15 Consequences for Dropping to Zero Hit Points in D&D | Make ALMOST DYING Meaningful!
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Dropping to zero hip points in D&D 5e is pretty much a non-event for players. Getting back to full fighting strength at 1 hit point is a healing word away, and there are no lasting consequences for a PC having ALMOST DIED. In this video, I discuss 15 consequences for dropping to zero hit points in D&D 5e. Let's make almost dying actually matter!
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#14 DemonSouls in D&D. haha
15, NO #15! mwhahahahaa!
Which edition are you pulling #6 negative hit points from?
@@craigtucker1290, he's not pulling the rule from any given edition, just the general idea. If this was 1e, for example, the PC would be in a coma for 10-60 minutes, then unable to do more than move slowly until a full week of rest was had. Only something as potent as Heal (in 1e, a 6th level cleric spell) would let the PC recover sooner.
@@craigtucker1290 3 & 3.5 used it. Not sure any of the others.
You don't suck!
#15 When reduced to zero HP, your character is dead.
#15 Burger King Foot Lettuce
Ahh, so that's what the dead silence was meant to imply.
Yes! THIS SO MUCH! Yes. Zero is dead.
I haven't implemented any changes to this, however, if I did, I'd go with a slightly less punishing version of the Exhaustion rule:
If a PC got reduced to 0 hit points at least once, they get 1 level of Exhaustion after the fight. This is less punishing, is still consequential, and is moderately realistic - they are filled with adrenaline while fighting, so it makes sense to not immediately realize the severity of the injuries they received.
I actually use this for my combats, and it does make going down a little more risky. If they don't want the exhaustion, they just need to stay down. Plus, if you were to take a fatal death save, you can replace it with exhaustion (to give players a fighting chance against higher CR foes).
If it's a little harsh for you, consider a Constitution save upon being revived so that a character MIGHT gain a level of exhaustion.
Got the same house rule, with the same reasoning of adrenaline!
I have a variant idea that could give players a way to ease the sting by spending more resources: levels of exhaustion gained by dropping to 0 hit points can be removed by restoring your hit points to half of your maximum.
The 15th tip is by far the best one, who needs the other consequences with this one =p
People like You are why I have trust issues😂
@@rocksnrolls That's what my players also say ! XD
To avoid the Exhaustion "death spiral" you can just wait until the end of the current combat to apply them. As the adrenalin wears off the character just slumps due to pain and fatigue. The party can then assess whether it's sensible to get into another combat with their new injuries.
Wait you guys are getting reduced to zero hit points?
This post was brought to you in part by: the Long Death Monk club
I have a #15.
Every time you get back up from dropping to 0 hit points. Make a constitution saving throw, on a failure take a level of exhaustion.
I think this solves the punishing aspect of the exhaustion rule not only because it’s avoidable by being a con save, but also because most front liners who are at the highest risk of going down have good con saves.
#15, use all these rules, all at once, kill all the characters.
Here's a simple one. After being brought back, you lose your next turn. Basically it takes you the 6 second round to pull yourself together... like a boxer after getting knocked down.
Variant for the exhaustion. You can recover from a level of "0 HP exhaustion" with an hour's rest. If you hit 6 levels of exhaustion it's not death but some permanent injury.
Don't forget that any attacks against a downed character are at advantage for prone (if melee) and unconscious, and if they are within 5ft it's an auto crit for 2 failed death saves
Another unrealistic mechanic that has created a ridiculous consequence of PCs and NPCs poking downed enemies twice to make sure they can't reengage into combat from a simple healing spell that many classes have access to.
Might as well just have a quarter slot installed into the table for win a character goes down for D&D plays like a video game... Do you want to continue?
But seriously, a combo of several of these could keep things very interesting. For example, a die roll might randomly select from your various options in this video
Using a few of these options would make for a very gritty difficult game. LOL
I like the prone and dropped stuff with the haze just as a start. I usually say smarter enemies target healers and spell casters and confirm kills anyways.
At the same time all of these are more cushy than earlier editions, even if you combined a few of them. In Basic, 1st and 2nd editions, the default rules were that you died when you hit zero HP. 2nd edition introduced the optional rule that you went unconscious for 0 through -9 HP and died at -10. But if you were healed back up to 1 or more you were unable to attack or take other strenuous actions until a full rest (24 hours with zero fighting or other strenuous activity) and you forgot all your prepared spells. Those are the rules I have adopted for my Old School Essentials game and the characters are managing. But it makes them much more cautious about getting into battles in line with the philosophy in older editions that fighting wasn't the main point of the game (which is why you got so little XP from it). They are dying less than when death happened at zero. Which is why even with multiple of the options in the video, the game would still be easier than the versions of D&D people played for the first 25 years of D&D's history. But great video! It's definitely takes 5e in the right direction IMO. Consequences are so important for tension and storytelling. And if so much of the game is going to be combat, then there should be tension and consequences involved. But in 5e as written, I don't feel that most of the time as a player since from playing it so much I know most player panic isn't warranted.
@@Isheian Any sentient enemy should confirm kills and target healers if possible. Those enemies grew up in a world where magical healing gets people back up from terrible wounds to keep fighting and as such they should know to recognize and kill healers first and to confirm a kill before moving onto another target. The higher the intelligence the more strategy they should use but it is pretty baseline that sentient beings would target healers while non sentient beasts and such would not.
