that lead me back to the Torah of Yehovah. I surrender ALL my life and He led me through His Ruach. I wanted to live to the T of what the bible said. And then found that I was being rebuked from the Father. He asked me, "was I not patient with you? Did I not draw you in by my love?" He gave me a dream. And showed me how His people are wounding each other.
I would like to ask you as you brother. Did Yehovah not draw you in by His Goodness. Or did He beat you and condemn you when you fell? The Father taught me that (speaking truth because you love someone is NOT the same as speaking truth in love.)
Brother I used to be a clanging cymbal. But It's the Goodness of Yehovah that leads all men to repentance. Salvation doesn't come by works of reading your bible every day and it doesn't come by even praying every day. Salvation comes by the Grace of Yehovah. His Spirit of Grace that empowers us to walk out righteousness. If salvation was by works then it would be not of Grace. But the Power of the Spirit of GRACE we walk out righteousness. We don't obey the law for salvation. We obey the law because we are saved form the bondage(slavery) of sin(breaking the law) in the flesh.
Blessings Shalom
Thank you Mike Winger. This was very a very good teaching on a chapter that i never quite pay any attention to. Very instructive. God Bless you , your ministry and family.
Junia being known by the Apostles does not make her an Apostle. This would contradict scripture and slander the testimony of the whole Bible that has no examples of a woman in a position of leadership over men called and sanctioned by God.
Wrong! Read Acts. Four women are mentioned as heading churches
@@detroitbaby161 which part of Romans? Thank you.
Awesome teaching Mike! Ive been wondering about this, this teaching is an answer Ive been praying for. Im a very studious person and I study Scripture a lot and God has given me much wisdom, it seems I have a gift for it but because Im a woman I wasnt sure if its appropriate for me to engage in theology/doctrine with men.
There is not one use of Junia as a male in the Greek with over 150 name references between 0-150AD ... look up Junia project
1 Tim 2:9-15
Justin Chamberlain I don’t see the name Junia in that passage. I guess I must need my eyesight checked. What I saw was a letter Paul wrote specifically to the new church in Ephasus addressing, not gender roles, but the issue of false teachings. Like if a politician becomes a Christian and then believes that automatically qualifies him to be a pastor. It doesn’t, he needs to be quiet, sit down, and learn what it is to be a Christian first. That is what he is saying to these women. Women who were likely leaders in pagan temples. They needed to learn before assuming any authority. Do an in depth study on the original words and meanings and you’ll find that what he says is actually closer to “I do not (presently) permit a woman to teach or exercise her authority inappropriately over a man”. If you read the whole book you will see the constant concern is being properly equipped before assuming leadership in the church. If you look at the whole of Paul’s writings you see him exalt women in leadership. Context, context, context.
There is irrefutable evidence that every region of the early church had deaconesses.
These were soon restricted to widows. But that wasn’t biblical.
We are also missing our women in the women’s ministry according to Titus 2. No man should be counseling young women, according to Titus.
Your point being?
Have you read the writings of early church father (4th century) John Chrysostom? Archbishop of Constantinople? He and his contemporaries identify Junia as male...
Good teaching, thank you and God bless!!
Not cliche...been saying Brother and Sister since i was a kid. The church of God out of Tennessee has been saying that for generations
Same ive always said brother and sister out of southeast Louisiana
Praise God for good teachers of the Word. What a gift you are given. Thank you for sharing.
