I'm lucky to be starting my type rating on the ATR 72-600 in just a few weeks. I previously flew the Dash 8-400 and was spoiled with all that power. But now, I am really quite impressed with how SMART the ATR design is. It really is the benchmark for efficiency and highly-optimized engineering!
I am engineer and traveld by boing or Airbus airoplane. Recently we have small airport in our city. I will travel by ATR plane in next month by Indigo in india. I was just chacking details of Airplane and I could see your clips on RUclips. I inspired by your detail explantion about your Airplane Iam grateful to you for your efforts to explain in details With best wishes and will aagin write after my travel Prakash Jokhe Kolhapur Maharashtra india
Wonderful explanation! Your video is very helpful to those who wish to take the type rating on ATR. It is helpful even before they start their training
@@ricardombanve6629 Magnar makes very good presentations to would advise you if you are flying ATR to follow him and inform others about his good work!
Malaysia operate few ATR72-600 and may i know is the wheel electric motorised. I remember the ATR moving itself to the runway quite a distance away. Upon reaching runway, the pilot start the engine and props start spinning. I look around the windows and i did not see any tow truck around. I was suspicious as it might be electric motorised that move us there. Nevertheless its a good idea as it will reduce noise at the terminal building.
Amazing videos. Perfect to watch as an evening lecture and illustrated very well. As a hobby sim pilot and ex glider, I couldn't resist getting the newly released Hans ATR46/76 addon for MSFS. Do you have it too? If so, what are the shortcomings and inconsistencies with real-life behavior of the systems you have noticed? I watched some of your systems videos and tried around in the cockpit for a few hours. So far, there are surprisingly few things that seem modeled far off.
Thanks. Currently, I'm on vacation, but will make some videos when I return to base in a few days. Some flight simmers have already posted detailed reviews of the ATR, and I have noticed a few cosmetic errors, for example when selecting external power from the EFB, you get both DC and AC external power. In real life, we only use DC external power. The dry operating weight is also on the optimistic side. But all in all, the model appears to be very close to the real thing.
@@FlywithMagnar Oh nice, looking forward to the videos then. Just did a first flight and some things I noticed: 1. The warning lights for the pitot/static/... heaters seem to be a bit off what I would expect with limited AC power on the ground. 2. The cabin and duct temperature are doing some wild stuff. Went up to over 110°C on one occasion just sitting in a turnaround state at the apron. 3. The hydraulic logic seems displayed correctly. However, with crossfeed on, the systems of the indirectly powered line partially don't work. I was shutting down the left engine during taxi and hence activated the crossfeed to preseve blue pressure (although the standby DC pump also kicked in). Despite this, I immediatly lost all normal and emergency braking. I may have done something wrong though. Also, it has the "standard" MSFS altitude bug of an "invisible" altimeter being used for altitude data for the autopliot. This one automatically switches from local QNH to STD and back at 18.000ft/FL180 respectively and there is no way to interact with it. So especially flying in Europe it will cause the aircraft to hold wrong levels at any flight level below FL180. The PMDG DC6B also has this issue. There is an easy workaround though by changing the reference altimeter to a "visible" one in the cockpit, it's a one-digit edit. Sadly, as the ATR is a marketplace addon, the file structure is different and I was not able to locate the line of code yet as "systems.cfg" does not exist. I might try creating a file with the name and manually adding it to see if it works tomorrow. Anyhow, enjoy your vacation and the aircraft when you're back. Certainly less flaws than I expected. :)
Thanks Magnar, the last thing you mentioned regarding the aux hyd pump is a bit amusing. It says in the QRH that it is available (if available actaully), but the FCOM states (ground control only incl. the text on the pedestal) which is contradicting. Today I looked in the QRH for an AT43 which I flew today and the QRH said the same as the QRH in your video but the FCOM states that the aux hyd pump operates via DC bus 2 or ground handling bus. And ground handling bus is as the name implies only powered on ground. With that said, I have found many things not correct with the fcom for the older variants, especially as the fcom’s are updated. I asked the mech to look in his manual, hopefully his manual is more accurate and we can find out if this old AT43 has this mod or not and then determine if the QRH or the FCOM is correct, if any;) When we do find something wrong, of course we contact ATR and they usually respond rather quickly which is good. Another item which I have seen incorrect in a couple of FCOM/QRH (read FCOM says one thing and QRH another) AT43 is where the CAPT ASI/VSI/ALT receives its power from. Does anyone else have other examples of when FCOM and QRH does not agree? Thanks again for all your videos Magnar
@@iamra_n3189 I am sure there is but I have not spotted any obvious. It seems like they are more prone to be found in the older AT43 and AT72 where there have been mods which have been ”lost” or lack of mods which perhaps one of the books have included;) Good luck with your typerating. Perhaps I will meet you in TLS, I am going there next week;)
There is a procedure in 600 series on preflight cockpit, to push the aux. hyd pump before the walk-around check. In my point of view, this procedure will obscure our ability to see the remaining accumulator pressure in the system. With that pump on we’ll se 3000psi available in the system, which in reality could be far less than that.
