Just wanted to drop a thanks for posting this. I’m toying around with the idea of using composites to smooth out the bottom of the street car I do track days in and it’s been very helpful to see how you handle large parts. It was especially helpful to see how you mocked up the foam core before glassing it.
Retrograde But RUclips it probably is a long job but it supposedly adds not far off the whole weight of the car in downforce so supposedly it could be worth it
Was awesome to see the pics of the car at Wakefield on Facebook. Try and come down to Victoria for something like Island Magic next year, we've had a team try aero aids in the last couple of years with mixed results, so the interest is there from this side of the border.
I don't know about race cars but in airplanes foam core is coated with a mixture of epoxy and glass bubbles, called slurry. It's seals the pores in the foam and makes for a good seal with the fiberglass. Also, you looked a bit cold doing that fiberglass layup. The job would be made much more easy if you could find a way to heat your workshop. RUclips search Aircraft Composite Construction for a good video.
Interesting. The epoxy and fibreglass seemed to bond much better to the foam when I whet out the foam first, I'm of the opinion that this will be sufficient for this application. I've no doubt it would need to be better for an airplane though. And yes, it was very cold during the early months of fabrication. I was actually doing this in my lounge, not the workshop - my house is not insulated well or heated so there's not much I could do. I did pre-heat each batch of epoxy before use though to improve its flow-ability.
I was under the impression that thos glass bubbles are ment to be used as light weight filler, so you end up with a mix that by volume weighs less and are a bit cheaper aswell, as thos bubbles cost next to nothing, but still have a good bond, depending on application ofcourse
Plenty of lease drives available here in NSW if you want to have a go. The wheel covers didn't make the cut, I only barely had the thing on the car for the club round as it was so something had to go.
Thanks. The undertray was used at the last round of last year, it's one of the most recent videos on this channel. It is also being used this year by the driver who is racing the car. So it's still in use.
use mini rollers when fiberglassing large flat parts, then use a paddle roller to remove air, just did a fiberglass roof and its smooth, i think you could also use more resin.
Now you're going to need more power to overcome the down force, time for aluminum rods, light weight ceramic coated gas ported pistons with low tension stainless steel rings and a crankcase vacuum pump, polish the crank , coated bearing,mill the heads to bump up compression, port and polish the exhaust runner and port the intake runner but don't polish it (the ruff surface helps fuel atomization on carb setups),polish then ceramic coat the combustion chamber , 5 angle valve job, titanium valves and retainers, bigger cam with aggressive ramp rates ,oil scrapers/ windage tray,gun barrel drill the cam to hollow it out and the axles, and a serious race balance job on the rotating assembly. Oh and use ARP studs and bolts. Also talk to Kyle to make sure you intake is in a high presser zone because at high speed ram air effect should help.
Unfortunately pretty much everything you listed is made illegal by our rules I'm afraid. Though there is more to do on the engine than what I've done so far.
I have an early formula vee from the 70s and it has analog dash gauges but I see yours is digital with shift could you explain how you built your dashboard and maybe make some comparisons to analog gauges as far as wiring goes that would be a cool video
I've got an AIM Mychron 3 installed in the car. It's got a number of propriety connectors and sensors for things like oil temperature, pressure, wheel speed, steering wheel position, throttle position, lap beacon and engine RPM. I can't comment on how it compares to an analog cluster, I've never dealt with one. But I can say it's very simple to get hooked up and running and the data logging is absolutely invaluable. This specific model is out of date so wouldn't be possible to purchase now but there are plenty of similar alternatives out there.
Thanks. There have been small scale attempts in the past but this is the most extreme I've seen. I'd expect it's because there is a perception that the benefit would be offset by the drag penalty.
If you're going to mix steel in with the CF sub-structure, you need to make sure to isolate them from eachother to prevent a galvanic reaction from taking place, which would rot the steel out fairly quickly.
Galvanic reactions are a known problem in carbon fiber bike and aircraft components, so maybe you could start with that. I'm sure there are probably vids on YT from that angle. I would tend to think there have probably been isolation-coating processes designed for moulding metallic parts into CF.
