4L80 vs 4L60: What are the differences and which is better for you?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
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I'm not an LS guy but I love this channel for videos like this. Just get shit running and have fun! Why spend 5 to 10 times the money?
Man I REALLY appreciate this breakdown. Made perfect sense to me. I am going 4l80e all day everyday+stall speed.
Really appreciate the thorough breakdown sir. Super helpful.
I put a built 4l60 in my 5.3l turbo chevy and just blew it up last weekend.. should've listened to you JR, time to get back into the junkyard and build my own 4l80!
Love that you keep it a buck!
Good morning JR, you’re the best 😂 😂! Killing me with your comments. Thanks for the content you provide us with. Got my ls swap running thanks to your input 👍🏼💪🏻
Wow! There should never be any question on the strength of a 4L80/85 transmission. Hannibal has a 4L80 behind his 572 CID big block with a ProCharger F3R-136, controlled by a Holley Dominator and he has been past 3,000 horsepower. He is a drag and drive car and I drive him every chance I get. He has been 1,200 miles of Sick Ward, towing a trailer. I purchased the unit from Jake's Performance of Texas in a Reid Case, but it was a TURD!!! The torque converter failed in only 120 miles. When I tore it down, I found that it was full of unlabeled, Chinese parts! I got with SOINNAX and installed EVERYTHING they made for the 4L80 along with Raybestos Blue Plate Special clutches and Colene Steels and I've had NO transmission issues since November 2023, he's over 1,800 miles at this point. I took Jake's 4 MONTHS to repair that converter, it took Neal Chance Converters 4 DAYS to make me a new one. Some lessons are expensive! That Jake's converter can go to a new home for the price of shipping, I'll never use it!
When I was doing my swap on my 82 c10 Squarebody I searched for a good 80e but couldn't find one around here. So I had the 60e rebuilt with updated internals and a new converter. Added a trans cooler to try prolong the inevitable. Good so far though 2500 miles since the swap with no problems....yet
Wish you luck. My 60e has 11k on the rebuild. 2nd engages hard so I'm hoping it's just an accumulator piston. I regret not going with 80.
How’s it going
Dude, Well done!
I like them both. For a daily none towing vehicle doesn’t matter. For a big heavy pig a 80e tends to be what I would lean toward. The dyno doesn’t matter without info which one is better
Agreed, i also went with the 4L-80E
To add to the idiotic 4L60 take, in the Jeep LS swap group, I actually had people saying the 727 (which I retained because a:it was freshly rebuilt, b:I already had it and it was paid for) wouldn't hold up to the power of the factory LS, and that minimum I needed to use the 4L60. Seriously? 727s are as strong as a stock TH400 and were behind Hemis..... Some people. Yeah, it doesn't lock up. Yawns. Doesn't have an OD. Yawns in 2.72 ratio. Whatever. No speed sensor stuff needed. PCM tuned for no trans inputs. Connect factory speedo cable and go... My other ride is a T56.... Agree with using a 4L60 with a stock motor if you're just gonna drive it and enjoy. My preferred method. Don't mod anything. Drop in. Drive. Those dyno numbers are very compelling. I've always heard of the big transmission=big power losses argument for a long time. Nice to see it actually put to bed.
How much is the adapter? Is the juice worth the squeeze?
@@pmotorsports8276 $500. Yes, the juice is sweet. Still getting 20mpg on the highway and 17 avg. The same as any OD unit, plus I don't have to spend $$$ on regearing or driveshafts.
And maintenance on 4L60E. 4L80E was an option also
@@pmotorsports8276 Louder for those in the back... I'd have to purchase one first. Then adapt the Jeep driveline to take advantage of it (New driveshafts, regearing the axles, adapt speedo to electronic sensor). 727 wins.
Huge MoPar guy here, 727s are fucking INSAAANELY strong. In the 60s there were pumping out stock 727s that could take 600hp to the face. People were struggling to build 450hp motors in their garage to bolt up to transmissions that 40 years later get pulled from a junkyard to get rebuilt and put in 800hp applications.