So, I have a question about the role of women in certain churches. I was always in churches where the main pastor was a man, but women were on the pastoral team as pastor assistants, certain women (e.g. the pastor's wife) were also holding sermons. Your gender did not matter, just your qualifications. And it was really good. Then I went with my husband to a Calvary Chapel for one year and I was shocked as in church culture shock. Maybe it was just that specific church, but somehow women weren't allowed to do anything, except for watering plants and cooking food for the potluck party, helping in the women's ministry and being a member of the welcome team, translation team, kids team and worship team. Essentially still everything, but there were some things that were not allowed and it just frustrated me: Women weren't allowed to hand out the elements of the communion. The pastor would always ask random men to do that, never women. There is no biblical basis for that in my opinion and I found it oddly disturbing that I was not allowed to hand bread and wine to a brother or sister in Christ. Second was that women were not allowed to lead a homefellowship group if men were participating. I understood it has to do with the infamous 1 Timothy 2:12, but I thought that was just too much...the same goes for third, women weren't allowed to lead worship. And that made it complicated for me because I play guitar and sing and they just did not manage to get me into a band. They rather asked men who could barely play three chords. They were really doing a good job with encouraging young men to teach and to lead despite the fact that they were extremely disorganized and untalented and only served half-heartedly. I know that sounds mean, but there were a couple of men who had five ministries at the same time (e.g. teaching, welcome team, worship, homefellowship group and kids ministry) and they were burnt out. All of that threw me into a spiritual crisis to be honest. I thought that God does not love me as much because I am a woman, especially that I had not been allowed to lead a worship team had really crushed me, because I had led worship in my former church's youth group and it was kind of the one talent I have. But talent did not matter for some odd reason, only gender. We left that church after laying out a fleece in a sense. And now I am back in a church where I can lead worship in the homefellowship group and it's a real blessing.
But the question I was pondering was, does it really just have to do with that verse in Timothy which is already considered one of the most difficult passages in the New Testament? Wasn't it a sort of misogyny after all? Cause I felt really strange...the pastor never called me by my name, always called me "girl". And it feels so forced to look at what could maybe all be considered authority over men. According to their logic I wouldn't even be allowed to give directions to a man if he is searching for a location.
Also, by the way, I believe Andronikos and Junia were apostles in the sense of missionaries. I don't think "well-known to the apostles" as in the 12 apostles would make much sense, but because the Greek word episemos does not mean "well-known", but rather "outstanding", "remarkable", literally "being marked", the noun sema meaning sign. Also, I just think he wants to point out that they are really good missionaries, wants to praise them. I don't think the information that other apostles know them well would be considered a compliment neither would it be interesting to the people who receive the letter. And also I don't know if Paul could really speak for all the other apostles.
Hi Kadda, you raise some interesting points. I think the Churches you were a part of were both extreme and there is a balance between the 2. It's clear in scripture that the only exception in role that women miss out on is elder/teacher over men (I don't think it forbids women teaching or leading women). When you look at current persecuted Churches in China the elders of those Churches are targeted and are sometimes arrested and killed. Call me old fashioned, but I would protect a woman from that role in that environment. It is only in the West that this is an argument because it seems like such a prominent celebrity like role inside the Western Modern Church - which was never the original intention. There is even instruction in the Bible to not be "eager" to be a teacher because they are judged more harshly. I think the reason Paul references Adam & Eve in Timothy because we as the Church are not to represent "the fall" where the "roles" and "authority" were reversed, rather we are to represent the God given roles and authority that he ordained. It is never a question of value. Both genders hold the same value. Hope some of these thoughts help :) Bless you.
@@Sbock86 Did not see your reply at all, I somehow don't get notified about them...
My main problem with the passage in Timothy is that first of all it is really hard to translate, second the reasoning with Adam and Eve makes no sense at all in that context. You know, it literally says that woman have to bear children in order to be saved unless you translate it more like being saved as someone who bears children. But for that the context of the gnosis is necessary (which is kind of given by the epistle). A lot of that reasoning would make sense as a response to gnostic false teaching in which Eve was seen as someone who enlightened Adam, even gave life to him, and Adam was deceived by Jaldabaoth, and childbirth was considered a damning sin. I read a book by Catherine Clark Kroeger about that. It was really interesting.
If a woman can be a teacher to women and children, she can also teach men, I think. I think that we are supposed to teach through the Holy Spirit and would it make a difference then?