I'd try to ground the steel plate to the frame and add zinc as a sacrificial metal (anode), they make zinc based paints as a deterrent or you could go to your local boating store where they should have zinc tabs that attach to boat engines. Not just for the plate, the whole car raced in the rain and could be rusting on the inside of the tube frame. My truck bumper looked brand new until i steeped up on it and my leg went through it, it was completely rusted away with just the paint holding it together even though it looked new. You won't know until you hit a big bump and the frame buckles at 100mph, no fun having your safety cage turn to dust at speed.
KYLE.ENGINEERS That was clearly a prototype, dude. You can also clearly see in the design renderings that its final form will be carbon fiber, ya windbag. If you can't tell that, you have no hope in hell working as an engineer, and you couldn't pay me enough to use anything you design.
Was aluminum an option per the rules? Seems building this out of aluminum with various rolls for rigidity would not only have been much faster but would have would have provided a easy to reproduce result. I feel the same about the body though.A pressing process using steel molds could kick out near perfect pieces in a matter of minutes allowing you to drill them on a template and bolt the thing on when pieces are damaged.
I prefer a composite in this application, even with aluminium it would need to be very thin to be a reasonable weight, and if thin it would be very flexible even if it were strong. The composite is able to be stiffer for the same mass. It's also safer I think, the idea of metal pieces being dislodged and potentially hitting someone is scary, this will not be so deadly if it loses a part.
Renzo Ottevanger I don't think it would affect the car much, a sharkfin, as far as I know, but I'm not an expert, pretty much straightens the air so it makes the rear wing work more efficiently. But since this Formula Vee car has no rear wing I think the sharkfin wouldn't affect it too much
That's actually a good question. Underfloor aero extending beyond the bodywork isn't allowed in most Vee classes. But I just took a look at the Australian Vee rules and they seem much less strict about it.
The Australian Formula Vee rules include very little in the way of restrictions for the category. All the other class 1 cars have defined maximums but the table doesn't even include a Formula Vee column. I expect they never had to deal with it before. The only item I saw which was open for interpretation was along the lines of the wheels must not be enclosed - which could mean just about anything. I had that clarified with the NSW technical delegate for Formula Vee and what I've done was deemed acceptable. We'll see how it all changes now though.
They day the rules are changed to limit your shenanigans, you know you've stepped too far :p I think that would happen if your advantage is too strong, as not many people can access aerodynamics (especially if they don't have to fork out huge amounts of money), and I understand that Vee is about being affordable equal-ish racing. An aero war would put an end of that. In the meantime, I certainly do enjoy your work, keep it up and stay ahead of the curve!
a friend of mine told me to not use Bondo fiberglass resin to strengthen and waterproof paper-backed foamcore because it would "melt" it. Is there any truth to that? I wanted to make an undertray for the rear area of my Honda Civic
Hi, great video. Could you please tell me which foam you have used? Is it polyurethane foam? And what did you to avoid rough surface in fibreglass since you are not using mold?
the cost of having it designed would be prohibitive for most, especially considering that its benefits would be less substantial in his power category. Having a mate design it for him would make it viable, but most would not consider it
The manufacturing part was really helpful! I am a part of a formula student team and your video has helped me a lot. Can you tell me what was the total weight of the undertray?
I was a member of a FS Team, Aero department, for the 16 and 17 season and be assured, the sophistication shown here vs. what you see in Hockenheim or Michigan is in different leagues. I don't want to put you off, and I am aware that not every team has access to 5 Axis milling on that scale or the computing power for hundreds of CFD sims, but with our low speeds and the amount of time we spent in turns (the shown undertray only works with the air coming from directly ahead, now imagine you're constantly running slip angle) an undertray like that won't do you any good. Better to focus on weight and mechanical grip first. A non aero car should definitely shoot for under 145kg.
considered doing a blown diffuser? or will the vw engine not produce enough exhaust for that to matter? edit: looked it up, it seems that there is no real regulation for the exhaust exept for the one general rule: "Exhaust pipes, the orifices of which, when directed horizontally to the rear, must be between 300mm and 600mm above the ground, and may not protrude by more than 250mm beyond the rearmost portion of the car." So it should defenitly be legal :P
Kyle did look at this during his analysis but found that the quantity of exhaust was not enough to make it beneficial. That rule I'd have no concern about getting around by the way, it's conditional on the exhaust being directed horizontally. Tilt it by 5 degrees and it's no longer horizontal, certainly it's a position I'd be prepared to defend.
