Shut Up with the "Too Feminine or Too Masculine" Rhetoric feat. Mal Wright
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Are you ready to break free from outdated social norms and discover the real power of being true to yourself? Mal Wright from Netflix's The Ultimatum is here to share her story of why she chose to end her engagement, why gender has no place in sex, and the one thing her next partner must have. Don't miss this inspiring story and get ready to experience the liberating effects of embracing your true self!
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As 2023 comes to a close, theres one trend Id love to leave behind - the whole masculine vs feminine conversation. It’s lazy, lacks nuance and creates rules for many that genuinely only apply to some. And I’m not alone in feeling this way
Mal Wright, the certified sweetheart from The Ultimatum is here to shed light on how ideals around masculinity and femininity have caused major roadblocks in her love and sex life
I love the way Mal articulates & carries herself. I can tell she’s done a lot of internal work. It’s so attractive.
Too sexy
For real, I could listen to her talk all day
If I ever met her and she invited me to converse with her I would let her know how beautiful she is and how mature cuz it’s rare and I’m queer as well so I would date her on some real lol not sure that she would date me but hey hahaha
@@Greycibennett I went through a little phase & discovered that it’s not for me, but she would make me reconsider. I just love her charisma. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Sooooo attractive
Mal has single-handedly carved a category for herself in what’s considered attractive and like Shan said: “we just need more of you”. What a beautiful person Mal is❤
I am in love with this woman. I love how she is able to hold herself accountable, respect her previous partner and be vulnerable at the same time. I feel like knowing someone like her with this much integrity would be blessing
Agreed. Such a good role model. I want to be like her in my growth journey. The accountability part......no truer words. She is likeable
Mal made me question my orientation for real 😂
I miss THESE conversations. I really love learning, exploring, and diving deep into conversations around sex and human sexuality. This episode was so informative with lots of layers. It really made me think. Thanks Shan!
Ahhh, I ❤ Mal! She's like a soft pillow, she's beautiful, her voice is like butter, her vibe is THE vibe, she's so articulate & thoughtful with her words...she is just so dope! Chile lemme stop gushing over this woman & go text my husband! 🤣🤣
I'd love to hear Mal doing ASMR, on the Calm app, or just reading a newspaper!
exactly forreal I fell in love with her and i'm a whole married woman
7
Can I ask a genuine question as a straight married woman how would you feel if you husband was gushing over another man in the same way .would it make you feel some type of way I am speaking specifically and generally can't straight men also have those same feelings without being labeled ?? Just a wild thought
@KyeyuneBatuma well most of the time not always straight men first go off of physical attraction then emotions but women we are emotional first most times
I love this my girlfriend definitely can relate to this topic. She told me how her previous partners use to try and make her more masculine since she’s more masc presenting but she likes being feminine too. I told her i dont care she can be whatever she wants and I’ll be happy! Funny enough she was exactly what I wanted someone who could be both and felt comfortable being one or the other given the situation. I’m more fem presenting but my personality is more masc and I use to have a hard time dating because I would get told I’m too dominant or masculine it was so frustrating. So now I found someone who allows me to be either or
Mal’s essence and personality is soooo relaxed. So soft. So comfortable in her own skin. I’m not saying she’s perfect but dang it she might be close.
Mal can really articulate her feelings and what she's experiencing so clearly, like that's a GIFT. So much packed into this episode WOW! Really loved the questions Shan asked and I loved hearing a new perspective on the whole Masc & Fem conversation at large.
I love mal and her description of being masc presenting but feminine at center, it resonates. I’ve had trouble growing up and trying to fit molds that never seem to fit perfectly but this description just hits the mark 👌 coming into my 30’s I’ve never been more confident in who I am and how I show up.
Genderless sex. That’s a new term I’ve learned today. & I definitely want to hear more about it.
THIS IS WHY I BECAME A FOLLOWER OF THIS PODCAST! CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS IS NOURISHMENT TO MY SOUL. This is so productive to human growth and listening to Mel is like having a cup of warm tea on a snowy morning.
