What Did the Prophet Isaiah Say About Jesus?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
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Was the prophet Isaiah pointing to the coming of the messiah, seven centuries before Jesus? Since the beginning of Christianity, his followers have claimed that he did; and some passages of the ancient prophet certainly seem to be advanced notices of what would happen in Jesus's life and death. If these are not predictions of Jesus, how can they be understood? If they do reflect his story, how can that be explained?
Megan asks Bart:
- Why do you think it’s important to look at whether the book of Isaiah has any relationship to Jesus?
- What can you tell us about the book of Isaiah? When and where was it written, and what happens in it?
- Why do scholars think it was written?
- How would it have been used? Would it have been read for comfort and solace, or instruction, or something else?
- Why has the book of Isaiah been important for Christian communities?
- Is Jesus likely to have seen himself as fulfilling Isaiah’s prophecies?
- Since prophecies in the Hebrew bible were so tied into current events, how did it come to be important to Christian communities hundreds of years later?
- Are Christians today wrong to think that the Bible predicts Jesus?
I love Bart Ehrman. This is an individual who has spent decades in the study of textual criticism of the New Testament. Yet for all for his learning there is a genuine humbleness and a sincere desire to share what he has learned. His jovial nature endears him even more ...
Humility not humbleness! Sorry to be pedantic.
But why did he not reference the Jewish tradition and scholarship on this, is he more intelligent that the owners of the scripture?
@@keithsmith3678 Humbleness is a noun that means being modest, unpretentious, or lacking in pride or arrogance
@@innocentodinkemere4597 "Owners" of the "scripture"? They altered the texts to befit their changing hopes and beliefs, as they ignored what God said to start with, what the prophets said, and finally accused Jesus of doing what they did - as they deny their part and blame him and christains. See "The Origins of Judaism"; "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" (for the thousands of variances in Isaiah); and the charges against Jesus that were untrue to him, but telling the truth on their lies. Onediscipletoanother
seems so!
It sounds so impressive when Christians say that Jesus fulfilled all these prophecies. Then you actually look them up one by one and they're all about as specific as a fortune cookie.
It is all re-interpreted stuff nothing to do with Jesus. The Church is preaching strong stuff.
Jesus fulfilled zilch!! He was an impostor if he ever existed. The bible is a hoax!
@@ottosponring5534
An alternate, non fundamentalist view:
Early in life, I became intrigued by Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount and began studying him carefully. Although I was then willing to believe the gospel accounts of Jesus’ miraculous birth, I soon realized that, contrary to several late gospel traditions, Jesus’ significance had not been revealed to anyone ahead of his birth - neither to his parents, nor to shepherds, nor to magi, nor to John the Baptist, nor even to Jesus himself as a child.
Instead, according to the early Gospel of Mark, Jesus’ carpenter life in Nazareth had seemed quite ordinary to everyone, including even his mother and siblings, until the day he left to hear the fiery message of a self-professed prophet named John who was audaciously baptizing repentant people in the wastelands of Judea. Soon afterward, to all Nazareth’s surprise, Jesus suddenly appeared in nearby Capernaum proclaiming the nearness of God’s Kingdom while healing sicknesses and “casting out demons.” Thinking he had lost his mind, Jesus’ mother and brothers went there to try to fetch him home, and scholars came rushing from Jerusalem to accuse him of exorcising demons with the help of Satan.
Nobody knew what had happened to alter Jesus’ life so profoundly - not even the baptizer at whose hands it happened! - and Jesus kept the experience shrouded in secrecy even from his closest disciples until finally they themselves concluded that, as Peter excitedly told him, “You are the Messiah!” whereupon Jesus strictly forbade them to tell anyone that, and then - to their horror - began insisting that he must soon be brutally executed, a statement Peter adamantly rejected, arguing that this could never happen to the Messiah, and causing Jesus to erupt at him, “Get behind me, Satan!”
That anguished outburst suggests what really happened, for only then would Jesus have told his disciples that he along with others had humbly submitted to John’s baptism for sinners in the Jordan, and as he was emerging from the river, a voice revealed to him from heaven something so disturbing that he must struggle against it then and afterward.
The voice told him that he not only was the glorious messianic Son of God expected by many, but also the sacrificially redemptive Isaian servant expected by no one - a revelation so shocking to Jesus that he would immediately be “tempted by Satan” against the necessity of his dying, and at the moment of Peter’s objection, and especially in Gethsemane the last night of his life.
I am a retired pastor of The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) now living in Normal, IL. I am willing to discuss these matters with anyone at any time in any venue, and may be reached at jamezbozwel@aol.com.
It's in common with pseudoscience. They don't have a single good piece of evidence, so instead they pile up plenty of very bad one.
They don't seem to understand that 200 times 0 is still 0.
@@ottosponring5534😢
..
Great episode. I'd love to see Bart do more on alleged OT prophecies, including supposed messianic references in the Psalms.
My favourite thing about Tuesdays..love these insights
Well No!! when Isaiah is completely read you can't take out that portion 53 because all is explained , No Plot holes that allow the Christian misunderstanding.
