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In my campaign, I had my players unknowingly assist a wealthy mine owner. Impressed by their efforts, he offers some resources of his as long as they continue to clear out the occasional cave for him to begin a new mining operation. Usually these caves end up being plot hooks to a much bigger story thread. Group patrons are so useful!
On the idea of a destitute begger maybe have them as an introduction to a Sherlock Holmes type patron who has a network of begger spies, or a Robin Hood type that helps the people.
Or a way to gauge the character of the PCs... are they kind enough to provide aid to less fortunate people, or are they cruel, bullying ratcatchers? The beggar could also be the lookout for the local Thieves' Guild, and the party Rogue could pick up on a Cant clue.
Or the begger is a member of some organisation being under disguise. Not only a thieves guild - any mercenary group or local royal house might want to have a diguised eye inside town just looking out for potential chances or problems on the streets.
Enjoyed this one even more than usual. By chance a group patron developed in our game and now I have a much better idea of how to run that. The DM Lair does NOT suck!
The thing you say about leaving the group is great! I think it's ok for a PC to leave the group. But if they leave the group they leave the adventure, so they leave the game the DM is running. So make a new character who does go on the quest. They might have great adventures over there but that's not the game we are playing. It's the same as the anti-social ranger who sits in the corner. "Why would I go on this mission? I'm an edgy loner." "Cool, you don't go on the mission. The 4 characters who would go on the mission go on the mission and we will play that, have fun sat quietly for the next 4 hours. Or make a character who does go on the mission." "The aptly named Sir Not Appearing in This Game" is a trope I love to reference...
Back in High School, we just used an Adventure Company Board where various adventures were posted. The Company took about 10% of the cash loot. And gave discounts on spell cast services.
In my homebrew campaign I use a group patron called the Dragon Guard. They're an organisation ran by the monarchy. The Dragon Guard were set up to deal with magical and supernatural threats, but also espionage and special forces type stuff. Basically things the regular army can't handle (perfect for adventurers). There are four tiers with tier 1 dragon guard members being little more than for hire adventurers and tier 4 being a high position in the organisation as well as coming with military rank and special perks across the kingdom.
@@EligorArgentum We are playing Dragon Heist currently, and one of my dear fellow players' character decided to join the Zhentarim AND the Harpers AND the Emerald Enclave. And then he failed some deception checks... It was fun:)
I think what could also be interesting is a group of influential people having ties all over the realms. A group of people working for them meet the adventurers, and some person close to that group gets interested in them. Over time, the group itself works with them instead of a middleman, and once they really trust the group of PCs, and the situation fits, they reveal they are a group of metallic dragons that work together for the good of the realms. I think, this could be really interesting for a good alignment party
This is why I love Eberron. Group patrons from the different factions can make things complicated, messy and great adventure hooks. Flamewind is my favourite as she uses riddles and they can be interpreted multiple ways leaving things open enough for things to go wrong or get interesting for the players on the quest.
This is pretty vital for a DM who has a group of more "luls random" oriented newbie players. Just laying down this sort of track can help them understand that this is more than being a muderhobo. Great vid!
I love the Eberron attention on this video. Just ran an espionage patron/themed game. Was an awesome experience from inception as the players choose the patron in advance, to the type of quests and storylines that emerged. Definitely worth doing.
Yes it's amazing how having a patron changes the game. In one of my groups we play Acquisitions Incorporated which is essentially a patron. And it's really cool. Helps out a lot. The trick I feel is to still give the players lots of options. Am I game act Inc usually offers them a few different contracts at a time for them to choose from and I usually have a character Arc Adventure available for them to go on as well. That way the players still have the agency of choice as to what they do in the game. And the game doesn't feel like a linear game.
I fully agree and didn’t think I did need a group patron at first. Then I realized, I already have group patrons for two of the three groups I DM for… gotta say, having a group patron really does make everything easier
One extreme form of this I have seen is a drop-in system run by a game shop, where the groups' patron is the Adventurer's Guild who provides all quests, interplanar transport, and pay. It also regulates what loot adventurers can keep from their quests.
I dont remember where did this idea came from, but in my games there is a reoccurring patron who is present in all the big cities in the continent. He got political power because he can control multiple bodies at once (basically being in more then one place at a time) and use this to manipulate multiple organizations. He is called the Courtesan.
“ so I did what all good wizards do” “ took initiative, and furthered the goals of yourself and your party even if not everyone will agree with your decision ?” “ nah I just cast fireball”
My current campaign's group patron is the kingdom's "Adventurers' Guild". The guild maintains job boards in cities and small towns. The jobs vary from season goblin hunting to "help a farmer pull a stump" to notices of a dangerous monster or group being sighted. Guilded adventurers get a badge so they don't have to pay taxes on selling loot from their adventures. The first time they sign up with the Guild, they get free basic equipment (leather armor, one or two weapons, and sometimes some other gear the Guild office has on hand. Badged adventurers can get free bandages at guard depots, and necessary healing from clerics in temples. They can sleep on the floor of a Guild office if they can't afford an inn. On the flip side, they can be 'deputized' to defend a town or city in times of war or great danger (but not for law enforcement activities). - Depending on the town or city, carrying an Adventurer Badge can act as a social introduction, can boost the character's evaluation in the eyes of the populace, and can even influence the reception in neighboring kingdoms and tribes. - - Edit: I also have powerful individuals that "take notice" of the adventurers as they gain power and fame, and may sometimes have leads or requests for them. Some powerful individuals I have used: an ancient Fire Drake (LN Red Dragon, 5E terms) who shape-changes to a high elf, a half-elf sorcerer who has a tower on a ley crossing and is an astronomer, and one of the king's knights who likes to deputize the characters to help him with tasks the king gives him.
This mechanic kind of sounds like private military contractors. Ironically my players are contractors. But I'm probably going to use this now this would make Quest giving so much easier. Thank you for posting this video I would have never thought of this.
@@Dennis-vh8tz I do not own Tasha's. But what I was trying to say is that I have my players working for a Mercenary Company. So if they did end up working well together they have a mercenary background. Instead of four random people working together out of the blue. It would explain teamwork and synergy.
