If I ever met her and she invited me to converse with her I would let her know how beautiful she is and how mature cuz it’s rare and I’m queer as well so I would date her on some real lol not sure that she would date me but hey hahaha
Mal has single-handedly carved a category for herself in what’s considered attractive and like Shan said: “we just need more of you”. What a beautiful person Mal is❤
I am in love with this woman. I love how she is able to hold herself accountable, respect her previous partner and be vulnerable at the same time. I feel like knowing someone like her with this much integrity would be blessing
I love this my girlfriend definitely can relate to this topic. She told me how her previous partners use to try and make her more masculine since she’s more masc presenting but she likes being feminine too. I told her i dont care she can be whatever she wants and I’ll be happy! Funny enough she was exactly what I wanted someone who could be both and felt comfortable being one or the other given the situation. I’m more fem presenting but my personality is more masc and I use to have a hard time dating because I would get told I’m too dominant or masculine it was so frustrating. So now I found someone who allows me to be either or
I miss THESE conversations. I really love learning, exploring, and diving deep into conversations around sex and human sexuality. This episode was so informative with lots of layers. It really made me think. Thanks Shan!
Ahhh, I ❤ Mal! She's like a soft pillow, she's beautiful, her voice is like butter, her vibe is THE vibe, she's so articulate & thoughtful with her words...she is just so dope! Chile lemme stop gushing over this woman & go text my husband! 🤣🤣 I'd love to hear Mal doing ASMR, on the Calm app, or just reading a newspaper!
Can I ask a genuine question as a straight married woman how would you feel if you husband was gushing over another man in the same way .would it make you feel some type of way I am speaking specifically and generally can't straight men also have those same feelings without being labeled ?? Just a wild thought
@KyeyuneBatuma well most of the time not always straight men first go off of physical attraction then emotions but women we are emotional first most times
Mal can really articulate her feelings and what she's experiencing so clearly, like that's a GIFT. So much packed into this episode WOW! Really loved the questions Shan asked and I loved hearing a new perspective on the whole Masc & Fem conversation at large.
Hey lovers and friends - Can't wait to read your commentary on both the validity of assessing people's masculinity and femininity AND how awesome Mal is.
THIS IS WHY I BECAME A FOLLOWER OF THIS PODCAST! CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS IS NOURISHMENT TO MY SOUL. This is so productive to human growth and listening to Mel is like having a cup of warm tea on a snowy morning. Not to mention everything about her being attractive, I don’t care who you are, if you’re not gay Mel will make you check in with yourself 3 times! These two brains together is a movement.
I love mal and her description of being masc presenting but feminine at center, it resonates. I’ve had trouble growing up and trying to fit molds that never seem to fit perfectly but this description just hits the mark 👌 coming into my 30’s I’ve never been more confident in who I am and how I show up.
Mal has been my favorite non-stop since the show. I love seeing there are great people around. She’s so knowledgeable and makes me feel safe in spaces I’m not in! 😂
I am really proud of identifying as a woman. Having said that, I can't clearly articulate why. In conversation with my mom and sister topics like my relationship with my body, closeness with my emotions and deep connections with other women were some of the reasons why. It's kind of another conversation but at the same time not... I really love the topic - its because of conversations like these that I will miss the podcast ♥
i dont label myself masc or fem, but i always get called masc by people, including my friends, and it makes me so dysphoric. even when i wear feminine clothes, they say i still look masc, but if a different looking girl wore the same exact thing, they'd still be considered fem or just wearing 'female streetwear'. it makes me so insecure, like im 'performing' femininity whenever i wear anything feminine.
I’m sorry hun, have you talked to them about how that makes you feel? You deserve to wear and be and present how you feel comfortable. We’re all some mixed balance of masc femme and everything in between. 💖
Mal speaks to me I mean REALLY speaks to my soul , I relate to her in a lot of ways . I also come from a older school way of the lesbian world and felt like I had to identify as a stud in my younger years bc I am masculine presenting and attracted a lot of women who were feminine presenting and did not understand my femininity. I now accept that I am feminine at my core while also presenting masculine and I love it , may this interview live on forever ❤ Stay safe out there 😊
I feel you. I have gotten comments on how my appearance is masculine but my mannerisms are more feminine. Also, im very soft spoken. I actually like that sort of cognitive dissonance. In the midst of them trying to figure out “ stud, stem & etc..) I think it forces them to see me.
The idea of deconstructing the social norm of what's too feminine or masculine is something that should be talked about more. People get assumptions of who I am and what I might like because of how I'm dressed... my thing is I am a woman just because I'm masculine presenting doesn't mean my femininity doesn't exist. I feel like I have a balance between the two, and just because people don't understand me doesn't negate in any way who I am...