The external pressure indicator shows the pressure in the parking brake accumulator. Activating the auxiliary pump charges the parking brake accumulator to 3,000 psi. When the auxiliary pump (or the main pump) is not running, the pressure in the system is zero. This can be observed on the hydraulic system page on the MFD.
@@FlywithMagnar yes sir. But don’t we require the 3000psi to be available in accumulator in order to have 6 applications of emergency brake? if the preflight include the aux pump ON, then we can’t really sure how much the accum. press. left. Another question is, does the 1600psi minimum accumulator pressure as stated in fcom, enough for the event of emergency use?
The brake accumulator is charged every time the main blue hydraulic pump or the auxiliary pump is running. The minimum 1,600 PSI is to ensure that the parking brake is safe to use. So, when we see the pressure is less, we activate the auxiliary pump.
I saw a documentary anout ATR72 assembly line and i saw that the wing elevators are string cable control. From the wings right up to the cockpit. Is it true it is string cable control?
Hello Captain!! Your videos are very good for people that prepare for the type rating.Quick question: if we have both green and blue system inop and we use the aux pump can we crossfeed to have access to the main landing gear and normal brake? Thank you very much for the great things that you do.Have a good one.
No, hydraulic crossfeed is not allowed when both main pumps are inoperative. The reason is to protect the blue system from losing fluid in the green circuit (in case of an unknown damage.)
Hi Magnar, thank u for your explanation, I have a question : What is the pressure (psi) in the green/blue accumulators ? normal conditions both engine running. I saw in some sources 1500psi and in other ones 3000 psi. Thank u
Very excellent explanations sir.. i have one doubt regarding flight controls...if i move primary flight controls (Aileron,Elevator and Rudder) is there any indication in cockpit, how wil i know how much degree control surfaces moved...Please give some clarity...
Hello Capitan!!! Very good explanation about the system, but I have a question... When we have the main Hyd Pumps Loss and it is not associated with a Lo LVL in any system, why can´t we use the Hyd X-Feed, since the AUX Pump will work when we put the LDG lerver down?
Murphy's law. If you select hydraulic crossfeed, and there's a hidden leak, you might lose everything. The green system isn't that important. The landing gear has manual extension, and the brakes have a backup as well. The blue system is much more important.
Hello Captain Nordal. Again a great video ! Thank you !!! I was wondering if there is a way to get the latest FCOM somewhere ? The sole edition i can find is so old and outdated... Thank you again🙏
I'm not a pilot but I have an huge passion for the air fly simulation. I appreciate very much topur tutorial. Could you give me some suggestions where I can find Flight Crew Operations Manual of ATR 600. I made several research om the web but I got nothing similar. Thnak so much for your help
Magnar, we know that the ATR that unfortunately crashed in Brazil and 11km from my house, faced temperatures of -40 degrees Celsius. My question: can the aircraft's radar detect and alert the pilots of this situation?
A weather radar is dexigned to detect water drops. Minus 40 degrees Celsius sounds very cold for 17,000 feet. However, the aircraft is certified for operation at temperatures down minus 54 degrees Celsius. At that temperauture, where will be virtually no icing.