I started with my mechanical engineering degree, Formula SAE experience from university and five years of professional engineering design experience (in an unrelated field). I had to learn a lot to do this project though.
Do you happen to sell your plans and schematics for your build? I am interested in taking on a garage project for a few years and Formula Vee vintage racing is popular where I am so I would then try and join that group.
I used Solidworks to do the modelling and produce the drawings I used for manufacture. Kyle used different software to do the CFD work, I believe it was OpenFOAM but don't quote me on it.
There have been some that have tried various designs but never to this extent. I think the perception is that with our power and speed it's not worth it. I don't believe this is true.
I just hope they don't ban it Simon. Slowly improve over a season and you may get away with it. My gearbox is mounted high in the frame so I cant even run any rake. Technically getting lift as I have to run so low in the rear to get any camber. Am looking forward to fixing my issues while monitoring your progress & any rule changes. Great work buddy!
Its strange When youtuber that you watch know each other in Real life but I am sure you will get good perferomance with his help Also: can you use ground effect Here?
I used Bote-Cote epoxy. I purchased it from Drive Marine Services here in NSW but you should be able to find re-sellers in other states if you search Boat Craft on google. I chose it because it is specifically formulated to be safe, not causing the allergic reactions that normal epoxy causes. I've been very happy with it, particularly in comparison to the horrible resin I used for the bodywork molds.
o an there's an aircraft epoxy called safety epoxy that's strong as anything else you would find and not supposed to be as bad for you working with it.
It seems engineers always sound so smart and proper and they are don’t get me wrong but then you put tools in their hands and it’s watch out !!🤣 maybe making individual parts and bonding them to make the final product would be better ?
Yeah I probably could have achieved a better quality part if I'd done that with the strakes. The curved surfaces I needed to be flexible though to assemble it, would've been very hard to create them separately then attach them later.
So your car generated upforce before? Also I am not specialist but are you sure this weird nose shape isnt a problem? Mamy people have nose Facing ground And your is closer to missle
+Krzysztof Dolecki that's correct, a small amount of lift previously. Kyle wanted air under the car for the tray which is why it has that shape. For the other cars (and probably mine without the tray) a low nose would be preferable.
Having a low nose can be essential for achieving ground-affect, as well. The nose, and other aero components tend to compress air going under them, and as soon as the air expands to fill the space under the car, it creates a low-pressure zone which literally sucks the car onto the track.
You get a lot of freedom with a high nose though. Undisturbed high volume airflow going directly into the floor makes it really easy to manipulate using the underbody. If I was in ThomsenMotorsport's position I would probably have gone the same way.
wow um did you look into plastics before you started ? you get a roll of housing plastic from building supply cut your cloth put it on big bench on top of the plastic you bought wet it out with epoxy then transfer it to mold put peel ply on top roll or brush or whatever rub with gloves make sure its down smooth your done much easier an better wetout less weight also your mold can be made from foam and housing plaster thats painted its very smooth and um can of pam cooking spray is a wonderful mold release much better than whatever that is you used that stuf looks terrible ,o well good job :) getting it done makes up for any mistakes and we all do me most of all lmao!
@@thomsenmotorsport7201 ah tits. You were literally the only person on RUclips who knew what they doing building this. Good luck with that co2 thing 👍👍👍
ThomsenMotorsport really? Maybe i should take a look at the regulations instead of Just guessing of what i see, now i feel bad. But still, it wouldn't be very useful as the speed wouldn't be high enough to become very effective and the extra drag wouldn't help.