It's actually kind of interesting too. There's this weird sociology/civics thing that I've found in car communities. Each community has different "rules" or "standards" that they go by, and the weirdest one I've found growing up was watching how quickly MoPar guys got used to autoswapping the hell our of everything while old AND young ford and chevy guys kept onto the "if it aint stick it ain't real muscle" - meanwhile the MoPar techpriests, who have already accepted the teachings of eldritch gods to develope batshit incomprehensible engineering practices, have been slapping button operated Solenoids to the front their B&M ratchets to make their automatics more automatic for decades. and more than likely its gonna go into a Plymouth Valiant with a 318 that's about to recieve 16psi of unwarranted boost so it can sound like a fuckin panther divebombing a small child from a tree while rolling tire through the 60ft and MAAAYBE scoring a whopping 15 second quarter 😂
Thumbs up Always love your Training School😊😊😊
Well said. That was some good information.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love your humor you had me dying laughing the first 2 minutes 😂😭
And rhia video saved me a lot of time and money. Thanks
Excellent video..thanks
Hi JR, I went with a 4L65E with a hardened shell, per my builder (for the trans) mostly because the fitment in my 83 Camaro. I had a perfectly operating 4L80E in my 1 ton van I stripped (where the 6.0 came from) but it was huge and frankly, I had all I could do to pull it out from under the van (with the converter) so I went lighter too. The 4L80 / van had 770K on it and I sold the trans complete for $200 and it was put in a truck and is still running! LOL Indestructible.
wish I seen this 4 days ago I will buy them 2 wheel 80e fir 150 n 200
Hunting 4l80e’s!!!!!!
@@looneytune4218 yes I am
4l80e life!! Ditch that 4l60e wherever possible if you're trying to have some real fun. Long term durability can not be beat. you nailed it
Hey Ol' Brother....I would absolutely love to hear your explanation of "lock up" converters. Primarily our jest of street use and how pressures and such play in from normal to smoking tires. Now time for some refined mountain waters. Thanks from Baytown...Skuf.
What motor mounts did you use to clear for your t4 manifold
im cheap af and just spent a ton on some holley stuff so im gunna run my 4l60 until she cant then toss in a junkyard 4l80 lol love the channel
I strongly prefer the gearing of the 4L60 in a truck scenario, the gear ratios are definitely better on a 4L80 from a performance standpoint but it takes alot of power in my opinion to use it effectively if you ask me that first gear is horrendously long, 0-60 in first gear babyyy. I really wish Holley or someone would make a controller to use a 10 speed it would really breathe life into the LS scene 4 speeds are severely outdated for most applications in my opinion, 10 speed cammed 5.3? Hell yeah coyotes can eat shit then
Coyotes already come with 10 speeds (some of them) I have one and I eat LS trucks all the time
So which last longer if it’s the same setup same everything and ran the same way?
"if 8hp matters you're running 9s, 8s, 7s, you should have a 400" If it's a street car I disagree. Still 80e, but you're going to need a few not cheap parts and if you get that trans from me. I do some stuff that reduces parasitic losses by a margin more than that 8hp. Overdrive and lock up is a lot of benefit to throw away.
"3200 minimum" No, please don't say that. It depends on usage. Also stall speed doesn't matter like people think it does. How that converter actually runs moving the mass of the vehicle is priority #1. There is a general correlation between stall speed and how the converter runs. It is not as direct as you would think it is. Putting a 3200+ stall 10" converter in everything is a mistake, and saying that makes my job hard when people have their mind fixated on that and what the vehicle is and/or the usage is better suited for something different.
You like your converter from me because it is built that way to work well in a manner to meet my standards based on a balance between driving efficiency and track testing. My standards are extremely high. There is some confirmation bias there. You're a good customer, but some of my best customers are the guys who had something else and I had to fix it or sell them something different all together. They got to see the difference first hand. You could have just as easily bought something similar from someone else and have it work mediocre. If you've never had something else better, or don't know how to truly judge it, you may be none the wiser.
