I have been using the Magtech brass shotshells for the past year to make .577 snyder cases. You have to cut them down and anneal them so you can run them through a forming die. I've made about 50 cartridge cases this way so far.
I don't know what to say. Mine crimps, but I need every bit of case length to reach the crimp shoulder. Originally I wasn't going deep enough to hit the crimp shoulder. What I was doing then was running the finished case back into the sizing die, just far enough to put a taper crimp on the case mouth (with the de-capping pin removed of course). You might try that.
@duelist1954 Thank you..I ordered 2 wood and 2 steel to try them. Lee makes a good line of product. Really like your no nonsense videos also. Keep em coming Mike
Tap that black powder measure hard a few times to settle the powder, to make it an accurate measure, and then top it off and load it. Definitely want a card wad between the powder and ball, and powder and bullet. No air space between the powder and the bullet. Chamfering the mouth edge of your brass will help loading the bullets. Historically the bullets were gently crimped into the shell. That gun should be shooting 2 inch groups at 100 yards, not just at 25 yards. If you improve your loads, it will perform as it did historically.
Thanks Mike. Thats what Ive been doing. Be sure and try that load. I discovered it while reading "The Handbook of Rifle Shooting" By Lieut. Alex Lord Russel Published 1869
I use Jameson brass. I just measured 10 of them...1.97". Do you have calipers or a micrometer. If you cut your brass to 2"" it may be shorter after forming the case?
Yup, I have a nice pair of digital calipers and I use a machining lathe to cut down my brass. It doesn't seem to matter how far up I force the shell into the die it just wont crimp. I did however figure out a load that would yield a 2" group consistently at 50 yards using a mini ball. The key was 75gr of 1F powder, and filling the base of the mini ball with wax. You should try it! And keep up the good work! I love your youtube vids and articles!
The Natural Man you might try placing the brass case on top of the shell holder while crimping. I’ve had to do that for 45/70 brass and it worked great. Just give it light pressure to start until you get the crimp you want.
@craftymaggot I ordered them right off the Lee Precision web site. They recently came out with a steel block in lieu of the wooden blocks. I got three of those and mounted all my presses on them. I still use the wooden blocks for other tools like my Lubrisizers...great products!
I have been reloading .577 for 7 months now . I use Magtech brass 24 ga. shot shells cut down to 1.95" . I anneal the first 3/4" for forming in my Lee setup. My recipe is 70 gr. of GOEX 1f , 15 gr. of Polenta , and a felt wad compressed with a 3/8' nut driver . The Mini-ball is .578 dipped in Crisco/beeswax lubricant . My shooting is so accurate , I hit the berm every time . Check Rustywood in BC for Magtech , $ 59.95/25 shells and JET bullets in ALTA. for mini-balls in .578 . Up here to buy boolits is like $ 12.00 each ? I can reload for $ 3.50 CDN . We love our 1870 Enfield and am looking for a carbine next .
@biplanes4ever I know a champion flintlock shooter who won't shoot anything but 1Fg powder. I use 1Fg in shotshells when I have it, but I generally don't go coarser than 2Fg. Unless a powder company gives me some 1Fg...which happens from time to time. Though for awhile I was using 1.5Fg Swiss powder in .45-70.
@markthenav Mark, I really couldn't say without checking out your guns myself. The barrel on my Snyder is stamped "Cold Drawn Steel", which is significantly stronger than Damascus. However, 75 grains isn't a ridiculously strong load. I'd have a gunsmith check the barrels for separations, and , if they are good to go, I think you'll be OK.
What size in decimal balls do you use? I’ve read that the .600 caliber balls are too wide to chamber in the breach using the 24 gauge shotgun hulls. Track of the Wolf has .580 and .595 caliber balls.
I don't reuse shotshells after shooting with black powder. The heat is too intense. It dries out the plastic. You need 209 shotgun primers in the shotshells.
I have an obsolete Ideal 585213 minie ball mold if you want to borrow it to makes some bullets. They should fit tighter in the fired brass and engage the rifling better.