This has been one of my favorite episodes because of Barts answer when Megan asks if Christian’s are wrong to think the Bible predicts Jesus.
Completely agree. I moderate a Christian theology/mythology reading group which is made up of believers, sceptics and non-believers (like myself), and it is all too common for such discussions to descend into 'debunking' and debating, which achieves absolutely nothing. The world is complex and nuanced, and we should interpret (and accept) it as such.
34:40 - 25:30 "These authors were not thinking about Jesus.They were thinking about situations in their own day. Does that mean it's wrong for Christians to think about the Bible that way? No, it's not wrong… It just wouldn't be a historical reading of the Bible. It would not be trying to see what the author is trying to say. It would be engaging in a religious exercise, a theological exercise, that for many Christians is very positive, where even if you recognize that Isaiah is not talking about a future Messiah, still for you the Bible is a book that somehow conveys the Word of God and somehow God communicates to you through the Bible, so reading the Bible that way could enrich your understanding of how the Bible works for not just historical content but relevance for the plan of God's salvation."
This was a very long winded and extremely diplomatic way for Bart Ehrman to say, "Christians are misinterpreting the Book of Isaiah."
That's not what Bart said
Actually I think he is saying the opposite. Christians are not historically interpreting the Book of Isaiah. But the Bible is not a history book. It is a book meant to provide spiritual guidance to people who already believe, and in that sense, Christians are interpreting the Book of Isaiah correctly.
Not at all. What he is saying is that the book of Isaiah, like all works of literature, can be interpreted in many ways, with no one of them being correct or incorrect. People are perfectly at liberty to interpret works of literature with evidence to reach plausible conclusions as they wish. This concept is at the heart of all literary study.
And, as a side note, not everyone (and certainly not all scholars) are on a mission to prove that Christians are wrong and stupid. This is as exhausting an obsession as any. The world is full of nuance and complexity, and that's what makes it interesting.
I love Bart but he sure is a know-it-all.
The best way to put it is this: you can read a sacred text and develop it further to make it aligned more with being both relevant and timeless (sometimes through relevance, in cases such as new messiah). Sure, if one preserves the words, the development is semantic, and can be called an interpretation. I personally mostly try to find the original meaning behind the words. Sometimes the Christians were aligned, sometimes they weren't, but Christianity has definitely saved Judaism, which goals and methods have been pinnacular catalysts of human civilization. I'm going to have a lunch now.
It took 50 minutes to say "Nothing, because Isaiah couldn't see the future." 😂
Did he say that though?
@Zachary_Setzer no. Lol. But by the end it's all about the projection of later Christians onto the original text. Isaiah never prophesied a martyred Messiah.
50 interesting minutes where you learned a great deal on how to argue against everything a fundamentalist evangelical Christian will throw at you to prove the prophecies were real
@rogeriopenna9014 oh no doubt! Watched the whole episode. Loved it. Was just being cheeky. Us brits can be that way sometimes.
@@rogeriopenna9014 Wondering if we watched the same video. The one I watched was focused on the historical context and what the author meant by what he wrote. A Christian fundamentalist would be happy to say Isaiah may not have intended or even known that he was prophesying about the messiah in addition to speaking to his own era.
The author's intention doesn't rule out the fundamentalist view at all. Bart acknowledges as much around 20 minutes into the video. The context a fundamentalist is using is simply different from the original author's and original audience's context.
There is absolutely nothing in Isaiah about a god-man aka Jesus. The Servant is Israel!
"What did the prophet Isaiah say about Jesus?"
-Nothing.
*Roll credits*
That’s admirable to raise so much money for charity. Especially when you are not yourself very rich
So in the end, there's no barometer for truth. You can just say, "the Bible says what ever I want to believe it says," no matter the historical context of the author b/c God communicates in personal and mysterious ways.
Yes. That's why we have so many different denominations and even religions that draw on these same scriptures.
As important as Isaiah 53 is to Christians, why didn't Jesus himself ever mention Isaiah 53 as a reference to him?
Valid point.
Jesus never mentioned a lot during his life. However the recorded history is all we have. It does not negate Christian beliefs that still function today.
Jesus was a first century Jew, so the idea of a suffering messiah wouldn't have occurred to him.
@@lazykbysLuke 24:25-27 ESV
[25] And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! [26] Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” [27] And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
@@DasWortwurdeFleisch That bit comes after Jesus's resurrection, so as a non-Christian I find it unconvincing. Even if I did, the passage is so vague it could mean anything you want it to mean.
The Catholic Church has based the entire Mary cult on a miss translation if Isaiah.
Wow! Thank you, dear Bart for another mind-stretching analysis of the Bible. My college class on the Bible, at Northwestern University in the 1950s, was taught by a Methodist minister. We learned that there were two Isaiah’s. It was informative to learn that, sometime during the six decades since I took the course, it became clear to scholars that there were at least three authors, living at different times. However, of more profound significance is your analysis of Isaiah in light of the actual historic events taking place at the time the book, or books, were written, and how those events provide a much more obvious and rational explanation of what the author was really saying. What a revelation! Our teacher, a devout and truly lovely man, had no doubt about the prophetic nature of Isaiah. Whether we really accepted this view or not, as students our class was in no position to argue otherwise. Now, more than 60 years later, because of you, I understand these key passages of the Bible in the bright light of a new day.
