probably because players are forced into a competitive situation regardless of how they usually play. some people take splatfest turf way more seriously than regular turf war, and casual players are more likely to see really aggressive play
This actually came up in the chat during the final matches of the PAX East tournament. Someone joked about it and the chat went absolutely goofy on the topic. I assume that's what inspired this video because people get really stupid really fast when it comes to spawn camping.
Spawn Camping in Turf War is honestly a bad idea. As mentioned, it only takes one wipe to lose the game. I can write a novel and have enough material for a sequel over how many times my team shat the bed because they spawn camped and all died to one Special. I did this myself by slowly picking off the campers and when all my team was back at base because they died, released an Ink Storm. Wiped the entire team in one big push.
i honestly think this (USUALLY) is more of an issue related to new players not knowing the right words to use. from my experience i dont think so many people think spawncamping is an oppressive strategy, more that they are confused why they are being put against an oppressive team.
Yeah the game has a problem with matchmaking, if it pits 3-4 pro tier players against a team of low-mid players and they get into a situation where theyre spawn locked, it feels bad, and is a failure of the matchmaking that in essence looks as though the game is just allowing spawncamping. Game needs more spawn flanks regardless, then it would be mostly impossible to lock a spawn down.
@@poketronex Still, it shouldn't put A+ players against a coordinated, competitive team that got a knockout in a single Clam Blitz push within a minute of the battle starting >_>
@@SomeGalNamedEve the game isn't going to know who's a group of coordinated players or not. You can't even say that a group of friends joining on a team is coordinated, there's literally no guarantee that they're on VC, skilled together, or what. Series is for *solo* play, you cannot complain about facing coordinated teams in the *team version* of anarchy.
The only time I've "spawncamped" anyone in Splatoon is when the skill difference is so huge that I'm just able to win 1v4s, as in like post Christmas new player influx. That isn't really spawncamping tho, just 1v4ing, and any game that tries to "fix" that just really hits the skill ceiling hard.
Also, it's worse in Turf War, but that mode has a billion problems in general since it's clearly meant to be a casual gamemode and thus taking it seriously is just a bad idea in general.
Back in Splatoon 2 I had turf war match where the enemy team had 3 disconnects halfway through the match, so I just went and stood still in front of the last remaining player, who was behind their spawn shield, and then we just started jumping together, while the rest of my team was squid partying, I think. We just had nothing else to do for a whole minute.
Yeah, in Splatoon 3, true spawncamping doesn't even exist, between the aerial spawn system and the fact that all the maps have a spawn region that is typically inaccessible to the other team (use of recall mobility specials like zipcaster and inkjet doesn't count) and provides an advantage against an opponent who is outside of it, not to mention spawn armor is a thing. True spawn camping would have the other team simply killing you as soon as you spawn, without ability to fight back, or possibly even react, regardless of your own skill or knowledge (assuming a certain minimum amount from the spawn camper). In the first two games, you could make an argument for true spawn camping existing, as some maps would make it possible for the enemy to get all the way to the spawn shield, and if said enemy out-ranges you, there's not really anything you can do from inside it, and you would just get splatted if you leave it.
@@RiahGreen I can agree, as long as we can shake that L-cancelling is bad and not an example. As someone who's played both Smash Ultimate and P+ I love the P+ movement, but L-cancelling just feels bad.
That's why I like playing ranked more often. So many of the flaws from Turf and gone in ranked. It does bring in its own problems, but the pros of fun outweigh it, in my opinion of course.
i only go in turf war if i want to mess around with new weapons nowadays or just grinding sheldon licenses. though opens are probably quicker now that i think about it
I wonder if using a drivers mindset would help in a game like splatoon? When learning to drive, at least here in the UK and hopefully across other countries, we're taught to anticipate (to the best of your ability) and to act accordingly in order to *prevent* the situation from getting out of hand or *dangerous* , usually this is done in the "hazard perception test" half of your theory test (which you need to pass before you can sit your practical). Thinking about it a little bit more, I can see some parallels between being camped and being stuck or inconvenienced by traffic. No one likes to be stuck behind a tractor on a main road, but being up their rear (where they can't see you) isn't going to make things better or safer for you. Most drivers will wait for a safe opportunity to overtake the tractor but some drivers will inevitably overtake when it wasn't safe. This is kinda the same with respawning in general with players immediately spawing because they're tilted rather than taking time to assess and act accordingly to the best of their ability. I'm not gonna pretend I don't get frustrated in splatoon, we're human and we all make mistakes after all. But I know its very silly to try and overtake a lorry (truck/big rig) on a blind corner too! Its too dangerous. Edit: also if the game devs wanted to discourage spawn camping they could inflict a debuff on the camper(s) if they remain at enemy spawn after a certain amount of time.
@@JL-jz3 Agreed. Far too many people get road rage and fight over priority when it's something that's given not taken. That said I love it when someone overtakes me only to be stopped at the lights (temporary lights in my case) with me behind them.
@@hikaru9624 Just the other day I was driving in the right lane (lol America - it's opposite here) and someone was pulling out from the left side of the road. I thought they were trying to cross in front of me, but I was blocking them as they were pulling out. I slow down and move to the right most lane as they keep pushing against me, and then, afterall that bullshit, they turn right (not left, or across the intersection). Like WHY did they have to come ALL THE WAY ACROSS FOUR LANES like that only to turn right? I swear to god I can't drive to the grocery store anymore without witnessing weird shit like that. That aside, I just let bad drivers go off. I want nothing to do with them. Just get away from me. I don't want to be a part of their car accident.
While the information in the video is valuable and people that see it can internalize it to use to their advantage, it isn't much use when playing the game solo on pubs. Most people won't know what to do in situations where they are being spawn camped and will just keep trickling onto the enemy team until they lose. The only thing you can do in this situation is wait long enough for the chance that your whole team is alive and try to take your position, which is essentially based on chance, because it your team's deaths are so out of sync that they go to their deaths one by one, there isn't much you can do rather than just accept defeat.
It's strange, because I feel like a _lot_ of Splatoon 3's design is directly for the "oh no! spawn camping ruins the game!" 'issue'. There's a new spawn system that lets you roll out in different areas, you've got armor that lasts for a while, and above all else... THE MAPS Every single map goes so overboard trying to make it as impossible as they can get it for you to enter the enemy's spawn area. But of course, this has resulted in the most obnoxious maps that restrict flanks and make _retreating_ impossible because, well, if you were allowed to go back to your spawn, the enemies could go, too! it's so agonizing
one thing that some people don't realize too: you can stay inside the spawn launcher for as long as you want!! if your team keeps getting staggered and you're struggling to find a safe place to land (can happen on a couple maps like mahi) feel free to just chill in the spawn launcher until your teammates can join you. you can then launch out of spawn together with the armor advantage to get a good fight and hopefully break the spawn camp
I had no idea people thought this was an issue. I saw “spawn camping is permitted” as a rule in a tournament I played recently and I was like what does that even mean there’s no way to spawn camp in this game it’s too hard
A coordinated team of four (or just a team with a higher skill level) can contain the other team within their spawn - I see it often in unranked turf war.
@@isturmayeah, turf war. In competitive modes it’s a completely unviable strategy because there’s an objective you want to have all hands on deck for. If spawn camping happens in a tournament it doesn’t matter anyways because the match will be over in 50 seconds tops because it means the skill gap is just too large for the losing team so the winning team will get the win from the objective. In turf war the worse team just has to sit there and take it lmao
@@isturma At a tournament, both teams are coordinated, it's impossible in that environment unless it's literally sayonara against a team who has never attended a tournament and has 6 pickups
@@isturma The only reason that works is because the other team loses their head and doesn't think critically. Breaking a "spawncamp" isn't really that hard, and if you can't, the real problem isn't that you're being camped, the problem is that you're not skilled enough compared to the other team, and turf war doesn't have a surrender option. A team that can hem you in despite all the disadvantages they suffer in doing so, is a team that is still going to thrash you even if there was a fence keeping them ten feet further back
I do think it’s generally worse to deal with this in this game. No invincible spawn shield so once the 30 hp armor is gone you’re just a normal player. And the maps are hallways making it much easier to push all the way. I don’t think this is a problem outside of turf war and even there one push will win the game. But the people playing turf war aren’t going to know what to do a lot of the time because they’re purely casual. You’ll notice people start complaining about it after splatfests where pro players are forced to play turf war with the casuals for two whole days. Really I do think the problems are exasperated by the design decisions in this game and splatfests and there isn’t much to be done if a turf war team isn’t skilled enough to deal with. But also it’s just turf war so I don’t care. I just think it’s a bit more nuanced then coordinating with a turf war team to get out of there, because that doesn’t happen a lot.
I got spawncamped for a minute last tricolor battle because I was playing a short-range weapon I didn't have experience with and me and my partner kept getting outranged by our camper. However after we finally got the ko and control back of our spawn we actually ended up winning the match over the defending team. I never realised some people try to make a discussion out of this though, I've never encountered spawn camping in anarchy battles
Tricolor kinda needs defenders to spawncamp to some degree to not basically lose to 2 in ultras going off. It's still very risky, but having 1 team locked down means less bodies to rush the ultra.
Nah, playing solo against a team communicating it was just impossible, and on Sturgeon there is no place they can't get. The healthiest thing was to just give up
As an Inkbrush main, me and my brush can just trailblaze my way out of the spawncamp and into their own camp, usually either getting one or two people to chase me which breaks the spawncamping, or me getting free reign on their base to spam Killer Wail. Granted, the problem comes when the chokepoint on the camp prevents me from even brushing my way out, where there's a hallway in front of the spawn that can be camped to close all possible exits (maps like Mahi comes to mind), but in most cases, them getting distracted by a inkbrush running through would be enough for my team to break the hold.
regrouping with your (soloq) team is the hardest part of this, because even if you don't rush in, they will, and you can adapt your plan and go help them, but your deaths are so desynced and your special gauge will be empty again... it's just an unfun position to be in. but it is an inevitable thing that will happen in these kind of games, so i don't think it should be banned or punished. but casuals are absolutely allowed to vent their frustrations at being matched with someone obviously superior in skill and having to endure that for 3 whole minutes. ultimately, i agree: spawncamping isnt a "problem", just another obstacle your team has to overcome, just like when you lose the lead in ranked modes or find yourself in a sudden 1v4, or neutralizing a charger. the right attitude and technical approach can absolutely turn things around.
I think the thing to learn is not to "be mad" (idk what a better term would be) about spawn camping, but be mad that the map doesn't have a flank route for players to get out of those oppressive moments. Hallway maps, to me, are the greatest source of my frustration.
Spawn camping in Turf war is absolutely a nightmare when it happens to you, and makes you feel bad if you pull it off. I wish it didn't get so easily enabled by the game's map design on that mode since it's less fun than the usual back and forth for territory.
My one note of contention is that super jumping makes the one pick you manage to get pretty much pointless. If their entire team is there, a lucky pick or two (especially if they trade) doesn't mean a whole lot if you're badly mismatched enough to be spawn camped in the first place. Weapon range/abilities and map design also play into this. For the record, I've only seen spawn camping in turf where the opposing team already has full map control. . .it doesn't matter there. . . I just find it super annoying to try and break. Matchmaking and maps can, essentially screw you over. It's not enough of a point to worry about. . .sometimes you just accept the loss and work on some mechanical skill during that match and be happy when you get a pick you wouldn't ordinarily. I will say, flounder Tower/rainmaker does seem to run into the fact that someone will always 'spawn camp/shark' once a team passes check point two. . . weapon match-ups matter. . .as does personal skill of which I admit I very much lacking in.