I think we only split up for downtime activities. People say what they are doing, we do any rolls that are necessary and then skip over the time. Maybe a few quick rp things as part of it. We had a game recently where the wizard and warlock where busy scribing spells, someone was setting up a bar and someone else was setting up an embassy. We then finished up after a week and went back to adventuring together.
I set my campaign as a Greek Odyssey and used a bronze trireme that had a mute arachne cleric rhat acted as a party member when we did not have enough people show up, an air ganasi blacksmith that was a descendent of Hephaestus and high level wizard for crafting magical gear, and an optical to Hades that gives cryptic quests. Party loved the arachne way more that I thaught they would, they made friends with the blacksmith so they have credit and priority on orders with him from supplying rare monster materials, and they are constantly trying to figure out who the optical is as I let it drop that a party member caught desire her in a past life implying the oracle is centuries old despite looking human. Spoilers, she is Medusa now a quasi-diety. Pathfinder 1e game if anyone was wondering.
A good way of introducing a possible group patron would be through a one time quest. Like have the party do one job for the potential patron, learn about his background during that quest and once they successfully finished that quest he asks them if they would want to work permemently for him. If they agree they will be aligned with that patron and get the perks and quests you descibed and if not their next job will come from a different group or person who they then could join for patronage.
yesterday i run my first game ! it was fun , escape dungeon kind of homebrew one shot for 5th lvl . I gave one of the players secret agenda to kill one of other NPC prisoners but with "dont blow cover" condition , it was very sweet to see them argue about murdering guy in cold blod ! :)
When running Edge of the Empire I often ended up having my players work for a patron depending on the connections they made throughout the campaign. Working for Black Sun or the Pykes. Eventually they entered contracts with the Empire, which was going to introduce Age of the Rebellion modules.
For new players, you can sew a patron into their back story. "you act as muscle to keep the landlord's tenants honest. In exchange you get free room/board and etc...
My players agreed to do occasional work for an aristocrat who likes collecting magic items... then they (massively) messed up a job and were cursed AND poisoned, and she offered to use a Wish ring to cure them. So now they work for her for free (not permanently, but Wish spells are super expensive...)
In the futuristic game set on earth, but mixed with fantasy elements I'm running there are a few patrons that they currently have 1) Alt Pocket, a Dragon alien who is trying to take down omnicorp. His group is the Chaos Insurgency 2) Zira, a powerful patron - almost to the point of being a warlock patron 3) They're going to be going into the feywild pretty soon. That'll mean they'll pick up a 3rd from there to pull on (on occasion)
I have recently discovered my best solution to the "lone-wolf" player problem was slaying them with a shadow dragon and taking the artifact they ran off from the party with. HAHA!
This is why I like games like Shadowrun. The players have a built in group patron (the fixer) who puts them in touch with people who need things done (Johnsons) and asks them for favors from time to time...and every runner knows it's a good idea to keep your fixer happy...
First adventure: A new dungeon has been found and the noble who owns the land hires adventurers to explore it. The game starts with the party entering the dungeon with other adventuring parties. The parties split up, leaving the players on their own. When they reach the end of the lair they find out that it’s an upstart beholder that gives them a choice “work for me or I kill you.” Sort of like an origin story Xanathar beholder. It needs people out in the world to scout around for it because it doesn’t want to leave its lair. The patronage is more of a gentle push, this beholder basically just wants them to do what they would already do but may point them in a right direction. I thought of this for my local game store. It helps with the revolving door of people who can’t make it this week and random people who are here this week and want to jump in.
the solution to edge lords that wander off? a random anvil that falls from the sky in the most cartoony way possible. maybe their next character will be a bit more compatible with group play.
Currently working on a homebrew campaign. And I made multiple patrons based on some of the backgrounds players picked. Like I have a school of the Arcane, scholars have them as patron. And one player went urban bounty hunter. I have a city ran by crime syndicates who put out bounties.
By such talk, I always remember "Clever & Smart"-Comics. At the start, the patron Mister L. did tell Clever and Smart who the main villain of the mini-campaign was. Then, he did send them to places and NPCs, where they had to fight minions of the BBEG. Just long enough for one session. Sometimes, the mission where just: Take this cursed item from Dr. Bakterius, find out what exactly the curse is, and try your best to put it to good use anyway.
6:00 It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure the ones that have quests to give have exclamation marks, question marks are for quests that are ready to turn in. ;)
Thanks you have given me some ideas to figure out. I have no problem getting my group to go on adventures but this will give more depth to the story that is my adventuring group. My players may find it interesting.
Great advice. I’ve started using AI in my campaigns. Great way to put a few contracts on the table. But I liked your idea of consequences as well if they don’t do them.
My party started by finding the patron's representative shady and reluctantly signed with them, but now they realised the benefits going with it -essentially linked to magic- they attempt to become BFF to get even more. Never underestimate a good deal.
I have a layering system. The heroes wheel works better imo in a larger format if there are wheels in wheels. Main quest for me is a 1 to 20 arch. In that I have roughly 8 tiers based on the levels like 1 to 4 and have a secondary quest to that. Usually tied to the main quest but these have a group patron. Then smaller side quests.
Sometimes when giving plot hooks players read **too** much into small details. One time the GM had told us about this rumored treasure horde that was in a tough dungeon. The NPC kept telling us how difficult and challenging it was and my character reacted appropriately (IMHO OFC) by balking at it, trying to research the dungeon more to find about it's dangers double checking that the "reward" was worth the "risk" etc. Well it turned out I was just derailing his plot hook - when I genuinely thought he wanted us to get "more prepared" and do a "research/gear up/training session" before attempting it.
Oh, send Tarkana assassins after the party. Combine a changeling with an aberrant dragonmark with a set of shiftweave. Now they can attack in broad daylight and then seemlessly slip into a crowd.
You could offer sizeable rewards if done in a timely manner, and less and less rewards as time drags on, and more and more impositions on the choice to not do it.