Excellent!
This seems to be a continuing major source of confusion for many Christians, and I think Bart does a VERY good job of sorting it all out. Many Christians presume large sections and specific passages in Isaiah "obviously" were predictions about Jesus. However, when examined closely, each these passages actually seems to have been talking about someone else - some specific person who had already been born and lived many centuries before the birth of Christ - when these parts of Isaiah were being written. The author(s) of Isaiah clearly had something (and someone) quite different in mind when they wrote these scriptures than what modern Christians generally want to make them be about.
“Is it Jesus…..” Megan 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I’m glad Megan is getting her own well deserved episode.
Is she getting intensely more attractive (brilliant women, wow) or is it just me? 😂
Right? Some inner light of attraction just pushes through her more now, can't be unnoticed. I bet cause of how aligned with God she becomes.
Since I watched this RUclips video about Isaiah, I’ve been inundated with videos about Isaiah 53 all from Christians telling Jews how wrong we are and we don’t have the ability or the right to interpret our own Prophets. The most outrageous was some kid preacher who claimed Jews are not allowed to read Isaiah in synagogues.
oh no - by watching them I guess you've reinforced the algorithm to show you even more!
I love Megan's style
She must have a big collection of eye glasses.
@@BunnyWatson-k1w
As opposed to beer glasses?
{:o:O:}
@@Jaymastia
*_"still Isaiah points to Jesus"_*
No he doesn't.
Ancient kings employed prophets, sooth sayers and seers, not to hear obscure poetry of something that might happen in 600 or 1000 year's time, but to learn what to do *NOW* or in the next couple of months about that hostile king over there who is posing a very real, clear and present danger.
{:o:O:}
@@BunnyWatson-k1w
*_"She must have a big collection of eye glasses."_*
What, as opposed to beer glasses? 🤣🤣
Why the redundancy? You must be American, because everyone else knows from the context that "glasses" are worn for the eyes. 🤓 No one else says "eye glasses" in any language! 😄😄 I bet you don't say "eye monocle"! 🧐
{:o:O:}
Isaiah 45:7 also says, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
Since Jesus is God (Yahweh) and Yahweh says through Isaiah that he creates evil (harm, calamity, natural disaster, personal suffering) then evil must be a necessary part of God's Perfect Plan for Humanity.
I say that Isaiah is a fraud who is convinced that his own internal dialogue is coming from a higher source of revelation.
Gibberish
Thare was a time when I heard the phrase "the word of God", that I sat up in my seat and didn't ask any questions. After listening to Professor Ehrman, I now stand up and ask "How do you know that's the word of God?" The silence has been deafening!! 😇
No no. It’s WordaGod. Spoken as one word. Over and over. Then you can move on to saying, “Is it Biblical?” Over and over. You can intersperse these with “We live in a fallen world” and “God is an awesome God.” If someone comes to you for help with a problem that’s bothering them you can listen intently and after they have poured out their soul you can say piously and dismissively , “I know the answer. Jesus.” Then you can tell the person to read the Bible and “things will happen.” Like some kind of magic trick. It is important to assume this person has not ever read the Bible, has never given Christianity or anything religious a thought and is not “saved” as you are. I think after all of this you go and put a notch in your bedpost or something.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm assuming the answer is "Nothing".
People love patterns, and our brains are pattern-recognition machines. We are fascinated by the idea that people can recognize something coming in the future, which is impossible because it has yet to happen, and educated guessing does not count.
As someone who read the Bible in the middle grades, i feel like there's so much more to Isaiah than Christology.
There's a lot going on on Isaiah. Ezekiel too.
You could write an entire book discussing each and I'm sure people have.
@Jesus_Lied_ReadTheBible
You really think the “offspring” in that verse is literal children?
@@edward1412This person is just trolling.
@Jesus_Lied_ReadTheBibleHow do you know?
EVERYTHING in Isaiah, and indeed in the whole Hebrew Bible, is other than Christology.
LOL I was probably one of the ones talking about Florida. Because it is literally hell down here. And yes, hell does exist, and it is Florida.
Life on earth ia a TEST for human, not the goal.
Happy ever after doesn't exist on earth.
Our current life is simply a test.
As far as we know, this is it! Not a test, not a dress rehearsal. There is no goal that anyone can demonstrate with certainty.
How did you figure that out? Did you get a postcard in the mail from Educational Testing Service for the Universe (but postmarked Princeton, NJ?
A test of what?
There's a very interesting episode on Dr Markus Vinzent's research on Paul on History Valley. Perhaps do an episode about it? And when are we getting the Assyriology with Dr Megan Lewis episodes 😂?
Getting Assyriology with Megan next week they said!
I was always amazed that Isaiah made specific predictions about things that Cyrus King of Persia would do centuries later. Makes me feel a little silly now that I didn't think of the most logical explanation for how he was able to do that.