Mal thank you for representing a diff type of masculinity. i am masc presenting and sometimes confused for a cis man but i am also very soft and embrace the feminine aspects of me which i show in my speech, mannerisms, how i care for others etc and it can be frustrating when others want you to be strictly masculine or feminine and cant understand or appreciate how someone can embody both. i think its beautiful that some people on this planet have a balance between both feminine and masculine energy and i think we have a special gift that is underappreciated
Mal is so beautiful, inside and out. 5'10 is tall for a Woman, and there is nothing wrong or weird how she presents herself. That's what makes her beautiful. I love her self awareness because it is so refreshing and it's important. I think more of us should be more open to the possibilities of what this thing called love should look like. Especially in our community
That last piece of advice Mal gave was so beautiful - studying abroad I just recently had that experience with someone where I felt safe to be me in a way I didn't know was possible
I'm lesbian who also told I'm little too feminine energy while I'm full on tomboy.....I'm consider a stem butch in lesbian community meaning I also mix my look into my feminine energy. That doesn't define or make me less has a lesbian just because I'm not stone 🪨 butch who only embrace her masculine look and energy. We should stop beating each other about this.
We are all both masculine and feminine. But i think there are times we are more go getters and times we relax or we use one more than the other. I think there is responsibility and heavy accountability for regardless of which side of yourself you are tapping into more depending on how you feel and the situation. I think regarless of what we choose to call that ebb and flow of energies we give off when interacting with the world or our loves ones there is a balance.
I think the "red flag" with ex's remaining friends is due to the lack of exclusivity the new person of interest/partner may feel. Mal spoke about sharing space with that previous person and then continuing that into a friendship after the intimacy of the bond has gone but to many, many people that is something they don't want to deal with because if the only thing that is different between your last partner and your current is the presence of intimacy in one vs the removal from the other that may make the current partner believe this union isnt unique or special at all. Everyone wants to know that they stand out more or at least differently than the people you've been with prior and if they don't feel that way it could cause a lot of other issues to arise I.E, trust issues, jealousy, being self conscious plus some. For those who don't believe there is an issue with keeping your ex's as friends, they probably wont get these examples above because they are able to say "we tried something and it didn't work, now we've moved on" for others though....it could cause a huge stain on the relationship.
I love this! We're just human... The whole gender ideology made this really black and white, while people are not just gender, feminine or masculine, it's way too simple and lack nuances.
Genderless sex is a HELL YES for me!!!! I don't think I can have anything different at this point. Good communication and letting go of the roles = pleasure portal to the highest degree. I haven't found many folks who can comprehend this let alone be present enough and/or work through whatever is getting in their way to step into this. I want to give and receive pleasure and play as my standard way of life everyday all day. Is that too much to ask?! LOL
There is no right way or one way to enjoy sex. It does not have to be performative. I 100% agree with Mal on centering pleasure. For me, the aim is to really be in my body, and to enjoy all of the experience. It's a time where we don't have to think or operate from a place of shame. We can just flow. See where the experience takes me. I love that.
I can not and will not be friends with any of my exes for several reasons. One my partner and I both agree it is Disrespectful to our relationship. Second, their intentions of having a friendship may not match yours.
Yes yes yes to all of this, just because you physically present a certain way should not put any limitations, expectations, or otherwise upon you. Every single person is truly an individual individual lol and should be treated as such! Thank you Mal you actually really represent my partner who is masc presenting but she is still a woman and has feminine traits and I never expected her to be a certain way or do specific things just because she’s the “masc” one, I just learned her as an individual person and I love her for it ❤️❤️
So yeah Mal, I'm pregnant and it's yours so you best come back on home now! Seriously though, when she said I can be all those things and still protect you it made me feel squishy cos for me that is everything I look for in a partner. Someone who will protect me as much as I will protect them.
Love Mal, and I relate so much to her points. Generally I feel like I don’t really fit into all these pre-defined boxes, but I get why they exist. Personally they are just a point of reference for me, and it’s important for me to have a partner who lets me feel safe in experimenting and evolving in our relationship (which luckily I do).
I feel as if masculine-presenting people can be gentle. A great extension of everything Mal discussed is that our traditional construction of masculinity, even in queer communities, doesn't make room or allow for masculine people to be gentle or softer while still being masculine. Being "soft" or "gentle" in your persona doesn't or shouldn't invalidate your masculinity. Mal is a perfect example of this, and I see a lot of myself in her, but people love to try to invalidate your masculinity or question that part of you if your persona doesn't align with this "hard" or aggressive expectation they have.
Loved the Conversation! Mal def is in tune with herself more than 90% of people out here in these streets and wow that's so cool and refreshing to hear her perspectives and experiences explained so clearly! The one thing lacking from this conversation is the Male perspective.... Like we have a straight female perspective (Shan) and a lesbian perspective(Mal) but be don't have the straight male perspective or the gay man's perspective. While it's cool to hear another side. For it to be a conversation that's well rounded I feel like all these perspectives need to be present for this discussion to bear fruit. When I say bear fruit I mean, there can be new understanding from all sides about what it means to be Masc or Fem and the unique pressures each group faces to present a certain way.
Going through my own break up process and I am really striving to get to this point of how I speak about my partner and my life experiences in general.
Just found this and love you. Wrote down several things you said right away. Love Mal. And yes, the way Mal is talking about lesbian relationships, queer relationships, and even gay relationships, for most people sex is not at all role restricted. It's not about that. I'd actually say it is less common to find people restricted or restricting others based off of how they present externally, especially inside of a relationship.