Nice to meet you. I am training for ATR TR. Your video is very helpful to me. I have a question. In the situation of "EEC 2 Fault" and "PEC 2 Fault", why do you turn "HYD CROSSFEED" to not "ON"? If you do this procedure, you can definitely avoid "loss of HYD green (NORMAL BRAKE)". I think that there is a possibility of temporary "loss of HYD green (NORMAL BRAKE)" during landing roll with the current procedure. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for your nice feedback. The reason why we don't put on hydraulic crossfeed is that the remaining ACW generator will power both ACW buses via the BTC.
@@FlywithMagnar Thank you for your quick reply. Dose the ACW 2 Generator be not powered via the BTC if the hydraulic crossfeed is on? In the situation of "EEC 2 Fault" and "PEC 2 Fault", "HYD CROSSFEED" to "ON" is it a prohibited act?
In case of EEC2 or PEC2 fault, ACW GEN 2 will lose power during landing. The ACW BTC will then close, allowing for ACW GEN1 to power both ACW buses. The buses power the main hydraulic pumps. Unsing HYD crossfeed will have no effect, as both pumps are already powered.
Great presentation as usual! One question about the OVHT light and its implications: in the 737ng the pumps which are lubricated by the fluid circulated through them; the temperature of the fluid and thus its viscosity is controlled by removing hot fluid from the casing via a case drain line and routing it on its way back to the reservoir, through a heat exchanger located in the onside main fuel tank that uses fuel as cooling medium. Should the temperature in the casing of the EMP Electrical Motor Pump and/or along its case drain line exceed a preset value, the OVHT light will illuminate and the pump will be automatically de-energized - this holds true for the vickers pumps -. Now as far as the ATR is concerned, how do u cool the pump off? And does the pump is de-energized off in case of an overheat? And if so provided that all the other conditions are met, will the aux pump automatics come on? Thanks for sharing
When the OVHT light illuminates, the pump continues to run and must be shut off by the crew. There's no cooling in the hydraulic system, but the temperature will decrease when the pump is switched OFF. When a hydraulic pump is OFF, crossfeeed is used to supply the affected system. Please don't compare aircraft manufacturers; they have different philosophies.
It is impossible to activate the propeller brake in flight. The wheels must be on the ground (weight on wheels), and the gust lock must be engaged (which means the power levers must be in ground idle position.)
A question regarding the aux hyd pump: does it displace less volume per second than the 'normal' pumps? If yes, do you notice a longer travel time for the flaps?
Yes, the pump is smaller. In the simulator, we notice a drop in hydraulic pressure when the flaps is moving. So, the flaps might need a little more time to move.
I'm rather surprised that there's no redundancy for flap operation in the case of a blue system leak. Reaching a suitable runway for a high-speed landing might not be so easy.
The landing distance at maximum landing weight without flaps is 1,400 meters on a dry runway in zero wind. There are many airports with longer runways.
Hi, one additional question: considering that the ACMP is powered by the ACW generator which in turn is only available when the Np is greater than 70.8%, if u loose the left engine or when u shut it down upon arrival, will the auxiliary pump kick in automatically as the other engine is still running and the gear is selected down and the pressure in the blue system drops below 1500psi and what kind of indication will u have on the push bottom - both OFF and FAIL? Thanks
I'm lucky to be starting my type rating on the ATR 72-600 in just a few weeks. I previously flew the Dash 8-400 and was spoiled with all that power. But now, I am really quite impressed with how SMART the ATR design is. It really is the benchmark for efficiency and highly-optimized engineering!
I am engineer and traveld by boing or Airbus airoplane.
Recently we have small airport in our city. I will travel by ATR plane in next
month by Indigo in india.
I was just chacking details of Airplane and I could see your clips on RUclips. I inspired by your detail explantion about your Airplane
Iam grateful to you for your efforts
to explain in details
With best wishes and will aagin
write after my travel
Prakash Jokhe
Kolhapur Maharashtra india
You Rock captain Magnar...
Wonderful explanation! Your video is very helpful to those who wish to take the type rating on ATR. It is helpful even before they start their training
Thank you!
Great videos aren't they. you may also like www.atrquestionbank.com
Terimakasih Bapak Captain 👍👍👍👍
Nice presentation and by very much help ful for me, best wishes ❤️ and shall wait for more.
Dear Capt, Very nicely covered..
Fantastic presentation! Always a pleasure to see your good work Commander. Keep it up!
HI, cpt Kunda. Long time my old friend and mentor. its ricardo, from ceiba. eq guinea ..
