The BEST N64 Games? Ocarina of Time Vs Majora's Mask - Madness (The Legend of Zelda)
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- Опубликовано: 8 авг 2018
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Welcome to Episode 4 of Madness! We're trying to decide not only what are the best N64 games, but which is THE best game on the Nintendo 64. In this episode it's The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time Vs Majora's Mask, but who will win?
Madness is a discussion/debate show where we decide what we think is best in any given category of video games, movies, food or anything else. We make a tournament style bracket, and the winning subject of each discussion goes onto the next round until we find a winner.
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Развлечения
I just love the explosive emotion when someones game doesnt win the vote. Not because i hate to see anybody disappointed. but mostly because YOU CAN FEEL THE INVESTMENT!
Yo I agree
Shesez also how has nobody commented in the past hour
Nobody else replied because Shesez boundary broke and nobody can see his comments.
You should come in as a guest for this show sometime
You should go on their show Shesez, and Boundary Break somebody's face.
I always thought Majora's Mask was so brilliant. It was like Groundhog Day, you experience the same three days again and again, and you start recognizing all of these things that happen all around you at the same times and on the same days. The world runs on a schedule. And then they base all of the sidequests on that, absolutely genius. No other game has done that same idea quite like that ever again.
Inb4 1k likes
Nitro gotta agree
Nitro Rad didn't expect you here
My boy Nitro Rad
Yea I always wanted an open world where people ran on a schedule. Elder scrolls kinda did it but not to the point of Majoras mask.
The way I see it... 'Ocarina of Time' is the perfect video game rendition of 'Joseph Campbell's' 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces'. A coming of age epic of the archetypal hero. But Majora's Mask is a tale completely etched in madness and despair. A psychedelic trip down the rabbit hole more akin to something like 'Alice in Wonderland'. Both equally as impressive. It really depends which type of tale your heart feels like indulging on.
That's a super interesting take, very well said!
Very true. Personal preference is Ocarina of Time but they are equivalently good.
majora’s mask is the perfect sequel to ocarina of time honestly. those two games are the best back-to-back games ever made
riptidejim Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie says hello
Ironic you should bring up the "Down the rabbit hole" analogy for Majora's Mask because Link literally falls down a hole in the Lost Woods to be transported to the land of Termina.
So happy they reuploaded all the videos with Jared!!!
Yes!
Why?
They took down videos with him in it? That stinks...I'm just here for the content.
@Ryan Gibbons it's creepy that he uses his fan pool to fish from. girls that are barely legal, he just looks like a slimy weasel beta male.
@Ryan Gibbons Wait what was he accused of?
Who else is with me on this one???
PeanutButterGamer I am
Of course I am. Majoras mask is the hands down better game and while a lot of games claim to be based on Ocarina they are really only taking the 3D part. Everything else was from Link to the Past.
Majoras Mask all the way!
I am🤣
I'm team peebs!!!
Poor Jirard ❤
It never ends.
Pro Jirard
@@ThatOneVideoGamer Majora's Mask is gr8 dont worry, we all love it
The Completionist I agree with you.
DidYouKnowGaming? F
I miss this series so damn much. I used to go on walks to random places during summers and winters and would often listen to these, podcast style. It’s such a shame it’s concluded. I’d love to see a reunion of sorts despite all the bs that’s happened. Everyone (except Jirard, sadly) is still clean in my eyes. I really hope this series with these people can make a return rather than us latching to their own negativity they’ve conducted. We’re all sinners, after all.
I agree. This channel was fire. Sad to see it dead. Furst is with game theory now so he probably ain't coming back, but a man can dream
6:54 HEY THIS SOLDIER IS DEAD OH WHAT A HAPPY DAY! HEY THIS SOLDIER IS DEAD I JUST WATCHED HIM DIE!
Classic PBG reference
C'mon everybody! XD
This one's really tough, isn't it? I gotta say, though, the emergence of the OoT Randomizer has made me love that game now more than I think I ever have. Everything about OoT's world feels so epic. Like the way that places are blocked off to the player. You have Gerudo Valley that's on the other side of a broken bridge over a GIANT canyon with a river at the bottom, or Zora's Domain hidden behind a giant waterfall that splits in two. But then when you look at how places are blocked off in MM, it's like... well, the Zora's area there is just behind some fence. Or Gorons, they're just behind some ice wall. It's such a small thing to nitpick over. I guess I just like that feeling of "Oh how am I ever going to get around this?" rather than "Okay what item do I need to get around this". But I guess that just comes with being a "jaded" Zelda player. I don't know. I really shouldn't get started on this or I might be here for 2 hours.
NintendoCapriSun I've been enjoying OoT randomizer myself lately, it truly does breathe new life into OoT. Still currently playing my first seed and lucked out by getting ZL right off the bat and also hook shot out of Mido's House and the Stone of Agony early. Got two chests of Bombchus but no bomb bag yet, then I got both sling shot and boomerang, but sadly I'm starting adult dungeons and getting stopped early in each and trying not to cheat to look for chests and grottos I missed. Tons of fun though.
loving your oot randomizer videos btw : )
I love u
Maybe someday you (or the runaway guys!) should post your own discussion of it! As someone who loved all your Zelda hacks and challenge runs and vanilla play throughs (actually I rewatch the Zelda 1, OoT and MM ones regularly), your opinion of the game is still intriguing to me!
basically the open world of mm was useless
The editors are having too much fun with the hand gestures
Right? Did brutalmoose edit this?
As much as I'm excited for future brackets with guests, I've got to admit, these four are a really good group for something like this. They've all been making really good points, and of course they play off each other really well since they're all friends.
I am really loving this series you guys. Keep it up, excited to see what comes.
This was doomed to be a tense fight from the start. And yes, Majora's Mask is going to crush the loser's bracket now.
Smash.
EĊHÖ majoras
They said Smash would crush the losers bracket in a previous video.
Highly respect Jared for continuing to bring things back to "Which is the better game for the N64"
Yea but it was confusing when he said majoras mask is a better Zelda game
He was saying that it's the better Zelda game out of the two
But he was wrong about which game is better lol
Kyoko Majora's took what OOT had an improved on it, as they said, OOT is the more important game, but MM is better in many ways. But to be fair, without OOT, we would've never gotten majora's mask.