It is so incredibly affirming to hear how other masc presenting folks are centering on space that is non-binary; socially as well as how one might connect with someone intimately and sexually. Disrupting norms that reflect social systems which have been historically oppressive while redefining them is a phenomenal way of reclaiming our own space and power.
i wish i could hav remained friends with my exes….i loved them once and i’ll always love them….a lot of them feel guilty, and others have jealousy issues. and they have told me this…still sad, but i wish them the best. i never see them, never run into them at events…it’s clear we weren’t meant to be. i think people should be friends with their exes…they hav snap shots and intuition about you that you might not even hav yourself. friends should help you grow and vice versa. didnt watch whatever show this person was on, but public scrutiny is rough without a great foundation. but im glad she found the cracks in it out before she was stuck. seems like a great conversationalist, very in tune with herself. cheers to her.
I’m simping over Mal. OMG I love the conversations and the questions being asked. This episode has definitely opened up my mind on this topic a lot more. It’s relating to the talks I’ve had with my friends lately and this is really reassuring me and my thoughts/feelings. Love love love this episode ❤
I’m a fem presenting queer woman and I’ve only had sexual experiences with men. In short, I’ve never been fully satisfied. But I’ve noticed in perusing women, a lot of other feminine women are not attracted to other feminine women. It’s so frustrating, I hope a lot of our ideas around gender roles continues to shift
Dam this was a great interview. I had mixed feelings about Mal after second half of the ultimatum but now it's easier to understand the hype, she's very human and still makes mistakes but it's obvious how intentional she is about her personal growth and development. Love her articulation, and highly resonate with the masc presenting femme of center. Never thought of it that way but i think I'm pretty similar lol
Mal is absolutely gorgeous! And she seems like she has a beautiful soul as well. Loved the conversation. I wasn't sure about the part of being friends with your ex though, but I guess I see the reasoning behind it in terms of not losing your community. I'm just not that mature.
This episode is truly healing in my internalized homophobia and as well as having a high picteched voice while being non binary. All day at work today I dot on questioning msyekf and my “validity” to be non binary but thank you for letting me know that I don’t need to stick to all of these rules in order to be valid with what I feel💖💖⚜️⚜️
Shannon you have done it again. You prove over and over why you are the queen of information, foresight, and human expansion.Thank you for having this conversation seeking balance in our gender expression is so necessary. Bless you! Humans think that because we have lasted so long we are okay, but there is so much more to life than survival. thriving is so necessary. may we all seek to thrive at our core!
Loved this conversation and it only will make me miss this podcast more. And Mal def made points connecting it to the relationship had with the mother and I wish it was talked about more
Yes, some people despite what we want are just not friend material either. For me, basic things like how someone someone communicates, how they show respect for you, kindness, etc is not exclusive to romantic relationship. If I got a whiff of that in romance, that’s who you are at this time. That won’t get better because we’re using a different label.
I really enjoyed listening to Mal's input in this conversation. It's nice to hear a varied perception of this convo and how her/their identity fits within it and whether or not it's truly important to a relationship in general. I really resonated with this conversation because I'm hella tired of the masculine/feminine argument. Debate? ...Debacle feels best. It's unnecessarily divisive (outside of this convo that is a deep-dive/critique) in that the conversation never serves anyone involved. What's the point of it? Why is it there? Why can we not just individually tend to the partner(s) that we have and build an experience that isn't muddled with this bs? I even find now that in my convos with my hetero friends where this "masc/femme" conversation comes up, I check out. Be free of trying to fit into those labels and presumption of what they mean and just figure out the situation for what it is. Mal is like super, super stunning. Super stunning. Literally googly eyes the entire episode because perma-crush and new crush are on one episode. 😍
I choose not to be friends with my exes because in my experience it was difficult to mutually detransition back to a platonic relationship. I found my ex saying and doing things out of resentment that I had broken things off. I don’t think it’s a red flag to remain friends with clear boundaries. Without those I’m not a fan. People say “oh I’m good friends with my ex(es). I ask some (or one) of them for relationship advice. No. I don’t want your ex in our business simply because that’s still your good or best friend.
This was an amazing conversation between the two of you! I appreciate the vulnerability. Thank you for sharing this on your platform. I don't see it enough!
I can appreciate wanting to be seen & respected for not neatly fitting into the box of masculine and femme but doing away with these terms as if they don't mean anything and then attempting to use them to describe your unique human experience, expression, and/or who you are attracted to, does not make sense. There is nothing wrong with desiring a partner who is strongly feminine or masculine. It's not just about how someone dresses, but the energy one embodies and carries through life. It's about wanting a certain balance or dynamic. It doesn't mean that you're controlling or co-dependent, etc. There is a healthy manifestation of these energies, and important to know the difference. It's powerful to be clear about who you are and what you want. I am a woman who loves masculine women, and I like for a woman to be authentically masculine at her core or “center”, and also have a healthy balance with her feminine energy…the way we should all be balanced. A lot of masculine "presenting" women are not actually masculine, at their core. As your guest explained, she is internally feminine and just wears masculine clothing because of how people respond to her, and because she looks good wearing it. Likewise, there are also a lot of masculine-presenting women who dress and behave a that way because they are traumatized and think it will offer them protection. Some of these women are also the type to not want their lesbian partner to engage with their female anatomy during sex because it's uncomfortable or triggering. In my opinion, such women are not truly masculine. This is a superficial and/or wounded relationship with masculine expression, and when that happens, these are the women who feel boxed in by stereotypes, and want everyone else to “expand the definition” of what masculinity means, so that they can feel more comfortable being perceived as masculine without actually embodying the energy. For a lot of women, masculinity is just used as an armor or cover up for deeper issues.