Much the same way a pizza is a pizza. The recipe and ingredients can vary wildly. You can even have a situation where you buy most the same ingredients from the same distributor and still end up with different results. That's converters in a pizza. I'm not just building converters, I'm trying to build the best damn converters you can buy. Part of what I am doing goes beyond just building a good converter, into making sure it's the correct converter. What a Sommelier is to wine I am to converters.
I was linked here by a customer.
I have a th400 in my 1990 k1500 4x4. I will say even just a 5.3 ss1.5 cam and a gen 4 intake with a ebay 90mm. It kills my old tbi 350. I figure since 2500hd 4x4 from 92 to 97 have a 4l80e and the trans crossmember is bolt on after you drill 2 holes. I can use the stock driveshafts. I just have to wait it for one to get to the yard. Even if it's a 2wd I'll take the crossmember and get the trans later. I mostly need the 4th gear for highway.
Makes perfect sense that people ignore and argue about
Question, I’m dropping a rebuilt 6.0 with a small cam and thinking about doing a LSA Supercharger. I’m torn between the 4L60 and 4L80. People are saying that the 80 will hold up better. In your opinion which is true? I work part time at Orielly’s and I can get a 4L65-E for 1,600.00 with a 3 year warranty.
6.0 lq4 bone stock swapped into fox body mustang. Just using as mild weekend cruiser that can pass shit on the highway and sound good. Got a free 4l60e from a friend. Will 4l60e be good enough for my needs behind a stock 6.0 lq4?
Turbo 400 for me, 4l80es arent cheap, and 4l60s aren't good
Me too till I fell in love with the 99-07 single cab short wheelbase GM trucks
I got a 4100 car, 4l80e built, and 4500 stall converter. Car came with 3:08 original. I want to smoke the tire ls without even touching the brakes. What gear ratio I should go with.
@@ericperry4934what engine do you have in it?
Lq4 .. carb 750 . hot cam
@@ericperry4934 ok depends on how much torque that combination will make. I'd say at least 3.73 gears.
Got my 80e for $300 on facebook, rebuilt and added a 3000stall. Way better than a 60e
People keep saying 4l60e is a bad tranny but I’ve never had a single problem with mine and I noticed most of the folks that did drive like $hit!…
The 4L60e in my truck has 295,000 miles on it. Still operates perfectly.
My '77 K5 is getting a 4L80 cause yea....everything you just said!
I'm going to build a t bucket kit car and I'm going to throw a 350 in it. Was wondering which trans would be best for it.
So i got 6.0 ls engine wit a thumper cam stage 2 and 4l60 trans. Its jumping at red lights wit a 2500 stall. Which size up would u go to get rid of the push thru and without messing up the trans. Plz respond 😂
2500 is barely over stock, I wouldn't run any LS with less than 3k
Very impressive, this upload...
That's a lot of catching up lol
@@TheDrivewayEngineer I'm not dead, just lazy and falling behind lol
Thank you for taking time to explain some of this, but in reality a moded 60 with a better 1st gear ratio and a lighter T converter are much more gooder for guys with half ton set ups in my op.
its not just 50pds ( which is HUMUNGUS in terms of ET), Tuning the trans to match the engine modifications and using torque management appropriately keep the El 60 the trans to go with in my op.
I picked up a 4L80E a few years back for $850. It came out of a '99 Suburban. It's gonna go in my '70 Chevelle. Currently it has a TH400 with a 2400 stall and 4.10's. Great combo, just need that OD. Question is, can it handle a stout 454 in stock configuration? If not, what should be done to it?
They put them behind 454's, and 8.1's, and Duramaxs
Right on
Ok, thia seems to help a lot. But i still got a question. Whats a good/fun combo for 5.3 and 4l80 for street say on a 98 1500 extended cab.
Put a 3200 rpm converter in it and go have fun
@@TheDrivewayEngineer thanks 👍
I know this is going to sound old school and stupid but comparing the 4L80E and the 4L60E is like comparing the turbo 350 to the Turbo 400 yeah the turbo 350 could do the job but not as well as the Turbo 400
Not to mention the 80e is simple to modify on your owncompared to a 60e.