The CFD and lap sim data showed a second improvement at Wakefield Park. I qualified 8/10ths up on my previous best run in clean air with the tray on at the club round so it all seems to be working pretty much as planned. The extra drag does mean overtaking on the straight is much more difficult though and where the benefit is in the corners it's not easy to get by either. I'll show the data in the race video which should come out in a couple of weeks. Take a look at the rules here docs.cams.com.au/Manual/Race/RA14-Formula-Vee-2017-1.pdf and here www.cams.com.au/motor-sport/regulations/cams-manual/general-requirements if you want to learn more. Schedule F in the general regulations is specific to aerofoils and coachwork so is most relevant.
ThomsenMotorsport thanks mate, i'm take a look now :D really apreaciate you helping me. And about the drag i was reffering to a wing, with i supose creats more drag for the same downforce against an undertray.
fibreglass , epoxy and gas bubbles to close the pores , fibreglass roofs , slurry, universal testing machine, spectrophotometer, prisms, pyramids, Poisson's equation, Archimedes principle they are all learnt , your videos and toying race cars are do well appreciated unlike our education which profess us for a minimum requirements for a teaching faculty , even a peer reviewed publication has brought us nowhere .... the government and other state and central pollution conducts all the project reviews at Anna university , center for excellence for environment and funded through minister of environment and forest , prakash javed , but the institutions and schools are closed to teaching faculty whereas the video conferencing of all the programs for graduation and post graduation admissions have crossed the revenue of the railways and the income tax collectors are invariably causing public nuisance to the public who many of whom resigned their jobs including me and always watching via CCTV the poor but not the crooks who cause recession and factory layoff ......... what profit is it to watch someone who has no job ...... and besides you use your mailing address ... why depend on my email...... primary emailer.........jessypanerselvam....
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Great to see the build video out Simon! Can't wait to see the race vid ;)
Just wanted to drop a thanks for posting this. I’m toying around with the idea of using composites to smooth out the bottom of the street car I do track days in and it’s been very helpful to see how you handle large parts. It was especially helpful to see how you mocked up the foam core before glassing it.
Thanks. I guess it just proves it's possible, which is important to know.
YES, finally!
I wached every video of car making so far.... incredible. So much work, knowledge and passion. Fantastic!
It surprises me that the undertray apparently is allowed, but nobody is using it
Retrograde But RUclips it probably is a long job but it supposedly adds not far off the whole weight of the car in downforce so supposedly it could be worth it
Gains are probably not worth the costs.
can't wait to see the car on a race!
The club round video should be out two weeks from now.
Engineering projects are great to watch, I need to look into starting a project myself now that I've finished my degree.
Remarkable. Can’t wait to see if performance has improved significantly on track.
There should be a video out in a couple of weeks on the race I competed in using it a week ago.
Was awesome to see the pics of the car at Wakefield on Facebook. Try and come down to Victoria for something like Island Magic next year, we've had a team try aero aids in the last couple of years with mixed results, so the interest is there from this side of the border.
I don't know about race cars but in airplanes foam core is coated with a mixture of epoxy and glass bubbles, called slurry. It's seals the pores in the foam and makes for a good seal with the fiberglass. Also, you looked a bit cold doing that fiberglass layup. The job would be made much more easy if you could find a way to heat your workshop. RUclips search Aircraft Composite Construction for a good video.
Interesting. The epoxy and fibreglass seemed to bond much better to the foam when I whet out the foam first, I'm of the opinion that this will be sufficient for this application. I've no doubt it would need to be better for an airplane though.
And yes, it was very cold during the early months of fabrication. I was actually doing this in my lounge, not the workshop - my house is not insulated well or heated so there's not much I could do. I did pre-heat each batch of epoxy before use though to improve its flow-ability.