I always enjoy your podcast. I really enjoy it when there are LGBT conversations. LOVED this episode. Hopefully next time we can hear same gender loving male perspectives . 💛
its not that I can’t be friends with my exes, I just don’t feel the need to be. I think sometimes people come into your life and they’re supposed to teach you a lesson and then you mourn them, not everything must be dragged out forever. keeping exes around just creates a lot of weird energy in my opinion. however, each case is different its hard to generalise.
Happy anniversary to you both!!!❤ Shan I’ve been subscribed to your channel for YEARSSS and to see your evolution and how you have grown, is so amazing to watch and definitely inspires me. HUGE FAN
I am so lame and sheltered because I looked up what is "octopus eyes" LOL. OMG, I am cracking up at myself. You both are great to listen to and learn from.
the double standard that Shan and Mal brought out about was really good : People assume that hetro specific attractions are all based on some sort of psychological programming but when it comes to gender or LGBTQIA+ community no one assumes you can "pray the gay away" nor criticizes the concepts of what they may be attracted. Def a double standard Ive never heard people acknowledge before. Wish that would be talked about more.
Loved this episode and both of ya’ll and also love that you chose to keep in the little nuances of adjusting the mic, etc. it really felt like we were there in the room with you guys. ❤
This. Let me leave this info here to let the universe work its magic❤ I have feminine energy, 43 yrs old, looking for a single lesbian in India. I am someone who loves nature, likes to live on a farm, spiritually enlightened with a beautiful personality.
You might as well say "lion" and "lamb" to categorize two presumptive opposites. "Masculine" and "feminine" are symbolic language for denoting two poles of a spectrum of temperament and behavior. You can take gender out of it and still capture the essentials of two different orientations toward life. For instance, "goal oriented" versus "relationship oriented." Allow people to pick definitions that feel more comfortable than the polarizing terms of gender, where any deviation can feel like a failing. It's worth interrogating the anxieties behind the symbolic language we default to. It's less useful to try to understand actual people by this language.
1:03:02- 1:07:16 having experienced this has been life changing.🥰💝 wholehearted, enthusiastic agree. love to hear this in public💖 thank you for bringing us this lovely conversation💜🤎🖤
I’m commenting only after the opening and OHMYGODDDDDDD I’m gonna miss you so much. They did great on your show but that show and others like it seem to do more damage to the community than good
![ROSÉ (로제) - number one girl [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A9oByH9Ci24/mqdefault.jpg)
I love the way Mal articulates & carries herself. I can tell she’s done a lot of internal work. It’s so attractive.
Too sexy
For real, I could listen to her talk all day
If I ever met her and she invited me to converse with her I would let her know how beautiful she is and how mature cuz it’s rare and I’m queer as well so I would date her on some real lol not sure that she would date me but hey hahaha
@@Greycibennett I went through a little phase & discovered that it’s not for me, but she would make me reconsider. I just love her charisma. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Sooooo attractive
Mal has single-handedly carved a category for herself in what’s considered attractive and like Shan said: “we just need more of you”. What a beautiful person Mal is❤
I am in love with this woman. I love how she is able to hold herself accountable, respect her previous partner and be vulnerable at the same time. I feel like knowing someone like her with this much integrity would be blessing
Agreed. Such a good role model. I want to be like her in my growth journey. The accountability part......no truer words. She is likeable
Mal made me question my orientation for real 😂
I love this my girlfriend definitely can relate to this topic. She told me how her previous partners use to try and make her more masculine since she’s more masc presenting but she likes being feminine too. I told her i dont care she can be whatever she wants and I’ll be happy! Funny enough she was exactly what I wanted someone who could be both and felt comfortable being one or the other given the situation. I’m more fem presenting but my personality is more masc and I use to have a hard time dating because I would get told I’m too dominant or masculine it was so frustrating. So now I found someone who allows me to be either or
Mal’s essence and personality is soooo relaxed. So soft. So comfortable in her own skin. I’m not saying she’s perfect but dang it she might be close.
I miss THESE conversations. I really love learning, exploring, and diving deep into conversations around sex and human sexuality. This episode was so informative with lots of layers. It really made me think. Thanks Shan!
Ahhh, I ❤ Mal! She's like a soft pillow, she's beautiful, her voice is like butter, her vibe is THE vibe, she's so articulate & thoughtful with her words...she is just so dope! Chile lemme stop gushing over this woman & go text my husband! 🤣🤣
I'd love to hear Mal doing ASMR, on the Calm app, or just reading a newspaper!
exactly forreal I fell in love with her and i'm a whole married woman
7
Can I ask a genuine question as a straight married woman how would you feel if you husband was gushing over another man in the same way .would it make you feel some type of way I am speaking specifically and generally can't straight men also have those same feelings without being labeled ?? Just a wild thought
@KyeyuneBatuma well most of the time not always straight men first go off of physical attraction then emotions but women we are emotional first most times
Mal can really articulate her feelings and what she's experiencing so clearly, like that's a GIFT. So much packed into this episode WOW! Really loved the questions Shan asked and I loved hearing a new perspective on the whole Masc & Fem conversation at large.