@@ricardombanve6629 Hello my brother good to ser you and congratulations on your Captaincy!
@@ricardombanve6629 Magnar makes very good presentations to would advise you if you are flying ATR to follow him and inform others about his good work!
*I would advise...
Very interesting presentation. Thank you.
Malaysia operate few ATR72-600 and may i know is the wheel electric motorised. I remember the ATR moving itself to the runway quite a distance away. Upon reaching runway, the pilot start the engine and props start spinning. I look around the windows and i did not see any tow truck around. I was suspicious as it might be electric motorised that move us there. Nevertheless its a good idea as it will reduce noise at the terminal building.
Very good explanation for the HYD systems Capt.
Dear captain thank you very much for this great video. Makes bug difference for.my upcoming atr type rating
Magnificent videos you make. Thank you.
explained to perfection.
Amazing videos. Perfect to watch as an evening lecture and illustrated very well.
As a hobby sim pilot and ex glider, I couldn't resist getting the newly released Hans ATR46/76 addon for MSFS. Do you have it too? If so, what are the shortcomings and inconsistencies with real-life behavior of the systems you have noticed? I watched some of your systems videos and tried around in the cockpit for a few hours. So far, there are surprisingly few things that seem modeled far off.
Thanks. Currently, I'm on vacation, but will make some videos when I return to base in a few days. Some flight simmers have already posted detailed reviews of the ATR, and I have noticed a few cosmetic errors, for example when selecting external power from the EFB, you get both DC and AC external power. In real life, we only use DC external power. The dry operating weight is also on the optimistic side. But all in all, the model appears to be very close to the real thing.
@@FlywithMagnar
Oh nice, looking forward to the videos then. Just did a first flight and some things I noticed:
1. The warning lights for the pitot/static/... heaters seem to be a bit off what I would expect with limited AC power on the ground.
2. The cabin and duct temperature are doing some wild stuff. Went up to over 110°C on one occasion just sitting in a turnaround state at the apron.
3. The hydraulic logic seems displayed correctly. However, with crossfeed on, the systems of the indirectly powered line partially don't work. I was shutting down the left engine during taxi and hence activated the crossfeed to preseve blue pressure (although the standby DC pump also kicked in). Despite this, I immediatly lost all normal and emergency braking. I may have done something wrong though.
Also, it has the "standard" MSFS altitude bug of an "invisible" altimeter being used for altitude data for the autopliot. This one automatically switches from local QNH to STD and back at 18.000ft/FL180 respectively and there is no way to interact with it. So especially flying in Europe it will cause the aircraft to hold wrong levels at any flight level below FL180. The PMDG DC6B also has this issue. There is an easy workaround though by changing the reference altimeter to a "visible" one in the cockpit, it's a one-digit edit. Sadly, as the ATR is a marketplace addon, the file structure is different and I was not able to locate the line of code yet as "systems.cfg" does not exist. I might try creating a file with the name and manually adding it to see if it works tomorrow.
Anyhow, enjoy your vacation and the aircraft when you're back. Certainly less flaws than I expected. :)
Thanks Magnar, the last thing you mentioned regarding the aux hyd pump is a bit amusing. It says in the QRH that it is available (if available actaully), but the FCOM states (ground control only incl. the text on the pedestal) which is contradicting. Today I looked in the QRH for an AT43 which I flew today and the QRH said the same as the QRH in your video but the FCOM states that the aux hyd pump operates via DC bus 2 or ground handling bus. And ground handling bus is as the name implies only powered on ground. With that said, I have found many things not correct with the fcom for the older variants, especially as the fcom’s are updated. I asked the mech to look in his manual, hopefully his manual is more accurate and we can find out if this old AT43 has this mod or not and then determine if the QRH or the FCOM is correct, if any;) When we do find something wrong, of course we contact ATR and they usually respond rather quickly which is good. Another item which I have seen incorrect in a couple of FCOM/QRH (read FCOM says one thing and QRH another) AT43 is where the CAPT ASI/VSI/ALT receives its power from. Does anyone else have other examples of when FCOM and QRH does not agree? Thanks again for all your videos Magnar
That is VERY interesting indeed! Do you happen to know if the AT76 has any such "glitches" in its books? I'm starting my TR in a few weeks...😃
@@iamra_n3189 I am sure there is but I have not spotted any obvious. It seems like they are more prone to be found in the older AT43 and AT72 where there have been mods which have been ”lost” or lack of mods which perhaps one of the books have included;) Good luck with your typerating. Perhaps I will meet you in TLS, I am going there next week;)
@@LloydAlexander58 thanks for that! Oh nice, you’re off to the factory?
