I have a twin turbo 4wd Silverado 6.0L with the 4L65E making 940hp.... 5 years strong... transmission is perfect. I just don't start it up or drive it.... Will last me forever
4 года назад+4
I swear you are making at least 1200, maybe 1500 horsies. Why not exaggerate a bit over shots. I'm game!
I have a 5000 pound Blazer with a twin turbo 555 BBC that makes 1340 to the wheels and a built 4L80E works great , I don’t care that a 400 with a gear vendors which used to be in it is quicker down the track I like the 3000 ish lock up converter I have and being able to program the rpm I want it to shift it , I am using the ez tcu and have the hand held mounted permanently to display rpm, speed , whether converter locked , voltage, tranny temp , tps percentage , gear it’s in , and the bonus of having a manual mode where I have a toggle switch to shift it just like a manual valve body .
Good to know. I have a 1965 carryall that is getting some beef. Dana 80 rear, Super duty 60 front with Janz engineering HP 70 ring and pinion. Hope to keep it under 7000lbs. Got my turbos and headers now need $ to build a big block. I will need a stout transmission.
I blew apart a 4l60e on my supercharged 98 S-10 SS 4.3 making 470whp @ 30k. I also sheared the output shaft on my tune only 4.8 RCSB 4x4 Sierra with 33s. This video is all kinds of good advice.
@@NativeDescent Vortech sq2 kit at 15psi (one of the first to have the kit back in 99-00). Port and polished heads. Comp cam 270, meth injection, 2114 Edelbrock manifold MPFI conversion speed density tune with 411pcm. I don't have that setup anymore. The timing chain went. Eventually will be working on a twin turbo setup for about 800hp when the money is right. I have a lot of the parts, just gotta get a motor built to handle it.
I removed the THM375 (THM400 with longer tailshaft) in my 1990 454SS Truck. I built a 4L80E with heavy parts and installed in my truck. I used a Compushift electronic shifter. That was in 2006. Still running good. I installed a heavy duty cooler with fan for cooling up front.
I had a built 60e built by Brinkley Transmission in Kinston NC about 5 years ago for my sb Silverado with a lq9, cammed, converter 9.5 inch, full exhaust, 3.73 gears. I paid right at 1550 for the rebuild and that thing worked flawless! I raced that truck any and everywhere and it never missed a beat!
I’m not a shop owner, but I do build a lot of performance transmissions for high power cars. I tell people that ask about a 4l60 build that you can buy every upgrade for the 60, it will still be weaker than a stock 4L80 with a shift kit. If you need more upgrades to a 60 than premium frictions and maybe a drive shell, you need a 4l80. If you can make a 4L80 fit, use it!!
@@TAShannon1 the Sonnax smart shell? Aftermarket gearsets and shafts? I’m sure there are others, but that covers the majority of them. Go back and read what I said. Or find someone who can read to do it for you. With all the high dollar upgrades, a good USED 4l80 is more durable than a 4l60, even with the high dollar upgrades. A 4l60 behind lots of power will always be a maintenance item. Who cares if a 4l60 is a couple hundredths quicker if it won’t make it the next round??? The ONLY way I’d ever recommend spending the money on high dollar upgrades for a 4l60 is if a 4L80 just won’t fit (Corvette with rear mounted transmission for example)
@mattrodgers4878 that's what im saying, 4l80 isn't always the best option. You can't fit a 4l80e into everything. Just because a transmission builder is building a 4l60e and spending the high dollar cash needed to get it up to par doesn't mean that they are ripping people off. It's roughly 5k worth of parts on a fully built 4l60 which sucks to have to spend but If a 4l60e is built right by somebody who really knows what they're doing and not being unrealistic with the end goal then it is a viable option. Sometimes it is the only option. Hard part upgrades is one thing. Getting everything to work together optimally is a symphony of part choice and valve body modification paired with the right vehicle for the right usage. These are two completely different classes of transmissions. Yes the 4l80e is the boss, the goat, old faithful but definitely not going to be the best option every time against a 4l60
Great video! I had to give a big sigh of relief after watching this video! I'm getting ready to LS Swap my 75 Chevy Caprice Classic! Just bought an LQ9/4L80E Combo! Gonna beef the motor up a bit more but now I feel more at ease... Big shout out to the Driveway Engineer! I'm addicted to your videos! 👍
4l80e for me .I just found out with HD -3 transgo shift kit makes it full manual ! No computer no tps ! And lock up does work . What ever gear you put it in it will take off but I would advise to start in first and run thru your gears . You will have to run a deep pan to clear the valve body mod I'm building a 69 chevelle with 468 good balanced bottom and hydraulic roller. I think the transmission will work out for me. Thanks for sharing your videos!!
Thank you for the information I really didn't want to hear. I just dropped almost 2k on building a 4L65 that can't even stand up to my mild 5.3. I guess you never get too old to get schooled. Now to find a Turbo 400 or a Tremec TKO
I just picked up a 6.0 yesterday and been looking for a 4l80e I was wondering about the years.. you answered my question. Thank you P.s seems to me then 4l80’s way cheaper in Michigan than Chicagoland area. I’ll be in three river,mi next week so hope I find one that way.
They're probably cheaper in Wisconsin too. We have more trucks getting destroyed in wrecks and by weather, you have more people building serious street cars
I have PTSD just looking at a 4L60e. I've been through about 5 "end all be all" builds and eventually swapped to a TH400. I can live without the overdrive vs spending thousands of dollars every year on a 4L60e.
@williammurray8060 to be fair this comment is very old, and the car I was running I would track about every weekend and beat on. As a daily driver I don't see any issues with them. But for performance I don't care much for them.
Mmm men. Im a rebuilt my blazer v6. With almost beat up clutches. With reheat toque converter. And I haul trailer with carpet and tile. Heavy tile carpet. And has metal residuals. I just change filtre when it doesnt shift
Would love to hear your thoughts on the best transmission to use on a 4x4! Love all the vids, you seem like the most honest and knowledgable guy I have listened to on RUclips.
I guess it depends on alot of factors. I like the 4l80 in a 4x4, but having to get new shafts and stuff, I understand why people resist swapping in that instance. It's kind of why I just buy 3/4 4x4's to start with myself.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer also interested in 4 by 4 trans. How much hp would the 4l60 support ? Not running it hard since it come in 2nd gen tahoes and I’m sure a lot more? But do have bigger tires and rims
5 years silverado 2003 4x4 with 5.3 sc, 6.0 sc and 6.0 turbo on 4L60 two times change some disc and one time the belt on a 11.60 best et on 1/4 mille track and every weekend race on 1/8, 100 ydr dirt or sand, one on a million 4l60.
Sometimes the other mods that are necessary for upgrading to 4L80E, perhaps fitment issues, relocating trans mount brackets, new or modifying the old driveshaft, might turn some people off from the upgrade because it's definitely not a direct swap and they may not want modification for such things. Just depends on what your goals are and how much you want to waste on a hopped up 4L60/65/70E vs going with a relatively stock 4L80E
@@TAShannon1 I try to stick with lamens logic ... but i can get carried away. ;) I drilled new holes into the frame to move the Transmission Crossmember back nearly 10 inches from the stock TH350 to a late 4L80E/85E .
Ive been through 5 4l60e's. 3 of them within a span of 8 months. Had all the bells and whistles. Roasting em with a little 4.8 with a baby bumstick. Good video
I’m building a 69 Chevelle with 468 . Glad you shared this information ℹ️ I know the 4l80e will be in it with a TCI controller. I will see occasional drag strip duty!! Thanks for sharing!!!
I have been building Heavy Duty and Performance automatics since late 1977. The 4L80E can be done somewhat cheaply (not rebuilding it), if you find a good core or a running one with little to no clutch/band material in the pan (oil still red, no water or black oil). Install the TransGo HD2 along with two TH200 low/reverse support cup seals, to seal the case to center support. This eliminates the leaks here in the third, reverse circuit. Use the Circle D 11" or a reliable smaller diameter torque converter of your choice. Do not disable the accumulators, keep the feed holes matched to what you have as far as horsepower, torque converter diameter and stall, rear end gear ratio, weight of vehicle, and how you drive. These can take 750 FWHP - 900FWHP and live. Once you get past 900FWHP, then additional upgrades are most likely needed. The 1999 & later cores are best, as they come with the the Tubulator steels (lessens clutch drag), wider Hi-Energy front band, 34 element intermediate sprag, Borg Warner Hi-Energy clutches, etc. I have been saying this to people for many years now. However, I do specialize in 4L60E's. The 4l60E LS series can be made to hold up to 750 FWHP, and last. Mine do come with a two year warranty when using the right torque converter. Most people want to use the 4L60E, and I have been able to make this work successfully for many years. Dana @ Pro Built Automatics.
Have a 4l85e in my tahoe after blowing 2 60e trans with a cammed 6.0 My 85e just breezes thru shifts that would make my 60e feel like it was going to shatter. The transgo kit works well but Sonnax makes a relief valve so you don't have to drill the valvebody like transgo recommends. Transgo's pressure relief could potentially cause you to burn down your trans if it sticks open.
I am looking to get a built trans to go behind an old school hemi. Given that an adapter for big block Mopar to the 4L60/80 is $850 I appreciate your insight and no nonsense approach.
Oh man, that would be a catastrophe lol. Is it a bell to replace the Chevy bell? Or an adapter? Because an adapter would let you use a 4l80, which would be fine.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Ha ha yes thanks trying to figure out 4spd-auto options that can deal with the torque. Otherwise, will just build an expensive 727 and crossing fingers.