Not to mention everything about her being attractive, I don’t care who you are, if you’re not gay Mel will make you check in with yourself 3 times!
These two brains together is a movement.
Genderless sex is a HELL YES for me!!!! I don't think I can have anything different at this point. Good communication and letting go of the roles = pleasure portal to the highest degree. I haven't found many folks who can comprehend this let alone be present enough and/or work through whatever is getting in their way to step into this. I want to give and receive pleasure and play as my standard way of life everyday all day. Is that too much to ask?! LOL
Hey lovers and friends - Can't wait to read your commentary on both the validity of assessing people's masculinity and femininity AND how awesome Mal is.
I've alteady offered Mal perfect blueberries in her DMs. And I'm here to reaffirm that you still deserve them 👑.
@1:04:44 who and what episode were you guys speaking about?
@@melrose6731 Sacred Sex Episode #46 ❤
@loversandfriendspodcast -- what is octopus eyes?! lol. I'm scared to dive into the internet to find out!
Mal speaks to me I mean REALLY speaks to my soul , I relate to her in a lot of ways . I also come from a older school way of the lesbian world and felt like I had to identify as a stud in my younger years bc I am masculine presenting and attracted a lot of women who were feminine presenting and did not understand my femininity. I now accept that I am feminine at my core while also presenting masculine and I love it , may this interview live on forever ❤
Stay safe out there 😊
Love that 💖
Mal is really one of the best people. I'd love to be her best friend or partner.
I feel you. I have gotten comments on how my appearance is masculine but my mannerisms are more feminine. Also, im very soft spoken. I actually like that sort of cognitive dissonance. In the midst of them trying to figure out “ stud, stem & etc..) I think it forces them to see me.
I love the way Shan practices telling people they’re wrong in the most neutral way. V refreshing
I am really proud of identifying as a woman. Having said that, I can't clearly articulate why. In conversation with my mom and sister topics like my relationship with my body, closeness with my emotions and deep connections with other women were some of the reasons why. It's kind of another conversation but at the same time not...
I really love the topic - its because of conversations like these that I will miss the podcast ♥
i dont label myself masc or fem, but i always get called masc by people, including my friends, and it makes me so dysphoric. even when i wear feminine clothes, they say i still look masc, but if a different looking girl wore the same exact thing, they'd still be considered fem or just wearing 'female streetwear'. it makes me so insecure, like im 'performing' femininity whenever i wear anything feminine.
I’m sorry hun, have you talked to them about how that makes you feel? You deserve to wear and be and present how you feel comfortable. We’re all some mixed balance of masc femme and everything in between. 💖
I feel the same but opposite situation of people seeing me as fem, I think what your face or body look like matters a lot to how people perceive you.
When Mel said I can be XYZ and still protect you… girl!!! ❤️❤️
man this episode rlly had me by the neck i was so sad when it ended 😂
Masculine presenting or not, you have to remember she's STILL a woman.
Mal has been my favorite non-stop since the show. I love seeing there are great people around. She’s so knowledgeable and makes me feel safe in spaces I’m not in! 😂
Thank you for listening Shan!! Been waiting for an ep like this!
I can not and will not be friends with any of my exes for several reasons. One my partner and I both agree it is Disrespectful to our relationship. Second, their intentions of having a friendship may not match yours.
I learned so much. Mal articulates her thoughts so well. I aspire to be as articulate.
Mal is so beautiful, inside and out. 5'10 is tall for a Woman, and there is nothing wrong or weird how she presents herself. That's what makes her beautiful. I love her self awareness because it is so refreshing and it's important. I think more of us should be more open to the possibilities of what this thing called love should look like. Especially in our community
Love Mal, and I relate so much to her points. Generally I feel like I don’t really fit into all these pre-defined boxes, but I get why they exist. Personally they are just a point of reference for me, and it’s important for me to have a partner who lets me feel safe in experimenting and evolving in our relationship (which luckily I do).