I think the conservative standpoint where women are held back does more damage than good.
kadda1212 interesting response. Thanks for making it civil, not emotional. Yeah it does make a difference. I still believe it is distinctly a role for men - it is clear that a teacher and an elder seem to go hand in hand. I just don’t get why women have a problem with being able to do everything else but that one thing God reserved for men. (Hang on, maybe I do - eat from all the trees except this one) Jesus even had the perfect opportunity to choose a female representative to show this example, yet he chose 12/12 men. The other thing is that there is encouragement NOT to become teachers because of harsher judgement. Pastors in persecuted churches are targeted and they are dragged, beaten and sometimes killed. As a man who would want to protect them from that danger I would find it downright evil to expect a woman to hold that role in a situation like that. I think the problem we have in the West is that it is a very glamorous role so it is somewhat appealing, when clearly in the Bible it is not. I’m just gonna leave this here too: I’ve heard a lot of sermons and men are just frankly better at it. No shame in saying that.
kadda1212 I realise I repeated most of my last post due to it being a delayed response lol....have a blessed day!
@@Sbock86 I thought 12 disciples due to the 12 tribes, we all have to represent Christ though regardless of who we are. Why want something? It's not so much about wanting rather than using your talent. And some women have teaching talent. And men should not want either. It's not about what we want. It's not about honor or glory, just about sharing something - giving advice to someone who needs it or so.
Some Pastor Said became a prophecy in this Days.. God bless
YOU Are chose Man of GOf to spread his HOLY words.. God Bless Your Ministry..
According to Titus 2, you should have pastoral women teaching younger women-especially in the context of counseling. Men should not be (especially) privately counseling young women directly.
I’m not saying these are female elders in the overseer sense. But they are older women in pastoral roles.
You’re young. I’m quite a bit older. I can’t tell you how wise Paul was in this instruction!
No they are not women in pastoral roles....
A woman's pulpit is her home and her kids are her church
dieselcowboy777, people have been debating this one for years. One verse is telling us who taught Apollos about the Holy Spirit. We have judges and prophets in the OT who are women. Deborah may be the only one mentioned as a judge but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t more.
dieselcowboy777, who was the first evangelist? The woman at the well or Mary Magdalene? It wasn’t a man
@@michaelbrickley2443 oh geez....she was not an evangelist....that is absurd
She was just telling people her testimony
Very insightful
My position, although many feminist hate this, is that the pulpit ministry is not more important that personal ministry and possibly less so. We place too much emphasis on what goes on in the building and not what we are to do in our lives.
Amen. I also feel well put too many “hats” on our pastors and elders and other should be sharing those loads.
Especially elders teaching as the Bible states they should be able to do as qualifications to be an elder.
When is the last time you heard an elder preach regularly in your church?!
I would think both evangelism and discipleship to be more important since it is directly ministering to the unsaved and also biblically teaching and directing new converts about Bible apologetics. That has a lot of importance because when you guide new disciples you are laying their biblical foundations to discern wisdom and truth and set them on their spiritual “working out of their salvation”. We need the right biblically-minded people in discipleship and teaching positions in our local body of believers.
That’s exactly how I feel. As a women I’ll happily let a man lead a gathering a church members because I know that my job as serving my community and raising a family holistically is vastly more important. Like Mike said, you can’t be a teacher unless you have someone evangelizing to bring you more believers to teach.
Well, I went off on a rabbit trail with the phrase "Let the chips fall where they may" and his response was salsa. I always thought it was about poker. Come to find out, it's a logging term. When they would cut down trees, the chips would go flying in all directions. Who knew.
Show compassion or show affection? They're 2 different things.
Your ending conclusion was so well summarized by saying Paul couldn't have had higher standards but had many good things to say about the believers he knew.