He never really explained what he meant though, because he admit majors mask was the better game. But somehow OOT is the better game for the n64? What does that even mean? Even PBG himself said he was confused. Jared never really explained what he meant. His only explanation was, "it's the better game to start with" which really doesn't prove the point at all.
Can I just say... For a video of five guys sitting around a table talking, this is edited remarkably well. Thank you for that extra effort. It definitely makes it more fun, and it doesn't go unnoticed.
The post production and editing is hilarious - please keep it up.
Truly this debate is a friendship ender.
Quest64 is what separates the boys from the men
lel, i have a knack for liking terrible games like sticker star and final fantasy 2 on gba(not 2/4 on snes). Also, i quest 64 looks kinda fun, it's also my cousin's favorite childhood games.
1. I am so glad you guys brought these episodes back, thank you!
2. The time limit in mm I ultimately love, yes it sucks being timed, but there were real world events occurring you could choose to take part.
I'm so glad you guys finally got a channel :D
"Everything I vote for loses."
(Sighs) I feel you Jirard.
If he believes that Majora's mask is the superior game, doesn't that mean it's the better N64 game aswell?
These conversations are very good and well balanced. You guys all have very impressive thoughts and views on this topic, as well as that you respect each other very much and allow everyone to be heard.
Did they film all of these in one day? That's rough. Thanks for the hard work boys! It's paying off. Also shout out to the editing team. Y'all are the real mvps.
I'd go with Majora's Mask because of it's brilliant dungeons and deep, melancholy story with great side-quests.
Dio Drando im not the biggest fan of the dungeons, but I think it is better in the overall world, story, and side quests.
You read my mind
Totally agree
Hate to break it to you, but the game only has 1 good dungeons and 1 amazing one. Snowfall is rather annoying to get thru, but is passable, and great bay temple is simply the worse.
Everything else tho? Practically aces. Great game otherwise
Dio Drando but again, that’s going with better Zelda title. If you want a game to be like “if you want to get used to the n64 and get into the Zelda franchise” ocarina of time is the one to go for. It is not better, but it is the most important Zelda game and a great way to get used to n64 controls.
A point that they didn't bring up that I think is another strong suit is the transformation masks. You get to understand what it's like to be each of the races. Not only in a combat setting but in a social setting as well. The dialogue with the NPCs will change depending on what race you are at the time, it's obvious they treat each race differently. They could have easily been lazy and just had all the NPCs say the same thing with each mask but they dont and that don't even end at the transformation masks but some dialogue will change with the regular masks also
that's more world building which majora does have down. but all the masks were technically was a replacement of an item in ocarina and a new way to travel. which is cool and it does change the game to make it its own but i don't think its enough to win over ocarina.
Totally agreed on this social/race differences with each masks.
I loved back them, seeing different NPC's dialogues, by changing the mask in front of them haha!
jonathan taylor I like that feature. It makes the world feel a little bit more realistic towards the people.
Love the concept and the execution guys! My one criticism is that the goofy stock noises when you had another person share their viewpoint/arguement got old really fast. Anyways, can't wait to see more of this.
I absolutely love the editing in this, insta-subscribed
Jared's argument for ocarina makes no sense. That would be like if we were debating which of Mozart's pieces was the best and i said "twinkle twinkle little star, because it's the most widely acceptable song"
I have to agree with ProJared. I completely agree that Majora's Mask was more meaningful to me, I had more fun playing it, and I go back and play it way more than Ocarina of Time because it's a better Zelda experience. But I don't think I would have someone play MM first before OoT. Its legacy in games is much more meaningful and the way it evolved 3D dungeon exploration and use of vertical space stands as a monumental experience even today.
MM takes you on an emotional journey and will probably always be my favorite game of all time. But OoT is the better N64 game because its epic story is still impacting games to this day.
I think the problem is that the question is ill defined. If it's just "what was the more important video game for the N64", then there's really no debate, OoT. It sold more, came out earlier, etc. That means that 007 should actually beat OoT as it sold more and really helped N64 by dragging in Rare and their slew of games. It was even easier than Zelda to get into (my dad played and enjoyed 007 and I think that's one of the only games he's ever played outside of maybe a baseball game on the NES). It also paved a way for console first person shoots which became far more influential and have sold better compared to adventure games.
Majora's Mask is equally initiative too though because of all these side quests and the day to night cycle that all the npcs are programmed to. When we think about great games of the current generation side quests heavy titles like Witcher 3, GTA or Bethesda games really get a lot of praise and I think a lot of that is down to that gameplay/ narrative style.
And damn is it cinematic; visual storytelling wise it is strikingly memorable and I know most would rather it to be adapted to the screen out of the two. It's so unique while Ocarina is basically you're average Mario saves the Princess hero's journey story, sure it's an epic journey through time but it's still - out of the two - a more archetypal story.
I love that each one of these starts with a funny moment from Austin
You guys really need to do "The Best Of" other consoles after this as well. Every video so far has been done very well in argument, feeling, comedy, overall enjoyment, and any other positive thing to say that I missed. Love the videos and love the cast. Keep it up!
I actually agree with Jared, Ocarina is more accessible, even though Majora's Mask improves a-lot of things!
This is a hard decision to make
Me too.... I wanted to vote for A Link to the Past
Seriously Though, thematically, I Love Majora's Mask and it is a story that has stuck in my mind since I first played it. But it is a chore! I have played through it twice in my entire life. Once on the gamecube and once on the 3DS.
But Ocarina of Time. It's almost the opposite. I've played so many times that nothing is new or exciting anymore. Playing it is just boring now and I'm starting to notice some things that aren't so great about it. (IE, forcing the player to talk to Saria or Zelda before progressing to the next dungeon.
A Link to the Past is the only game that I still thoroughly enjoy playing today.
Whenever I go back to play Majora's Mask I feel like it's almost like a chore to play again mainly because of the time cycle. Basically I mean I enjoy Ocarina of Time more because I have more fun with it and I can go whatever pace I want when I want.
