@@Edward_Black_Rose_Soundhey Edward! I was wondering if you can build a keyboard for me! (Yes I will pay.) I need this instrument by April and I’m running out of options!
@@SIRSALADKING I'm glad you like this musical instrument, but unfortunately I can't make a stable version at the moment. This is just a prototype that is unstable, but also takes me a long time to make.
If you want to make another, make one with 1 photo cell per key and attach a small semi-mirror on each key so that the laser hits the correct photo cell, but also lets the laser pass through the mirror to the next key. :)
Ooh, that's very cool! I love that it lets you get that electric piano sort of sound with surprisingly minimal electronics and mechanical elements. Nice work.
wow, its amazing how good this sounds! reminds me a lot of the sound of a rhodes through a distortion pedal, which makes sense - the strings look like they're a similar length to the tines of an electric piano, crazy how light and magnetic-based pickups sound so similar
I guess that keys that would give a suitable overtone would vibrate in a synced way and work together. Sounds a bit like a FM synthesizer when you play two keys with suitable frequencies :) Really cool build! Your channel deserves more subscribers :)
@@morbidmanmusic Hmm. I'm not sure. FM is modulation of frequencies, and I wouldn't say that the upper tone is modulating the lower tone, rather adding tones.
I think the concept is very deep, we could do a lot of interesting music with this with the fascinating concept of two strings vibrating to make kinda one sound, testing different temperament would be nuts
It's such an interesting electromechanical instrument. The thing I love about this is how fundamentally it connects the musician to the concept that sound is made of wavelengths. Thus, "harmonious notes" (which means they are part of the same harmonic series) like octaves, fifths, etc., actually sound fantastic together, but other intervals don't sound so good. To me, that's the defining feature of this instrument, even more significant than the laser part (though I agree that using a laser to measure vibration is pretty genius too). Also, some people might call this "harmonics-only" feature "restrictive." They might complain that they want to do other intervals, so normal pianos or synthesizers are just better because they can do those. But I really disagree with that view. I think this instrument, with its restrictions, allows you to think about music in a different way. Thus it provides a unique musical experience, which leads to unique music. It's like how the Japanese shakuhachi really only plays on the pentatonic (5-note) scale, but it's still a beautiful instrument with a unique musical tradition that separates it from other woodwind instruments. As a shakuhachi player, you would think about constructing melodies in a different way than a flute player, who has access to a full 12-notes chromatic scale. It's like how Indian classical music can make use of a tonality system that has more notes than the western 12-tone scale, which makes its instruments and its music unique. Even if Indian music has more notes than western music, we don't say that either one is "better." They're just different. This sort of difference in musical experience is what makes instruments unique and valuable apart from each other, and it leads to unique and valuable musical pieces too.
I don't believe the issue you're having with multiple notes played is due any limitation of the instrument itself per se or any kind of blocking phenomenon but rather the range the instrument is in and it's harmonics limiting the kinds of intervals you can play across its range. Look up a concept called "Lower interval limit". Adam Neely has a good video explaining it in more detal. But essentially, as you go further down in pitch, certain intervals no longer sound harmonious together and can sound muddy. If you constructed a version of this instrument in a higher range, perhaps even just an octave up from where you have it, you might find it easier to get a more harmonious sound for chordal stuff. With that said, it has such a unique voice as a bass instrument, I could see a lot of use for it as is. The fact you've developed something that's pretty streamlined in how it actually works with the wire attached directly to the key, only requiring a single light source and sensor, basically folding it down to one pickup AND it sounds cool is awesome. Great work, dude!
Same keys frequency is always double higher, which is probably why it works. Some other might work as well: there are some videos about overtone harmonies
I'm amazed at this mechanism! Maybe it could be modified for good polyphonic sound by using reflected laser light instead of blocking laser light. The tip of each string is painted reflective, and the laser is located to shine at the tips without overlap. The sensor is located next to the laser, pointed in the same direction. This way, the reflected light from the string tips will be additive. Or maybe a doppler motion sensor could be used. In this case, the sensor would be above or below the strings, detecting motion toward/away from the sensor. They're designed to detect moving humans so maybe the strings would be too tiny to register. But these sensors aren't terribly expensive so it wouldn't cost so much to try.