I was under the impression that thos glass bubbles are ment to be used as light weight filler, so you end up with a mix that by volume weighs less and are a bit cheaper aswell, as thos bubbles cost next to nothing, but still have a good bond, depending on application ofcourse
very well executed build and video!
i can't believe what you are doing (did)... crazy impressive!!!
great job...i had my doubts ..but it looked great in the end
nice dude , looks great , i love the process of using the foam as a base , it looks strong
Its very important to get a perfect ratio of epoxy and hardener!
Been waiting for this!
Looks awesome!
It's still missing the front wheel covers tho
also, love the project
would love to be a driver in one of these things
Plenty of lease drives available here in NSW if you want to have a go.
The wheel covers didn't make the cut, I only barely had the thing on the car for the club round as it was so something had to go.
Unfortunately i'm from Europe :P
But thanks for the info
NSW = New South Wales = Australia
Awesome! I love it. Keep it up.
Best Matt
nice work!
These are great!
Hello from Brazil. Congratulation for this beautifull job. Why you don´t use this currently?
Thanks. The undertray was used at the last round of last year, it's one of the most recent videos on this channel. It is also being used this year by the driver who is racing the car. So it's still in use.
use mini rollers when fiberglassing large flat parts, then use a paddle roller to remove air, just did a fiberglass roof and its smooth, i think you could also use more resin.
Now you're going to need more power to overcome the down force, time for aluminum rods, light weight ceramic coated gas ported pistons with low tension stainless steel rings and a crankcase vacuum pump, polish the crank , coated bearing,mill the heads to bump up compression, port and polish the exhaust runner and port the intake runner but don't polish it (the ruff surface helps fuel atomization on carb setups),polish then ceramic coat the combustion chamber , 5 angle valve job, titanium valves and retainers, bigger cam with aggressive ramp rates ,oil scrapers/ windage tray,gun barrel drill the cam to hollow it out and the axles, and a serious race balance job on the rotating assembly. Oh and use ARP studs and bolts. Also talk to Kyle to make sure you intake is in a high presser zone because at high speed ram air effect should help.
Unfortunately pretty much everything you listed is made illegal by our rules I'm afraid. Though there is more to do on the engine than what I've done so far.
I have an early formula vee from the 70s and it has analog dash gauges but I see yours is digital with shift could you explain how you built your dashboard and maybe make some comparisons to analog gauges as far as wiring goes that would be a cool video
I've got an AIM Mychron 3 installed in the car. It's got a number of propriety connectors and sensors for things like oil temperature, pressure, wheel speed, steering wheel position, throttle position, lap beacon and engine RPM. I can't comment on how it compares to an analog cluster, I've never dealt with one. But I can say it's very simple to get hooked up and running and the data logging is absolutely invaluable. This specific model is out of date so wouldn't be possible to purchase now but there are plenty of similar alternatives out there.
ThomsenMotorsport thanks
Awesome work! You should sand the tray and clear coat it, before wrapping it in carbon-fibre vinyl. That would look truly amazing.
Man you're awesome! Thanks so much for these videos! Very exciting :-)
I love this series. I didn't realize formula vee could run aero like that. How come it seems like no other competitors do that?
Thanks. There have been small scale attempts in the past but this is the most extreme I've seen. I'd expect it's because there is a perception that the benefit would be offset by the drag penalty.
Can you tell us how you designed the undergrad in CAD?
If you're going to mix steel in with the CF sub-structure, you need to make sure to isolate them from eachother to prevent a galvanic reaction from taking place, which would rot the steel out fairly quickly.
Hmm, honestly I'd not considered that. Do you have any recommended resources for galvanic corrosion?
Galvanic reactions are a known problem in carbon fiber bike and aircraft components, so maybe you could start with that. I'm sure there are probably vids on YT from that angle. I would tend to think there have probably been isolation-coating processes designed for moulding metallic parts into CF.
I'd try to ground the steel plate to the frame and add zinc as a sacrificial metal (anode), they make zinc based paints as a deterrent or you could go to your local boating store where they should have zinc tabs that attach to boat engines. Not just for the plate, the whole car raced in the rain and could be rusting on the inside of the tube frame. My truck bumper looked brand new until i steeped up on it and my leg went through it, it was completely rusted away with just the paint holding it together even though it looked new. You won't know until you hit a big bump and the frame buckles at 100mph, no fun having your safety cage turn to dust at speed.