That being said, OOT and MM are 2 of my favorite Zelda games and might be the closest prequel to sequel pair ever.
Not to mention there are more heart pieces to get than in ocarina as there are only 4 dungeons and bosses while ocarina has 9.
@@Thaction More heart pieces dosent mean it's better. Your also for getting the amount of mask in the game. People seem to forget that even though majoras mask has 4 main temples the player does many things to get to them but in ocarina of time the player goes through the same areas (forest death mountain and zoras river twice) once as an adult and once as a child. It takes until the end of the game to unlock a brand new area which is gerudo valley. Majoras mask has better pacing so.....
Chore? Tbh I felt like oot was a chore because of the horrid ways of traveling. Idk but it never felt like a chore to me cause I planned out my route beforehand
I found OoT way more of an chore because it so slow to travel one overworld and dungeon to the next. Not to mentioned with the exception of Spirit Temple & Inside Deku Deku, I found most of the dungeons & overworld kinda dull & tedious.
Have u heard of slowing down time?
This is a fantastic show. Just seeing people knowledgeable and passionate about any subject is great.
I agree fully that majoras mask is overall a better game. But at the same time, suddenly i realized that i've played ocarina of time like 17 times, while majoras mask like 3.
And its precisely because of that, ocarina of time is just easier to get into, for newcomers and veterans alike. When i think of ocarina of time i think of being part of an epic adventure, the classical hero's journey of good vs evil. Saving the world only with your courage and skills.
When i think of majoras mask, i think of micro-managing everything lol. And as fun as it is. Its just less exciting. Its a better game to reflect to, to have a conversation about it. But to just sit and play some zelda, some n64. Ocarina of time is more fun.
tbh i would be perfectly fine with either decision for these exact arguments. But thats the beauty of the debate haha
Diego G While I'm not disagreeing with you, I would suggest as a counter argument that with Majora's Mask if you want to play through a favorite part of yours over again, you don't have to take on the entire game from the start again and work your way up to those parts, that with a complete or even partially completed game save you can redo the quests and dungeons of your choosing and get the story again or your favorite game play parts again, it's not ever one and done per game play, but if you wanted to replay through the entire game in one go I can understand that as well and that's fun as well.
Dark Wolf I agree that people could consider that a pro of majoras mask, but i simply don't relate to that pro. I've never done it haha, revisit a previous area or quest. The only reason i ever revisit zelda dungeons is if i missed a collectible, like a skulltula or a fairy.
The only real problem i have with majoras mask, is something else that is pretty personal. Is that it is probably the easiest 3D zelda. Since the game has a total of 20 hearts, but it really only requires you to collect 6, the bosses have to accomodate for that. But at the same time the game really encourages you to do all the side quests, to the point that if you don't do them, you basically didn't play the game lol. But then every boss is a complete joke. One of the reasons i was excited for majoras mask 3D is because i was completely sure that some sort of hero mode would be implemented as a reward. You know, enemies do double damage. Maybe you can't regain health from bushes or stuff. But no... the 3D version is actually easier with the adition of an extra bottle and there is no hero mode at all :(
Diego G I'm going to have to disagree with MM being the easier of the two games. Two factors contribute to this decision. 1) The time constraint. Playing blind first time or first time in many years and not remembering everything, even if you start a dungeon St the start of day 1, I personally have messed around looking for all the fairies and wasted too much time or got lost looking for a key and then I am faced with the dilemma of rushing on and hoping I can beat it in time, or having to reset time. When you get lost as a new player in OoT, you can save any place and any time and pick it up again. MM had owl statues in the western release to save and quit at, or Song of Time save and reset. Japan didn't even have owl statues so if you played there, if you get lost and run out of time, or get stumped, you lose all your progress unless you complete the dungeon. OoT the worst penalty is to start at the beginning of the dungeon with 3 hesrts and just going back to where you died progress intact. 2) Mask Puzzles and Platforming could be quite annoying, and while usually enjoyable by themselves in open areas, navigating Goron Link and Zora Link on the moon puzzles are quite tedious and difficult for me at least so I'm going to have to go with OoT being easier than Majora's Mask, but now that we've both played both games enough times and on N64 and 3DS it's hard to say that they are challenging to either of us outside of a few areas here or there, mainly for me Zora Swimming and Goron rolling maze. Also, running out of time and losing progress on that initial blind run or return run when you don't remember things correctly.
Dark Wolf well yeah i agree there. Playing for the first time Majoras mask is way harder than OoT. Just for the time mechanic alone, my younger brother started playing it and i told him the slow time song just for pity. Difficulty in puzzles i think is debatable, both have very annoying quests. At least majoras mask gives you plenty of hints with the bombers notebook, and its greatly enhanced in the 3DS version, even better than the sheikah stones. The trading sequences in ocarina of time were a nightmare the first time.
But i was mainly talking about the combat, and how easy it is to die in both games. Don't get me wrong, ocarina of time is not hard at all. But i think its hard enough for me to be invested in the combat, even after all these years, specially if i'm playing the master quest. I could definetely loose a fairy or two in the final battle with ganon even at 100% of the game. With majoras mask i have to severely handicap myself for majoras mask to be any kind of challenge.
I don't know, maybe i'm still very upset for the absence of hero-mode in majoras mask. Literally i just wanted the baddies to do double damage as aa minimum lol, in no programming language that is difficult to do. With just that i would have played the game two times in a row without thinking. Its a really excellent game. Now if they would have made the map mirrowed and lower the heart drops. it would be a dream came true. So sad
Diego G Have you tried out the OoT randomizer yet? If you aren't familiar with it, you should look into it. It's essentially a program that takes the 1.0 NTSC ROM of Ocarina of Time and let's you randomize all the treasure chest, songs, and so on with many options so that it's practically a brand new adventure looking for items all out of place and trying to figure out what to do to advance. I've been playing it casually and it's quite enjoyable. Check it out on RUclips if you haven't and give it a try, I think you'd enjoy it.