There are ways to detect the movement of strings other than laser and photocell, such as electromagnetic as in guitars. This is the easiest way to make it polyphonic. I thought about the reflection of the strings, but it is quite weak and spreads in all directions. It can be done with a photocell under each string.
@@Edward_Black_Rose_Sound Maybe the amount of reflected light could be heavily increased by using flat metal strips instead of wires. That way, the laser could be on one side, aimed a bit upward, and the sensor could be on the opposite side, so the reflected light mostly goes toward the sensor. A bit of cardstock in the middle prevents laser light from going directly to the sensor. But it seems fiddly anyway, compared to separate sensors.
I don't know how your electronic audio circuit looks like, but since you have 40 keys, perhaps you could install 40 photocells (instead of just the one) & position each cell adjacent to each wire "tine" but also putting thin wood walls inbetween each one so that they don't interfere with each other. Or use mirrors if placement is too tight. With 40 photocells, this could give you a closer representation of chords when multiple keys are pressed. Right now, at best, it is a monophonic instrument. However, I would love to see this played by a keyboardist & maybe in a live band or in a recording studio. It does resemble the sound of a Rhodes keyboard. I played a bass Rhodes keyboard back in highschool, decades ago. I would have loved to have bought that off the highschool. Oh well.
What an incredible concept for an instrument. Did you test this with different wire gauges? I'd be interested to know whether that would only effect pitch of if timbre would change too based on how much light is being blocked during the physical interception of the laser. Also, the polyphony aspect of the instrument almost seems like pseudo ring modulation where not every interval will sound great, but some intervals will fit well to create a more cohesive sound.
You should use just intonation to tune the strings. Unlike 12 tone temperament, which is the tuning we use in music everywhere, it's composed of actually resonant frequencies.
How is the pitch of each note achieved? Are the strings at the end of each key different thicknesses or something or is it the keys themselves being different weights so they vibrate the strings at different pitches?
@@Edward_Black_Rose_Sound how difficult is it to tune the strings then? I imagine a lot of fine tuning went into the string lengths? Or did you just check the specific frequency of each string and then assign a note value to whatever the laser sees for that key?
@@wokeupinapanic There is a bolt with two washers at the end of the key. The string is squeezed between the two washers. If the bolt is not fully tightened, you can move the string with pliers so that you can adjust the length of the string. I use an iPhone tuner app to tune the strings to certain notes. It's not difficult, but it takes time for all the keys.
If I understood correctly the following intervals sound good - thirds, fifths and octaves. You could fix all the other intervals by having 4 lasers. Group the twelve notes of the octave into 4 triads, for example - {C,Eb,G} , {Bb, F, D}, {E, G#, B}, {F#, A, C#} (C minor , Bb maj, E maj, F# minor). 1 laser does 1 group and all its octaves, another laser does another group and so on.
Look up the physics of harmony. The harmonic scale refers to overtones created by pitches, either mono or when played polyphonically. These are basically what the organ foot stops (drawbars) are modeled after. 8' is the base pitch you are playing, as you increase the feet by x2 or /2 you get an octave lower or higher, respectively. Then organs fill in fifths and a couple major thirds along the way, just like the Harmonic scale does naturally.
@@loganwhite8375 I appreciate the idea, but I must note that the harmonic scale =/= equal temperament. The equally tempered third is already quite out of tune (20 cents was it?) you could improve upon the idea I layed out by having 6 lasers one for each adjacent perfect fifth (which are only 2 cents off) or 12 lasers for each note and its octaves. With more lasers you have to start fiddling around with positioning and allignment, Edwards idea is great because of its simple design.
can you combine separate lasers? You could use three or four different registers, perhaps? Using the same number of different angles planes for your wires?
I was expecting something Rhode-like (tines) as the sound is very similar, but a laser & sensor as the 'pick-up'? I didn't expect that and it was a great idea to see. Love that sound tho!
Sounds like it was very tedious to make. Way to go. Do you have a pdf created with the steps you made for the public..? Would be very interested in making one for myself.
Maybe if it had 12 lasers and diodes, one for each tone, but octaves shared the same laser, or even make the fifths share it too, can't work it out in my head how many lasers that'd be. But then you'd need som transmission. Or maybe you could angle them and have the lasers be placed in a circular shape. What wire did you use?