It's fibreglass, not carbon, galvanic corrosion won't be a problem.
KYLE.ENGINEERS
That was clearly a prototype, dude. You can also clearly see in the design renderings that its final form will be carbon fiber, ya windbag. If you can't tell that, you have no hope in hell working as an engineer, and you couldn't pay me enough to use anything you design.
Awesome work! How much does the undertray weigh?
Was aluminum an option per the rules? Seems building this out of aluminum with various rolls for rigidity would not only have been much faster but would have would have provided a easy to reproduce result. I feel the same about the body though.A pressing process using steel molds could kick out near perfect pieces in a matter of minutes allowing you to drill them on a template and bolt the thing on when pieces are damaged.
I prefer a composite in this application, even with aluminium it would need to be very thin to be a reasonable weight, and if thin it would be very flexible even if it were strong. The composite is able to be stiffer for the same mass. It's also safer I think, the idea of metal pieces being dislodged and potentially hitting someone is scary, this will not be so deadly if it loses a part.
What kind of foam did you use for this? Im in the process myself and everything I can find is crazy expensive haha.
THANKYOU!!!! FINALLY!!! :)
very talented man waw!
Is it possible to ad a shark fin and would that improve the car?
Renzo Ottevanger I don't think it would affect the car much, a sharkfin, as far as I know, but I'm not an expert, pretty much straightens the air so it makes the rear wing work more efficiently. But since this Formula Vee car has no rear wing I think the sharkfin wouldn't affect it too much
Is that kind of aerodynamic aloud in class VEE?
christoffer1973 he wouldn't do it if it wasn't!
That's actually a good question. Underfloor aero extending beyond the bodywork isn't allowed in most Vee classes. But I just took a look at the Australian Vee rules and they seem much less strict about it.
The Australian Formula Vee rules include very little in the way of restrictions for the category. All the other class 1 cars have defined maximums but the table doesn't even include a Formula Vee column. I expect they never had to deal with it before. The only item I saw which was open for interpretation was along the lines of the wheels must not be enclosed - which could mean just about anything. I had that clarified with the NSW technical delegate for Formula Vee and what I've done was deemed acceptable. We'll see how it all changes now though.
ThomsenMotorsport Take full advantage of it while you can, run away with a few championships and go down as a legend. It'd be wrong not to.
They day the rules are changed to limit your shenanigans, you know you've stepped too far :p
I think that would happen if your advantage is too strong, as not many people can access aerodynamics (especially if they don't have to fork out huge amounts of money), and I understand that Vee is about being affordable equal-ish racing.
An aero war would put an end of that.
In the meantime, I certainly do enjoy your work, keep it up and stay ahead of the curve!
wow lets hope that thing never breakes...
What racegroup allows aerodynamic aids for formula vee?
a friend of mine told me to not use Bondo fiberglass resin to strengthen and waterproof paper-backed foamcore because it would "melt" it. Is there any truth to that? I wanted to make an undertray for the rear area of my Honda Civic
Great car! But how much ground clearance do you have?
Rules specify 35mm but that's only able to be measured static.
Hi, great video. Could you please tell me which foam you have used? Is it polyurethane foam? And what did you to avoid rough surface in fibreglass since you are not using mold?
Yes it was a high density closed cell polyurethane foam. The surface was rough, it's been painted now though so it looks better (but not perfect).
ThomsenMotorsport thank you
That's pretty fucking awesome man, keep up the vids!
Also, how come the undertray is allowed, yet no one else's using it?
the cost of having it designed would be prohibitive for most, especially considering that its benefits would be less substantial in his power category. Having a mate design it for him would make it viable, but most would not consider it
The manufacturing part was really helpful! I am a part of a formula student team and your video has helped me a lot.
Can you tell me what was the total weight of the undertray?