I have a 85 C10 6.2
What transmission do you recommend me to use 4l60e or 4l80e?
What did you end up going for ?
Sorry if you been asked this, but what stand alone controller do you use ?
Factory PCMs
I'm going need the links to them 4l80E 2 wheels fir buck 50 I'll rebuild em
I just think of 4L60 as a th350 and a 4L80E as a a electric overdrive th400. My work truck is a 2005 2500HD. 6.0 gas 4L80e and 14 bolt rear axle. I want to part it out but l can't. I work too much.
Sell parts at a reduced cost and they remove tge parts
The problem with ALL 4L60E's and 4L80E's is the rapid wear of the valve body around the TCC Regulator Valve bore, causing hard banging shifts from park to drive, park to reverse, and 1st to 2nd, as well have rev hangs at light to mid throttle and early shifts at full throttle. You'll know when it starts happening once you have those symptoms, yet shutting the vehicle off and letting it sit for about one minute magically makes it all go away for a while again, then it randomly comes back again later and another shut off makes it go away again.
More "don't know shit" comments.
Hahaha "Ya haven't seen $hit a$$hole"! Love it!
I don’t care what people say. If I’m gonna take the time to LS swap ANYTHING, it’s gonna have at least a cam upgrade…. I would never waste my time with a 60e. Unless I built a ls powered golf cart….. maybe a 60e then. 🤣
What torque converter for stock 6.0 tow vehicle? 4l80
Stock
$6k for a 4l60😂…..shit that kinda money I’m adding a 3rd petal an 2 more gears
I feel like I need to review my stall speed understanding. I don't plan to drag race, but daily my 72 C10. I guess my stall speed understanding is from non lockup converters.
I'll plan on doing a video on how converters work in the next week.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer much appreciated
@@TheDrivewayEngineer👍Perfect...
That was my next thing wondering about🤔
I have a ‘72 C10 with a warmed up 454 and TH400, 3.73 posi. The TH400 has been reliable with occasional trips to the drag strip, but I would love an overdrive. What would work the best? 700R4 has good gearing, but there is a debate that it will/won’t handle the big block torque? 4L80e?
Size constraints is a big issue. I think a 4l80e is about 1.5" longer. Biggest think in my opinion with a 4l60e is retaining torque management and increasing the pump pressure. They are also upgradeable to a 4l75e. The 3.05 first gear is nice if you go offroad a lot.
It's less than an inch in length, like I said in the video.
2wd guys typically don't even need a new driveshaft.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer I said otherwise because I thought you were wrong. I just looked it up though and I'm wrong. I'm going outside now to catch a crow to eat.
😂
There's a lot of conflicting info out there.
Most of it is pushed by people with something to sell sadly.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer
Just learning about this swap. Why doesn’t a 2WD need a different driveshaft, but, a 4WD does?
Yup exactly
I want a 4l80e, cause my 4l60 is going out lol
A Sonnax Engineer told me a 4L80E will handle 850 HP before you have to worry about anything failing .
How are you destroying 4L60E’s? Are you always in Drive? Are you doing burnouts?
My 2001 Tahoe 5.3 4x4 with a 4L60E has 280.000kms on it. It still works like it should.
Your stock lame as vehicle has a stock lame ass Trans?
Sweet
@@TheDrivewayEngineer yes.
I blew Up tons of 4l80s in my terbo Silverado, bought a rpm transmissions 4l60 couple years ago and haven’t had a problem since
I tuned my 4l60 with the cat trans program?? It’s kinda wonky. That program sets it up for drag racing I think. It has a lot of pull midrange at full throttle and top end it just flies. As a daily driver it acts like a muscle car lol. On a stock 5.3 in a 04 Yukon. With only cai. Almost forgot, I yanked out the stock exhaust and added side pipes. Laker side pipes?? It freed up the exhaust big time. Sorry no video of it. . And a few tunes with the hptuners. Mainly if you can get the timing close for top performance and only tune the timing curve on the table it’s a big difference from factory settings. The trans takes a better beating if setup for a beating. Lol. Anyway. Hello driveway!! Shooot. 😂
The Bluecat tool?