According to Strong's prostatis
means patroness, but it's also the feminine form of a derivative of proistēmi, which means to stand before or preside over others. I'm not sure that should be glossed over, especially considering how Paul used the marriage relationship and "the man" and "the woman" to teach much deeper spiritual truths about Christ and the Church. He was not addressing believers according to the flesh when he said "I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence," or when he referred to "silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts;" any more than he was referring to literal infants when he spoke of those who were "babes in Christ." Spiritually speaking, it is "the woman" who need to be "delivered of the child," which is why Paul speaks of the Church in terms of "Eve" and how "she will be saved in childbearing," IF THEY "continue in faith..." Isaiah makes very similar references to women, children and babes in reference to the spiritually immature. Regardless of our particular gender we are all considered part of the body or "bride" of Christ (ie, Eve, the woman), yet we are also all called to stand in Christ's stead as "sons of God." We do that by being "delivered of the child" that "a man" can be born into the world (= CHRIST in you, the hope of glory). Even Jesus likened his MALE disciples to "a woman" whose hour is come. There is more to the Bible than just the letter, or the literal words. Anyone who can read can read the words, but it takes more than the ability to read the words to actually understand the message - fully. That is one of the things that, to me, proves that Bible did come to us through Divine inspiration. So while I don't think Junia was an Apostle either, I wouldn't go so far as to say that any position of authority in the church is to be determined according to the flesh. 1 Ti 3:11 in the KJV reads: "even so their wives" (as if speaking about the wives of the deacons and Bishops just being discussed), but gunē is not limited to "wives" and some literal translations render the verse "Women in like manner....", which could mean that Paul was laying out guidelines for both men and women, not just guidelines for men and "their wives." As I have come to understand Paul, who said we are to know no man according to the flesh (not even Christ, though they once did), being a women is no more of a disqualification for serving than just being a man, alone, is a qualification. Even men (according to the flesh) need to be "delivered of the child." in order for the Word to come OUT OF THEM and not just TO THEM ONLY. (1 Cor 14:36) Paul speaks of himself in those same terms, speaking of being "a child" and becoming "a man," and of "travailing in birth AGAIN" with those whom he refers to a "my little children." So it seems apparent that we need to try to hear what the spirit is saying to the churches, and not just rely on our ability to read the letters on the page, which can be a stumbling block for us if we lack the spiritual maturity to hear the deeper truths being spoken to those who do have the ears to hear. It can be quite humbling when you realize, for the first time, that there is still so much to be learned. But it's also amazing!
What a gem of a sermon on a passage which looks so mundane! Thank you.
Isn't it interesting that we call a pastor by his calling but not the rest of the body of Christ? Hey Pastor Paul, hey teacher Dorkas :) , Hey prophet Phil etc...we dont't do that for the same reason we associate church with a building. We have all been conditioned to think church is like a big theater with a star and a band and some special effects and a schedule. Now who goes to a theater and considers the audience members to be family? It keeps people apart. Another thing I fond is that the church was meant to be for anyone to speak. If they had a word or a song etc....the were welcome to share. Even the synagogues let people speak. Look Jesus Himself who the Parisees dispised spoke in them. Gosh I could go on all day. We have a nice house church and we takwe turns gong from house to house each week. But in the summer we meet at the park on the lake.
Yeah. I've thought the same thing. My husband used to get offended when I would talk to one of the pastors and I never called him pastor, I just called him by his name or called him brother.
Very interesting and helpful teaching!
27:40 for Junia
Yes, people put way too much stock in a PREPOSITION in this passage.
I mean, it isn't egalitarians claiming the passage is unclear. The preposition is quite simple and clear in context. Junia was among the apostles.
@@DudeDisposableSoul that may be true but no one can say for sure the gender of Junia. Junia could be male or female but if you read the writings of John Chrysostom (4th century archbishop of Constantinople) him and his contemporaries noted Junia as a male apostle.
@@eldotjay We know for certain from early external documents like Papyrus 46 that Junia was both a woman and an Apostle. However those documents have been largely ignored by those who want to maintain the women have to keep silent fiasco. John Chrysostom was one of those who believe in the women keeping silent fiasco. It seems you are one of those too. Study the historical and cultural context of those verses and you may gain an understanding of what Paul was actually saying.
@@DudeDisposableSoul And early external documents like Papyrus 46 back up that Junia was both a woman and an Apostle.
@@nigeltremain1900 _Junia_ was a fellow prisoner with Paul & Andronicus. Did they house male and female together in jails in 1st century Greco-Roman culture?