For number 15, I think you should implement a confirmation roll to confirm a consequence that uses the character's hit die. For example, if you're dropped you're in a haze the same as number 7, IF you roll below a number equal to or below the number of times you've dropped that day using whatever hit die your character uses. This would mean if a wizard is dropped once, the first time they roll a d6 and on a roll of 1, they're in a haze, giving them a 1/6 chance of having the consequence. The DC goes up every time they drop. This gives the "look at me I eat swords for breakfast simply because they made me angry" barbarian a much better chance of being fine, since they only have a 1/12 chance on the first drop.
Old man mask sprouting blood is really nightmare fuel.
We implemented a lingering injury table part way through our campaign. Strangely enough the high AC paladin is the one who tends to go down the most, but the others have taken a few hits too. Everyone agreed that there should be some consequence for getting that close to death on a semi-regular basis.
I really liked the one with adding a modifier to death saves, I actually thought of it while listening and thought I'd write it but no need for that now 😉
To get it 12.5% more gritty:
Minus one per getting back from 0hp
Plus one per long rest, instead of reset
For an extremely hardcore game, you could use all 15 consequences if you really want to punish your players
Yeah leave them crying and weeping in a corner.
@@theDMLair yeah lol (thanks for the heart btw)
I'd love to apply this to my games! Unfortunately, none of my groups are willing to deviate from RAW if there is a risk of it putting them in a disadvantage...
The first one should work fine.
Seriously, it's a shame
Players never like anything that makes them weaker. You're the DM though. If you decide it is for the best for the quality of your game, go ahead and enforce it
@@jakobstengel1652 agreed. Story > game balance
@@jakobstengel1652 Disagree, that's enforcing the DM vs Player mentality. And is a quick way for the game to end.
Its a table discussion. You want to attract the right people who are okay with that homebrew. Not scare away the ones you already play with.
And of course players hate feeling weak and powerless. Who in their right mind wants to just die and suffer?
I can understand the idea of dropping to 0 hitpoints just barely and "Shit, I'm passing out it's too much" *WOMP HEALING SPELL* "I"M BACK BITCHESSSS!!!!", because that is cool af and healing magic could probably pull you from the brink, but over and over again? That's gotta have consequences.
Man, the supercut of the Sleezy Plug skits is gonna be WEEEIIIIRRRD... XD
I yet need to check that video, but just wanted to share that as a new DM i recently felt that loosing consciousness cause you've been getting hit so hard by claws/giant hammer/fire breath or whatever and wake up 2 mins later like nothing happened felt a bit cheap...
So I went to ask for some tips in a D&D related Discord and... Wow... people jumped at my throat for daring to give any short/mid/long term consequences for getting to 0 HP.
I've been insulted just for simply asking ideas... Feels like this is a big taboo or smth.
Anyway, now i'm going to watch your video and steal all them good ideas :D
I agree, it's almost like people just want an escapist power fantasy where their character never dies.
To each their own, but it's more interesting to see people play smart than it is to see them play recklessly because death ACTUALLY HAS CONSEQUENCES. That's just me though.
Per the rules you wake up 1d4 hours later.
But I play in a group where nobody likes to heal and im the tank.
There doesn't need to be any draw back to 0 hp downs. The fact of being downed is punishment enough which can be caused by any myriad of issues outside of a players control.
For instance, I'm the DM for my Curse of Strahd group.
I rolled a nat 20 on a Spectres Life drain attack and knocked the groups Paladin unconscious with 21 damage.
He failed his con save and now the rest of the group has to protect his ass because he only has 8 max HP until he can get a long rest.
They're stuck in that house until they clear it, and they aren't getting a long rest or I'll throw carrionettes at them.
If you want to kill your players then kill them.
0 hp punishment is asking for players to quit imho.
You expected harmonious feedback on a site called Discord?
Perhaps your Discord was full of players you just want to be super powerful?
I love those skits. The Editing is really crisp
I started implementing the hitdice mechanic after I saw it in your poll (in a RotFM campaign if anyone cares), with the slight tweak that it would always cost three hit dice to get back up (which was half when I introduced it at 6th level, but in later levels they can bounce back more often) and one hit die if they already stabilized them first. It has not come up yet, but I hope this rewards stabilizing people and will not be too debilitating. I do already notice that they have become more careful and serious about combat, so it definitely works in that regard.
I would actually implement multiple of those things, but let the player choose the one they want, provided it makes sense in the moment. It might make for cool moments, like races that have natural weapons saying "okay, screw it, I'll lose my weapon for the combat and switch to using claws". It's something I'll keep in mind for the future campaign.
I use old school Negative Hp rules.
You gain -1 to your attack rolls and skill checks for every %25 health you have lost. Those debuffs are cumulative and permanent. Every long rest you get recovers only 1 o those penalties. E.g.: you have 100 hp. You lose 60 hp. Means you get a -2 debuff. You got 40 heal back to 100. -2 debuff remains. When you are down to 75 hp again, you get another -1, to a -3 total. When you long rest, you recover -1 of this. A lesser or greater restoration cures it totally.