I use it also, but it still takes some tuning from the baseline given
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Bluecat. Ya that’s what it’s name is. I knew it was cat something. 🤓
The torque and gvwr are on the web for the trans...
I looking for a 4l80e do u have any for sale?
Nope, I don't sell parts
agree on aluminum blocks n an 6 or 10 hp in street car that never sees a track lol I had guy turn down rebuilt 6.0L cause it was cast block n and he said that aluminum block was lighter (it is) and he'd make around 3 sec faster with it 🤣 car never seen the track..an material ur blocks made from not going get you 3 secs unless ur adding stuff anyway. an Ata diff level. I mean he wanted the aluminum block n heads I never heard run n bought cast 5.3L I told him I knew nothing about when he came to look at a built 6L. he seen aluminum block n had to have it it was good motor glad it turned out to be cause I ne er heard the motor run n told him I had not.
👍
Agreed that the 60e is fine for daily driving, millions of them do that. I destroyed 3 60es( 2 stock 2 with upgrades) with a modified 4300 vortec in an S blazer..... so any amount of LS power will eventually murder a 60e.
So if you're rebuilding your own transmission, maybe you could make a 60e tough enough to handle LS power? For not too much money, since you're DIY
@enermaxstephens1051 , it may last a little bit. But read again what I posted. I broke multiple 4L60Es with a v6 4.3L making a dyno proven 170hp and 224lbft of torque. Granted it was in a somewhat portly 4x4 Blazer. But, if you get north of 400hp at the wheels a 60e is on borrowed time if you have good traction.
@@AndyR1982I'll just go with an 80e then thanks!
💥💥💥💥💥
This is why people come here.
I build transmissions daily. The 80 is far more stout. I would not consider a 4l60 above 400hp reliably - even with the drums and upgrades you can get for them.
A built 4l60e into a 4l70e or even stronger 4L75E. Because of the lower first gear. And its lighter and shorter then the 4l80e.
And the 4L75E is no "stronger" than the 4L60E. Maybe put the Sonnax ratio kit in it too - because of the lower first gear.
cant find a 4l80 for less than 1400 now
😂
I walked past three in the junk yard yesterday.
People like you will never find one.
Go watch 1320 or some bullshit, this channel is for people who do shit, not talk shit
@@TheDrivewayEngineer jesus christ man, smoke some weed. i was talking about the goofs on market/craigs. been watching your channel and DOING for 13 years... real easy to click on someones profile and see their vids. no need to be an asshole either. Meanwhile I make about $1000 a week just removing VATS for idiots so I am not one, clearly.
305 peg leg but man it could pull the front tires a foot off the ground 🤦♂️
But in his defense uncledaddy did let him sit up front in his lap
I have an 80e but know absolutely zero about it. I spose that's why I'm watching videos. Mines going in a 68 cadillac and everyone seems to go with the 60e saying only minor metal massaging is necessary in the trans tunnel to fit. That being said, I wonder what kind of modification I'll need to do for the 80e... I really don't wanna buy another trans...
If the chassis will fit a TH400, and yours does, extremely likely it'll fit. 4l80e
lol I need 4l80E ' s cores now.
Hello everyone.
I'll take a built 4l60e over a TH Junk 400 or 350
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA... ahem.. sorry.. For real the only reason to build a 4l60 is for an application where you absolutely cannot use a 4l80. there is no excuse to use the 4l60 if you can avoid it. That said the last 4l60 I had to build for application specific a 4wd 1500 suburban with a whipple supercharged afr headed 383 cost me over 1800$ in hard parts and clutches (no labor) just to live behind 400 wheel HP (8 years ago). The low 1st gear was a requirement even with the 4.10 front and rear gears due to weight and tire height and application. The sad part is a 4l80 conversion would have been half the cost had the Chassie allowed for the conversions (99 down)
My 96 K1500 turbo 6.5 just shit it's forth 4l80 my 98 Z71 5.7 has 397 000km on its original never pulled ,4l60e
That's because the 6.5 is a diesel, diesels are known for shattering transmissions like glass because they make way more low end power than high end and that's where your gonna be driving 99% of the time and the 5.7 has things like torque management in place too I'm pretty sure the computers on the 6.5's aren't nearly as smart to have things like that
Friends dont let friends run 4l60
We are not friends. I have two of them. Oh no!