I tried to use a patron in a game a few years ago. I thought it would be a clever way to give the group mission hooks. The group decided they didn't trust him and wandered off.
A field full of rainbow-hued butterflies sounds like a good place to expect Wild Magic effects and something to find. Wizard doesn't know what he's talking about.
going to say this on nr2. in our campagn it have happen that the party because of poor rolls or because of bad timing have been given a bad hock, or because that's not the most logical thing to do. This was in Trygdvall but I can see this happen here to. new campaign it starts whit the party is staying in a small fishing/trading villedge for a few day waiting for a boat or something. On the Last night a fleet of trolls shows up and raid the town (the book notes if the party manadge to defet the two boats of trolls that are part of the map) place more trolls on the North and south part of the map along the water edge until the party retreats or is defeated. by the book the party need to flee the battle. if defeated its a game over more or less. (there was also a lot later in the campagn at the cursed island a river that if you fell in it was a instant game over for that player). we one for several turns missed the que that we need to retreat (that said maybe because we sort of did roll good at the start of the battle). second was we was not sure if we was supposed to give chase after the trolls on any remaining ship left in town. The day after the battle we are in the town center building or what it now was and was talking whit the mayor and a few other NPC about what to do. as the party seriously considered to run to the local lord and ask them for help (not what we was supposed to do). GM had to tell us no dont do that your supposed to give chase (that said we agreed on a we will give chase and have a few of the NPC villager travel to the local king/lord and ask for help). because that was the logical thing to do. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ the introduction to the patroon part I see can also work to solve the classic you all meet at a bar or alt least give another natural way for the party to form. also something I been... like thinking about as a way to start a campaign and give the player a taste for patrons but later would let the player skip that part if they in the end did not like it but after the party have been formed and now have a reason to stick together. I got part of the ides from the Reviews and talk of the DnD Essentials Kit quest board and campaign. new campaign the player are all part of the Nations Military (Military Force Type: Standing army) whit the party members been ether specialist, soldiers or conscripts. the party starts the campaign whit that the army/battalion/platoon/Company (50-200 men including the support people). first session the party can start whit having a sparring match against some fellow soldiers if the party feels like they would like one. the whole army group might be a newly raised regiment/Company where by this is just a drill campaign of marching, or it might be old enough that its now tasked whit going and keeping peace in the kingdom. (the size should be the smallest a military unit can be thats self sufficent but will have the bellow listed rolls so not like 10 people + players) anyway the party is formed by the army general/officer pointing at a few people at random (the randoms been the players). going you X I need you to do this task (something basic, like scout out a ruin, dealing whit local wolf/boar problems (villedge) ). Now special rules, the party can be healed at the camp for free by the army cleric. the party eats and sleeps for free (base general will yell if the player party is lollygagging to much). If a player find that they did not like there character they can switch in the camp for a new character (might cause more work for GM). camp provides basic gear for the party by the Quartermaster (and a way to sell stuff they find and buy stuff they need beyond the basic). when the party is away from the camp have it be raided by something be it a ork band/army/hoard or a dragon (or just the big bad of the campang). when the party gets back to the camp they find its soldiers and member dead/dying or wounded (you can have it so that the army for the most part is alive but the army will be disbanded). whit one of the NPC the player interacted whit telling them what happen (if the player missed it or even if they saw it from a distance... more detail) and that the party now is dismissed from the military/service (conscripts) musing that the army is no longer functional. Now the player no longer under a Group patron have free rein in what they want to do whit a strong revenge hock (and the player might decide we are not strong enouth to take on bad guy/ork/dragon and will do some random quest to find loot, get stronger and get more support for later). they might decide that hay maybe we should join another Patroon or that they should form there own patroon (let them but note that as its new and weak that they will have to find someone that can help them get it up to the task). or they might decide to rejoin the army again. (I might have based this ide Prologs in Video games).
Ideally Patrons have more than just Gold or Privileges, like answers to objectives the players have for the game or the ability to give them access to people or tools they cannot get on their own.
Love this video, although I have to disagree with one thing. I actually encourage my players to seek their own goals and to work on them. If that means sometimes they need to go off on their own, then so be it. They have their major quest (the overall storyline), minor quests (small quests that they can complete that may or may not advance the storyline but will always affect the storyline), and individual quests (quests that advance the character goals and usually has no affect on the storyline). The individual goals allow the players to meet the their own personal goals. My group usually will help the individuals complete their personal quests and expect the others to do the same. Of course, I usually play games that last 1-very high level (17-20) so there is that.
@@1dbvvdb1 So when I say my players have personal quests, it is always stuff that they can, should, and usually will do in conjunction with their other quests. I have never allowed a quest that player has to complete alone. That defeats the purpose of playing a social game like D&D.
I have a player that is a city guard. So there is kind of that connection.... But I also have a player that's part of the smuggler's guild.... The city guard player doesn't know that. It should be fun.
Wow I actually gave my players a Noble Spy Master as their patron for our Saltmarsh campaign. Made them really distrust her by having them stumble across her while she broke a subordinate the party had taken captive. The fact that she completely shut down combat before the party could do anything has them paranoid.
The only "problem" I had with group patreons in the past is, that players like to ask their patreon for help well they think the odds are stacked against them. That can be anoying. Maybe one should think about not giving the players to migthy patreons in their games. Like dukes.
The patron should be more powerful than the players but not in a way that lets them solve the problem. They could be politically powerful or just very wealthy and probably influential. If it seems like they could just go on and complete the quest themselves without too much trouble, there should be a reason they're not.
My group patron is a powerful wizard. He is really busy ruling a city after a crisis, so there is no easy way yet they can talk to him, yet when he recieves news about the players progressing his agenda, he sends his regards and gifts through whacky means. It has worked for me as a way for them to know he is concerned about the events but absorbed on his own matters.
I feel like the solution to this is simple. The patron explains to them that the the characters are there to do the adventuring work. The patron does offer them certain perks and benefits but they don't entail extra help on the adventures. I think just having the patron the level with the party and explain the arrangement to them is the simplest straightforward way to do it. I don't think characters don't think they can do it without help the patient will tell them that they don't need to do it at all and that the patron will find a different group of adventurers who are willing to do the work.