When you drop to 0 hp, you are unconscious. Usual.
You can go down to -25% of your max hp.
When you are down, you are bleeding. Roll death saves. Death saves are Con saves in my case. Death Save DC is equal to half of the damage taken that brought you down to 0 or lower.
If you fail a death save, you lose hp equal to the number that you have failed your save by. E.g.: You are at 20 hp. You take 30 dmg. You are at -10. Your death save dc is 15. You roll, total is 10. You lose the difference between the roll and the dc. Thats -5 bleed damage for you.
When you are healed or otherwise cared for, you are stabilized. When you succeed your death save, you gain hp equal to your con mod.
When you are down to -25% of your max hp, you're dead.
If you lose more than half of your hp in a single hit, you roll a system shock save. DC equal to half of the damage taken. If you fail, you roll on a table.
Just another comment for the algorithm, to let RUclips know that Luke Hart doesn't suck.
I rise to challenge the RUclips algorithm! Luke Hart doesn't suck, and is a criminally underrated D&D RUclipsr!
Greater Restoration can also remove Exhaustion, so it doesn't necessarily require a long rest to get rid of.
One old school mechanic is that every time you lost a point of Con until you could have it restored....that is very very punishing, but maybe a point of con per drop to zero until a long rest?
One thing that I do is take a rule from blades in the dark. I tell my player what is hit lethally and have them write down the wound on their sheet. That usually effects how they play their character. Sometimes I'll get people that need a me to place a condition on them or they will simply keep acting as if they are playing a video game and in that case I'll tell them they can't move their arm or leg. They bleed out and lose 10 HP from their max or they have a pierced lung and they begin suffocating until a character starts performing a medicine check on them. I could see exhaustion being used but the levels are either not debilitating enough or hurt so bad they can't effectively fight. I like the drop thing you said. Though I have a unique rule where a living creature can remain conscious at 0 but have a lot of limitations (Basicly can only heal themselves). I have found this rule to improve player involvement granted it does add steps to the game. I'm still trying to fine tune it to be simpler.
Just a quick precision: #1 is already what happens if you follow the rules as written. When you are reduced to 0 hp, you fall unconscious. And if you look at the unconscious condition, there is a line that says "The creature drops whatever it’s holding and falls prone.". So it's not immediately clear if you only look at the combat rules, but it's RAW. Other than that, a fantastic video as always. :D
I'm playing as a fighter in a game that uses the "get a level of exhaustion" when downed houserule. And it's is a pain. I'm more often than not on at least one level of exhaustion and any skill check what so ever is useless as I'm bound to fail. It doesn't help the party is more of a "toss a healing word when someone is downed" attitude.
One solution I could see to amend my ills would be that a short rest removes the exhaustion gained by downed.
I actually use the rule where death saving throws remain until you take a long rest, while also having enemy creatures react to healing accordingly. I mention in my little rules handout that enemies can and will attack downed players if the situation calls for it, and sometimes my players are still surprised when their downed PC is targeted after being brought back 2 or 3 times. It helps encourage the party to actually try and protect the downed PC, instead of just popping a healing word on them when they're still right next to a bunch of enemies.
#16: Changing your backstory to "The Haunted One" following death, introducing some game hooks with remnant memories from the afterlife. Leaving that as is until their next level up or a milestone moment. roleplaying as traumatic flashbacks, blank gazes, a shaking hand.
07:33 #9 on the Lingering Injury table, unless the wound is bound on the first round of revival, isn't this just going to knock the character out again if they've been healed up to 1 hp? So essentially it's a "miss an action" consequence for the character (or another party member) if they want to be on their feet at the end of the first round. (I'd say that binding a wound incurred Opportunity Attacks too, as the person was too distracted and had to remain too immobile to defend themselves.)
1. Do people not run downed characters going prone?!
2. Exhaustion might work, but I don't use it in my current campaign because we also have a Berserker Barbarian, and (somewhat accidentally) nerfed Haste to also give exhaustion (but also changed the Frenzy to be a CON save instead of guaranteed, to prevent 0 turn frenzy exhaustion), so that'd be overkill
3. I use this, but a third party injury system based on the damage type. The injuries also last long and some are hard to remove. Works pretty well.
6. Hmm... maybe. But I don't necessarily see this solving the problem in a lot of cases. It can end up being the same result as vanilla
7. Remings me of Baldur's Gate 3 a bit, where you lose your action on the turn you're revived. Essentially costing the party 2 actions on that turn to revive someone (barring Healing Word or Healing Light)
9. "Frightened of the creature TYPE?"
>Human (humanoid) brings you down
>Suddenly afraid of Gnomes (humanoid)
>Also afraid of own party
Hope there's more clauses to this one
11. Maybe even only make the DC drop by 1, or 1d4, on a long rest instead of just reset. That might affect multiple adventures, further discouraging going down.
12. Eh.... Kinda lame. I think scars are better suited to the injury table on a high roll, like 20 or around 20. Or maybe if you're adding a CON save to against injuries, you get a scar if you succeed.
15. Here's an idea: GOING TO 0 EQUALS DEATH! NO SAVES! GET REKT! That'll teach you to use your movement and the dodge action...