With that simplicity, no! Yes, the magnetic version can catch better sound. But it will take a little tweaking and complication to stop the vibration of the strings when the key is not pressed. Because the coil would pick up sound even if the string is farther away. There are a lot of such musical instruments on a magnetic principle, I wanted to do it differently and I thought of an optical version.
@@Edward_Black_Rose_Sound You can place felt pads under the strings. When the keys are not played, the strings will rest on the felt and will stop vibrating.
What strings are you using? It’s a low sound, but quite short strings. I’m also wondering if playing multiple note would work better in an even higher range? Very cool project, very inspiring :)
Does that mean that after holding down the key for a bit that the vibration stops and the note stops or are you causing the strings to constantly vibrate somehow?
It fades slowly. The low tones last much longer. If you want a long sound there is a trick, you can tap with the other hand on the finger with which you pressed the key, it works mainly in low tones.
I'm sure you addressed this elsewhere in these comments... but do you mind possibly reiterating? hehe. Is the photocell circuit connected to an arduino or some other computer? Or is the circuit analog, with CD4XXX ICs and such? Thanks! awesome project!... has my brain churning with some ideas also =)
HAHA ! I've seen your other video and was sure something was off : synthesizers produce their original signal from an electronic circuit, here the signal is produced by a mechanical component (that is then used by an electronic circuit) which mean this instrument belong to the electromechanical instruments category (like Fender-Rhodes or electric guitars) and shouldn't be called a synthesizer. Also, hats off to the idea of using a laser the way you did : as far as i know it's totally original and very clever (might steal the idea later).
![Edward Black Rose [Sound]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/LtLzHoaOk0ulZDnjz-OqvBBomCetQwcXCkfvHxHqVLMnSmHp2yWwlVBksudO1hinVMNjgLsEFQ=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
The laser method is genius, awesome project!
Thanks :)
@@Edward_Black_Rose_Soundhey Edward! I was wondering if you can build a keyboard for me! (Yes I will pay.) I need this instrument by April and I’m running out of options!
@@SIRSALADKING I'm glad you like this musical instrument, but unfortunately I can't make a stable version at the moment. This is just a prototype that is unstable, but also takes me a long time to make.
This is simultaneously complicated and simple at the same time. Such an original idea, implemented in an original way. I love it!
The reason that it is clearer playing an octave is because the octave is vibrating exactly twice as fast so the notes sound aligned more
sounds pretty dope
If you want to make another, make one with 1 photo cell per key and attach a small semi-mirror on each key so that the laser hits the correct photo cell, but also lets the laser pass through the mirror to the next key. :)
I can understand the semi monophonic keying but the use of a laser really messed me up as I was not expecting that. Well done 😃
Ooh, that's very cool! I love that it lets you get that electric piano sort of sound with surprisingly minimal electronics and mechanical elements. Nice work.
as a fellow balkanian instrument builder, I have to say that it is amazing and much respect!
It's so cool how the instrument works! Would love to hear it through some effect pedals!
This could ho full polyphony with two mirrors and 12 pairs of lasers and sensors, really nice!
That is an amazing idea and so simple
Thank you! 😊
That is an insanely ingenious method of sound generation. It's inspired!
wow, its amazing how good this sounds! reminds me a lot of the sound of a rhodes through a distortion pedal, which makes sense - the strings look like they're a similar length to the tines of an electric piano, crazy how light and magnetic-based pickups sound so similar
I guess that keys that would give a suitable overtone would vibrate in a synced way and work together. Sounds a bit like a FM synthesizer when you play two keys with suitable frequencies :)
Really cool build! Your channel deserves more subscribers :)
It is fm
@@morbidmanmusic Hmm. I'm not sure. FM is modulation of frequencies, and I wouldn't say that the upper tone is modulating the lower tone, rather adding tones.
That's brilliant, congrats!
I think the concept is very deep, we could do a lot of interesting music with this with the fascinating concept of two strings vibrating to make kinda one sound, testing different temperament would be nuts
Wie kommt ein Mensch auf so eine Idee? Ich bin schwer beeindruckt. Hut ab!
This is amazing!
Coolest sounding synth I’ve heard in ages
It's such an interesting electromechanical instrument. The thing I love about this is how fundamentally it connects the musician to the concept that sound is made of wavelengths.