I think this is my first comment for you! First - thank you for the awesome channel! Sploon3 is my entry point to the series (and "competitive FPS" in general) and you've definitely helped me gain a better undestanding of the game, it's weapons, and it's mechanics. SO I really want to talk about spawn camping because I see it often in unranked Turf War, where you either get a bad comp, someone is learning a new weapon, or it's you with an awesome banner and badges, and then three yellow and green learner permits. *sigh* So I've been playing a "breakout loadout" with ninja squid, swim speed up, and ink resistance up. I pair it with Aerospray, inkbrush, or (Neo)Sploosh/Splash. I'll figure out where they have no/little coverage and when I see the opening I break for it with shoot-swim-shoot-swim and the occasional sub weapon. Usually a pair of them will peel off to chase me, and then my teammates can use the opportunity to push out behind me. I'll super jump back and join the push, or shark and see if I can pop them when they aren't expecting it. It's a challenging and fun way to play, sometimes super frustrating if it doesn't work, but it's better than just diving into the meat grinder. Maybe other people who are frustrated can try this playstyle!
I partially disagree, although I think there’s only a couple of things I would change to prevent spawncamping completely. I think that spawn armour shouldn’t glow, as being made a glowing target as soon as you spawn puts a struggling player in an immediately disadvantageous position that prevents them from being able to counterplay. I also think that instakill specials shouldn’t instakill through spawn armour, like bombs don’t. Respawning only to get instakilled by a trizooka halfway across the map is cheap, especially in maps like Mahi-Mahi and Um’ami Ruins where the attacking team can push up ridiculously close to the defending teams safe zone. On top of so many maps having points of no return out of spawn for defending teams that lead directly into hallways, I personally think that the game could do more to give a defending player counterplay options, rather than the only option being to farm your own instakill/crossmap specials like tristrike and crab to force the attackers back.
Although this is prominently from a non-competitive point of view, it isn’t a problem from a comp pov. A struggling casual player feeling like they don’t have an opportunity to escape being instakilled at spawn isn’t going to help how they feel about the game and it’s balance.
I think a big part of it is getting paired with random players, especially in turf war, who don't know how to counter this aggressive playstyle. And unfortunately the best advice for them is to keep practicing and trying to learn new strategies instead of just throwing themselves at the other team over and over, which can't happen when you can't talk to your teammates.
I don’t understand the point in spawncamping in Turf. I don’t like being spawncamped or doing the spawncamping because it’s unfair to me. Like, personally you’d have to be a massive asshole in the game and irl to be desperate enough to spawncamp. Turf is supposed to be casual and FUN, but doing spawncamps isn’t fun to me, no matter if I’m the one getting it or not. Why not just move to Ranked if you want to do that so much. I rarely sneak into the enemy base for this reason. I don’t want to be the asshole by doing it and making things unfair.
even the key to spawncamping in solo queues is just to push till spawn and back out just so you can push back again. Since all maps have a point whare only thing that can reach you is bombs and the only thing that makes a spawn camp not work is good area control from a safe position.
It is a big problem in the casual scene, especially during events like Splatfest, where the game’s focus on quick matchmaking at the expense of tight skill matching will result in matches where no amount of focusing on how they exit spawn will allow a player who plays a handful of times per month to break a spawn lock against the Division 2 quad that is keeping them there.
Spawn camping definitely is more of a thing in turf war. The Pokemon splatfest, not the recent one, the Red Vs. Blue we had years ago, I was on Team Blue & Ancho-V games was one of the maps in rotation for it, back during the first game when there were not rotating maps for splatfest. I didn't lose a single match that splatfest, my friend that was on the same team as me was also in the same boat. It's been years so I can't quite recall how we did it, I think this was during a time when you couldn't join up with friends during splatfest but we somehow managed to get on the same team & we were very coordinated with spawn camping at Ancho-V Games, we kept eyes on the apposing routes & alerted each other. I played the N-Zap 89 so I was on fan duty, she played ink brush so we both had ink strikes & we would also keep eyes on the game pads so if there was a leak, we knew & would fire an ink strike at it. We were evil, it's the most aggressive I ever was back in the day, typically, I preferred just inking turf which is why I usually stick to turf war. I don't remember how the other maps went, we kept ending up getting Ancho-V Games but when we did get others, we did not camp in them. Camp Triggerfish is one of my favorite maps, at the time of that splatfest, it was the top of my favorites although that has changed over the years, it makes sense that I performed well on the map but I can not for the life of me remember those matches, wish there was a way to go back & look at them. When playing in other modes, lately have been primarily doing splat zones since like I said, I enjoy inking turf & a zone is just a limited amount of turf, spawn camping has not been a thing & actually has been quite enjoyable. I find that in turf war, I tend to be a middle hog so I just transfer those tendencies into zones. I did use the Custom Splattershot Jr. but ever since my baby, the N-Zap 89 came back, been playing that, just wish I could coordinate with my friend again, she has ascended beyond my capabilities so we don't play together as much anymore & if we do end up having a little fun in turf war, she handicaps herself by playing a weapon she's not good with which makes it less fun so I just don't play with her so much anymore but wish I could, would be so much better if I could coordinate using my chumps & all that, I've died to good chump coordination from the apposing team.
Ok so I don't know how to make this known, but there is a glitch with the booyah bomb and vacuum where even if the booyah bomb is sucked up, it kills the vacuum player, and it wasn't lag because there was a person right next to them when they died, they just died out of nowhere
A note from my experience with this. In the event of players who are attempting this *maliciously* (meaning they're more focused on the camping than actually inking, leaving a lot of the map *entirely un-inked* until the end), you probably won't actually have much of an opportunity to try and break through with a special, and they'll also know how to dodge it effectively. What I've found works most *instead* in that case, though very map dependent, is to try and sneak past them when they're paying attention to your teammates. Get behind them and start inking as much turf as you can across as much of the map as you can; it's not about total ink, but about spreading it as far as possible in order to force the enemy to pull away from the spawncamp and delaying their ability to do it again by keeping their attention split.
Unless the enemy team is EXCEEDINGLY better than mine, I can still find a way to break out and push back. Which is actually very satisfying. If they can successfully keep me at my base, then good for them, it's just a game, I don't care if someone is better than me. I find teammates who just throw a tantrum and give up when it happens to our team way more annoying tbh.
The easiest fix they should make is changing spawn armor to spawn invincibility. It doesn't matter if you hit that perfect trizooka shot, if you are close enough that the other team has spawn armor against you they shouldn't die instantly after respawning.
Also, you can no jump in wherever you want with ink armor, so the counterplay could also be just to rush them and 1v1 as fast as you can, before you lose your free armor.
I guess that's a way Ninty could 'fix' spawncamping, just increase the duration of the free armor to at least allow the spawncamped team to reach the fork on the map, allowing them to flank but not too long that it becomes too easy to abuse
I understand what you’re getting at, and I agree that spawn camping isn’t a problem in ranked modes and most coordinated play. But the points you made about coordinating with your team to push out in turf war are hardly of any use in solo play with how little communication options there are in the game, which makes being able escaping spawn camping very much based on individual skill and/or strategy knowledge of your teammates. I’m not saying anything needs to or even should be done about spawn camping (trying to do something about it would only be unhealthy for the game). I’m just saying that acknowledging spawn camping isn’t entirely “just play around it” for every level of play and instead being understanding for players who just aren’t experienced enough to make these strategies work most of the time (especially when a match’s skill difference is high, which is the main cause of spawn camping) is important for keeping good relations across all parts of the community.
THANK YOU im so glad to see a comment like this! im an overfisher so im by no means bad at the game, but i get spawncamped in turf war soo often and i dont want to spend even more of my time trying so hard to improve in a mode i just want to play casually. people always say "just learn to work around it" instead of ever calling out how toxic some people get because jfc, some people in these comments genuinely *love* just making lower-level/average players suffer on purpose
Part of my grief with splat3 is that if I want to use turf to try new weapons in a casual environment, unless I stack a lobby with friends, solo queue is unbearable. The map philosophy is easily the biggest draw for me, because the weapons I want to enjoy are at such a disadvantage that I don't get anything out of playing them without getting a squad together--and most of my friends are tired for the same reasons. Dynamo in solo queue? No thanks. I prefer anchors and back liners, not shooters, and it feels like filing my own teeth trying to play more than a handful of matches in solo. Trying to coordinate with strangers, trying to play to their strategies since they are often slayers running and dying - it rarely works. Does it work more in ranked? Yes. That's why I rarely play anything other than ranked or salmon run, but since I only care for splat zones and I can't queue with friends in a series, it just feels like I'm waiting for a narrow window of when the game feels playable.
I agree with all your points, but I think it’s worth mentioning that the way the spawn system works in S3 leads to some genuinely unfair scenarios. I really don’t like that Trizooka and Ultra Stamp can OKHO through your spawn armor. I had one match where me and 2 other teammates were sniped by a thrown Ultra Stamp before we even hit the ground. In S1 and 2, you at least had a small barrier that you could hide in to give you _some_ way to leave spawn without immediately getting splatted.
That costs an ENTIRE special just to do that once though. Yes it's possible to get a kill before you hit the ground. Is it consistently doable? No way, they would either have to retreat to where there is paintable turf if any to do it again, at which point you can leave the spawn, or they will run out of turf to paint at your spawn. Doing this only takes you out of the fight for around 5 seconds, after which you can do everything suggested in the video.
I remember I think it was in Splat 1 with the dome map. The enemy team had the entire map covered and my teammates and I coudn’t get off spawn for two seconds before being splatted again. We were just trapped
If my team spawn camps I usually hang around mid to find the stragglers who get past them. Cause like damn they got it skill wise and I’m a hydra so like…. I’ll just obliterate the side routes
My wish would be for all the Turf Maps to have some section of their spawn 100% inaccesible for enemy players. Most of the people who run into spawn camping problems are the casual crowd playing turf. You don't have the coordination or experience to easily pull out of that situation. What those people need is breathing room than gives them the incentive to calm down, get their bearings and assess the situation. Part of being a Level Designer is teaching mechanics to players subconsciously through map design, and in this instance I feel the current maps fail at this. Giving players in turf a safe area would go a long way to giving them the time to actually think, and thus learn. I know you can technically stay in the spawning machine forever, but there's several problems with it. For one, it's not at all clear you can do this. Second, the crowd that gets most impacted by spawn camping just want to enter battle again. In the spawning machine you can't move, jump, do any sort of commands; you're trapped and it's the human instinct to get out. Give that same player a safe area where they're in full control of their character and it's more likely they'll stop for a second (though far from guaranteed). In a way I prefer the spawn system from Splatoon 1 and 2 for this reason (even if you're camped you can at least have control inside your safe bubble) though that approach has other problems.
My hot take is spawncamping isnt a problem in any game, you're the one at an advantage with full health and your entire team.If you're not breaking out of it, you need to figure out why and adapt. (yes, map design contributes heavily to this.. like how the spawn door might be a choke that the campers have better mobility and sightlines (2fort tf2 for example) but splatoon in particular literally gives the "camped" players the high ground. You are at an advantage.)