Jared thinks saying “Which is the better Nintendo 64 game?” moves the discussion forward but it really doesn’t
I love the new channel and the series! I just think that these videos could be a lot better without the music or at least the music tuned down a lot, videos like these are great for background noise whilst doing other stuff and the music just comes off distracting!
Great video! I’m an old school N64 player but never wanted to play Zelda back then for some reason. Wasn’t sure which game to start with now that I got another console during quarantine, but hands down I’m going to start with the prequel Ocarina after hearing this discussion.
This will sound harsher than I want it to, but I kind of feel like they need to remember the point of the show. They said in episode one that they're trying to find the best N64 game, but so far they've moved the goal posts each episode. One minute it's "Which game would you rather sit down and play right now", the next it's "Which game did you have fonder childhood memories of", and the next it's "Which game serves as the better introduction to a series". It just bothers me that someone can say out loud that one game is better than another and still vote the other way on a show where the stated goal is to find the best game.
SharkFist yeah, the “better n64 game” is kinda bullshit, this could mean a lot of things, and nobody is in the 90s trying to figure out which was a better game when it came out, they are in 2018 and have a lot more knowledge about those games and what they did for their times. “majora is better but ocarina is a better n64” I MEAN WTF DO YOU MEAN ABOUT THAT
If I were to sit down and play either game as a chid, I'd go with Ocarina. Majora's mood and time mechanics might put me off as a casual gamer, but Ocarina goes well with the casual crowd. That's not to diminish what Majora did, and I love Majora over Ocarina.
Danny Hargreaves I see where you're coming from, but "as a child" and "as a casual gamer" are more unnecessary qualifiers. Madness isn't about which game is better for kids or casual players, it's about which is the better game. When I was little I adored OoT, and I hated MM because it was a bit scary and I couldn't wrap my head around the time travel mechanic. Having gone back to them with more emotional maturity and problem-solving ability, I think that MM is much more impactful and engaging throughout. OoT just feels dull by comparison, still good for a nostalgic lark but by no means a better game.
I disagree. Think of the games that moved on so far. Although I agree Smash should have been the right choice by those standards... think of which one catered to more people: Diddy Kong Racing or Pokemon in the 90s... or if we're thinking about it now, out of the majority of gamers or non-gamers today, which one do you see people gravitate towards the most? The same applies to Super Mario 64 too. If I am to go by my logic, Paper Mario and Banjo Kazooie might win the next categories. I should have not said "as a child" and "as a casual gamer" alone. By that, I mean what can everyone enjoy and beat in a sitting or a few? I think the "E is for Everyone" mentality is what's going here.
But that wouldn't really make that much sense. While I agree that this part slightly suffered there (Jared's own argument sort of went against him...), it always depends on the game. You will never be able to judge a multiplayer-party-game by the same metrics as a linear-adventure game. Talking about party games with long-lasting appeal and neverending modes, it makes perfect sense to ask which game they would rather play that same instance, while the standalone, singleplayer-experiences need to be adressed for either their innovativeness or long-lasting quality as a game itself.
I'm honestly surprised, mostly because they didn't ask the one question that they have for every other group, which one would you rather sit down and play today? Which one better stands the test of time in terms of replayability?
I think in that context (which has been a winning reason in the other categories) everyone would have voted for Majoras Mask.
PhoenixNorthstar
Well, TBH Oot is better suited to replaying over and over again in my opinion but that's different from how well it plays in comparison to modern games.
I too would've voted OoT should that question come up. MM just isn't a "hey lets watch me play this game and watch as I forget half of the side quests (which is literally most of the game)". OoT is much easier to remember what to do because there is never a time limit. You want something done? Go and do it. You don't have to wait for it to be 8:40Pm on the second day during a thunderstorm on the fifth Tuesday of the month (Yes that's both exaggerating and sarcasm). MM has a lot of waiting around and very little dungeons for a game that revolves around dungeons.
It also depends on how and what system you play it on. I never beat MM on the N64. I finished two of the four dungeons and quit after feeling frustrated and bored. When the N3DS version came out, I played through the first dungeon, got bored and confused and quit up until recently and with the assistance of RUclips play throughs, I beat ALL four dungeons and collected 23 mask.
Being that I am having a little bit more fun playing MM on a portable system has encourage me to revisit the game and finally beat it (soon). If I only had the N64 version to play, then I would NEVER bother touching that game again despite still owning it (original holographic copy) simply because I cannot sit behind aTV and play that type of game with those graphics now. I just don’t have the time nor the interest on going back and forth doing Quest for hours.
I would have to disagree with you. I think OoT has more replayability on the N64. 3ds MM is far more replayable than it's N64 predecessor.
PhoenixNorthstar - Having The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask 3D on the Nintendo 3DS has done this game well. I was so happy to not only have another change to play the game, but on a portable, with subtle changes that are quality-of-life, and with a second screen. All of these combined, made MM3D, to me, a much more enjoyable experience.
Plus, after beating The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time for the N64 and then learning that another Zelda game would be coming out in another year, I was so amped, then when I got MM, I felt cheated, because it was nothing like the experience I had with OOT. Very different and confusing for me.
Me getting through two of the four dungeons at the time was an accomplishment, because I forced myself to do that to justify the purchase mostly. However, I am still happy to stilll own my original CIB, first printing holographic copy with the original shield, “blood”, and chants, before future printings either edit the material or took it out altogether. I’ll never appreciate it enough to play through the game on the N64 to see them, but I own it and will forever. Lol!
I like that Bravely Default/Second music in the background! Good choice!
Is that bravely default music in the background at the beginning. Loving the video already
This was quite tricky choice to choose. It's like picking who's the better son or daughter!
Nah cause MM is better
Guess my Daughter Majora is my favorite.
More like you have Macaulay Culkin in one hand and Elijah Wood in the other and you can only save one of them lol
Majora is the best one here, you can't beat how emotional and creative it is
I felt like that the point of Majora's mask was the side quests. While Ocarina of Time focused on getting to the next dungeon, I felt as though it had pretty minimal character development and interaction. The best part of Majora's Mask was interacting with the characters, seeing how they grew in different timelines, and how they each dealt with the end of the world. I do admit, OOTs dungeons were allot better.