The image you use on your pdf at 3:28 is an orc character named Udruk. An original concept character made by a friend of mine, Mickey artworld. You might want to add that to the credit.
In my experience this is we the players ignore the DMs plot hook, DM: Farmer Maggots daughter was kidnapped by goblins. Players: here's 100 gold for new one. I'm not going after her. DM: you see that Farmer Maggots arm was replaced with corpse like hand and bound to his side to prevent it from killing him. Me: I'm going on that quest. DM panicking slightly: but the only way to fix Farmer Maggots arm is to cut off your own hand! So you should save his daughter, so his willing to come with you. You can keep your hand! Player: my pc balls up his shirt and bites down on it has the barbarian cut off his hand. DM: Why did you do that?!?! You could have just saved the girl and he would came with you!!! Player: okay so have the skeleton hand? And save who again?
To be fair, if the Party doesn't go for the Adventure hooks that can be the fault of the DM. Also it isn't just the "edgelords" that go off on their own, some people like "Shopping Sessions" and "Knowledge Sessions" separate from just dungeon crawling all the time. So if the majority of the rest of the group prefers mostly dungeon crawling, but there are a couple that enjoy other types of sessions then the only way they can have those things is by going off on their own! So if the DM is a jerk about that... THAT DM DESERVES TO GET PUNISHED!
Players not taking quests... I've been that player. It happens for several reasons 1. We want Down Time: Believe it or not, we get tired of going from encounter to encounter, doesn't matter if it's social or combat, and want time to just live and breathe in the world. 2. We actually already have a direction we're going in, and the quest is a distraction from that: Sometimes, we ARE engaged, but sending us out to round up the local goblins isn't important, because we just got the menu worked out for our new tavern, and we're really not feeling the need to call a halt to the fun so we can go jump in a dungeon right now, thanks. Now, did you guys remember to get the carts so we can pass out samples of the menu to the locals? 3. The job is boring: Look, the first time we went to fight bandits was cool, really, but bandit gang number 37.... sorry, but we're just not feeling it anymore. Especially because whenever we try to question the bandits, to figure out who keeps sending them all, they all suddenly become ex-CIA operatives trained to resist all interrogation, even magical interrogation, so the DM can drag out the scene to be 'mysterious'. Whoever is running the bandits is clearly a better ruler than all the allied leaders we've met, combined. 4. We know the job is going to pay too little to be worth it: I mean, come on, you keep putting us to the wall in every encounter, we managed to barely hold it together, and then we get just enough treasure to still be deadass broke, especially after we pay for the repairs and healing. Frankly, we'd be financially better off running a tavern.
Funny thing, I added a dungeon to CoS for mad mage too, it was the harmless but annoying version of Tomb of Horrors XP to Level 3 has made, my idea being the mage knew real thing and tried to recreate it to hide from Strahd but his broken mind got things wrong.
...I kinda want to play a game in which the PCs are part of a healer organization. Adventurous healers who, when not accompanying an established adventuring party, may be assigned to acquire certain items (from medicinal herbs both common and rare, to magic items that would aid a healer) or perhaps to form a sort of “rescue team”, for lack of a better term. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any DMs who’d want to run a campaign around that, nor any other players who’d play it... Non-religious healer’s kinda where I stand, I’m not confident I could play a Cleric or Paladin, but something like a Druid, Divine Soul Sorcerer, or Way of Mercy Monk? I might be able to pull that off.
Establish a patron that typically asks for the party to recover information on political members, and then after a few missions like this the Patron requests that the party do something completely out of character for that Patron - possibly signaling that something is wrong, or that the Patron is not in control of themself.
My favorite patrons are the ones that reward the players with "not killing them" when they are successful. It is very motivating forcing the players to work for the villain at the start.
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In my campaign, I had my players unknowingly assist a wealthy mine owner. Impressed by their efforts, he offers some resources of his as long as they continue to clear out the occasional cave for him to begin a new mining operation. Usually these caves end up being plot hooks to a much bigger story thread. Group patrons are so useful!
Yeah that's perfect.
for the algorithm -> "the DM Lair doesn't completely suck" ;)
that ^
On the idea of a destitute begger maybe have them as an introduction to a Sherlock Holmes type patron who has a network of begger spies, or a Robin Hood type that helps the people.
Or a way to gauge the character of the PCs... are they kind enough to provide aid to less fortunate people, or are they cruel, bullying ratcatchers?
The beggar could also be the lookout for the local Thieves' Guild, and the party Rogue could pick up on a Cant clue.
Or the begger is a member of some organisation being under disguise. Not only a thieves guild - any mercenary group or local royal house might want to have a diguised eye inside town just looking out for potential chances or problems on the streets.
Honestly wish I had found this channel before I started my first game. There's so many good tips.
Enjoyed this one even more than usual. By chance a group patron developed in our game and now I have a much better idea of how to run that. The DM Lair does NOT suck!
The thing you say about leaving the group is great!
I think it's ok for a PC to leave the group. But if they leave the group they leave the adventure, so they leave the game the DM is running. So make a new character who does go on the quest. They might have great adventures over there but that's not the game we are playing.
It's the same as the anti-social ranger who sits in the corner. "Why would I go on this mission? I'm an edgy loner." "Cool, you don't go on the mission. The 4 characters who would go on the mission go on the mission and we will play that, have fun sat quietly for the next 4 hours. Or make a character who does go on the mission."
"The aptly named Sir Not Appearing in This Game" is a trope I love to reference...
Shoulda had a plot twist wherein the butterflies were still there for a REASON and killing them actually made the entire Feywild angry.
So true. I'll have to pick up this story line and a future video. :-)
Hey some people enjoy occasional casual sessions that aren't just killing things! If the DM dislikes that then, THEY ARE JERKS!
Back in High School, we just used an Adventure Company Board where various adventures were posted. The Company took about 10% of the cash loot. And gave discounts on spell cast services.