I have studied and researched the history; _Epiphanius_ (315-403AD) in the index of Disciples says “Junias, of whom Paul makes mention become Bishop of Apameia of Syria.” The Greek phrase οὗ _hos_ (meaning of whom) is a masculine relative pronoun, and shows Epiphanius considered Junias a man. Furthermore, in Latin we have a quotation from _Origen_ (does 252AD) in the earliest extant commentary on Romans, says that Paul refers to “Andronicus, Junias and Herodian, all of whom he calls relatives and fellow captives” (Origen’s commentary on Romans, preserved in a Latin translation by Rufinus, ca. 345-ca. 410 AD, in J.P. Minge, Patrologia Graeca, vol 14, col. 1289). The name Junias here is a masculine singular nominative , implying that Origen, who is one of the ancient worlds most prolific scholars, thought Junias was a man.
Even with history tending to suggest Junias was male, I still would not make the assumption of Junias’ gender as it isn’t indicated in the passage of scripture. Nor is it indicated in P46. P46 literally transliterates the passage as “ἀσπάσασθε Ἀνδρόνικον καὶ Ἰουνιᾶν τοὺς συγγενεῖς μου καὶ συναιχμαλώτους μου οἵτινές εἰσιν ἐπίσημοι ἐν τοῖς ἀποστόλοις οἳ καὶ πρὸ ἐμοῦ γέγοναν ἐν Χριστῷ”. There is no gender inferred so to say P46 recognises Junia as female is very disingenuous. But if anyone was to know, then I would argue Epiphanius and Origen would likely know better as they lived much closer to the time of the apostles.
In a 2008 JBL article, Al Wolters argued that Iounian, accented on the second syllable, was the accusative case of Ἰουνίας, being a Hellenized form of the Hebrew name Yĕḥunnī, which would enable the possibility of this being a male name. (Bruce Waltke, An Old Testament Theology, 241.)
Great video. Thank you. We refer to our building as The Sanctuary. We are the church. Blessings
i try to use the word "fellowship" or "gathering" instead of " church" because it's now a bit confusing.
GodsWordSaves 7 how?
Tice Rippy
Because the word "church" brings to our mind images of church buildings and all these different denominations. The word "ekklesia", the word translated church, means a gathering, not a building. When someone holds a bible study, that is church. When someone has a prayer group meeting, that is church. Etc etc etc etc
Thanks Pastor Mike
Brother Mike, ;) This is how some in our circles may address each other.. great teaching my Brother in this obscure passage. But well expounded upon, I hear same thing in the word about women rolls. I just received revelation on what my calling is for the body!! I am so over joyed!! To be of service to my Church body.. And I give thanks to God for your teachings that helped my to hear God's voice deeper! All Glory to Christ our King!!
The bible does not call her an apostle
Very interesting, please talk about 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2 soon. Our pastor believes that women can't teach men so since God gave me a passion and ability to teach I am doing some work with kids and youth. But when does a youth become an adult? Parents are wanting to discuss the things that are facing us (digital babylon, sex, depression, etc) but because dads are male, I'm not allowed to teach this group yet no one else will. So do I just teach the moms? Yet this just leaves mom's feeling more alone in this and dad's less needed.
You’re really misunderstanding if you think that God has restricted the majority of the human race for all time from teaching the others. The sheer illogic shows that there’s something going on that Paul alludes to but doesn’t spell out because the people he’s writing to (church at Ephesus) know what he’s talking about (influence from the cult of Diana creeping into the church). This shows why Christians must be educated, or they run the risk of misinterpreting scripture.
@@Himmiefan how do you know this ?
“Great ministries happen with great relationships “
Love it ❤️
Kevin Belgrove I understand you brother.
so which is it yahushua or yahuah that salvation is found? They are not the same?
Elohim ??
My understanding (Jesus)is a translation from ORIGINAL. Hebrew to Greek to English.
LORD is also just a translation.
Cornerstone is probably a translation……..
Salvation (Sozo )probably a translation……..
The list goes on.