This is one of the many reasons I'm excited to try OSR games. The default is 0HP is death, and any house rules I use will be me being nicer :D
Yep great fun, combat becomes so tense at low levels
Number 12: Scars. I used that on on my 3.5 Ranger. He took massive damage and needed to make a fort save. He failed, but was brought back due to plot. He had jagged scars across his back and face from trying to pass through a Blade Barrier.
I like Pathfinder 2 death system. If you are unfamiliar: you die at dying4, DC for save is 10+number of dying value, you increase or decrease the value of dying with each throw like a condition, you don't have to succed a fixed number of saves, just have to reduce the value to 0. Also you gain a wound each time you get back up and that count as failed death saving, and those are cured on a short rest or if you get to full hp.
In our Pathfinder game, If you go below zero and then get healed. You are unable to act for a number of rounds equal to how far below zero you were. If you get healed to max plus how far below zero you were, then you can act immediately on you turn.
Number 8 is a good one
Good RP by the bad guys
Scars are cool too
Eventhough I tend to run tough encounters aswell, I'm extremely cautious to touch the "1hp Healing and you get back up" system.
For me, the most difficult balancing problem - as you stated with exhaustion - is the spiral of doom: if one PC goes down, action economy becomes even more of a threatening issue than it already is in difficult encounters.
Many enemies with more action variety than "I don't only bite very hard but I also have a claw" can prove extremely hard to handle even with a balanced team - and it gets frustrating for my players if this balance is thrown over due to a lucky crit and can't get back up with moderate amounts of ressources (at least one action, but most of the time a whole turn, of another teammate).
My solution for my party is to allow myself more variety with existing monsters and their unpredictable, uncommon and/or homebrew abilites. If the players fail to get the mechanics the first time or just get unlucky, they can try once again without too much of almost dying-problems.
It's also a great way to improve my homebrew and modification skills without using my players as laboratory rats (...too much)!
But that's just my solution for my party. Though, great video as always! :)
I like the houserule that any successful death saves you roll get cleared as soon as you recover a hit point, but any failed death saves can only be cleared by completing a long rest (or by actually dying). This doesn't penalize a character's mechanical performance in any way, but makes dropping to zero hit points more and more dangerous each time it happens subsequently.
Thinking of trying persistent failed death saves and adding that when you go down to 0 you automatically gain a failed save, but to make it a little more lenient you need five failed saves to die. This way it's more likely you stabilise than die first time you go down which is nice for low levels play. But after second time you are at the 50/50 mark at best, provided you were healed or stabilized before failing any first time you went down.
Basically: Being downed five times is auto kill like five levels of exhaustion. One way to make it a bit grittier is to have failed saves recover once per long rest meaning you don't wanna go to 0 all that often.
Buuut, I also feel first level is way too squishy where many characters easily go down on two hits, so I like to give them a 5 HP bump at first level to help with that issue a bit but over time it won't matter that much.
5:30 - The subtle thing people forget:
Picking up items TAKES YOUR ACTION (unless you are a Thief with 'Fast Hands'). So you rise with half movement, grab your weapon with one action then have only HALF movement to move away... and cannot Disengage.
My campaign has been using "gain a level of exhaustion" already. That is already incentive enough to pre-emptively heal PCs. We have gone a little farther - as a test! - to add Lingering Damage as a mechanic for powerful blows and Critical Hits... each LD impairs (disadvantage) 1 Hit Die, and is -1 on magical healing, and +1 DC on death saves. They go away with powerful healing (25pts, or Greater Restoration), or good sleep (1 per Long Rest, DC 10 +1 per LD, affected by Exhaustion Level 3+).
We also already do "knocked prone", but I hadn't worried about "drop what you're holding"; "Free Object Interaction: pick up weapon" covers this 95% of the time.
I like the idea of "in a haze" - I love realism rules - but that seems immediately deadly on the first drop (whereas "gain a level of exhaustion" really doesn't hurt too much the first time, and is still okay the second time).
I might add "Gain a flaw" (chosen by the player, not me), but I think only if the PC fails two Death Saves. I can't see an *adventurer* long-term terrified of fire or hobgoblins because they were knocked out for 6 seconds by a nearby explosion cast by the hobgoblin devastator. But, if they were 3 seconds away from death (2 failures), suffered Lingering Damage (massive loss of hp from a single attack, impaired by burns for several days)... I could see that having a long-term effect, yes. Snakes, on the other hand... why'd it have to be snakes?
Talking of fear, I was recently neutralised in our last session. While travelling, we came across an aboleth in a pond as a random encounter. My character, who was traumatically killed by an aboleth in a trial in the elemental realm a few months back but was eventually resurrected, was frozen in fear and I needed to pass a DC10 wisdom check to get over it. I did not.
I don't know if it's for this reason or for something else, but we have a house rule that you provoke an attack when you pick up anything from the floor; so you need to somehow deal with losing your weapon or spellcaster focus. Not really bad consequence (especially if you are ready for this), but may cause problems sometimes.
Also, our cleric is suffering from a sort of PTSD after being almost dead countless times in one fight, but it has an out-of-game reason (the player left the group for an unpredictable amount of time due to personal problems).