I finally bit the bullet and getting a 4L80E myself. My local performance shop told me "if it's built right", too. It just can't be built right, I don't care if you use the best Transmission builder, buy "Sonnax this" and "Smart shell" that, etc. If it holds up a year for me, that's being lucky. I start having shift problems long before that. On the street, if I don't feather it, even with Mickey Thompson ET Street SS's (27.5 and 28" tires and 3.73 rear) the car will spin through 1st and 2nd and most of the way through 3rd. I replaced my 10 Bolt rear years ago and stopped breaking rear ends. The 4L60E just can't do it. I can't even finish locking my tune in with WOTs before the transmission is slipping or breaking something. Bye 4L60E.
Got a 2000 Gmc 3500 work truck and not a dully ,owned since new and just keeping it tuned and full of fresh oils keeps me running down the freeway at 80 mpg with 6000 pound of load comfortable ride with 30 2X4 studs on the lumber rack and a 4L80E Allison tranny included!
I got a 97 1 ton 454 80E brought it in 2002 with 78 thousand pulled a 38 foot 5th wheel all over the mid west to ND, SD, NE, WY, MT, ID, UT, NM, AZ for ten years now has a 160 thousand and still pulls a new one 900 miles to WY every year no problems.
You had to throw in my 93 2wd 4.3 4l60!? Lmao, thanks man made my day! Thanks for the video. You're right get yourself a Th350 or 400 for your v8 swap I've had both in my v8 s10s I've built over the years.
I can't find a 2wd 4l80e near me. This may turn into a lengthy search. My local transmission shop he can swap the rear housing and output shaft for another $125.
Thks good video i like what you said but I have payed to have the 4l60 rebuild and the up grades its a stock 5.3 in my 1974 surberbon I had bought the howlle wiring harness ill do the 4l80 next on thks
Interesting thought about the 700r4. I put a 4.8 in my K5 Blazer and kept my 700r4 with no adapter from Bowtie Overdrive, I made it for free with a welder and some scrap steel. I might post a video on it. The engine isn't making any power over stock
I've melted my 4L60E bumping the boost (from 5 PSI to 11 PSI)of my Magnusom Supercharged 2006 Tahoe with a iron block but 799 heads BTR Truck Norris 5.3, and going 4L80E, no doubt. Great, simple, straight to the point video.
Im glad you brought up S10 in your video. I have 4.3L in mine and I cruise. Nothing fancy power wise but I'm thinking about doing a 4L80E swap into it later on when the 4L60E goes out. I work construction and this truck works perfectly for what I use it for. I love the 4.3L, solid motors but I don't trust 4L60E transmissions.
Give me that legendary TH400! I gotta a stock th400 behind a 496 big block with 565hp/600tq in a 68 Impala, I beat the hell out it, and she's still shifting like butter. Crazy thing is it the original transmission from 1968👍👍 4l80e are beast transmissions just costly.
Well I'm doing well on my current 4L60E, behind a stock 99 LS1 in a 2700 lb car with a 3600 yank stall. After 2 went out.... 1st was my fault (forgot to fill it after the swap) 2nd they (performa-)built a POS that went out in 1500 miles..... Then a local trans guy rebuilt that( fixed the problem), and it's been in the car ~8 years. Next one will be an 80 with a similar stall.
I think there's a lot of folks here that are misunderstanding the 4L60 transmission, or any "factory" GM trans. In the R&D world of automotive, there's a cost that's always monitored. If you've read the headlines on the Ford ZF transmission, then you'd fully understand. The 4L series transmissions ALL have their limitations. When these transmissions are designed and built, their done so with driver comfort in mind. Every manufacturer does it. Every transmission is only designed to last through warranty. Automatics by their very design will not last forever. They will wear out eventually. Some last longer than others, it all depends on the driver habits. I've never replaced a 4L series transmission, in any vehicle I own. Neglect and abuse is what kills transmissions. Is a 4L80 the way to go in a performance application, sure! Will the 4L60 survive in a performance application, yes it will. In a mild performance application, the 4L 60 is a great transmission. If someone builds a 1000+ hp car, then the 4l60 is probably not the best choice for a transmission. The 4L80 isn't a good choice either. At WOT throttle, the 4th gear isnt used anyways. The 4L60 has limitations! If it didn't, then those transmissions would've been used in everything. The 4L60 was used in many GM car and trucks. GM would've stopped using them if they were problematic a long time ago. I saw a post about someone complaining about a 4l60 going out after mounting 33" tires and wheels. Are you aware of how heavy those wheels are? I have a set of 35" tires from a Silverado that had a blown transmission. Guess what, that trans was fried! The failure was due to the excessive TCC slippage. The wheels are heavy, and it takes a lot of horsepower to turn them. There's a lot of rotational mass that the trans has to get turning, on top of getting the vehicle up to speed. The excessive slippage caused the TCC to fail and send garbage all through the trans, consequently destroying the trans. Again neglect and abuse. You can't put gobs of hp/torque through a stock transmission, blow it up, and complain about it. Remember neglect and abuse! These transmissions were made for stock applications. 33" tires are not stock. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest with anyone, but I just don't get why people are complaining about the 4L60. It was never intended to be a performance transmission. Quit calling the 4L60 transmission garbage, when failures 99% of the time are caused by the owner.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Ok like I posted before, I'm not trying to start an argument here. Your claim of electronic protection removal puts it on borrowed time is based on what evidence? What protections are you referring too? I'm very close with these series of transmissions. I've been around them, inspected them, rebuilt them, and destroyed them since 1992. I think you made a decent video, but you praised the 4L80. In reality, it can only hold about 80 ft lbs more torque that the 4L60. If you know the common failure points of the 4L series transmissions, then you can actually make these transmissions withstand more. I've been a mechanical engineer for going on 40 years, with also a degree in metallurgy. If you take a thin piece of metal, flex it back and forth, eventually it's going to break. Flexing a piece of metal beyond it's serviceable limit causes microscopic stress cracks. Those cracks eventually propagate out from the original starting point, until the cracks meet. What do you think happens inside a transmission. Neglect and abuse will push the design limits of the internal components, until a failure occurs. I'm sorry, but you can't fault the 4L60 for design. Again your video wasn't bad at all, but it was very one-sided. You praised the 4L80 as being almost bulletproof, when they are not. It really wasn't a bad video.
@@demontech06 all I'm saying in the video is if you have a choice, and it's a performance application, start with the 80. In reality with no type of power reduction on shifts, it's capable of 800 ft/lbs on the input shaft before failure. A 60 is capable of about 2 dozen WOT 2-3 shifts at the 400 ft/lb level before clutch pack failure. I'm not interested in, or talking about some soccer mom's stock Tahoe or grand dad's Silverado. The transmissions work fine for what they were intended to do, give a deep first gear to under powered pigs of trucks and SUV's so they feel powerful, and give them a deep overdrive to maintain mid teen fuel economy. They were never intended for the power people attempt to shove through them today, any fool can remove every shred of spark retard, fuel reduction, and reduce shift times to 0 on a 4l60 behind an LS with a cam and a 200 shot making 500 HP, and it will fail. Then they want to spend 1500 in aftermarket parts on it, and another 1k in labor... When a beefier transmission exists already. You can make anything better. You can make a POS 85 Sunbird run 10's if you want. If money doesn't matter to you, it's just a matter of spending some. 500 dollar donor trans versus 3x that... It's not a contest if you can physically fit it.
If I am going to pay anything over 2k I'm buying a Dog Box or something likewise. Thanks for educating the masses. As they say you can take a camel to the river. But you can't make em drink.
The built 4l60 behind my stock LS1 had an issue shifting into 3rd at wide open throttle. When I put the new LS3 that makes double the power I didn't even consider a 4l60. Best decision ever. It's great knowing the trans will shift and hold up under the abuse she gets. drove 80 miles to the track, went 10.80s and drove home with no issue. 4l80 is the only way to go.
I have a cammed 5.3/60e that I swapped in my regal . After doin a couple fun runs the 60e has delayed shifting 1-2 , no overdrive . So I change out ab solenoids , add Corvette’s servo . Still no fix on 1-2 delay shift . And now I’m doin the pinless accumulater piston & 3-2 shifter valve . Hopefully that fixes it so I can remove and sell . I got a sexy t56 6speed waiting to be swapped in
I dont care what other people has to say when it sounds negative or perhaps insulting. All I know is that I bought a 2500 silverado 2WD with a 4l80e tranny. It was the perfect swap to fit my 66 lemans convertible. I just finished my Holley terminator X Max on it and I am getting 3.90 gears installed. Once done, I am happy and ready to drive when ever and to where ever. Reliability is my goal, not racing or showing off. I am glad this video was made because it does make sense.
I recently just put a cam in my 5.3 and did the whole valve train, nothing special really just wanted a bit more power, I got a 1999 Chevy 1500 4x4 and stuck with 60 mainly because I won’t be making crazy power prolly nothing over 350 to the wheels and that’s good for me but anything more and I would have got a 80. I beat the living shit out of this trans and it just won’t die I knew the guy who built it and said have it and I have!! Buddy’s of mine have put TONES of these in stock 5.3s and 4.3s and they just died, I killed my stock one 2 days after I bought the truck but it had lived it’s live at 300k but so far after 6 months of brutal abuse on this trans I would recommend it if your JUST doing a cam that’s it. That’s just my person experiences but everyone knows that the 80 is without a doubt the best case in all applications.