I know right. Same here.
@@trina2100 Isaiah was always one of those books that I didn't get much from (I read it roughly every 9 months - 1 year in my daily Bible reading) because I felt like I didn't understand what it was talking about a lot of the time. I just read chapters 40-45 again, and it makes so much more sense when you realize it was written after the Babylonian captivity. I really think the Bible is much more interesting as a collection of literature when you take off the fundamentalist glasses.
Prophesy is one of the main reasons why I’m a Christian.
@@edward1412 you probably shouldn't watch this video, then.
@@montagdpI did, and it didn't convince me otherwise.
I never understood the over-hype of a virgin conceiving anyway. Even if Is. used 'virgin' that was not the sign and virgins conceive all the time - that's how they become non-virgins - DUH!!
If Paul had not seen the vision of the Macedonian man he might have gone east instead of west and we might have had first and second Koreans and the letter to the Philippines. :)
Of course if God doesn't exist, everything supernatural in the Bible did not happen. On the other hand, if God does exist, Bart is incorrect in just about everything he says. 🙂
The Messiah in Isaiah is not a conqueror. The Messiah is never a savior of individuals, the Messiah saves the Jewish people and brings about an age of never ending peace, love and understanding.
The Babylonians conquered Judah and Israel and then Cyrus conquered the Babylonians and allowed Jews to return to Judah and Israel. What Christians are doing is reading Isaiah backwards from the point of view of a Christian.
Does Bart really think he’s that smart? Please Bart, interpret every passage in the Bible and tell me exactly what it really means… it’s not as if people millions of times smarter than Bart have never had disagreements on the interpretation of passages. Lots of brilliants Jews have had disagreements on the subject of Isaiah 53. But let’s hear what a barely above average know-it-all has to say 😂
How does he not bring up Jesus directly reading the scroll of Isaiah in Luke chapter 4. And he says “Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing”…..
Isiah who lived in the 8th-7th century BCE (700s-600s BCE) could not have said anything at all about Jesus who lived in the first century CE. Nobody but nobody can make predictions about the future 700 years ahead. Try predicting where the market is going to be ten years hence. The whole business of biblical prophecies, this one especially, is baloney. Isiah wrote about events and people of his time, as any diligent reader and/or historian who bothers to study the context will attest.
You sure?
@@professorparadox795
Qué será, será
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Qué será, será
What will be, will be
Long distance projection 😅
I wish Bart could go on Joe Rogan to set straight all the crazy people he has brought on lately…
Why don't they teach it this way instead of lying and pretending it's about Jesus? Is God going to thank them for lying to people about what is and isn't true prophecy? This is what makes me think preachers don't really believe in the reality of gods, otherwise you think they'd be terrified about committing blasphemy. But they're not terrified, ever. They really don't care about getting it right because deep down they know it's all pretend.
Prior to Jesus, the Jews believed Isaiah 53 was either about Isreal, the Messiah, Hezekiah or Isaiah himself, so Christians claiming that it’s about Jesus (Whom they believe is the Messiah) isn’t a lie.
Even the earliest Christians believed it was about Jesus and this is why Philip explained that passage to the Ethiopian Eunuch before baptising him in Acts 8: 26-40.
You think Dr. Bart’s interpretation of Isaiah 53 would suddenly change how Christians Jews and Christians have interpreted it?
I would encourage you to go and read Isaiah for yourself. One 50 minute episode created by a non-believer shouldn't be your only source of information.
@@jackscalibur Yeah, I just did, and it's super DUPER obvious it's not talking about Jesus AT ALL. How the hell do people profess to believe in a god that demands nobody give false witness and then just go blatantly give false witness in that god's name as if the god isn't going to know or care? It's absolute madness.
@Jesus_Lied_ReadTheBible Please get help.
@@while_coyote So you just read all 66 chapters of Isaiah? Really?
Looking forwards to the interview with Megan next week! I hope you will ask/answer how Megan reconciles a critical understanding of Biblical history with being a Christian (as well as all the cool Mesopotamian stuff of course). I don’t understand how that works, but would like to 🙏🏻👍
That sounds like a good question.
Though of course, most biblical scholars are Christians yet hold to the consensus views that Bart discusses. Even Bart has claimed that none of his scholarly views changed when he stopped being a believer.
@@natew.7951 yeah, I’ve heard Bart and others say this kind of thing. But I don’t really get it. If you know that Jesus didn’t really resurrect, that he didn’t really say most of the things attributed to him in the Bible, that Paul was just hallucinating and what he believed was quite different from Jesus, etc., how do you go on being a Christian? I’m not even sure what being a Christian means if that’s your understanding of the world. So I would be very interested in hearing Megan explain how she sees all that.
@@willmosse3684
But how can scholarship prove Paul was hallucinating?
@@willmosse3684I suppose it depends on what you base your faith on. If you believe that Jesus died for other people's sins (and as a historian, there really isn't any way of proving/disproving that) and that the New Testament was written by people who were inspired by his greatness but weren't concerned about getting the facts right, then I see no reason why you couldn't remain a Christian.