My TR will be done in one or several locations, MAD, VIE or DUB! 😅
Really informative, thank you Magnar.
There is a procedure in 600 series on preflight cockpit, to push the aux. hyd pump before the walk-around check. In my point of view, this procedure will obscure our ability to see the remaining accumulator pressure in the system. With that pump on we’ll se 3000psi available in the system, which in reality could be far less than that.
The external pressure indicator shows the pressure in the parking brake accumulator. Activating the auxiliary pump charges the parking brake accumulator to 3,000 psi. When the auxiliary pump (or the main pump) is not running, the pressure in the system is zero. This can be observed on the hydraulic system page on the MFD.
@@FlywithMagnar yes sir. But don’t we require the 3000psi to be available in accumulator in order to have 6 applications of emergency brake? if the preflight include the aux pump ON, then we can’t really sure how much the accum. press. left. Another question is, does the 1600psi minimum accumulator pressure as stated in fcom, enough for the event of emergency use?
The brake accumulator is charged every time the main blue hydraulic pump or the auxiliary pump is running.
The minimum 1,600 PSI is to ensure that the parking brake is safe to use. So, when we see the pressure is less, we activate the auxiliary pump.
@@FlywithMagnar oh i see, thanks a lot sir.
I saw a documentary anout ATR72 assembly line and i saw that the wing elevators are string cable control. From the wings right up to the cockpit. Is it true it is string cable control?
Hi Aux Pump pedestal switch in atr 72500 énergies for 30" I think ,
&Intensive use could discharge the main battery
Hello Captain!! Your videos are very good for people that prepare for the type rating.Quick question: if we have both green and blue system inop and we use the aux pump can we crossfeed to have access to the main landing gear and normal brake? Thank you very much for the great things that you do.Have a good one.
No, hydraulic crossfeed is not allowed when both main pumps are inoperative. The reason is to protect the blue system from losing fluid in the green circuit (in case of an unknown damage.)
Well explained discussion of the hydraulic system Captain, thank you very much! This was very helpful.
Hi Magnar, thank u for your explanation, I have a question : What is the pressure (psi) in the green/blue accumulators ? normal conditions both engine running. I saw in some sources 1500psi and in other ones 3000 psi.
Thank u
Normal pressure is 3000 PSI. If the pressure is below 1500 PSI, we get a low pressure alert.
Very excellent explanations sir.. i have one doubt regarding flight controls...if i move primary flight controls (Aileron,Elevator and Rudder) is there any indication in cockpit, how wil i know how much degree control surfaces moved...Please give some clarity...
Hello Capitan!!! Very good explanation about the system, but I have a question... When we have the main Hyd Pumps Loss and it is not associated with a Lo LVL in any system, why can´t we use the Hyd X-Feed, since the AUX Pump will work when we put the LDG lerver down?
Murphy's law. If you select hydraulic crossfeed, and there's a hidden leak, you might lose everything. The green system isn't that important. The landing gear has manual extension, and the brakes have a backup as well. The blue system is much more important.
Hello Captain Nordal. Again a great video ! Thank you !!!
I was wondering if there is a way to get the latest FCOM somewhere ?
The sole edition i can find is so old and outdated...
Thank you again🙏
I'm not a pilot but I have an huge passion for the air fly simulation. I appreciate very much topur tutorial. Could you give me some suggestions where I can find Flight Crew Operations Manual of ATR 600. I made several research om the web but I got nothing similar. Thnak so much for your help
Unfortunately, the manuals are not available. They are the property of the manufacturer and airline companies.
Great
Magnar, we know that the ATR that unfortunately crashed in Brazil and 11km from my house, faced temperatures of -40 degrees Celsius. My question: can the aircraft's radar detect and alert the pilots of this situation?