Mal is so cool. Love her
Mal had a peace to her & that's why everyone loves her energy
i wish i could hav remained friends with my exes….i loved them once and i’ll always love them….a lot of them feel guilty, and others have jealousy issues. and they have told me this…still sad, but i wish them the best. i never see them, never run into them at events…it’s clear we weren’t meant to be. i think people should be friends with their exes…they hav snap shots and intuition about you that you might not even hav yourself. friends should help you grow and vice versa. didnt watch whatever show this person was on, but public scrutiny is rough without a great foundation. but im glad she found the cracks in it out before she was stuck. seems like a great conversationalist, very in tune with herself. cheers to her.
Loved the Conversation! Mal def is in tune with herself more than 90% of people out here in these streets and wow that's so cool and refreshing to hear her perspectives and experiences explained so clearly!
The one thing lacking from this conversation is the Male perspective.... Like we have a straight female perspective (Shan) and a lesbian perspective(Mal) but be don't have the straight male perspective or the gay man's perspective. While it's cool to hear another side. For it to be a conversation that's well rounded I feel like all these perspectives need to be present for this discussion to bear fruit. When I say bear fruit I mean, there can be new understanding from all sides about what it means to be Masc or Fem and the unique pressures each group faces to present a certain way.
I'm lesbian who also told I'm little too feminine energy while I'm full on tomboy.....I'm consider a stem butch in lesbian community meaning I also mix my look into my feminine energy. That doesn't define or make me less has a lesbian just because I'm not stone 🪨 butch who only embrace her masculine look and energy. We should stop beating each other about this.
We are all both masculine and feminine. But i think there are times we are more go getters and times we relax or we use one more than the other. I think there is responsibility and heavy accountability for regardless of which side of yourself you are tapping into more depending on how you feel and the situation. I think regarless of what we choose to call that ebb and flow of energies we give off when interacting with the world or our loves ones there is a balance.
There is no right way or one way to enjoy sex. It does not have to be performative. I 100% agree with Mal on centering pleasure. For me, the aim is to really be in my body, and to enjoy all of the experience. It's a time where we don't have to think or operate from a place of shame. We can just flow. See where the experience takes me. I love that.
Love Mal ❤️ you can tell she’s just a genuine person
I love this! We're just human... The whole gender ideology made this really black and white, while people are not just gender, feminine or masculine, it's way too simple and lack nuances.
I need myself a Mal, and at the same time I want to become more like Mal! What an inspiration ❤
The idea of deconstructing the social norm of what's too feminine or masculine is something that should be talked about more. People get assumptions of who I am and what I might like because of how I'm dressed... my thing is I am a woman just because I'm masculine presenting doesn't mean my femininity doesn't exist. I feel like I have a balance between the two, and just because people don't understand me doesn't negate in any way who I am...
Loved this... Seamless chemistry that had me thoroughly engaged 💜
That last piece of advice Mal gave was so beautiful - studying abroad I just recently had that experience with someone where I felt safe to be me in a way I didn't know was possible
So yeah Mal, I'm pregnant and it's yours so you best come back on home now! Seriously though, when she said I can be all those things and still protect you it made me feel squishy cos for me that is everything I look for in a partner. Someone who will protect me as much as I will protect them.
Shannon you have done it again. You prove over and over why you are the queen of information, foresight, and human expansion.Thank you for having this conversation seeking balance in our gender expression is so necessary. Bless you! Humans think that because we have lasted so long we are okay, but there is so much more to life than survival. thriving is so necessary. may we all seek to thrive at our core!
Dam this was a great interview. I had mixed feelings about Mal after second half of the ultimatum but now it's easier to understand the hype, she's very human and still makes mistakes but it's obvious how intentional she is about her personal growth and development. Love her articulation, and highly resonate with the masc presenting femme of center. Never thought of it that way but i think I'm pretty similar lol
I always enjoy your podcast. I really enjoy it when there are LGBT conversations. LOVED this episode. Hopefully next time we can hear same gender loving male perspectives . 💛
I've never clicked on a video so quickly. Literally just woke up 😂
Thank you! for helping the human race get past all this nonsense. Extremely articulate and needed discussion.