@@willmosse3684That's why I don't really believe Megan is saved.
I really like how Bart responds to the last question. That’s where the rubber hits the road. As a believer myself I fully concede that seeing Jesus in Isaiah is not supported historically, but read through the window of faith, those passages can still be very powerful.
What is "the window of faith "?😮
@@andrewmays3988 strange question. Are you a bot?
@@brettkeeler8822 I don't think they're a bot. I second the question
@@its-niaaaa_ 100% a bot. It never even responded. “Window” = your worldview. So “window of faith” means having a believing worldview. Point being, these passages can be powerful for believers, even if not supported by the historical evidence.
@@brettkeeler8822That's a conversation I had with one of my mentors. We both concede that historically, it's not immediately clear, but spiritually, it's much more so.
What the Church has done and what Christians still do with Isaiah is no better than the way people treat Nosradamus's so-called prophecies.
Blessings upon you! Dishes are done and I’ve learned some things. Amazing what ends up being believed when ardent preachers are intent on picking verses to make their preferred point.
God Bless, Bart Ehrman!
Raising $500k/year for charity in the Lord's name!
I suspect Paul was working on or studying Isaiah when he had his revelation of Jesus. His vision of Jesus is a recognition of Jesus fitting in his mind the concepts of Isaiah. Suddenly it all 'made sense' to him in his current times.
In Acts 8:26-40, Philip attributed Isaiah 53 to Jesus, so that’s what the earliest Christians also believed.
Exactly what year was anything written down attributed to Isaiah - and what year in history was it taught to people .
There are no prophets, just false prophets alias conmen and madmen.
Actually, Orthodox Tewahedo Churches (Ethiopia & Eritra) have different New Testament, they have 32 book in the New Testament and 81 in the whole Bible, it´s the largest canon in the number of books.
Stop this lie😂😂😂 They have 27 books of NT. I am Ethiopian.
Long story short it says nothing about Jesus.
Megan’s hair is stunning in this one 🤩 🦋🌸👓These podcasts are truly fascinating, the topics are so interesting, their voices are great, and their amiable chemistry excellent for a podcast but Megan’s style alone makes me want to watch these via yt 😁
Paul, the first corporate franchise.
I love the actual intellectual discussion in these videos but I have to say, I find the chit-chat at the beginning of these videos tiresome. It’s the reason I don’t watch more of these videos. You should consider putting in a timestamp in the description for people who want to get to the point, which I’m guessing is the majority of viewers.
5:47 is where the content advertised in the title of this video begins.
The Hebrew Bible talks about a young girl but Septuagint talks a bout a young virgin birth. So Isaiah has no connection to the prediction of Jesus.
The septuagint was translated by jews prior to Jesus. They called her a virgin. This was their own choice of translation.
I absolutely love your podcast and appreciate getting so much insight into the Bible. It is so fascinating.
I was taught to believe in a literal understanding of the Bible, so this is very healing.
I’m dreaming of you two doing an episode about the Book of Mormon one day. Or perhaps a whole book?
The Book of Mormon is full of Bible prophecies and stories that never happened (like the tower of Babel). It contains chapters from Isaiah that should not be found in the Book of Mormon when looking at the timelines. Lots of anachronisms, people baptizing and living as Christians before Jesus was even born.
I know you have done an episode on the Mormon Stories Podcast, but I feel there is so much material to be debunked 🤪
I would love to have some good points to present to people why the Book of Mormon is full of made-up and plagiarized material.
He did an interview with a Mormon podcaster at one point. It was amusing when Bart was asked about textual criticism of the Book of Mormon and his response was basically that it was all nonsense.
@@godminnette2 Yes, I have watched the MS Podcast, but I feel like there is so much more material to talk about.
I take it you're LDS, or are an ex-mo. My guess is most scholars in Religious Studies (Ehrman included) don't take the Book of Mormon seriously.
I laughed at the whole Laminites story and how Levi or someone pushed off in a boat 600 BCE and popped over to the USA (convenient as that's all Joe Smith knew 😅).
When your eyes are opened to the truth about religious texts like the Bible, Koran, and Book of Mormon you can focus on the true messages found in Christianity. Your religious experience becomes much more satisfying.
Megan asks the best questions!
I'm going out on a limb and suggest that Isaiah's prophecy weren't free. The King is wanting answers to immediate problems and is not paying for future predictions centuries from now.
I must disagree with you on one point. Throughout my lifetime, I have been a Roman Catholic, an Orthodox, and a Protestant, and all three have differences in the books of their Bibles. Protestants have the smallest Bible, with Roman Catholics having several additional books in their Bibles, but the Orthodox add a few more that the Roman Catholics do not have.
@WH6FQE: What you are writing about, is the "Old Testament",
and the "Deutero-Canonical" books which were originally not written in Hebrew (such as Tobit, Maccabees etc).
Protestants call those books "Apocrypha", and do not consider them as inspired Holy Scripture.
The question in minute 41:29 of the video, however, was about the 27 books of the "_New_ Testament",
and these are the same for the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches;
except the arrangement of Martin Luther's Translation, where "Hebrews" and "James" are shifted almost to the end.