Splatoon does have super jumping which isn't present in other games and does make it harder to push back a strong push/spawn camping close to your spawn. Sniping the super jump spots may not be possible to the disadvantaged team because of their comp or inability to respond to the more coordinated enemy team.
Well, yes and no. Splatoon 3 doesn't really incentivize spawn camping, but it very much has maps where locking opponents in their base is very strong because defenders can control all access points to leave it easily from advantageous terrain. Eeltail Alley, Hammerhead Bridge, and Scorch Gorge (if they can actually get inside your base) all give players ideal ways to lock you inside your base. Sturgeon Shipyard isn't the worst, but retaking your court is pretty hard. Brinewater Springs is the closest thing to encouraging actual spawn camping, simply because the map is so small that not pushing into the enemy base means letting them freely contest mid. Spawn camping is also a very strong defender strat in tricolor, for what that's worth. Tons of attacker teams will just be two short-range shooters, and you can just camp their drop out of spawn with something like Wiper or Dualie Squelchers that they simply can't contest, to prevent them from ever getting specials or getting near the signal. This was ridiculously strong on the Mincemeat tricolor map that offered no cover at all for attackers as they leave their base.
uh ok 😶another hot take video cool though! i was just thinking about this yesterday. the biggest thing for me is: if i'm winning a turf war match, but then purposefully throw because "spawn camping bad", that's going to let down my team. when defending in tricolor this weekend, i went way into the enemies' base. the way i played could be seen as "spawn camping", but it wasn't even a foolproof strategy-people could slip through, and that's risky because then they can reach the ultra signal. half of the reason it worked so well is because people would see me in their base, think "wait, that's illegal" and run _straight_ _toward_ my line of fire. i think prochara said this in his spawn camping video, but: the bigger problem is matchmaking rather than a skill issue. if the teams are evenly matched, _that's_ when the advice you gave best fits. play more safely, paint for special, etc. it's good advice to learn from regardless, but sometimes it won't alleviate the frustration if the other team is several ranks above you. or, if you get put into a team with like three backlines
@@jimmynonvak6006Nah. Some of these maps are such utter shit that at a certain point there’s nothing you, as an individual player can do. Take Hammerhead Bridge for example. Most of the time if your team loses the first fight in mid, it’s GG. Without a good team, there’s nothing that you alone can do to stop the enemy push to your base. Since the map is a straight line, at a certain point you’re basically stuck in a corner. There’s a flank to the side, but it’s very easy to have a player just watch that point and splat anyone that tries to pass. Eventually you can get pushed so far that you can’t even get to the flank. The last thing I would tell someone in this situation is that it’s entirely their fault.
Good video but you forgot a big part of it. ESPECIALLY especially in Turf, teams are much less coordinated than in ranked, which makes it far too easy to get tilted. I'm not a competitive player, just don't have the time for it, so I mostly just do solo q X Rank games and S+etc series, and I agree that spawn camping doesn't really work. Eventually either team can push the other team back enough to contest mid/the objective, but if done well it's a good way to waste the other team's time and resources away from the objective, especially for Zones. (Aka no numbers disadvantage) Of course, if the attacking team gets too greedy, it's common that they go down 2 or 3 and then the other team can easily push back and take the objective. I've been on both sides of that equation haha. Now, this is in ranked. In Turf, I have experienced very effective camping.. mostly when my team is particularly uncoordinated, and do exactly what you said they shouldn't. They see the map and try to slip past the campers to desperately Turf the stage, only for an enemy to break off and splat them. Over and over. Effective spawn camping doesn't happen often but it does happen, unlike ranked where it virtually never happens. And like you said, some maps are worse than others. In the splatfest last weekend(the only time I really play Turf), Manta Maria was the worst of the maps. I had two games where the enemy managed to make it onto the high grates right in front of spawn, a charger and a heavy splattling respectively, and the teams just could NOT deal with it. In hindsight I could have probably done a better job, but I made the mistake of getting tilted and trying to splat the long range camper by myself with Splat dualies instead of doing something more logical... Like trying to farm for crab and going in with another teammate. Which I'm sure they would have done once they saw a teammate trying to crab out the campers. And the worst part was, I did manage to splat the campers, but ended up trading both times.. so basically they would just super jump back to the same spot because we had not dealt with the rest of their team still camping on the ledges behind the mast. 😅 My 2 cents
I finally have a video to send to a couple friends detailing why spawn camping isn't really a major issue, lmao. You'll get pinned in this game a lot, sure, especially when new, but that is part of the fun.
My X Power in Splat Zones is 1700-something and I see spawn camping literally all the time, I almost feel Splat Zones as a mode itself almost encourages it in a way that’s just my experience
I play an okay amount of turf war and a tip for spawn campers. Don't do it until the last minute of the game. Your taking away paint to build up specials and giving your opponent paint to build up theirs, so their more likely to break through early than late when they have time. Do it when its time to finish them off not early in the game, because unless your a good two ticks better than your opponent your just giving them chances and they will probably break out at some point. Treat the enemy base as a finisher and don't paint it early, as long as you have your own base and mid you'll win anyways.
The only time spawn camping was actually an issue was ONCE in casual turf war. An asshole on Inkblot got up to the top part of the map and kept killing our team as soon as we spawned in. Basically, it was keeping our team from being able to even play the game with no way of countering. That’s the only time I would consider spawn camping an issue, because it actively made the game unfun for everyone, including the opposing team who all basically stopped playing halfway through.
I had one match during the splatfest where they locked us down hard but we just failed to gain back any momentum and were uncoordinated. But that was it. Even on other matches where we got pushed to spawn we were able to either reset to neutral or even overtake and win.
I think a benefit also is that Splatoon 3 got rid of some arbitrary respawn times that Splat2n and 1 had. As soon as you get splatted, you can already have respawned instantly. And if you traded, that's even better bc at the very least, there's one less player waiting for you to land so they can splat you. I said this as a reply, but I'll say it here, too: If you're getting spawn camped, listen to this video. I'm sure you've tried it, but others need to realize that going head first into a better positioned team splatting you in your base is just gonna get you splatted. Find another route without getting spotted to the best of your ability to go and flank them. I can't tell you how many times I've saved my own team because I snuck around the pushing players and inked up turf behind them while they were focused on trying to camp us. I'm sure many of you have done the same.
idk about this one Gem. Spawn camping in Turf war really does suck because there is not much skillbased matchmaking, and especially so in soloq. It makes you feel like total garbage and you can't properly play the game, god forbid you're using a weapon you've never tried in PvP before. Literally, I absolutely hate trying new weapon types in this game. It is wholly incentivizing. You shouldn't have to be using your good weapon and be carrying your team to break out of a spawn camp. One player spawncamping is okay and easily overcome, but it is almost always 2 or more of them doing it.
Splatoon 3's respawn system helps avoid spawn camping more than s1 and s2, as well, since you aren't necessarily going to respawn in the same exact position.
Fixing spawncamping would actually be very easy; just make it so that spawn areas have a barrier which instantly splats the enemy team, and turf war matches are instead won by controlling mid. This way, the losing team has a chance to push again. Plus, each spawn area takes up 25% of the map, so that’s where the barriers are placed
In my opinion, spawn camping is ONLY acceptable in tower control and rainmaker. If you are playing turf war or splat zones, you should never, and I mean NEVER, spawn camp. (Idk about clam blitz because I don’t know how to play clam blitz)
I completely agree with the idea that breaking a spawn camp is primarily about your mentality. Not once have I had a situation where playing it safe and using high ground to your advantage doesn't yield favorable results. Conversely, if I panic or a teammate panics, it leads to making bad plays or trickling into the enemy team to get killed one by one. I play TF2 a lot and spawncamping in that game can sometimes be far worse because maps are poorly designed. And even then, spawncamping isn't something that I think needs to be banned or that is "immoral" to do. Even that game has methods to break a spawncamp, and Splatoon does it infinitely better, so I don't think there is any excuse to complain about it.
Sometimes I just want to play turf war casually for fun. I wanna try out different weapons other than JUST the ones i'm good at. I wanna shut my brain off and play Splatoon and have a good time. I queue up turf war, play a match, and get spawn camped. The game instantly loses its ability to be fun. I don't even blame the other team for spawn camping, because the maps ENCOURAGE it. It was an issue in previous games, but Splatoon 3 maps have not addressed the issue. In fact, they made it worse by forcing player interactions through narrower map designs (that also favor chargers... And getting sniped after just coming out of spawn really doesn't feel too good when it happens dozens of time in a match.) I get that there are ways to break out of it, but sometimes given our team's comp and also horrendous matchmaking, it's just not possible. And that's frustrating to me. It's honestly to the point where I don't even feel like playing PvP anymore and mostly play Salmon Run.
These tips seem nice but I have trouble putting them into practice against players that are just better than me, and snipe me before I even get out of spawn, regardless of mode. Again, just, awful awful matchmaking, in a game that makes zero effort to teach the player about anything.
I think the projectile that would have hit the player hit the wall on the right, so the shot was on target but the part of it that was supposed to make contact was gone
The main issue I feel that casuals struggle with is how Splatoon by nature is a Team Based Shooter. By that I mean they don't exactly try to make use of callouts, like ever. I know this game is pretty bad with their callouts but so many times when I get splatted I press Ouch in order for someone to notice "Hey my teammate is down, maybe theres an enemy nearby" but don't notice and then everyone is Splatted by the single enemy by the time I respawn, even when nobody is approaching our turf this occurs.
I agree that spawncamping isn't a problem for the most part, losing to a team that's better than you is a part of the game. However, I think that when a team that is far more skilled than the other purposefully ignores the objective in order to rack up a high KA to, idk, post on twitter or something? then that crosses a line. I came across a div 3 team in open that gets an early lead with the rainmaker and then lets it reset instead of KOing and spawncamping for the rest of the game against whoever they are fighting in open. I have no problem losing to stronger players (although I think the fact that open, the least competitive way to play the ranked modes, can put you against full competitive teams with callouts is bad game design, but that's a seperate issue) but in those cases, I usually get KOd very quickly, and can reflect on what I did wrong. When teams are ignoring the objective for kills, I'd say that is cruel to players who are looking to truly play and improve and now are forced to die repeatedly without the opportunity to do much about it, other than admit they are mechanically inferior. This is also bad for the competitive scene as newer players will see competitive players going into matches with the express purpose of spawncamping instead of playing the objective and that will reflect a bad image of the scene as a whole.
Hey dude I don’t think you understand that casuals don’t have time to improve because most of us have better things to do in life, and you’re here saying “lol just adapt to spawn camping.” You need to know that casuals in general, only play the game once in while and just want to relax after a day of school or work, only to be spawncamped by 4 Japanese sweats who pretend to be sick just to tryhard on others. Most of us here are trying to get good grades, work on our goals, and overall just improve our lives. We can’t just “adapt” like that. Can’t believe you’re just bullying them 😒
I see what he’s saying, but I feel this in my soul. It isn’t fun to jump into a game after work and get pushed back into spawn so far that you can’t even get to mid without being splatted by some coked out competitive player. I have a full time job, I don’t have time to spend hours a day mastering the game.