Except for Stone Tower Temple.
It's my favorite Zelda Dungeon.
Seriously love that bravely default music early in the video
*SUPERMAN 64 IS THE BEST ZELDA*
Nah dude it's Batman Beyond Return of the Joker.
Nah you guys, I'm gonna have to go with Aquaman: Battle for Atlantis
I hate the argument of how sitting someone down with Ocarina will allow them to more easily get into the franchise than Majora. Of course it is. If I have someone watch a television pilot episode or episode three of the same show, which should I show them to have them understand the shows story and characters more?
And with that, I would say that LTTP (or LBW) or even Wind Waker are the better games to start off with for ease of entry and cleanly digestible content.
Yeah, I don't think the logic behind that is right. Most things that a beginner can enjoy easily are crap by a master's standards. A beginner doesn't yet have the knowledge to appreciate the added complexity or subtlety of a more advanced version of something.
It's not just about the story which should be a non-factor in Zelda games. OoT is easier to pick up on a technical level as well. Majora's Mask practically expects you to know how to play 3D Zelda right out the gate. What is a better way to introduce someone to Zelda? Have them start out in a pretty chill forest were they can learn the mechanics in a safe environment, or as a deku scrub chasing after children while a moon is hurdling down to Clock Town?
I disagree, I think that's a fine argument. Considering that this is the first 3D Zelda, you want it to be more accessible, and considering its against Majora's Mask which is by all rights a far more complicated game and also required more physical hardware to play, that adds to Ocarina's strengths. One of the most important aspects of ANY game is the ability for a gamer to pick it up and play, and I think Ocarina does this miles better than Majora.
Non factor? It's a major reason people love the series.
But Jared the "understanding the legacy" doesnt matter if its just "which is the best n64 game"
Jared the question IS which is the BETTER GAME. If its more important isnt relevant at all! If that was the case why wasn't Smash better than Mario Party 2!?
They've said before all reasons are valid when making your vote. If nothing else is better than basing it of how many sound effects it contributed to your sound board
Yeah, I really enjoy Jared and his videos, but I didn't agree with his argument. "Best 64 game" could mean a lot of things. If you were to say "which N64 sold the most N64 games" then yes, OoT, no contest. If it was "what game utilized the 64 the best" I'd say MM. If it was, "what was a better intro 64 game" OoT. But it is just simply, "which is the best N64 game". I agree with you Zangelin, it should have been based on what was the best, period. Not what I would give a person new to the series/n64/gaming to play or what was most popular.
Volair
Yeah, and the best is Ocarina...
There's also the fact that these 2 games are not only the same series...but one is a sequel TO the other. I think that also affects it. Because while many of us like Majora's Mask more now....I think it's only BECAUSE we played OoT. It's because of our enjoyment and understanding of THAT game that lead many of us to be able to get into Majora, which I think is a good argument, because that means that just HOW MUCH we love Majora wouldn't even be possible if we ONLY played Majora on its own... At least I feel that is the case for many people, obviously not all. Like PBG said, he actually DID play Majora first.
This is just a great video to show the passion that people have for video games, and their importance as a medium.
Great job guys!
Jared is like a reminder machine whenever a point being spoken " SO, let's not forget which one is the better N64 game?"
We're not talking about what's the best beginner experience, we're talking about what's the best game.
Although with that said I still enjoy Ocarina more...
Majora's Mask will always be the better game to me. Masks, dungeons, dark story, a much more serious tone than other ones.
I'd argue Great Bay temple is one of the most frustrating dungeons in the series though. Water Temple was fixed in 3D, great bay would need a complete rework for that.
Anufenrir Overall though the game has much more charm and personality in my opinion
That is fair. (Isn't it great to have a conversation and not a shouting match lol)
Anufenrir Definitely (Happens way too often, not my favorite thing)
Anufenir. I disagree. I actually think Great Bay Temple is an way better dungeon design & not as completely tedious as the Water Temple was.
I agree with Jared. Majora’s Mask is the upgraded Ocarina of Time, and in that sense, Ocarina is a good starter game for people.
Again, I’m with Jirard on this one, especially for his love of Link to the Past. IMO, Ocarina just doesn’t measure up, but since Majora’s Mask is so unique, it works a lot better.
Gonna be Super Mario 64 VS Ocarina of Time in the finals
I'm curious to see how the brackets in the next round turn out. Is it going to be best of the three? Because you're probably right if that's how they do it. I'd like to see them break it down into twos again because SM64 is a classic, but Banjo Kazooie was an all around superior platformer and imo the best game on the system.
Majora's Mask, Majora's Mask! If it's anything else then I will die
RIP
Rip in the catch
Rip
Rip in peace
I'm concerned for his safety given the results and his silence.
/s
glad to see these unlisted!
I would have wanted PBG to drop his own music with Ocarina. 🎶”Hey this soldier is dead! I just watched him die! Hey!” 🎵
I vote for Majora Mask
You lose
Same. Ocarina of time is overrated
Julia Watson No oot is actually the best game.
Same
Majora for the win! Even though it didn't.
I never really understood why people loved Majora's Mask so much. It's actually one of my least favorite Zelda games. I hated how the game felt like a cheap ROM hack of OoT, and I know the story behind why it's like that, but that doesn't change the fact that the reuse of OoT's assets was so obvious that even as a kid it bothered me. It really bothered me that every NPC I knew from OoT was back, yet the game was trying to pass them off as completely new characters. I hated the time limit and the way you had to reset everything over and over. It felt like artificial padding to me, especially since the game only has 4 dungeons that you had to speed through sometimes due to the time limit. Having to memorize NPC's patterns and timing then reset the world and follow them around waiting for just the right time was annoying and I ended up hating it by the time I found every mask. It's just my opinions, but that's how the game made me feel the first time I played it.