THIS IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HIM and if someone dpoes not get the correlation/WHILE AS A 15 year old, I read ISAIAH 53 /with Psalm 22. I WAS SO KNOCKED OUT , nothing has changed for me- To reject that is NOT Christ?? I do not know what to tell you... THIS IS CHRIST. I take you on- How can a NON Christian not see it!!! How can you BartBlow it off- You know what it is talking about!!! You cannot find particular ful;fillments in "other predictions" Ohg Brother , like we do not know a prophecy can have more than one fulfillment. HOW CAN YOU ARGUR VS IT
Sounds Like He Talking About Muhammad Pbuh
Hello! Isaiah speaking about the Author of the whole Scriptures and true Lord Isaiah 12:2 KJV and Isaiah 26:4 KJV and his name alone is the most high Psalm 83;18 KJV
THIS IS SALVIFIC CHRISTIANITY- Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all. How many PIERCED? How many , ran away, It matters not if he sees it as a past tense! THe Lord has laid upon him the INIQUITY OF US ALL? IT PLEASDED THE :LORD TO CRUSH HIM!! CMON!
If you’re a 1st century follower of Jesus and
1. You saw Him perform miracles
2. Heard Him claim divinity
3. Heard Him predict His death
4. Saw Him resurrected
5. Heard Him say the OT is about Him (Luke 24:44, John 5:46, mt 5:17-18)
Then how could you not think that Isaiah (a prophet so it would be part of Luke 24:44) is talking about Jesus?
How could you not think that divinely inspired words are not about someone who is clearly divine after He Himself said the inspired words are about Him?
So to say they retroactively applied these to Him is misleading because you’re trying to use it to demonstrate that they just made it up to fit the narrative. They did retroactively apply it, but after all of the other aforementioned context occurred…
But if the narrative was real, and they were willing to die for it, then MAYBE (more than maybe) they are accurately interpreting the scripture given to them.
God: You are my servant, Israel.
Christians: Nono, let me tell you who you really mean! It's errr, YOU! You are your servant!!!
God: ...
What Did the Prophet Tucker Carlson Say About Candace Owens?
The summer heat is even brutal for many Floridians, it's the rest of the year that puts a smile on our face. You have to be a bit of a snow bird to follow the mild weather where ever it may be.
him who was given dominion over fish of the sea, and fowl of the air blessed and told go, and ...more to now...Rate our grade, thus far.
Interesting that Bart believes that verses including 40 speaks of the Nation. But wait in Isaiah 40:3-5 states " a voice of one calling in the wilderness prepare the way for the Lord ( YHWH), make straight in the desert a highway for your GOD! ...... wait, it was a prophesy which is explained in Mark and John. Mark 1:2-3 clearly makes it clear that the Lord (YHWH) in Mark and John is Jesus Christ not a man made name Jehovah or any other name or person. So was Isaiah prophesying of who that servant is in Isaiah 53. Jesus said " did not come to be served, but to serve" ....thats a servant. Moses prophesied that God will raise up a prophet like him from among the Israelites. Revelation 22:9 " I am thy fellowservant..... again a servant.
It is a bit strange to apply a historical perspective to a PROPHECY. In other words, the question: "What did the PROPHET mean?" is implying he actually meant anything. Well, he didn't himself. He was a prophet. The meaning was done by GOD, a prophet is just a messenger. Once you accept this obvious fact, the terms and concpets, as, eg, people of Israel, get more fluid and less fixed to a particular historical moment.
Weather? It’s going to be 110F today where I live. 🥵
In Maine my pellet stove is still coming on in the morning. But it’s about 75 by afternoon. Occasionally we see 90.
@@marymagnuson5191 I went to ninth grade in Presque Isle. 🥶 My dad was stationed there in the Air Force. Shoveling snow from our driveway, we had a pile that touched the telephone lines. It actually snowed a bit on Memorial Day. ❄️
Invite Sam Shamoun on to contest these things. Be fair and balanced towards believers. Sam doesnt have a doctorate, but I guarantee you that you wont be dissapointed by his knowledge of scripture in the languages they were originally written. The argument Bart made about Isaiah 7:14 and the use of the word "virgin" vs. young woman is debunked by Sam. He's read and studied the New Testament in Greek, and speaks and reads Greek fluently. He's read and studied the Tanakh in Hebrew, and speaks and reads Hebrew fluently, and he knows the church history very well, the church fathers. He also reads and studies the Quran in Arabic, and reads and speaks Arabic fluently. For the past 30 years he's traveled all around the world and debated atheists, Muslims, Rabbis, and other Christian denominations about scripture and Church history. That interview would get some views😃
Hello! Jesus is the son of the highest Luke 1;32 KJV he is not God, Scriptures tells us who God Almighty is Exodus 6;3 KJV
If the passages in Isaiah are NOT prophecy, and they speak of Isreal, not Christ or Jesus, then WHAT and WHERE precisely are the Prophecies regarding THE Jewish Messiah? And also wouldn't Jesus have knownthat the passages were NOT PROPHECY? If not, if he wasnt sure or didnt know then why is that? Wouldnt the rabbi's have instructed at least on a basic level what is prophecy and what is just part of the storyline?