Add level one exhaustion (NOT one level) after failing a death saving throw. Failing multiple death saving throws does not add multiple levels of exhaustion. Just level one if any are failed.
Alternative to rule #5. When you awake after going down your death saves needed to die decreases by 1. Resets to 3 death saves after a long rest and optional rule to allow short rests to raise it by 1.
The DM Lair does not suck, RUclips Algorithm.
The sheer number of commercials I had to get through (seven in a 15:16 video is excessive), one of them even bringing me back 12 seconds later in the video than it started, does suck.
I think one way to make death more possible is just having stronger monsters. I do feel pretty lame when a character gets back up but isn't in danger of falling again.
There are a few in there that seem interesting, but i would probably discuss it with the fellow players and DM about what they feel is both fun and fair for the campaign. I really like the flaws and scars one, as well as the haze and frightened one. You could even RP it into your character advancement that a creature (type) that knocks you to 0 HP for the first time becomes a rival or hated enemy (type)
The minus HP also makes sense, in order to make it more difficult to just get back up again. Lot of ways to RP around these events and create a lasting impact on a campaign or characters, while also driving home the fact that going to 0 HP is to be avoided.
I do the exhaustion thing but have it separate from regular exhaustion. For combat exhaustion, if you take a short rest you can remove one level by rolling at least two hit die per level of exhaustion and you only heal half the rolled value over all. Combat exhaustion resets after a long rest.
Yay my party almost TPKed! We were going thru the Cragmaw cave in Lost mines of Phandelver. We were in the part where we would encounter Sildar Hallwinter (I made him sound like Sean Connery). I was DMing but its just me and two others so I have my own player character in it too. Me, a halfing rogue and the elven wizard got knocked down to zero HP. I did not spare my own character just because I'm DM but thankfully the Dwarf cleric finished off the last two goblins with magic missile. We had in fact killed all the goblins in the cave save for one which we interrogated to learn the location of Cragmaw castle. But I think when we pick up next week, I'm gonna have the elf and myself roll for lingering injuries as well as a saving throw to break our fear of the goblins which almost killed us.
One of the worst 5e campaigns I ever played in had a house rule where if you dropped to zero you got a level of exhaustion. Get healed and get up in combat and get dropped again? Two levels of exhaustion! What it resulted in was us having to take a long rest after almost every fight, because the DM also liked every encounter to be deadly so usually at least one party member would drop to zero.
Yeah that rule is brutal. Exhaust is no joke.
I use the falling prone bit all the time, though we generally hand-wave dropping what you're holding, because I don't charge an action to pick it up when you wake up.
I also have enemies "confirm kills" and target healers.
I like the idea of the Haze, and the Persistent fails, but when I brought it up to my players, they all agreed that combats are deadly enough as it is :-o
(They just barely escaped the Baba Lysaga fight without having to leave anyone behind :-o )
One thing I like to do in one of my games is armor and weapons get damaged. Its simple to keep track of in an excel spread sheet. Every time the pc hits or gets hit it gets added up to whatever item it is and there's a total at the top. Then during a short or long rest I roll a d100 and if it lands within the number then one of their items discover one of their items is damaged and gets a -1 damage or ac. I'd like to do this for any item they are carrying but that would get way more complicated.
I'd like to also couple this with a different proficiency system so that it matters what weapon they're using but I haven't thought of something that would work similarly with dnd's current progression. As it stands now I know many people don't like how it doesn't matter what items characters are weilding and I don't like how finding mundane weapons is pointless. This way when finding a long sword in a dungeon when the character's battle axe is -2 could be a big deal. Also there's no repair rules or costs in dnd which I'd have to completely homebrew.
Also in Peak D&d (which is awesome by the way) they have a pouch system where one potion is in a pouch ready at hand. I might make it so that item could randomly be damaged also but I feel like things like rope and whatever other items in an adventurer's pack always being indestructible and always being in good condition is silly. Who knows, maybe this is all because I'm not as imaginative a dm in other areas.
I keep negative hit points and I also like to make a 1 on a death save mean automatic death. It rarely happens but knowing that you can be flat-out dead on that first death save really hurts. I implemented this and it took out a companion NPC in the same session, friggin beautiful.
I circumvent the "Healing Word-effect" by requiring a Con save to get up after going 0 HP. The DC depends on the percentage of HP the player has, so a simple Healing Word will stabilize the character, but rarely will be enough to bring him/her back to the fight. If the Con save fails, another can be done next time the character gains HP, or it will auto-succeed if the character is fully healed. Usually being above half HP is enough for most characters to make the save. (And I use my own, milder lingering injuries to have some consequences for the day)
The rule where death saving throws do not reset if you get back up is very similar to what Pathfinder 2nd edition does. In addition to this the DC for those death saving throws is set by the thing that dropped you. I like the idea that the nastier the thing is that dropped you is the harder it is for you to make your death saving throws.
Having said that, when I watched critical role season 2 and Mollymauk died, Caduceus almost died shortly after he was created. The guy who played both of these characters was very distressed and said he didn't know if he could lose another character this quickly after he lost his last one. Some of those fights were very close. And this is without the modified rules.
This is great! I don't usually have rules for character creation and I have one player that always finds some Homebrew race-class combo that's pretty broken and I am looking so forward to having consequences to dropping to 0 hp for them. 😈
I do the exhaustion version, but with saves.