I love the way Shan practices telling people they’re wrong in the most neutral way. V refreshing
Hey lovers and friends - Can't wait to read your commentary on both the validity of assessing people's masculinity and femininity AND how awesome Mal is.
I've alteady offered Mal perfect blueberries in her DMs. And I'm here to reaffirm that you still deserve them 👑.
@1:04:44 who and what episode were you guys speaking about?
@@melrose6731 Sacred Sex Episode #46 ❤
@loversandfriendspodcast -- what is octopus eyes?! lol. I'm scared to dive into the internet to find out!
THIS IS WHY I BECAME A FOLLOWER OF THIS PODCAST! CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS IS NOURISHMENT TO MY SOUL. This is so productive to human growth and listening to Mel is like having a cup of warm tea on a snowy morning.
Not to mention everything about her being attractive, I don’t care who you are, if you’re not gay Mel will make you check in with yourself 3 times!
These two brains together is a movement.
Mal had a peace to her & that's why everyone loves her energy
I love mal and her description of being masc presenting but feminine at center, it resonates. I’ve had trouble growing up and trying to fit molds that never seem to fit perfectly but this description just hits the mark 👌 coming into my 30’s I’ve never been more confident in who I am and how I show up.
Mal has been my favorite non-stop since the show. I love seeing there are great people around. She’s so knowledgeable and makes me feel safe in spaces I’m not in! 😂
I am really proud of identifying as a woman. Having said that, I can't clearly articulate why. In conversation with my mom and sister topics like my relationship with my body, closeness with my emotions and deep connections with other women were some of the reasons why. It's kind of another conversation but at the same time not...
I really love the topic - its because of conversations like these that I will miss the podcast ♥
i dont label myself masc or fem, but i always get called masc by people, including my friends, and it makes me so dysphoric. even when i wear feminine clothes, they say i still look masc, but if a different looking girl wore the same exact thing, they'd still be considered fem or just wearing 'female streetwear'. it makes me so insecure, like im 'performing' femininity whenever i wear anything feminine.
I’m sorry hun, have you talked to them about how that makes you feel? You deserve to wear and be and present how you feel comfortable. We’re all some mixed balance of masc femme and everything in between. 💖
I feel the same but opposite situation of people seeing me as fem, I think what your face or body look like matters a lot to how people perceive you.
Mal speaks to me I mean REALLY speaks to my soul , I relate to her in a lot of ways . I also come from a older school way of the lesbian world and felt like I had to identify as a stud in my younger years bc I am masculine presenting and attracted a lot of women who were feminine presenting and did not understand my femininity. I now accept that I am feminine at my core while also presenting masculine and I love it , may this interview live on forever ❤
Stay safe out there 😊
Love that 💖
Genderless sex. That’s a new term I’ve learned today. & I definitely want to hear more about it.
I feel you. I have gotten comments on how my appearance is masculine but my mannerisms are more feminine. Also, im very soft spoken. I actually like that sort of cognitive dissonance. In the midst of them trying to figure out “ stud, stem & etc..) I think it forces them to see me.
The idea of deconstructing the social norm of what's too feminine or masculine is something that should be talked about more. People get assumptions of who I am and what I might like because of how I'm dressed... my thing is I am a woman just because I'm masculine presenting doesn't mean my femininity doesn't exist. I feel like I have a balance between the two, and just because people don't understand me doesn't negate in any way who I am...
Mal thank you for representing a diff type of masculinity. i am masc presenting and sometimes confused for a cis man but i am also very soft and embrace the feminine aspects of me which i show in my speech, mannerisms, how i care for others etc and it can be frustrating when others want you to be strictly masculine or feminine and cant understand or appreciate how someone can embody both. i think its beautiful that some people on this planet have a balance between both feminine and masculine energy and i think we have a special gift that is underappreciated
Mal is really one of the best people. I'd love to be her best friend or partner.
Mal is so beautiful, inside and out. 5'10 is tall for a Woman, and there is nothing wrong or weird how she presents herself. That's what makes her beautiful. I love her self awareness because it is so refreshing and it's important. I think more of us should be more open to the possibilities of what this thing called love should look like. Especially in our community
That last piece of advice Mal gave was so beautiful - studying abroad I just recently had that experience with someone where I felt safe to be me in a way I didn't know was possible
Ugh ❤ I swear Mal needs a deal with calm app because baby that voice is like butter!
Love Mal ❤️ you can tell she’s just a genuine person
I love how Shan breaks down all the dichotomies in these masc/ fem formulations.
When Mel said I can be XYZ and still protect you… girl!!! ❤️❤️
Both of these two are AMAZING listeners--that's what makes this conversation so incredible. Plus when Shan stood up to swat the bug, helped, too!
I agree with Mal wholeheartedly. It’s about embracing the duality vs playing a role. All forms of gender & relationships could benefit from this.