The reason most people love Majoras Mask so much (Including me) is because how different it is compared to not just Ocarina of Time, but every other 3D Zelda. Every other 3D Zelda game had a similar structure. "Find a certain number of items, get the master sword, defeat ganon. " But each one had a twist. Wind Waker had sailing, Twilight Princess had the Wolf mechanic, and Skyward Sword was in...well the sky! Majoras Mask didn't have none of that. It had a completely different tone, and it made the game feel like no other. It also had more fleshed out characters compared to OOT. Yeah, the characters looked the same, but thats because the land MM takes place in is an alternative Hyrule, meaning that most characters Link see is ones he's seen in the past. Thats why the game was trying to "pass them off as completely new characters". And the time limit wasn't really much of an issue for me, but I know MM like the back of my hand, so Im a little biased on that part. But at the end of the day, OOT and MM are both amazing games. It just depends on what your definition is of a "true Zelda game".
Lemlyton Boooooo!
Umm you relize that you can play the inverted song of time..... it gives more then enough time.
Did you not get the bombers notebook?
The editing in this is amazing
You guys should do an audience bracket. like, have polls at the end of the videos to see what the audience would have voted for.
Does anyone else prefer comparisons like these more, like of games of the same genre? Idk, it just feels like pairings like that make for less complicated comparisons than pairings like Pokemon Snap and Diddy Kong Racing. Still, great discussion piece guys!
electricmastro I agree
electricmastro to be fair they use a randomized
I like both. It's nice to see them try and compare apples to apples as well as stretch to find connecting threads in totally different games.
yeah i agree, but they did a RNG for the placement for the games. thats why pokemon snap is going against diddy kong racing, and paper mario will be against golden eye.
+Le Master I know they randomized, and while I know some people appreciate the pairings of wildly different games, I just think it would be more complicated attempting to correlate between genres like racing and rail shooting. It gives less necessity in having to explain genres and attempting to find similarities between very differently constructed games.
Ocarina did it first, but Majora did it better. 😏
*EXACTLY.*
YOUR OPINION! Not a fact.
4 dungeons 1 good one 1 ok one and 2 horrible ones 1 sidequest with any interesting gameplay segments frustrating bosses and extremely making in content yeah no ocarina is better
grim the reaper Ocarina had few interesting gameplay bits. There were no truly great dungeons.
@@cian2168 fire temple? Forest temple? Shadow temple? Spirit temple? Ice cavern? Ganon's castle? And even if you don't think there were any great one you have to at least admit they were pretty consistently good the ones in majora range from easy to the point of unenjoyment an ok a temple that overstays it's welcome a boring temple that's way worse than any other Zelda water temple ever and is one of the worst experiences in any Zelda game to a pretty good temple that still has way too many problems with it even if you don't think ocarina's were amazing they were at least good most of majoras are just garbage with only one really good one
I love PBGs reaction when the final vote is cast "SHUT IT DOOOWN!" lol
I love your guys arguments for both games. Was about to start watching it from the end to the beginning then realized there were brackets. Lol i was introduced to n64 with ocarina of time.
I don't really agree with Jared's whole work-around reasoning on this one. He says to point out the better Nintendo 64-game, not the better Zelda-game, so as to take the games in a vacuum and look at them for the console itself; yet he brings forth the argument that Ocarina of Time is a better introduction to the Zelda-franchise as a whole than Majora's Mask - which I agree with, but that sort of goes against his own words, in a way. 'cause as a stand-alone gaming experience, MM just might be slightly more fulfilling.
SweetWheatsy That's the same problem I had with Jared's argument. He pretty much invalidated his whole argument by trying to point out which game is a better intro to the franchise.I have have disagree with Lee and Jared, Majora's Mask was the better N64 title.
I'm pretty sure he meant the better game of the two on the n64 and not of all Zelda games, aka link to the past
Even Yahtzee from zero punctuation liked Majora's mask, and Yahtzee hates everything.
Twat-zee!
Especially Zelda games
Well he loves Silent Hill 2, Dark Souls, and... yeah that's it
Who Dat Ninja and EarthBound
And Undertale
I completely disagree with Jared's reasoning on this one. He says that Majora's Mask as far superior, but says that Ocarina of Time should win because of accessibility. The question is what is the best N64 game. It's not what is the best game to introduce to someone who has never played a game before.
It's not about someone who has never played a game before - however, we have to differentiate between the games. Majoras Mask is objectively better regarding overall story (as in, 100% story), atmosphere and replay value. OoT has its advantages in linearity, a surperior first playthrough and pure content regarding main story. These points make up an advantage for OoT for people who aren't hardcore Zelda-fans, which makes the game the better standalone. Majoras Mask needs the context of the other Zeldas (and especially OoT) to see it as the masterpiece it's been called (and rightfully so), while OoT is easier to play by itself. Using this logic, I can absolutely understand Jared's reasoning, even though I prefer MM any day of the week.
Yeah, a baby proof game can, in a lot of ways, be worse than a game with more realized and thought provoking mechanics. Since if you lean towards an easy to grasp game, you leave a lot of potential out. In comparison, would you argue that Megaman 2 is a worse game than Kirby’s Adventure because it’s harder and has more mechanics to work with (even though Kirby is a good game)? No, I don’t think so. Or if I were to compare two games stacked with each other in the same series Castlevania and Castlevania 3. It’s easy to get into Castlevania, but Castlevania 3 has the partner mechanic, branching pathways, and a much deeper back story. What I’m saying is, you should assess the game based on the context rather than just judging on its own.
@@benlink202forever i dont hink its more easy that matters i think its a matter of if its easier to understand
max felson I’m actually talking more about complexity and that relation to easy to understand mechanics and how they can be built up. You can have a complex game that has easy to understand mechanics. But if you make your game have that first impression where it’s too complex without any build up, then yeah it is a complete pain to deal with.
Majora’s Mask does have that feeling at the beginning of overwhelming the player with time travel. The biggest spot developers have to find in making a great game is the progression of the learning curve. Of course, all the games I showed weren’t the best examples of this. Castlevania and Megaman punish the new player with incredibly difficult challenges, but in a way, that is it’s own kind of structure. But since the NES era was incredibly restrictive in what it could do for tutorials, people adapted to it. Once we got further down to, let’s say, Mario 64, that’s when it actually made the best way to get used to the simple yet complex controls, giving you an open space to practice and learn what you can do in the 3D space. And giving you signs throughout the castle as you progressed to learn different and more complex moves. That’s sorta where I’m trying to get at. Sorry for being so long winded.