Basically everyone gets 1 free 0HP drop per day. for every time a Character drops to 0 HP after that, they have to Roll a D20, no modifiers, to see if they get a level of exhaustion from this. The DC is 6+Exhaustion Level+the times they dropped to 0HP. So it starts with a DC of 8 and gets harder. The odds are still in their favor at the start, with a 60% chance to be fine.
Reason I don't do Constitution Saves is so its fair to all players. The high Con players have the advantage that they can take more damage before they drop to 0 and heal more during a short rest, I feel that this is already enough advantage to make a higher Con build still feel safer.
Great video, Luke. I think #8 is just playing the monsters like they should. I do this anyway regardless of falling to 0 or not. I use #5 (negative hit points) for managing 0 hit point situation which gets the healers healing prior to 0 like you mentioned. I have an additional consequence which is if they take more than half their hit points in a single attack and then get brought back up, they have disadvantage to attacks and saves for the remainder of the combat. Some of the other options are interesting, so I'll try experimenting with those as well.
A recommendation for number 15, straight from the new Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft: stress points!
Basically, when a player is put in a condition of extreme stress, they get a -1 penalty to all attack rolls, saving throws, and ability rolls. Think of this like a miniature version of the -4 penalty for getting resurrected. But for getting knocked unconscious in battle, a character would receive 1 stress point.
Stress stacks, so getting knocked down 3 times without reducing your stress score would give you a -3 cumulative penalty.
Each day you spend out of combat reduces your stress score by 1, each uninterrupted long rest reduces the score by 1, and you can fully suppress your stress temporarily with spells and abilities that counteract Fear and Charm, such as the Calm Emotions spell or the Bard's Countercharm(but only for the duration of the spell/ability). I especially like this last one because it makes Countercharm better than totally useless.
We use a level of exhaustion each time a character is brought to 0 in a campaign I play in.
It's brutally punishing. A single fight can wrap up 3 or more levels of exhaustion, and we've had multiple instances where a handful of party members had 5 levels of exhaustion and could no longer move. We've even had one character gain 5 levels of exhaustion in one fight.
I love the combination of lingering injuries (maybe one exhaustion level at the end of combat) and not reseting death saves till they rest. It really makes things spicy.
maybe a little too spicy, but i like it
I added consequences for being dropped to 0 HP, and boons! To give that action movie feel of when the hero is all beat up and on their last leg, I made a pair of roll tables the player rolls on both identifying a debilitating injury/condition, and a beneficial insight or condition. Sometimes, the PC will go into a blind fury, sometimes they have to run away (but can ignore their injuries while they do so), turn the tables on the enemy, gain an advantage against them - even a divine purpose! I think it's more exciting and fun than just getting hurt.
I think the exhaustion mechanic works very well, but I also understand how detrimental it is, and how hard it is to recover. The answer I came up with, which my players all get behind, is this: a short rest recovers 1 level of exhaustion and a long rest fully recovers all levels. Since I use the mechanic more than intended, I think this is completely fair.
I should note that I only allow a long rest (as written) to be taken when in complete safety, as in a town. If a long rest is taken somewhere else, like in the middle of the wilderness, I count it as 2 short rests for any mechanical purposes. (This usually just means 2 levels of exhaustion can be recovered.)
Make it really challenging by using 3 of the 15 options. I like option 2 (Falling to 0 hp causes 1 level of exhaustion), 5 (Death saving throw failures are not reset when you're healed), and 6 (Use Negative Hit Points). Make falling to 0 truly undesirable.
Before you even started your list i immediately thought of getting points of exhaustion, however after listening to your very valid concerns about the death spiral, I don't want to do that one anymore.
Really REALLY like the negative hitpoints one though. It's a very easy and elegant solution to what the problem actually is.
Yeah the exhaustion is too extreme even for me. LOL- negative hit points though I can get on board with that.
What I do is use a status called ‘wounded’ that acts almost like exhaustion but it makes disadvantage on ability checks & speed halved at 1/3rd health and disadvantage on attacks + saving throws and your speed reduced to 0 at 10% Health. The only way to cure it is either a full week’s rest or being healed up past 50% health using magic.
Really gives a good incentive to keep everyone above 50% health. 😘
I run a pretty gritty game when it comes to combat. Sentient enemies will target healers first if able and they confirm any kills before moving on to a new target if their target goes down. I use exhaustion levels on dropping to 0 and I remove all resurrection spells other than revivify from the game and move it to a 7th level spell. I always found it impossible to rationalize non old age deaths having much meaning (except for the poor and middle class) when there are hundreds if not thousands of clerics and paladins and bards in the world who you could pay to cast raise dead, resurrection, and true resurrection from 10 days to a few centuries after the fact. "Oh no the King has been assassinated!" turns into "Again? Go get Abbot Bartok and tell him the standard rate is acceptable." These do a few things to the game play.
1. No wack a mole with healing word without consequences. In fact some players no longer choose to take healing word as a spell they know if they have limited spells known. It goes from an overpowered must take spell to a normal powered spell that is nice to have but not a game changer.