I'm lesbian who also told I'm little too feminine energy while I'm full on tomboy.....I'm consider a stem butch in lesbian community meaning I also mix my look into my feminine energy. That doesn't define or make me less has a lesbian just because I'm not stone 🪨 butch who only embrace her masculine look and energy. We should stop beating each other about this.
This conversation is SO NEEDED, healing, and beautiful. Thank you for sharing so openly & honestly with us. ❤
I am in LOVE with Mel. When I saw her on the Ultimatum I really felt like we are soulmates who will probably never meet UGH!
We are all both masculine and feminine. But i think there are times we are more go getters and times we relax or we use one more than the other. I think there is responsibility and heavy accountability for regardless of which side of yourself you are tapping into more depending on how you feel and the situation. I think regarless of what we choose to call that ebb and flow of energies we give off when interacting with the world or our loves ones there is a balance.
I've never clicked on a video so quickly. Literally just woke up 😂
I think the "red flag" with ex's remaining friends is due to the lack of exclusivity the new person of interest/partner may feel. Mal spoke about sharing space with that previous person and then continuing that into a friendship after the intimacy of the bond has gone but to many, many people that is something they don't want to deal with because if the only thing that is different between your last partner and your current is the presence of intimacy in one vs the removal from the other that may make the current partner believe this union isnt unique or special at all. Everyone wants to know that they stand out more or at least differently than the people you've been with prior and if they don't feel that way it could cause a lot of other issues to arise I.E, trust issues, jealousy, being self conscious plus some. For those who don't believe there is an issue with keeping your ex's as friends, they probably wont get these examples above because they are able to say "we tried something and it didn't work, now we've moved on" for others though....it could cause a huge stain on the relationship.
Thank you for listening Shan!! Been waiting for an ep like this!
I learned so much. Mal articulates her thoughts so well. I aspire to be as articulate.
I love this! We're just human... The whole gender ideology made this really black and white, while people are not just gender, feminine or masculine, it's way too simple and lack nuances.
Genderless sex is a HELL YES for me!!!! I don't think I can have anything different at this point. Good communication and letting go of the roles = pleasure portal to the highest degree. I haven't found many folks who can comprehend this let alone be present enough and/or work through whatever is getting in their way to step into this. I want to give and receive pleasure and play as my standard way of life everyday all day. Is that too much to ask?! LOL
man this episode rlly had me by the neck i was so sad when it ended 😂
There is no right way or one way to enjoy sex. It does not have to be performative. I 100% agree with Mal on centering pleasure. For me, the aim is to really be in my body, and to enjoy all of the experience. It's a time where we don't have to think or operate from a place of shame. We can just flow. See where the experience takes me. I love that.
Thank you so much Mel for speaking up for us, the ones that do not fit into those narrow description for masc or fem
I can not and will not be friends with any of my exes for several reasons. One my partner and I both agree it is Disrespectful to our relationship. Second, their intentions of having a friendship may not match yours.
Yes yes yes to all of this, just because you physically present a certain way should not put any limitations, expectations, or otherwise upon you. Every single person is truly an individual individual lol and should be treated as such! Thank you Mal you actually really represent my partner who is masc presenting but she is still a woman and has feminine traits and I never expected her to be a certain way or do specific things just because she’s the “masc” one, I just learned her as an individual person and I love her for it ❤️❤️
This interview is everything I’ve been feeling and needing I relate so so much to Mal as a trans masculine person
Masculine presenting or not, you have to remember she's STILL a woman.
Beautiful explorative conversation. I love the balance here. The curiosities, the receptiveness to one another, and openness.
So yeah Mal, I'm pregnant and it's yours so you best come back on home now! Seriously though, when she said I can be all those things and still protect you it made me feel squishy cos for me that is everything I look for in a partner. Someone who will protect me as much as I will protect them.
Love Mal, and I relate so much to her points. Generally I feel like I don’t really fit into all these pre-defined boxes, but I get why they exist. Personally they are just a point of reference for me, and it’s important for me to have a partner who lets me feel safe in experimenting and evolving in our relationship (which luckily I do).
I feel as if masculine-presenting people can be gentle. A great extension of everything Mal discussed is that our traditional construction of masculinity, even in queer communities, doesn't make room or allow for masculine people to be gentle or softer while still being masculine. Being "soft" or "gentle" in your persona doesn't or shouldn't invalidate your masculinity. Mal is a perfect example of this, and I see a lot of myself in her, but people love to try to invalidate your masculinity or question that part of you if your persona doesn't align with this "hard" or aggressive expectation they have.
Loved the Conversation! Mal def is in tune with herself more than 90% of people out here in these streets and wow that's so cool and refreshing to hear her perspectives and experiences explained so clearly!
The one thing lacking from this conversation is the Male perspective.... Like we have a straight female perspective (Shan) and a lesbian perspective(Mal) but be don't have the straight male perspective or the gay man's perspective. While it's cool to hear another side. For it to be a conversation that's well rounded I feel like all these perspectives need to be present for this discussion to bear fruit. When I say bear fruit I mean, there can be new understanding from all sides about what it means to be Masc or Fem and the unique pressures each group faces to present a certain way.