Well judaism have two messiahs or messianic stages ..one is the massiach ben Joseph and the other is the massiach ben david. Two instances...so who copied who, when this Jewish teaching was born? Is was widely known in 2do temple judaism ? Or its just an ulterior explanation after the council of jamnia...
Christians know Isaiah's context. We're not stupid. But for many, those words themselves, though out of context, have powerful meaning beyond coincidence. James Tabor has said that Christians take these words out of context, and he adds that it's OK to do that.
Wikipedia, which is a faultless encyclopedia, says that Jesus quotes Isaiah 53 to himself in Luke 22:37, and in Mark in 10:45, Jesus alludes to this passage. So, there, Bart
Jesus was a prophet
John 20:17 - The New King James Version (NKJV). 17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God
Will you have a future discussion on "The Ascend of James" vis-a-vis the Old Testament?
*Megan, the people speaking in Isaiah 53 are the kings of nations who are mentioned in Isaiah 52, The servant is Israel (AKA - Jacob, hense 'He') and the remnant of Israel.*
Chapter 53 is a continuation of 52
Isaiah 52:
15 *So shall he cast down many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him,* for, what had not been told them they saw, and [at] what they had not heard they gazed.
Here's another prophecy about the astonishment of the nations:
*Micah 7*
16 Nations shall see and be ashamed of all their might-they shall place a hand upon their mouth; their ears shall become deaf.
*See Zephaniah 3: 12-13 about the remnant of israel*
But I will leave within you the meek and humble. The *remnant of Israel will trust in the name of the Lord.* 13 They will do no wrong; they will tell no lies. A deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouths. They will eat and lie down and no one will make them afraid.”
*Plus, verse 8 specifically refers to the servant as a plurality - LAMO can only refer to a group of people, it means 'to them'. Let me know if you'd like proof of that from the scripture.*
*Just to show you the differences in the translations, see how verse 5 is correctly translated (Chabad):*
But he was *pained* *because* (not for!) of our transgressions, crushed *because* of our iniquities; the *chastisement of our welfare* was upon him, and *with his wound* we were healed.
Book of Isaaha,
Has Prophecies in it about a Future Man of GOD to come.
We Muslims assert these prophecies fit Prophet Muhammad more than Jesus,.... Who Christian claim was a God in the form of a Man.
Jesus's response to King Abgar, sung to the tune of "Miss Otis Regrets":
The messiah regrets he's unable to heal thee today, Abgar,
For he's got other things to do down Jerusalem way.
He's headed for execution,
But - don't worry! - he'll send a substitution, Abgar.
The messiah regrets he's unable to heal thee today.
Paul took it all to Greece, perhaps Rome, notice; he knew their sophistication, in politics, debate, dramatic theatre, historical writing, philosophy, science ...
They'd take it to the world.
Thanks for another informative show!
And for the dying god archetype, you might see it cosmically!
ruclips.net/video/t7EAlTcZFwY/видео.htmlsi=C9eb7mpWQFCywp94
Isaiah predicts the future, it comes true. Atheists 2700 years later, "It cant be prophecy because I dont believe in God, therefore these passages must have been written after the prophesized events, Im going to use those "prophesized" events as a means of dating when they were authored in order to delegitimize them". Atheism is a religion. They interpret the Bible a similar way a unitarian interprets it, or as a Muslim would interpret the Bible, a jehovahs witness, a Mormon, which is they all interpret it from a preconceived notion, they wear atheist glasses when they read and research scripture, and/or are fooled by peoples they look up to who interpret it a certain way. Plenty of New Testament Scholars who are just as knowledgeable, if not more knowledgeable than Bart, believe In Christ the lord. Sam Shamoun would destroy Bart in a debate. Lets make it happen!
Digging into the question more ptoperly, by whom and by what the suffering, that was taken over by the Servant, was caused would lead to answer why Christ "had" to take the cross
Think I made this comment again but it's worth repeating. The part where Megan, who I am still crushing on, asks who's doing the suffering and why. If you're reading in Hebrew it's a lot easier but even in English translations. Start by reading the last few verses of Isaiah 52. The chapter break between 52 and 53 is artificial. Torah scrolls don't have them. Who is speaking at the end of 52? It is the kings of the nations. Then they say who would have believed our report? Let it goes in 53 to discuss the topic that Megan his addressing to Dr Ehrman. Translations in English are mistaken. The Kings of the earth discuss how the servant, who we now know is Israel, suffereds because of their sins. Not the sins of the Israelites or more specifically of Judah, the sins of the nations against God's people. If you have any interest in syntax and grammatical structure there's a difference in the meaning of a word that is preceded by the Hebrew letter lamed or mem. Look at the Hebrew and it all becomes crystal clear.
Could it be prophet from the kingdom of Juda saying how the kingdom of Jerusalem han suffered with the destroyed temple. And if course it was because of sins
If you read in the context of its time, you could read it to predict the coming of Cyrus who conquered the land and permitted Jews to return. The Hebrew Bible ends with Chronicles II, not Malachi’s like the Christian “Old” Testament does.