Pretty sure almost only new players think spawncamping is unfair, you naturally have an advantage when you spawn against those in front of you, in rainmaker and tower control it's always the hardest part when pushing through the enemy spawn for the objective as they will always have high ground and armor frames when respawning, people usually make come backs after being wipedout when the pushing team isn't able to score KO fast enough they take back the objective and reset it after wiping the other team out if they play well, if you're getting spawncamped and can't get out of it despite the clear advantage then you shouldn't expect to be able to contest the main objective to begin with, it all comes down to who's the better team even in turf war
I saw a comment on kivers video “this is what 1200 wins with trizooka looks like”. They replied to someone saying “yeah if a frontline weapon can be played as backline thats what makes them meta” what’s your take?
Solution: Make maps that are less linear, and restrict the more linear ones to Ranked. While this is only an issue that casual players have, *casual players are the SUBSTANTIAL MAJORITY of the player base.* Conversely, remember that opponents *cannot* get onto your spawn platform.
Spawncamping is something that'll happen in any game. It's just one of those things you're going to come across in team fights because there's no matchmaking system in the world that will always generate fun/engaging matches. That said, it doesn't make it any less annoying to endure and I understand wanting to at least mention it, especially when something like the recent tricolour matches on makomart gave attackers like one ledge that was only reachable by them. At that point it's hard to argue it's not partially a map design problem, imo.
I cannot say a single time I have been spawn camped in Splatoon 3. Like, yeah enemies have gotten into our base and killed us in our base but definitely haven't experienced spawn camping, aside from maybe if I wanted to exaggerate something thay happened during turf war, near exclusively.
Banning should only happen if a certain thing was not intended in the game that makes you unbeatable for 1 reason or another. Example is melee. Wave dashing is allowed because 1 all players can do it and 2 it’s not the defining factor of the game. In comparison, infinites, which is a grab throw regrab infinite that you can’t escape and causes so damage that the match is unwinable for the other person. There is a a reason infinites are and wavedashing isn’t
Its not overpowered or even all that good a strat, but it feels awful when it happens to you especially when you know the start of this sentence because its literally sitting there like "yeah this team is SO much better than you they are using a sub optimal strategy and you can't seem to do anything about it cus u suck"
Spawncaming isn’t a problem in COMPETITIVE Splatoon. It absolutely is a problem in turf war though. That whole mode is just “Who gets spawncamed first loses”. Even certain ranked modes have that issues namely splat zones. Competitive doesn’t have this issue but it is demoralizing in S rank.
Splatoon 3 in particular really favors spawning players over camping players in a way that previous titles didn't. In Splatoon and 2, you were only safe in the impenetrable bubble of the spawn platform. Step outside and you're in danger again. In 3, you spawn with armor and pick where you land. While you're not invincible, you do have some breathing room for assessing the situation and making smart decisions.
I personally think casual players play to have fun and spawn camping isn't fun does casuals hate it it isn't about fair or skill let me give a example bowling you can bowl normally or with the two sides being blocked off it comes down what you want if you just wanna throw pins over and not care to much about score than having no gutter is great but if you do care about scores maybe not there may be solutions to spawn camping but that no fun so they don't do it here the thing I am not talking down on casuals if anything it's great that they can in joy the game without thinking to much about what they are doing
I don't think people are referring to 'Spawn Camping' per se, they're referring to Spawn *Lockouts* Lockouts are much, much more problematic - which is again due to the map design, in which most competitive players agree that the maps are garbage.
Wait, people complain about spawncamping because they think its effective? I always thought people just complained because they felt like players were leveraging their skill gap to bully them all the way back into spawn.
I'm going to preface this rant by saying I am a purely casual player, with little interest in super competitive gaming in general. I've been saying for years to the dismay of many of my friends who strongly disagree: "spawncamping is unfair" always always always translates to this: "I am bad at the game and want to make my own fun the responsibility of my opponents". Is being spawncamped fun? No, of course not. But it is YOUR/YOUR TEAM'S responsibility to devise a plan to push the enemies away from your spawn and make it out onto the field. If you cannot, then the superior team and players have clearly been identified and you need to suck it up and deal with it. Complaining about spawncamping is asking your opponent(s) to throw the game so that you can waddle on in. And let me be clear, If you are being spawncamped at...well, your spawn, you NEVER had a shot of pushing the objective. Why? Because if the opponent is oppressing you that hard and you aren't able to offer necessary resistance, no matter where you are on the map the outcome would be the same, and it's foolish to make arguments otherwise. The skill difference is plain as day. Look at Payload-style gamemodes in other shooter games like TF2 or Overwatch. The payload almost always starts right outside the attacking team's spawn. The defending team wants to prevent the attacking team from pushing the payload. Therefore the defending team needs to set up their defenses and strategy right outside attacking team's spawn. You could say, then, that these gamemodes encourage or mandate spawncamping. If spawncamping was as "unfair" as a lot of players claim it as being, would this not give the defending team a free win or at the very least a massive advantage? But does it really? No, most good teams and even some mediocre teams can still push out of spawn, force the enemy team back, and begin to push the payload to get a foothold in the game and that momentum can be enough to make the game nice and even. I will concede however that Splatoon arguably has it worse, as in other games you can change your loadout/class/character on the fly to adapt to the situation presented to you. If you play a short range weapon and you're being spawncamped by a charger or long-range shooter, or if you play a weapon that needs 2-4 shots to kill and you're being camped by a 1-shot blaster or slosher, sure it can be a bit harder to deal with in a "weapon matchup" sense, but you just need to communicate to your team, or identify the threat and stealth around to counter the spawncamping strategy. Counterplay exists, and like I said at the start, complaining about it is fruitless. If you are on red team being spawncamped by blue team, then it is red team's responsibility to push out and play the game, it is certainly not blue team's job to let red team win. Please, stop acting in contrary.
I agree. Each time I feel like the opposing team is camping (which is SO often when people are scared of Chargers), I spam "This way!" after finding an opening. Often times, the pushing team will stay in one spot to splat players who are going in one direction to leave, which is just easy splats for the other team. Not to brag, bc I'm sure other people have this experience, too, but whenever I find an opening away from the spawncampers/pushing team, and say "This way!", others follow and splatted them back, which has lead to us winning in the last 30 seconds. While I do think there are still improvements to be made to prevent spawncamping, it's better than the days of Splatoon 1 where someone could be hiding, watching you walk out of your spawn bubble, and instantly splat you. There are ways to maneuver in Splatoon 3, at least, that can stop ppl from wiping out your team every 5 seconds.
@@ADreamCalledEternity THANK YOU. I see a lot of other comments being like "But in Solo Queue" and like, yeah, the lack of in-came comms can make some coordination hard. But spamming "Ouch!" when the camper splats you or "This Way!" when you've got a way around or managed to finally push the camper back can be enough to bring attention to the issue and get your team to focus the camper(s) or get morale back up once the situation is cleared. I'll confess I havn't ever had a major "I got spawncamped" moment in this game, I think enough maps are well enough designed (er-, In this specific context-)with the unreachable high ground spawn zones to make it significantly harder to do without some slosher spam or a really good charger, but especially based on team comps where all you need is a good bit of pressure, or a single player to push to the objective or harass the camper to make them look away, and the problem is resolved. Maybe my initial comment can come off as harsh because no one wants to be told "you suck and if you lose you lose suck it up", but with a surprising amount of counterplay even as a single player, and once people adopt the mindset of "It is my responsibility to earn the victory in this situation, not my opponent's responsibility to back off and hand it to me", Spawncamping in this game and most others REALLY isn't a problem
I suspect you're missing the wood for the trees on this one. Though you're absolutely right that it shouldn't be banned, and that it isn't an issue in competitive. My concern about spawn camping isn't with top level play, or even my experiences. More 'OK, how does this make the game look and/or feel for Timmy and Tammy who got the game on their 8th birthdays and are playing for the first time now' - The players who if the game makes a good first impression on might wind up playing Splatoon 6 competitively in 10 years time or whatever. And, yeah. Nothing we can actually do to control that. But it is why I'm concerned about the map design of S3, more than I'm concerned about it for top level play. Or even my level of play where I'm not a competitive player of any time, but... At some point I have to start admitting I might not be as awful as I think I am by default. Spawn camping isn't a problem at top level play, sure. But Splatoon isn't just a grassroots eSport. And, yeah, you offer counterplay to it. Someone who's just gotten Splatoon, the sort of players who if put into that position, spawn camping impacts most, isn't watching this sort of video. People who have already fallen in love with the game and want to get better at it are. (This is an issue with the map design rather than the way people choose to play the game, some of the maps basically lead you into spawn camping in Turf War, and most of the maps only have one route out of spawn. And, honestly, some of the fixes I want for newer players generally - larger spawns, more 'redundant' routes out of spawn, even if they don't bypass mid making them more questionable as flanks, just options that let them feel like their contributing even if they're doing very little in real terms before they've reached level 4 and have access to Splatoon's best mode while getting them used to the controls they've been practicing in single player and only getting into fights on their terms rather than being forced into them earlier than they might be comfortable with due to the way the map's designed.) (I view respawn punisher in a similar way, honestly. I don't dislike it because it's bad for competitive, or unbalanced, or whatever, I dislike it because it keeps people from playing the game for longer, which... At competitive is a colossal shrug. For newer players who haven't yet gotten into Splatoon, that's a problem)
Personally, I don’t think newer players should or even wants to be babied. Given the raise of mercilessly hard games like Dark Souls and Elden Ring and how popular COD is that also has a hardcore scene, casuals for the most part don’t seem to mind getting their teeth kicked in. It almost always the online community who complains about camping or the ‘little Timmies’ drying to Chargers.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
You know, it's kinda funny how this always seems to come up after a splatfest ends
HMMMMMMM
LMAO
And because it's the defending team strategy in Tricolor
probably because players are forced into a competitive situation regardless of how they usually play. some people take splatfest turf way more seriously than regular turf war, and casual players are more likely to see really aggressive play
This actually came up in the chat during the final matches of the PAX East tournament. Someone joked about it and the chat went absolutely goofy on the topic. I assume that's what inspired this video because people get really stupid really fast when it comes to spawn camping.
Spawn Camping in Turf War is honestly a bad idea. As mentioned, it only takes one wipe to lose the game. I can write a novel and have enough material for a sequel over how many times my team shat the bed because they spawn camped and all died to one Special. I did this myself by slowly picking off the campers and when all my team was back at base because they died, released an Ink Storm. Wiped the entire team in one big push.
i honestly think this (USUALLY) is more of an issue related to new players not knowing the right words to use. from my experience i dont think so many people think spawncamping is an oppressive strategy, more that they are confused why they are being put against an oppressive team.
Yeah the game has a problem with matchmaking, if it pits 3-4 pro tier players against a team of low-mid players and they get into a situation where theyre spawn locked, it feels bad, and is a failure of the matchmaking that in essence looks as though the game is just allowing spawncamping.
Game needs more spawn flanks regardless, then it would be mostly impossible to lock a spawn down.
I once got matched with a coordinated, competitive team in Open...
...While I was climbing the ranks in A+.
@@SomeGalNamedEve I mean, that's on you for joining Open. It doesn't match you according to your rank, that's for Series.
@@poketronex Still, it shouldn't put A+ players against a coordinated, competitive team that got a knockout in a single Clam Blitz push within a minute of the battle starting >_>
@@SomeGalNamedEve the game isn't going to know who's a group of coordinated players or not. You can't even say that a group of friends joining on a team is coordinated, there's literally no guarantee that they're on VC, skilled together, or what. Series is for *solo* play, you cannot complain about facing coordinated teams in the *team version* of anarchy.