Thus, "harmonious notes" (which means they are part of the same harmonic series) like octaves, fifths, etc., actually sound fantastic together, but other intervals don't sound so good.
To me, that's the defining feature of this instrument, even more significant than the laser part (though I agree that using a laser to measure vibration is pretty genius too).
Also, some people might call this "harmonics-only" feature "restrictive." They might complain that they want to do other intervals, so normal pianos or synthesizers are just better because they can do those.
But I really disagree with that view. I think this instrument, with its restrictions, allows you to think about music in a different way. Thus it provides a unique musical experience, which leads to unique music.
It's like how the Japanese shakuhachi really only plays on the pentatonic (5-note) scale, but it's still a beautiful instrument with a unique musical tradition that separates it from other woodwind instruments. As a shakuhachi player, you would think about constructing melodies in a different way than a flute player, who has access to a full 12-notes chromatic scale.
It's like how Indian classical music can make use of a tonality system that has more notes than the western 12-tone scale, which makes its instruments and its music unique. Even if Indian music has more notes than western music, we don't say that either one is "better." They're just different.
This sort of difference in musical experience is what makes instruments unique and valuable apart from each other, and it leads to unique and valuable musical pieces too.
One idea would be to use it like a fretted clavichord - multiple sensors for groups of notes
That's different. Love the randomness of it
amazing work Edward
It's like a laser kalimba, it's amazing
sounds like a fender rhodes, barky, distorted. very nice.
pretty cool idea!
I don't believe the issue you're having with multiple notes played is due any limitation of the instrument itself per se or any kind of blocking phenomenon but rather the range the instrument is in and it's harmonics limiting the kinds of intervals you can play across its range. Look up a concept called "Lower interval limit". Adam Neely has a good video explaining it in more detal. But essentially, as you go further down in pitch, certain intervals no longer sound harmonious together and can sound muddy. If you constructed a version of this instrument in a higher range, perhaps even just an octave up from where you have it, you might find it easier to get a more harmonious sound for chordal stuff.
With that said, it has such a unique voice as a bass instrument, I could see a lot of use for it as is. The fact you've developed something that's pretty streamlined in how it actually works with the wire attached directly to the key, only requiring a single light source and sensor, basically folding it down to one pickup AND it sounds cool is awesome. Great work, dude!
Amazing work! It must have taken a long time to tune those wires!
This is so cool, nice work!
That is absolutely genius!!!!!!!
That's one of the coolest ideas i've ever seen!!! Kudos!!
The strings go oooooppp
Same keys frequency is always double higher, which is probably why it works. Some other might work as well: there are some videos about overtone harmonies
A laser?
Genius!
Similar concept as a thumb piano but waaay cooler!
OMG, this is so cool! Sincere congratulations on this invention! Mass production when? :)
Thanks! With my 5 cents in my pocket, it seems never :(
Somewhat reminiscent of the Rhodes and Wurlitzer electric pianos, which also have vibrating bits that are amplified, no lasers though! Very Cool!
Exactly my thoughts, especially the barking low notes are really close to how the low notes on a Wurlitzer 200 (not 200A) sound.
Yes that is so amazing! It is like an even lighter version of the pianet that comes even more close to the real deal!
so ingenious! Big props
I'm amazed at this mechanism! Maybe it could be modified for good polyphonic sound by using reflected laser light instead of blocking laser light.
The tip of each string is painted reflective, and the laser is located to shine at the tips without overlap. The sensor is located next to the laser, pointed in the same direction. This way, the reflected light from the string tips will be additive.
Or maybe a doppler motion sensor could be used. In this case, the sensor would be above or below the strings, detecting motion toward/away from the sensor. They're designed to detect moving humans so maybe the strings would be too tiny to register. But these sensors aren't terribly expensive so it wouldn't cost so much to try.
There are ways to detect the movement of strings other than laser and photocell, such as electromagnetic as in guitars. This is the easiest way to make it polyphonic. I thought about the reflection of the strings, but it is quite weak and spreads in all directions. It can be done with a photocell under each string.
@@Edward_Black_Rose_Sound Maybe the amount of reflected light could be heavily increased by using flat metal strips instead of wires. That way, the laser could be on one side, aimed a bit upward, and the sensor could be on the opposite side, so the reflected light mostly goes toward the sensor. A bit of cardstock in the middle prevents laser light from going directly to the sensor.