4l60e's have treated me well my 98 Z71 Silverado has 341 000km on it and there's always a load in the box and I've had as much as 13 700lbs behind the truck before and that 4l60e has never bin touched has never let me down I have no idea why people diss them I've owned many 4l60s they have all served me well. I will point out I'm 28 years old I don't bag drive my truck when I need the feel for speed or a rush that's when I dig out my CRF 450R. My truck has stock size tires no stupid mods other then 3" dual exhaust and cowl hood. No tunes no cams no blower's so on so forth. I just drive them and maintain them took my last 4l60e till almost half million km (km not miles im In Canada ) before she lost the third forth clutch pack's. The truck was a 1994 Silverado 2wd ecsb 5.7tbi.
Yes. 60's work great under normal/light, towing/hauling. All these rants are pointed towards people who increase hp in there car/truck then burn up the trans shortly there after. They then complain about how terrible they are. People just don't understand that a stock trans is designed for stock use. Nothing else
@@jsee2385 That's right. And fuck used transmissions they buy these used worn out transmission get 10 000km out of them then they blow and then the guys like piece of shit what a piece of shit trans even though the guy himself is a piece of shit dumbass. I like my 4l60e's personally there cheap to buy there plentiful and cheap to rebuild once mine goes I'm going to rebuild it myself with the strongest replacement parts available and I'll take it another half a million km.
The 60s work fine in the vetts, factory rated at 450hp. Sure the 80s will be stronger but I've had no problems with 60s on stock motors, the v6 ones just have a lower 1st gear, but it's the same other than that.
@@joedirt3820 hell my 4l60s have treated me well in all my 88-98 trucks my 98 Z71 Silverado 4l60 has a ton of km on it still works like new and it tows and hauls regularly
He’s right!!! I have a 4l60e built. Circle d torque converter, 2800 stall, corvette servo, shift kit, heavy duty flex plate on a 01 ws6, its a mild build but that 4l80 is better....
I have an 05 gto with the 4l65e that somebody had rebuilt and upgraded at 80k miles, car has 133k miles. When it does eventually go out, I’ll either upgrade to a 4l80 or a 6l80. I don’t anticipate it going out anytime soon as I don’t dog on it all the time, so it’ll hopefully be a couple years before I do the swap
I had my 4L70 built and bullet proofed so they say but I swear I’ll never use a 4L60 or 700 ever again. I’m tired of messing with transmissions in my trucks.
The monster stuff made my day 😂 work at a local shop to monster and I pull out so many of their trashed trans out of stock trucks and hot rods can’t stand them, 4L80 if you keep it cool and waterless it will hold reason they will shove them behind a 2500 6.0 with a towing cap of a duramax
If you upgrade all the hard parts in a 60 they hold up pretty well.... But it is pretty expensive lol My 60e puts up with 150 shot nitrous launches on et street r’s in a 5000lbs truck.... 🤷♂️
After liquifying 2 Monster 700r4s I put a 4L80e with 3200 stall converter in my 69 Chevelle with crate 572. Putting right at 603hp to the ground. Smooth as a babies butt..
I had an 01 Silverado with the 4.8 making under 300 hp and the 4L60 could barely handle that power without skipping gears and not going into certain gears. Do you really think it's going to be able to handle a 1000+hp build? Jesus Christ, I hated that slush box, I'm glad somebody made this video for people like me who don't study transmissions as much. When I LS swap my Cheyenne, it's either getting a 4L80 or a TKO-500 (it's already a manual truck SM-465 gearbox).
In defense of the 4L60E performance pack basically a 4L65E in my 2002 Camaro, its got 105 thousand hard miles on it and still bangs gears like a champ. They are rated from GM for 380HP max. that means 380 and less guys, not 400.. not 450hp... 380 at the max lol. and it does that just fine, honestly for what its rated for 380hp its a great tranny my only complaint is the shifts are too soft in them, you need a shift kit... its 100% required. get a god dam shit kit. lol NOW my point of this comment was only to say for a 380hp and LESS application the 4L60E performance pack tranny and 4L65E are great, BUT if you plan on going over 4 hundo then get a 4L80 its the same price... literally the same price. I personally don't want an automatic at all, I will be tearing out a majestic 4L60E that actually works perfect and putting in a T56 manual. Because I don't give a flying fuck about drag times I care about having fun and being able to have 100% control over what gear I'm in and having 6 of them to choose from. That being said don't let people scare you into thinking a 4L60 is junk, if you have something like a 350 v8 putting out maybe 280horse power a 4L60 can and WILL handle it just fine with a corvette servo/shift kit. plus a better torque converter helps too, I have a 3000 stall currently ( for reference) I'm just saying if you have the choice go with a 4L80, if you don't, then use the 4L60, it'll be FINE.
Another thing to note is your car weight. A truck @ 380whp with the added weight probably would shell it. Weight makes a huge difference, we can put down over 300whp on little 4 cylinder autos but the car weighs almost nothing. That's why the 4l80 is so much better, it's built to be under huge trucks. I'm not trying to dis what you are saying but there is more involved to longevity of the 4L60 than WHP alone.
I just spend $1000 building my 4L60 but it’s in my 4x4 obs and I need it back on the road ASAP.I would love to have the 4L80 but I wasn’t sure how extensive it would be to get it all together etc
You asked, what transmission should you run with your LSswap. What kind of motor is an LSswap? Wouldn't it be, what transmission to run with your LS not LSswap? LS swap is a verb isnt it?
I grew up farming we pulled 20 foot forige boxes on the farm every summer at 9000 pounds empty and between 20000 and 50000 full I bought that truck from my dad sold it with 276000 miles 4l60e no problems all original motor trans and diffs it was a 1995 Silverado extended cab but if 50 thousand pounds on the scale isn't good enough for a half tun trans you don't belong on the road
Ya I agree I rebuilt my 60e for 1600 hd clutch plate yadayada it's in 96 Chevy lifted 35.12.5.18 itsgot 1000 miles on it and I can tell it's gonna blow again ya I tow with it u got a link that can tell me how to swap a 80 e in it think just tail shaft it's 96 Silverado k2500 5.7 vortec good video!!!
The 60e can be built to handle 700+ hp. The 80e is not exactly unbreakable, but it is tougher, for sure. Making an 80e fit into your vehicle can take some chop-work, too.
Before I even watched this I was thinking 4L80E since it is the step up from 4L60E. why would you not go with the better option is beyond me? Still people do it though!
I always laugh when I talk to someone building a hot rod and they brag about how they are going to use a 4l60 or 700r4 and I warn them that for what they are building they will not last and every time they doubt me, well usually about 2 months later when they get their car going I will ask them how well did that trans work out and every single time they will either say "you were right that thing went bad so quick" or they will say "the guy who built the trans sucked it's not the transmissions fault" and they will live in denial. Everyone I knew who went from a th350 or 400 to a 700r4 will always end up going back to the 3 speed when the 700r4 inevitably breaks. I wish that the 4l60s and 700r4s were good because they are small for an overdrive trans and used ones are easy to find. But it has been proven thousands of times over and over again that will not last in any performance application. If you are determined to use an automatic just stick with a th350 or th400 or if you need/ really want over drive do a 4l80 swap or if your rich get a gear vendors unit for a th400. The only half way decent 700r4 I ever seen was a buddy of mine spent around $4000 for a gear star fully built 700 and after about 3 years of hard driving it blew up again. And the only half decent 4l60 I have ever seen is a buddy of mine bought a turbo Silverado that has some "built" 4l60 in it with a really expensive yank converter and he has been driving it for about 2 years now and it still is working but if you make a hard pass or try to launch it the tranny shifts really weird and sometimes it will slip really bad under load and sometimes it will shift insanely hard and others really slippery. I personally dont trust it and it's only a matter of time before it completely gives up the gusto. People just dont want to listen when people who have first hand experience with this stuff tell them to stay away from the 700r4s and 4l60 but they all decide to learn the hard way and it always costs them in the long run.
There are less than a handful of 4l60e builders in the country that can build a 4l60e right. But cost wise it's not in the same ball park as a 4l80e. The downside is the 4l80 is not a direct swap into some vehicles, without a bfh. Rpm is overpriced for 4l60e. Another shop in Maryland. Cahall performance transmissions. Very good 4l60e builder and decent prices. Check the site.
Yeah there are people out there who can build them, I can build one, I know the parts it takes. I also know what they cost, and man that could buy a couple 4L80s However, like C5 cars, etc some just can't swap that easy, and that sucks.
What about 6L80's I'd like a few more gears, but I haven't made the LS leap yet, I have a 11:1 385 stroker waiting for something to mate it to, the t-5 would be a waste of time even trying it, I haven't found a deal on a t-56 yet, so as much as I HATE IT!! I guess I'll go with a auto! I'd like around 2500-3k stall, its not a strip car at all, more of a road race vibe, I would like to find a 4.8 or 5.3, with a little boost, I don't think I'd even fool with the 10 speed trans, what the hey you going do with 10 gears, and lockup converter??? I'm guessing the 6 or 8 is plenty if it will handle power!! I belive I'll subscribe, I can use LS advise, I don't have $$ to waste,
I subbed just because I Appriciate how spot on JR just slays the snot out of us for the stupid decisions we've made and hard earned money we have all wasted as a result. He's mad for us as much as he is at us! Rock on JR!