The only time I've "spawncamped" anyone in Splatoon is when the skill difference is so huge that I'm just able to win 1v4s, as in like post Christmas new player influx. That isn't really spawncamping tho, just 1v4ing, and any game that tries to "fix" that just really hits the skill ceiling hard.
Also, it's worse in Turf War, but that mode has a billion problems in general since it's clearly meant to be a casual gamemode and thus taking it seriously is just a bad idea in general.
Back in Splatoon 2 I had turf war match where the enemy team had 3 disconnects halfway through the match, so I just went and stood still in front of the last remaining player, who was behind their spawn shield, and then we just started jumping together, while the rest of my team was squid partying, I think. We just had nothing else to do for a whole minute.
This reminds me of how post-melee smash games seek to reduce the skill gap by lowering the skill ceiling instead of raising the skill floor
Yeah, in Splatoon 3, true spawncamping doesn't even exist, between the aerial spawn system and the fact that all the maps have a spawn region that is typically inaccessible to the other team (use of recall mobility specials like zipcaster and inkjet doesn't count) and provides an advantage against an opponent who is outside of it, not to mention spawn armor is a thing. True spawn camping would have the other team simply killing you as soon as you spawn, without ability to fight back, or possibly even react, regardless of your own skill or knowledge (assuming a certain minimum amount from the spawn camper).
In the first two games, you could make an argument for true spawn camping existing, as some maps would make it possible for the enemy to get all the way to the spawn shield, and if said enemy out-ranges you, there's not really anything you can do from inside it, and you would just get splatted if you leave it.
@@RiahGreen I can agree, as long as we can shake that L-cancelling is bad and not an example. As someone who's played both Smash Ultimate and P+ I love the P+ movement, but L-cancelling just feels bad.
That's why I like playing ranked more often. So many of the flaws from Turf and gone in ranked. It does bring in its own problems, but the pros of fun outweigh it, in my opinion of course.
I only play Turf War when I'm forced to during Splatfests.
i only go in turf war if i want to mess around with new weapons nowadays or just grinding sheldon licenses. though opens are probably quicker now that i think about it
I wonder if using a drivers mindset would help in a game like splatoon? When learning to drive, at least here in the UK and hopefully across other countries, we're taught to anticipate (to the best of your ability) and to act accordingly in order to *prevent* the situation from getting out of hand or *dangerous* , usually this is done in the "hazard perception test" half of your theory test (which you need to pass before you can sit your practical).
Thinking about it a little bit more, I can see some parallels between being camped and being stuck or inconvenienced by traffic. No one likes to be stuck behind a tractor on a main road, but being up their rear (where they can't see you) isn't going to make things better or safer for you. Most drivers will wait for a safe opportunity to overtake the tractor but some drivers will inevitably overtake when it wasn't safe. This is kinda the same with respawning in general with players immediately spawing because they're tilted rather than taking time to assess and act accordingly to the best of their ability.
I'm not gonna pretend I don't get frustrated in splatoon, we're human and we all make mistakes after all. But I know its very silly to try and overtake a lorry (truck/big rig) on a blind corner too! Its too dangerous.
Edit: also if the game devs wanted to discourage spawn camping they could inflict a debuff on the camper(s) if they remain at enemy spawn after a certain amount of time.
Man I WISH more people drove defensively. People drive like donkeys.
@@JL-jz3 Agreed. Far too many people get road rage and fight over priority when it's something that's given not taken. That said I love it when someone overtakes me only to be stopped at the lights (temporary lights in my case) with me behind them.
@@hikaru9624 Just the other day I was driving in the right lane (lol America - it's opposite here) and someone was pulling out from the left side of the road. I thought they were trying to cross in front of me, but I was blocking them as they were pulling out. I slow down and move to the right most lane as they keep pushing against me, and then, afterall that bullshit, they turn right (not left, or across the intersection). Like WHY did they have to come ALL THE WAY ACROSS FOUR LANES like that only to turn right? I swear to god I can't drive to the grocery store anymore without witnessing weird shit like that.
That aside, I just let bad drivers go off. I want nothing to do with them. Just get away from me. I don't want to be a part of their car accident.
While the information in the video is valuable and people that see it can internalize it to use to their advantage, it isn't much use when playing the game solo on pubs. Most people won't know what to do in situations where they are being spawn camped and will just keep trickling onto the enemy team until they lose. The only thing you can do in this situation is wait long enough for the chance that your whole team is alive and try to take your position, which is essentially based on chance, because it your team's deaths are so out of sync that they go to their deaths one by one, there isn't much you can do rather than just accept defeat.
all you can do is paint and try to support your teammates, and if that doesn't work, you wouldn't have won anyways
@@timcrnkovich4326 Yes, that is all you can do, though I don't particularly agree that you wouldn't have won regardless.
The best solution is to wait for a buddy to respawn. a 2v3, even an uncoordinated one on your end, is preferable over two 1v3s.
see the other team also sucks and is uncoordinated
@@internetguy7319 it is much easier to play under map control then trying to take control, however.
It's strange, because I feel like a _lot_ of Splatoon 3's design is directly for the "oh no! spawn camping ruins the game!" 'issue'. There's a new spawn system that lets you roll out in different areas, you've got armor that lasts for a while, and above all else...
THE MAPS
Every single map goes so overboard trying to make it as impossible as they can get it for you to enter the enemy's spawn area. But of course, this has resulted in the most obnoxious maps that restrict flanks and make _retreating_ impossible because, well, if you were allowed to go back to your spawn, the enemies could go, too! it's so agonizing
one thing that some people don't realize too: you can stay inside the spawn launcher for as long as you want!! if your team keeps getting staggered and you're struggling to find a safe place to land (can happen on a couple maps like mahi) feel free to just chill in the spawn launcher until your teammates can join you. you can then launch out of spawn together with the armor advantage to get a good fight and hopefully break the spawn camp
I had no idea people thought this was an issue. I saw “spawn camping is permitted” as a rule in a tournament I played recently and I was like what does that even mean there’s no way to spawn camp in this game it’s too hard
A coordinated team of four (or just a team with a higher skill level) can contain the other team within their spawn - I see it often in unranked turf war.
@@isturmayeah, turf war. In competitive modes it’s a completely unviable strategy because there’s an objective you want to have all hands on deck for. If spawn camping happens in a tournament it doesn’t matter anyways because the match will be over in 50 seconds tops because it means the skill gap is just too large for the losing team so the winning team will get the win from the objective. In turf war the worse team just has to sit there and take it lmao
@@isturma At a tournament, both teams are coordinated, it's impossible in that environment unless it's literally sayonara against a team who has never attended a tournament and has 6 pickups
@@isturma The only reason that works is because the other team loses their head and doesn't think critically. Breaking a "spawncamp" isn't really that hard, and if you can't, the real problem isn't that you're being camped, the problem is that you're not skilled enough compared to the other team, and turf war doesn't have a surrender option. A team that can hem you in despite all the disadvantages they suffer in doing so, is a team that is still going to thrash you even if there was a fence keeping them ten feet further back
I do think it’s generally worse to deal with this in this game. No invincible spawn shield so once the 30 hp armor is gone you’re just a normal player. And the maps are hallways making it much easier to push all the way. I don’t think this is a problem outside of turf war and even there one push will win the game. But the people playing turf war aren’t going to know what to do a lot of the time because they’re purely casual. You’ll notice people start complaining about it after splatfests where pro players are forced to play turf war with the casuals for two whole days. Really I do think the problems are exasperated by the design decisions in this game and splatfests and there isn’t much to be done if a turf war team isn’t skilled enough to deal with. But also it’s just turf war so I don’t care. I just think it’s a bit more nuanced then coordinating with a turf war team to get out of there, because that doesn’t happen a lot.
I got spawncamped for a minute last tricolor battle because I was playing a short-range weapon I didn't have experience with and me and my partner kept getting outranged by our camper. However after we finally got the ko and control back of our spawn we actually ended up winning the match over the defending team. I never realised some people try to make a discussion out of this though, I've never encountered spawn camping in anarchy battles
Tricolor kinda needs defenders to spawncamp to some degree to not basically lose to 2 in ultras going off. It's still very risky, but having 1 team locked down means less bodies to rush the ultra.
4:27 that's a splatoon match-making moment
I now hate Aerospray RG more than REEF LUX. There is at least 1 aerospray in EVERY. SINGLE. MATCH. And I am sick of the bomb spam.
tenta brella mains when they see the thumbnail: 😱😡🤬
I’m sorry for the 4 tenta mains
@@Ax19e4 still more than H3 mains 💀
Me
@@Ax19e4 hi
@@mystic5175me who's both
Nah, playing solo against a team communicating it was just impossible, and on Sturgeon there is no place they can't get. The healthiest thing was to just give up
As an Inkbrush main, me and my brush can just trailblaze my way out of the spawncamp and into their own camp, usually either getting one or two people to chase me which breaks the spawncamping, or me getting free reign on their base to spam Killer Wail. Granted, the problem comes when the chokepoint on the camp prevents me from even brushing my way out, where there's a hallway in front of the spawn that can be camped to close all possible exits (maps like Mahi comes to mind), but in most cases, them getting distracted by a inkbrush running through would be enough for my team to break the hold.
Exactly, if you can remove even 2 people from the situation, that gives the rest of your team a numbers advantage
"the chokepoint on the camp prevents me from even brushing my way out," - Umami is the biggest offender of this IMO
regrouping with your (soloq) team is the hardest part of this, because even if you don't rush in, they will, and you can adapt your plan and go help them, but your deaths are so desynced and your special gauge will be empty again... it's just an unfun position to be in. but it is an inevitable thing that will happen in these kind of games, so i don't think it should be banned or punished. but casuals are absolutely allowed to vent their frustrations at being matched with someone obviously superior in skill and having to endure that for 3 whole minutes. ultimately, i agree: spawncamping isnt a "problem", just another obstacle your team has to overcome, just like when you lose the lead in ranked modes or find yourself in a sudden 1v4, or neutralizing a charger. the right attitude and technical approach can absolutely turn things around.
I think the thing to learn is not to "be mad" (idk what a better term would be) about spawn camping, but be mad that the map doesn't have a flank route for players to get out of those oppressive moments. Hallway maps, to me, are the greatest source of my frustration.
Why Splatoon 2 (and especially 3 map design switched to this more is so strange to me)
@@jomaq9233 Splatoon 2 literally has the best spawn map design wdym
Splatoon 1 maps literally had one option out of spawn for most of them
Spawn camping in Turf war is absolutely a nightmare when it happens to you, and makes you feel bad if you pull it off. I wish it didn't get so easily enabled by the game's map design on that mode since it's less fun than the usual back and forth for territory.
My one note of contention is that super jumping makes the one pick you manage to get pretty much pointless. If their entire team is there, a lucky pick or two (especially if they trade) doesn't mean a whole lot if you're badly mismatched enough to be spawn camped in the first place. Weapon range/abilities and map design also play into this. For the record, I've only seen spawn camping in turf where the opposing team already has full map control. . .it doesn't matter there. . . I just find it super annoying to try and break. Matchmaking and maps can, essentially screw you over. It's not enough of a point to worry about. . .sometimes you just accept the loss and work on some mechanical skill during that match and be happy when you get a pick you wouldn't ordinarily.
I will say, flounder Tower/rainmaker does seem to run into the fact that someone will always 'spawn camp/shark' once a team passes check point two. . . weapon match-ups matter. . .as does personal skill of which I admit I very much lacking in.