I choose not to be friends with my exes because in my experience it was difficult to mutually detransition back to a platonic relationship. I found my ex saying and doing things out of resentment that I had broken things off. I don’t think it’s a red flag to remain friends with clear boundaries. Without those I’m not a fan. People say “oh I’m good friends with my ex(es). I ask some (or one) of them for relationship advice. No. I don’t want your ex in our business simply because that’s still your good or best friend.
I am in LOVE with Mel. When I saw her on the Ultimatum I really felt like we are soulmates who will probably never meet UGH!
I absolutely ADORED THIS EPISODE!!!!
6:00-6:24 so trueeeee! not many people realize this.
I love how Shan breaks down all the dichotomies in these masc/ fem formulations.
19:20 I don’t think most people are capable of remaining friends after a breakup.
Maybe it’s different in the queer community, but in the straight community, even if you don’t break up in some dramatic blow up, it’s probably not a good idea.
On both sides people tend to keep the ex as an “in emergency, break the glass” option if they stay “friends”.
. Shan should have stems/ stemmes on and then she can experience another confident sect/ person in he gay community. Many women know thier duality from the beginning or grew into it. themselve. We can express both equally & express that energy everyday or feel very feminine and dress that way one day, a mixed variation on another day, or very masculine on the next. I use to take alot of shyt from some potential femmes or stud partners because they wanted me to stay one way, usually, the way they met me. I never let anyone try to hold a role on me. Noone gets to shame or force me, if u dont find my dual side's attractive. My mood or energy change up is not intentional to offend/trigger you or your preference. I will not date or be around that neg energy. Imagine some lady walking up to u saying studs should were a sports bra and board shorts vs chilling braless or in a bikini at the pool? Damn,mind your business. Or, if i'm feeling very feminine w my heels, dress, nails, updo, and makeup...a femme suitor may feel turned off. Smh
Stand in your glory people and live. U will need to be strong in the blk gay community that has a lot of gender role, prejudices within it
Yayyyy more gayness!! Love these kinda episodes. Any recommendations for some good gay pods??
Just recently ran into one called “made it out podcast”. It’s new but I’ve enjoyed the episodes I’ve watched
@@lovelight8722 Yes, this is a great podcast. Also, Shannon Beveridge has a new one called Exes and O's , The Queerly Blax Show is my new fav. The Lesbian Chronicles, and Staying Up with Cammie and Taryn are great ones, too.
I just love Mal she is so amazing
Mal thank you for representing a diff type of masculinity. i am masc presenting and sometimes confused for a cis man but i am also very soft and embrace the feminine aspects of me which i show in my speech, mannerisms, how i care for others etc and it can be frustrating when others want you to be strictly masculine or feminine and cant understand or appreciate how someone can embody both. i think its beautiful that some people on this planet have a balance between both feminine and masculine energy and i think we have a special gift that is underappreciated
You might as well say "lion" and "lamb" to categorize two presumptive opposites. "Masculine" and "feminine" are symbolic language for denoting two poles of a spectrum of temperament and behavior. You can take gender out of it and still capture the essentials of two different orientations toward life. For instance, "goal oriented" versus "relationship oriented." Allow people to pick definitions that feel more comfortable than the polarizing terms of gender, where any deviation can feel like a failing. It's worth interrogating the anxieties behind the symbolic language we default to. It's less useful to try to understand actual people by this language.
@51:00 respect to you. Someone who accepts a challenge with such coolness. Love her.
I want Mal on Dipsea.
oooooh yes!!! I would love that! 😭💗
Yes, some people despite what we want are just not friend material either. For me, basic things like how someone someone communicates, how they show respect for you, kindness, etc is not exclusive to romantic relationship. If I got a whiff of that in romance, that’s who you are at this time. That won’t get better because we’re using a different label.