@@renaissanceman7145 no im in Texas but what is cheap if you dont mind me asking and i believe i can use my transfercase I just need an input shaft for the 80 for my transfercase
@@james10739 Why am I selling cheap? Because long story but, don't need, in the way, can't use, little invested and needs to go. I have what I need in the truck, 2WD 4l80e.
I'd love to do a 80e swap, but I don't like the 1st gear ratio it has. 3.06 for a 60e vs 2.48 for an 80e. Now if anyone knows if a company offers built 80e's that have a 1st ratio closer to 3.06 I'd jump on it. Changing gear rations in my differentials is a task. The rear I know everyone will say is a piece of cake but I got 4x4 so I'd have to do that too and the front diff I got isn't a piece of cake like a rear end. I got 4.10s not really looking to jump higher than that... not trying to be banging 3k rpms at 70 on the highway lol.
I totally understand your viewpoint and agree that for cars with a front mounted transmission you should go with a 4l80e over a 4l60e, Although I do not think that your logic applies to all situations more specifically the corvette. Yes you can swap a 4l80e into a c5 or c6 corvette but it cost a significant amount of money, fabrication and time even with a $500 junkyard 4l80e. Yes the 4l60e is a shit transmission but it is not worth the 7k-25k that you have to spend on a 4l80e and fabrication UNLESS you are going for something like 8s and are making over 750 horsepower. In all other cases I feel that your argument is completely valid, yes you should go with a 4l80e when it is plausible.
There are for sure certain situations where you're just stuck with whatever. But there are a lot more where people aren't, but somehow talk themselves into a stage eleventy 4L60 for 5x the cost of an 80 swap lol
I 100% agree! I've had 2 4l60's and then a upgraded 4l65 with extra clutches and all the trick stuff, in a s10 6.0 with heads and a cam basically. It lasted about 2 years with good trans temps.
Everything that was bought, was bought from Dana at I believe Performance Automatic in CA, but I can't remember the name of his company for sure.The valvebody was done by him. You send it in, and he checks it, repairs whatever it needs, and sets up the hole sizing. As for what failed, it's what always fails in these, the 2-3 clutch pack. The pressure was checked both directly after install, and a month or so after, and was told it was great. My 4l80, just keeps taking it. I probably should change the fluid in it at this point. Never had to even think about that with a 60.
My free LQ9 was matched with a 4l70e, from what I've read and seen when I went through it was it has better internals and the 5 pinion planetary. Being that it was free its what I will run as I'm not going to beat on it and only doing a sloppy stage 2 camshaft with headers and tune. I will be installing it in my 64 impala ss for just a cruiser. If anyone has input on the 4l70e please leave a comment, good, bad or whatever lol
The 4L70 is, like you said, a beefed up 60. I consider them the same thing really for all intents and purposes. If you give them the beans, they'll still break like a 60. In an Impala, as a cruiser, with an NA engine with a cam, it'll probably live a long time though, I'd use it too.
I agree in every way that a 4l80e is superior to a 60e in every single way. But real talk I had never heard of so many 60e failures until I stepped foot on the internet. I had a Manifold pressure switch failure in one and stripped a stator shaft on another. That's the only 2 issues I recall myself having. Everyones welcome to leave the "because your shits not fast enough to break them" reply that's perfectly fine. I know my shits not fast. My point is I had never heard 60e horror stories until the internet. I've got one right now that I pulled from a pick n pull with 230k+ on it. Cooler, vette servo, 3200 stall, and an HD2 were the only changes I've made. I've got a th400 on standby but so far I've put 1200 miles on it and 3, 13.xx second passes. And truth be told if I had never stepped foot on the internet I would've never thought twice about breaking it.
I think some people are coming here expecting just a comparison of the trans on regular cars and thats where they will disagree. For example, I had my 4l60e "built"...and by built, I just mean a stage 1 at a builder that only builds GM transmissions. It was only $800 also. (Yeah, the price is cheap, but this guy cranks out these transmissions and has very low overhead. The guy only had 5 star reviews everywhere I go).Couldn't be more than happy. I've hauled up and down mountains with it and have it in my truck that hauls quite a bit at times. About 7k lbs usually. With that said, I have a bigger trans cooler, I don't run the truck hard and the engine is stock. If I had a high power engine or towed several times a week, I wouldn't even consider the 60.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Yep! I'm looking at towing closer to 10k a few times a year (duramax on a trailer) and debating whether I should upgrade my truck overall. It's hard to get rid of a good old truck (5.3 1500) that you trust. I'm more worried about the suspension than the trans......all while I have a 6.0 2500hd that I'm selling lol
Well dam, I just stumbled upon this video, and I am at the point I need to get OD for my mild drive to the track, dial in foot brake s10 Blazer and 78 Malibu, and 79 Monza. Talking 300-400hp. I am retired so I need my stuff to last, if it's broke I can't win any money. I am going to rethink attempting to go 4l60e route now. If my street cars were making 500+ hp, they would be race only, no need for OD. Maybe a Gear Vendors OD add on. Got me thinking now....
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Well thanks for that much needed suggestion. I got glides, 400's, stock and stepped up 350's, a tci street fighter 350 with 20 years, 100K+miles in 4 different cars, with 5k+ passes at the strip. Any one of those with a GV would drop my highway rpm down to low 2k's where I need it. My crown jewel is the 4l80e out of my 99 2500 G-van, just waiting for a car to put it in after rebuild. Going to scrap the 4l60e plans and think GV's and more 4l80e's, thanks. Looking for a good trans guy, not opposed to travel, and I will pay for good trans-advice from a bad ass transmission man, if interested. mf
Monster sends you a mock up transmission basically. You need to completely tear it back down and actually make it right but they atleast send you everything together lol you get what you pay for though.If you can’t build your own,I would recommend a local salvage yard before I would buy from them.
bored me to death
Thanks for watching!
I have a twin turbo 4wd Silverado 6.0L with the 4L65E making 940hp.... 5 years strong... transmission is perfect. I just don't start it up or drive it.... Will last me forever
I swear you are making at least 1200, maybe 1500 horsies.
Why not exaggerate a bit over shots. I'm game!
Hilarious lol.
Had us in the first have not gunna lie
nailed it, unlike your skinny pedal
😂
So glad I went with a 80e with a shift kit on my build after watching this
Why are all these companies rating there transmissions on HP? Transmissions break because of torque.
You answered your own question there,i mean GM even rates them by torque
Because that’s how they sucker you in with the HP
@@nofsgiven3855 Right on !! HP just keeps torque @ higher RPM...HP dont move shit...
Thanks for sharing and also for saving me a lot of money to rebuild my 4l60e. Ill go pick up an 80e over the winter.
Yeah, 4l60s are still an easy sale, put it towards the 80 lol
I have a 5000 pound Blazer with a twin turbo 555 BBC that makes 1340 to the wheels and a built 4L80E works great , I don’t care that a 400 with a gear vendors which used to be in it is quicker down the track I like the 3000 ish lock up converter I have and being able to program the rpm I want it to shift it , I am using the ez tcu and have the hand held mounted permanently to display rpm, speed , whether converter locked , voltage, tranny temp , tps percentage , gear it’s in , and the bonus of having a manual mode where I have a toggle switch to shift it just like a manual valve body .
That was my question, how do you control it in a non computer car. Thanks
Good to know. I have a 1965 carryall that is getting some beef. Dana 80 rear, Super duty 60 front with Janz engineering HP 70 ring and pinion. Hope to keep it under 7000lbs. Got my turbos and headers now need $ to build a big block. I will need a stout transmission.
I blew apart a 4l60e on my supercharged 98 S-10 SS 4.3 making 470whp @ 30k. I also sheared the output shaft on my tune only 4.8 RCSB 4x4 Sierra with 33s. This video is all kinds of good advice.
EGGINFOOLS not to be an asshole, but how the hell do you have a supercharged 4.3 making 470 wheel???
@@NativeDescent Vortech sq2 kit at 15psi (one of the first to have the kit back in 99-00). Port and polished heads. Comp cam 270, meth injection, 2114 Edelbrock manifold MPFI conversion speed density tune with 411pcm. I don't have that setup anymore. The timing chain went. Eventually will be working on a twin turbo setup for about 800hp when the money is right. I have a lot of the parts, just gotta get a motor built to handle it.
I removed the THM375 (THM400 with longer tailshaft) in my 1990 454SS Truck. I built a 4L80E with heavy parts and installed in my truck. I used a Compushift electronic shifter. That was in 2006. Still running good. I installed a heavy duty cooler with fan for cooling up front.
I have a turbo 400 in my four wheel drive 2500 flatbed that I work and he does a great job almost completely indestructible
I had a built 60e built by Brinkley Transmission in Kinston NC about 5 years ago for my sb Silverado with a lq9, cammed, converter 9.5 inch, full exhaust, 3.73 gears. I paid right at 1550 for the rebuild and that thing worked flawless! I raced that truck any and everywhere and it never missed a beat!
I’m not a shop owner, but I do build a lot of performance transmissions for high power cars. I tell people that ask about a 4l60 build that you can buy every upgrade for the 60, it will still be weaker than a stock 4L80 with a shift kit. If you need more upgrades to a 60 than premium frictions and maybe a drive shell, you need a 4l80. If you can make a 4L80 fit, use it!!
I don't think you are very familiar with "every upgrade for the 60".