A weather radar is dexigned to detect water drops. Minus 40 degrees Celsius sounds very cold for 17,000 feet. However, the aircraft is certified for operation at temperatures down minus 54 degrees Celsius. At that temperauture, where will be virtually no icing.
Nice to meet you.
I am training for ATR TR.
Your video is very helpful to me.
I have a question.
In the situation of "EEC 2 Fault" and "PEC 2 Fault", why do you turn "HYD CROSSFEED" to not "ON"?
If you do this procedure, you can definitely avoid "loss of HYD green (NORMAL BRAKE)".
I think that there is a possibility of temporary "loss of HYD green (NORMAL BRAKE)" during landing roll with the current procedure.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for your nice feedback. The reason why we don't put on hydraulic crossfeed is that the remaining ACW generator will power both ACW buses via the BTC.
@@FlywithMagnar Thank you for your quick reply.
Dose the ACW 2 Generator be not powered via the BTC if the hydraulic crossfeed is on?
In the situation of "EEC 2 Fault" and "PEC 2 Fault", "HYD CROSSFEED" to "ON" is it a prohibited act?
In case of EEC2 or PEC2 fault, ACW GEN 2 will lose power during landing. The ACW BTC will then close, allowing for ACW GEN1 to power both ACW buses. The buses power the main hydraulic pumps. Unsing HYD crossfeed will have no effect, as both pumps are already powered.
@@FlywithMagnar Thank you for answering.
I want to enjoy learning ATR with your video.
Great presentation as usual! One question about the OVHT light and its implications: in the 737ng the pumps which are lubricated by the fluid circulated through them; the temperature of the fluid and thus its viscosity is controlled by removing hot fluid from the casing via a case drain line and routing it on its way back to the reservoir, through a heat exchanger located in the onside main fuel tank that uses fuel as cooling medium. Should the temperature in the casing of the EMP Electrical Motor Pump and/or along its case drain line exceed a preset value, the OVHT light will illuminate and the pump will be automatically de-energized - this holds true for the vickers pumps -. Now as far as the ATR is concerned, how do u cool the pump off? And does the pump is de-energized off in case of an overheat? And if so provided that all the other conditions are met, will the aux pump automatics come on? Thanks for sharing
When the OVHT light illuminates, the pump continues to run and must be shut off by the crew. There's no cooling in the hydraulic system, but the temperature will decrease when the pump is switched OFF. When a hydraulic pump is OFF, crossfeeed is used to supply the affected system. Please don't compare aircraft manufacturers; they have different philosophies.
Fly with Magnar thanks for the answer, i was wondering how the pumps were cooled as the case drain line were mentioned in both airplanes
In the case of VoePass flight 2283 is it possible crew activated the Auxilliary pump on flight? ie clutched the R propeller in flight?
It is impossible to activate the propeller brake in flight. The wheels must be on the ground (weight on wheels), and the gust lock must be engaged (which means the power levers must be in ground idle position.)
A question regarding the aux hyd pump: does it displace less volume per second than the 'normal' pumps? If yes, do you notice a longer travel time for the flaps?
Yes, the pump is smaller. In the simulator, we notice a drop in hydraulic pressure when the flaps is moving. So, the flaps might need a little more time to move.
@@FlywithMagnar Check, thanks! ✈🙂
I'm rather surprised that there's no redundancy for flap operation in the case of a blue system leak. Reaching a suitable runway for a high-speed landing might not be so easy.
The landing distance at maximum landing weight without flaps is 1,400 meters on a dry runway in zero wind. There are many airports with longer runways.
Hi, one additional question: considering that the ACMP is powered by the ACW generator which in turn is only available when the Np is greater than 70.8%, if u loose the left engine or when u shut it down upon arrival, will the auxiliary pump kick in automatically as the other engine is still running and the gear is selected down and the pressure in the blue system drops below 1500psi and what kind of indication will u have on the push bottom - both OFF and FAIL? Thanks
No, the other ACW generator will power both ACW busbars via the BTC. By the way, what is ACMP?
Fly with Magnar that makes sense! An ACMP is an AC powered Motor Pump, i found the same nomenclature in an NTSB report about a crash involving an ATR
When did we use cross feed bar ?
Hydraulic cross-feed is used when one of the main pumps is inoperative. The other pump will then supply both systems.