I think the "red flag" with ex's remaining friends is due to the lack of exclusivity the new person of interest/partner may feel. Mal spoke about sharing space with that previous person and then continuing that into a friendship after the intimacy of the bond has gone but to many, many people that is something they don't want to deal with because if the only thing that is different between your last partner and your current is the presence of intimacy in one vs the removal from the other that may make the current partner believe this union isnt unique or special at all. Everyone wants to know that they stand out more or at least differently than the people you've been with prior and if they don't feel that way it could cause a lot of other issues to arise I.E, trust issues, jealousy, being self conscious plus some. For those who don't believe there is an issue with keeping your ex's as friends, they probably wont get these examples above because they are able to say "we tried something and it didn't work, now we've moved on" for others though....it could cause a huge stain on the relationship.
Yaaaaaaaas to this conversation- a nuanced and feminist conversation about gender expression and queerness ✨🙌🏾❤️
Love you Mal and for years I couldn't fit into the queer community. I always thought there's was something wrong with me
Two feminine women talking about masculine women and wondering why they don't understand it.
Im very curious what content you are watching on feminine and masculine energy. All the folks I watch are about finding balance between the masculine and feminine. It’s not about cancelling out the other energy. We all need both but depending on the situation we can tap in to either or. And you hold yourself accountable for your actions by learning what comes naturally to you so you can communicate without distressing your nervous system or being abrasive towards the other person.
I’m commenting only after the opening and OHMYGODDDDDDD I’m gonna miss you so much. They did great on your show but that show and others like it seem to do more damage to the community than good
i love this entire conversation 🥺
Nothing is wrong with being a softer masculine presenting woman it's just a preference based on my personality as to what I am attracted to , what I need to balance myself ECT... I need / want a more masculine presenting woman and have been approached and tried to date a more softer masculine presenting woman and I had to tell them it wasn't gonna work because I just was having a hard time connecting with her.
i LOVED this interview
yall are too much of a vibe
Being enthusiastic about pleasure, period. Yes!
Shan, you’re so good @ your job! love you 🩷
I’m a fem presenting queer woman and I’ve only had sexual experiences with men. In short, I’ve never been fully satisfied. But I’ve noticed in perusing women, a lot of other feminine women are not attracted to other feminine women. It’s so frustrating, I hope a lot of our ideas around gender roles continues to shift
I’m feminine presenting and it’s very rare to see or find femme for femme.
It might be rare but its not impossible my gf and i are both bi/femmes and we found eachother.
@@Raddiebaddie I love that for yall 🥲💖
@@etvenus_ thank you dear, it is possible. I hope you find what you’re looking for 💖💖
This. Let me leave this info here to let the universe work its magic❤ I have feminine energy, 43 yrs old, looking for a single lesbian in India. I am someone who loves nature, likes to live on a farm, spiritually enlightened with a beautiful personality.
I agree with Mal wholeheartedly. It’s about embracing the duality vs playing a role. All forms of gender & relationships could benefit from this.
Ugh ❤ I swear Mal needs a deal with calm app because baby that voice is like butter!
Yes yes yes to all of this, just because you physically present a certain way should not put any limitations, expectations, or otherwise upon you. Every single person is truly an individual individual lol and should be treated as such! Thank you Mal you actually really represent my partner who is masc presenting but she is still a woman and has feminine traits and I never expected her to be a certain way or do specific things just because she’s the “masc” one, I just learned her as an individual person and I love her for it ❤️❤️
Female perspective podcast are far more intelligent and calm and less idiotic than the male podcast have y’all noticed ? Lol
Mal is absolutely gorgeous! And she seems like she has a beautiful soul as well. Loved the conversation. I wasn't sure about the part of being friends with your ex though, but I guess I see the reasoning behind it in terms of not losing your community. I'm just not that mature.