@@TAShannon1 the Sonnax smart shell? Aftermarket gearsets and shafts? I’m sure there are others, but that covers the majority of them.
Go back and read what I said. Or find someone who can read to do it for you. With all the high dollar upgrades, a good USED 4l80 is more durable than a 4l60, even with the high dollar upgrades. A 4l60 behind lots of power will always be a maintenance item. Who cares if a 4l60 is a couple hundredths quicker if it won’t make it the next round???
The ONLY way I’d ever recommend spending the money on high dollar upgrades for a 4l60 is if a 4L80 just won’t fit (Corvette with rear mounted transmission for example)
@mattrodgers4878 that's what im saying, 4l80 isn't always the best option. You can't fit a 4l80e into everything. Just because a transmission builder is building a 4l60e and spending the high dollar cash needed to get it up to par doesn't mean that they are ripping people off.
It's roughly 5k worth of parts on a fully built 4l60 which sucks to have to spend but If a 4l60e is built right by somebody who really knows what they're doing and not being unrealistic with the end goal then it is a viable option. Sometimes it is the only option.
Hard part upgrades is one thing. Getting everything to work together optimally is a symphony of part choice and valve body modification paired with the right vehicle for the right usage.
These are two completely different classes of transmissions. Yes the 4l80e is the boss, the goat, old faithful but definitely not going to be the best option every time against a 4l60
Until you launch a 80 and snap the input shaft. Next year there will be a 4l60 running high sevens in the quarter.
Great video! I had to give a big sigh of relief after watching this video! I'm getting ready to LS Swap my 75 Chevy Caprice Classic! Just bought an LQ9/4L80E Combo! Gonna beef the motor up a bit more but now I feel more at ease... Big shout out to the Driveway Engineer! I'm addicted to your videos! 👍
4l80e for me .I just found out with HD -3 transgo shift kit makes it full manual ! No computer no tps ! And lock up does work . What ever gear you put it in it will take off but I would advise to start in first and run thru your gears . You will have to run a deep pan to clear the valve body mod I'm building a 69 chevelle with 468 good balanced bottom and hydraulic roller. I think the transmission will work out for me. Thanks for sharing your videos!!
Stock 4l80e with 200k hard towing miles will handle 600 ft lbs for at least 100 1/4 mile passes its by far the best option
Thank you for the information I really didn't want to hear. I just dropped almost 2k on building a 4L65 that can't even stand up to my mild 5.3. I guess you never get too old to get schooled. Now to find a Turbo 400 or a Tremec TKO
Those are both great choices, you'll be happier
I found several in the salvage yard on the 40% off days. Some reason people seem to skip over these, can usually find several on a yard trip.
That's where mine came from lol, 125 bucks
I need one! Houston, TX
Houston, TX
I was gonna keep the 60 in my swap but I’m glad you opened my eyes.
I just picked up a 6.0 yesterday and been looking for a 4l80e I was wondering about the years.. you answered my question. Thank you
P.s seems to me then 4l80’s way cheaper in Michigan than Chicagoland area. I’ll be in three river,mi next week so hope I find one that way.
They're probably cheaper in Wisconsin too.
We have more trucks getting destroyed in wrecks and by weather, you have more people building serious street cars
I have PTSD just looking at a 4L60e. I've been through about 5 "end all be all" builds and eventually swapped to a TH400. I can live without the overdrive vs spending thousands of dollars every year on a 4L60e.
Buy an overdrive adapter for the th400. Next.
how much did you spend on these "end all be all" 4l60's?
What's wrong with a 4l60e. My 93 s-10 2.5 has over 300,000 miles on it. Works ok,no slippage
@williammurray8060 to be fair this comment is very old, and the car I was running I would track about every weekend and beat on. As a daily driver I don't see any issues with them. But for performance I don't care much for them.
Thanks for the lesson teacher, good stuff ,
Literally every junk yard has some trashed trucks with 4L80E’s. Get one and rebuild it or have it rebuilt
Hi JR, great video, wish you would have discussed the difference in 1st gear between teh 4L80 and 60E. Appreciate the upload!
Mmm men. Im a rebuilt my blazer v6. With almost beat up clutches. With reheat toque converter. And I haul trailer with carpet and tile. Heavy tile carpet. And has metal residuals. I just change filtre when it doesnt shift
Would love to hear your thoughts on the best transmission to use on a 4x4! Love all the vids, you seem like the most honest and knowledgable guy I have listened to on RUclips.
I guess it depends on alot of factors.
I like the 4l80 in a 4x4, but having to get new shafts and stuff, I understand why people resist swapping in that instance.
It's kind of why I just buy 3/4 4x4's to start with myself.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer also interested in 4 by 4 trans. How much hp would the 4l60 support ? Not running it hard since it come in 2nd gen tahoes and I’m sure a lot more? But do have bigger tires and rims
Great info..I’ll head to the yard for a 4l80e
5 years silverado 2003 4x4 with 5.3 sc, 6.0 sc and 6.0 turbo on 4L60 two times change some disc and one time the belt on a 11.60 best et on 1/4 mille track and every weekend race on 1/8, 100 ydr dirt or sand, one on a million 4l60.
I wanna thank you for sharing you knowledge
It has save me lots of money
Keep making great vids 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Sometimes the other mods that are necessary for upgrading to 4L80E, perhaps fitment issues, relocating trans mount brackets, new or modifying the old driveshaft, might turn some people off from the upgrade because it's definitely not a direct swap and they may not want modification for such things. Just depends on what your goals are and how much you want to waste on a hopped up 4L60/65/70E vs going with a relatively stock 4L80E
Thanks for being the only reasonable person on this thread/video with common sense.
@@TAShannon1 I try to stick with lamens logic ... but i can get carried away. ;)
I drilled new holes into the frame to move the Transmission Crossmember back nearly 10 inches from the stock TH350 to a late 4L80E/85E .
Ive been through 5 4l60e's. 3 of them within a span of 8 months. Had all the bells and whistles. Roasting em with a little 4.8 with a baby bumstick. Good video
Yeah, and everyone online will still blame the builder 😂
lol... baby bumstick
Hell no, a stock 60E should be able handle that. I'd be suspecting your tune.
@@pwilly7 say what you want, I've cooked them. Stock. Built. You name it. Lot of weight to move, even for a single cab.
I’m building a 69 Chevelle with 468 . Glad you shared this information ℹ️ I know the 4l80e will be in it with a TCI controller. I will see occasional drag strip duty!! Thanks for sharing!!!
I have a 700R I was gonna build but not now!!
Sell it, put the cash towards an 80
I have been building Heavy Duty and Performance automatics since late 1977. The 4L80E can be done somewhat cheaply (not rebuilding it), if you find a good core or a running one with little to no clutch/band material in the pan (oil still red, no water or black oil). Install the TransGo HD2 along with two TH200 low/reverse support cup seals, to seal the case to center support. This eliminates the leaks here in the third, reverse circuit. Use the Circle D 11" or a reliable smaller diameter torque converter of your choice. Do not disable the accumulators, keep the feed holes matched to what you have as far as horsepower, torque converter diameter and stall, rear end gear ratio, weight of vehicle, and how you drive. These can take 750 FWHP - 900FWHP and live. Once you get past 900FWHP, then additional upgrades are most likely needed. The 1999 & later cores are best, as they come with the the Tubulator steels (lessens clutch drag), wider Hi-Energy front band, 34 element intermediate sprag, Borg Warner Hi-Energy clutches, etc. I have been saying this to people for many years now. However, I do specialize in 4L60E's. The 4l60E LS series can be made to hold up to 750 FWHP, and last. Mine do come with a two year warranty when using the right torque converter. Most people want to use the 4L60E, and I have been able to make this work successfully for many years. Dana @ Pro Built Automatics.
What is the cost of your 750hp 60e build if I ship you a good core
Significantly more than the cost of a junkyard 4l80 🤣
@@TheDrivewayEngineerall up until you actually launch one and immediately snap the input shaft.
Have a 4l85e in my tahoe after blowing 2 60e trans with a cammed 6.0 My 85e just breezes thru shifts that would make my 60e feel like it was going to shatter. The transgo kit works well but Sonnax makes a relief valve so you don't have to drill the valvebody like transgo recommends. Transgo's pressure relief could potentially cause you to burn down your trans if it sticks open.
I wouldn't use the Transgo pump stuff at all.
I am looking to get a built trans to go behind an old school hemi. Given that an adapter for big block Mopar to the 4L60/80 is $850 I appreciate your insight and no nonsense approach.
Oh man, that would be a catastrophe lol.
Is it a bell to replace the Chevy bell? Or an adapter?
Because an adapter would let you use a 4l80, which would be fine.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Ha ha yes thanks trying to figure out 4spd-auto options that can deal with the torque. Otherwise, will just build an expensive 727 and crossing fingers.
I finally bit the bullet and getting a 4L80E myself. My local performance shop told me "if it's built right", too.
It just can't be built right, I don't care if you use the best Transmission builder, buy "Sonnax this" and "Smart shell" that, etc. If it holds up a year for me, that's being lucky. I start having shift problems long before that.
On the street, if I don't feather it, even with Mickey Thompson ET Street SS's (27.5 and 28" tires and 3.73 rear) the car will spin through 1st and 2nd and most of the way through 3rd. I replaced my 10 Bolt rear years ago and stopped breaking rear ends. The 4L60E just can't do it. I can't even finish locking my tune in with WOTs before the transmission is slipping or breaking something.