I load and shoot for the Snider and enjoyed this video. My question may be off subject but what is and where can I get the bench base that the press is attached to. I also seen these in a Lee advert. Thanks Mike
Thanks I've been searching for .590 mini balls and round balls do you cast your own and if so do you know where to get a mold for these your videos are very helpful thank you
How did you choose the .60 ball? I would love to reload for my new snider but I’m concerned about throwing in a ball that could be too big? Any advice?
also i recommend you to watch britishmuzzleloaders' video about reloading for the snider if you are interested in shooting bullets and not balls in the future. You don't need many tools. He uses brass shotgun cases and fireforms them. The primer he punches out with a punch and hammer and puts the case and primer on something flat and uses a hammer with a plank between them idk exactly anymore. Idk what mold he used but he greases the casted bullets and put them in the case by hand, the bullet stays put because of the grease, just make sure your filler wont compress. So you don't need expensive .577 dies or any dies at all.
The plastic shotshells barely go in the chamber ,yes I trimmed to 2 inch ,they push in extremely hard ,,,what's up with that ,please advise ? P.s. The brass cased ones are no problem that I made from Magtech 24 ga shot shells
Thank you excellent video, one question is the brass you are using factory annealed? or you anneal them? and if you do what procedure you are using? Thank you
Your videos and others convinced me to pick up a Mark III Snider. I'm thinking I'll splurge on a box of factory ammo and reload those after they're fire formed. I'm looking at a Lee R.E.A.L. mold in .592. Any thoughts?
Why do you use such a long drop tube on your powder thru expander die? Can’t you just put the funnel on the top of the die just like you can on every other powder thru die? I sit while reloading and would hate to have to stand while pouring powder every time I made a cartridge. Thanks
@camerl2009 all that said i dont own a rifled snider i own a smoothbore snider that was done by someone in the eraly 1900's its bored out to .600" and i use it with 24ga brass and shot or a .600 round ball i also found out the the lyman 345 grain slug works nicely
+Braden Robertson The lube helps keep fouling soft and reduce leading. Cleaning without lube would be a NIGHTMARE. Especially with the Snider, you want LOTS of lube.
The original round was never a flat based .600 bullet, that's a modern reloader method of avoiding the difficulty in making the proper projectile. The Mark 9 snider round went as follows "the final version the Mark IX has a 480 gr bullet it is 1.04 in long ,diameter is 0.573 in ,diameter over lubricant is 0.577 in it has 3 saw tooth cannelures no wooden nose plug and a clay base plug." The issue for modern shooters is the base plug required to expand the bullet into the rifling. To avoid this part a modern shooter fires a groove diameter .600 round and some fill the base of their .575 minies with lube and size the brass to the original config. I think the .600 method is the easier and the one I intend to employ myself (just bought one so I have been reading on the subject of snider ammo!!) :) I'd love to know the details on how the clay plug was made/fired..
magtech makes brass 24 gauge shells a box of 25 is fairly cheap (at least cheaper than the real snider brass that you said is $3 a case) a quick google search should turn some up.
@twoeagles23 too small on the od and way too long to work in most sniders the snider workes best with a .595 to .600 bullet theres 2 twist rates for the snider 1 in 78 and 1 in 48 the 1 in 78 works well with a short bullet and the .600 round ball works nicely and the 1 in 48 will work good with longer bullets the minis being a hollow base makes them long for the weight and thay done work too well
Hey Mike, you may or may not have any use for this info. A RUclips channel by the name of britishmuzzleloaders has a great two-part video on reloading the 577 Snider. He shows how he gets great accuracy with brass cases and conical bullets. it is very interesting and thorough. Here's a link to part 1: m.ruclips.net/video/lNgQi4vEDXM/видео.html
Thanks for doing this. I've been forming the cases for my 577 Snider from 24 gauge brass. Now I think I will try the regular shotgun cases.
I have been using the Magtech brass shotshells for the past year to make .577 snyder cases. You have to cut them down and anneal them so you can run them through a forming die. I've made about 50 cartridge cases this way so far.
X-Ring Services makes bullet molds for these and other old Brit guns, excellent quality.
IF you can reach them.
I don't know what to say. Mine crimps, but I need every bit of case length to reach the crimp shoulder. Originally I wasn't going deep enough to hit the crimp shoulder. What I was doing then was running the finished case back into the sizing die, just far enough to put a taper crimp on the case mouth (with the de-capping pin removed of course). You might try that.