Going through my own break up process and I am really striving to get to this point of how I speak about my partner and my life experiences in general.
Just found this and love you. Wrote down several things you said right away. Love Mal. And yes, the way Mal is talking about lesbian relationships, queer relationships, and even gay relationships, for most people sex is not at all role restricted. It's not about that. I'd actually say it is less common to find people restricted or restricting others based off of how they present externally, especially inside of a relationship.
It is so incredibly affirming to hear how other masc presenting folks are centering on space that is non-binary; socially as well as how one might connect with someone intimately and sexually. Disrupting norms that reflect social systems which have been historically oppressive while redefining them is a phenomenal way of reclaiming our own space and power.
Mal is so cool. Love her
i wish i could hav remained friends with my exes….i loved them once and i’ll always love them….a lot of them feel guilty, and others have jealousy issues. and they have told me this…still sad, but i wish them the best. i never see them, never run into them at events…it’s clear we weren’t meant to be. i think people should be friends with their exes…they hav snap shots and intuition about you that you might not even hav yourself. friends should help you grow and vice versa. didnt watch whatever show this person was on, but public scrutiny is rough without a great foundation. but im glad she found the cracks in it out before she was stuck. seems like a great conversationalist, very in tune with herself. cheers to her.
Those last ten minutes took my breath away and never gave it back in. The. Best. Way!
I’m simping over Mal. OMG I love the conversations and the questions being asked. This episode has definitely opened up my mind on this topic a lot more. It’s relating to the talks I’ve had with my friends lately and this is really reassuring me and my thoughts/feelings. Love love love this episode ❤
I’m a fem presenting queer woman and I’ve only had sexual experiences with men. In short, I’ve never been fully satisfied. But I’ve noticed in perusing women, a lot of other feminine women are not attracted to other feminine women. It’s so frustrating, I hope a lot of our ideas around gender roles continues to shift
I’m feminine presenting and it’s very rare to see or find femme for femme.
It might be rare but its not impossible my gf and i are both bi/femmes and we found eachother.
@@Raddiebaddie I love that for yall 🥲💖
@@etvenus_ thank you dear, it is possible. I hope you find what you’re looking for 💖💖
Loved this... Seamless chemistry that had me thoroughly engaged 💜
Dam this was a great interview. I had mixed feelings about Mal after second half of the ultimatum but now it's easier to understand the hype, she's very human and still makes mistakes but it's obvious how intentional she is about her personal growth and development. Love her articulation, and highly resonate with the masc presenting femme of center. Never thought of it that way but i think I'm pretty similar lol
Mal is absolutely gorgeous! And she seems like she has a beautiful soul as well. Loved the conversation. I wasn't sure about the part of being friends with your ex though, but I guess I see the reasoning behind it in terms of not losing your community. I'm just not that mature.
This episode is truly healing in my internalized homophobia and as well as having a high picteched voice while being non binary. All day at work today I dot on questioning msyekf and my “validity” to be non binary but thank you for letting me know that I don’t need to stick to all of these rules in order to be valid with what I feel💖💖⚜️⚜️
Shannon you have done it again. You prove over and over why you are the queen of information, foresight, and human expansion.Thank you for having this conversation seeking balance in our gender expression is so necessary. Bless you! Humans think that because we have lasted so long we are okay, but there is so much more to life than survival. thriving is so necessary. may we all seek to thrive at our core!
Loved this conversation and it only will make me miss this podcast more. And Mal def made points connecting it to the relationship had with the mother and I wish it was talked about more
Yes, some people despite what we want are just not friend material either. For me, basic things like how someone someone communicates, how they show respect for you, kindness, etc is not exclusive to romantic relationship. If I got a whiff of that in romance, that’s who you are at this time. That won’t get better because we’re using a different label.
I really enjoyed listening to Mal's input in this conversation. It's nice to hear a varied perception of this convo and how her/their identity fits within it and whether or not it's truly important to a relationship in general.
I really resonated with this conversation because I'm hella tired of the masculine/feminine argument. Debate? ...Debacle feels best. It's unnecessarily divisive (outside of this convo that is a deep-dive/critique) in that the conversation never serves anyone involved. What's the point of it? Why is it there? Why can we not just individually tend to the partner(s) that we have and build an experience that isn't muddled with this bs? I even find now that in my convos with my hetero friends where this "masc/femme" conversation comes up, I check out. Be free of trying to fit into those labels and presumption of what they mean and just figure out the situation for what it is.
Mal is like super, super stunning. Super stunning. Literally googly eyes the entire episode because perma-crush and new crush are on one episode. 😍
I need myself a Mal, and at the same time I want to become more like Mal! What an inspiration ❤
Mal is such a beautiful and insightful human-being. This episode was so refreshing❣
I choose not to be friends with my exes because in my experience it was difficult to mutually detransition back to a platonic relationship. I found my ex saying and doing things out of resentment that I had broken things off. I don’t think it’s a red flag to remain friends with clear boundaries. Without those I’m not a fan. People say “oh I’m good friends with my ex(es). I ask some (or one) of them for relationship advice. No. I don’t want your ex in our business simply because that’s still your good or best friend.