I was a member of a FS Team, Aero department, for the 16 and 17 season and be assured, the sophistication shown here vs. what you see in Hockenheim or Michigan is in different leagues. I don't want to put you off, and I am aware that not every team has access to 5 Axis milling on that scale or the computing power for hundreds of CFD sims, but with our low speeds and the amount of time we spent in turns (the shown undertray only works with the air coming from directly ahead, now imagine you're constantly running slip angle) an undertray like that won't do you any good. Better to focus on weight and mechanical grip first. A non aero car should definitely shoot for under 145kg.
Awewsome! What program did you use to design the car?
Solidworks.
considered doing a blown diffuser? or will the vw engine not produce enough exhaust for that to matter?
edit: looked it up, it seems that there is no real regulation for the exhaust exept for the one general rule:
"Exhaust pipes, the orifices of which, when directed horizontally to the rear, must be between 300mm and
600mm above the ground, and may not protrude by more than 250mm beyond the rearmost portion of the
car."
So it should defenitly be legal :P
Kyle did look at this during his analysis but found that the quantity of exhaust was not enough to make it beneficial. That rule I'd have no concern about getting around by the way, it's conditional on the exhaust being directed horizontally. Tilt it by 5 degrees and it's no longer horizontal, certainly it's a position I'd be prepared to defend.
how to adjust front camber?
Which disciplines you need to know before doing like this project?
I started with my mechanical engineering degree, Formula SAE experience from university and five years of professional engineering design experience (in an unrelated field). I had to learn a lot to do this project though.
Do you happen to sell your plans and schematics for your build? I am interested in taking on a garage project for a few years and Formula Vee vintage racing is popular where I am so I would then try and join that group.
Yes, it's just taking me a long time to prepare them.
What softwsre do you use to design one of these? And does it give you real life measurments?
I used Solidworks to do the modelling and produce the drawings I used for manufacture. Kyle used different software to do the CFD work, I believe it was OpenFOAM but don't quote me on it.
Your car is the only car running an undertray as far as i can see, why is that? Or are there other Cars with an undertray?
There have been some that have tried various designs but never to this extent. I think the perception is that with our power and speed it's not worth it. I don't believe this is true.
I just hope they don't ban it Simon. Slowly improve over a season and you may get away with it. My gearbox is mounted high in the frame so I cant even run any rake. Technically getting lift as I have to run so low in the rear to get any camber. Am looking forward to fixing my issues while monitoring your progress & any rule changes. Great work buddy!
Its strange When youtuber that you watch know each other in Real life but I am sure you will get good perferomance with his help
Also: can you use ground effect Here?
What kind of epoxy do you use, and where did you get it?
I used Bote-Cote epoxy. I purchased it from Drive Marine Services here in NSW but you should be able to find re-sellers in other states if you search Boat Craft on google. I chose it because it is specifically formulated to be safe, not causing the allergic reactions that normal epoxy causes. I've been very happy with it, particularly in comparison to the horrible resin I used for the bodywork molds.
can i know what is the engine you are running
VW Type 1 1600cc engine
o an there's an aircraft epoxy called safety epoxy that's strong as anything else you would find and not supposed to be as bad for you working with it.
Must be similar to this, was very friendly.
Link to the foam core you used?
www.dctech.com.au/dct-xps-block/
filaly!!!
It seems engineers always sound so smart and proper and they are don’t get me wrong but then you put tools in their hands and it’s watch out !!🤣 maybe making individual parts and bonding them to make the final product would be better ?
Yeah I probably could have achieved a better quality part if I'd done that with the strakes. The curved surfaces I needed to be flexible though to assemble it, would've been very hard to create them separately then attach them later.
Amazing build, considering that you didn't even have a lift!
So your car generated upforce before?
Also I am not specialist but are you sure this weird nose shape isnt a problem? Mamy people have nose Facing ground And your is closer to missle
+Krzysztof Dolecki that's correct, a small amount of lift previously. Kyle wanted air under the car for the tray which is why it has that shape. For the other cars (and probably mine without the tray) a low nose would be preferable.