@duelist1954
Thank you..I ordered 2 wood and 2 steel to try them. Lee makes a good line of product.
Really like your no nonsense videos also.
Keep em coming
Mike
Tap that black powder measure hard a few times to settle the powder, to make it an accurate measure, and then top it off and load it. Definitely want a card wad between the powder and ball, and powder and bullet. No air space between the powder and the bullet. Chamfering the mouth edge of your brass will help loading the bullets. Historically the bullets were gently crimped into the shell. That gun should be shooting 2 inch groups at 100 yards, not just at 25 yards. If you improve your loads, it will perform as it did historically.
Very good video on the .577 reloading.
@fishblade2 To keep the black powder fouling soft and to prevent leading the bore.
Thanks Mike. Thats what Ive been doing.
Be sure and try that load. I discovered it while reading
"The Handbook of Rifle Shooting"
By Lieut. Alex Lord Russel
Published 1869
you know you can use magtech 24ga brass shotshells instead of jamisons or bertram brass? the same ones you use to form .577-.450boxer
@aiolos60 I use Jameson brass, which hasn't needed annealing yet.
Excellent video, very informative!
I use Jameson brass. I just measured 10 of them...1.97". Do you have calipers or a micrometer. If you cut your brass to 2"" it may be shorter after forming the case?
Yup, I have a nice pair of digital calipers and I use a machining lathe to cut down my brass. It doesn't seem to matter how far up I force the shell into the die it just wont crimp. I did however figure out a load that would yield a 2" group consistently at 50 yards using a mini ball. The key was 75gr of 1F powder, and filling the base of the mini ball with wax. You should try it!
And keep up the good work! I love your youtube vids and articles!
The Natural Man you might try placing the brass case on top of the shell holder while crimping. I’ve had to do that for 45/70 brass and it worked great. Just give it light pressure to start until you get the crimp you want.
@craftymaggot I ordered them right off the Lee Precision web site. They recently came out with a steel block in lieu of the wooden blocks. I got three of those and mounted all my presses on them. I still use the wooden blocks for other tools like my Lubrisizers...great products!
@hatter78 0.600 inches. I picked them up at an 18th century encampment, but I'm pretty sure Dixie Gun Works or Track of the Wolf carries them.
Do you use any kind of wad or filler?
Excellent presentation. Very useful. Thanks.
Can’t seem to find the red primed shotshell case anywhere even on grafs. What’s the deal?
Have you tried using a wad over the powder in the brass cases? You might see an improvement in accuracy.
I have been reloading .577 for 7 months now . I use Magtech brass 24 ga. shot shells cut down to 1.95" . I anneal the first 3/4" for forming in my Lee setup. My recipe is 70 gr. of GOEX 1f , 15 gr. of Polenta , and a felt wad compressed with a 3/8' nut driver . The Mini-ball is .578 dipped in Crisco/beeswax lubricant . My shooting is so accurate , I hit the berm every time . Check Rustywood in BC for Magtech , $ 59.95/25 shells and JET bullets in ALTA. for mini-balls in .578 . Up here to buy boolits is like $ 12.00 each ? I can reload for $ 3.50 CDN . We love our 1870 Enfield and am looking for a carbine next .
Sad to say, JET is no more. I used to order .600 bullets from them.
I use a solid-base .590" bullet. I cast them from a custom mold made by Mountain Molds.
@biplanes4ever I know a champion flintlock shooter who won't shoot anything but 1Fg powder. I use 1Fg in shotshells when I have it, but I generally don't go coarser than 2Fg. Unless a powder company gives me some 1Fg...which happens from time to time. Though for awhile I was using 1.5Fg Swiss powder in .45-70.
@markthenav Mark, I really couldn't say without checking out your guns myself. The barrel on my Snyder is stamped "Cold Drawn Steel", which is significantly stronger than Damascus. However, 75 grains isn't a ridiculously strong load. I'd have a gunsmith check the barrels for separations, and , if they are good to go, I think you'll be OK.
👍 Danke fürs Hochladen!
👍 Thanks for uploading!