I think this is my first comment for you! First - thank you for the awesome channel! Sploon3 is my entry point to the series (and "competitive FPS" in general) and you've definitely helped me gain a better undestanding of the game, it's weapons, and it's mechanics. SO I really want to talk about spawn camping because I see it often in unranked Turf War, where you either get a bad comp, someone is learning a new weapon, or it's you with an awesome banner and badges, and then three yellow and green learner permits. *sigh*
So I've been playing a "breakout loadout" with ninja squid, swim speed up, and ink resistance up. I pair it with Aerospray, inkbrush, or (Neo)Sploosh/Splash. I'll figure out where they have no/little coverage and when I see the opening I break for it with shoot-swim-shoot-swim and the occasional sub weapon. Usually a pair of them will peel off to chase me, and then my teammates can use the opportunity to push out behind me. I'll super jump back and join the push, or shark and see if I can pop them when they aren't expecting it. It's a challenging and fun way to play, sometimes super frustrating if it doesn't work, but it's better than just diving into the meat grinder. Maybe other people who are frustrated can try this playstyle!
I partially disagree, although I think there’s only a couple of things I would change to prevent spawncamping completely. I think that spawn armour shouldn’t glow, as being made a glowing target as soon as you spawn puts a struggling player in an immediately disadvantageous position that prevents them from being able to counterplay. I also think that instakill specials shouldn’t instakill through spawn armour, like bombs don’t. Respawning only to get instakilled by a trizooka halfway across the map is cheap, especially in maps like Mahi-Mahi and Um’ami Ruins where the attacking team can push up ridiculously close to the defending teams safe zone.
On top of so many maps having points of no return out of spawn for defending teams that lead directly into hallways, I personally think that the game could do more to give a defending player counterplay options, rather than the only option being to farm your own instakill/crossmap specials like tristrike and crab to force the attackers back.
Although this is prominently from a non-competitive point of view, it isn’t a problem from a comp pov. A struggling casual player feeling like they don’t have an opportunity to escape being instakilled at spawn isn’t going to help how they feel about the game and it’s balance.
Oof I’ve definitely feel the pain of insta death by trizooka after respawning
I think a big part of it is getting paired with random players, especially in turf war, who don't know how to counter this aggressive playstyle. And unfortunately the best advice for them is to keep practicing and trying to learn new strategies instead of just throwing themselves at the other team over and over, which can't happen when you can't talk to your teammates.
I don’t understand the point in spawncamping in Turf. I don’t like being spawncamped or doing the spawncamping because it’s unfair to me. Like, personally you’d have to be a massive asshole in the game and irl to be desperate enough to spawncamp. Turf is supposed to be casual and FUN, but doing spawncamps isn’t fun to me, no matter if I’m the one getting it or not. Why not just move to Ranked if you want to do that so much. I rarely sneak into the enemy base for this reason. I don’t want to be the asshole by doing it and making things unfair.
even the key to spawncamping in solo queues is just to push till spawn and back out just so you can push back again.
Since all maps have a point whare only thing that can reach you is bombs and the only thing that makes a spawn camp not work is good area control from a safe position.
It is a big problem in the casual scene, especially during events like Splatfest, where the game’s focus on quick matchmaking at the expense of tight skill matching will result in matches where no amount of focusing on how they exit spawn will allow a player who plays a handful of times per month to break a spawn lock against the Division 2 quad that is keeping them there.
I still wish all spawn campers a very wet socks.
I got spawn camped on the makomart tricolor map as an attacker by the defending team the whole match
Spawn camping definitely is more of a thing in turf war. The Pokemon splatfest, not the recent one, the Red Vs. Blue we had years ago, I was on Team Blue & Ancho-V games was one of the maps in rotation for it, back during the first game when there were not rotating maps for splatfest. I didn't lose a single match that splatfest, my friend that was on the same team as me was also in the same boat. It's been years so I can't quite recall how we did it, I think this was during a time when you couldn't join up with friends during splatfest but we somehow managed to get on the same team & we were very coordinated with spawn camping at Ancho-V Games, we kept eyes on the apposing routes & alerted each other. I played the N-Zap 89 so I was on fan duty, she played ink brush so we both had ink strikes & we would also keep eyes on the game pads so if there was a leak, we knew & would fire an ink strike at it. We were evil, it's the most aggressive I ever was back in the day, typically, I preferred just inking turf which is why I usually stick to turf war. I don't remember how the other maps went, we kept ending up getting Ancho-V Games but when we did get others, we did not camp in them. Camp Triggerfish is one of my favorite maps, at the time of that splatfest, it was the top of my favorites although that has changed over the years, it makes sense that I performed well on the map but I can not for the life of me remember those matches, wish there was a way to go back & look at them.
When playing in other modes, lately have been primarily doing splat zones since like I said, I enjoy inking turf & a zone is just a limited amount of turf, spawn camping has not been a thing & actually has been quite enjoyable. I find that in turf war, I tend to be a middle hog so I just transfer those tendencies into zones. I did use the Custom Splattershot Jr. but ever since my baby, the N-Zap 89 came back, been playing that, just wish I could coordinate with my friend again, she has ascended beyond my capabilities so we don't play together as much anymore & if we do end up having a little fun in turf war, she handicaps herself by playing a weapon she's not good with which makes it less fun so I just don't play with her so much anymore but wish I could, would be so much better if I could coordinate using my chumps & all that, I've died to good chump coordination from the apposing team.
Ok so I don't know how to make this known, but there is a glitch with the booyah bomb and vacuum where even if the booyah bomb is sucked up, it kills the vacuum player, and it wasn't lag because there was a person right next to them when they died, they just died out of nowhere
A note from my experience with this.
In the event of players who are attempting this *maliciously* (meaning they're more focused on the camping than actually inking, leaving a lot of the map *entirely un-inked* until the end), you probably won't actually have much of an opportunity to try and break through with a special, and they'll also know how to dodge it effectively.
What I've found works most *instead* in that case, though very map dependent, is to try and sneak past them when they're paying attention to your teammates.
Get behind them and start inking as much turf as you can across as much of the map as you can; it's not about total ink, but about spreading it as far as possible in order to force the enemy to pull away from the spawncamp and delaying their ability to do it again by keeping their attention split.
Squid school reached 60k congratulations gem🎉🎉
Unless the enemy team is EXCEEDINGLY better than mine, I can still find a way to break out and push back. Which is actually very satisfying. If they can successfully keep me at my base, then good for them, it's just a game, I don't care if someone is better than me. I find teammates who just throw a tantrum and give up when it happens to our team way more annoying tbh.
The easiest fix they should make is changing spawn armor to spawn invincibility. It doesn't matter if you hit that perfect trizooka shot, if you are close enough that the other team has spawn armor against you they shouldn't die instantly after respawning.
Also, you can no jump in wherever you want with ink armor, so the counterplay could also be just to rush them and 1v1 as fast as you can, before you lose your free armor.
I guess that's a way Ninty could 'fix' spawncamping, just increase the duration of the free armor to at least allow the spawncamped team to reach the fork on the map, allowing them to flank but not too long that it becomes too easy to abuse
I understand what you’re getting at, and I agree that spawn camping isn’t a problem in ranked modes and most coordinated play. But the points you made about coordinating with your team to push out in turf war are hardly of any use in solo play with how little communication options there are in the game, which makes being able escaping spawn camping very much based on individual skill and/or strategy knowledge of your teammates. I’m not saying anything needs to or even should be done about spawn camping (trying to do something about it would only be unhealthy for the game). I’m just saying that acknowledging spawn camping isn’t entirely “just play around it” for every level of play and instead being understanding for players who just aren’t experienced enough to make these strategies work most of the time (especially when a match’s skill difference is high, which is the main cause of spawn camping) is important for keeping good relations across all parts of the community.
THANK YOU im so glad to see a comment like this! im an overfisher so im by no means bad at the game, but i get spawncamped in turf war soo often and i dont want to spend even more of my time trying so hard to improve in a mode i just want to play casually. people always say "just learn to work around it" instead of ever calling out how toxic some people get because jfc, some people in these comments genuinely *love* just making lower-level/average players suffer on purpose
Very good point!
Part of my grief with splat3 is that if I want to use turf to try new weapons in a casual environment, unless I stack a lobby with friends, solo queue is unbearable. The map philosophy is easily the biggest draw for me, because the weapons I want to enjoy are at such a disadvantage that I don't get anything out of playing them without getting a squad together--and most of my friends are tired for the same reasons.
Dynamo in solo queue? No thanks. I prefer anchors and back liners, not shooters, and it feels like filing my own teeth trying to play more than a handful of matches in solo. Trying to coordinate with strangers, trying to play to their strategies since they are often slayers running and dying - it rarely works.
Does it work more in ranked? Yes. That's why I rarely play anything other than ranked or salmon run, but since I only care for splat zones and I can't queue with friends in a series, it just feels like I'm waiting for a narrow window of when the game feels playable.
I agree with all your points, but I think it’s worth mentioning that the way the spawn system works in S3 leads to some genuinely unfair scenarios. I really don’t like that Trizooka and Ultra Stamp can OKHO through your spawn armor. I had one match where me and 2 other teammates were sniped by a thrown Ultra Stamp before we even hit the ground.
In S1 and 2, you at least had a small barrier that you could hide in to give you _some_ way to leave spawn without immediately getting splatted.
That costs an ENTIRE special just to do that once though. Yes it's possible to get a kill before you hit the ground. Is it consistently doable? No way, they would either have to retreat to where there is paintable turf if any to do it again, at which point you can leave the spawn, or they will run out of turf to paint at your spawn. Doing this only takes you out of the fight for around 5 seconds, after which you can do everything suggested in the video.
I remember I think it was in Splat 1 with the dome map. The enemy team had the entire map covered and my teammates and I coudn’t get off spawn for two seconds before being splatted again. We were just trapped
If my team spawn camps I usually hang around mid to find the stragglers who get past them. Cause like damn they got it skill wise and I’m a hydra so like…. I’ll just obliterate the side routes
My wish would be for all the Turf Maps to have some section of their spawn 100% inaccesible for enemy players.
Most of the people who run into spawn camping problems are the casual crowd playing turf. You don't have the coordination or experience to easily pull out of that situation. What those people need is breathing room than gives them the incentive to calm down, get their bearings and assess the situation. Part of being a Level Designer is teaching mechanics to players subconsciously through map design, and in this instance I feel the current maps fail at this. Giving players in turf a safe area would go a long way to giving them the time to actually think, and thus learn.
I know you can technically stay in the spawning machine forever, but there's several problems with it. For one, it's not at all clear you can do this. Second, the crowd that gets most impacted by spawn camping just want to enter battle again. In the spawning machine you can't move, jump, do any sort of commands; you're trapped and it's the human instinct to get out. Give that same player a safe area where they're in full control of their character and it's more likely they'll stop for a second (though far from guaranteed). In a way I prefer the spawn system from Splatoon 1 and 2 for this reason (even if you're camped you can at least have control inside your safe bubble) though that approach has other problems.
My hot take is spawncamping isnt a problem in any game, you're the one at an advantage with full health and your entire team.If you're not breaking out of it, you need to figure out why and adapt. (yes, map design contributes heavily to this.. like how the spawn door might be a choke that the campers have better mobility and sightlines (2fort tf2 for example) but splatoon in particular literally gives the "camped" players the high ground. You are at an advantage.)