First like!!!
I always called it, paying the STUPID tax.😊
My Georgia Boy built stage 50 4L60E will push the Millennium Falcon to the moon and it's making at least 5000 horsey torques. That's alien horsey torques so I guess that's around 400 hp sooo 🤣
Just kidding. J.R. is correct on the 4L60E/4L80E debate.
$192 tax in for my 2006 4L80E at the JY..that do the job for my need 6L ;)
What about reliability? People claim 4l80e is way more reliable
That's because it is
@@chrishansen7004 yea I just wished he would of touched on that. I eventually want something with more reliability. I have a perfect low mileage transmission right now but who knows how long it'll last
I can't fit a 4L80 under my floor. I have a 4L70, I hope it's good for 500hp.
If you can fit a 60 under your floor, you can fit an 80.
Good luck though, you'll need those extra E's
Get a bigger hammer
Oh ya. DARYL? We are gonna have ta bullshit sum time.
4l80e all the way
4L80 is better all day.
to anybody that is actually in need of a stronger trans than a 4l60e but arent cavemen. dont waste your time on a 4l60e dont piss on a 700r4 th350 or 400. let those puppies burn.
4l80e doesnt just plug and play wire pinning and ecu tuning is needed to run. if your going to need to do that anyways make life simple. get the 6l80e. its just as strong or stronger than a 4l80e. it has 6 gears vs 4 gears. slightly better 6th gear ratio. .7 gm 4 speed .68 6l80e. you can get it with a standalone controller for 3500 bux. and physically its not much larger than 4l60e. its about the same size as the 4l80e. and if you get the one with the yoke flange output shaft not a slide in yoke its actually shorter and stronger.
Who makes a standalone for a 6L80E??
6L80E only lasts because of torque management, they're no where near the strength of a 4L80E.
@@aaronnoyb there are a few that do i can shoot you a link to the one im getting when my 3rd 4l60e fails... this one has a warranty so ill keep it kicking for atleast 1 more year. and the 4l80e and 6l80e are the exact same trans plus gears basically the same internals. its exactly stronger than the 4l80e as it has all updates the 4l80e could get on its last day on its day one. just like a 4l60e is stronger than a 700r4 even with a mild build the 4l60e is better stock.
the 6l80e can handle 600hp with abuse stock and in light vehicles it wasnt designed for its known to handle 800-1000hp ill never see a 4l80e handle that.
@@chehystpewpur4754
I understand that 6L80E's are standing up to 600HP in stock form, ZL1, CTS-V etc, as every stock/OE vehicle, has torque management, as in the motor protects the gearbox during gear changes by cutting power momentarily. Without that protection, they die at 400HP, which is why there's so little aftermarket controller support for them. That's why the 4L80E wins for strength, with the appropriate changes, they'll handle wide open shifts at a 1000HP. Plenty of drag/drive cars exceeding that too.
@@aaronnoyb its no different than a tcm which is used on most gm applications. it uses the exact same signals as the stock setup would but communicates with the trans contoller. most of which is in the trans itself. same as the 4l60e/700r4 th350 and th400. its almost all controlled by the trans. the controllers or pcm only handles a few things now and the stand alones for the 6l80e ive seen are tuneable. torque management is a thing yes but it has changed over the years. and tuning also opens possibilities for that. its not to limit power anymore its to utilize when your motor makes power. the 6l80e is a replacement for the 4l60e and 4l80e counterparts. gm even wanted it to be used with their own standalone for restomods.
its not perfect nothing man made is. but it is better in pretty much all ways.
If you have a 4l80 for $1k and under, hit me up lol
They're stack 30 deep in every self service junkyard, have to put your phone down though.
I was really enjoying the video until you started cursing.
Herpies ha????🫡