So I agree, having understandable mechanics is great, but having a deeper progression to that as you play further is even better. And I do think that OoT does that pretty well, but I personally think MM makes it’s complexity, although kinda hard to understand at the beginning, super rich.
Foot note: I did noticed I originally contrasted easy-to-understand and complexity as separate entities. But I believe, in retrospective, that it’s all on a spectrum of how you start a game up with its difficultly and complexity. And I especially think that understanding the mechanics and the complexity of those mechanics are blended together.
@@benlink202forever can you explain what you mean by "deeper progression" ?
I like how Jared says Majora’s Mask is far more original, it isn’t a rehash of Ocarina of Time and that it’s a better than Ocarina of Time as a Zelda game because of it but then later says in the losers bracket that Majora’s Mask is unoriginal because it reuses textures and that it’s just a rehash of Ocarina of Time despite the games sharing almost no similarities in terms of how the actual games operate
I'm with Jared in that MM is way more polished than OoT, but isn't as important and won't be as enjoyable to a person who had never experienced either. I've always thought of MM as a supplement to OoT; the adventure after the main quest if you will.
Since when was it about story importance to a timeline it's about the better n64 game not which tells a better story story is very important to a game but being honest here majoras mask is a better game period developed with way less time and still I would say holds up go TV he sane quality of oot and the dungeons in mm aren't as good whatever the dungeons were way more unique in mm I'll never forget stone head or snow head but unfortunately oot will win spoilers
It has nothing to do with importance to a timeline- When I say important, I mean important to the whole series. Timeline be damned. I agree that MM is unique, there's really no other game quite like it Zelda or otherwise. I just don't think MM stands on its own as well as OoT, and that has nothing to do with whether or not its the better game or not. OoT established the modern Zelda formula, and as such MM expects the player to have played or at the very least to have been familiar with the previous iteration.
i cant wait to see the paper mario vs 007 episode
Based on arguments here: 007. It brought in Rare, sold way more copies, was a huge initial selling point of the N64, easier to get into. If it doesn't win, then the question is poorly defined.
Where did you get the bravely default forrest remix from in the beginning? I cant find it anywhere and I really like it ;(
The thumbnails just.... perfect.
I really do gotta go with Majora's Mask on this one.
Yeah, OoT is a grander, more standard adventure that's easier to access. However, the big thing for me I think boils down to two things: Characters and Motivation.
OoT's Link has almost no motivation. When you try to discuss story what is Link's motivation? Why does he do anything? Cause a tree told him to. How about MM? A Skull Kid jumped you and stole your stuff. In terms of motivation for your adventure, as a player I'm way more inclined to go "Hey that bastard stole my Ocarina. Let's get him!" As opposed to "Yes sir Mr. Deku Tree."
And as far as characters go, OoT doesn't actually make you care about anyone in the game. Everyone who matters is either a sage, Ganon, or Malon. Almost every other npc is completely disposable and only really remembered because OoT went on to become absurdly popular and...because of MM. Because MM by design is all about getting to know every character in that world, familiarizing yourself with their problems and their lives, and fixing them. By the time the credits roll, I don't really care about any of OoT's characters. Even the named ones are pretty shallow in a lot of cases, but in MM almost everyone has depth. Shockingly so really.
I could go on just fanboying some of my favorite nuanced examples from MM, but that's pretty much where I stand. As a piece of gaming history, yeah OoT is more important. But as a game worth playing right now, in 2018? MM. Easy.
but if you think of the game play ocarina feels better. ocarina feels more like an adventure having more focus on the actual story and dungeons then side quests to get masks. ocarina is the better Zelda game. i love the world of termina. that was done better. but the story doesn't feel better
On that note I gotta respectfully disagree. Imo MM has one of the best stories in all of Zelda. It's not as obvious as OoT definitely, but the whole story behind Skull Kid and his friendship with the Four Giants and how it all fell apart felt way more relatable and real to me than OoT. Though the stories come down to personal preference at that point. They're so fundamentally different that it's hard to do a 1-1 comparison
@@PlayPodOGNah, the OOT story is just the LTTP, so that point is rendered moot. Might be portrayed in a grander way, but LTTP already did it
Shut it down!
Wow that's a hard decision. Ocarina was definitely more important to gaming as a whole and playing it for the first time was the best gaming experience of my life. BUT There's just something so creative and melancholic and heartbreaking about Majora's Mask that makes it this unique and intense experience. You guys talked about when you finish a side quest in Majora's Mask and then turn back time and those people you helped don't even know you anymore. The feeling I got from that is the exact same feeling I have when I remember what it was like playing Ocarina and knowing I'll never experience that with a game ever again. They are two sides to the same coin, together they create this complete, emotional experience.
I would appreciate it if the brackets would keep progress of the previous episodes.
I understand if someone coming in for some reason into later episodes instead of starting at the beginning,
but I feel like the discussion that lead to the game being chosen should be enough for them to go back.
Majora's Mask aged far better.
Prometheus Dark that's because ocarina is iterating and improving on a common story that went on to be further iterated and improved on in later games. Nothing else in Zelda has ever tried to duplicate MM because that would just be a really obvious retread of something that isn't broken. MM is still unique while OoT is compared to everything that came after.
They both use the same engine and have pretty much the same mechanics though. They've both aged just as well as the other.
Take a walk through Hyrule Field and Termina Field. The difference is like night and day
Prometheus Dark
Mostly because Ocarina had clunky controls and got majorly improved on both the Gamecube and 3DS.
Pik3rob
Ocarina of Time had the Water Temple that just didn't work with the controls on the N64.
Why should it be "the better N64" but the worse zelda game. This isn't deciding the objectivly better game. Just go with what game you think is best.
This discussion was about what is the better N64 game not just in general. If it was about what one was a better game they would compare the 3DS remakes which both are far superior than their N64 counterparts. So as a N64 game you have to also look what it did on its own merits, as a stand alone game, but what it did for the system and the company.