Bye 4L60E.
Got a 2000 Gmc 3500 work truck and not a dully ,owned since new and just keeping it tuned and full of fresh oils keeps me running down the freeway at 80 mpg with 6000 pound of load comfortable ride with 30 2X4 studs on the lumber rack and a 4L80E Allison tranny included!
I got a 97 1 ton 454 80E brought it in 2002 with 78 thousand pulled a 38 foot 5th wheel all over the mid west to ND, SD, NE, WY, MT, ID, UT, NM, AZ for ten years now has a 160 thousand and still pulls a new one 900 miles to WY every year no problems.
oh god, wish I found this vid before i replace the 4l60e in the truck i bought last year, thing has been nothing but problems
so stay with the 4l60e?
My ls swaped c10 and turbo single cab both have 4l80.
I would never use a 60e on anything with upgrades
You had to throw in my 93 2wd 4.3 4l60!? Lmao, thanks man made my day! Thanks for the video. You're right get yourself a Th350 or 400 for your v8 swap I've had both in my v8 s10s I've built over the years.
I can't find a 2wd 4l80e near me. This may turn into a lengthy search.
My local transmission shop he can swap the rear housing and output shaft for another $125.
Thks good video i like what you said but I have payed to have the 4l60 rebuild and the up grades its a stock 5.3 in my 1974 surberbon I had bought the howlle wiring harness ill do the 4l80 next on thks
4L60E in a 1998 Yukon with 268,000 on it. Still going strong. I even tow a 19 foot boat with it on occasion. It's on it's 2nd 350 though.
They do alright with stock power, and mild use.
Interesting thought about the 700r4. I put a 4.8 in my K5 Blazer and kept my 700r4 with no adapter from Bowtie Overdrive, I made it for free with a welder and some scrap steel. I might post a video on it. The engine isn't making any power over stock
That would be helpful to people. I totally understand wanting to keep what you have.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Here's my take on the 700r4 behind an LR4: ruclips.net/video/haSv8OzD0rM/видео.html
I've melted my 4L60E bumping the boost (from 5 PSI to 11 PSI)of my Magnusom Supercharged 2006 Tahoe with a iron block but 799 heads BTR Truck Norris 5.3, and going 4L80E, no doubt. Great, simple, straight to the point video.
let the tears of the 60e begin lmao
i'd much rather have a 4L80E, but its a massive pain in the ass to convert a 4L60E 4x4 truck to fit the 4L80E
"Go straight to hell" lmfao YES !!!! LOL
Legit, subscribed when I heard tht 😂😂😂
you can pick up a 60e with no problem i got the jack out when i got the 80e to put back in lol
I blew a 4L60E and a 65E up behind a 5.7 in an Express van before swapping a junkyard 4L85E into it. Beat the crap out of it and still going strong.
Going from a 60e to a 80e/ 85e what do you have to do I'm thinking about doing this in my 04 yukon do I have to worry about computer issues
Im glad you brought up S10 in your video. I have 4.3L in mine and I cruise. Nothing fancy power wise but I'm thinking about doing a 4L80E swap into it later on when the 4L60E goes out. I work construction and this truck works perfectly for what I use it for. I love the 4.3L, solid motors but I don't trust 4L60E transmissions.
88 1500 Chevy 400hp only had about 15-16 700r4 and 4l60....... Great advice!!!!!!!!!!
Give me that legendary TH400! I gotta a stock th400 behind a 496 big block with 565hp/600tq in a 68 Impala, I beat the hell out it, and she's still shifting like butter. Crazy thing is it the original transmission from 1968👍👍 4l80e are beast transmissions just costly.
A 4L80 is just a 400 with OD
Th 400 best transmission
Well I'm doing well on my current 4L60E, behind a stock 99 LS1 in a 2700 lb car with a 3600 yank stall. After 2 went out.... 1st was my fault (forgot to fill it after the swap) 2nd they (performa-)built a POS that went out in 1500 miles..... Then a local trans guy rebuilt that( fixed the problem), and it's been in the car ~8 years. Next one will be an 80 with a similar stall.
I think there's a lot of folks here that are misunderstanding the 4L60 transmission, or any "factory" GM trans. In the R&D world of automotive, there's a cost that's always monitored. If you've read the headlines on the Ford ZF transmission, then you'd fully understand. The 4L series transmissions ALL have their limitations. When these transmissions are designed and built, their done so with driver comfort in mind. Every manufacturer does it. Every transmission is only designed to last through warranty. Automatics by their very design will not last forever. They will wear out eventually. Some last longer than others, it all depends on the driver habits. I've never replaced a 4L series transmission, in any vehicle I own. Neglect and abuse is what kills transmissions. Is a 4L80 the way to go in a performance application, sure! Will the 4L60 survive in a performance application, yes it will. In a mild performance application, the 4L 60 is a great transmission. If someone builds a 1000+ hp car, then the 4l60 is probably not the best choice for a transmission. The 4L80 isn't a good choice either. At WOT throttle, the 4th gear isnt used anyways. The 4L60 has limitations! If it didn't, then those transmissions would've been used in everything. The 4L60 was used in many GM car and trucks. GM would've stopped using them if they were problematic a long time ago. I saw a post about someone complaining about a 4l60 going out after mounting 33" tires and wheels. Are you aware of how heavy those wheels are? I have a set of 35" tires from a Silverado that had a blown transmission. Guess what, that trans was fried! The failure was due to the excessive TCC slippage. The wheels are heavy, and it takes a lot of horsepower to turn them. There's a lot of rotational mass that the trans has to get turning, on top of getting the vehicle up to speed. The excessive slippage caused the TCC to fail and send garbage all through the trans, consequently destroying the trans. Again neglect and abuse. You can't put gobs of hp/torque through a stock transmission, blow it up, and complain about it. Remember neglect and abuse! These transmissions were made for stock applications. 33" tires are not stock. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest with anyone, but I just don't get why people are complaining about the 4L60. It was never intended to be a performance transmission. Quit calling the 4L60 transmission garbage, when failures 99% of the time are caused by the owner.
The instant the electronic protections come off a 4l60 it's on borrowed time, period.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Ok like I posted before, I'm not trying to start an argument here. Your claim of electronic protection removal puts it on borrowed time is based on what evidence? What protections are you referring too? I'm very close with these series of transmissions. I've been around them, inspected them, rebuilt them, and destroyed them since 1992. I think you made a decent video, but you praised the 4L80. In reality, it can only hold about 80 ft lbs more torque that the 4L60. If you know the common failure points of the 4L series transmissions, then you can actually make these transmissions withstand more. I've been a mechanical engineer for going on 40 years, with also a degree in metallurgy. If you take a thin piece of metal, flex it back and forth, eventually it's going to break. Flexing a piece of metal beyond it's serviceable limit causes microscopic stress cracks. Those cracks eventually propagate out from the original starting point, until the cracks meet. What do you think happens inside a transmission. Neglect and abuse will push the design limits of the internal components, until a failure occurs. I'm sorry, but you can't fault the 4L60 for design. Again your video wasn't bad at all, but it was very one-sided. You praised the 4L80 as being almost bulletproof, when they are not. It really wasn't a bad video.
@@demontech06 all I'm saying in the video is if you have a choice, and it's a performance application, start with the 80.
In reality with no type of power reduction on shifts, it's capable of 800 ft/lbs on the input shaft before failure.
A 60 is capable of about 2 dozen WOT 2-3 shifts at the 400 ft/lb level before clutch pack failure.
I'm not interested in, or talking about some soccer mom's stock Tahoe or grand dad's Silverado.
The transmissions work fine for what they were intended to do, give a deep first gear to under powered pigs of trucks and SUV's so they feel powerful, and give them a deep overdrive to maintain mid teen fuel economy.
They were never intended for the power people attempt to shove through them today, any fool can remove every shred of spark retard, fuel reduction, and reduce shift times to 0 on a 4l60 behind an LS with a cam and a 200 shot making 500 HP, and it will fail.
Then they want to spend 1500 in aftermarket parts on it, and another 1k in labor... When a beefier transmission exists already.
You can make anything better. You can make a POS 85 Sunbird run 10's if you want. If money doesn't matter to you, it's just a matter of spending some.
500 dollar donor trans versus 3x that... It's not a contest if you can physically fit it.
After reading two years of material on this issue you sir said it best, it's not the transmissions fault, neglect and abuse.
If I am going to pay anything over 2k I'm buying a Dog Box or something likewise. Thanks for educating the masses. As they say you can take a camel to the river. But you can't make em drink.
The rpm drop on the 1-2 shift in a 60 is unacceptable for me. Especially with newer automatics having between 6-10 gears.
The rpm drop on an 80 is even more lol
Sonnax makes a front planetary that gets them a bit closer together albeit almost $1000 for the part
Also when you get into the higher end converters the 60s and 80s are the same cost.
Spot on once again. These videos help us to pick the best bang for the buck combos.
Thank you for this wonderful information... very helpful for me
The built 4l60 behind my stock LS1 had an issue shifting into 3rd at wide open throttle. When I put the new LS3 that makes double the power I didn't even consider a 4l60. Best decision ever. It's great knowing the trans will shift and hold up under the abuse she gets. drove 80 miles to the track, went 10.80s and drove home with no issue. 4l80 is the only way to go.