I thoroughly enjoyed this podcast.
its not that I can’t be friends with my exes, I just don’t feel the need to be. I think sometimes people come into your life and they’re supposed to teach you a lesson and then you mourn them, not everything must be dragged out forever. keeping exes around just creates a lot of weird energy in my opinion. however, each case is different its hard to generalise.
I really loved this conversation. I'm a femme lesbian myself but I prefer women who are in touch with bth masc and femme sides so i find myself dating stemmes more
40:50 ALL OF THIS! As many good sexual experiences I’ve had with men. You guys articulated perfectly how I feel when it comes to having sex with men. Ugh ❤
I feel as if masculine-presenting people can be gentle. A great extension of everything Mal discussed is that our traditional construction of masculinity, even in queer communities, doesn't make room or allow for masculine people to be gentle or softer while still being masculine. Being "soft" or "gentle" in your persona doesn't or shouldn't invalidate your masculinity. Mal is a perfect example of this, and I see a lot of myself in her, but people love to try to invalidate your masculinity or question that part of you if your persona doesn't align with this "hard" or aggressive expectation they have.
mal is beautiful omg
the double standard that Shan and Mal brought out about was really good : People assume that hetro specific attractions are all based on some sort of psychological programming but when it comes to gender or LGBTQIA+ community no one assumes you can "pray the gay away" nor criticizes the concepts of what they may be attracted. Def a double standard Ive never heard people acknowledge before. Wish that would be talked about more.
We all feel parasocial for mal 😂 she seems so kind and thoughtful and mature. She sounds to have done the work to get there ~
I love Mal so much. I would love to just have a conversation with her! Between her and Amber they are just everything to me ❤❤❤
This episode is truly healing in my internalized homophobia and as well as having a high picteched voice while being non binary. All day at work today I dot on questioning msyekf and my “validity” to be non binary but thank you for letting me know that I don’t need to stick to all of these rules in order to be valid with what I feel💖💖⚜️⚜️
I kind of ship Mal and Shan. 🙈🥰 and towards the end it made perfect sense. Shan expressed attraction for masc presenting femme centered people, and Mal enjoys femme presenting masc centered people. Your energy just matches so well together. Don't scold me loll
Going through my own break up process and I am really striving to get to this point of how I speak about my partner and my life experiences in general.
This conversation is SO NEEDED, healing, and beautiful. Thank you for sharing so openly & honestly with us. ❤
I really enjoyed listening to Mal's input in this conversation. It's nice to hear a varied perception of this convo and how her/their identity fits within it and whether or not it's truly important to a relationship in general.
I really resonated with this conversation because I'm hella tired of the masculine/feminine argument. Debate? ...Debacle feels best. It's unnecessarily divisive (outside of this convo that is a deep-dive/critique) in that the conversation never serves anyone involved. What's the point of it? Why is it there? Why can we not just individually tend to the partner(s) that we have and build an experience that isn't muddled with this bs? I even find now that in my convos with my hetero friends where this "masc/femme" conversation comes up, I check out. Be free of trying to fit into those labels and presumption of what they mean and just figure out the situation for what it is.
Mal is like super, super stunning. Super stunning. Literally googly eyes the entire episode because perma-crush and new crush are on one episode. 😍
Super great conversation
This interview is everything I’ve been feeling and needing I relate so so much to Mal as a trans masculine person
I love how in the queer community there is this wide openness to different types of energies when it comes to relationships but I have to say as a straight feminine female I dont attract to feminie presenting anyone. There are a lot of straight men who are overly sensitive to me and for me that just doesnt work so I dont think it is just a queer issue. Men in general seem far more feminite to me these days and the ones who are super masc tend to be very toxic in their masculinity..soo idk anymore🤷♀️
Outfit details for Mal? Like where oh WHERE are those gorgeous patchwork denim pants from?
Love you Shan 🤍
Oof, I absolutely love her! I desire a partner to speak to me like that. Marry me Mal!? Lol
I felt seen in this episode!