This was an amazing conversation between the two of you! I appreciate the vulnerability. Thank you for sharing this on your platform. I don't see it enough!
I can appreciate wanting to be seen & respected for not neatly fitting into the box of masculine and femme but doing away with these terms as if they don't mean anything and then attempting to use them to describe your unique human experience, expression, and/or who you are attracted to, does not make sense.
There is nothing wrong with desiring a partner who is strongly feminine or masculine. It's not just about how someone dresses, but the energy one embodies and carries through life. It's about wanting a certain balance or dynamic. It doesn't mean that you're controlling or co-dependent, etc. There is a healthy manifestation of these energies, and important to know the difference. It's powerful to be clear about who you are and what you want.
I am a woman who loves masculine women, and I like for a woman to be authentically masculine at her core or “center”, and also have a healthy balance with her feminine energy…the way we should all be balanced.
A lot of masculine "presenting" women are not actually masculine, at their core. As your guest explained, she is internally feminine and just wears masculine clothing because of how people respond to her, and because she looks good wearing it.
Likewise, there are also a lot of masculine-presenting women who dress and behave a that way because they are traumatized and think it will offer them protection. Some of these women are also the type to not want their lesbian partner to engage with their female anatomy during sex because it's uncomfortable or triggering.
In my opinion, such women are not truly masculine.
This is a superficial and/or wounded relationship with masculine expression, and when that happens, these are the women who feel boxed in by stereotypes, and want everyone else to “expand the definition” of what masculinity means, so that they can feel more comfortable being perceived as masculine without actually embodying the energy. For a lot of women, masculinity is just used as an armor or cover up for deeper issues.
I always enjoy your podcast. I really enjoy it when there are LGBT conversations. LOVED this episode. Hopefully next time we can hear same gender loving male perspectives . 💛
its not that I can’t be friends with my exes, I just don’t feel the need to be. I think sometimes people come into your life and they’re supposed to teach you a lesson and then you mourn them, not everything must be dragged out forever. keeping exes around just creates a lot of weird energy in my opinion. however, each case is different its hard to generalise.
Happy anniversary to you both!!!❤ Shan I’ve been subscribed to your channel for YEARSSS and to see your evolution and how you have grown, is so amazing to watch and definitely inspires me. HUGE FAN
Mal is such a precious soul!
God bless her with the best of life.
Mal you need your own show ! Cause what you speak needs to be put out in the world
I am so lame and sheltered because I looked up what is "octopus eyes" LOL. OMG, I am cracking up at myself. You both are great to listen to and learn from.
the double standard that Shan and Mal brought out about was really good : People assume that hetro specific attractions are all based on some sort of psychological programming but when it comes to gender or LGBTQIA+ community no one assumes you can "pray the gay away" nor criticizes the concepts of what they may be attracted. Def a double standard Ive never heard people acknowledge before. Wish that would be talked about more.
Loved this episode and both of ya’ll and also love that you chose to keep in the little nuances of adjusting the mic, etc. it really felt like we were there in the room with you guys. ❤
my favorite video on the channel!!! Ty so much xx
This. Let me leave this info here to let the universe work its magic❤ I have feminine energy, 43 yrs old, looking for a single lesbian in India. I am someone who loves nature, likes to live on a farm, spiritually enlightened with a beautiful personality.
I am glad you discuss it in this episode: so tired of this masculine/feminine dichotomy. Can’t relate with those concepts
We all feel parasocial for mal 😂 she seems so kind and thoughtful and mature. She sounds to have done the work to get there ~
Wow this is your purpose. Your mindset is so refreshing.
I absolutely ADORED THIS EPISODE!!!!
ugh yesss more lesbian guests please, I needed to hear this conversation!
Ahhh😭😭 I just remembered I’m going to miss the way Shan delivers wisdom and information I enjoy it thoroughly - thank you 💗💞
Also Mal 😍😍
This was so nice to watch. The word that comes to mind is pleasurable!
Mal was my faaaavorite person on that messy ass show, i smiled so hard when i saw them in this thumbnail
I love the way she uses her words ❤
6:00-6:24 so trueeeee! not many people realize this.
This conversation is definitely my favorite.
Such different perspectives
i LOVED this interview
yall are too much of a vibe
You might as well say "lion" and "lamb" to categorize two presumptive opposites. "Masculine" and "feminine" are symbolic language for denoting two poles of a spectrum of temperament and behavior. You can take gender out of it and still capture the essentials of two different orientations toward life. For instance, "goal oriented" versus "relationship oriented." Allow people to pick definitions that feel more comfortable than the polarizing terms of gender, where any deviation can feel like a failing. It's worth interrogating the anxieties behind the symbolic language we default to. It's less useful to try to understand actual people by this language.
@51:00 respect to you. Someone who accepts a challenge with such coolness. Love her.
1:03:02- 1:07:16 having experienced this has been life changing.🥰💝 wholehearted, enthusiastic agree. love to hear this in public💖 thank you for bringing us this lovely conversation💜🤎🖤
first time seeing interview, and you are fire !! 2024 on another level.
I’m commenting only after the opening and OHMYGODDDDDDD I’m gonna miss you so much. They did great on your show but that show and others like it seem to do more damage to the community than good