Splatoon does have super jumping which isn't present in other games and does make it harder to push back a strong push/spawn camping close to your spawn. Sniping the super jump spots may not be possible to the disadvantaged team because of their comp or inability to respond to the more coordinated enemy team.
Well, yes and no. Splatoon 3 doesn't really incentivize spawn camping, but it very much has maps where locking opponents in their base is very strong because defenders can control all access points to leave it easily from advantageous terrain. Eeltail Alley, Hammerhead Bridge, and Scorch Gorge (if they can actually get inside your base) all give players ideal ways to lock you inside your base. Sturgeon Shipyard isn't the worst, but retaking your court is pretty hard. Brinewater Springs is the closest thing to encouraging actual spawn camping, simply because the map is so small that not pushing into the enemy base means letting them freely contest mid.
Spawn camping is also a very strong defender strat in tricolor, for what that's worth. Tons of attacker teams will just be two short-range shooters, and you can just camp their drop out of spawn with something like Wiper or Dualie Squelchers that they simply can't contest, to prevent them from ever getting specials or getting near the signal. This was ridiculously strong on the Mincemeat tricolor map that offered no cover at all for attackers as they leave their base.
uh ok 😶another hot take video
cool though! i was just thinking about this yesterday. the biggest thing for me is: if i'm winning a turf war match, but then purposefully throw because "spawn camping bad", that's going to let down my team.
when defending in tricolor this weekend, i went way into the enemies' base. the way i played could be seen as "spawn camping", but it wasn't even a foolproof strategy-people could slip through, and that's risky because then they can reach the ultra signal. half of the reason it worked so well is because people would see me in their base, think "wait, that's illegal" and run _straight_ _toward_ my line of fire.
i think prochara said this in his spawn camping video, but: the bigger problem is matchmaking rather than a skill issue. if the teams are evenly matched, _that's_ when the advice you gave best fits. play more safely, paint for special, etc.
it's good advice to learn from regardless, but sometimes it won't alleviate the frustration if the other team is several ranks above you. or, if you get put into a team with like three backlines
Woahhh I made a cameo in this vid xD I'm M3ll0W the bamboo player in the first 10 seconds xD
The Vanilla Undercover Brella for both Splat2 and 3 is the best spawn camping weapon in all of video gaming history, change my mind.
Spawn camping in turf war is the number one thing that causes me to rage quit
It's not spawn camping that's the problem.
The problem here is *you entirely.*
@@jimmynonvak6006Nah. Some of these maps are such utter shit that at a certain point there’s nothing you, as an individual player can do.
Take Hammerhead Bridge for example. Most of the time if your team loses the first fight in mid, it’s GG. Without a good team, there’s nothing that you alone can do to stop the enemy push to your base. Since the map is a straight line, at a certain point you’re basically stuck in a corner. There’s a flank to the side, but it’s very easy to have a player just watch that point and splat anyone that tries to pass. Eventually you can get pushed so far that you can’t even get to the flank. The last thing I would tell someone in this situation is that it’s entirely their fault.
Good video but you forgot a big part of it. ESPECIALLY especially in Turf, teams are much less coordinated than in ranked, which makes it far too easy to get tilted.
I'm not a competitive player, just don't have the time for it, so I mostly just do solo q X Rank games and S+etc series, and I agree that spawn camping doesn't really work. Eventually either team can push the other team back enough to contest mid/the objective, but if done well it's a good way to waste the other team's time and resources away from the objective, especially for Zones. (Aka no numbers disadvantage) Of course, if the attacking team gets too greedy, it's common that they go down 2 or 3 and then the other team can easily push back and take the objective. I've been on both sides of that equation haha.
Now, this is in ranked. In Turf, I have experienced very effective camping.. mostly when my team is particularly uncoordinated, and do exactly what you said they shouldn't. They see the map and try to slip past the campers to desperately Turf the stage, only for an enemy to break off and splat them. Over and over. Effective spawn camping doesn't happen often but it does happen, unlike ranked where it virtually never happens. And like you said, some maps are worse than others.
In the splatfest last weekend(the only time I really play Turf), Manta Maria was the worst of the maps. I had two games where the enemy managed to make it onto the high grates right in front of spawn, a charger and a heavy splattling respectively, and the teams just could NOT deal with it.
In hindsight I could have probably done a better job, but I made the mistake of getting tilted and trying to splat the long range camper by myself with Splat dualies instead of doing something more logical... Like trying to farm for crab and going in with another teammate. Which I'm sure they would have done once they saw a teammate trying to crab out the campers. And the worst part was, I did manage to splat the campers, but ended up trading both times.. so basically they would just super jump back to the same spot because we had not dealt with the rest of their team still camping on the ledges behind the mast. 😅
My 2 cents
Spawn camping in turf is usually a problem for me when I'm trying new weapons out, and the opponents are better than me.
I finally have a video to send to a couple friends detailing why spawn camping isn't really a major issue, lmao. You'll get pinned in this game a lot, sure, especially when new, but that is part of the fun.
I won't worry abt spawn camping when Nintendo will add flanks to EVERY splatoon 3 map
My X Power in Splat Zones is 1700-something and I see spawn camping literally all the time, I almost feel Splat Zones as a mode itself almost encourages it in a way
that’s just my experience
I play an okay amount of turf war and a tip for spawn campers. Don't do it until the last minute of the game. Your taking away paint to build up specials and giving your opponent paint to build up theirs, so their more likely to break through early than late when they have time. Do it when its time to finish them off not early in the game, because unless your a good two ticks better than your opponent your just giving them chances and they will probably break out at some point. Treat the enemy base as a finisher and don't paint it early, as long as you have your own base and mid you'll win anyways.
The only time spawn camping was actually an issue was ONCE in casual turf war. An asshole on Inkblot got up to the top part of the map and kept killing our team as soon as we spawned in. Basically, it was keeping our team from being able to even play the game with no way of countering. That’s the only time I would consider spawn camping an issue, because it actively made the game unfun for everyone, including the opposing team who all basically stopped playing halfway through.
I had one match during the splatfest where they locked us down hard but we just failed to gain back any momentum and were uncoordinated. But that was it. Even on other matches where we got pushed to spawn we were able to either reset to neutral or even overtake and win.
I think a benefit also is that Splatoon 3 got rid of some arbitrary respawn times that Splat2n and 1 had. As soon as you get splatted, you can already have respawned instantly. And if you traded, that's even better bc at the very least, there's one less player waiting for you to land so they can splat you.
I said this as a reply, but I'll say it here, too: If you're getting spawn camped, listen to this video. I'm sure you've tried it, but others need to realize that going head first into a better positioned team splatting you in your base is just gonna get you splatted. Find another route without getting spotted to the best of your ability to go and flank them. I can't tell you how many times I've saved my own team because I snuck around the pushing players and inked up turf behind them while they were focused on trying to camp us. I'm sure many of you have done the same.
0:27 10/10 wall placement
idk about this one Gem.
Spawn camping in Turf war really does suck because there is not much skillbased matchmaking, and especially so in soloq. It makes you feel like total garbage and you can't properly play the game, god forbid you're using a weapon you've never tried in PvP before. Literally, I absolutely hate trying new weapon types in this game. It is wholly incentivizing. You shouldn't have to be using your good weapon and be carrying your team to break out of a spawn camp. One player spawncamping is okay and easily overcome, but it is almost always 2 or more of them doing it.
Splatoon 3's respawn system helps avoid spawn camping more than s1 and s2, as well, since you aren't necessarily going to respawn in the same exact position.
this wouldn't have come up if Tricolor Mako didn't have a small block where ppl could get into attacker spawn
I was getting Spawncamped so hard during Tricolor the other day. I didn’t have enough range to deal with the Splash 😭
Fixing spawncamping would actually be very easy; just make it so that spawn areas have a barrier which instantly splats the enemy team, and turf war matches are instead won by controlling mid. This way, the losing team has a chance to push again. Plus, each spawn area takes up 25% of the map, so that’s where the barriers are placed
This is similar to what Fortnite pro 100 creative does
These barriers don’t apply to ranked though; only for turf war
In my opinion, spawn camping is ONLY acceptable in tower control and rainmaker. If you are playing turf war or splat zones, you should never, and I mean NEVER, spawn camp. (Idk about clam blitz because I don’t know how to play clam blitz)
I assumed this vid would be about camping super jump spots but it makes sense that spawn camping refers to spawn
I completely agree with the idea that breaking a spawn camp is primarily about your mentality. Not once have I had a situation where playing it safe and using high ground to your advantage doesn't yield favorable results. Conversely, if I panic or a teammate panics, it leads to making bad plays or trickling into the enemy team to get killed one by one.
I play TF2 a lot and spawncamping in that game can sometimes be far worse because maps are poorly designed. And even then, spawncamping isn't something that I think needs to be banned or that is "immoral" to do. Even that game has methods to break a spawncamp, and Splatoon does it infinitely better, so I don't think there is any excuse to complain about it.
Sometimes I just want to play turf war casually for fun. I wanna try out different weapons other than JUST the ones i'm good at. I wanna shut my brain off and play Splatoon and have a good time. I queue up turf war, play a match, and get spawn camped. The game instantly loses its ability to be fun. I don't even blame the other team for spawn camping, because the maps ENCOURAGE it. It was an issue in previous games, but Splatoon 3 maps have not addressed the issue. In fact, they made it worse by forcing player interactions through narrower map designs (that also favor chargers... And getting sniped after just coming out of spawn really doesn't feel too good when it happens dozens of time in a match.)
I get that there are ways to break out of it, but sometimes given our team's comp and also horrendous matchmaking, it's just not possible. And that's frustrating to me.
It's honestly to the point where I don't even feel like playing PvP anymore and mostly play Salmon Run.
i just noticed that the tenta brella is a literal tent😐
These tips seem nice but I have trouble putting them into practice against players that are just better than me, and snipe me before I even get out of spawn, regardless of mode. Again, just, awful awful matchmaking, in a game that makes zero effort to teach the player about anything.
4:26 average turf war game
5:05 So like... what's going on here, what's happening?
I think the projectile that would have hit the player hit the wall on the right, so the shot was on target but the part of it that was supposed to make contact was gone
The main issue I feel that casuals struggle with is how Splatoon by nature is a Team Based Shooter. By that I mean they don't exactly try to make use of callouts, like ever. I know this game is pretty bad with their callouts but so many times when I get splatted I press Ouch in order for someone to notice "Hey my teammate is down, maybe theres an enemy nearby" but don't notice and then everyone is Splatted by the single enemy by the time I respawn, even when nobody is approaching our turf this occurs.
I agree that spawncamping isn't a problem for the most part, losing to a team that's better than you is a part of the game. However, I think that when a team that is far more skilled than the other purposefully ignores the objective in order to rack up a high KA to, idk, post on twitter or something? then that crosses a line. I came across a div 3 team in open that gets an early lead with the rainmaker and then lets it reset instead of KOing and spawncamping for the rest of the game against whoever they are fighting in open. I have no problem losing to stronger players (although I think the fact that open, the least competitive way to play the ranked modes, can put you against full competitive teams with callouts is bad game design, but that's a seperate issue) but in those cases, I usually get KOd very quickly, and can reflect on what I did wrong. When teams are ignoring the objective for kills, I'd say that is cruel to players who are looking to truly play and improve and now are forced to die repeatedly without the opportunity to do much about it, other than admit they are mechanically inferior. This is also bad for the competitive scene as newer players will see competitive players going into matches with the express purpose of spawncamping instead of playing the objective and that will reflect a bad image of the scene as a whole.