When I say God I’m talking about the God of the Bible. When I say Lord or Jesus I’m referring to the God of the Bible.
The creator of ALL
Lots of names for YAHWHE
Provider?
Healer?
Kevin Belgrove most Christians know Jesus real name. TRUTH BE KNOWN it’s a translation.
Easy to learn. Easy to understand. Scripture also reveals that GOD is 3 in one. Maybe three different names and parts, but still only ONE GOD.
True many church goers don’t truly BELIEVE the FATHER SENT HIS SON for many, and that will be revealed and has already been written down..
And your spelling it wrong. It’s Yahweh YHWH
ADONAI ELOHIM ……………..lol
Kevin Belgrove the only EXCEPTIONS is when a person is written in the lambs book of life but GOD will reveal his TRUE NAME????
Where is that in scripture?
I mean I believe HIS TRUE NAME is revealed and that the one who is saved from the beginning of time is well aware.
But I wouldn’t go around ADDING to the HOLY WRIT
And yes HE IS VERY MUCH GOD!!
My GOD
my LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST!!
YHWH IN THE FLESH!!
Kevin Belgrove you seem to be a good “law”’ abiding citizen.
And yes the scriptures (HOLY SPIRIT BREATHED) you present shows 2 of the 3 Deities of God.
Of course The spirit (God) leads us to the SON (God) that leads us to the FATHER
( ultimately GOD)
The truth the way and the life? No one comes to the father except through HIM. And if you SEE HIM YOU SEE THE FATHER.
The WORD IN THE FLESH.
A Scripture: "Study, to show yourselves approved of God Rightly dividing the Word of Truth.". This man, Apelles may have been a great student.
oh man i wish my church was close like family
Junia was an apostle, changing her name to Junio trying to make her a male was an abomination and changing the very word of God.
Thankyou & bless you . ❤️
The ESV says they were well known to the Apostles.... They were a married couple who was going the lords work
There is multiple documents from the first 5 centuries of the Church like Papyrus 46 that confirm Junia as a female Apostle.......
@@kennethcadwell2124 Have you written out your studies, or recorded them on video?
Mike already has a belief about a woman's role concerning authority in The Bible. Right, or wrong in his prejudged conclusions, he seems to go to lengths to find ways to "dumb down" what is seemingly quite evident about certain great women in The New Testament.
One can do this convincingly, but is it the reality of the Bible?
@@kathleennorton6108 I have written them down but what holds me back still is I want to make sure I am able to answer each question that could be presented to me. I am working on that though as I want to make sure I can do the work and what I say is only truth from scripture before I start posting things.......
For I don't want to be like a good portion of youtubers who I have seen that speak against certain doctrines while they themselves error in some things they say........
At least Mike here admits that even though he holds a certain understanding, that he hasn't actually done to much indepth research on the subject and would change his mind if he see's things in research......
So I simply gave him a little insight into looking into.the corruptions the RCC did starting in the third century.......
Me myself have though if you want to know my background. Have lead Bible studies, done prison ministry, and have gone around evangelizing........
I have also been called to counsel a couple people......
I have over 30 years in the Church, but only accepted my calling of what position the Lord wants me in 12 years ago........
@@kennethcadwell2124
2 Corinthians 8:23
As for Titus, he is my partner and fellow worker among you; as for our brethren, they are messengers of the churches, a glory to Christ.
Philippians 2:25
But I thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier, who is also your messenger and minister to my need;
Messenger being αποστολος in both of the above. I agree that Ιουνιαν is likely a female, but there is no cause to assume αποστολος is used in a technical sense here.
@@jasonr2771 first there is clearly more people called an Apostle in scripture then just the 12 and Paul. To water it down to meaning anything else is just a wrong approach in handling the original language......
For examples:
"Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, AS THE APOSTLES OF CHRIST." (1 Thessalonians 2:6)
Paul made this statement in reference to himself, Timothy, and Silas.......
So they were Apostles......
As for Junia again as I told another there is multiple other writings from the first 4 centuries of the Church that confirms Junia's identity......