👍 Very good and beautiful, thank you!
👍 Sehr gut und schön, danke!
how did you prime the case, or did I miss something? That is really neat gun and cartridge thanks.
What size in decimal balls do you use? I’ve read that the .600 caliber balls are too wide to chamber in the breach using the 24 gauge shotgun hulls. Track of the Wolf has .580 and .595 caliber balls.
I think I have some Goex Express 1Fg around...I'll give it a try.
I think you may not be getting deep enough into the dies. Maybe your brass is short?
How do you clean the plastic shell and what primer do you use,if you just decap the center primer can you use a large pistol primer.
New to this cartridge... what's the purpose of the drop tube vs just pouring my load straight into the case?
M.C. Stewart it settles the powder better allowing you to get more powder in, and fill the case to a consistent level
You mentioned using a .595 minie ball , who makes those moulds and where can you get them ?
I don't reuse shotshells after shooting with black powder. The heat is too intense. It dries out the plastic. You need 209 shotgun primers in the shotshells.
I have an obsolete Ideal 585213 minie ball mold if you want to borrow it to makes some bullets. They should fit tighter in the fired brass and engage the rifling better.
I cut my brass off at 2in What size do you use?
I load and shoot for the Snider and enjoyed this video.
My question may be off subject but what is and where can I get the bench base that the press is attached to. I also seen these in a Lee advert.
Thanks
Mike
It is a Lee product. Great product.
Thanks I've been searching for .590 mini balls and round balls do you cast your own and if so do you know where to get a mold for these your videos are very helpful thank you
Hello ,can you use a minié ball with the 24 gauge shot shell ? or only rond ball ?
How did you choose the .60 ball? I would love to reload for my new snider but I’m concerned about throwing in a ball that could be too big?
Any advice?
also i recommend you to watch britishmuzzleloaders' video about reloading for the snider if you are interested in shooting bullets and not balls in the future.
You don't need many tools. He uses brass shotgun cases and fireforms them. The primer he punches out with a punch and hammer and puts the case and primer on something flat and uses a hammer with a plank between them idk exactly anymore. Idk what mold he used but he greases the casted bullets and put them in the case by hand, the bullet stays put because of the grease, just make sure your filler wont compress. So you don't need expensive .577 dies or any dies at all.
just push some balls through the barrel and measure it
Do you use any sort of wad in between the bullet and the powder?
The plastic shotshells barely go in the chamber ,yes I trimmed to 2 inch ,they push in extremely hard ,,,what's up with that ,please advise ? P.s. The brass cased ones are no problem that I made from Magtech 24 ga shot shells
How do you crimp your rounds? My lee dies don't crimp...
Thank you excellent video, one question is the brass you are using factory annealed? or you anneal them? and if you do what procedure you are using? Thank you
Your videos and others convinced me to pick up a Mark III Snider. I'm thinking I'll splurge on a box of factory ammo and reload those after they're fire formed. I'm looking at a Lee R.E.A.L. mold in .592. Any thoughts?
Just curious, is it safe to use the higher 85 grain charge in the plastic shotshells, or should I stick with 70 grains? Thanks in advance!
What size is the 60 caliber ball? Do you make your own? Where do you get them from? Great video thank you very much for making it!!!!!
Great video
brass 24 ga casings are $1 each at Midway USA. Takes large pistol primers
Forgive my ignorance, but the obvious question came to mind: what happens if you were to fire a Minie conical bullet out of a shotshell hull?
can you drop minies in the regular shotshell hulls? or just roundball
Minies are too loose, but, pack them with enough lube, and they’ll work
@@duelist1954 cool thanks for the info
do you not need a wad between black powder and hollow base bullets? That's a large air space you have!
What kind of primers must you use for the round-ball load? Will standard shotgun primers work?
Large rifle primers
I can't find the shells. Anywhere. Any idea on where they might be found? Any help would be appreciated. Nice video, by the way.
Vaughn Blaylock they can be made from 24gauge solid brass shells
Great video!
How did your .584 minie perform in your fireformed case at the range?
They are a little loose in the shell. Use a little extra lube to hold them in place and they'll shoot OK.
I’ve been wanting a Snider for a while but I can’t find one.