In my homebrew campaign I use a group patron called the Dragon Guard. They're an organisation ran by the monarchy. The Dragon Guard were set up to deal with magical and supernatural threats, but also espionage and special forces type stuff. Basically things the regular army can't handle (perfect for adventurers). There are four tiers with tier 1 dragon guard members being little more than for hire adventurers and tier 4 being a high position in the organisation as well as coming with military rank and special perks across the kingdom.
Tfw you click a video and the comments say "17 minutes ago". *resumes watching*
10:25 - Cat cameo! I love cat cameos. :)
The different associations from the forgotten realms can be examples. My personal favorite happens to be the zentarem
I using a lot of Zhentarim, running Dragon Heist and one of the players is a Zhent. A lot of intrigue and revolution is coming because of this
@@EligorArgentum We are playing Dragon Heist currently, and one of my dear fellow players' character decided to join the Zhentarim AND the Harpers AND the Emerald Enclave.
And then he failed some deception checks...
It was fun:)
Preston: Another settlement needs your help! I've marked it on the map.
I think what could also be interesting is a group of influential people having ties all over the realms. A group of people working for them meet the adventurers, and some person close to that group gets interested in them. Over time, the group itself works with them instead of a middleman, and once they really trust the group of PCs, and the situation fits, they reveal they are a group of metallic dragons that work together for the good of the realms. I think, this could be really interesting for a good alignment party
This is why I love Eberron. Group patrons from the different factions can make things complicated, messy and great adventure hooks. Flamewind is my favourite as she uses riddles and they can be interpreted multiple ways leaving things open enough for things to go wrong or get interesting for the players on the quest.
This is pretty vital for a DM who has a group of more "luls random" oriented newbie players. Just laying down this sort of track can help them understand that this is more than being a muderhobo. Great vid!
I love the Eberron attention on this video. Just ran an espionage patron/themed game. Was an awesome experience from inception as the players choose the patron in advance, to the type of quests and storylines that emerged. Definitely worth doing.
You need to be careful there wizard. Fat cat like colorful butterflies is highly flammable and is next to the highly prone to death old man.
🐈 *We all love when squeaky shows up in videos .*
This was highly enlightening for me. Somehow it never dawned on me just how much such a thing would make life easier. Thank you.
Yes it's amazing how having a patron changes the game. In one of my groups we play Acquisitions Incorporated which is essentially a patron. And it's really cool. Helps out a lot. The trick I feel is to still give the players lots of options. Am I game act Inc usually offers them a few different contracts at a time for them to choose from and I usually have a character Arc Adventure available for them to go on as well. That way the players still have the agency of choice as to what they do in the game. And the game doesn't feel like a linear game.
I fully agree and didn’t think I did need a group patron at first. Then I realized, I already have group patrons for two of the three groups I DM for… gotta say, having a group patron really does make everything easier
One extreme form of this I have seen is a drop-in system run by a game shop, where the groups' patron is the Adventurer's Guild who provides all quests, interplanar transport, and pay. It also regulates what loot adventurers can keep from their quests.
I dont remember where did this idea came from, but in my games there is a reoccurring patron who is present in all the big cities in the continent. He got political power because he can control multiple bodies at once (basically being in more then one place at a time) and use this to manipulate multiple organizations.
He is called the Courtesan.
That Patron with some serious power. LOL
The nice thing is, he has the stats of a peasnt. But he is everywhere! He knows stuff. If you turn on him, its gonna end bad heheh
@@metarmored i actually love this as a concept a person with 1d4 health but so many bodies he's effectively unkillable
“ so I did what all good wizards do”
“ took initiative, and furthered the goals of yourself and your party even if not everyone will agree with your decision ?”
“ nah I just cast fireball”
My current campaign's group patron is the kingdom's "Adventurers' Guild".
The guild maintains job boards in cities and small towns. The jobs vary from season goblin hunting to "help a farmer pull a stump" to notices of a dangerous monster or group being sighted.
Guilded adventurers get a badge so they don't have to pay taxes on selling loot from their adventures.
The first time they sign up with the Guild, they get free basic equipment (leather armor, one or two weapons, and sometimes some other gear the Guild office has on hand.
Badged adventurers can get free bandages at guard depots, and necessary healing from clerics in temples. They can sleep on the floor of a Guild office if they can't afford an inn.
On the flip side, they can be 'deputized' to defend a town or city in times of war or great danger (but not for law enforcement activities).
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Depending on the town or city, carrying an Adventurer Badge can act as a social introduction, can boost the character's evaluation in the eyes of the populace, and can even influence the reception in neighboring kingdoms and tribes.
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Edit: I also have powerful individuals that "take notice" of the adventurers as they gain power and fame, and may sometimes have leads or requests for them.
Some powerful individuals I have used: an ancient Fire Drake (LN Red Dragon, 5E terms) who shape-changes to a high elf, a half-elf sorcerer who has a tower on a ley crossing and is an astronomer, and one of the king's knights who likes to deputize the characters to help him with tasks the king gives him.
This mechanic kind of sounds like private military contractors. Ironically my players are contractors. But I'm probably going to use this now this would make Quest giving so much easier. Thank you for posting this video I would have never thought of this.
A mercenary company (i.e. military contractors) is one of the patrons described in Tasha's.
@@Dennis-vh8tz I do not own Tasha's. But what I was trying to say is that I have my players working for a Mercenary Company. So if they did end up working well together they have a mercenary background. Instead of four random people working together out of the blue. It would explain teamwork and synergy.
I think we only split up for downtime activities. People say what they are doing, we do any rolls that are necessary and then skip over the time. Maybe a few quick rp things as part of it. We had a game recently where the wizard and warlock where busy scribing spells, someone was setting up a bar and someone else was setting up an embassy. We then finished up after a week and went back to adventuring together.