But it seems fiddly anyway, compared to separate sensors.
Whoaaaaaaaaa!!! Beautiful, brilliant, amazing, elegant, genius! ⚡🤖🎹⚡
laser/photo sensor pickup system is simply brilliant.. fluttery fat frequencies..
I don't know how your electronic audio circuit looks like, but since you have 40 keys, perhaps you could install 40 photocells (instead of just the one) & position each cell adjacent to each wire "tine" but also putting thin wood walls inbetween each one so that they don't interfere with each other. Or use mirrors if placement is too tight. With 40 photocells, this could give you a closer representation of chords when multiple keys are pressed. Right now, at best, it is a monophonic instrument. However, I would love to see this played by a keyboardist & maybe in a live band or in a recording studio. It does resemble the sound of a Rhodes keyboard. I played a bass Rhodes keyboard back in highschool, decades ago. I would have loved to have bought that off the highschool. Oh well.
That is so neat. Great job dude
Wonderfull, absolutly wonderfull. Nothing more to say.
What an incredible concept for an instrument. Did you test this with different wire gauges? I'd be interested to know whether that would only effect pitch of if timbre would change too based on how much light is being blocked during the physical interception of the laser.
Also, the polyphony aspect of the instrument almost seems like pseudo ring modulation where not every interval will sound great, but some intervals will fit well to create a more cohesive sound.
Ring mod yes
You should use just intonation to tune the strings. Unlike 12 tone temperament, which is the tuning we use in music everywhere, it's composed of actually resonant frequencies.
Good job!
Thanks!
Very great job! Congratulate!
This video expanded my imagination
How is the pitch of each note achieved? Are the strings at the end of each key different thicknesses or something or is it the keys themselves being different weights so they vibrate the strings at different pitches?
The strings are just different lengths.
@@Edward_Black_Rose_Sound how difficult is it to tune the strings then? I imagine a lot of fine tuning went into the string lengths? Or did you just check the specific frequency of each string and then assign a note value to whatever the laser sees for that key?
@@wokeupinapanic There is a bolt with two washers at the end of the key. The string is squeezed between the two washers. If the bolt is not fully tightened, you can move the string with pliers so that you can adjust the length of the string. I use an iPhone tuner app to tune the strings to certain notes. It's not difficult, but it takes time for all the keys.
Pretty impressive 👌🏻
Thanks!
Bruhhhh, this is giving me EP vibes, more so than that of a synth
Nice!
good job, my friend
2:05 the fact that this thing is polyphonic is more interesting than it sounds
Maybe put small bits of foam under the keys to stop the clacking
If I understood correctly the following intervals sound good - thirds, fifths and octaves. You could fix all the other intervals by having 4 lasers. Group the twelve notes of the octave into 4 triads, for example - {C,Eb,G} , {Bb, F, D}, {E, G#, B}, {F#, A, C#} (C minor , Bb maj, E maj, F# minor). 1 laser does 1 group and all its octaves, another laser does another group and so on.
Look up the physics of harmony. The harmonic scale refers to overtones created by pitches, either mono or when played polyphonically. These are basically what the organ foot stops (drawbars) are modeled after. 8' is the base pitch you are playing, as you increase the feet by x2 or /2 you get an octave lower or higher, respectively. Then organs fill in fifths and a couple major thirds along the way, just like the Harmonic scale does naturally.
@@loganwhite8375 I appreciate the idea, but I must note that the harmonic scale =/= equal temperament. The equally tempered third is already quite out of tune (20 cents was it?) you could improve upon the idea I layed out by having 6 lasers one for each adjacent perfect fifth (which are only 2 cents off) or 12 lasers for each note and its octaves. With more lasers you have to start fiddling around with positioning and allignment, Edwards idea is great because of its simple design.
This is sick
amazing
😁
It sounds a lot like a Rhodes electric piano.
nice job
THIS IS SO HECKING COOOL, awesome job!!! :DDD. subscribed B).
Very lovely! Could maybe have a laser per octave, or maybe even one for each and every key as a brute force method haha
reminds me of vactrols which i just learned about through make noise optomix
👍 Great idea...Just afew bugs to work out (multiple keys).....I know you will do it.
can you combine separate lasers? You could use three or four different registers, perhaps? Using the same number of different angles planes for your wires?