The entire premise of the series is which is the best N64 game. According to the first 15 seconds this bracket was RNG (not sure if thats true tbh) so they have to judge what was the better game for the system. And OoT is a much better example of a zelda game than MM is and thus serves the console (and Nintendo) better, even if MM is better overall
To add to what I was saying earlier oot felt like a proper game to introduce you to 3-D gaming, while mm was very much a continuation of oot. Which puts oot as a better N64 game but, a lesser game as a zelda game.
You two would have a point if the question was "what is the more important N64 game?" But it's not, it's asking of these two games that exist on the Nintendo 64 platform, which is better? At least the way the title of this video is phrased, that's what it should mean. If they were judging these games completely based on what a game has done for a system rather than how good in quality it is, that would be fine, however they aren't being very consistent with that theme then because that would have meant Super Smash Bros. would have won against Mario Party 2. But it didn't. I think that's the whole problem with Jared bringing up that point because he hasn't been consistent with it.
I'm with the guy in the channel's shirt. I've sunk hundreds of hours into Majora's Mask and basically loved every minute of it whereas OoT I beat it once to play, once 100%, once master quest and didn't really make it through the 3DS version because I got bored. I love MM to death. But as far as what epitomized the N64 and even the Zelda franchise as a whole, OoT was THE game. Anyone could sit down with it and not be overwhelmed and enjoy it.
Anybody know the song that starts at 3:05? I've been searching the listed artists in the details section but haven't found it!
Windwaker is super dark, they fricken drowned a bunch of people.
Cameron Seifert It has Zelda brand dark though, as in you wouldn’t think it was dark while playing it unless you knew the backstory.
GalleryOFSuicide nah I played Twilight Princess and out of them all it felt cinematic almost, it was dark so much as it was low brightness in tune with eerie. MM had all spades when it came to emotional story-telling
Burst Your Bubble Nah, don’t be an idiot who complained about the art style. Maybe you should actually play the game.
GalleryOFSuicide Twilight princess had dark choices of colour. And had some creepy moments. But the I reckon the themes and tones in MM are more mature/dark. TP has really one strong emotional moment (Midnas Lambant, the rest are cinematic). However MM was just full of them from start to finish. Both excellent regardless. TP has way more content, but I replay MM far more often then TP.
I started with Majora's mask, and thats how I got into Zelda so I don't necessarily think you need to play Oot first to get into Zelda
Which one would you suggest to person to play first though?
Trapper - Why does that matter though? The question can be taken two ways: "What game do you enjoy most and think is better in your opinion that happens to be on the N64" verses "What game was better for the N64" and it seems tacked on to that is "what is easier for new players to get into".
Fang - I find that interesting. Did you feel like some the characters in OoT were just... duller compared to MM? Or did that thought ever come up?
Trapper Willette As someone whose played MM as their first Zelda game, MM set a standard that made me super disappointed in many of the Zelda games that came after. If you want a realistic expectation for the series, I suggest playing OoT first. Though, you can play MM as a standalone game without missing much from OoT.
Volair - What also to be taken into consideration these games were made in the early years of 3-D gaming. Where controls weren't really refined nor were they intuitive for people. That fact alone would to me make a game like mm much easier to turn off and never play again as a stand alone game. It was ahead of the time if it did come out as a stand alone title. While oot had a tutorial that felt good and introduced you to a 3-D environment that was welcoming. To look at it with now a day standards where people have gotten used to 3-D gaming and can pick up a controller figure it out as they go with out feeling overwhelmed.
LOVE this series. I think you should do it again with a different theme. Maybe "No mainstream games" best hidden gem game :)
I'd have to vote for Majora's Mask and want to go against ProJared's main argument in doing so: Majora's Mask's opening with Skull Kid robbing link and then the trippy sequence was to me so much more impactful than the opening in Kokiri Forest and then later the Great Deku Tree.
ProJared usually has agreeable logic to me but today he lost me. If MM is better, then it is the better N64 game. Like, what if the person is never going to play another Zelda game after MM? They wouldnt need the understanding of the Zelda legacy unless they intend to get into Zelda but thats not the question. I feel like MM got cheated here because Jared cared more about the Zelda legacy. While OoT is indeed probably the most important until or if they do something in future games that places more importance on BotW, but they would still need to add way more to the lore in a few games to do that.
Anyway, I want the MM comeback.
If we're talking the best Zelda FOR the console, then OoT was a system seller. It wins for sure. It set the stage for what was to come. It's more important title, historically speaking.
The best Zelda ON the console tho is Majora's Mask, not necessarily because it's a much better game but because it's a more unique game. While a lot of the elements that made OOT what it is were iterated upon, The essential elements that make MM what it is remained in MM and as such it's a more worthwhile experience nowadays than OOT is.
Loving the background music
Hey, Is the music in the first few minutes from Bravely Default?
Been waiting for this one.
Liked the video but the ending was spoiled in the first 5 seconds which kind of took away from the suspense
that robotic PBG shuffle at 1:37
Forrest Lee is honestly the best possible addition to this collective. He is so likable and a great moderator and I cannot wait to see how he continues to be implemented in more of Normal Boots videos. I am a big fan
I like how Jared thinks, he is always bringing the conversation back to what this is about. PBG didn't have any objective argument on why Majora's Mask was the better N64 game.
Personally, I like both but I like Ocarina of Time more.
This is why i hate this debate because it always comes down to Ocarina of time came first and laid the groundwork for what Zelda was to become hence forth it's better. Despite the fact that Majora's mask improved on Ocarina in a ton of ways and the majority of this panel seems to think so. If the release dates where reversed way more people would care about Majora's Mask. Also Stone Tower Temple is IMHO to this day the best Zelda dungeon ever. I still love OOT but MM is the better game.
This series needs to continueeeee
I love how everyone was hesitant answering. The look Shane and Jirad gave each other right before voting. Both games are great! I like OoT because I didn't feel rushed like MM. However, I love the music from Zelda games and the one song I can play on piano (note: i learned piano for my major) is Clock Town theme from MM. Both hands and I can speed up the tempo just like in the game.