Having a low nose can be essential for achieving ground-affect, as well. The nose, and other aero components tend to compress air going under them, and as soon as the air expands to fill the space under the car, it creates a low-pressure zone which literally sucks the car onto the track.
You get a lot of freedom with a high nose though. Undisturbed high volume airflow going directly into the floor makes it really easy to manipulate using the underbody. If I was in ThomsenMotorsport's position I would probably have gone the same way.
yeah that can lead it to making lift....... or maybe not
wow um did you look into plastics before you started ? you get a roll of housing plastic from building supply cut your cloth put it on big bench on top of the plastic you bought wet it out with epoxy then transfer it to mold put peel ply on top roll or brush or whatever rub with gloves make sure its down smooth your done much easier an better wetout less weight also your mold can be made from foam and housing plaster thats painted its very smooth and um can of pam cooking spray is a wonderful mold release much better than whatever that is you used that stuf looks terrible ,o well good job :) getting it done makes up for any mistakes and we all do me most of all lmao!
You need to work with mighty car mods.
Simon. I think you should give up on fibreglassing.
Agreed.
ThomsenMotorsport make it from paper and wood instead
Ray Filetti yea he should make it from carbon fiber
Good job, its not pretty, but it will work ;-)
if you put the epoxy in a shallow container then you would have alot longer to work with it.
Didn't know that. Is it because it has a larger surface area and so keeps the temperature down?
OOoooooooooo 2sec quicker!
Formula one now?
Far from it, I'm working on developing a CO2 capture technology in Europe.
@@thomsenmotorsport7201 ah tits. You were literally the only person on RUclips who knew what they doing building this. Good luck with that co2 thing 👍👍👍
The nose dose not give down force.
Wow. Epoxy resin, indoors with no respirator. You just took a few years off your life mate.
This epoxy was a safer one, I switched to it for its relative safety and ease of use. Fingers crossed I stay alive.
add a spoiler
what about a BIG MEATY WANG?
Cozea Dragos that's not allowed in formula vee
To be fair it's not explicitly defined as illegal.
ThomsenMotorsport really? Maybe i should take a look at the regulations instead of Just guessing of what i see, now i feel bad.
But still, it wouldn't be very useful as the speed wouldn't be high enough to become very effective and the extra drag wouldn't help.
The CFD and lap sim data showed a second improvement at Wakefield Park. I qualified 8/10ths up on my previous best run in clean air with the tray on at the club round so it all seems to be working pretty much as planned. The extra drag does mean overtaking on the straight is much more difficult though and where the benefit is in the corners it's not easy to get by either. I'll show the data in the race video which should come out in a couple of weeks.
Take a look at the rules here docs.cams.com.au/Manual/Race/RA14-Formula-Vee-2017-1.pdf and here www.cams.com.au/motor-sport/regulations/cams-manual/general-requirements if you want to learn more. Schedule F in the general regulations is specific to aerofoils and coachwork so is most relevant.
ThomsenMotorsport thanks mate, i'm take a look now :D really apreaciate you helping me. And about the drag i was reffering to a wing, with i supose creats more drag for the same downforce against an undertray.
fibreglass , epoxy and gas bubbles to close the pores , fibreglass roofs , slurry, universal testing machine, spectrophotometer, prisms, pyramids, Poisson's equation, Archimedes principle they are all learnt , your videos and toying race cars are do well appreciated unlike our education which profess us for a minimum requirements for a teaching faculty , even a peer reviewed publication has brought us nowhere .... the government and other state and central pollution conducts all the project reviews at Anna university , center for excellence for environment and funded through minister of environment and forest , prakash javed , but the institutions and schools are closed to teaching faculty whereas the video conferencing of all the programs for graduation and post graduation admissions have crossed the revenue of the railways and the income tax collectors are invariably causing public nuisance to the public who many of whom resigned their jobs including me and always watching via CCTV the poor but not the crooks who cause recession and factory layoff ......... what profit is it to watch someone who has no job ...... and besides you use your mailing address ... why depend on my email...... primary emailer.........jessypanerselvam....