Like Papyrus 46 which confirms both that she was a female and an Apostle.......
Yes mike , you are a noble Christian.
It’s interesting how women in the church have been so suppressed by bad teaching that it relegates them to the gifts of helps only. But one thing I have noted amongst many male teachers in particular; one’s personal belief towards women in general can easily filter their interpretation of the difficult scriptures concerning women in ministry in the church. In other words, where there are ambiguous passages, the automatic default is to limit the role of women. Explain away Psalm 68:11, a verse that in some translations was purposefully modified by male translators to exclude the Hebrew word for “women” thereby attempting to nullify their prominence and impact in the spreading of the gospel. This was obviously not intended by Almighty God or the scripture wouldn’t be there. And as I recall, both men and women were in that upper room on the day of Pentecost and the women received the same Holy Spirit and power as did the men and they were anything but silent, lest we trip over those passages that have shut the mouths of many a gifted female teacher. Also, to say that Priscilla’s name was mentioned first before her husband’s name because she was just better known takes away from the probability that she was a more gifted teacher than her husband Aquila. Why is that so hard for men (and even some women) to digest? Some of the greatest missionaries in the world have been women that have functioned in many roles, including that of Pastor and Teacher. In the church, there is neither male nor female (Galatians 3:28). Maybe we should interpret scripture through that filter as well. I appreciate your ministry Mike, I really do.
@@robertomontanez1163 What about a deaconess?
My experience is that churches are not good at supporting evangelism. I've always had to go with parachurch ministries in order to get any evangelism done.
Agreed! What would good support look like? Maybe a church where the pastor(s) are more directly involved in an evangelistic ministry?
I go to a Church in Australia. We have a husband and wife who are both Pastors and Apostles.
My husband wanrs to know why Peter is not mentioned in this passage. Thank you for this excellent teaching on Romans 16: 1-16.
Peter was never in Rome. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles. Peter was the apostle to the Jews. This is defined in scripture. The Catholic church claims the Peter was the first pope but there is no evidence of this claim that I know of.
'Aquila' sounds like a feminine name as well, but we know Aquila was male. 'Junia' was a fellow prisoner with Paul. Did they house female prisoners with men back in those days? Probably not....
"Epiphanius (315 - 403 AD), in Index of Disciples says, "Junias, of whom Paul makes mention, became Bishop of Apameia of Syria." In Greek, the phrase "of whom" is a masculine relative pronoun (hou) and shows that Epiphanius considered Junias to be a man. And in a Latin quotation from Origen (died AD 252), in the earliest extant commentary on Romans, says that Paul refers to "Andronicus and Junias and Herodian, all of whom he calls relatives and fellow captives" (Origen's Commentary on Romans, preserved in a Latin translation by Rufinus, ca. 345-ca. 410 AD, in J.P. Migne, Patrologia Graeca, vol. 14, col. 1289). The name Junias here is a Latin masculine singular nominative, implying that Origen, who was one of the ancient world's most proficient scholars, thought Junias was a man.
"
"In a 2008 JBL article, Al Wolters argued that Iounian, accented on the second syllable, was the accusative case of Ἰουνίας, being a Hellenized form of the Hebrew name Yĕḥunnī, which is normally a man's name."." [Bruce Waltke, An Old Testament Theology, 241.]
Thank you very much for your beautiful addition to the conversation.
You are a blessing to others.
Keep on spreading the truth and doing God’s work, brother in Christ.
I may have to type this comment to add to my notes so I can read the references
New sub, I really appreciate your unique and thoughtful message.
I'm sorry but I disagree with the mental gymnastics going on here. Jesus's disciples Bartholomew and one other apostle were mentioned but once in each of the gospel.
It's the same Spirit working in men and women
"3 For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having **itching ears**, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts; 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables."
2 Timothy 4:2-4 (ASV)
@@thewatcher96 Thanks...I never knew that was in Tim 2 V 3 heap teachers to themselves etc.
@@smiiler1000
It's in 2 Timothy 4:3-4