Why do you use such a long drop tube on your powder thru expander die? Can’t you just put the funnel on the top of the die just like you can on every other powder thru die? I sit while reloading and would hate to have to stand while pouring powder every time I made a cartridge. Thanks
Steve G a drop Tube settles big loads of black powder. Let’s you get a consistent max volume powder charge.
Question how far to you trim the brass case before you size it and what specific bullet size do you load in them
can you use 28 gauge plastic shot shell to ?
I notice you do not use a filler does the bullet touch the powder or is there a gap.
It touches the powder
Ever tried loading a .577 minie ball in a 24 gauge shotgun shell. Would it work?
and when you reloading with a minié ball with the .24 gauge shell you use a .577 ball or to small ?
why do you use the lube?
I think it would be safe, but in my experience with Sniders, accuracy declines as powder charges go up.
So, there is an antique Snider in a nearby shop, pretty good condition. But, it is 900 dollars and the ammo is expensive.
Is it worth it?
That seems pretty high to me.
@@duelist1954 hmm. How much was the Snider you have? Is it antique?
@@kalvinchester4068 I paid $300 for it, in rough shape...worth about $700 now, after a gentle restoration
@@duelist1954 the one at the shop is practically new, save for the aging due to how old it is.
Kalvin Chester I would not spend $900 on it, but if you want it, go for it.
@camerl2009 all that said i dont own a rifled snider i own a smoothbore snider that was done by someone in the eraly 1900's its bored out to .600" and i use it with 24ga brass and shot or a .600 round ball i also found out the the lyman 345 grain slug works nicely
Just curious, would these work just as well if I didn't use the lube? I just wanted to be cost-efficient.
+Braden Robertson The lube helps keep fouling soft and reduce leading. Cleaning without lube would be a NIGHTMARE. Especially with the Snider, you want LOTS of lube.
Can't u use 24 gauge brass shot shells?
What size dowel is that?
Yes
How come a conical bullet cannot be used with a plastic hull?
I have the same question.. I suspect the only answer you'll get it to try it and see...
When do you prime the cartridge?
two inches. I use a .590" bullet
@Migs4000 I've seen them, but, at $40, I'll stick to my method.
Why 2 foots of copper pipe ?
why do you use the" drop tube" ?
cannonata1 It settles the powder in the case
@duelist1954 Thank you
weird: thought were the period bullets paper patched that may be the reason for your accuracy problems
The original round was never a flat based .600 bullet, that's a modern reloader method of avoiding the difficulty in making the proper projectile. The Mark 9 snider round went as follows "the final version the Mark IX has a 480 gr bullet it is 1.04 in long ,diameter is 0.573 in ,diameter over lubricant is 0.577 in it has 3 saw tooth cannelures no wooden nose plug and a clay base plug."
The issue for modern shooters is the base plug required to expand the bullet into the rifling. To avoid this part a modern shooter fires a groove diameter .600 round and some fill the base of their .575 minies with lube and size the brass to the original config. I think the .600 method is the easier and the one I intend to employ myself (just bought one so I have been reading on the subject of snider ammo!!) :)
I'd love to know the details on how the clay plug was made/fired..
@FantomShooter to settle the powder i the case
Cool thanks!!!
magtech makes brass 24 gauge shells a box of 25 is fairly cheap (at least cheaper than the real snider brass that you said is $3 a case) a quick google search should turn some up.
@twoeagles23 too small on the od and way too long to work in most sniders the snider workes best with a .595 to .600 bullet theres 2 twist rates for the snider 1 in 78 and 1 in 48 the 1 in 78 works well with a short bullet and the .600 round ball works nicely and the 1 in 48 will work good with longer bullets
the minis being a hollow base makes them long for the weight and thay done work too well
No
Hey Mike, you may or may not have any use for this info. A RUclips channel by the name of britishmuzzleloaders has a great two-part video on reloading the 577 Snider. He shows how he gets great accuracy with brass cases and conical bullets. it is very interesting and thorough. Here's a link to part 1:
m.ruclips.net/video/lNgQi4vEDXM/видео.html
Landon Truman thanks for the info!
I have had better results with .585" minie balls