I have a cammed 5.3/60e that I swapped in my regal . After doin a couple fun runs the 60e has delayed shifting 1-2 , no overdrive .
So I change out ab solenoids , add Corvette’s servo . Still no fix on 1-2 delay shift . And now I’m doin the pinless accumulater piston & 3-2 shifter valve . Hopefully that fixes it so I can remove and sell . I got a sexy t56 6speed waiting to be swapped in
Good luck with that.
The Driveway Engineer just got done . Still have a 1-2 shift delay . I don’t know what else it could be
I dont care what other people has to say when it sounds negative or perhaps insulting. All I know is that I bought a 2500 silverado 2WD with a 4l80e tranny. It was the perfect swap to fit my 66 lemans convertible. I just finished my Holley terminator X Max on it and I am getting 3.90 gears installed. Once done, I am happy and ready to drive when ever and to where ever. Reliability is my goal, not racing or showing off. I am glad this video was made because it does make sense.
I recently just put a cam in my 5.3 and did the whole valve train, nothing special really just wanted a bit more power, I got a 1999 Chevy 1500 4x4 and stuck with 60 mainly because I won’t be making crazy power prolly nothing over 350 to the wheels and that’s good for me but anything more and I would have got a 80. I beat the living shit out of this trans and it just won’t die I knew the guy who built it and said have it and I have!! Buddy’s of mine have put TONES of these in stock 5.3s and 4.3s and they just died, I killed my stock one 2 days after I bought the truck but it had lived it’s live at 300k but so far after 6 months of brutal abuse on this trans I would recommend it if your JUST doing a cam that’s it. That’s just my person experiences but everyone knows that the 80 is without a doubt the best case in all applications.
4l60e's have treated me well my 98 Z71 Silverado has 341 000km on it and there's always a load in the box and I've had as much as 13 700lbs behind the truck before and that 4l60e has never bin touched has never let me down I have no idea why people diss them I've owned many 4l60s they have all served me well. I will point out I'm 28 years old I don't bag drive my truck when I need the feel for speed or a rush that's when I dig out my CRF 450R. My truck has stock size tires no stupid mods other then 3" dual exhaust and cowl hood. No tunes no cams no blower's so on so forth. I just drive them and maintain them took my last 4l60e till almost half million km (km not miles im In Canada ) before she lost the third forth clutch pack's. The truck was a 1994 Silverado 2wd ecsb 5.7tbi.
Yes. 60's work great under normal/light, towing/hauling. All these rants are pointed towards people who increase hp in there car/truck then burn up the trans shortly there after. They then complain about how terrible they are. People just don't understand that a stock trans is designed for stock use. Nothing else
@@jsee2385 That's right. And fuck used transmissions they buy these used worn out transmission get 10 000km out of them then they blow and then the guys like piece of shit what a piece of shit trans even though the guy himself is a piece of shit dumbass. I like my 4l60e's personally there cheap to buy there plentiful and cheap to rebuild once mine goes I'm going to rebuild it myself with the strongest replacement parts available and I'll take it another half a million km.
The 60s work fine in the vetts, factory rated at 450hp. Sure the 80s will be stronger but I've had no problems with 60s on stock motors, the v6 ones just have a lower 1st gear, but it's the same other than that.
@@joedirt3820 hell my 4l60s have treated me well in all my 88-98 trucks my 98 Z71 Silverado 4l60 has a ton of km on it still works like new and it tows and hauls regularly
He’s right!!! I have a 4l60e built. Circle d torque converter, 2800 stall, corvette servo, shift kit, heavy duty flex plate on a 01 ws6, its a mild build but that 4l80 is better....
I have an 05 gto with the 4l65e that somebody had rebuilt and upgraded at 80k miles, car has 133k miles. When it does eventually go out, I’ll either upgrade to a 4l80 or a 6l80. I don’t anticipate it going out anytime soon as I don’t dog on it all the time, so it’ll hopefully be a couple years before I do the swap
If you've removed the protections in the tune, the clock is ticking
I had my 4L70 built and bullet proofed so they say but I swear I’ll never use a 4L60 or 700 ever again. I’m tired of messing with transmissions in my trucks.
The monster stuff made my day 😂 work at a local shop to monster and I pull out so many of their trashed trans out of stock trucks and hot rods can’t stand them, 4L80 if you keep it cool and waterless it will hold reason they will shove them behind a 2500 6.0 with a towing cap of a duramax
J.P. Turtles Monster sucks !!
LS3 out of a 2012 grandsport I have the 80E stage 2 and my stall converter was about $950
If you upgrade all the hard parts in a 60 they hold up pretty well.... But it is pretty expensive lol
My 60e puts up with 150 shot nitrous launches on et street r’s in a 5000lbs truck.... 🤷♂️
I’m late in the game !
But I’m glad I found your video(s)
After watching this video I’m going with the 4l80
Thanks 👍🏼
After liquifying 2 Monster 700r4s I put a 4L80e with 3200 stall converter in my 69 Chevelle with crate 572. Putting right at 603hp to the ground. Smooth as a babies butt..
Man that sucks that Monster got you also.
Glad you're all set now
AWESOME my friend i learned a lot because i really didn't know the difference between the two so thanks again !!!!
I had an 01 Silverado with the 4.8 making under 300 hp and the 4L60 could barely handle that power without skipping gears and not going into certain gears. Do you really think it's going to be able to handle a 1000+hp build? Jesus Christ, I hated that slush box, I'm glad somebody made this video for people like me who don't study transmissions as much. When I LS swap my Cheyenne, it's either getting a 4L80 or a TKO-500 (it's already a manual truck SM-465 gearbox).
In defense of the 4L60E performance pack basically a 4L65E in my 2002 Camaro, its got 105 thousand hard miles on it and still bangs gears like a champ. They are rated from GM for 380HP max. that means 380 and less guys, not 400.. not 450hp... 380 at the max lol. and it does that just fine, honestly for what its rated for 380hp its a great tranny my only complaint is the shifts are too soft in them, you need a shift kit... its 100% required. get a god dam shit kit. lol NOW my point of this comment was only to say for a 380hp and LESS application the 4L60E performance pack tranny and 4L65E are great, BUT if you plan on going over 4 hundo then get a 4L80 its the same price... literally the same price. I personally don't want an automatic at all, I will be tearing out a majestic 4L60E that actually works perfect and putting in a T56 manual. Because I don't give a flying fuck about drag times I care about having fun and being able to have 100% control over what gear I'm in and having 6 of them to choose from. That being said don't let people scare you into thinking a 4L60 is junk, if you have something like a 350 v8 putting out maybe 280horse power a 4L60 can and WILL handle it just fine with a corvette servo/shift kit. plus a better torque converter helps too, I have a 3000 stall currently ( for reference) I'm just saying if you have the choice go with a 4L80, if you don't, then use the 4L60, it'll be FINE.
Thank you so much, your comments are by far the most reasonable, well articulated, informed, non critical. It helped me out the most, THANK YOU.
Another thing to note is your car weight. A truck @ 380whp with the added weight probably would shell it. Weight makes a huge difference, we can put down over 300whp on little 4 cylinder autos but the car weighs almost nothing. That's why the 4l80 is so much better, it's built to be under huge trucks. I'm not trying to dis what you are saying but there is more involved to longevity of the 4L60 than WHP alone.
I just spend $1000 building my 4L60 but it’s in my 4x4 obs and I need it back on the road ASAP.I would love to have the 4L80 but I wasn’t sure how extensive it would be to get it all together etc
You asked, what transmission should you run with your LSswap. What kind of motor is an LSswap? Wouldn't it be, what transmission to run with your LS not LSswap? LS swap is a verb isnt it?
Would love to swap out my 60 to an 80 in my Silverado but the swap is a nightmare. If I had a garage I would probably do it.
Not only is your content superb, but your commenters are also awesome.
I grew up farming we pulled 20 foot forige boxes on the farm every summer at 9000 pounds empty and between 20000 and 50000 full I bought that truck from my dad sold it with 276000 miles 4l60e no problems all original motor trans and diffs it was a 1995 Silverado extended cab but if 50 thousand pounds on the scale isn't good enough for a half tun trans you don't belong on the road
Ya I agree I rebuilt my 60e for 1600 hd clutch plate yadayada it's in 96 Chevy lifted 35.12.5.18 itsgot 1000 miles on it and I can tell it's gonna blow again ya I tow with it u got a link that can tell me how to swap a 80 e in it think just tail shaft it's 96 Silverado k2500 5.7 vortec good video!!!
The 60e can be built to handle 700+ hp. The 80e is not exactly unbreakable, but it is tougher, for sure. Making an 80e fit into your vehicle can take some chop-work, too.
For some chassis, an 80 isn't an option, and that sucks.
Before I even watched this I was thinking 4L80E since it is the step up from 4L60E. why would you not go with the better option is beyond me? Still people do it though!
Weight and gear ratios maybe. the 60's first is 3.06, whereas the 4l80 is a thm400 with an O/D gear ratio speaking.