I set my campaign as a Greek Odyssey and used a bronze trireme that had a mute arachne cleric rhat acted as a party member when we did not have enough people show up, an air ganasi blacksmith that was a descendent of Hephaestus and high level wizard for crafting magical gear, and an optical to Hades that gives cryptic quests. Party loved the arachne way more that I thaught they would, they made friends with the blacksmith so they have credit and priority on orders with him from supplying rare monster materials, and they are constantly trying to figure out who the optical is as I let it drop that a party member caught desire her in a past life implying the oracle is centuries old despite looking human. Spoilers, she is Medusa now a quasi-diety. Pathfinder 1e game if anyone was wondering.
A good way of introducing a possible group patron would be through a one time quest. Like have the party do one job for the potential patron, learn about his background during that quest and once they successfully finished that quest he asks them if they would want to work permemently for him. If they agree they will be aligned with that patron and get the perks and quests you descibed and if not their next job will come from a different group or person who they then could join for patronage.
yesterday i run my first game ! it was fun , escape dungeon kind of homebrew one shot for 5th lvl . I gave one of the players secret agenda to kill one of other NPC prisoners but with "dont blow cover" condition , it was very sweet to see them argue about murdering guy in cold blod ! :)
Awesome! Keep it up! :-)
That sounds pretty tasty
When running Edge of the Empire I often ended up having my players work for a patron depending on the connections they made throughout the campaign. Working for Black Sun or the Pykes. Eventually they entered contracts with the Empire, which was going to introduce Age of the Rebellion modules.
For new players, you can sew a patron into their back story. "you act as muscle to keep the landlord's tenants honest. In exchange you get free room/board and etc...
My players agreed to do occasional work for an aristocrat who likes collecting magic items... then they (massively) messed up a job and were cursed AND poisoned, and she offered to use a Wish ring to cure them. So now they work for her for free (not permanently, but Wish spells are super expensive...)
In the futuristic game set on earth, but mixed with fantasy elements I'm running there are a few patrons that they currently have
1) Alt Pocket, a Dragon alien who is trying to take down omnicorp. His group is the Chaos Insurgency
2) Zira, a powerful patron - almost to the point of being a warlock patron
3) They're going to be going into the feywild pretty soon. That'll mean they'll pick up a 3rd from there to pull on (on occasion)
I have recently discovered my best solution to the "lone-wolf" player problem was slaying them with a shadow dragon and taking the artifact they ran off from the party with. HAHA!
This is why I like games like Shadowrun. The players have a built in group patron (the fixer) who puts them in touch with people who need things done (Johnsons) and asks them for favors from time to time...and every runner knows it's a good idea to keep your fixer happy...
First adventure: A new dungeon has been found and the noble who owns the land hires adventurers to explore it. The game starts with the party entering the dungeon with other adventuring parties. The parties split up, leaving the players on their own. When they reach the end of the lair they find out that it’s an upstart beholder that gives them a choice “work for me or I kill you.” Sort of like an origin story Xanathar beholder.
It needs people out in the world to scout around for it because it doesn’t want to leave its lair. The patronage is more of a gentle push, this beholder basically just wants them to do what they would already do but may point them in a right direction.
I thought of this for my local game store. It helps with the revolving door of people who can’t make it this week and random people who are here this week and want to jump in.
You've provided some solid advice in this video. Thank you.
Happy to help! :-)
the solution to edge lords that wander off? a random anvil that falls from the sky in the most cartoony way possible. maybe their next character will be a bit more compatible with group play.
One of the greatest opening skits I've ever seen, I'm not sure why I wasn't subscribed but I am now, stop mistreating the DM people
Currently working on a homebrew campaign. And I made multiple patrons based on some of the backgrounds players picked. Like I have a school of the Arcane, scholars have them as patron. And one player went urban bounty hunter. I have a city ran by crime syndicates who put out bounties.
By such talk, I always remember "Clever & Smart"-Comics. At the start, the patron Mister L. did tell Clever and Smart who the main villain of the mini-campaign was. Then, he did send them to places and NPCs, where they had to fight minions of the BBEG. Just long enough for one session. Sometimes, the mission where just: Take this cursed item from Dr. Bakterius, find out what exactly the curse is, and try your best to put it to good use anyway.
6:00 It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure the ones that have quests to give have exclamation marks, question marks are for quests that are ready to turn in. ;)
Thanks you have given me some ideas to figure out. I have no problem getting my group to go on adventures but this will give more depth to the story that is my adventuring group. My players may find it interesting.
This is so timely for my campaign, I appreciate this content!
I'm play testing a campaign using Minsc & Boo's as the main sourcebook. A huge chapter on that is group patrons so I would definitely recommend it
Group patrons are awesome and also the perfect plot twist villain 😈
Great advice. I’ve started using AI in my campaigns. Great way to put a few contracts on the table. But I liked your idea of consequences as well if they don’t do them.
Much like Jason Kennedy I agree simply for the algorithm -> "the DM Lair doesn't completely suck" ;)
My party started by finding the patron's representative shady and reluctantly signed with them, but now they realised the benefits going with it -essentially linked to magic- they attempt to become BFF to get even more. Never underestimate a good deal.
I have a layering system. The heroes wheel works better imo in a larger format if there are wheels in wheels. Main quest for me is a 1 to 20 arch. In that I have roughly 8 tiers based on the levels like 1 to 4 and have a secondary quest to that. Usually tied to the main quest but these have a group patron. Then smaller side quests.
Hey algorithm, some great points raised, +20% credit for Squeaky cameo
Sometimes when giving plot hooks players read **too** much into small details. One time the GM had told us about this rumored treasure horde that was in a tough dungeon. The NPC kept telling us how difficult and challenging it was and my character reacted appropriately (IMHO OFC) by balking at it, trying to research the dungeon more to find about it's dangers double checking that the "reward" was worth the "risk" etc. Well it turned out I was just derailing his plot hook - when I genuinely thought he wanted us to get "more prepared" and do a "research/gear up/training session" before attempting it.
Oh, send Tarkana assassins after the party. Combine a changeling with an aberrant dragonmark with a set of shiftweave. Now they can attack in broad daylight and then seemlessly slip into a crowd.
You could offer sizeable rewards if done in a timely manner, and less and less rewards as time drags on, and more and more impositions on the choice to not do it.