With his philantrophic actions, Bart has earned his place in heaven! 😊
/s
Ok. I would think you would be sensitive enough not to use European Faces to represent inhabitants of Palestine in the 1st century. Now continue....
Title is amusing!!! How could Isaiah have said anything about Jesus. He came centuries before Jesus was born. Even the statement doesn't make sense.
I find it remarkable that Bart couldn't answer Magen what Isaiah 53 is actually talking about. Any interpretation would have been better than 'it's just abstract metaphor.disconnected from reality'. Maybe had he understood it he would see why it's a problem for both Jews and Christians.
2nd Isaiah finds himself in the Babylonian exile, and unlike the 1st Isaiah who managed to save Jufah from being exiled, this one knows God wanted the Jews exiled, and that is despite them trying to be good and listening to their prophets so as not to repeat the Northern kingdoms fate. But nothing helped. He needs to come up with an alternative explanation, and the suffering servant songs are that.
In 52/53 the kings of the nations witness the Israelite miraculous restoration, like weeds in the desert, and they can't believe what they see. God is with the Israelites, which they thought he abandoned because they were always sick and despised by everyone for their weakness. But they realize that God was punishing the Israelites for the sins of the nations, and if they are willing to silently take that punishment and remain righteous they will be also vastly rewarded with longevity and treasures. How does that make sense together I don't know, but it's neither Christian nor Jewish.
The only bit of truth to it, why God allowed this scripture to be preserved, is that God did punish the Israelites with exile, and helped them in the diaspora. They had failed as role models in Israel as a powerhouse for merchants passing by, so they will face adversity, double down and serve as role models in exile. That was always the plan, that is the Israeli covenant. So they did suffer for the sins of others disproportionately because they didn't set a good enough example. When they did, they were rewarded disproportionately as well.
Carl Jung would have said that the Suffering Servant is an archetype, which we can define as a mythological motif. The Roman Catholic religious classes of my youth did not differ from this when they described the Suffering Servant as a Type of Christ; there are supposedly many such types in the Old Testament. The significance of the passage in Isaiah cannot be limited by the author’s intentions if it is real prophecy, for prophecy arises in the non-rational and non-ego-centered parts of the brain, just as dreams do. Archetypes seem eager to be embodied and fulfilled, and an archetype will choose a man or woman for its embodiment even as the human being chooses it. In such cases a man or woman now has an archetypal life and must sacrifice his or her personal life to it. The life of such a person now conforms itself to the myth and has a mythical or divine significance. The same archetype will appear again and again as the centuries pass. We seem compelled to recognize Jesus in the prophesy of Isaiah not simply because we have heard the passage interpreted that way in church, but because Jesus became the Suffering Servant with inimitable sincerity.
Don't you understand that prophecy of a future event is given in past trnse? Genesis 17v5, Romans 4v17.
"If an historical reading isn't your only guidance..." This sounds like an attempt to not offend rather than answering the question. If i can read it/understand it by my faith (whatever that means), then it can mean anything. And if it can mean anything, then it means nothing. If Isaia is not predicting a future Messiah, then he is not predicting that. My "beliefs" are not relevant. Again, I can claim "by faith" it means this, but on what solid ground am I basing this meaning? I can do the same for anything I come across. A falling leaf might be god speaking to me, telling me to worship trees. I'm not trying to be flippant here, but Ehrman's stance on this question is a poor diplomatic execution at best. Or to put it simply, if anything goes, then nothing goes. And if a religion is based upon that, it is founded on nonsense, no matter how clever or eloquent it may be written.
Isaiah's prophecy operates on two levels: an immediate reference to Israel and a greater, ultimate fulfillment in Jesus. The language in Isaiah 53, describing an individual bearing the sins of others, seems to fit Jesus more directly than the nation of Israel. There's been a number of ancient Jewish interpretations that also recognized the servant as a messianic figure even prior to Christianity
So Bart is saying that the historical Jesus did NOT predict his own crucifixion?
I know this is a trick question (Isaiah didn't know Jesus) but I'll watch the video anyway.
I know they do this and try to find proof in old testimony- BUT no need! If Jesus and the father are one and Jesus is doing His will- why anyone one earth needs proof- instead of worshipping and being holy. If it is altogether not true - why bother; it’s then just „fairytale“!
LOL for people who watch/listen to this every week we are tired of hearing about Jesus' letter to the king of Edessa.... 😂
I have to say, "Ay-seh-ah" is a very weird pronunciation of Yesayah even for English standards.
As always this has been immensely fascinating!
Bart u used to say Palestine but now u, ve changed and use Israel while referencing Jesus (pbuh) time and time before it of the holy land, someone has issues with u using Palestine?
If you exchange Israel for the servant in the suffering servant part of Isiah. It doesn't make any sense. Why would the Israelite people be a guilt offering for sins. It also describes the servant as a man
Read; "Romans Proves Paul Lied - have we inherited lies from our fathers?"