I always laugh when I talk to someone building a hot rod and they brag about how they are going to use a 4l60 or 700r4 and I warn them that for what they are building they will not last and every time they doubt me, well usually about 2 months later when they get their car going I will ask them how well did that trans work out and every single time they will either say "you were right that thing went bad so quick" or they will say "the guy who built the trans sucked it's not the transmissions fault" and they will live in denial. Everyone I knew who went from a th350 or 400 to a 700r4 will always end up going back to the 3 speed when the 700r4 inevitably breaks. I wish that the 4l60s and 700r4s were good because they are small for an overdrive trans and used ones are easy to find. But it has been proven thousands of times over and over again that will not last in any performance application. If you are determined to use an automatic just stick with a th350 or th400 or if you need/ really want over drive do a 4l80 swap or if your rich get a gear vendors unit for a th400. The only half way decent 700r4 I ever seen was a buddy of mine spent around $4000 for a gear star fully built 700 and after about 3 years of hard driving it blew up again. And the only half decent 4l60 I have ever seen is a buddy of mine bought a turbo Silverado that has some "built" 4l60 in it with a really expensive yank converter and he has been driving it for about 2 years now and it still is working but if you make a hard pass or try to launch it the tranny shifts really weird and sometimes it will slip really bad under load and sometimes it will shift insanely hard and others really slippery. I personally dont trust it and it's only a matter of time before it completely gives up the gusto. People just dont want to listen when people who have first hand experience with this stuff tell them to stay away from the 700r4s and 4l60 but they all decide to learn the hard way and it always costs them in the long run.
There are less than a handful of 4l60e builders in the country that can build a 4l60e right. But cost wise it's not in the same ball park as a 4l80e. The downside is the 4l80 is not a direct swap into some vehicles, without a bfh. Rpm is overpriced for 4l60e. Another shop in Maryland. Cahall performance transmissions. Very good 4l60e builder and decent prices. Check the site.
Yeah there are people out there who can build them, I can build one, I know the parts it takes.
I also know what they cost, and man that could buy a couple 4L80s
However, like C5 cars, etc some just can't swap that easy, and that sucks.
What about 6L80's I'd like a few more gears, but I haven't made the LS leap yet, I have a 11:1 385 stroker waiting for something to mate it to, the t-5 would be a waste of time even trying it, I haven't found a deal on a t-56 yet, so as much as I HATE IT!! I guess I'll go with a auto! I'd like around 2500-3k stall, its not a strip car at all, more of a road race vibe, I would like to find a 4.8 or 5.3, with a little boost, I don't think I'd even fool with the 10 speed trans, what the hey you going do with 10 gears, and lockup converter??? I'm guessing the 6 or 8 is plenty if it will handle power!! I belive I'll subscribe, I can use LS advise, I don't have $$ to waste,
6L80's work well, but only with the newer Gen IV stuff.
I was thinking of putting a 6l80 in my trailblazer SS
I subbed just because I Appriciate how spot on JR just slays the snot out of us for the stupid decisions we've made and hard earned money we have all wasted as a result. He's mad for us as much as he is at us! Rock on JR!
Im working on going 4l80e on my 4wd silverado and i agree and have told people the same thing here on RUclips and they are like no its "fully built"
James Holbrook If you're anywhere close to Athens GA I have one for sale, cheap, no transfer case.
@@renaissanceman7145 no im in Texas but what is cheap if you dont mind me asking and i believe i can use my transfercase I just need an input shaft for the 80 for my transfercase
@@james10739 Why am I selling cheap? Because long story but, don't need, in the way, can't use, little invested and needs to go. I have what I need in the truck, 2WD 4l80e.
@@renaissanceman7145 i meant how much were you selling it for
@@james10739 $300 OBO
I'd love to do a 80e swap, but I don't like the 1st gear ratio it has. 3.06 for a 60e vs 2.48 for an 80e. Now if anyone knows if a company offers built 80e's that have a 1st ratio closer to 3.06 I'd jump on it. Changing gear rations in my differentials is a task. The rear I know everyone will say is a piece of cake but I got 4x4 so I'd have to do that too and the front diff I got isn't a piece of cake like a rear end. I got 4.10s not really looking to jump higher than that... not trying to be banging 3k rpms at 70 on the highway lol.
Does a 4l80e bolt right up to a 5.3 if not what do I need to install it
Yes it does bolt up. You need a different flywheel to do it though.
I totally understand your viewpoint and agree that for cars with a front mounted transmission you should go with a 4l80e over a 4l60e, Although I do not think that your logic applies to all situations more specifically the corvette. Yes you can swap a 4l80e into a c5 or c6 corvette but it cost a significant amount of money, fabrication and time even with a $500 junkyard 4l80e. Yes the 4l60e is a shit transmission but it is not worth the 7k-25k that you have to spend on a 4l80e and fabrication UNLESS you are going for something like 8s and are making over 750 horsepower. In all other cases I feel that your argument is completely valid, yes you should go with a 4l80e when it is plausible.
There are for sure certain situations where you're just stuck with whatever.
But there are a lot more where people aren't, but somehow talk themselves into a stage eleventy 4L60 for 5x the cost of an 80 swap lol
Great info! Thank you!
I 100% agree! I've had 2 4l60's and then a upgraded 4l65 with extra clutches and all the trick stuff, in a s10 6.0 with heads and a cam basically. It lasted about 2 years with good trans temps.
ok, what failed?
What was done with the separator plate and valve body?
Everything that was bought, was bought from Dana at I believe Performance Automatic in CA, but I can't remember the name of his company for sure.The valvebody was done by him. You send it in, and he checks it, repairs whatever it needs, and sets up the hole sizing.
As for what failed, it's what always fails in these, the 2-3 clutch pack. The pressure was checked both directly after install, and a month or so after, and was told it was great.
My 4l80, just keeps taking it. I probably should change the fluid in it at this point. Never had to even think about that with a 60.
My free LQ9 was matched with a 4l70e, from what I've read and seen when I went through it was it has better internals and the 5 pinion planetary. Being that it was free its what I will run as I'm not going to beat on it and only doing a sloppy stage 2 camshaft with headers and tune. I will be installing it in my 64 impala ss for just a cruiser. If anyone has input on the 4l70e please leave a comment, good, bad or whatever lol
By the way loving your videos.!!
The 4L70 is, like you said, a beefed up 60. I consider them the same thing really for all intents and purposes.
If you give them the beans, they'll still break like a 60.
In an Impala, as a cruiser, with an NA engine with a cam, it'll probably live a long time though, I'd use it too.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer if it does fail then I'll throw in an 80 in it. Thanks for the input.
Subscribed and will make a mental note of what you said in this vid.
I agree in every way that a 4l80e is superior to a 60e in every single way. But real talk I had never heard of so many 60e failures until I stepped foot on the internet. I had a Manifold pressure switch failure in one and stripped a stator shaft on another. That's the only 2 issues I recall myself having.
Everyones welcome to leave the "because your shits not fast enough to break them" reply that's perfectly fine. I know my shits not fast. My point is I had never heard 60e horror stories until the internet.
I've got one right now that I pulled from a pick n pull with 230k+ on it. Cooler, vette servo, 3200 stall, and an HD2 were the only changes I've made. I've got a th400 on standby but so far I've put 1200 miles on it and 3, 13.xx second passes.
And truth be told if I had never stepped foot on the internet I would've never thought twice about breaking it.
I think some people are coming here expecting just a comparison of the trans on regular cars and thats where they will disagree. For example, I had my 4l60e "built"...and by built, I just mean a stage 1 at a builder that only builds GM transmissions. It was only $800 also. (Yeah, the price is cheap, but this guy cranks out these transmissions and has very low overhead. The guy only had 5 star reviews everywhere I go).Couldn't be more than happy. I've hauled up and down mountains with it and have it in my truck that hauls quite a bit at times. About 7k lbs usually. With that said, I have a bigger trans cooler, I don't run the truck hard and the engine is stock. If I had a high power engine or towed several times a week, I wouldn't even consider the 60.
60's totally work in the applications they are intended for.
Plenty of families riding around in Tahoe pulling little campers and boats for 200k.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Yep! I'm looking at towing closer to 10k a few times a year (duramax on a trailer) and debating whether I should upgrade my truck overall. It's hard to get rid of a good old truck (5.3 1500) that you trust. I'm more worried about the suspension than the trans......all while I have a 6.0 2500hd that I'm selling lol
Well dam, I just stumbled upon this video, and I am at the point I need to get OD for my mild drive to the track, dial in foot brake s10 Blazer and 78 Malibu, and 79 Monza. Talking 300-400hp. I am retired so I need my stuff to last, if it's broke I can't win any money. I am going to rethink attempting to go 4l60e route now. If my street cars were making 500+ hp, they would be race only, no need for OD. Maybe a Gear Vendors OD add on. Got me thinking now....
For what it costs to build a 4l60 to last with sticky tires and hard launches, I'd prefer the GV unit.
@@TheDrivewayEngineer Well thanks for that much needed suggestion. I got glides, 400's, stock and stepped up 350's, a tci street fighter 350 with 20 years, 100K+miles in 4 different cars, with 5k+ passes at the strip. Any one of those with a GV would drop my highway rpm down to low 2k's where I need it. My crown jewel is the 4l80e out of my 99 2500 G-van, just waiting for a car to put it in after rebuild. Going to scrap the 4l60e plans and think GV's and more 4l80e's, thanks. Looking for a good trans guy, not opposed to travel, and I will pay for good trans-advice from a bad ass transmission man, if interested. mf
Monster sends you a mock up transmission basically. You need to completely tear it back down and actually make it right but they atleast send you everything together lol you get what you pay for though.If you can’t build your own,I would recommend a local salvage yard before I would buy from them.
You said any year 4L80 but I understand it there and early front lube and the late rear lube model that are better because it has solid shaft.
And I still said any year.