2. Preemptive healing becomes a thing you should do, be it spell or potion. I allow potions as a bonus action and you better believe they buy and drink those things a lot. Though i limit the usage a bit by reducing all potions past the first one you take in a day by -1D4 per previous potion used. Those D4 are not gone forever though since I give it to them as residual healing on any short rest taken that day. Basically I treat it as a sort of built up immunity in your system that needs to work through it before it can have the full effect.
3. Much more caution and planning when combat is involved. This leads to better tactics, better teamwork, and just smoother combat due to that.
4. Much more roleplaying and strategy used to get around combats when that is an option they think is possible. A combat avoided is a combat won without resources being expended.
5. Hard fights have much higher stakes due to the chance of character death and thus much higher tension and are much more memorable.
I think part of the problem here is perception.
The game, as I recall, described HP as more than just literal blood/flesh/body; it is 'will to fight'. You can take a lot of HP damage but you don't have to have gotten physically impaled; you could have gotten struck hard enough your strength and resolve starts to waiver. So on, so forth.
With that in mind getting healed isn't just giving 1 HP to suddenly mend a missing arm; it's granting the player a renewed will to fight and so forth.
I do run lingering injuries as written in the DMG, but I agree they can be a little harsh. As a trade-off I gave all my PCs a free feat at level 1, and only when the players roll really badly do they sustain an injury the Druid or the Paladin can't easily remove post-combat. So far no complaints!
Funny. In my last campaign, the party was already dead, and didn't know it. Every time someone died, they would vanish and reappear on the coastline. They found out by the end, that there were no consequences for death because they were already there.
Here is a number 15 to make up :) : The characters get a permanent scar/wound that reduces their max hp by a certain amount. Sort of how Rimworld does it.
Rimworld without save scumming(and often even with save scumming) is just one long death spiral. Point of the game is literally not to win but to get your colony wiped out in as hilarious a way as possible.
WOW 😣😳
So, I have just started DMing and I have been careful to not kill the players unless they do something stupid. You have just made me rethink that. I guess someone is dying Saturday.
It depends on the players. Not all would enjoy rule changes that punish them harsly - especially since it punishes martials more than casters due to the fact martials are the ones that have to be a bit reckless. The game is already unbalanced towards the caster side.
This isn't intended to encourage the killing characters. It's to make the game a little bit more challenging and to have teeth to zero hit points. I don't actually encourage killing characters on purpose. That said I don't avoid it either. If it happens in the course of the game it happens.
@@theDMLair I'm so thrilled you replied to me! One of my players asked me for more dangerous dungeons. I'm not planning to murder them all, but I've never killed anyone, but maybe I shouldn't be afraid to.
I really like the death saves not resetting and the negative hit points. I largely bypassed 4th edition (my group stopped playing shortly after it was released) and death saving throws are a change that took a little getting used to.
Death saves function like 3 air bags on the way to death since no matter how much damage dropped you, all damage that's beyond what brings you below zero is nullified (as opposed to negative HP). Even if you are already down and dying, no matter how many HP you take (with one extremely rare exception) it won't killed you. It will only add 1 or 2 death saves, which might kill but you have 3 of them so it delays death quite a bit.
I'm actually really drawn to number 5 since it's what I planned to use in my next campaign already. Number 6 is also somewhat appealing and could pair up with rule 5 as well, that as long as you are at negative hitpoints, you have to keep making death saves until you get 3 successes and go back to a flat 0 and stabilize. But taking that risk being both a short term and long term risk for the day.
Couldn't sleep. Now I'll won't sleep. Watching the video
Do you really need to sleep? Shouldn't you be getting to work on your next game session? :-)
I think the harder DC each time you go down would be a good one that I might try. I was once playing a sorcerer who went down four times in one fight. I would go down, fail two saves, get healed, and repeat. It felt weird the third and fourth times how it was just as easy to pass as the beginning. Now I say this, but I couldn’t even succeed at rolling a 10, so I’m not sure it would change anything for me.
I need that shirt!
Hey you got it. Meet me in the parking lot after work.
This is why I do negative hp, that way it makes it more difficult to get them back up. But consequences are cool too
Do they get back up once they hit positive or when it is fully restored?
How does a thing like spare the dying work on this case.
If you spare the dying on a downed character with lets say -8hp, it becomes stable but still retains the negative hp or it goes to 0 hp when it becomes stable?
earlier editions of D&D had both big consequences and negative hit points instead of the super cushy death save rule. For instance in early editions if you went down to zero or below you lost all memorized spells and could not make attacks or do anything strenuous until at least a 24 hour rest (the full rest of the time). Plus in AD&D there were optional rules to stay alive unconscious until -10 and slowly bleed out if you were below 0.
@@mechanussunrise The -10 stuff was tied to having 2 feats iirc
@@unwithering5313 Once they hit positive normally. I mean, my games are still for new players but I think the staying at 0 rule is too easy.
I'm already a paranoid player when it comes to any game, having more severe punishment often doesn't actually effect me but I do feel like my over precautious play style is actually benefitting me.