This is really interesting, it really sounds like a phat analog synth. Really interesting design!
I was expecting something Rhode-like (tines) as the sound is very similar, but a laser & sensor as the 'pick-up'? I didn't expect that and it was a great idea to see. Love that sound tho!
Sounds like it was very tedious to make. Way to go. Do you have a pdf created with the steps you made for the public..? Would be very interested in making one for myself.
Perfect
Great idea! What kind of strings did you use? I suppose guitar strings, but wich one could it be, G, B or E?
Maybe if it had 12 lasers and diodes, one for each tone, but octaves shared the same laser, or even make the fifths share it too, can't work it out in my head how many lasers that'd be. But then you'd need som transmission. Or maybe you could angle them and have the lasers be placed in a circular shape.
What wire did you use?
In appearance it reminded me of the Yunost-70 synthesizer
Very cool channel!
I belleave trhat you can get a better sound if you use magnetic picups like on a guitar to turn the strings vibrations into electric signals.
With that simplicity, no! Yes, the magnetic version can catch better sound. But it will take a little tweaking and complication to stop the vibration of the strings when the key is not pressed. Because the coil would pick up sound even if the string is farther away. There are a lot of such musical instruments on a magnetic principle, I wanted to do it differently and I thought of an optical version.
@@Edward_Black_Rose_Sound You can place felt pads under the strings. When the keys are not played, the strings will rest on the felt and will stop vibrating.
I've been thinking just the same thing. Also the felt idea is very interesting.
The word for a keyboard that plays one key at once is Monophonic and there is alot of electronic bass in music which is this.
Amowse experimental instrument . Do you try guitar pickup? Polyphonic with it must be posible.
I was thinking the same thing.
Harmonic distortion. Great for bass lines but not much else. Amazing sound tho.
You should do a step by step tutorial from the ground up, deom building to coding. That would be awesome.
What strings are you using? It’s a low sound, but quite short strings. I’m also wondering if playing multiple note would work better in an even higher range? Very cool project, very inspiring :)
Is the audio directly coming from the output frequency that gets put out by the photo resistor ? Or is there a audio circuit attached to it ? :)
photonic piano!
Please make a Sample Library out of it !!
wow
It kinda sounds like a Rhodes a little bit. Laser Rhodes?
how is the laser converted to audio?
I think that is the really clever part, keeping that secret. Don't tell us @Edward Black Rose [Sound] . Let us keep guessing! 😉
The laser is converted into an electrical signal by the photocell. It can then be converted into audio by a speaker.
I'm pretty sure the sound you hear is the actual vibration of the metal rods as detected by the photocell and amplified.
Does that mean that after holding down the key for a bit that the vibration stops and the note stops or are you causing the strings to constantly vibrate somehow?
It fades slowly. The low tones last much longer. If you want a long sound there is a trick, you can tap with the other hand on the finger with which you pressed the key, it works mainly in low tones.
so it works like a failed attempt at a monophonic midi keyboard?
Sounds very FM, like a DX7.
If you want to know why multiple notes at the same time produce weird sounds, I think you should learn a bit about the overtone series.
You have to patent this ASAP.
Can it sound with laser
I'm sure you addressed this elsewhere in these comments... but do you mind possibly reiterating? hehe. Is the photocell circuit connected to an arduino or some other computer? Or is the circuit analog, with CD4XXX ICs and such? Thanks! awesome project!... has my brain churning with some ideas also =)
Optical fender Rhodes. One laser per note..
Do a sample set for Spitfire audio.
Thanks for a really enjoyable video @Edward Black Rose [Sound] It is very entertaining to read the comments from some of the "experts"!
Do you sell these?
Kinda reminds me a bit of a rhodes in a way.
Can u pls do a how to make a violin
HAHA ! I've seen your other video and was sure something was off : synthesizers produce their original signal from an electronic circuit, here the signal is produced by a mechanical component (that is then used by an electronic circuit) which mean this instrument belong to the electromechanical instruments category (like Fender-Rhodes or electric guitars) and shouldn't be called a synthesizer.
Also, hats off to the idea of using a laser the way you did : as far as i know it's totally original and very clever (might steal the idea later).
wait a minute, you should tune every wire i think