Oh wow. I didn't realize that I am already running a Patron for my players. I guess I'll change the way they interact. Thanks for the advice!
I loved "I do what all wizards do"
"No no I just cast fireball"
I gave my players a patron at the onset. He doubles as a ship captain to get them from port to port so they don't have to worry about sailing.
3:00 I always figured the one in Tasha's was meant as an extension of the one in Eberron.
As prompted: RUclips, this guy doesn't completely suck.
My players work for a tiefling warlock that runs a giant casino/Brothel and they do jobs for her. Right now they’re running her docks as smugglers.
I do like the patron ideas.
I’ve used patrons for a very long time
Cue Sal from Impractical Jokers singing Butterfly Crime Scene
I tried to use a patron in a game a few years ago. I thought it would be a clever way to give the group mission hooks. The group decided they didn't trust him and wandered off.
Yep that's where you need to have play Buy in on the patron.
I can already feel one player at my table saying.
A patron for the party? Are trying to railroad us?
I would explain to them the difference between railroads and linear/directed games. Many people don't know the difference.
A field full of rainbow-hued butterflies sounds like a good place to expect Wild Magic effects and something to find. Wizard doesn't know what he's talking about.
going to say this on nr2.
in our campagn it have happen that the party because of poor rolls or because of bad timing have been given a bad hock, or because that's not the most logical thing to do.
This was in Trygdvall but I can see this happen here to.
new campaign it starts whit the party is staying in a small fishing/trading villedge for a few day waiting for a boat or something.
On the Last night a fleet of trolls shows up and raid the town (the book notes if the party manadge to defet the two boats of trolls that are part of the map) place more trolls on the North and south part of the map along the water edge until the party retreats or is defeated.
by the book the party need to flee the battle.
if defeated its a game over more or less. (there was also a lot later in the campagn at the cursed island a river that if you fell in it was a instant game over for that player).
we one for several turns missed the que that we need to retreat (that said maybe because we sort of did roll good at the start of the battle).
second was we was not sure if we was supposed to give chase after the trolls on any remaining ship left in town.
The day after the battle we are in the town center building or what it now was and was talking whit the mayor and a few other NPC about what to do.
as the party seriously considered to run to the local lord and ask them for help (not what we was supposed to do).
GM had to tell us no dont do that your supposed to give chase (that said we agreed on a we will give chase and have a few of the NPC villager travel to the local king/lord and ask for help).
because that was the logical thing to do.
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the introduction to the patroon part I see can also work to solve the classic you all meet at a bar or alt least give another natural way for the party to form.
also something I been... like thinking about as a way to start a campaign and give the player a taste for patrons but later would let the player skip that part if they in the end did not like it but after the party have been formed and now have a reason to stick together.
I got part of the ides from the Reviews and talk of the DnD Essentials Kit quest board and campaign.
new campaign the player are all part of the Nations Military (Military Force Type: Standing army) whit the party members been ether specialist, soldiers or conscripts.
the party starts the campaign whit that the army/battalion/platoon/Company (50-200 men including the support people).
first session the party can start whit having a sparring match against some fellow soldiers if the party feels like they would like one.
the whole army group might be a newly raised regiment/Company where by this is just a drill campaign of marching, or it might be old enough that its now tasked whit going and keeping peace in the kingdom. (the size should be the smallest a military unit can be thats self sufficent but will have the bellow listed rolls so not like 10 people + players)
anyway the party is formed by the army general/officer pointing at a few people at random (the randoms been the players).
going you X I need you to do this task (something basic, like scout out a ruin, dealing whit local wolf/boar problems (villedge) ).
Now special rules, the party can be healed at the camp for free by the army cleric.
the party eats and sleeps for free (base general will yell if the player party is lollygagging to much).
If a player find that they did not like there character they can switch in the camp for a new character (might cause more work for GM).
camp provides basic gear for the party by the Quartermaster (and a way to sell stuff they find and buy stuff they need beyond the basic).
when the party is away from the camp have it be raided by something be it a ork band/army/hoard or a dragon (or just the big bad of the campang).
when the party gets back to the camp they find its soldiers and member dead/dying or wounded (you can have it so that the army for the most part is alive but the army will be disbanded).
whit one of the NPC the player interacted whit telling them what happen (if the player missed it or even if they saw it from a distance... more detail) and that the party now is dismissed from the military/service (conscripts) musing that the army is no longer functional.
Now the player no longer under a Group patron have free rein in what they want to do whit a strong revenge hock (and the player might decide we are not strong enouth to take on bad guy/ork/dragon and will do some random quest to find loot, get stronger and get more support for later).
they might decide that hay maybe we should join another Patroon or that they should form there own patroon (let them but note that as its new and weak that they will have to find someone that can help them get it up to the task).
or they might decide to rejoin the army again.
(I might have based this ide Prologs in Video games).
hahaha , I love that grognard player :D
Great video! My mind is racing with new ideas!
Ideally Patrons have more than just Gold or Privileges, like answers to objectives the players have for the game or the ability to give them access to people or tools they cannot get on their own.
Thanks for showing the cat.
Love this video, although I have to disagree with one thing. I actually encourage my players to seek their own goals and to work on them. If that means sometimes they need to go off on their own, then so be it. They have their major quest (the overall storyline), minor quests (small quests that they can complete that may or may not advance the storyline but will always affect the storyline), and individual quests (quests that advance the character goals and usually has no affect on the storyline). The individual goals allow the players to meet the their own personal goals. My group usually will help the individuals complete their personal quests and expect the others to do the same. Of course, I usually play games that last 1-very high level (17-20) so there is that.
@@1dbvvdb1 So when I say my players have personal quests, it is always stuff that they can, should, and usually will do in conjunction with their other quests. I have never allowed a quest that player has to complete alone. That defeats the purpose of playing a social game like D&D.
3:56 "... they are bad guy factions, not good guy factions..." That sounds like they are ideal factions for D&D players.
My players may have a patron who turns out to be a bloodthirsty impostor. It will be the only hack-and-slash quest in the game
That old man mask looka like something Les Claypool would wear.
stabby stabby time... just gold
About two sessions before the end of the current adventure. I ask what players want to do after and build from there.