Intro is great
I'm just spitballing here, but what if going down would remove one hit die used for healing? Let's say that the frontline lvl 3 fighter goes down 2 times. The next time the party has a short rest, the fighter would only have 1 hit die left to heal. This represents the more grievous wounds the fighter has sustained by nearly dying. I'd also add to balance this that when you get any healing when at 0 hit points, you can also add the hit die to the healing in order to not as easily yo-yo about getting knocked down and brought back. After a long rest the fighter would regain 1 lost hit die, meaning that the next time the party rests the fighter has 2 out of 3 hit dice available provided they weren't knocked out again. I don't know if this idea would work, especially at higher levels, but I'm throwing it out there regardless.
Exhaustion does tend to slow down the game play by forcing multiple long tests. And remember these long rests are taking place on "enemy territory". the dungeon! Ever do a reverse dungeon, that is where the player characters control the dungeon where their are enemy infiltrators, do they get a long rest?
The PCs could also retreat from the dungeon to rest up and come back later, they don't *HAVE* to rest in enemy territory, if they did they deserve whatever you do to them.
@@Daredhnu depends on how big the dungeon is, if its multiple levels, it might not be so easy.
@@thomaskalbfus2005 they can still leave and come back later, unless it's a mega dungeon that the campaign is effectively centered around, in which case you should be creating safe havens and fall back points, hiring mercenaries etc.
Also it given the DM the ability to actually change things in the dungeon, make it more dynamic, create some more surprises etc.
What?!? Number 7 was my comment from a month ago! I didn't expect to get into one of these videos. Day=made, thank you
I think if I were to use the exhaustion mechanic as a penalty for dying & I am considering it, that it would only inflict the 1st level of exhaustion no matter how many times you died & if you already have exhaustion no further penalties. Avoids the death spiral issue based on dying alone.
Our rogue would be so dead if we used like any of these rules. He's gone to 0 about 10 or so times, and while the first 3 were due to carelessness, all the others were just really unlucky situations. I really wanted to implement lingering injuries/exhaustion, but the Rogue would have lost his eyes and limbs and been driven to insanity by now haha.
I have tried a couple of these in the past and decided it was not worth it at my table. Exhaustion was too harsh and too complicated, many times players just forgot they had exhaustion and therefore wouldn't even take the penalty without me having to remember and keep track of it, as well as players don't usually even know the penalties of different levels of exhaustion. I also tried a Dazed condition that gave them disadvantage when they got back up. Both of these felt super unsatisfying for one major reason, players already felt bad for going down and possibly losing a turn, not getting to play the game and then when they get back up it was a double whammy of still not being very useful from having penalties or disadvantage on everything. Not to mention if they are going down they are already not doing so well in the fight, so it felt like kicking them while they were down to add additional penalties to them.
I run a gritty game, but my players may skip all death saves by selling their soul to an archdevil, once. Of course, it also involves a geas quest.
This is very useful! There are several tips here that I intend to use and I went straight to purchase your Lingering Injury table. I use critical fail and hit charts and I think this would be a great addition to add flavor, depth and challenge. :-) Thank you!
You are very welcome! And thank you. :-)
I try to avoid using "zero". It's a null value and literally means nothing. You don't add zero damage to a target if you don't do damage. I found it a little bit easier to think of it as "falls below 1 hit point". This is especially significant to me when it comes to figuring out what order to trigger certain abilities and character conditions.
For example, shadow sorcerer is hit by a disintegrate spell that causes his hp to fall below 1. His death save ability triggers first when hp falls below 1 but disintegration only occurs if he falls into unconscious state. Obviously this example is extremely simplified, but it is an still an example of several different conditions and abilities that trigger at the same time using zero as a value. However, if we use "below 1hp" then the sorcerer can trigger his ability first (as he has not yet in the unconscious condition) which if he fails then triggers the disintegration.
these are all very good and cool, i would use them in my campaign but the only campaign i’m currently dming is a 2 person party and i think it’d be very frustrating instead of fun if i implemented the more extreme punishments
#1 is already RAW. See the Unconscious condition. Lots of good ideas here. I do use the exhaustion one. I like the one where death save failures stick around. I'd have them come back like exhaustion.
The horrible scares would definitely drop the chr score of a cleric, bard, or paladin. But as for a barbarian, fighter, maybe a rogue their chr score might go up a point
If you implement 6 (Negative Hit Points) you should really buff Healing Word. The entire purpose of this spell is exactly this, that is the reason it has low healing capabilities but it requires just a bonus action and has range.
Number 9 (Trauma) makes 0 sense, the party is made of ADVENTURERS and not common people. Nothing more to add to this.
I personally like and have used the added exhaustion level but only once between short/long rests. So, if a character has no exhaustion he gets to level 1, if he already has 1 he gets to 2 etc.
The lingering injuries one is great.
As for the two (I think) that are related to roleplaying the bad guys, I think they should be used every time they make sense (depending on the enemies) by good DMs.
I like the idea of giving them 4 death saves and have them not reset until a short or long rest. I'd also probably make it only 2 saves to get back up. But that's just me!
The skits make me feel like I'm watching a telenovela 🤣
Send more please
I sometimes see the telenovela has on the TV use at the gym. And what I've noticed with frightening regularity is that the guy actors are always taking their shirts off.
@@theDMLair it seems to work all the time.
I'm sure we'll get the barbarian without a shirt some day 👀