Hey dude I don’t think you understand that casuals don’t have time to improve because most of us have better things to do in life, and you’re here saying “lol just adapt to spawn camping.” You need to know that casuals in general, only play the game once in while and just want to relax after a day of school or work, only to be spawncamped by 4 Japanese sweats who pretend to be sick just to tryhard on others. Most of us here are trying to get good grades, work on our goals, and overall just improve our lives. We can’t just “adapt” like that. Can’t believe you’re just bullying them 😒
I see what he’s saying, but I feel this in my soul. It isn’t fun to jump into a game after work and get pushed back into spawn so far that you can’t even get to mid without being splatted by some coked out competitive player. I have a full time job, I don’t have time to spend hours a day mastering the game.
Pretty sure almost only new players think spawncamping is unfair, you naturally have an advantage when you spawn against those in front of you, in rainmaker and tower control it's always the hardest part when pushing through the enemy spawn for the objective as they will always have high ground and armor frames when respawning, people usually make come backs after being wipedout when the pushing team isn't able to score KO fast enough they take back the objective and reset it after wiping the other team out if they play well, if you're getting spawncamped and can't get out of it despite the clear advantage then you shouldn't expect to be able to contest the main objective to begin with, it all comes down to who's the better team even in turf war
this could totally be a video in splatoon
That M3ll0w fellow looks very familiar…
I saw a comment on kivers video “this is what 1200 wins with trizooka looks like”. They replied to someone saying “yeah if a frontline weapon can be played as backline thats what makes them meta” what’s your take?
Solution: Make maps that are less linear, and restrict the more linear ones to Ranked.
While this is only an issue that casual players have, *casual players are the SUBSTANTIAL MAJORITY of the player base.*
Conversely, remember that opponents *cannot* get onto your spawn platform.
My teammate complaining about spawn camping when he walked into a 1v4 instead of charging their special while we respawn.
Spawncamping is something that'll happen in any game. It's just one of those things you're going to come across in team fights because there's no matchmaking system in the world that will always generate fun/engaging matches. That said, it doesn't make it any less annoying to endure and I understand wanting to at least mention it, especially when something like the recent tricolour matches on makomart gave attackers like one ledge that was only reachable by them. At that point it's hard to argue it's not partially a map design problem, imo.
I cannot say a single time I have been spawn camped in Splatoon 3. Like, yeah enemies have gotten into our base and killed us in our base but definitely haven't experienced spawn camping, aside from maybe if I wanted to exaggerate something thay happened during turf war, near exclusively.
Banning should only happen if a certain thing was not intended in the game that makes you unbeatable for 1 reason or another. Example is melee. Wave dashing is allowed because 1 all players can do it and 2 it’s not the defining factor of the game. In comparison, infinites, which is a grab throw regrab infinite that you can’t escape and causes so damage that the match is unwinable for the other person. There is a a reason infinites are and wavedashing isn’t
WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT Z+F CHARGER'S GEAR LMAO😂
I just realized this is an essay
Its not overpowered or even all that good a strat, but it feels awful when it happens to you especially when you know the start of this sentence because its literally sitting there like "yeah this team is SO much better than you they are using a sub optimal strategy and you can't seem to do anything about it cus u suck"
me spawn camping one of the attacking teams in mako mart during tricolor 3x in a row without dying:
keep an eye out for beacons placed in spawn
I can hear the casuals already
took the words out of our mouths 😭
Blame the terrible map design.
Spawncaming isn’t a problem in COMPETITIVE Splatoon. It absolutely is a problem in turf war though. That whole mode is just “Who gets spawncamed first loses”. Even certain ranked modes have that issues namely splat zones. Competitive doesn’t have this issue but it is demoralizing in S rank.
Yet another reason why turf war isn’t a good game mode
It definitely isn't as painful in Splatoon 3 as it was in Splatoon 2
Splatoon 3 in particular really favors spawning players over camping players in a way that previous titles didn't. In Splatoon and 2, you were only safe in the impenetrable bubble of the spawn platform. Step outside and you're in danger again. In 3, you spawn with armor and pick where you land. While you're not invincible, you do have some breathing room for assessing the situation and making smart decisions.
I personally think casual players play to have fun and spawn camping isn't fun does casuals hate it it isn't about fair or skill let me give a example bowling you can bowl normally or with the two sides being blocked off it comes down what you want if you just wanna throw pins over and not care to much about score than having no gutter is great but if you do care about scores maybe not there may be solutions to spawn camping but that no fun so they don't do it here the thing I am not talking down on casuals if anything it's great that they can in joy the game without thinking to much about what they are doing
I don’t play to spawn camp… it happens when it happens.
that thumbnail tho
didn't you talk about spawncamping in a video before
I don't think people are referring to 'Spawn Camping' per se, they're referring to Spawn *Lockouts*
Lockouts are much, much more problematic - which is again due to the map design, in which most competitive players agree that the maps are garbage.
It's a legitimate strategy... but not a very useful one.
Wait, people complain about spawncamping because they think its effective? I always thought people just complained because they felt like players were leveraging their skill gap to bully them all the way back into spawn.
Heading far too much into the opposing spawn is a bad idea, imo.
I'm going to preface this rant by saying I am a purely casual player, with little interest in super competitive gaming in general. I've been saying for years to the dismay of many of my friends who strongly disagree: "spawncamping is unfair" always always always translates to this: "I am bad at the game and want to make my own fun the responsibility of my opponents".
Is being spawncamped fun? No, of course not. But it is YOUR/YOUR TEAM'S responsibility to devise a plan to push the enemies away from your spawn and make it out onto the field. If you cannot, then the superior team and players have clearly been identified and you need to suck it up and deal with it. Complaining about spawncamping is asking your opponent(s) to throw the game so that you can waddle on in. And let me be clear, If you are being spawncamped at...well, your spawn, you NEVER had a shot of pushing the objective. Why? Because if the opponent is oppressing you that hard and you aren't able to offer necessary resistance, no matter where you are on the map the outcome would be the same, and it's foolish to make arguments otherwise. The skill difference is plain as day.
Look at Payload-style gamemodes in other shooter games like TF2 or Overwatch. The payload almost always starts right outside the attacking team's spawn. The defending team wants to prevent the attacking team from pushing the payload. Therefore the defending team needs to set up their defenses and strategy right outside attacking team's spawn. You could say, then, that these gamemodes encourage or mandate spawncamping. If spawncamping was as "unfair" as a lot of players claim it as being, would this not give the defending team a free win or at the very least a massive advantage? But does it really? No, most good teams and even some mediocre teams can still push out of spawn, force the enemy team back, and begin to push the payload to get a foothold in the game and that momentum can be enough to make the game nice and even.
I will concede however that Splatoon arguably has it worse, as in other games you can change your loadout/class/character on the fly to adapt to the situation presented to you. If you play a short range weapon and you're being spawncamped by a charger or long-range shooter, or if you play a weapon that needs 2-4 shots to kill and you're being camped by a 1-shot blaster or slosher, sure it can be a bit harder to deal with in a "weapon matchup" sense, but you just need to communicate to your team, or identify the threat and stealth around to counter the spawncamping strategy. Counterplay exists, and like I said at the start, complaining about it is fruitless. If you are on red team being spawncamped by blue team, then it is red team's responsibility to push out and play the game, it is certainly not blue team's job to let red team win. Please, stop acting in contrary.
I agree. Each time I feel like the opposing team is camping (which is SO often when people are scared of Chargers), I spam "This way!" after finding an opening. Often times, the pushing team will stay in one spot to splat players who are going in one direction to leave, which is just easy splats for the other team.
Not to brag, bc I'm sure other people have this experience, too, but whenever I find an opening away from the spawncampers/pushing team, and say "This way!", others follow and splatted them back, which has lead to us winning in the last 30 seconds.
While I do think there are still improvements to be made to prevent spawncamping, it's better than the days of Splatoon 1 where someone could be hiding, watching you walk out of your spawn bubble, and instantly splat you. There are ways to maneuver in Splatoon 3, at least, that can stop ppl from wiping out your team every 5 seconds.
@@ADreamCalledEternity THANK YOU. I see a lot of other comments being like "But in Solo Queue" and like, yeah, the lack of in-came comms can make some coordination hard. But spamming "Ouch!" when the camper splats you or "This Way!" when you've got a way around or managed to finally push the camper back can be enough to bring attention to the issue and get your team to focus the camper(s) or get morale back up once the situation is cleared.
I'll confess I havn't ever had a major "I got spawncamped" moment in this game, I think enough maps are well enough designed (er-, In this specific context-)with the unreachable high ground spawn zones to make it significantly harder to do without some slosher spam or a really good charger, but especially based on team comps where all you need is a good bit of pressure, or a single player to push to the objective or harass the camper to make them look away, and the problem is resolved.
Maybe my initial comment can come off as harsh because no one wants to be told "you suck and if you lose you lose suck it up", but with a surprising amount of counterplay even as a single player, and once people adopt the mindset of "It is my responsibility to earn the victory in this situation, not my opponent's responsibility to back off and hand it to me", Spawncamping in this game and most others REALLY isn't a problem
I suspect you're missing the wood for the trees on this one. Though you're absolutely right that it shouldn't be banned, and that it isn't an issue in competitive. My concern about spawn camping isn't with top level play, or even my experiences. More 'OK, how does this make the game look and/or feel for Timmy and Tammy who got the game on their 8th birthdays and are playing for the first time now' - The players who if the game makes a good first impression on might wind up playing Splatoon 6 competitively in 10 years time or whatever. And, yeah. Nothing we can actually do to control that. But it is why I'm concerned about the map design of S3, more than I'm concerned about it for top level play. Or even my level of play where I'm not a competitive player of any time, but... At some point I have to start admitting I might not be as awful as I think I am by default.
Spawn camping isn't a problem at top level play, sure. But Splatoon isn't just a grassroots eSport. And, yeah, you offer counterplay to it. Someone who's just gotten Splatoon, the sort of players who if put into that position, spawn camping impacts most, isn't watching this sort of video. People who have already fallen in love with the game and want to get better at it are.
(This is an issue with the map design rather than the way people choose to play the game, some of the maps basically lead you into spawn camping in Turf War, and most of the maps only have one route out of spawn. And, honestly, some of the fixes I want for newer players generally - larger spawns, more 'redundant' routes out of spawn, even if they don't bypass mid making them more questionable as flanks, just options that let them feel like their contributing even if they're doing very little in real terms before they've reached level 4 and have access to Splatoon's best mode while getting them used to the controls they've been practicing in single player and only getting into fights on their terms rather than being forced into them earlier than they might be comfortable with due to the way the map's designed.)
(I view respawn punisher in a similar way, honestly. I don't dislike it because it's bad for competitive, or unbalanced, or whatever, I dislike it because it keeps people from playing the game for longer, which... At competitive is a colossal shrug. For newer players who haven't yet gotten into Splatoon, that's a problem)
Personally, I don’t think newer players should or even wants to be babied. Given the raise of mercilessly hard games like Dark Souls and Elden Ring and how popular COD is that also has a hardcore scene, casuals for the most part don’t seem to mind getting their teeth kicked in. It almost always the online community who complains about camping or the ‘little Timmies’ drying to Chargers.