I have a player that is a city guard. So there is kind of that connection.... But I also have a player that's part of the smuggler's guild.... The city guard player doesn't know that. It should be fun.
The only time I allow split party is in towns or if someone wants to do recon. I may allow it other times but it's case by case
Wow I actually gave my players a Noble Spy Master as their patron for our Saltmarsh campaign. Made them really distrust her by having them stumble across her while she broke a subordinate the party had taken captive. The fact that she completely shut down combat before the party could do anything has them paranoid.
I'm using this in my next campaign
So the next video is a rant of players not keeping notes? I assume this from wizards point of view xD
The only "problem" I had with group patreons in the past is, that players like to ask their patreon for help well they think the odds are stacked against them. That can be anoying. Maybe one should think about not giving the players to migthy patreons in their games. Like dukes.
"Yeah I'm your boss, not the other way around. Im busy. But I can send this cr 10 lackey with you guys."
The patron should be more powerful than the players but not in a way that lets them solve the problem. They could be politically powerful or just very wealthy and probably influential. If it seems like they could just go on and complete the quest themselves without too much trouble, there should be a reason they're not.
My group patron is a powerful wizard. He is really busy ruling a city after a crisis, so there is no easy way yet they can talk to him, yet when he recieves news about the players progressing his agenda, he sends his regards and gifts through whacky means.
It has worked for me as a way for them to know he is concerned about the events but absorbed on his own matters.
I feel like the solution to this is simple. The patron explains to them that the the characters are there to do the adventuring work. The patron does offer them certain perks and benefits but they don't entail extra help on the adventures. I think just having the patron the level with the party and explain the arrangement to them is the simplest straightforward way to do it. I don't think characters don't think they can do it without help the patient will tell them that they don't need to do it at all and that the patron will find a different group of adventurers who are willing to do the work.
@@theDMLair I will ceep this in the back of my head ☺️
The image you use on your pdf at 3:28 is an orc character named Udruk. An original concept character made by a friend of mine, Mickey artworld.
You might want to add that to the credit.
Perfect timing
Great work
In my experience this is we the players ignore the DMs plot hook,
DM: Farmer Maggots daughter was kidnapped by goblins.
Players: here's 100 gold for new one. I'm not going after her.
DM: you see that Farmer Maggots arm was replaced with corpse like hand and bound to his side to prevent it from killing him.
Me: I'm going on that quest.
DM panicking slightly: but the only way to fix Farmer Maggots arm is to cut off your own hand! So you should save his daughter, so his willing to come with you. You can keep your hand!
Player: my pc balls up his shirt and bites down on it has the barbarian cut off his hand.
DM: Why did you do that?!?! You could have just saved the girl and he would came with you!!!
Player: okay so have the skeleton hand? And save who again?
Leaving my humble offering to the algorhythm.
To be fair, if the Party doesn't go for the Adventure hooks that can be the fault of the DM. Also it isn't just the "edgelords" that go off on their own, some people like "Shopping Sessions" and "Knowledge Sessions" separate from just dungeon crawling all the time. So if the majority of the rest of the group prefers mostly dungeon crawling, but there are a couple that enjoy other types of sessions then the only way they can have those things is by going off on their own! So if the DM is a jerk about that... THAT DM DESERVES TO GET PUNISHED!
Could tie one of the players back stories for a patron 🤔
Players not taking quests... I've been that player. It happens for several reasons
1. We want Down Time: Believe it or not, we get tired of going from encounter to encounter, doesn't matter if it's social or combat, and want time to just live and breathe in the world.
2. We actually already have a direction we're going in, and the quest is a distraction from that: Sometimes, we ARE engaged, but sending us out to round up the local goblins isn't important, because we just got the menu worked out for our new tavern, and we're really not feeling the need to call a halt to the fun so we can go jump in a dungeon right now, thanks. Now, did you guys remember to get the carts so we can pass out samples of the menu to the locals?
3. The job is boring: Look, the first time we went to fight bandits was cool, really, but bandit gang number 37.... sorry, but we're just not feeling it anymore. Especially because whenever we try to question the bandits, to figure out who keeps sending them all, they all suddenly become ex-CIA operatives trained to resist all interrogation, even magical interrogation, so the DM can drag out the scene to be 'mysterious'. Whoever is running the bandits is clearly a better ruler than all the allied leaders we've met, combined.
4. We know the job is going to pay too little to be worth it: I mean, come on, you keep putting us to the wall in every encounter, we managed to barely hold it together, and then we get just enough treasure to still be deadass broke, especially after we pay for the repairs and healing. Frankly, we'd be financially better off running a tavern.
Funny thing, I added a dungeon to CoS for mad mage too, it was the harmless but annoying version of Tomb of Horrors XP to Level 3 has made, my idea being the mage knew real thing and tried to recreate it to hide from Strahd but his broken mind got things wrong.
...I kinda want to play a game in which the PCs are part of a healer organization. Adventurous healers who, when not accompanying an established adventuring party, may be assigned to acquire certain items (from medicinal herbs both common and rare, to magic items that would aid a healer) or perhaps to form a sort of “rescue team”, for lack of a better term. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any DMs who’d want to run a campaign around that, nor any other players who’d play it... Non-religious healer’s kinda where I stand, I’m not confident I could play a Cleric or Paladin, but something like a Druid, Divine Soul Sorcerer, or Way of Mercy Monk? I might be able to pull that off.
Dear RUclips, Luke doesn't completely suck. Sincerely, WhtKnyte.
intro: use fireball and only fireball
just fireball
FIREBALL!
Establish a patron that typically asks for the party to recover information on political members, and then after a few missions like this the Patron requests that the party do something completely out of character for that Patron - possibly signaling that something is wrong, or that the Patron is not in control of themself.
Cat at 10:10 🐱
My favorite patrons are the ones that reward the players with "not killing them" when they are successful. It is very motivating forcing the players to work for the villain at the start.
A comment for both the algorithm and Squeaky